Half Life 2 Beta 1.4 Gigs, Is it real?
Johnny
The question is it real?
Reguardless if it's real or not expect the internet to slow to a crawl as
this file makes it's run for the sun.
JBG
Steve Gordon
"Johnny" <littlena...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:WdMgb.7755$Sg4.3880@edtnps84...
> I've seen this little file floating around the warez sites and growing
fast.
> The question is it real?
Unfortunately for valve (and indirectly for us since the full game might now
not be available for quite some time) the file appears to be real.
So thankyou to those who just couldn't wait... =/
-sTiVen
http://www.planetquake.com/sgquake
Peter Lykkegaard
But I wouldn't use it event if I got paid
Could contain trojans/viruses etc - and I wouldn't trust Steam currently as
well
Or rather you are not able to trust any server you connect to through Steam
And no, I am not wearing a hat, not even made of tinfoil
As a fulltime developer I can't afford having my systems comprimised, it's
all about common sense - unfortunately
- Peter
Skippy
"Johnny" <littlena...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:WdMgb.7755$Sg4.3880@edtnps84...
Frode
Hash: SHA1
Johnny wrote:
> I've seen this little file floating around the warez sites and growing
> fast. The question is it real?
It's real. It's the E3 build. In other words, rather old.
- --
Frode
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Frode
Hash: SHA1
Peter Lykkegaard wrote:
> And no, I am not wearing a hat, not even made of tinfoil
> As a fulltime developer I can't afford having my systems comprimised,
> it's all about common sense - unfortunately
Tripwire or similar products, as well as unplugging the network cable for
the test, would make it safe. The E3 version obviously doesn't require
authentication through Steam or it wouldn't be around the net for everybody
to run. It looks pretty much like the Doom3 alpha though. Relatively empty
maps and only a handful tailored to the E3 show. However, it should do
nicely to get an indication of performance on a given machine.
- --
Frode
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Peter Lykkegaard
"Frode" wrote in a message
> > And no, I am not wearing a hat, not even made of tinfoil
> > As a fulltime developer I can't afford having my systems comprimised,
> > it's all about common sense - unfortunately
>
> Tripwire or similar products, as well as unplugging the network cable for
> the test, would make it safe.
You don't have a clue about what content you have in the file...
The best thing one could do is to have standalone box with a HD which is
reformated afterwards
Personally? - I can wait
- Peter
koorb
It's real, but not the full game.
Frode
Hash: SHA1
Peter Lykkegaard wrote:
>>> As a fulltime developer I can't afford having my systems comprimised,
>>> it's all about common sense - unfortunately
>> Tripwire or similar products, as well as unplugging the network cable
>> for the test, would make it safe.
> You don't have a clue about what content you have in the file...
Exactly why I mentioned tripwire and unplugging it from the net. I took it
for granted you weren't talking about a box with vital files on it not
backed up elsewhere, and thus if it did go berserk and delete everything it
wouldn't affect anything but that box. The chances of it doing so are
extremely slim compared to inserting trojans and any IDS updated just prior
to the test would alert you to that.
> Personally? - I can wait
I ain't forcing you to try it. Just pointing out it can be done in relative
safety without going to extremes.
- --
Frode
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Peter Lykkegaard
"Frode" wrote in a message
>
>
> > Personally? - I can wait
>
> I ain't forcing you to try it.
I know
> Just pointing out it can be done in relative
> safety without going to extremes.
>
I don't know...
I'd consider it rather extreme to go ut and buy a new HD, install OS etc
just to try out an rather incomplete version of HL2
I have better things to do :-)
- Peter
Ben Cottrell
full of viruses/trojans/porn/spyware/etc)... either way, the best thing
to do is send the information to help...@valvesoftware.com
--
Ben Cottrell AKA Bench
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
Nintendo, Inc, 1989
Citl
object to your obvious lack of knowledge when you state that "equally likely
it's full of viruses/trojan/porn/spyware". This simply isn't true and what
you are doing is simple fear mongering. There is no evidence in this case or
any other case in the past that leaked beta, stolen code etc were ever
infected with anything.
"Ben Cottrell" <be...@bench333.screaming.net> wrote in message
news:3F8409D9...@bench333.screaming.net...
Mike Kohary
> <littlena...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >I've seen this little file floating around the warez sites and growing
fast.
> >The question is it real?
So, which warez sites? ;)
Mike
Ben Cottrell
>
> I am not condoning downloading of a beta of a stolen program, but I must
> object to your obvious lack of knowledge when you state that "equally likely
> it's full of viruses/trojan/porn/spyware". This simply isn't true and what
> you are doing is simple fear mongering. There is no evidence in this case or
> any other case in the past that leaked beta, stolen code etc were ever
> infected with anything.
No, i am simply reiterating what has been said on Planethalflife for the
past week, who have it written on their website that their *are* files
out there which claim to be the HL2 sourcecode, but are in fact fakes,
containing trojans, viruses and porn. Aside from that, you shouldn't
be downloading the HL2 source even if you do find one that isn't fake.
Rene Lamontagne
"Citl" <ci...@serp.com> wrote in message
news:R7Ugb.51518$ko%.9383@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
IT IS A STOLEN PROGRAM !!!!! I wouldn't touch it even if it was given to me
Boxed, and on a Silver platter.
It is NOT our property,
I can wait till the LEGAL HL2 comes out, Then I will gladly buy it. I do
not use illegal or pirated software.
Those are MY views and Morals.
Valve spent many thousands of man hours creating this program, All their
people deserve to be paid for their work, I will not help ROB them of their
Just rewards.
I hope they catch the Thieves and prosecute them to the full extent of the
law.
--
Regards, Rene Lamontagne
8-Roll
> Citl wrote:
> >
> > I am not condoning downloading of a beta of a stolen program, but I must
> > object to your obvious lack of knowledge when you state that "equally
likely
> > it's full of viruses/trojan/porn/spyware". This simply isn't true and
what
> > you are doing is simple fear mongering. There is no evidence in this
case or
> > any other case in the past that leaked beta, stolen code etc were ever
> > infected with anything.
>
> No, i am simply reiterating what has been said on Planethalflife for the
> past week, who have it written on their website that their *are* files
> out there which claim to be the HL2 sourcecode, but are in fact fakes,
> containing trojans, viruses and porn. Aside from that, you shouldn't
> be downloading the HL2 source even if you do find one that isn't fake.
Yes Ben, of course. Just like you should never lie, speed, steal paper-clips
from the office, eat too much, drink too much, offend other people
needlessly with crude language, gossip etc. etc.
Praise be for the likes of Perfect Ben !!!! (and Saintly Stewy too...)
8-Roll
news:7tUgb.47631$6C4.34233@pd7tw1no...
> IT IS A STOLEN PROGRAM !!!!! I wouldn't touch it even if it was given to
me
> Boxed, and on a Silver platter.
> It is NOT our property,
> I can wait till the LEGAL HL2 comes out, Then I will gladly buy it. I do
> not use illegal or pirated software.
> Those are MY views and Morals.
> Valve spent many thousands of man hours creating this program, All their
> people deserve to be paid for their work, I will not help ROB them of
their
> Just rewards.
> I hope they catch the Thieves and prosecute them to the full extent of the
> law.
> --
> Regards, Rene Lamontagne
>
> rla...@shaw.ca
And I hope you get caught speeding and get life in prison for it. Meantime,
thanks for the sermon...
help_desk
This user has been reported to the FBI.
help_desk
"8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
news:6ab1e46a69877ba9...@news.teranews.com...
This user has been reported to the FBI.
Civilian_Target
<be...@bench333.screaming.net> wrote:
>Citl wrote:
>>
>> I am not condoning downloading of a beta of a stolen program, but I must
>> object to your obvious lack of knowledge when you state that "equally likely
>> it's full of viruses/trojan/porn/spyware". This simply isn't true and what
>> you are doing is simple fear mongering. There is no evidence in this case or
>> any other case in the past that leaked beta, stolen code etc were ever
>> infected with anything.
>
>No, i am simply reiterating what has been said on Planethalflife for the
>past week, who have it written on their website that their *are* files
>out there which claim to be the HL2 sourcecode, but are in fact fakes,
>containing trojans, viruses and porn. Aside from that, you shouldn't
>be downloading the HL2 source even if you do find one that isn't fake.
Yes. It's illegal. Like downloading music or videos you don't already
own. And none of us do that.
Civilian_Target
"Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life" - Northern-Irish proverb
8-Roll
news:bm1agj$h3vhq$1...@ID-82663.news.uni-berlin.de...
This user has been reported to his mother. See him run!
8-Roll
This user has been reported to Richard Branson. He might GAF.
Farrell
Meantime,
> thanks for the sermon...
in what country do you get life imprisonment for going above the speed
limit?
There's quite a difference between going a little fast in your car, and
obtaining Valve's source code for HL2.
And, to continue - from your other post, to Bench:
----------------------------------------------------------
Just like you should never lie, speed, steal paper-clips
from the office, eat too much, drink too much, offend other people
needlessly with crude language, gossip etc. etc"
----------------------------------------------------------
Damn, you must have a refined moral code.
So, in your eyes, someone who lies about something is doing something just
as wrong as stealing a group of people's hard work of the last 5 years?
Sure, many people have a fucked up moral code (mine included), but your's
seems to take the piss.
I wonder if you live your life "as the bible tells me to"?
--
Capt
http://www.tfhl.net
"That's it - screw CNN, from now on - I'm going to rely on Porn sites,
for news...." -=[Clawz]=- in alt.games.half-life
8-Roll
news:bm1e1s$hm9aq$1...@ID-47035.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
> news:e3f208c822f1e8d6...@news.teranews.com...
> > "Rene Lamontagne" <rla...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > And I hope you get caught speeding and get life in prison for it.
> Meantime,
> > thanks for the sermon...
>
> in what country do you get life imprisonment for going above the speed
> limit?
>
> There's quite a difference between going a little fast in your car, and
> obtaining Valve's source code for HL2.
>
> And, to continue - from your other post, to Bench:
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Just like you should never lie, speed, steal paper-clips
> from the office, eat too much, drink too much, offend other people
> needlessly with crude language, gossip etc. etc"
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Damn, you must have a refined moral code.
> So, in your eyes, someone who lies about something is doing something just
> as wrong as stealing a group of people's hard work of the last 5 years?
>
> Sure, many people have a fucked up moral code (mine included), but your's
> seems to take the piss.
> I wonder if you live your life "as the bible tells me to"?
Bottom line is, you care about Valve - I care about road-safety. ;o)
David Firewater
"8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote
> "Rene Lamontagne" <rla...@shaw.ca> wrote
> And I hope you get caught speeding and get life in prison for it.
Meantime,
> thanks for the sermon...
I got caught speeding last week, but I'm only looking at 3 points and a £60
fine. Life in prison? LOL. Here, have 2 "I'm a f***ing muppet" points.
;)
--
David
davidfirewater(a)hotmail.com
Owner of:
10 "Movie Quote Getter" points.
1 "This isn't really my point, I'm just looking after it for the missus
cos she knows her movie quotes better than me" point.
1 "I'm a tone-deaf dog lover" point.
175 "I didn't have enough points" points.
3 "Spyder's non-1337 AGHL Quote Points".
5 'My POST button sticks occasionally - have to give it a good kick to get a
message out' points
I give out:
"I'm a f***ing muppet" points.
"I know a quality tune when it smacks me in the gob" points.
8-Roll
news:5lWgb.21059$4D.10...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
>
> "8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote
> > "Rene Lamontagne" <rla...@shaw.ca> wrote
> > And I hope you get caught speeding and get life in prison for it.
> Meantime,
> > thanks for the sermon...
>
> I got caught speeding last week, but I'm only looking at 3 points and a
£60
> fine. Life in prison? LOL. Here, have 2 "I'm a f***ing muppet" points.
> ;)
> --
> David
> davidfirewater(a)hotmail.com
Hahahaha - well, we all know who deserves the muppet points. You not
understand irony? Anyway, I'm sure you'll never speed again, because that's
against the law, and just as wrong as stealing code, isn't it now?
8-Roll
> obtaining Valve's source code for HL2.
Indeed there is. Speeding endangers peoples lives. Stealing source code
endangers their income.
Man, you're all moral cripples.
Farrell
It's how you are able to handle those situations that counts.
But still, why argue with someone as perfect as you - we could never even
hope to compete...
I'm guessing the 8 in your name refers to your age, though - come back when
you've had enough life experience to handle these circumstances
Rene Lamontagne
"8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
news:e3f208c822f1e8d6...@news.teranews.com...
Nope, won't get caugt speeding Either, Because I don't.
No Sermon, Just my views and moral state.
JBG
You americans are getting a little paranoid about everything now a days, so
now even ASKING a question if it's real will get you reported?
Hey Help_Desk hows that Nazi youth group of your's working out? Or you going
to report me to the FBI for that too?
I guess what can you expect for a AOL.COM?
JBG
"help_desk" <help...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bm1agj$h3vhq$1...@ID-82663.news.uni-berlin.de...
Frode
Hash: SHA1
Civilian_Target wrote:
>> No, i am simply reiterating what has been said on Planethalflife for the
>> past week, who have it written on their website that their *are* files
>> out there which claim to be the HL2 sourcecode, but are in fact fakes,
>> containing trojans, viruses and porn. Aside from that, you shouldn't
>> be downloading the HL2 source even if you do find one that isn't fake.
> Yes. It's illegal. Like downloading music or videos you don't already
> own.
Don't assume all countries of the world share your local laws.
- --
Frode
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Frode
Hash: SHA1
Peter Lykkegaard wrote:
>> Just pointing out it can be done in relative
>> safety without going to extremes.
> I don't know...
> I'd consider it rather extreme to go ut and buy a new HD, install OS etc
> just to try out an rather incomplete version of HL2
> I have better things to do :-)
You said "my systems" IIRC. I assumed that meant "more than one computer".
My bad if you meant something else. Most people geeky enough to consider
testing the beta probably have an old computer or two laying about as well
as a DX6 graphics card, was my assumption. Of course, by now so many have
tested it it can be considered pretty safe as long as you get it from a
decent source (ie, not kazaa or the likes), since noone has reported
anything iffy.
Anyways, personally it whet my appetite for the game even more. Just
throwing crates around with the gravity gun is great fun. What's available
in this beta isn't a whole lot so it won't ruin the full game at all imo.
It also runs slick on my box so I can finally sleep comfortably knowing I
have no immediate need to upgrade :)
- --
Frode
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Citl
"Frode" <ne...@mascot.REMOVETOREPLY.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:3f84743b$1...@news.broadpark.no...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Civilian_Target wrote:
> >> No, i am simply reiterating what has been said on Planethalflife for
the
> >> past week, who have it written on their website that their *are* files
> >> out there which claim to be the HL2 sourcecode, but are in fact fakes,
> >> containing trojans, viruses and porn. Aside from that, you shouldn't
> >> be downloading the HL2 source even if you do find one that isn't fake.
> > Yes. It's illegal. Like downloading music or videos you don't already
> > own.
>
> Don't assume all countries of the world share your local laws.
>
>
> - --
Well, said, ILLEGAL is in the eye of the local country.
Peter Lykkegaard
>
> You said "my systems" IIRC. I assumed that meant "more than one
> computer".
I did - all three at home occupied :-)
> My bad if you meant something else. Most people geeky
> enough to consider testing the beta probably have an old computer or
> two laying about as well as a DX6 graphics card, was my assumption.
And you're are quite right
I am running Virtual PC on my desktop at work for the same reasons
> Anyways, personally it whet my appetite for the game even more.
Jep that's what I am afraid of ;-)
Well ok, I am very, very busy at work currently very little time for
testing/palying/gaming
- Peter
Frode
Hash: SHA1
Peter Lykkegaard wrote:
>> My bad if you meant something else. Most people geeky
>> enough to consider testing the beta probably have an old computer or
>> two laying about as well as a DX6 graphics card, was my assumption.
>
> And you're are quite right
> I am running Virtual PC on my desktop at work for the same reasons
The previously Connectix now Microsoft thingie? Any idea/opinion on how it
compares to vmware?
- --
Frode
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John Twernbold
> But still, why argue with someone as perfect as you - we could never
> even hope to compete...
I'm not sure if you missed it, but 8-Roll was being sarcastic when he
said,
"Yes Ben, of course. Just like you should never lie, speed, steal
paper-clips from the office, eat too much, drink too much, offend
other people needlessly with crude language, gossip etc. etc.
Praise be for the likes of Perfect Ben !!!! (and Saintly Stewy
too...)"
That's why he made the subsequent sarcastic comments, presumably.
--
Bold
aka John Twernbold
jtwernbold (at) yahoo.com
John Twernbold
> You americans are getting a little paranoid about everything now a
> days, so now even ASKING a question if it's real will get you
> reported?
>
> Hey Help_Desk hows that Nazi youth group of your's working out? Or you
> going to report me to the FBI for that too?
Don't worry, we won't make silly generalizations about Canadians not
understanding humour just because you completely missed the joke and
instead took it seriously...
Krimzun
> "8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
> news:fa3cdc07b80231e7...@news.teranews.com...
> > "Farrell" <SPAM...@tfhl.net> wrote in message
> > news:bm1e1s$hm9aq$1...@ID-47035.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > There's quite a difference between going a little fast in your car,
and
> > > obtaining Valve's source code for HL2.
> >
> > Indeed there is. Speeding endangers peoples lives. Stealing source code
> > endangers their income.
> >
> slight newsflash - getting IN a car endangers lives.
Bullshit of course.
> It's how you are able to handle those situations that counts.
Wrong. Grow up.
> But still, why argue with someone as perfect as you - we could never even
> hope to compete...
Naturally. You have no testicles.
> I'm guessing the 8 in your name refers to your age, though - come back
when
> you've had enough life experience to handle these circumstances
Wrong. I'm 55. I have the experiences. You may now kiss my arse and
leave....
Farrell
news:bm2796$msr$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "Farrell" <SPAM...@tfhl.net> wrote in message
> news:bm1gud$hiefa$1...@ID-47035.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Bullshit of course.
>
around them.
The endangered life may be your own.
Basically, living endangers life.
> > It's how you are able to handle those situations that counts.
>
> Wrong. Grow up.
>
uh-huh...
> > But still, why argue with someone as perfect as you - we could never
even
> > hope to compete...
>
> Naturally. You have no testicles.
>
damn, can't argue with that logic...
> > I'm guessing the 8 in your name refers to your age, though - come back
> when
> > you've had enough life experience to handle these circumstances
>
> Wrong. I'm 55. I have the experiences. You may now kiss my arse and
> leave....
>
um, and you are?
I'm guessing you're a bad attempt at a troll, so this shall be my last word
to you, unless you have something constructive to add?
Civilian_Target
<ne...@mascot.REMOVETOREPLY.dyndns.org> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Civilian_Target wrote:
>>> No, i am simply reiterating what has been said on Planethalflife for the
>>> past week, who have it written on their website that their *are* files
>>> out there which claim to be the HL2 sourcecode, but are in fact fakes,
>>> containing trojans, viruses and porn. Aside from that, you shouldn't
>>> be downloading the HL2 source even if you do find one that isn't fake.
>> Yes. It's illegal. Like downloading music or videos you don't already
>> own.
>
>Don't assume all countries of the world share your local laws.
No. But I'd bet now that its illegal in Norway.
Civilian_Target
In the ongoing battle between objects made of aluminum going hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero miles per hour, the ground has yet to lose. - The alt.games.battlefield1942 flight manual
dumb ass
"John Twernbold" <jtwer...@remove-this.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns940EB7E335...@24.94.170.88...
downloading stolen source code is relatively harmless
whilst speeding is potentially homicidal
especially when the cars in the hands of over arrogant prepubescent tossers
who think they know how to handle the situation
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date: 06/10/2003
Peter Lykkegaard
"Frode" wrote in a message
>
> Peter Lykkegaard wrote:
> >> My bad if you meant something else. Most people geeky
> >> enough to consider testing the beta probably have an old computer or
> >> two laying about as well as a DX6 graphics card, was my assumption.
> >
> > And you're are quite right
> > I am running Virtual PC on my desktop at work for the same reasons
>
> The previously Connectix now Microsoft thingie? Any idea/opinion on how it
> compares to vmware?
>
Currently it looks like you are not able to define SCISI drives, making it
rather impossible to do cluster setups - also the network options is rather
limited (or looks like)
If you are interested I could do a small report as soon as I have found out
some more
Currently it looks like I have to use VMware though - to bad when you have
MSDN Universal :-|
But I'll investigate some more before skipping it
It actually looks and feels very nice og very easy to use
If you don't need the cluster option and the closed network thingie, go for
it :-)
- Peter
BS82
"Johnny" <littlena...@yahoo.ca> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:WdMgb.7755$Sg4.3880@edtnps84...
> I've seen this little file floating around the warez sites and growing
fast.
> The question is it real?
yes! 1.36G
help_desk
> Thats funny,
>
> You americans are getting a little paranoid about everything now a days,
so
> now even ASKING a question if it's real will get you reported?
>
> Hey Help_Desk hows that Nazi youth group of your's working out? Or you
going
> to report me to the FBI for that too?
>
> I guess what can you expect for a AOL.COM?
>
> JBG
The fish, they be a-bitin' today.
Frode
Hash: SHA1
Civilian_Target wrote:
>>> Yes. It's illegal. Like downloading music or videos you don't already
>>> own.
>> Don't assume all countries of the world share your local laws.
> No. But I'd bet now that its illegal in Norway.
How much would you be willing to bet? I could use some easy cash.
- --
Frode
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Frode
Hash: SHA1
Peter Lykkegaard wrote:
> rather impossible to do cluster setups - also the network options is
> rather limited (or looks like)
> If you are interested I could do a small report as soon as I have found
> out some more
No need to spend the time on my account. I've only used vmware a bit to do
test installs etc in and it has performed admirably. Was just wondering if
there were major differences in hardware supported etc to make either
significantly preferable to the other.
> It actually looks and feels very nice og very easy to use
> If you don't need the cluster option and the closed network thingie, go
> for it :-)
Never hurts to grab the 14 day trial I guess. But then again based on what
you just said it doesn't seem to be much point either if vmware does the
job..?
- --
Frode
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Peter Lykkegaard
"Frode" wrote in a message
> Never hurts to grab the 14 day trial I guess. But then again based on what
> you just said it doesn't seem to be much point either if vmware does the
> job..?
>
If you have vmware stick to vmware - you have better options in the long run
(based on my current knowledge :-)
- Peter
Civilian_Target
<ne...@mascot.REMOVETOREPLY.dyndns.org> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Civilian_Target wrote:
>>>> Yes. It's illegal. Like downloading music or videos you don't already
>>>> own.
>>> Don't assume all countries of the world share your local laws.
>> No. But I'd bet now that its illegal in Norway.
>
>How much would you be willing to bet? I could use some easy cash.
Yes. And I'm 100% sure that you'd pay me when you lose too....
It's not illegal in Ireland, as long as you claim that the person on
Kazaa you got it from is your friend. But AFAIK, Ireland and Portugal
are the only exceptions in the EU. And they're also the ones with the
lowest broadband proliferation, bar Greece.
Civilian_Target
"Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life" - Northern-Irish proverb
8-Roll
> I'm guessing you're a bad attempt at a troll, so this shall be my last
word
> to you, unless you have something constructive to add?
Farrell, Farrell, Farrell. Read 8-Roll out loud and see what it sounds like.
8-Roll
news:bm2g96$ia078$1...@ID-167543.news.uni-berlin.de...
> downloading stolen source code is relatively harmless
> whilst speeding is potentially homicidal
> especially when the cars in the hands of over arrogant prepubescent
tossers
> who think they know how to handle the situation
Ahhhh, so there is ONE person in here who understands the distinction!
8-Roll
> Nope, won't get caugt speeding Either, Because I don't.
> No Sermon, Just my views and moral state.
> --
> Regards, Rene Lamontagne
Oooh, you must be so proud.
Anyway, keep your views and "moral state" to yourself. No one likes a smart
arse, and nobody asked for your opinion.
Ben Cottrell
> Farrell, Farrell, Farrell. Read 8-Roll out loud and see what it sounds like.
Like he said.. a poor attempt.
--
Ben Cottrell AKA Bench
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
Nintendo, Inc, 1989
Farrell
"8 year old"
Frode
Hash: SHA1
Civilian_Target wrote:
>>> No. But I'd bet now that its illegal in Norway.
>> How much would you be willing to bet? I could use some easy cash.
> Yes. And I'm 100% sure that you'd pay me when you lose too....
If I lost a bet, of course I'd honor it. However, you could take me to
trial and I would be aquitted, which would win me the bet. The legality of
downloading copyrighted material has been covered in case law as late as
this very year and has upheld the interpretation that aquiring copyrighted
material is not illegal, while distributing it is.
> It's not illegal in Ireland, as long as you claim that the person on
> Kazaa you got it from is your friend. But AFAIK, Ireland and Portugal
> are the only exceptions in the EU.
Norway is not part of the EU.
- --
Frode
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8-Roll
news:3F8566CE...@bench333.screaming.net...
> 8-Roll wrote:
>
> > Farrell, Farrell, Farrell. Read 8-Roll out loud and see what it sounds
like.
>
> Like he said.. a poor attempt.
Oh Ben, you cut me to the quick.
8-Roll
> "8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
> news:f670e16f101d41ef...@news.teranews.com...
> > "Farrell" <SPAM...@tfhl.net> wrote in message
> > news:bm28e1$i5ju6$1...@ID-47035.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > I'm guessing you're a bad attempt at a troll, so this shall be my last
> > word
> > > to you, unless you have something constructive to add?
> >
> > Farrell, Farrell, Farrell. Read 8-Roll out loud and see what it sounds
> like.
> >
> with my accent?
> "8 year old"
Man, you are THAT funny. Thanks for brightening up my day.
Jethro[AGHL]
I don't get it...
but at least your spelt humour correctly. :-)
--
Jethro[AGHL] aka Phat_Pinger
Phat Clan: http://phats.clanpages.com
Reply Email: jeff (at) tibben (dot) ca
Ben Cottrell
>
> John Twernbold wrote:
>
> > Don't worry, we won't make silly generalizations about Canadians not
> > understanding humour just because you completely missed the joke and
> > instead took it seriously...
>
> but at least your spelt humour correctly. :-)
I believe our brain-implant experiment has been a complete success, Dr
Jethro.
Rene Lamontagne
"8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
news:88506c53f637526a...@news.teranews.com...
YOU, asked for my opinion when you wrote" I hope you get caught speeding and
get life in prison for it" now you have it, Asshole
Furthermore I will express my views on Usenet whenever I fucking feel like
it And no Numbnut like you will tell me not to.
--
Regards, Rene Lamontagne
Farrell
> "Farrell" <SPAM...@tfhl.net> wrote in message
> news:bm3otc$ikjv4$1...@ID-47035.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > "8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
> > news:f670e16f101d41ef...@news.teranews.com...
> > like.
> > >
> > with my accent?
> > "8 year old"
>
> Man, you are THAT funny. Thanks for brightening up my day.
>
you've not heard my accent...
Neil Jones
<rla...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Furthermore I will express my views on Usenet whenever I fucking feel like
> it And no Numbnut like you will tell me not to.
Well, strictly speaking, any numbnut like him can *tell* you not to;
the fun part comes in having a laugh at the numbnut's expense anyway...
:)
___
Neil
AKA HighVis
"Looooooooooooooozzzzzzaaaaaaaaaasssssssssss
Bye, and Plonk, Plonk, Plonk...."
- the amazing Chris Jacobs, fleetingly of AGHL
Ben Cottrell
> > > > Farrell, Farrell, Farrell. Read 8-Roll out loud and see what it sounds
> > > like.
> > > >
> > > with my accent?
> > > "8 year old"
> >
> > Man, you are THAT funny. Thanks for brightening up my day.
> >
> who said I was being funny?
> you've not heard my accent...
But i have, and i can assure you, he wasn't being funny! ;)
WildStyle24_7
help...@aol.com says...
>
> The fish, they be a-bitin' today.
>
Civilian_Target
<ne...@mascot.REMOVETOREPLY.dyndns.org> wrote:
>> It's not illegal in Ireland, as long as you claim that the person on
>> Kazaa you got it from is your friend. But AFAIK, Ireland and Portugal
>> are the only exceptions in the EU.
>
>Norway is not part of the EU.
A valid point. Well made. Like the EU would allow stupid things like
whaling, or stockpiling vast amounts of oil money :)
Rene Lamontagne
"Neil Jones" <ne...@designumbrella.com> wrote in message
news:091020032237450297%ne...@designumbrella.com...
Couple of good points there Neil :-))
James A. Cooley
"help_desk" <help...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bm1aqi$hq79m$1...@ID-82663.news.uni-berlin.de...> news:6ab1e46a69877ba9...@news.teranews.com...> > news:3F841270...@bench333.screaming.net...
> > > Citl wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am not condoning downloading of a beta of a stolen program, but I
> must
> > > > object to your obvious lack of knowledge when you state that
"equally
> > likely
> > > > it's full of viruses/trojan/porn/spyware". This simply isn't true
and
> > what
> > > > you are doing is simple fear mongering. There is no evidence in this
> > case or
> > > > any other case in the past that leaked beta, stolen code etc were
ever
> > > > infected with anything.
> > >
> > > No, i am simply reiterating what has been said on Planethalflife for
the
> > > past week, who have it written on their website that their *are* files
> > > out there which claim to be the HL2 sourcecode, but are in fact fakes,
> > > containing trojans, viruses and porn. Aside from that, you shouldn't
> > > be downloading the HL2 source even if you do find one that isn't fake.
> >
> > Yes Ben, of course. Just like you should never lie, speed, steal
> paper-clips
> > from the office, eat too much, drink too much, offend other people
> > needlessly with crude language, gossip etc. etc.
> >
> > Praise be for the likes of Perfect Ben !!!! (and Saintly Stewy too...)
>
> This user has been reported to the FBI.
This was the theft of something worth perhaps millions of dollars. I hope
those that did it do some hard time for their little prank.
James A. Cooley
> > IT IS A STOLEN PROGRAM !!!!! I wouldn't touch it even if it was given to
> me
> > Boxed, and on a Silver platter.
> > It is NOT our property,
> > I can wait till the LEGAL HL2 comes out, Then I will gladly buy it. I
do
> > not use illegal or pirated software.
> > Those are MY views and Morals.
> > Valve spent many thousands of man hours creating this program, All their
> > people deserve to be paid for their work, I will not help ROB them of
> their
> > Just rewards.
> > I hope they catch the Thieves and prosecute them to the full extent of
the
> > law.> And I hope you get caught speeding and get life in prison for it.
Meantime,
> thanks for the sermon...
This was an act of grand theft of intellectual property worth perhaps in the
millions. To liken it to speeding is either an act of intellectual
dishonesty or an insight into an amoral personality.
What this creep did was STEALING. It was WRONG. Real people lost real money
due to this act of THEFT.
Hey, maybe if somebody hacks your bank and posts your checking account info
on the Internet (including account logins and passwords) for others to
use -- you FINALLY might get it.
>
>
Frode
Hash: SHA1
Civilian_Target wrote:
>>> It's not illegal in Ireland, as long as you claim that the person on
>>> Kazaa you got it from is your friend. But AFAIK, Ireland and Portugal
>>> are the only exceptions in the EU.
>> Norway is not part of the EU.
> A valid point. Well made. Like the EU would allow stupid things like
> whaling, or stockpiling vast amounts of oil money :)
Hey now, don't get me started on whaling. :P That's the topic of the first
post I made according to google. Although it was in the middle of a
discussion so google for some reason hasn't got all of it.
- --
Frode
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Jethro[AGHL]
>
> "8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
> news:627a1079b83df40f...@news.teranews.com...
> > "Farrell" <SPAM...@tfhl.net> wrote in message
> > news:bm3otc$ikjv4$1...@ID-47035.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > "8-Roll" <ju...@guess.com> wrote in message
> > > news:f670e16f101d41ef...@news.teranews.com...
> > > > Farrell, Farrell, Farrell. Read 8-Roll out loud and see what it sounds
> > > like.
> > > >
> > > with my accent?
> > > "8 year old"
> >
> > Man, you are THAT funny. Thanks for brightening up my day.
> >
> who said I was being funny?
> you've not heard my accent...
>
I have. It's like your speaking a whole other language. :-)
Jethro[AGHL]
You do realize your agreeing with someone who's nickname is 'dumb ass'.
Small world.
Jethro[AGHL]
>
> "Jethro[AGHL]" wrote:
> >
> > John Twernbold wrote:
> >
> > > Don't worry, we won't make silly generalizations about Canadians not
> > > understanding humour just because you completely missed the joke and
> > > instead took it seriously...
> >
> > I don't get it...
> > but at least your spelt humour correctly. :-)
>
> I believe our brain-implant experiment has been a complete success, Dr
> Jethro.
>
What shall we do with the little one that we took out?
Too light for a doorstop. Paper weight?
JBG
Sorry, I was in a bad mood that day, After I read it again, and read some of
your other posts, I figured it out.
Sorry again for jumping the gun.
JBG
"John Twernbold" <jtwer...@remove-this.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns940EB7E335...@24.94.170.88...
> JBG wrote:
> > You americans are getting a little paranoid about everything now a
> > days, so now even ASKING a question if it's real will get you
> > reported?
> >
> > Hey Help_Desk hows that Nazi youth group of your's working out? Or you
> > going to report me to the FBI for that too?
>
> Don't worry, we won't make silly generalizations about Canadians not
> understanding humour just because you completely missed the joke and
> instead took it seriously...
>
>
John Twernbold
>> I believe our brain-implant experiment has been a complete success, Dr
>> Jethro.
>
> What shall we do with the little one that we took out?
> Too light for a doorstop. Paper weight?
Hey hey hey! Why, I don't.... Um, watcha' guys talking 'bout?
Jethro[AGHL]
Nuttin'. Don't worry about it. You've forgotten by now anyways.
Nick
Um... hate to spill your pint buddy, but the Warez scene is massive
and distributes full finished versions of software around the net for
free. That costs developers millions. Releasing the source to a beta
does minimal harm to sales.
What it does do is give other developers an insight into how you're
doing things. Maybe they will start copying now instead of in a couple
of months' time. Either way their versions will hit the market after
HL2, and in any case <PUTS FLAME SUIT ON> it's only valve. It's not
like HL2 will compare to Doom 3 or Deus Ex 2 on the technology front.
Ben Cottrell
> Um... hate to spill your pint buddy, but the Warez scene is massive
> and distributes full finished versions of software around the net for
> free. That costs developers millions. Releasing the source to a beta
> does minimal harm to sales.
he didn't say it hurt the sales... he said it loses them alot of money.
A massive amount of extra work is now needed to rework the stolen code.
The biggest problem here the security aspect... Worst case scenario is
that anyone who actually has the code may be able to find an exploit
that allows an intruder to access any machine that has HL2 installed.
also, there's a potential for someone to find exploits in the netcode to
allow cheating.. Obviously they must now take extra care to ensure that
this can't happen - as the potential to hack the engine on this scale is
a big turnoff for other developers who may have been thinking of
investing in the Source engine for their own games.
Of course, at the end of the day, this should mean that we will all get
a much more airtight game, so from the gamers' point of view, it's not
necessarily a bad thing.. but it's a real nightmare for valve right
now.
Peter Lykkegaard
"Ben Cottrell" wrote in some message
> The biggest problem here the security aspect... Worst case scenario is
> that anyone who actually has the code may be able to find an exploit
> that allows an intruder to access any machine that has HL2 installed.
Yep, and this could actually prevent me from buying HL2 on H-Day
- Peter
Nick
> Nick wrote:
>
> > Um... hate to spill your pint buddy, but the Warez scene is massive
> > and distributes full finished versions of software around the net for
> > free. That costs developers millions. Releasing the source to a beta
> > does minimal harm to sales.
>
> he didn't say it hurt the sales... he said it loses them alot of money.
The only way it loses them money *is* by hurting sales.
> A massive amount of extra work is now needed to rework the stolen code.
It doesn't need reworking. The most valuable parts of the code to a
developer (like myself) are the core 3d engine and any fundamental
networking algorithms. These things cannot easily be changed without
starting the project over. The idea that other developers can steal
the code is nonsensical - anybody releasing a game for commercial
benefit using the hl2 engine without paying valve for it will be taken
to court anyway, and the effort required to disguise it is more than
the effort required to build from scratch.
> The biggest problem here the security aspect... Worst case scenario is
> that anyone who actually has the code may be able to find an exploit
> that allows an intruder to access any machine that has HL2 installed.
Snowball in hell's chance, as hl2 isn't an operating system or
anything like that, and steam already suffers from that problem
without anybody seeing the source.
> also, there's a potential for someone to find exploits in the netcode to
> allow cheating..
LOL! Have you played CS 1.6? You don't need the source to cheat in
multiplayer, just a simple memory reader/writer and a spare afternoon.
Ask myg0t.
> Obviously they must now take extra care to ensure that
> this can't happen - as the potential to hack the engine on this scale is
> a big turnoff for other developers who may have been thinking of
> investing in the Source engine for their own games.
I don't know of many developers who would choose the hl2 engine over
the Thief 3/Deus Ex 2 engine or the Doom 3 engine. We certainly
wouldn't. Valve don't exactly have a reputation for clean, bug free
code.
---
To be honest, I'm not convinced that valve didn't 'engineer' this leak
themselves. It's the perfect excuse to miss the xmas rush if the game
isn't complete, generates a wave of sympathy, and the thing you
mentioned about taking more time to fix any loopholes might persuade
some developers to go for the hl2 engine (highly unlikely, but
possible). It makes good business sense if that is the current
situation at valve. Every id software game since Doom 2 has been
leaked in alpha (Quake 3 IHV test, Doom 3 E3 alpha for example), and
that didn't hurt sales or persuade people to use other engines in
their games.
John Twernbold
> The only way it loses them money *is* by hurting sales.
Nonsense. If they need to spend extra development time yet total sales
remain the same, they lose money.
>> A massive amount of extra work is now needed to rework the stolen
>> code.
>
> It doesn't need reworking.
It does, according to Valve. Given their familiarity with the game, I'm
willing to give 'em the benefit of the doubt.
>> also, there's a potential for someone to find exploits in the netcode
>> to allow cheating..
>
> LOL! Have you played CS 1.6? You don't need the source to cheat
It certainly makes it EASIER to develop cheats. HL was cheat-free for
the first several years since no one was able to crack the CRC. Still
haven't, in fact. With current hardware and operating systems, it's
impossible to create a cheat-proof game; developers instead can only
stay ahead of the cheat creators. Giving them the source code is NOT the
way to do this...
> To be honest, I'm not convinced that valve didn't 'engineer' this leak
> themselves. It's the perfect excuse to miss the xmas rush if the game
> isn't complete
/me rolls eyes.
You've repeatedly claimed to be a game developer, and then you spout
nonsense like that... it's not helping your credibility.
Speaking of which, tell us what company you're working for, and what
game you're developing.
WildStyle24_7
Twernbold surprised me by leaping from a nearby hedge.
As I levelled my service revolver, the unfortunate creature cried out;
>
> Speaking of which, tell us what company you're working for, and what
> game you're developing.
>
I'll take £10 on it being Duke 4...
--
"No is for wimps. No is for pussies. No is to live small and
embittered, cherishing the opportunities you missed because
they might have sent the wrong message."
-Dave Eggers
WildStyle24_7
Twernbold surprised me by leaping from a nearby hedge.
As I levelled my service revolver, the unfortunate creature cried out;
>
> Speaking of which, tell us what company you're working for, and what
> game you're developing.
>
...and a fiver says it's "Jet Set Willy: 3D".
ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy
> game you're developing.
"What the hell is your problem?"
Now come to think of it , John...That sounds GAY.
So is it six months later?
Well you are still at it......running at the mouth.
Me am still HEERRREE..Thank You
Were are your quire boys?......... Lefty?
LOOOVVVVEEEE to chat, but I do have better things to do
You know.
Bye RAMON
WildStyle24_7
As I levelled my service revolver, the unfortunate creature cried out;
> but I do have better things to do
>
...but stopping by to continue a months old argument with a variant of
the "get a life" gambit shows you care, thanks so much.
--
"Sykes' instructions were long, complicated and hard to remember,
but each of them ended in the phrase 'and then kick him in the
testicles'."
-SOE Staff Officer remembers unarmed combat training
Spyder Barques
"WildStyle24_7" <wildst...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19fb3ed94...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> I was strolling through alt.games.half-life one day, when suddenly
> ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy surprised me by leaping from a nearby hedge.
> As I levelled my service revolver, the unfortunate creature cried out;
>
> > but I do have better things to do
> >
> ...but stopping by to continue a months old argument with a variant of
> the "get a life" gambit shows you care, thanks so much.
Don't forget, quire practice is tomorrow at 6. Don't miss another, you need
the practice. Your operatic warble is not what is could be.
--
Thad
"Can you see
under my
thumb?
It's you."
Nick
> Nick wrote:
> > The only way it loses them money *is* by hurting sales.
>
> Nonsense. If they need to spend extra development time yet total sales
> remain the same, they lose money.
They *don't* need to spend extra development time. That's the point.
If they choose to do so then they are hurting their own wallets. Why
miss the christmas rush because somebody 'stole' the source (yet you
can't get it anywhere on the net...)?
> >> A massive amount of extra work is now needed to rework the stolen
> >> code.
> >
> > It doesn't need reworking.
>
> It does, according to Valve. Given their familiarity with the game, I'm
> willing to give 'em the benefit of the doubt.
The reworking required to stop hackers finding loopholes is pretty
much a total rebuild. Fancy waiting another 5 years to see hl2? They
can't change much except the surface in a couple of months.
> >> also, there's a potential for someone to find exploits in the netcode
> >> to allow cheating..
> >
> > LOL! Have you played CS 1.6? You don't need the source to cheat
>
> It certainly makes it EASIER to develop cheats. HL was cheat-free for
> the first several years since no one was able to crack the CRC. Still
> haven't, in fact. With current hardware and operating systems, it's
> impossible to create a cheat-proof game; developers instead can only
> stay ahead of the cheat creators. Giving them the source code is NOT the
> way to do this...
No, but CS 1.6 cheating is massive at the moment, and the best they
can do is offer a kick vote and be done with it. It would be *much*
more beneficial to try and stop piracy, but just as worthless at the
end of the day. The weird thing is, there are some talented coders
about whose talents are wasted hacking games instead of getting a
proper job in the industry.
> > To be honest, I'm not convinced that valve didn't 'engineer' this leak
> > themselves. It's the perfect excuse to miss the xmas rush if the game
> > isn't complete
>
> /me rolls eyes.
>
> You've repeatedly claimed to be a game developer, and then you spout
> nonsense like that... it's not helping your credibility.
If source code is leaked, then it is much more beneficial to get the
game on the shelves ASAP, 1) to stop other developers stealing ideas
and implementations, and 2) any bugs in the game can be blamed on the
leak and fixed later. Like I said, valve don't have a reputation of
producing bug-free code.
> Speaking of which, tell us what company you're working for, and what
> game you're developing.
I can't do that and say bad things about valve at the same time, can
I? That's why I posted under an alias. You might see me in
rec.autos.simulators for our current project, though...
John Twernbold
> They *don't* need to spend extra development time.
In *your* opinion. Given the choice of believing you or the game's
developers, I'd be far more willing to give the benefit of the doubt to
the latter. Looking at Valve's history, they've repeatedly shown that
they're willing to take the extra development time to release a quality
product, rather than shoving it out the door half-finished and buggy.
For example, look at the release of Half-Life.
> Why miss the christmas rush because somebody 'stole' the source (yet
> you can't get it anywhere on the net...)?
Ah, so now you're suggesting that the source code wasn't even stolen in
the first place? Ooooo, and perhaps all Valve employees are those gray
aliens who shot JFK, right? :-)
> The reworking required to stop hackers finding loopholes is pretty
> much a total rebuild.
More nonsense. They can do as little or as much rebuilding as they want.
As you suggested, at one end of the spectrum is a total rebuild. At the
other is your alternate suggestion of releasing the game immediately.
Surely you see there's some middle ground there, right? For example,
they could do an overhaul just of the netcode, leaving the rest of it
unchanged. That certainly wouldn't take even a year, let alone five
years.
> No, but CS 1.6 cheating is massive at the moment, and the best they
> can do is offer a kick vote and be done with it.
...which is why they're apparently interested in rewriting sensitive
portions of HL2 code, and implementing updates through Steam in order to
release anti-cheat measures more quickly.
> It would be *much* more beneficial to try and stop piracy, but just as
> worthless at the end of the day.
Shouldn't you wait until the game is released until you make that
pronouncement?
> The weird thing is, there are some talented coders about whose talents
> are wasted hacking games instead of getting a proper job in the
> industry.
Well, that's kinda' their choice, ain't it?
> 1) to stop other developers stealing ideas
> and implementations
Uh, didn't you just say this yesterday:
"The idea that other developers can steal the code is nonsensical -
anybody releasing a game for commercial benefit using the hl2 engine
without paying valve for it will be taken to court anyway, and the
effort required to disguise it is more than the effort required to
build from scratch."
Care to revise either of your contradictory statements? :-)
> 2) any bugs in the game can be blamed on the leak and fixed later.
> Like I said, valve don't have a reputation of producing bug-free code.
Yeah, that's freakin' brilliant. Release it now even though it's buggy
and possibly prone to massively widespread hacking, and hope no one
cares. After all, customers are used to it, right?
>> Speaking of which, tell us what company you're working for, and what
>> game you're developing.
>
> I can't do that and say bad things about valve at the same time, can
> I?
Right, just like I can't tell you which government agency I'm working
for as a superspy, currently investigating the Valve source code theft.
Oh, and the alien/JFK thing is part of my assignment, too...
Perhaps I could interest you in The Tinfoil Hat? One size fits all!
John Twernbold
>> but I do have better things to do
>
> ...but stopping by to continue a months old argument with a variant of
> the "get a life" gambit shows you care, thanks so much.
Remind me, which one was ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy?
Mike Kohary
news:5b326e8.03101...@posting.google.com...
>
> What it does do is give other developers an insight into how you're
> doing things. Maybe they will start copying now instead of in a couple
> of months' time. Either way their versions will hit the market after
> HL2, and in any case <PUTS FLAME SUIT ON> it's only valve. It's not
> like HL2 will compare to Doom 3 or Deus Ex 2 on the technology front.
Heh, flame suit. ;) Seriously, at E3 John Carmack was reported to have
gone back to his booth and sat down with his head in his hands after
watching the HL2 demo. The HL2 engine will be no slouch, especially on the
physics front where it looks to break a ton of new ground for the FPS genre.
Mike
Mike Kohary
> themselves.
No offense intended, but you were doing fine until you ruined your
credibility with this line.
Mike
WildStyle24_7
Twernbold surprised me by leaping from a nearby hedge.
As I levelled my service revolver, the unfortunate creature cried out;
>
> Remind me, which one was ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy?
>
Christ knows - a run of the mill one, evidently.
--
"All three of those are way better, and equally or more realistic than
Falcon 4. Falcon doesnt even HAVE nukes, and there is NO way it
could be that hard to fly a little F-16."
-Jeff, on Falcon 4's deficiencies
Ben Cottrell
>
> WildStyle24_7 wrote:
> >> but I do have better things to do
> >
> > ...but stopping by to continue a months old argument with a variant of
> > the "get a life" gambit shows you care, thanks so much.
>
> Remind me, which one was ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy?
He was the one that called you a "quire boy" ... doesn't that set the
bells ringing?
John Twernbold
> He was the one that called you a "quire boy" ... doesn't that set the
> bells ringing?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/rg0j
Oh, THAT one! Ha, that brings back memories...
Let us be having much the witticism as fucking literary novelists from
England taking the fluid with the English speaking! Oh, and I'm
apparently a racist. ;-)
I am amused that "ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy" came back after all this time;
he evidently must've written the date down on his calendar just so he
could prove Neil wrong when it was suggested that "in six months time,
we'll all be here (including Bold), carrying on the same as normal.
You, however, won't." Yeah, he really showed us, huh?
This conversion is over!
Ben Cottrell
> > What it does do is give other developers an insight into how you're
> > doing things. Maybe they will start copying now instead of in a couple
> > of months' time. Either way their versions will hit the market after
> > HL2, and in any case <PUTS FLAME SUIT ON> it's only valve. It's not
> > like HL2 will compare to Doom 3 or Deus Ex 2 on the technology front.
>
> Heh, flame suit. ;) Seriously, at E3 John Carmack was reported to have
> gone back to his booth and sat down with his head in his hands after
> watching the HL2 demo. The HL2 engine will be no slouch, especially on the
> physics front where it looks to break a ton of new ground for the FPS genre.
I haven't seen any live footage of Doom 3 yet (Not sure where to get it
from, or if it even exists)... but IMO the live footage of HL2 was
simply mind-blowing. I've seen screenshots of Doom 3.. and to be
honest, they're not really that impressive... However with that said,
the screenshots for HL2 weren't mindblowing either (Although the
character detail for Alyx, Gordon, G-Man etc looked pretty funky, but
stills of the level design and monsters etc still looked fairly
so-so...) of course, the impact of those screenshots now are *Nothing*
compared to how good they look when you see them in motion!
I'm very interested however in seeing how good the Doom 3 'Cinematic
quality visuals' (As described on the PlanetDoom D3 Overview) looks on
video.... From what I understand (Reading the overview of Doom3
technology), a lot of effort has gone into making impressive visuals
.... on the other hand, Valve have spent a large amount of time making
highly impressive Character animations, AI and realistic physics ....
Of course they spent a long time on their pixel-shader technology too
... I think the main contest will be to see how Doom 3 Answers this
aspect of the Source Engine. (I do have great faith in ID for creating a
visually stunning game.. but the stakes are already high)
Ben Cottrell
> I am amused that "ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy" came back after all this time;
> he evidently must've written the date down on his calendar just so he
> could prove Neil wrong when it was suggested that "in six months time,
> we'll all be here (including Bold), carrying on the same as normal.
> You, however, won't." Yeah, he really showed us, huh?
Would anyone like to speculate whether he will be here in a year's time
now? or perhaps we could make it a regular annual event :)
ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy
Oh, THAT one! Ha, that brings back memories...
Let us be having much the witticism as fucking literary novelists
from
England taking the fluid with the English speaking! Oh, and I'm
apparently a racist. ;-)
I am amused that "ihaveHLBSOFlegalcopy" came back after all this
time;
he evidently must've written the date down on his calendar just so he
could prove Neil wrong when it was suggested that "in six months
time,
we'll all be here (including Bold), carrying on the same as normal.
You, however, won't." Yeah, he really showed us, huh?
This conversion is over!
I Write:
Ha Ha Ha Ha HA HA HA , Hey, John you are such a cheese ball,
Using bad grammar like I do and Using my Ending lines Like "This
conversion is over!" Is it not the line I said to you when I was
making the point that most everything you have done here is giving
self gratifying advice on the premise that it would help some lost
soul, but in reality time has proven that your "Help" or "Advice" as
been uncalled for attacks and deprecation. You think that you help me
or people here? Maybe you do, but I have not read any comments. The
only things I have read have been an illusion of knowledge and
authority, and when you come face to face with a person like me,
honest, truthful, and candid and at times straightforward you see that
as an attack.. you are like a evil child at times wanting to do good,
but since you are evil anything you do turns out bad. Heed this
advice: evaluate your self write your opinions and observations down.
Then have someone you treat or have treated badly evaluate you. Talk
to that person and compare notes, you will see that you two find
similar actions and behavior. If you are smart as you think you are
then you should start noticing that you are many people to many
different persons. That you behave and act very accordingly to your
self gratifying, beneficial nature. But I don't blame you for that,
because we all do that too, what got me mad was the extra mile you
took to upset me. I know that I am not educated like you, for I never
set foot in a High School let alone a college or university, and to be
honest I always have to use a spell checker when I write here, because
you have made fun of my spelling errors and writing skills, and if I
do make an error most people understand what was meant, but not you,
you see that as a weakness and use your damn awful witticism. But just
because I lack an education does not suggest that I maybe stupid, I
can see the world maybe even better than other people and even better
than you,I say this because I have no prejudices…. unlike you. You
more than likely will oppose and defend yourself from the last
statement. Saying that you grow up all your life with ,ba ba ba ba ba
ba ba What ever..
Like I said before time has shown what you are all about.
You see in around six months.
I Said this on
Date: 2003-05-04 22:03:12 PST
Have you even read my first post?
If you did then you miss understood me. I was infuriated by the CD and
not towards anyone, but now am beginning to get mad at you. Please
stop posting towards me your ill begot advise.
P.S by posting (Ramon is that you) are you
conceiving that Roman is me. Please evil person stop insinuating that
you have some fucking internet prowess and power. Roman is not I. This
conversion is over. I will not respond towards any boastful and
arrogance statements of yours. Say anything you want. (Sticks and
stones……)
Frode
Hash: SHA1
Ben Cottrell wrote:
>I haven't seen any live footage of Doom 3 yet (Not sure where to get it
>from, or if it even exists)...
http://www.fileplanet.com/section.aspx?s=31854
In the scary department it's looking like D3 will be very very good. The
previous video (from E3 2002 I think) showcased the shadowing system much
more and it's gonna be spooky for sure. I suspect HL2 will be the better
overall game however. Although, now with Max Payne 2 using the same physics
engine and being released already HL2 missed the boat on being the first in
that area.
- --
Frode
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Nick
> Nick wrote:
> > They *don't* need to spend extra development time.
>
> In *your* opinion. Given the choice of believing you or the game's
> developers, I'd be far more willing to give the benefit of the doubt to
> the latter. Looking at Valve's history, they've repeatedly shown that
> they're willing to take the extra development time to release a quality
> product, rather than shoving it out the door half-finished and buggy.
> For example, look at the release of Half-Life.
Half-Life is extremely buggy. Nothing major, just a whole bunch of
minor bugs, (eg) the old menu system animations caching to the HD and
slowing down, or not appearing at all; not being able to use the
numeric keypad to type IP addresses into the console (0 and . don't
work), and that's before you even get to the game proper. And that was
after versions 1.1.0.1, 1.1.0.4, 1.1.0.6, 1.1.0.7, 1.1.0.8.......
> > Why miss the christmas rush because somebody 'stole' the source (yet
> > you can't get it anywhere on the net...)?
>
> Ah, so now you're suggesting that the source code wasn't even stolen in
> the first place? Ooooo, and perhaps all Valve employees are those gray
> aliens who shot JFK, right? :-)
I said 'stolen' because it might have been 'leaked'. I know it's out
there because I have it. It's extremely hard to find, whereas I would
have expected it to be all over P2P immediately. You're conspiracy
theorist bashing, whilst amusing, doesn't add credence to your
arguments, by the way.
> > The reworking required to stop hackers finding loopholes is pretty
> > much a total rebuild.
>
> More nonsense. They can do as little or as much rebuilding as they want.
> As you suggested, at one end of the spectrum is a total rebuild. At the
> other is your alternate suggestion of releasing the game immediately.
> Surely you see there's some middle ground there, right? For example,
> they could do an overhaul just of the netcode, leaving the rest of it
> unchanged. That certainly wouldn't take even a year, let alone five
> years.
You have successfully glued your hands to the wrong end of the stick
and madly swung it about your head. I said 'The reworking required to
*stop hackers finding loopholes* is pretty much a total rebuild.' Yes
they can rebuild some, none, or all of it, but if they want to cover
all the loopholes that hackers might find in their source effectively,
they have to rebuild it all, pretty much. The other option is to just
let it go and fix problems as and when they appear.
> > No, but CS 1.6 cheating is massive at the moment, and the best they
> > can do is offer a kick vote and be done with it.
>
> ...which is why they're apparently interested in rewriting sensitive
> portions of HL2 code, and implementing updates through Steam in order to
> release anti-cheat measures more quickly.
Agreed, but you try looking through 6144 C++ source files for those
'sensitive portions'...
> > It would be *much* more beneficial to try and stop piracy, but just as
> > worthless at the end of the day.
>
> Shouldn't you wait until the game is released until you make that
> pronouncement?
Why? Look at Codemasters. Lots of money spend on FADE technology to
try and stop people pirating their game, and ironically the only way I
could get my fully legit copy of Operation Flashpoint to work was by
downloading a no-CD crack. Name one piece of software which you can
buy in a shop, but you can't go online and download from a warez site.
> > The weird thing is, there are some talented coders about whose talents
> > are wasted hacking games instead of getting a proper job in the
> > industry.
>
> Well, that's kinda' their choice, ain't it?
Yep. It's their waste of a good salary too.
> > 1) to stop other developers stealing ideas
> > and implementations
>
> Uh, didn't you just say this yesterday:
>
> "The idea that other developers can steal the code is nonsensical -
> anybody releasing a game for commercial benefit using the hl2 engine
> without paying valve for it will be taken to court anyway, and the
> effort required to disguise it is more than the effort required to
> build from scratch."
>
> Care to revise either of your contradictory statements? :-)
Yes, once again you have expressed your inability to read. Stealing
'ideas and implementations' of netcode, algorithms or lipsynching
technology can't be proved, but could be done over a short amount of
time (say, the 4 months hl2 has been delayed by) and variations can be
incorporated into rivals' code (That's statement 1, by the way. Still
with me?). 'Releasing a game for commercial benefit using the hl2
engine' is too obvious and would be spotted a mile off. So nobody is
going to do that, because of the legal fight that any developer would
lose by doing so. It's comparing stealing the blueprints of next
year's Ferrari F2004 F1 car and building your own version, to noticing
how they've built their front wing to get more aerodynamic efficiency
and designing yours to incorporate the same solution to the problem.
> > 2) any bugs in the game can be blamed on the leak and fixed later.
> > Like I said, valve don't have a reputation of producing bug-free code.
>
> Yeah, that's freakin' brilliant. Release it now even though it's buggy
> and possibly prone to massively widespread hacking, and hope no one
> cares. After all, customers are used to it, right?
Like I said, you find a loophole in 6144 C++ source files... It is a
PC game, and unlike the consoles, PC gamers are used to buggy games,
downloading patches and suchlike, even from games which had no source
thefts.
> >> Speaking of which, tell us what company you're working for, and what
> >> game you're developing.
> >
> > I can't do that and say bad things about valve at the same time, can
> > I?
>
> Right, just like I can't tell you which government agency I'm working
> for as a superspy, currently investigating the Valve source code theft.
> Oh, and the alien/JFK thing is part of my assignment, too...
>
> Perhaps I could interest you in The Tinfoil Hat? One size fits all!
Well done. You completely missed the point again. Perhaps I could
interest you in The Dunce Hat? One size fits you.
Nick
I managed to get ahold of the Doom 3 E3 alpha that was leaked. It's a
good 18 months old now, but I have to say that even though it was
obviously very early, unoptimised code, the detail in the graphics was
fantastic. The realtime shadows really add something to the game,
especially when combined with the bump-mapped skins on the characters.
The actual game itself was hardly playable, but only a real moron
would download a game 2 years from completion and expect it to be
fully working! The 3D engine has been fully rewritten from scratch,
too, unlike hl2 (moseying about in the hl2 source you come across such
files as 'quakedef.h', 'pr_edict.cpp', 'progs.h', heavily modified,
but still legacy from the original Quake).
By the way if you think I'm saying that the hl2 engine is just a Quake
I engine mod, I'm not, but look at tenebrae.sourceforge.net to see the
Doom 3 algorithms applied to the original Quake engine. I was just
surprised that they didn't do a full rewrite, as the core code in hl
was build from Quake, and hl2 just seems to be an extension of that
code into 2003/4. Quite a lot of the hl2 source files have "This
product contains software technology licensed from Id Software, Inc.
("Id Technology"). Id Technology (c) 1996 Id Software, Inc. All
Rights Reserved." copyright notes in the headers.
Kudos to valve for focusing on animation, ik and physics to make their
game seem real. Photorealistic graphics only work if they move
realistically, too. I really want hl2 to be great, it's just I think
that technologically, Doom 3 is much more advanced, and in terms of
storyline and physics, Deus Ex 2 is on another level. At least hl2
won't be 100% linear as hl was.
Nick
None taken. I'm 99% sure it was theft, but hey, 1% is still a chance...
John Twernbold
> Half-Life is extremely buggy.
Compared to what? ALL games are buggy; it's the degree which is
important, and HL was generally considered to be stable and have
relatively few bugs when compared to other similar games, many of which
have show-stopping bugs out of the box.
But you're missing the point: Valve could've finished HL in 1996/1997,
but they took the extra development time because they felt they needed
it to release a solid, complete title with fewer bugs than if they had
rushed it out the door. Thus my comment about them "needing" more
development time (especially in response to events like the code theft),
even if they lose money due to the extra work.
> You're conspiracy theorist bashing, whilst amusing, doesn't add
> credence to your arguments, by the way.
What, is this some type of payback since I (and others) pointed out that
your conspiracy theories are ludicrous? This tit for tat still doesn't
restore your credibility after making such silly claims.
> I said 'The reworking required to *stop hackers finding loopholes* is
> pretty much a total rebuild.'
No one's saying they're going to "stop" hackers, only greatly reduce the
ease and number of hacks due to the source code being available. And
THAT doesn't take a total rebuild.
> Yes they can rebuild some, none, or all of it, but if they want to
> cover all the loopholes that hackers might find in their source
> effectively, they have to rebuild it all, pretty much.
Again, more nonsense since you're making the wrongful assumption that
they'd want to fully cover every possible loophole. And even that
wouldn't work with a total rebuild since you simply CAN'T create a
cheat-proof game, given our current hardware and operating systems.
Hell, even I know this, and I'm not a game developer; what company was
it you work for, anyway?
> The other option is to just let it go and fix problems as and when
> they appear.
Yeah, that's brilliant...
> Agreed, but you try looking through 6144 C++ source files for those
> 'sensitive portions'...
But I didn't write the thing. People like Yahn Bernier would obviously
have a better idea about which portions of the netcode were most
susceptible to hacking, and thus should be changed significantly. I'm
not sure why you continue to see this as a black or white, all or
nothing choice, with the only choices being to release it now, or change
everything and release it in five years.
> Name one piece of software which you can buy in a shop, but you can't
> go online and download from a warez site.
WITH a working CD-Key? More than I can count. It's not the media that
prevents piracy, it's the CD-Key authorization, which is clearly one
component they'll likely investigate assuming it's in the code
available.
> It is a PC game, and unlike the consoles, PC gamers are used to buggy
> games, downloading patches and suchlike, even from games which had no
> source thefts.
Ah, so it's better to release games early and buggy, rather than
delaying the release to hammer out major problems? Ugh, is this how
things work at your company?