Please read .Re: cheats for 6.5, already
Darkman
was started by geno..and his post is below.
Omg I am traumatized! I heard about the 6.5 leaks, and went to
fortresscheats to see for myself, and I found... a cheat for 6.5!!! omfg
this sucks! There will be no end to it! Oh dear... I believe I am going to
fall off of the chair...
--
____________________
* *
* geno *
* *
____________________
this second post is by Ares
Well, I wanted to see if it was true too. There is a post on the site about
a hack for the new smokescreen grenades. The guy who I guess is running
this piece of shit site boasts about how he is so much smarter than the CS
team and how did they ever think they would stop him from making new cheats.
Some one should shoot this piece of garbage. It's fucko's like this that
also think it's cool to release virus' into the world. They say "what comes
around goes around" . I really hope this is true and these assholes all get
a good dose of their own shit. Oh well. My rant for today.
next came joel with,
I hope someone ports HL/CS to the "X-box" ;-) > Perhaps when everything is
hard coded there will finally be no cheats. Does a perfect world exist?
Perhaps the X-box will be vapour ware anyway.
then Grim Reaper with,
perhaps, but remember that the x-box is still years away, and by that
time a better first person shooter might be made (unlikely, but
possible).
Grim Reaper
Then came my post,
Hay! guys,
If we want this to stop.... then send the site to the counterstrike team and
valve...and let them deal with it... and if you find any sites...with cheats
for 6.5 send them as well..they maybe able to have this guys webpage's shut
down..if we want this to stop then lets, get it stopped.
We all moan about cheats but what are we doing to stop it.....
DM........
Now it gets interesting, this was posted by Mustang60348.
NOW hold on one second here...The CS team should have NO RIGHT to shut down
a persons web site for supplying cheats for CS...
my reply was,
It seems to me that you don't care, that this guy has already or may have
created a cheat for cS6.5, if you want this to stop or at least to control
this cheating crap, then you should try to support any way of stopping these
people.
As it's not just a game he's destroying it's a community of people trying to
have fun, in there own time..which is slowly being trashed by these people.
Or do you use cheats yourself ?
And if enough people who want a cheat free game, complain and sent these
sites to counterstrike and valve I'm Shaw...this company could contact the
guys service provider,... there has to be something they can do.
I think about 80%, of the counterstrike community would like to see it
stopped, so why not get your thinking head on and come up with something
better, if you don't like my suggestion.....
.One thing I forgot to add, they should have the right..as it's detrimental
to the MOD, if the cheats destroy the mod then counterstrike and valve will
also loose out them self's, as no one will play the MOD so it's in
everyone's interest to get it stopped.
Why moan about cheats if you don't care, stop these people now and you'll
enjoy the game even more later.
Thing's can only get better, if you support none cheating games....
Cheats are Ok when playing single player games.... it only effects you,..
It's not ok when your playing multiplayer games... as your effecting other
people, and your taking away there rights to play a game as it should be
played.
DM.......
this reply came from Pilgrim,
Sorry but in the real world they aren't breaking any laws or technically
committing a crime against a person or a company and as it is the site is in
Denmark or there abouts I think (I assume this from the .de at the end,
could be Germany though) they would have to take some kind of legal action
and work through international treaties and legal technicalities.
So lets just get this straight right now there is nothing the CS team can do
about that site or any other cheat sites being up, okay, so let it go, think
of more realistic ways to foil the cheaters efforts, post em here and we
will all gladly agree/disagree but in the end if you don't have at least a
half decent solution quite frankly people here will tell you so!
The CS guys ain't Time/Warner or Lucasarts who will jump at the merest sniff
of copyright infringement or exploitation, all they can do is use their
brains and peoples suggestions to help them come up with a way to beat these
guys and minimize possible exploits or cheats.
Please stop jumping on your high horse everytime someone disagrees or comes
up with a reason why your ideas are not attractive to them, I stopped in the
post above as we could argue for a year or so on the privacy topic and never
get any closer to agreeing with each others positions, it was a pure opinion
thing so I let it be.
Cheating is shit and it sux but this is just a game dude, in a year we will
all be playing something else most probably and be suffering cheasters in
that too so don't get so worked up about it, its not like a lost tribe in
the jungles of South America is being wiped out or anything!!! ;)
PilgriM
I replied to this but won't put it in as I'll explain everything at the end.
Then came this reply from someone called K
On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:09:48 GMT, Darkman <ne...@again.m8.ok> wrote:
>Second since when did I say they where breaking any law's, if I remember
>rightly saying people have rights to play the game without cheats
you didn't, and he didn't say you said that, if you want to get into
that stupid game. he was pointing out that you won't be able to get
those sites shut down _unless_ they're breaking any laws (which, it
doesn't appear they are).
>Have you contacted the counter-strike Team, to find out if there's nothing
>they can do?
no, because they don't own the sites and have no say over the sites.
would you contact the local GM dealership because the last sony
discman you bought didn't work? it doesn't work this way.
>And what more realistic way to stop this then to get the cheat sites taken
>down?
welcome to the internet, I've got some real estate you might be
interested in .. . anyway, you're not going to be able to shut
down any site you want to just because you don't like what they
have on it. especially if that site isn't doing anything illegal.
I'll let _you_ figure out why.
>You can also say you don't like my suggestion, that's up to you. but
instead
>of shooting someone down for a suggestion, why don't you even try to come
up
>with a better one..at least I'm trying which is more than I can say for
you.
I've got a better one; fix the cheats and or discourage people from
using them. I don't like cheaters, myself .. but the sheer abundance
of them shows me that there are _lots_ of people who do, or who would
not care if anyone is cheating. they paid their money, just like you
and me, and they can do what they feel like .. if you don't want to
play with them, then don't play with them. it's simple.
>My suggestion was a valid one, but if people shoot you down for this.. then
>no one will bother to try and do anything.
no, it was not a valid suggestion, sorry that you feel this way.
>You say cheating sux and it's just a game, well your right cheating sux and
>yes it's just a game.. but I like to play the game as it was intended to be
>played,.. and people cheating are taking away my right to play the game as
>it was intended.
and you're taking away their right to play the game the way they
intended to play it. it's the exact same thing, except this time
you're on the offending side. if you want to play without cheats,
get 19 of your closest counterstrike buddies who don't cheat and
play with them. set up your own server and kick off people who
cheat. find a server that does same.
>So if you feel the same..and don't like cheats then get something done
about
>it.... instead of trying to tell me what I should or should not be
>saying....
I know that wasn't directed at me, but I'll respond to it anyway;
I'm not trying to tell you what you should or should not say, you
can say whatever you like. I am just telling you that you're not
right. :)
And now to put Pilgrim , K and Mustang60348 straight on a few things, this
is a snippet from blueyonders rules and regulations.
6. USE OF THE INTERNET SERVICE
6.1 The Service Provider may, on reasonable notice, give instructions about
the use of the Internet Service which the Service Provider thinks to be
reasonably necessary in the interest of safety, or the quality of service to
Service Provider's other customers or users of the Internet in general and
any such instructions shall whilst they are in force, be deemed to form part
of this Agreement;
6.2 Without limitation the Customer undertakes not to use or permit anyone
else to use the Internet Service:
6.2.1 to send or receive any material which is grossly offensive, of an
indecent, obscene or menacing character, blasphemous or defamatory of any
person, in contempt of court or in breach of confidence, copyright, rights
of personality, publicity or privacy or any other third party rights;
6.2.2 to cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety;
Ok now guys as I said, this is part of blueyonder service providers rules
and regulations to customers using there services, and as most people will
know already most other servers will also have similar rules,in all countrys
as you can see in section 6.2.2 what it say's, I don't think I have to
repeat it.
This clause alone could have this guy site shut down, as he annoying a lot
of people and inconveniencing the counter-strike team and Valve and people
like me who want a cheat free game.
So as I said in my first post if people want these sites shut down then,
send them to Valve and the CS team, who I'm SURE will try and get them
removed, as they also will benefit from this.
Now tell me these site can't be removed or shut down if enough people
complain about them, because they can....
And this is a valid point, and another way to get cheating webpages stopped.
Darkman
P.s
From the replys you 3 posted, tells me you might use cheats and don't like
it when people tell you they hate it,
Or come up with ways to stop it.
I'm fighting for a game where people don't use cheats, and I'm sorry if your
offended by that.
But your days are numbered.
Darkman slowly fades in to the night, till the next time,
heheheheheheheehehe.
THE END.
PilgriM
cheating Darkman, I have been posting to this newsgroup for as long as it
existed and have been regular on AGHL(alt.games.half-life) for over a year
and a half now where I am well known by all.
Don't you think if I was a lame cheater that the ability to be an asshole
would have become apparent to all the people here and at AGHL and I would
have been in many peoples killfiles (as it is I can safely say I am in
none), cause from what I've seen, even if the internet lets you take on a
new identity, if you are essentially a dickhead eventually this personality
trait will shine thru.
What we are talking about is your complete lack of understanding about how
the real world works, rules are not always (in fact they are barely ever)
black and white, they usually have many shades of gray, just quoting your
own ISP's terms and conditions means didly squat.
We all (well 80% of us if I can quote your well researched figures) want to
see cheats out of CS and any other game they infect and do you really
believe the CS team and even Valve are not aware of these sites, they know
where they are and would love to see them shut down I'm sure as it would
make their lives a lot easier but it ain't gunna happen simple as that.
We could argue all day about technicalities but Valve allowed mod support in
HL and the ability to customize the game to suit an individuals tastes so it
could be argued that by doing so they left themselves vulnerable to cheats
and exploits voluntarily (but not purposefully), they didn't place any
regulations or restrictions on what people could do so someone took
advantage of this so why don't we blame Valve then?
I remember one of the cheat sites claiming it was a training mod that
allowed players to practice and get better at the game by having the rings
around the guns and voodoo doll models, now we all know this is complete
bullshit but you could argue legally that this true and what they intended
it for, cause how in hell could you prove otherwise.
A legal system is based on 2 concepts, the actual intention to commit a
crime or nuisance and the actual doing of the crime or the nuisance
behaviour, both of these need (or should I say have) to be proved in a court
of law in order for someone to be found guilty of a crime or misdemeanour.
Your ideas about closing a site down just because you disagree with its
contents (and admittedly so do many others including myself) is quite
frankly an appalling attempt at enforcing draconian censorship on the net,
no matter how justified you feel if you were allowed to get your way, by
default so should everybody else on the net and in the end there would be no
Internet left.
This may seem an extreme example but you can't seem to grasp a simple
concept called freedom to do, think, feel, write, film, invent, destroy,
create what we please (within reasonable bounds of course), there are limits
but you need to understand that a web site that has cheats for a computer
game on it is not really committing a major crime, in fact it isn't breaking
any law at all, nor is it creating a nuisance by just being there and being
available.
The users of the cheats are the ones who are creating the nuisance and for
example: you can't take the viewpoint that if your next door neighbour is
playing loud music you should take action against the artist who created the
music or even the manufacturer of the stereo, if someone gets shot with a
gun made by Smith & Wesson they don't get blamed for it do they, the person
who fired the weapon does!
We are trying to point out to you that what you are suggesting is impossible
to achieve and not the right way to go about getting cheats out of CS and
you insist on mounting very personal attacks on our credibility and honesty
which is the sign of someone who can't argue a subject properly, you should
attack the subjuct not the person, how the hell do you ever think you are
going to sway peoples opinions your way if all you do at the first sign of
dissent is have a go at them?
I guess that all you are going to do in response to this post is make new
accusations which will be very disappointing as it will show that you are
not willing to open your viewpoint up a little and see what we are trying to
say, you seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder about cheating and will
throw the accusations at all and sundry if they disagree with you as you did
to us who responded to your postings.
Also you may have noticed that not 1 person in this newsgroup has posted any
support for your position, does this tell you something??, maybe you could
be wrong about the way to beat cheaters but none of us ever said you were
wrong about wanting them gone, yet you assumed we were all cheaters for not
agreeing with you, that was the wrong thing to do and kindly don't repeat
those baseless accusations again and think before you flame!!!!
PilgriM
Darkman
this started out as a simple suggestion and you and two others never answer
the full post, with out getting on your own high horses, and in the real
world m8 if enough people complained about these sites then My opinion is
servers will do something, even if they asked the guy to remove the cheats
for a MOD... if you site back on your arse, in stead of trying to do
something, then nothing will get done.
And the only CHIP on my shoulders about cheats is the amount of time, I've
seen you guys complain, well instead of complaining m8 do something about
it, in stead of talking about it.
You also quote freedom, what about the freedom of the people who just want
to play counter-strike with out cheats, there being robbed of there freedom,
but you seem more concerned about the site's with these cheats on.
They don't need to be breaking any laws, but what these guys are doing is
creating problems for everyone else, in the game world, and there's a lot to
be said for vast amounts of people saying please can you remove these
cheats.
The more people that want them removed, and complain about cheats on
websites the better.
And the reason no one replies to these posts except one or two like yourself
is there afraid of being flamed from the likes of you people, where as I'm
not.
And you also seem to suggest that blueyonder and it's server rules and
regulations stand for nothing, Some how I don't think they would agree with
you.
And as you keep saying in the real world, well even in the real world m8
there's force in numbers, so instead of sitting around hoping cheats just
fade away or that someone else will remove them for you, get of your arse
and do something, about it.
You seem to blame everyone else about the cheats, except the webpages that
supply them.
And if you don't like my opinion, then as in the real world don't read them
in the first place.
And as for being a Dickhead, I expect that from someone who claims to be
well known, you maybe well known, but what gives you the right to tell
others what they can and cannot say.
As the other's you know how to stand on your head and talk out your arse,
but you also seem to have the s**ts
PilgriM <pilgrimN...@hisplace.net> wrote in message
news:3938...@pan.izone.net.au...
PilgriM
your next bright idea as it'll probably get you killed or something >:{
PilgriM
oh and for that last comment "FUCK YOU", I'm not going to waste intelligent
debating time with your sorry stupid ass anymore.
Darkman <ne...@again.m8.ok> wrote in message
news:Gi5_4.2828$p43.3...@news3.cableinet.net...
iSuck@CounterStrike
you loose the right to play the games.
k
>If you read the halflife, tfc, and cs license agreements if you use cheats
>you loose the right to play the games.
really? thats cool, now all we need to do is get valve to enforce
their license .. :)
--
Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing.
Werner Von Braun (1912-1977)
Darkman
I had a valid point which you did not want to read or understand, even with
the evidence put before you,....you still thought you where right, but at
the end of the day, it's not a matter of who's wrong or right, it's that we
are trying to stop the same thing, I myself that is don't care how long
you've been in this or any other news group, it's a public NG for people to
voice there opinion, but you have tried to force yours on me, I have just
tried to come up with ways to stop cheats, and from the word go you where
aggressive in your post... and there was just no need for it.
And that goes for everyone, it's a dam sight easier to be friendly than to
be aggressive, just because your sat at home in front of a computer, and
think your safe, is no excuse to be rude and abusive towards other people.
And it don't make you smart, to be abusive, just the opposite!
If you wish to put me in your ignore list go ahead. see if I care, I only
care about those people you flame and people who wish to play counter-strike
the way it was meant to be.
DM..................
Darkman
Who ever you are.
iSuck@CounterStrike <jk...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:_48_4.228$Fx6.1...@nnrp1.sbc.net...
Ed Chauvin IV
>Every post you reply to of my posts you try to say that I'm in the wrong,
>this started out as a simple suggestion and you and two others never answer
>the full post, with out getting on your own high horses, and in the real
>world m8 if enough people complained about these sites then My opinion is
>servers will do something, even if they asked the guy to remove the cheats
>for a MOD... if you site back on your arse, in stead of trying to do
>something, then nothing will get done.
>
>And the only CHIP on my shoulders about cheats is the amount of time, I've
>seen you guys complain, well instead of complaining m8 do something about
>it, in stead of talking about it.
I'll ask again, what are *you* doing? Besides complaining.
>You also quote freedom, what about the freedom of the people who just want
>to play counter-strike with out cheats, there being robbed of there freedom,
>but you seem more concerned about the site's with these cheats on.
What about it? Is it more important than the freedom of people to discuss
issues that are important to them?
>They don't need to be breaking any laws, but what these guys are doing is
>creating problems for everyone else, in the game world, and there's a lot to
>be said for vast amounts of people saying please can you remove these
>cheats.
I'd say there's alot more to be said for a provider with the integrity to *not*
shut down a site based solely on popular opinion.
>The more people that want them removed, and complain about cheats on
>websites the better.
>
>And the reason no one replies to these posts except one or two like yourself
>is there afraid of being flamed from the likes of you people, where as I'm
>not.
You're the only one I see doing any flaming, and I'm not afraid of you. Let's
see if you've got the brains to support your position without ad hominem
attacks.
>And you also seem to suggest that blueyonder and it's server rules and
>regulations stand for nothing, Some how I don't think they would agree with
>you.
In this particular instance, they stand for exactly shit. Or haven't you
noticed that we're not talking about a Blueyonder customer?
>And as you keep saying in the real world, well even in the real world m8
>there's force in numbers, so instead of sitting around hoping cheats just
>fade away or that someone else will remove them for you, get of your arse
>and do something, about it.
Again, besides complaining here, what are you doing?
>You seem to blame everyone else about the cheats, except the webpages that
>supply them.
What you fail to comprehend is that the webpages are filling a demand. If
nobody wanted to cheat, nobody'd care enough to put up a site about cheating.
Unfortunately, we live in the real world.
>And if you don't like my opinion, then as in the real world don't read them
>in the first place.
>And as for being a Dickhead, I expect that from someone who claims to be
>well known, you maybe well known, but what gives you the right to tell
>others what they can and cannot say.
That's what we've been trying to figure out. What makes you think you have the
right to tell the Fortresscheats.com guys what they can and cannot say?
>As the other's you know how to stand on your head and talk out your arse,
>but you also seem to have the s**ts
An apt description of what you've been doing. I fail to see how it's germane to
the conversation, however.
Ed Chauvin IV
aka: AlterEd[AsS]
--
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the Beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
PilgriM
squad and rough you up a little, how they going to enforce it, this is the
main crux of the argument thats going on here, we ain't condoning or
supporting cheats, just rying to make this Dimman undertstand that it just
is not possible to get a web site taken down just because he disagrees with
its content, be it cheats for a game or whatever.
PilgriM
iSuck@CounterStrike <jk...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:_48_4.228$Fx6.1...@nnrp1.sbc.net...
PilgriM
agressive and abusive first, I criticised your idea and said I thought it
wasen't a viable or well thought out option, you proceeded to abuse, put
down and generally accused people of having a go at you when this was never
the case, truly can you not read English, the only time I got abusive was in
the end where you odviously made a nasty remark to me about talking out my
ass so you are the aggressor here and in the wrong.
a few quotes from your posts
To Mustang: Or do you use cheats yourself ? ,>very nice just accused him
of being a cheater
To k: But now I just think your sitting on your head and talking from the
other
orifice, people who cheat don't have rights boy ,> accused him of talking
out his ass and called him boy, which to a 30 year old is an insult
To k again: Your the kind of person who knows how to sit on his head and
talk out his
arse.
Trouble is m8 you seem to have the S**ts >,oh very nice he never abused
you yet you had a go at him, so who started the flaming then, ahh I think it
was you.
To k yet again: If I'm right then your just an 18 year old who likes to
cheat and argue with
people for the sake of it.
and don't even know which name to use on game servers.
other then that your not worth it! ,> oh look you just abused another
person who didn't attack you personally, I think I'm onto something here!
To abritto1: And it seems I'm wasting my time trying to help. It's also up
to you people
not just valve and the CS team, to try and stop them, ...but no your
wrong... is all I get, and sarcastic remarks from people who don't like
cheats and try to flame me, well all I can say is stuff the lot of you, and
you deserve everything you get. ,>at this point you have developed a
strange delusion that it wasen't you that had been insulting people all
along when the truth was no-one did, we all disagreed with you about your
idea and provided reasons why and you never once produced anything but a
shallow badly thought out opinion!
In an inane attempt to justify your position you wrote the following:
P.s
From the replys you 3 posted, tells me you might use cheats and don't like
it when people tell you they hate it,
Or come up with ways to stop it.
I'm fighting for a game where people don't use cheats, and I'm sorry if your
offended by that.
But your days are numbered. > there we go you insulted an accused us yet
again of being cheats without any provocation, we never abused or acused you
of anything we just didn't like the implications of your ideas.
to me: As the other's you know how to stand on your head and talk out your
arse,
but you also seem to have the s**ts > real intelligent debating being
produced by you at this point, all hot air and no substance!
I'm beginning to think you are a Troll as your arguments are illogical and
you can't seem to remember what you have posted previously and the FACT that
you started abusing first, we were all just discussing an issue.
PilgriM
Darkman <ne...@again.m8.ok> wrote in message
news:akc_4.3801$p43.4...@news3.cableinet.net...
PilgriM
Darkman <ne...@again.m8.ok> wrote in message
> See how hard it is when you get flamed, now think before you flame others
Why don't you listen to your own advice you were abusing people first
> I had a valid point which you did not want to read or understand, even
with
> the evidence put before you,....you still thought you where right,
I saw no evidence of anything that supported your point, you were merely
putting forward your interpretation of how some rules that aren't even the
ones of the ISP where this cheat site is should allow the site to be taken
down.
> but at the end of the day, it's not a matter of who's wrong or right, it's
that we
> are trying to stop the same thing,
So concepts of right and wrong mean nothing to you? The fact that what you
were suggesting was wrong is not something you care about, well then I think
we are all totally in the right for arguing against your idea.
> I myself that is don't care how long
> you've been in this or any other news group, it's a public NG for people
to
> voice there opinion,
I referred to that as a way of deflecting your implication that because I
disagreed with you then I'm most probably a cheater, you accused me and I
offered up reasons why I should not be clasified as such and my involvement
in these newsgroups was part of my defence. (note that, defence as I was
trying to fend off your attack on my reputation and honesty). Fin voice
your opinion just don't expect us to sit back and say nothing if we disagree
with you, we voiced our opinions as did you, stop being so contradictory.
> but you have tried to force yours on me, I have just
> tried to come up with ways to stop cheats, and from the word go you where
> aggressive in your post... and there was just no need for it.
I never tried to force my opinion on anyone, I simply made an argument and
you refused to even acknowledge our points as valid, aggressive, hypocrisy
again you got aggressive and abusive before any of use, have a look back
through the posts, you also tried to defame some of us by quoting us in an
individual thread (this one) and making accusations at the end based on no
evidence just an assumption you made cause we don't agree with your methods.
> And that goes for everyone, it's a dam sight easier to be friendly than to
> be aggressive, just because your sat at home in front of a computer, and
> think your safe, is no excuse to be rude and abusive towards other people.
Take a leaf out of your own book m8, you got rude and abusive first not us.
> And it don't make you smart, to be abusive, just the opposite!
Christ your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
> If you wish to put me in your ignore list go ahead. see if I care, I only
> care about those people you flame and people who wish to play
counter-strike
> the way it was meant to be.
I ain't going to killfile you yet, unless you do prove to be a troll
PilgriM
SteelPig
Intent is a hard thing to prove but the title of the site would go a long
way in convincing a jury of lay persons.
>
> A legal system is based on 2 concepts, the actual intention to commit a
> crime or nuisance and the actual doing of the crime or the nuisance
> behaviour, both of these need (or should I say have) to be proved in a
court
> of law in order for someone to be found guilty of a crime or misdemeanour.
> Your ideas about closing a site down just because you disagree with its
> contents (and admittedly so do many others including myself) is quite
> frankly an appalling attempt at enforcing draconian censorship on the net,
> no matter how justified you feel if you were allowed to get your way, by
> default so should everybody else on the net and in the end there would be
no
> Internet left.
Not necessarily this is what might be called circumstantial evidence. Using
deductive reasoning to prove a theory.
>
> This may seem an extreme example but you can't seem to grasp a simple
> concept called freedom to do, think, feel, write, film, invent, destroy,
> create what we please (within reasonable bounds of course), there are
limits
> but you need to understand that a web site that has cheats for a computer
> game on it is not really committing a major crime, in fact it isn't
breaking
> any law at all, nor is it creating a nuisance by just being there and
being
> available.
Again this may not be true. If in fact the technology used to create these
"cheats" used some form of reverse engineering then there may be some sort
of copyright infringement. Unless Valves code is considered open source.
>
> The users of the cheats are the ones who are creating the nuisance and for
> example: you can't take the viewpoint that if your next door neighbour is
> playing loud music you should take action against the artist who created
the
> music or even the manufacturer of the stereo, if someone gets shot with a
> gun made by Smith & Wesson they don't get blamed for it do they, the
person
> who fired the weapon does!
Bad Bad Example.!!!! Several States and Municipalities have been sueing Arms
manufacturers lately. In fact Smith and Wesson just cut a deal with
governmant agencies to comply with certain distribution guidelines in trade
for being allowed to continue to sell products to these agencies.
Black mail at best.
iSuck@CounterStrike
that ppl can play the game anyway they want. In reality they shouldnt be
able to but it is very hard to enforce. If it could be enforced I know
something would be done about cheating. Dont say there isnt a way to
enforce it. It may be hard but there have been some successful ways to
prevent cheating like in StarCraft. If you got a screenshot of some1
cheating during a ladder game then blizzard would sometimes reset there
ladder record and put your record back to where it should be. Of course
this wasnt that successful as there were way to many cheaters to help solve
everyones problems but this is a start. Maybe if CS required registering a
name and password they could keep better track of cheaters. And dont say
that if ppl buy a game they can do whatever they want with it because they
bought it. EVERY VIDEO GAME LICENSE AGREEMENT says thats you loose the
right to the game if you cheat and legal action can be taken against you.
Its just to damn hard to enforce. Actually there license agreements are
pretty easy. If you ever read Microsoft's license agreement you dont even
own the software you buy from them. You were just given the right to use it.
In fact most movie companies dont allow you to show movies to ppl other then
close family and friends. Disney sued tons of SCHOOLS and day cares for
violating this. Of course I probably bored you to death with all this
boring License Agreement stuff but I am bored and got know life, and plus
its good to know ;)
iSuck@CounterStrike
they almost most took action from Winamp for something most of us wouldnt
have even noticed. They said that Winamp was violating there license
agreement. Winamp was forced to make a few changes in version 2.62 from
2.61 because of this although none we would have probably noticed. Read
there read me file and it will tell you more. DOWN WITH MICROSOFT!!!!! DOWN
WITH THE EVIL EMPIRE!!!!!
iSuck@CounterStrike <jk...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:cgm_4.511$Xc7.3...@nnrp3.sbc.net...
Ed Chauvin IV
>See how hard it is when you get flamed, now think before you flame others
>I had a valid point which you did not want to read or understand, even with
>the evidence put before you,....you still thought you where right, but at
>the end of the day, it's not a matter of who's wrong or right, it's that we
>are trying to stop the same thing, I myself that is don't care how long
>you've been in this or any other news group, it's a public NG for people to
>voice there opinion, but you have tried to force yours on me, I have just
>tried to come up with ways to stop cheats, and from the word go you where
>aggressive in your post... and there was just no need for it.
Who wants to bet that Darkman doesn't have any mirrors in his house?
Darkman
Hay! guys,
If we want this to stop.... then send the site to the counterstrike team and
valve...and let them deal with it... and if you find any sites...with cheats
for 6.5 send them as well..they maybe able to have this guys webpage's shut
down..if we want this to stop then lets, get it stopped.
We all moan about cheats but what are we doing to stop it.....
This is your first post, in the first paragraph you state"sorry but in the
real world" as if I was in dream land, in your second paragraph you state
"so lets get this straight right now" kind of bossy and enforcing your view.
your fourth paragraph you tell me "to stop getting on my high horse when
someone disagrees with me" mustang had is point of view and did not like the
fact that I said someone's site could be shut down, I there for pointed out
that it sounded like he didn't care about people cheating, and asked if he
cheated him self, to which I got no reply and asking a question of him his
not an insult, he could of replied and said no I don't cheat, but he didn't
now pass your post and read on.
Sorry but in the real world they aren't breaking any laws or technically
committing a crime against a person or a company and as it is the site is in
Denmark or there abouts I think (I assume this from the .de at the end,
could be Germany though) they would have to take some kind of legal action
and work through international treaties and legal technicalities.
So lets just get this straight right now there is nothing the CS team can do
about that site or any other cheat sites being up, okay, so let it go, think
of more realistic ways to foil the cheaters efforts, post em here and we
will all gladly agree/disagree but in the end if you don't have at least a
half decent solution quite frankly people here will tell you so!
The CS guys ain't Time/Warner or Lucasarts who will jump at the merest sniff
of copyright infringement or exploitation, all they can do is use their
brains and peoples suggestions to help them come up with a way to beat these
guys and minimize possible exploits or cheats.
Please stop jumping on your high horse everytime someone disagrees or comes
up with a reason why your ideas are not attractive to them, I stopped in the
post above as we could argue for a year or so on the privacy topic and never
get any closer to agreeing with each others positions, it was a pure opinion
thing so I let it be.
Cheating is shit and it sux but this is just a game dude, in a year we will
all be playing something else most probably and be suffering cheasters in
that too so don't get so worked up about it, its not like a lost tribe in
the jungles of South America is being wiped out or anything!!! ;)
Pilgrim
------------------------
Now my reply to your post was,and tell me where I insult you in this post.
as you seem to be seeing what you want to see. then carry on down.
--------------------------
First I'm not arguing just putting my opinion across, like everyone else
'
PilgriM <pilgrimN...@hisplace.net> wrote in message
news:3937...@pan.izone.net.au...
> Sorry but in the real world they aren't breaking any laws or technically
> committing a crime against a person or a company and as it is the site is
in
> Denmark or there abouts I think (I assume this from the .de at the end,
> could be Germany though) they would have to take some kind of legal action
> and work through international treaties and legal technicalities.
Second since when did I say they where breaking any law's, if I remember
rightly saying people have rights to play the game without cheats
>
> So lets just get this straight right now there is nothing the CS team can
do
> about that site or any other cheat sites being up, okay, so let it go,
think
> of more realistic ways to foil the cheaters efforts, post em here and we
> will all gladly agree/disagree but in the end if you don't have at least a
> half decent solution quite frankly people here will tell you so!
Have you contacted the counter-strike Team, to find out if there's nothing
they can do?
And what more relistic way to stop this then to get the cheat sites taken
down?
You can also say you don't like my suggestion, that's up to you. but instead
of shooting someone down for a suggestion, why don't you even try to come up
with a better one..at least I'm trying which is more than I can say for you.
>
> The CS guys ain't Time/Warner or Lucasarts who will jump at the merest
sniff
> of copyright infringement or exploitation, all they can do is use their
> brains and peoples suggestions to help them come up with a way to beat
these
> guys and minimize possible exploits or cheats.
My suggestion was a valid one, but if people shoot you down for this.. then
no one will bother to try and do anything.
>
> Please stop jumping on your high horse everytime someone disagrees or
comes
> up with a reason why your ideas are not attractive to them, I stopped in
the
> post above as we could argue for a year or so on the privacy topic and
never
> get any closer to agreeing with each others positions, it was a pure
opinion
> thing so I let it be.
I'm not on a high horse, and neither will I stop replying to people posts
with my own opinion if you don't like my opinion, then that for you to
decide, that what news groups are for.. discussion.
>
> Cheating is shit and it sux but this is just a game dude, in a year we
will
> all be playing something else most probably and be suffering cheasters in
> that too so don't get so worked up about it, its not like a lost tribe in
> the jungles of South America is being wiped out or anything!!! ;)
>
> PilgriM
You say cheating sux and it's just a game, well your right cheating sux and
yes it's just a game.. but I like to play the game as it was intended to be
played,.. and people cheating are taking away my right to play the game as
it was intended.
So if you feel the same..and don't like cheats then get something done about
it.... instead of trying to tell me what I should or should not be
saying....
And if people didn't disagree with each other, the world would be a boring
place to live.
But whats sad about your post is you agree that cheating sux, yet you try to
flame me for, trying to stop this cheating. But like I said you have your
opinion.
-----------------------------
where are the insults...you then stopped posting till I started a second
post. and this was my second post then read on after the post.
-------------
--
____________________
next came joel with,
then Grim Reaper with,
Grim Reaper
Then came my post,
DM........
my reply was,
Or do you use cheats yourself ?
And if enough people who want a cheat free game, complain and sent these
countries
as you can see in section 6.2.2 what it say's, I don't think I have to
repeat it.
This clause alone could have this guy site shut down, as he annoying a lot
of people and inconveniencing the counter-strike team and Valve and people
like me who want a cheat free game.
So as I said in my first post if people want these sites shut down then,
send them to Valve and the CS team, who I'm SURE will try and get them
removed, as they also will benefit from this.
Now tell me these site can't be removed or shut down if enough people
complain about them, because they can....
And this is a valid point, and another way to get cheating webpages stopped.
Darkman
P.s
From the replies you 3 posted, tells me you might use cheats and don't like
it when people tell you they hate it,
Or come up with ways to stop it.
I'm fighting for a game where people don't use cheats, and I'm sorry if your
offended by that.
But your days are numbered.
Darkman slowly fades in to the night, till the next time,
heheheheheheheehehe.
THE END.
---------------------------
Now the part where it says P.S read it again it say you might use cheats I
did not accuses you of using them, it says you might use them from the way
you defend these webpages. I think that that's a reasonable asumsion. now
lets go on.to your reply, one you talk for everyone in the group..what
give's you that right...I think people can talk for them self's..they don't
need you. and not only that this is not your opinion which you want to pass
on to me you are telling me how it is in the real world, and also by this
time I see no insults to you as a person, read on: past your post.....
------------
PilgriM
Now my reply was
---------------
Now I see a insult from my self, pat my self on the back, Listen if you
won't to be clever so can I, and as for the other people I insulted I think,
you'll find they started it, so GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT FIRST BEFORE ACCUSING
ME OF ANYTHING AND MY LAST INSULT COMMENT STILL STANDS. If you want me to be
reasonable with you then stop telling me what I can do and trying to force
your opinion on me, If you read my posts they are telling people what they
can do and pointing some facts out, I'm not telling them they have to do it,
not like you.
And I think I got my opinion across so I won't reply unless I have to.
Darkman
straight here as well, if you take a snippet out of a post you can make it
sound totally different and out of context, so read on so I can put you
right.
---------news:3939...@pan.izone.net.au...
> Okay lets get this straight, read your posts you were the one being
> agressive and abusive first, I criticised your idea and said I thought it
> wasen't a viable or well thought out option, you proceeded to abuse, put
> down and generally accused people of having a go at you when this was
never
> the case, truly can you not read English, the only time I got abusive was
in
> the end where you odviously made a nasty remark to me about talking out my
> ass so you are the aggressor here and in the wrong.
>
> a few quotes from your posts
>
> To Mustang: Or do you use cheats yourself ? ,>very nice just accused him
> of being a cheater
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand English very well thanks, my spelling may leave a lot to be
desired, but if you understand me then thats ok.
"Or do you use cheats yourself ?" well this is a question not an insult and
he did not reply so I take it he might do, "might do...does not mean he
does"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To k: But now I just think your sitting on your head and talking from
the
> other
> orifice, people who cheat don't have rights boy ,> accused him of talking
> out his ass and called him boy, which to a 30 year old is an insult
>
> To k again: Your the kind of person who knows how to sit on his head and
> talk out his
> arse.
> Trouble is m8 you seem to have the S**ts >,oh very nice he never abused
> you yet you had a go at him, so who started the flaming then, ahh I think
it
> was you.
>
> To k yet again: If I'm right then your just an 18 year old who likes to
> cheat and argue with
> people for the sake of it.
> and don't even know which name to use on game servers.
> other then that your not worth it! ,> oh look you just abused another
> person who didn't attack you personally, I think I'm onto something here!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Try again... this K guy well I know him from a previes argument, and have
since seen him do the same thing, to others on game servers, that he denide
he did to me. although he uses a differant name, he still replys to posts in
exactly the same way, and he is only 18 and He also discust using a cheat on
one of the servers. so thats why I said what I did, as the guy was only out
to cause more problems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To abritto1: And it seems I'm wasting my time trying to help. It's also
up
> to you people
> not just valve and the CS team, to try and stop them, ...but no your
> wrong... is all I get, and sarcastic remarks from people who don't like
> cheats and try to flame me, well all I can say is stuff the lot of you,
and
> you deserve everything you get. ,>at this point you have developed a
> strange delusion that it wasen't you that had been insulting people all
> along when the truth was no-one did, we all disagreed with you about your
> idea and provided reasons why and you never once produced anything but a
> shallow badly thought out opinion!
>
> In an inane attempt to justify your position you wrote the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry but my other post shows things how they really where, and I did
not insult this guy just used his post to say what I had to say, and there
you go again, is this your opinion or everyones, let others talk for them
selfs and stop assumming that what you think is what everyone thinks. And by
the way who is throwing the insults about? I only insult when I really need
to. and that just brings me down to your level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
And now that fortresscheats is down, I think congratulations to the guys
that made this happen, And I wasn't one of them.
But a least what I said in my very first post can happen.........
DM..................
k
>Try again... this K guy well I know him from a previes argument, and have
>since seen him do the same thing, to others on game servers, that he denide
>he did to me. although he uses a differant name, he still replys to posts in
>exactly the same way, and he is only 18 and He also discust using a cheat on
>one of the servers. so thats why I said what I did, as the guy was only out
>to cause more problems.
dude, i'm not going to respond to your article because you didn't make
any valid points. i _am_ goint to respond to this, however. check
dejanews (www.deja.com), and do a search on me, and you'll notice that
i am only one person, and that i only use one name, and that if someone
isn't being stupid, i give them all the help i can. first you accuse
_me_ of being an asshole, and now you try to spread lies about me? grow
up.
--
The beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to
the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth.
Pierre Abelard (1079-1142)
Darkman
agreements and so on you have your point of view I have my point of view,
and if you are who you say you are, then I apologies for saying otherwise, I
know when I'm wrong.
And I was not being stupid, and you was not helping.
Let agree to differ.
DM..........
At least I know when I'm wrong! and will say so.
Not like most people.
k <gu...@guito.dhs.org> wrote in message
news:slrn8jl4h4...@cr185313-a.pr1.on.wave.home.com...
Ed Chauvin IV
>This is my first post, what is aggressive about this post.
I'll tell you what's aggressive. You posting 500+ line posts and making
absolutely no sense most of the time.
Here's the basic issues, feel free to attack them or me, I'll leave that
decision up to you:
[1]: Cheating. Should it be allowed?
[2]: Free speech. Is it more important than preventing cheating?
I think everyone agrees that the answer to 1, is 'No.' The major point of
contention seems to be that you think 2 is less important than 1, while everyone
else who's engaged in this discussion disagrees with that point.
Let me state my opinions on this clearly. I would kill and/or die to ensure
that my children grow up in a free world. I might go so far as to send an email
message to someone to help prevent cheating in a silly video game.
Ed Chauvin IV
>I think I've already posted about this, but I need to set the record
>straight here as well, if you take a snippet out of a post you can make it
>sound totally different and out of context, so read on so I can put you
>right.
>---------
>PilgriM <pilgrimN...@hisplace.net> wrote in message
>news:3939...@pan.izone.net.au...
>> Okay lets get this straight, read your posts you were the one being
>> agressive and abusive first, I criticised your idea and said I thought it
>> wasen't a viable or well thought out option, you proceeded to abuse, put
>> down and generally accused people of having a go at you when this was
>never
>> the case, truly can you not read English, the only time I got abusive was
>in
>> the end where you odviously made a nasty remark to me about talking out my
>> ass so you are the aggressor here and in the wrong.
>>
>> a few quotes from your posts
>>
>> To Mustang: Or do you use cheats yourself ? ,>very nice just accused him
>> of being a cheater
>>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>I understand English very well thanks, my spelling may leave a lot to be
>desired, but if you understand me then thats ok.
>"Or do you use cheats yourself ?" well this is a question not an insult and
>he did not reply so I take it he might do, "might do...does not mean he
>does"
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, saying that it was a question and not an insult is rather fine and dandy,
but the fact of the matter is your question basically left Mustang the option of
being someone who either A: Does not care about cheats, or B: Cheats. That
makes your "question" a de facto insult since you are here using baiting tactics
to make your opponent look bad, rather than arguing the issue.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To k: But now I just think your sitting on your head and talking from
>the
>> other
>> orifice, people who cheat don't have rights boy ,> accused him of talking
>> out his ass and called him boy, which to a 30 year old is an insult
>>
>> To k again: Your the kind of person who knows how to sit on his head and
>> talk out his
>> arse.
>> Trouble is m8 you seem to have the S**ts >,oh very nice he never abused
>> you yet you had a go at him, so who started the flaming then, ahh I think
>it
>> was you.
>>
>> To k yet again: If I'm right then your just an 18 year old who likes to
>> cheat and argue with
>> people for the sake of it.
>> and don't even know which name to use on game servers.
>> other then that your not worth it! ,> oh look you just abused another
>> person who didn't attack you personally, I think I'm onto something here!
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>Try again... this K guy well I know him from a previes argument, and have
>since seen him do the same thing, to others on game servers, that he denide
>he did to me. although he uses a differant name, he still replys to posts in
>exactly the same way, and he is only 18 and He also discust using a cheat on
>one of the servers. so thats why I said what I did, as the guy was only out
>to cause more problems.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> To abritto1: And it seems I'm wasting my time trying to help. It's also
>up
>> to you people
>> not just valve and the CS team, to try and stop them, ...but no your
>> wrong... is all I get, and sarcastic remarks from people who don't like
>> cheats and try to flame me, well all I can say is stuff the lot of you,
>and
>> you deserve everything you get. ,>at this point you have developed a
>> strange delusion that it wasen't you that had been insulting people all
>> along when the truth was no-one did, we all disagreed with you about your
>> idea and provided reasons why and you never once produced anything but a
>> shallow badly thought out opinion!
>>
>> In an inane attempt to justify your position you wrote the following:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I'm sorry but my other post shows things how they really where, and I did
>not insult this guy just used his post to say what I had to say, and there
>you go again, is this your opinion or everyones, let others talk for them
>selfs and stop assumming that what you think is what everyone thinks. And by
>the way who is throwing the insults about? I only insult when I really need
>to. and that just brings me down to your level.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the archives, you're the one who started the insults.
PilgriM
troll like in his ignorance!
PilgriM
Ed Chauvin IV <edc...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:gvpmjso78tvm1569d...@enews.newsguy.com...
> Unsubstantiated rumors have been circulating that Darkman has 553 toes.
>
> >This is my first post, what is aggressive about this post.
>
> I'll tell you what's aggressive. You posting 500+ line posts and making
> absolutely no sense most of the time.
>
>
>
> Here's the basic issues, feel free to attack them or me, I'll leave that
> decision up to you:
>
> [1]: Cheating. Should it be allowed?
>
> [2]: Free speech. Is it more important than preventing cheating?
>
>
>
> I think everyone agrees that the answer to 1, is 'No.' The major point of
> contention seems to be that you think 2 is less important than 1, while
everyone
> else who's engaged in this discussion disagrees with that point.
>
> Let me state my opinions on this clearly. I would kill and/or die to
ensure
> that my children grow up in a free world. I might go so far as to send an
email
> message to someone to help prevent cheating in a silly video game.
>
>
>
>
Darkman
Ed Chauvin IV <edc...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:gvpmjso78tvm1569d...@enews.newsguy.com...
> Unsubstantiated rumors have been circulating that Darkman has 553 toes.
>
>
> absolutely no sense most of the time.
That's your opinion, and replying to snippets of posts distorts the facts,
hence posting things as they should be, as a hole not a part.
Darkman
as a question, difference of opinion, and argumentative. and you should read
the post from the very first to get you facts straight one of these posts
show how it started, and who started the insults, I posted about 5 replies
before my first insult which in my opinion was valid if you don't like it
fine, we'll have to just disagree about it.
DM............
Ed Chauvin IV <edc...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:caqmjssq1ns4s6p79...@enews.newsguy.com...
Darkman
5 year old, and as always you get your band of merry men, in this group who
think they run it. We've seen all you flamer remarks and quite frankly you
are just pathetic, and the only people who are ignorant are yourselves, all
gob as they say where I come from.
You people get right up my goat, you think you can sit there and insult
people at the slightest thing and laugh about it to your friends at school
or if teenagers at the pub.
You think you know it all but in real life you haven't got a clue, wait till
you grow up yourselves and get into the real world, and as for the older
guys who do the same as these teenagers, well like the rest pathetic humans
who have nothing better to do than insult people, for fun.
And at least my insult was good and realistic.
This NG like you guys is a waste of time, so put me in your ignore files I
would be glad of it.
DM...........
F.P. Groeneveld
: If you read the halflife, tfc, and cs license agreements if you use cheats
: you loose the right to play the games.
I strongly disagree with shrinkwrap licenses. But even so, this does NOT
grant any right to have people take down websites with cheats on them.
Cheers,
Derk
F.P. Groeneveld
: You people get right up my goat,
Sorry, but I've just had a tough five minutes trying to stop laughing. Is
this actually an expression somewhere in the world? I mean, in Wales I
could imagine the same with 'sheep'? But goats?
*laugh*
And no, this is not meant as a personal attack, I just find the expression
funny.
Cheers,
Derk
Ghostwheel
Frombie
Most of us agree w/ you regarding cheating, IMO. It is your methods that I
question. Shutting down a site because you disagree with the content!? I hear
that the North Koreans, Fidel, and Red Chinese need some propaganda mavens.
Have some free time on your hands? Lobbying for people to not patronize these
sites I can see, but you have no right to say what other people can and cannot
put up on their sites, whether you like it or not.
k
>I strongly disagree with shrinkwrap licenses. But even so, this does NOT
>grant any right to have people take down websites with cheats on them.
i do as well, and i think they were recently shot down in the court in the
USA. not that either of us appear to be from the US, but when they do
something, the rest of the world usually follows.
--
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him
find it within himself.
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
PilgriM
PilgriM
Ghostwheel <ghost...@nospam.home.com> wrote in message
news:uXP_4.6658$Fe.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Pil, just killfile him--please?
>
>
PilgriM
PilgriM
Darkman <ne...@again.m8.ok> wrote in message
news:pWN_4.7231$p43.8...@news3.cableinet.net...
Ed Chauvin IV
>iSuck@CounterStrike <jk...@swbell.net> wrote:
>: If you read the halflife, tfc, and cs license agreements if you use cheats
>: you loose the right to play the games.
>
>I strongly disagree with shrinkwrap licenses. But even so, this does NOT
>grant any right to have people take down websites with cheats on them.
In any case, the license doesn't even say what iSuck@CounterStrike claimed.
Ed Chauvin IV
>He had the right to reply and did not, and you see it as an insult, I see it
>as a question, difference of opinion, and argumentative.
You said, "It seems to me that you don't care...Or do you use cheats yourself?"
I think it's pretty obvious to anyone reading that you are implying 2 mutually
exclusive choices, neither of which leaves the target looking good. You put
yourself on the moral high ground, and then suggest that anyone who disagrees
with your views is a cheater, or a cheat sympathizer.
>and you should read
>the post from the very first to get you facts straight one of these posts
>show how it started, and who started the insults
Here you make incorrect assumptions about what I have and have not read.
>, I posted about 5 replies
>before my first insult which in my opinion was valid if you don't like it
>fine, we'll have to just disagree about it.
It doesn't matter what my opinion is, in any debate the minute you begin
attacking your opponent, you've shown that you have no way of supporting your
argument.
Ed Chauvin IV
>> I'll tell you what's aggressive. You posting 500+ line posts and making
>> absolutely no sense most of the time.
>
>That's your opinion, and replying to snippets of posts distorts the facts,
>hence posting things as they should be, as a hole not a part.
"Replying to snippets of posts", not only doesn't distort the facts, it
accentuates them. I've never taken any of your statements out of context, and
besides anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could read the entire thread
on deja.com.
And exactly how does your gathering together bits of several posts and replying
to them en masse not distort the facts?
Ed Chauvin IV
>And at least my insult was good and realistic.
Well, that's it then. You must be right. How stupid of me to have thought that
free speech was more important than getting worked up over stupid cheats in a
silly video game. If only I'd known that it was the good and realistic insults
that defined a well reasoned articulate argument.
</sarcasm>
The-Q-Dog
You'd be depriving a new guest of rare entertainment if you start ignoring
him. Please don't... please!
--
SomsMachine
The Original Q-Dog
quill...@yahoo.com
ICQ 294570
****************************
"PilgriM" <pilgrimN...@hisplace.net> wrote in message
news:393c...@pan.izone.net.au...