How can I optimize JK's 3D accelerated performance
Joe Vitale
Here are my system specs:
ASUS mb w/P133
512k pb cache
64M RAM
Creative 4x CDROM
Creative SB16
3 WD HD, 4G total space
Diamond Stealth Video
Diamond Monster 3D
Here are the 3D accelerated games I've played:
gl-Quake Full Version
gl Hexen II Demo
Turok Demo
Descent II 3Dfx
Tomb Raider 3Dfx
POD Full Version
Moto Racer Demo
Mechwarrior 2
Shadows of the Empire
Jedi Knight
Why, out of all these games, is JK the only one that gives me sluggish
performance on a regular basis? I've been reading the JK posts on
these two groups and hardly anybody is complaining about JK's 3D
accelerated performance so I'm beginning to think I've got something
screwy going on.
If I use the frame rate command from the console, it's in the upper
twenties most of the time when I'm moving around but drops to
completely unacceptable rates when entering new locations and
sometimes when spinning around in place. I actually saw the frame rate
drop to less than 10fps at one time. Horrible.
So what's up? Is it my setup? Am I using the wrong driver? Keep in
mind all these other games work great? Can anybody point me to a good
web page that explains all the different drivers out there for the M3D
and how to tell which ones I have installed and will be used for a
given game's configuration?
And last but not least, can anyone confirm or deny the notion that LEC
is going to produce a native 3Dfx version of JK? If they are, when is
it projected to be available?
Thanks for the help.
Joe
===================================
Joseph Vitale, MCM Productions
http://www.mcmprod.com
Eric Johnson
Well this is probably not it, but it does not hurt to check. Do you have the
enable 3D hardware box checked? Also is it using the Monster or your primary
hardware. Disconnect the pass through cable while running the game to check.
If you lose your picture then for some reason it is not using your monster.
Finally do you have directx 5 installed, not 3.
You probably have already checked this, but hey you never know.
Eric Hite
Joe your not the only one. I also have a Diamond Stealth Video and Monster
3D and this is the first game that has given me problems with 3d
accleration. I can run the game unacclerated at 640x480 without any
problems but as soon as I switch to 3D I start seeing those sluggish pauses,
its really annoying. I have come to believe it is some problem with this
combonation of cards but I am not sure. I am also looking for any advice.
(I have tried everything Lucas arts has suggested and it doesn't help.)
Joe Vitale wrote in message <344ce09a...@news.erols.com>...
Joe Vitale
"Eric Johnson" <et...@cornell.edu> wrote:
Yeah, I have. Thanks anyway. Never hurts to ask the obvious. :)
Joe Vitale
"Eric Hite" <Aes....@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Joe your not the only one. I also have a Diamond Stealth Video and Monster
>3D and this is the first game that has given me problems with 3d
>accleration. I can run the game unacclerated at 640x480 without any
>problems but as soon as I switch to 3D I start seeing those sluggish pauses,
>its really annoying. I have come to believe it is some problem with this
>combonation of cards but I am not sure. I am also looking for any advice.
>(I have tried everything Lucas arts has suggested and it doesn't help.)
Thanks goodness. It's nice to know I'm not alone. If I learn anything
useful for solving this problem, I'll post it here.
Joe
Joe Vitale
"Bryant Luk" <webm...@swgamers.com> wrote:
>Here are the answers to your question:
>
>1. Dunno how you can get a sluggish performance. Make sure you are
>checking the 3D Hardware Acceleration Box. Also, if you want, you can fool
>around with Advanced options by starting up JK with a /displayconfig switch
>which will add an option to your Setup|Display bar on the bottom. Start at
>320x200 display first and move up too.
The 3D Hardware Acceleration Box is _definitely_ checked and I've
played around with all three available screen resolutions. (The fourth
screen resolution of 800x600, as we all know, is not available with
the Monster3D.) The lower resolutions are marginally better but the
performance is still bad.
>2. Optimize your Diamond Monster 3D. If you have done it for Quake and
>such (Zanshin's GL Dojo at PlanetQuake has good info for accelerating all
>high speed cards (http://www.planetquake.com/) ), then you don't need to
>though.
Done and done.
>3. If you got a minimal install, then you're going to be loading a lot from
>your CD-ROM. Do at least a standard install.
I did the full install. It was 150M of HD space using hi-res sounds.
>4. Be sure that you have installed the 3DFX drivers provided with DirectX
>5.0. It can get missed (dunno how but I've heard about it).
Yeah, I had all the latest drivers installed I just wasn't sure if I
had maybe installed something in the wrong order and therefore
inadvertently screwed things up. So I visited the 3dfx news server
last night and read through about a bizillion messages to get the
information I needed to verify my setup. I reinstalled everything in
the excepted order and performance with JK still sucks.
>5. Finally, for your last question, no, a native 3DFX/Glide version is not
>officially in the works. They may or may not in the future, but unless you
>hear it from a good trustworthy source like LEC themselves, consider it to
>be rumorish.
Thanks.
>Also, FYI, I have the following system with a varied performance from 20fps
>to 60fps depending on setting, enemies, etc..:
>
> - Pentium 133mhz/32 MB RAM
> - Sound Blaster 16 Value Card
> - Orchid Righteous 3D
> - 16x CD-ROM
> - 512 KB Cache
> - 4 GB space (100 MB left ;)
>
>I get 26.9 fps or something around there for Quake too BTW.
So it appears we have about the same setup and are really getting the
same frame rates with both JK and Quake. However, don't you feel it is
unacceptable for JK to drop to 20fps during normal gameplay? The game
is great when the frame rate is in the high-twenties, or even higher,
but dropping down to around 20fps (I've seen even lower) is bad news.
I'm going to keep looking for a solution but I'm starting to think
there's not much I can do. I'm beginning to wonder if the problem is
just inherent to the engine design. For instance, why is there always
a noticeable pause when turning a corner into a near area of the map?
Thanks for the reply.
Rungson Samroengraja
Joe, I'm in the same boat:
System:
GW-P5200MMX
512K cache
64 SDRAM
Mits 12X CDROM
Ensoniq SS
3.8G HD
STB Velocity 3D
Orchid R3D
I can't even run 640x480 fullscreen (sub 15 fps) in the first areas.
My GlQuake runs fine as does Q2_test. I've tried reinstalling
DX5, DD3D 2.13, Glide 2.42, but no major improvement. I followed
some advice and stuck my tweek settings into my WIN.INI under
[3DFX] and that actually helped (from <10fps to 15 now).
Going all the way down to 320x240?(16bpp) gets me into the high 20's.
I know that this can't be right. I know my R3D is being used since
I can hear the click and the screen blackens.
Is it possible that my Velocity is somehow taking over without my
knowing it? (Piece o' crap virge) Tonight, I'll disable 3d hardware
and see what kind of framerates I get, if it's faster than what I get
now, it must be the virge <grin>.
Oh the pain.
In article <344ce09a...@news.erols.com>, conf...@mcmprod.com
says...
Darren Stinson
Joe,
I also have a Monster 3d card and am having the same sluggish performance.
I
have a P166 with 32 Mb of RAM. GL Quake and Q2 Test run great on my system,
but JK is too damn slow. Also, what is the command to check the frame
rate?
Please let me know if you find out any answers to the problem.
Thanks
Darren
sti...@bellsouth.net
Joe Vitale <conf...@mcmprod.com> wrote in article
<344ce09a...@news.erols.com>...
>
> Here are my system specs:
>
> ASUS mb w/P133
> 512k pb cache
> 64M RAM
> Creative 4x CDROM
> Creative SB16
> 3 WD HD, 4G total space
> Diamond Stealth Video
> Diamond Monster 3D
>
K. Olsen
> Tell me, is the low-res sound quailty the same as what was included in
the
> Demo? as I have Hi-res sound install, but don't really need to change
it
> because I am running the game in 320x240 due to only having a 2mb
Mystique
Yes, it is the same as far as I know...
-Kris
Rob Breeds
I too have a GW 200MMX with 32MB RAM. I used to have the STB Virge GX with
4MB but soon upgraded to a Matrox Millennium II with 4MB WRAM.
Not only does the Matrox more than double Windows performance in any mode,
it also allows me to play JK at 800x600 16bpp with 3D hardware acceleration
enabled with very smooth gameplay (faster than 8bpp modes). I thought the
Millennium II wouldn't support 3D but it does make a huge difference. I
wonder if I bought a 3DFX add-on card it would make much difference?
You're right. The Virge is crap! Probably to do with the slow video RAM.
Rungson Samroengraja wrote in message ...
>Joe, I'm in the same boat:
>
>System:
>GW-P5200MMX
>512K cache
>64 SDRAM
>Mits 12X CDROM
>Ensoniq SS
>3.8G HD
>STB Velocity 3D
>Orchid R3D
>
>I can't even run 640x480 fullscreen (sub 15 fps) in the first areas.
>My GlQuake runs fine as does Q2_test. I've tried reinstalling
>DX5, DD3D 2.13, Glide 2.42, but no major improvement. I followed
>some advice and stuck my tweek settings into my WIN.INI under
>[3DFX] and that actually helped (from <10fps to 15 now).
>
>Going all the way down to 320x240?(16bpp) gets me into the high 20's.
>I know that this can't be right. I know my R3D is being used since
>I can hear the click and the screen blackens.
>
>Is it possible that my Velocity is somehow taking over without my
>knowing it? (Piece o' crap virge) Tonight, I'll disable 3d hardware
>and see what kind of framerates I get, if it's faster than what I get
>now, it must be the virge <grin>.
>
>Oh the pain.
>
>
<SNIP>
King~James
System:
P225MMX
512k cache
32 SDRAM
Hercules Stingray128/3d
Results: 20+ FPS at 800 X 600 :)))))
Sorry you're having such sloooooww frame rates. It's probable
something other than hardware.
>In article <344ce09a...@news.erols.com>, conf...@mcmprod.com
>says...
>>
Reaper
If DirectX 5 doesn't list the Monster as "certified" check with
Diamond for their lame "workaround" to get by the fact that they make
crappy drivers.
I got rid of my Monster a week after I bought the damn thing. Returned
it for an Orchid Righteous and have had NO trouble with DirectX 5
games since! (cost me a 15% "restock fee", but it was DEFINITELY
worth it!!!)
On 21 Oct 1997 19:47:05 GMT, "Darren Stinson" <sti...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>Joe,
>
>I also have a Monster 3d card and am having the same sluggish performance.
>I
>have a P166 with 32 Mb of RAM. GL Quake and Q2 Test run great on my system,
>
>but JK is too damn slow. Also, what is the command to check the frame
>rate?
>Please let me know if you find out any answers to the problem.
>
>Thanks
>
>Darren
>sti...@bellsouth.net
>
>Joe Vitale <conf...@mcmprod.com> wrote in article
><344ce09a...@news.erols.com>...
>>
>> Here are my system specs:
>>
>> ASUS mb w/P133
>> 512k pb cache
>> 64M RAM
>> Creative 4x CDROM
>> Creative SB16
>> 3 WD HD, 4G total space
>> Diamond Stealth Video
>> Diamond Monster 3D
>>
Timothy M Mc Fadden
Tim McFadden
sky...@gladstone.uoregon.edu
541-346-9446
"It must be a homer, Simpson, 'cause the pitcher just went "d'oh!""
On 22 Oct 1997, keith hammond wrote:
> In article <344df001...@news.erols.com>, Anna...@hotmail.com (Anna
> Tyler) wrote:
>
> > I do not have 3dfx, but I have a Matrox Mystique which performed quite
> > well at 640 x 800, acceleration enabled on the DEMO. However, now
> > that I have the full game, I am getting sluggish performance
> > throughout, at the times that you mention (entering rooms, turning
> > around.) The frame rates dropped considerably at these times. I
> > have noticed that this sluggish performance coincides with cd-rom
> > reads, and if I return to these rooms, the performance is OK. So, I'm
> > thinking its not a video problem, but just the game waiting to recieve
> > the video data from the cd-rom. But then again, I am talking from a
> > thimblefull of knowledge about these kind of issues.
> >
> Hi Anna!
>
> Is your Mystique 2 or 4mb?
>
> I have a 2mb Mystique and I could run it in 640x400, that's if I wanted to
> have the HD accessing every 2 minutes. I'm going to find out from the
> store where I got my Mystique how much memory I can upgrade to.
>
> Oh by the way! is the game on full install?
>
> Keith
>
> I had the Magic: The Gathering game on my brother's computer for a
while, and I found that if I did a custom install, with everything going
to the hard drive, slowdowns and/or crashes did not occur.
Brad Prater
>"Eric Hite" <Aes....@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>Joe your not the only one. I also have a Diamond Stealth Video and Monster
>>3D and this is the first game that has given me problems with 3d
>>accleration. I can run the game unacclerated at 640x480 without any
>>problems but as soon as I switch to 3D I start seeing those sluggish pauses,
>>its really annoying. I have come to believe it is some problem with this
>>combonation of cards but I am not sure. I am also looking for any advice.
>>(I have tried everything Lucas arts has suggested and it doesn't help.)
I have had no problems running on a P-100. 32 megs, Daimond Stealth video and
Monster Card, IDE HDD.
6string
Obee Juan
On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:21:15 -0500, the skies darkened, thunder struck, and
the words of Rungson Samroengraja echoed in our minds:
^Also, I have not been experiencing those slow-downs that the original
^poster of this thread has been experiencing, so maybe it's a function
^of the CPU and BUS as affected by the game engine's sector-based methods.
I'm getting a new motherboard and CPU in on Wednesday (I hope!). The board
is considerably faster than my current one and supports my existing CPU (a
P150 O/D). I'll test it with the old CPU to see if that theory about the
bus holds true. Then... in goes the P200MMX (heheheheh)! One of these 2
better do the trick! Whatever the results, I'll be sure to post them here.
--
John "Obee Juan" Vann
ICQ User # 2875884
Robert T. Cobb
Wow. I feel better about myself. I've got the following hardware:
Pentium 200
512k pipeline burst cache
64 MB SDRAM
2.5 GB HD
8X CD-ROM
ATI XPERT@Play w/8MB SGRAM
I can play the game in 1280x1154 and get around 30 fps. Although it is
easily playable in that resolution, I choose not to. I run it in 640x480
with around 80 fps. This is with bilinear filtering ON, but the way. What
seems to be the problem?
Questions?
Robert T. Cobb
ncc...@homestar.net
King~James wrote in message <344ecc59...@news.flash.net>...
Mike Herauf
Brad Prater wrote:
No problems for me either, P-133, DS64 + M3D.
Mike Herauf
Jon Spewak
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:52:13 GMT, conf...@mcmprod.com (Joe Vitale)
wrote:
>Why, out of all these games, is JK the only one that gives me sluggish
>performance on a regular basis? I've been reading the JK posts on
>these two groups and hardly anybody is complaining about JK's 3D
You may want to check the configuration of your Direct-X 5. I
installed the Direct-X 5 that came with my Canopus Pure3D 3DFX card.
Perhaps your installation of Direct-X 5 isn't working with your
Monster 3D. Did you install the Direct-X 5 that came on the Jedi
Knight CD?
I know Jedi Knight relies heavily on Direct-X 5. I'd check your
Direct-X 5 installation (how, i have no idea), or re-install it.
With a 3DFX card, you should be getting much better performance than
20 FPS. I don't know much about the M3D but I'm getting right around
60 FPS with my Canopus Pure3D, which is a 3DFX card. My pc:
Abit IT5H mb w/K6 200 MMX
80MB EDO RAM
Matrox Millennium 2MB WRAM
Canopus Pure3D 3DFX 6MB
Adaptec 2940 SCSI
At 640x480 16 bits-per-pixel full screen, I usually get 50-60 FPS even
while walking or looking around. In those huge rooms, FPS usually
goes down into the 40s, and I've never seen it drop below 35.
- Jon Spewak
ZDNet
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:52:13 GMT, conf...@mcmprod.com (Joe Vitale)
wrote:
>Here are my system specs:
>
>ASUS mb w/P133
>512k pb cache
>64M RAM
>Creative 4x CDROM
>Creative SB16
>3 WD HD, 4G total space
>Diamond Stealth Video
>Diamond Monster 3D
>