Counter Strike Cheating
wallhack
Before that I played TFC.
What can I say, when I found it I fell in love
with the concept. The added realism when compared
to typical half-life mods.
The speed, the brutality of the weapons.
I enjoyed beta 2 all the way to beta 7.
Shortly after 1.0 was released, I stopped playing
because I was too busy. Months passed and I did
not play any counter strike, then finally after
what seemed like 6 months, I began to play again.
Counter Strike had exploded in popularity after
it went retail. After playing in the post-retail
environment one thing became clear to me.
Cheating was widespread.
I had encountered the occasional cheater in previous
betas. It was so rare people rarely bothered to
disguise it.
I am primarily talking about the wall cheat.
But wall hacking was pretty rare back in the day
and when people used it was obvious.
Fast forward to today. I consider myself a
pretty good player. I'm not in a clan but
I have routinely played on clan public servers and
worked my way into the top ranked slots
on the stat list. I am sometimes asked to be
in a clan.
In the Post-retail counter strike world, I see
many suspicious things. I can't tell you the number
of times I have rushed at a rate that usually catches
an enemy off guard and then as I come around that last
corner, get zipped instantly as if the guy had me lined up
before he made his last turn. This has happened quite
often, I've taken headshots the moment I come into view
of a moving enemy that shouldn't have an exact idea of
where my head is as I come out into the open.
When dead, I inspect player's actions. As I have done
for 6 betas. I am no newbie.
And here are some things I see a lot of recently.
I've watched player A chase player B through an
elaborate set of turns which present many alternate
wrong paths. Player A has no line of sight, yet
magically follows his prey without error.
I've seen people camp at one spot and cover an opening
and fire at the perfect (psychic) timing as the enemy
just comes into the clear, as if they saw them come
to that intersection. I've seen it, and been at the
receiving end.
I've seen people back away from corners in a hurry when
the enemy has thrown a grenade that they have no line
of sight on.
My frustration level with cheating peaked
recently. Cheating has ruined CS, and ruined its
integrity.
Its bad enough to have to play against cheating players
who have an awesome advantage, but its worse that you
have to listen to these imbeciles trash talk as if they
are skilled combatants.
I decided, rather than get pushed around, I would
go out, get this wall hack thing and see what it
was all about.
I have never in all my play time run a cheat until now.
Last night I found one, downloaded it, installed it.
It took about an hour to get things running
smoothly, then I entered a server.
After an hour of play, I was shocked. It is like
playing at another level. It is as though 50% of
the players are running a wall hack. You can see
them and they can see you, so you play an extra careful
game of cat and mouse around the *actual* lines of sight.
The one that the honest players are oblivious too.
The interesting thing about having the wall hack
is your ability to spot other people using the wall hack.
More than once I was shot at from behind a box and hit
where the enemy had no line of sight, no clue I should
be crossing. I shot back and killed them.
Do you think they would report me as a cheater?
Hell no. The 50% of the cheaters including me
stayed quiet. Its a code of silence, if you
gave all the details of how you know so-and-so
is a cheater you would reveal yourself as a cheater.
I had the opportunity to observe while dead,
players who use their mysterious tracking
ability; always turning down the correct path
in an effort to pursue the enemy from behind.
But also smart enough to add the false "hesitation
move" of pursuing down the wrong path, and always
righting themselves so that they come up behind
the enemy.
The ones who line up a shot behind a wall, strafing
out to get the instant kill, and then strafing back.
Even when the player beyond the wall changes his position,
since the wall hacker can see him the whole time he
calibrates for the change in position... and blamo.
You can see all this without the wall cheat but it is easier
to see when you have the same field of vision as the
wall cheater, then His slight turn left, or right or his
sudden decision to change position makes complete sense.
You, like he can see the enemy coming from a certain angle.
Its hard to spot this all at once without the wall hack.
With the wall hack, witnessing the synchronization of the
wall hacker's movements to his enemies is priceless.
I made some realizations.
Previously when I was not cheating, I would occasionally
see a guy camp at some spot with a good vantage
point on where the enemy should come into view.
Then I would see these players fire off two or three rounds
at a time, into the wall, seemingly at nothing.
I now believe that while in some cases it may be a complete
idiot playing, its more likely someone using the wall cheat
who is having trouble differentiating an obstructed view from
a clear sight path, so he prematurely fires before the player
is into the normal line of sight.
Another thing, I used to see people bump into
door frames, boxes, and think: what retards,
how can you not get through a door ?
Well now I know, people who have chronic problems
getting through door frames and bump into lots of
stuff... wall hack city.
The funniest thing was that, one of the guys
who shot at me from behind a box... who I knew
was wall hacking was discussing something with
someone while dead. Just as I died, I followed
the conversation, and he was agreeing with someone
else's claim that Player X is wall hacking (Player X
was not the real name). He basically said...
"yeah it looks like he is (cheating), we should
vote him off". Now they were not talking about me,
they were talking about some guy who had more kills
than me and a similar ratio. The hypocrisy was hilarious.
Cheaters, who would not go out of their way to accuse
others of cheating but would corroborate it.
Not one person accused me of cheating.
And my score ?
It was great, I was running near a 3-1 kill ratio.
Near the end my score looked like the same kind
of score those cocky trash talking jerks have.
and no wonder why. Its so easy when you cheat.
There I sat, in the #1 slot, with a few people
close in that grouping.
They were cheating as well.
It was as I suspected all those post-beta nights
that I was picked apart by cocky players with
great intuition of where I was to be at any moment.
Those front runners, were all cheaters.
After my experience of cheating last night
and the things I saw you can't convince me that
there is a dominating player in Counter Strike
who does not cheat in its current form.
I will not accept it.
Some wall cheaters happen to be good players,
some suck, its a natural distribution.
So I don't doubt that someone who cheats can be good.
Its just that I doubt someone who *dominates* is legit.
Cheating is real in Counter Strike, it is
wide spread. It has also ruined the game.
My suggestion to all players is, go out and
get the wall hack. Do a web search for
wall hack from yahoo which should be a start.
Then play on the level that *everyone* can play on.
It is the only way for things to be fair.
I know it sucks that people ruined the game
as it should be played but I personally would rather
use the cheat and operate without a disadvantage than
continue to get whipped under the *ILLUSION* of fairness.
I see a lot of people come down on cheaters in these
news groups. Recently there was a great article by some guy
describing how he uses the wall cheat and he even posted screen
captures of it in use.
It was a great eye opening post because it
destroys the MYTH of fairness.
Fairness doesn't exist in counter strike.
People who try to brow beat cheaters into
not cheating are wasting their energy, you
can't change human nature. What you can
change is your choice of game, and possibly
you can lobby valve to attempt to fix the problem
or encourage them not to utilize hackable
technology for their future games.
The solution to end this kind of cheating is to
apply pressure on the developer to get things right.
It is funny, I have seen computer gamers claim
that cheating is unethical. In my mind its not so
much a question of ethics. Cheating does ruin
the experience and I would prefer that it didn't exist
but I don't think cheating in a game is worse than say
listening to illegal mp3s which is something I am sure
9 out of 10 non-cheaters do. So don't posture to me.
A solution ?
I don't know what kind of API half-life mod developers
have to deal with. Maybe they are locked in to a certain
client/server protocol that disallows them from implementing
this fix, but I will describe the way I think it should work.
A server should not broadcast the positions of
any other player unless a line of sight exists.
If the server did that, the wall hack would not
exist, and the communication protocol would be
less chatty. The disadvantage is that it puts
more of a load onto the server, but it is a tiny
price and a huge benefit.
Line of sight in this case doesn't have to be
exact. A solution like this would end the wall hack
or relegate its use to spotting enemies only a split
second before they come around a corner and prevent
effective tracking. If done properly it would
also negate the effect of spiked models.
DesertEgl.50
get wall hack..
I heard that wallhack would not work if valve update their client.dll
files..
The solution for now I would say play on PB servers. It wont filter
all cheaters out, but the vast majority.
I dont believe all cheaters would go so far as to find a cheat that
works with PB, when they can find one that works
without it in much less time (altho i could be wrong who knowS??).
wallhack <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
Thomas Wana
instead of whining around for hours and suggesting
every player to cheat, consider punkbuster! It will not
stop every cheater, but I think it will stop those simple
script kiddies that just enter "wall hack" into google
and download the cheats (sounds familiar?). Those are
far more than 90 % of all cheaters.
kind regards,
Thomas
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
larry
cheaters!" posts usually seen here. I agree almost 100% with you. However,
I believe in using real names of players. There's this guy named Orange
Crayon (part of the crayon clan), who until sometime last week sucked pretty
bad. When I say sucked I mean he either maintained a 1:1 ratio or worse.
This week is a whole different story. Now he dominates almost every map.
Is this the result of hard practice? I highly doubt it in the course of 7
days. You'll see him most often on Not-The-Heap's servers. He's only one
of a few who I have serious doubts about their playing skills.
Check out the server sometime 169.207.1.73
You'll see some amazing shit going down. And no, I'm no newbie either.
I've been playing since beta 3.
Rodney Tomlinson
I started playing CS bout a month ago with great enthusiasm. But, it didnt
take long to discover that cheating was real issue with a lot of
players....sad but true.
Since I've had CS, I've played around 5 hours. There is no sport in it, if
you will. So now I only play TFC with all the kids. Cheating isnt as
widespread with TFC, but its still there.
Regards,
Rodney
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
RayLePovMec
makes it no longer interesting. Really... whats the point? Some mention
using PunkBuster. I would also suggest to play with friends who you know
don't cheat. If I play on an arbitrary server which has players possibly
cheating, and if I have no fun anymore because being killed systematically,
then I just leave and do something else. At some point, the game will die by
itself because the creator did not address the issue. So be it, I'm sure
another great game will come out at some point, which will address the
cheating issue.
Maybe you should tell us your player name, so we can avoid playing on the
same server as you.
Ber[nie] Doherty
--
----------------
Ham and eggs for breakfast requires CONTRIBUTION
from the chicken but COMMITMENT from the pig.
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
> I have been playing counter-strike since beta 2.
> Before that I played TFC.
>
> What can I say, when I found it I fell in love
> with the concept. The added realism when compared
> to typical half-life mods.
> The speed, the brutality of the weapons.
>
> I enjoyed beta 2 all the way to beta 7.
> Shortly after 1.0 was released, I stopped playing
> because I was too busy. Months passed and I did
> not play any counter strike, then finally after
> what seemed like 6 months, I began to play again.
>
> Counter Strike had exploded in popularity after
> it went retail. After playing in the post-retail
> environment one thing became clear to me.
>
duality
but because of the popularity of the game it's more noticeable.
I don't have nearly as much trouble dealing with these aimbot/wallhack
cheaters as you do. I have MUCH more trouble from what I believe are
just truly GOOD players - they're in a different league from me and
that's what I'll tell them as I leave.
First, aim for PB servers. Then just watch for ridiculous ratios,
follow them, and see if they track walls - pretty obvious really. At
that point if they can't be kicked I'll simply find another server.
CS scoring needs to change also. Kills are relatively unimportant in a
team game so people shouldn't be rewarded just for a lot of them.
jlrogers
hacks and cheats. Nearly all the dominating players in quake, quakeworld,
quake II and quake III, today, are cheaters. Wall hacks, aim bots, speed
hacks are rampant. And it doesn't take a half-life expert to spot the
cheaters. My experience with quake, et. al. made it easy to spot the
cheaters in half-life. My guess is a third or more are cheating (at least
on the servers I can play).
At least in quakeworld there are some servers with their own game exe's
where no one can cheat (at least yet). Whenever I challenge a cheater to
meet me at one of the cheat-free servers, they decline.
Yes, they ruin the game. "all's fair in love and war." And games, to hear
them tell it.
Are you aware that there are cheat video drivers for some cards? They
figured cheat drivers would enhance their sales.
--
jlrogers┊
Eschew Obfuscation.
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
wallhack
"RayLePovMec" <raymon...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:2jh97.8674$Vp3.6...@weber.videotron.net...
> Suggesting to cheat is not the solution. Playing that game while cheating
> makes it no longer interesting. Really... whats the point? Some mention
> using PunkBuster.
Punkbuster seemed like a good idea when I first heard of it.
Punkbuster is run far too infrequently have an impact.
Also, I've been on PB servers where compliance is optional.
But thats a good point, one must wonder:
If PB is the closest thing there is to a solution why is it so unpopular ?
It seems like maybe 5 of my top 100 servers (lowest ping) are
running PB, and maybe 2 of those five make complaince optional.
I am also skeptical that punkbuster really fixes the problem.
Punkbuster detects known cheats, like a virus scanner detects
known virii. It fixes the local problem but not the systemic problem.
A real fix has to come from valve. So far they have not
either due to indifference or technological limitations.
> I would also suggest to play with friends who you know
> don't cheat. If I play on an arbitrary server which has players possibly
> cheating, and if I have no fun anymore because being killed
systematically,
> then I just leave and do something else. At some point, the game will die
by
> itself because the creator did not address the issue. So be it, I'm sure
> another great game will come out at some point, which will address the
> cheating issue.
>
> Maybe you should tell us your player name, so we can avoid playing on the
> same server as you.
Player.
But seriously, If you could detect cheaters, and refused to play on a
servers
hosting them you simply would not be playing counter strike.
My personal solution is to look for a new game/mod.
Planetside is a bit far off, but it looks like it can be good.
CaptFarrell
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
I can see this will take a while...
(I'll try and be kind :o)
cheat hysteria strikes again...
<intro snipped>
> Cheating was widespread.
>
not really, cheating hysteria has become wide spread
> I had encountered the occasional cheater in previous
> betas. It was so rare people rarely bothered to
> disguise it.
>
it's still quite rare, but because there are more players, there will be
more people cheating, but it's still roughly the same percentage of bad
apples spoiling the barrel
> I am primarily talking about the wall cheat.
>
ah..the openGL hack...
> But wall hacking was pretty rare back in the day
> and when people used it was obvious.
>
it still is obvious - many people accuse people of wall hacking when they
are definitely not
let's go through your examples, shall we...
> In the Post-retail counter strike world, I see
> many suspicious things. I can't tell you the number
> of times I have rushed at a rate that usually catches
first flaw...rushing
guess what running/rushing does?
*thump* *thump* *thump*
you ain't hiding the sound of your clod-hoppers when you're running like a
loonie...
> an enemy off guard and then as I come around that last
> corner, get zipped instantly as if the guy had me lined up
> before he made his last turn.
picture the scene...
a guy sitting in front of his computer, wearing a pair of earphones
he knows this map so well, he can run/walk about it blind folded.
This time, he sitting in a known spot for rushers (perhaps he's watched you
while dead and knows where you're going to go?)
he hears the familiar sound *thump* *thump* *thump*
it's getting louder, then, just as it gets to the recognised volume, he
let's rip...
look what's happened - you've jumped round that corner right in to his
waiting gun fire...
> This has happened quite
> often, I've taken headshots the moment I come into view
> of a moving enemy that shouldn't have an exact idea of
> where my head is as I come out into the open.
>
a couple of possibilities:
a number of guns recoil up, you get shot in the stomach and the recoil makes
the final shot hit your napper....
the experienced player will be listening (see above) and can tell if you're
just running or jumping about, and have a very good idea of where they
should be aiming...
> I've watched player A chase player B through an
> elaborate set of turns which present many alternate
> wrong paths. Player A has no line of sight, yet
> magically follows his prey without error.
>
give an example please...
> I've seen people camp at one spot and cover an opening
> and fire at the perfect (psychic) timing as the enemy
> just comes into the clear, as if they saw them come
> to that intersection. I've seen it, and been at the
> receiving end.
>
1 word....ping
I'm killed quite often before I get round a corner - I don't blame it on
wall hacks or what ever - I just scream at my crap modem
why?
The other player saw me before I saw him - that's client side prediction,
baby...
his computer has predicted I will be there before I am, and because his
computer registered me as dead, I am.
In the same way, a player with a very low ping may have stopped just before
he reached the corner, but my crappy 56k modem doesn't get the packet(s)
which tell me he's done this. I see him run round the corner and manage to
crack off that lethal shot. suddenly, I get the packet informing me where
he actually is, but my computer's already told the server he's
dead...so...he's dies and if unexperienced, accuses me of wall hacking...
(see the point?)
> I've seen people back away from corners in a hurry when
> the enemy has thrown a grenade that they have no line
> of sight on.
>
experience...remember, you do learn how people like to play maps...and some
people have no imagination...
or, have you heard of programs like Roger Wilco? Maybe he's talking with
someone who CAN see that grenade getting thrown....
> My frustration level with cheating peaked
> recently. Cheating has ruined CS, and ruined its
> integrity.
>
I've stopped playing CS a lot because of cheating
not because it's in use, but because people have begun to use it as an
excuse for their own lack of skill (or even just bad luck)
You have an extremely good game going on - players are just lining
themselves up for you - and guess what happens? "CHAET0R!!!!" "GHEY FEGGOT!"
"AIM BOT HOORE!!" [1]
> I decided, rather than get pushed around, I would
> go out, get this wall hack thing and see what it
> was all about.
>
bbzzzzzzzztttt
mistake number 2
> I have never in all my play time run a cheat until now.
>
I have...but never on a public server, only on LAN games with bots[2]
Why have I done this?
because it helps to know how you use a cheat to spot the actual cheaters
<snip your decent into the dark side>
> Previously when I was not cheating, I would occasionally
> see a guy camp at some spot with a good vantage
> point on where the enemy should come into view.
>
> Then I would see these players fire off two or three rounds
> at a time, into the wall, seemingly at nothing.
>
did they kill anything?
even if they did, you must remember that section I said earlier
summed up, it's "experienced player learns to listen for tell tales sounds"
Also, they may just be firing at random in t hope there IS someone sneaking
up
> Another thing, I used to see people bump into
> door frames, boxes, and think: what retards,
> how can you not get through a door ?
>
this is easily ping
I often suffer from the dreaded cl_flushentitypacket
I'll be running for a door, and suddenly everything stops...
a split second later[3], my connection will kick back in, and I'll find
myself flying into a door or wall.
occassionally, I'll actually find myself dead, because the server's not
heard me let go of the movement keys and just let me keep on running in the
direction I was going...
> Well now I know, people who have chronic problems
> getting through door frames and bump into lots of
> stuff... wall hack city.
>
see above
> The hypocrisy was hilarious.
>
you do realise that you are suffering from it too here?
You're complaining about how rife cheating is, but yet you are cheating
yourself...
> Cheaters, who would not go out of their way to accuse
> others of cheating but would corroborate it.
>
because it removes the blame from themselves...
> It was as I suspected all those post-beta nights
> that I was picked apart by cocky players with
> great intuition of where I was to be at any moment.
>
that's often all it is...intuition
> Those front runners, were all cheaters.
>
not true...not true at all...
> Some wall cheaters happen to be good players,
> some suck, its a natural distribution.
>
really good players will refuse to sink to the level of the cheater
they'd rather just move server (or, take a demo & a few screenies and inform
the admin later)
> So I don't doubt that someone who cheats can be good.
>
I do...by cheating, you've just proved to the world that you don't rate your
own skills and can't face losing...
> Its just that I doubt someone who *dominates* is legit.
>
oh, I've seen great players out there, and it's obvious that it IS skill...
or luck :o)
> Cheating is real in Counter Strike, it is
> wide spread. It has also ruined the game.
>
it is real
it's NOT wide spread
at a rough estimate (and I'm probably giving higher percentage than it
actually is) I'd say at most 1% cheat in some method
as I said before, cheat hysteria is what is ruining the game. its a sad
state of affairs that a program like punk buster has to exist...
> My suggestion to all players is, go out and
> get the wall hack. Do a web search for
> wall hack from yahoo which should be a start.
>
no
> Then play on the level that *everyone* can play on.
>
NO
> It is the only way for things to be fair.
>
GOD FSKING NO!!!!!
> I know it sucks that people ruined the game
> as it should be played but I personally would rather
> use the cheat and operate without a disadvantage than
> continue to get whipped under the *ILLUSION* of fairness.
>
I'd rather see their WON id's banned from every server possible...
> I see a lot of people come down on cheaters in these
> news groups. Recently there was a great article by some guy
> describing how he uses the wall cheat and he even posted screen
> captures of it in use.
>
can't say I recall it?
which newsgroup was this in?
> People who try to brow beat cheaters into
> not cheating are wasting their energy, you
> can't change human nature.
no, but you can ban them from playing in the server...
> What you can
> change is your choice of game,
why? I like Half-Life...
> and possibly
> you can lobby valve to attempt to fix the problem
> or encourage them not to utilize hackable
> technology for their future games.
>
it's not valve's fault for this - they have to work with a windows
environment, if you want to blame anyone, try M$
> The solution to end this kind of cheating is to
> apply pressure on the developer to get things right.
>
> It is funny, I have seen computer gamers claim
> that cheating is unethical. In my mind its not so
> much a question of ethics. Cheating does ruin
> the experience and I would prefer that it didn't exist
> but I don't think cheating in a game is worse than say
> listening to illegal mp3s which is something I am sure
> 9 out of 10 non-cheaters do. So don't posture to me.
>
ah, but listening to an mp3 doesn't spoil someone else's enjoyment of it
you ising a cheat in a game can and will spoil the honest player's fun
because they haven't got a hope in hell against cheating scum
> A solution ?
>
<snipped>
the half-life mods are made by editting 2 dlls (a server dll and a client
dll)
every single entity, player, sprite, etc is given to you when you play
at present, I am unsure if it's possible to prevent someone receiving the
where abouts of a player, etc unless they have line of site, but it's an
interesting theory and if it can be done, I will certainly try and implement
it in to TFHL....
as a final request
please, please, please remove this wall hack from your computer and try and
regain some of your diginity...
--
CaptFarrell
ICQ : available on request
Homepage : http://www.captfarrell.co.uk
HL Mod Site : http://www.tfhl.net
AGHL Geek Code:
78 M D T+ C- A+ Ca H+ K P S+ B Po* RGB+ I++ L3++++++ Sp- ICQ@
[1] spelling mistakes are intentional here...
[2] honest - I am telling the truth...
[3] if I'm lucky
CaptFarrell
> When I say sucked I mean he either maintained a 1:1 ratio or worse.
I'm usually happy if I've got a 1:1 ratio....
RayLePovMec
> every single entity, player, sprite, etc is given to you when you play
> at present, I am unsure if it's possible to prevent someone receiving the
> where abouts of a player, etc unless they have line of site, but it's an
> interesting theory and if it can be done, I will certainly try and
implement
> it in to TFHL....
I doubt this can be made (at least easily). Enemy positions are required to
render properly the sound they make - footsteps, reloads, coughs, etc - even
off-sight.
stinkbutt
<wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote:
>I've watched player A chase player B through an
>elaborate set of turns which present many alternate
>wrong paths. Player A has no line of sight, yet
>magically follows his prey without error.
>
>I've seen people camp at one spot and cover an opening
>and fire at the perfect (psychic) timing as the enemy
>just comes into the clear, as if they saw them come
>to that intersection. I've seen it, and been at the
>receiving end.
>
>I've seen people back away from corners in a hurry when
>the enemy has thrown a grenade that they have no line
>of sight on.
I have seen all the same things you have. The difference is, I just
don't care if people are cheating. I play on servers where admins are
present maybe half the time. If someone is blatantly cheating (score
of 70 - 2, only using handguns) they will get kicked and banned
eventually, i dont have to worry about it. I just want to play the
game.
>
>My frustration level with cheating peaked
>recently. Cheating has ruined CS, and ruined its
>integrity.
>
I still love cs, even with the amounts of cheaters these days. I may
have to switch to a different server, or I may have to call an admin,
but I never whine about it during the game. It is still possible to
have a good game at any time, you just have to be a little more
optomistic and reasonable.
*-Stinkbutt-*
-*-*0o0o0*-*-
-= Vicious =- VP
about it in the NEWS on our site:
www.viciouswebcreations.com/clan
If our information has helped you, let us
know by voting for us here:
http://www.needbackup.net/top100/main.php?id=11
_____________________________________
-= Vicious =- VP
- = Clan Vicious = -
www.viciouswebcreations.com/clan
Live Well. Die Well. No Mercy!
thevoid
now on will strive to oppose cheaters. I cannot say that valve has done
anything at all when it has come to cheaters - i mean heck - it took a third
party to come up with a decent anti-cheat program [yeah im talking about PB
:) ]
but there is hope at the end of the tunnel.
any of u tried The Opera? Its another mod for Half-Life. One that doesnt run
very well on my machine unfortunatly [pII 400]. If you have had ANY cheats
at all for Half-Life - Opera detects them and informs other players that you
may be/are cheating. I have been informed by my clan members that they have
seen ooodles of players who have cheats on their PC's. And one of our
players who had previously had the ViperG aimbot for an anti-cheat website
purpose, was also detected of cheats. So things are getting better.
I am also told that Tribes2 doesnt tolllerate cheating. If you are found to
be cheating you account number is blocked from all(?) or participating(?)
servers - so you cant play again.
This has been - perhaps - a hard lesson to be learnt - because it has ruined
a perfectly good game. But lets hope the future online games will take heed.
larry
Dean Lapinel
I sympathize with your frustrations. I too have been a long time (skilled)
player and I have found that aiming skills, short bursts and strategy
(especially strategy) is what kept me at par with the obvious cheats . In
the last month or two however I find myself having greater and greater
difficulty on many servers. Same thing....killed with head shot just as I
turn a corner. I am just about ready to quit.
Dean
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
Nash
He striked, he stroked... now he sides with the Wall Hackers.
How unfortunate... one less person that I can frag.
"Ber[nie] Doherty" <ban...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:0xh97.3472$lr2.7...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Nash
considering my lame 56k connection.
"CaptFarrell" <iain...@captfarrell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9k49js$2d34m$1...@ID-47035.news.dfncis.de...
Asnivor
news:9k49gu$1nh8u$1...@ID-47035.news.dfncis.de:
> I can see this will take a while...
> (I'll try and be kind :o)
> cheat hysteria strikes again...
Ahh, the voice of reason capt, but unfortunately, I'm rarely as kind as you
:)
> first flaw...rushing
> guess what running/rushing does?
> *thump* *thump* *thump*
> you ain't hiding the sound of your clod-hoppers when you're running
> like a loonie...
Damn straight. Yes, I can track people though walls. It's called a £120 EAX
enabled soundcard and a £80 pair of headphones, coupled with people too
stupid to use the walk button. The main problem with CS (and always has
been) is not the cheaters themselves, but the hysteria that the normal
everyday idiot player exibits. If I see someone using the teleport
bug/cheat, or another obvious form of cheating, I will ban them. But in my
experience, players that are accused of cheating, are usually just better
than the accuser. I've often been accused of cheating with a 20-7 ratio and
a 250 ping, because "I must be cheating to have a score like that with my
ping". I know, the intellect astounds me to. It's just ignorance, and
stupidity on the part of the average CS moron. But, thats the way life is
:)
--
___________________________________________________________________
Asnivor[AGHL]
(alt.games.half-life)
"Standing on the corner with nothing in your head
Shirt on your back and a gun in your pants
Thinking you're the man but you're only a stand in
Standing in line to be the next bad guy....."
___________________________________________________________________
WildStyle24_7
alt.games.half-life, and wallhack says to me...
>
> In the Post-retail counter strike world, I see
> many suspicious things.
>
I see dead people!
</whispers>
--
WildStyle24_7
"Solomon, one of David's sons, had 300 wives and 700 porcupines."
-Answer from a test on the Old & New Testament taken by elementary
school children.
Changlo
I truely believe that since CS went retail, sierra would be f#()&
stupid to not try to resolve the cheat issue.. Why would they want the
most popular online game to not be sold or to be returned because of
cheaters.. I hear in the next patch they are going to try to
counteract cheating.. We shall see.. But I believe they aren't giving
up.. If they resolved cheating.. CS sales would rise.. and they want
money..
and we want to play in a cheat free (at least wall hack and aimbot)
community..
I can handle the cheaters.. I just would like everyone to be on the
same level as gameplay, and it would be so great when they resolve the
cheats, to see the little newbies crying because they dont know how to
play the game worth a shit.
WildStyle24_7
alt.games.half-life, and jlrogers says to me...
> And it doesn't take a half-life expert to spot the
> cheaters.
>
/sacks all my cheating experts
--
"Except the idea of experts is, I feel, increasingly antithetical to
American ideas of how a country should be run."
--Charles A. Lieberman, as posted in AFU.
Lefty
BTW, there would be no newbies if everyone was using cheats, wall hack,
aimbot etc. That's just too big a mountain to climb for a beginner.
"CaptFarrell" <iain...@captfarrell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9k49js$2d34m$1...@ID-47035.news.dfncis.de...
Alastair Grant
to worry me in the early betas, they didn't seem to effect me. The only
one was the built in wall hack thing - which everybody started to use
just to speed up the fix for it.
I have downloaded and tried several cheats, ranging from simple assists
in the game, to full blown Wall Hacks, Lambert things, Unlimited Zooms.
As well as the notorious aim bot.
One thing I did notice was the few other people cheating, which did
shock me. I contemplated keeping it installed to help when being an
administrator in clan games - that way the cheats could be easily
identified. I decided against that because of the temptation of using
it normally.
One thing I have learnt is, most these cheats aren't as great as they
seem. If the cheater is trying to play without anybody noticing then
they will still not be able to top the best players.
I myself have beaten cheats on LAN - just to see if it could be done.
If there know there is a cheat, you just have to change your style of
play. LPB's can often get cheats, because you can bounce and move about
too quick for the aimbot, you can group with other players so the aimbot
is confused, you can also fool people into firing too early by
approching edges of walls at great speed then stopping dead just before
you come out.
If you are a LPB use your ping against the cheats, it's hard, but you
can do it. You can also play on servers that use PunkBuster, or have
regular adimns. The servers are extremely good. If you give them
evidence of cheating (demos, screen shots) then they will ban the person
in question. You are never going to get rid of cheating, but you can
make their lives difficult.
Of course, there is nothing stopping you from changing servers from cheats.
"DON'T PANIC"
Jason
DesertEgl.50 <cgo...@telocity.com> wrote in message
news:2Rg97.4670$Z2.32...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
Jason
CaptFarrell <iain...@captfarrell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9k49js$2d34m$1...@ID-47035.news.dfncis.de...
Jason
cheats, but it doesn't do anything for the XQZ2 or whatever it's called
hack. I have installed the cheat, played with it to find if PB will detect
it, nope. I get authenticated everytime(On PB required servers). And your
saying typing counterstrike cheats in yahoo won't find a non punkbuster
detectable cheat, that's bullshit, XQZ2 is the first match that comes up
most of the time. There is also the respawn/spec cheat that also doesn't get
detected. Hell I got a couple cheats just by asking a person who I thought
was cheating to email me a couple, he emailed them and told me his real
name, all I will say is he was a clan EMC member. Only thing we can do is
wait for valve to do something. You could easily get ride of the wall hack
by getting half life to check it's drivers everytime it starts, and to fix
the spec cheat just remove team changing during the game(or limit it to 1
change per round).
My 2 cents
CaptFarrell
news:9k4iad$2jn7v$1...@ID-22353.news.dfncis.de...
> If I see someone using the teleport
> bug/cheat
que?
don't think I've seen that...
Ook
play on a server that had it (that I know of, anyhow). I don't have it,
don't use it, and would never put it on my server....
"Jason" <jla...@midbc.com> wrote in message
news:tmbt68...@corp.supernews.com...
Sam Worf
>
>"RayLePovMec" <raymon...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
>news:2jh97.8674$Vp3.6...@weber.videotron.net...
>> Suggesting to cheat is not the solution. Playing that game while cheating
>> makes it no longer interesting. Really... whats the point? Some mention
>> using PunkBuster.
>
>Punkbuster seemed like a good idea when I first heard of it.
>
>Punkbuster is run far too infrequently have an impact.
>
>Also, I've been on PB servers where compliance is optional.
>
>But thats a good point, one must wonder:
>
>If PB is the closest thing there is to a solution why is it so unpopular ?
>
>It seems like maybe 5 of my top 100 servers (lowest ping) are
>running PB, and maybe 2 of those five make complaince optional.
Which scanner are you running? For me, Pingtool regularly finds
several dozen servers with <100ms pings, about 10% running mandatory
PB. 5-10 CS servers in my favorites list is more than enough for me.
>I am also skeptical that punkbuster really fixes the problem.
>
>Punkbuster detects known cheats, like a virus scanner detects
>known virii. It fixes the local problem but not the systemic problem.
Fine by me. There is no method that can solve the systemic problem of
house burglary, but that doesn't keep me from locking my doors at
night. I'd rather have an imperfect PB and fewer cheats than *no* PB
and cheaters running rampant.
>A real fix has to come from valve. So far they have not
>either due to indifference or technological limitations.
If by "real fix" you mean bulletproof code, don't hold your breath.
Valve has much better things to do than spend their time and money
chasing the impossible dream. (btw, I've heard many cheaters
rationalize their behavior by complaining that HL/TFC/CS is old and
boring - have you ever considered that maybe one of the reasons TF2
has been so long in coming is that Valve is trying to make it
unhackable? IOW, it could be OUT SOONER if it wasn't for the
cheaters!)
--
Remove spamblock to reply. // / Sam Worf
GCV 3.12 \X/ / samworf-AT-newsguy-DOT-com
GFA d- s-: a28 C+(+++)>$ UI(--) W+(-) N+ w+(--) M+(--) PS++
PE- Y+ t+(---) 5+++(-) X+ R tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G e++ !y+
Pure electric EV-1 / Accept no substitute!
---------------------------/-------------------------------
I thought the truth would matter,
I thought the truth would win;
While I was busy thinkin' They let the liars in...
Jason
> Valve has much better things to do than spend their time and money
> chasing the impossible dream. (btw, I've heard many cheaters
> rationalize their behavior by complaining that HL/TFC/CS is old and
> boring - have you ever considered that maybe one of the reasons TF2
> has been so long in coming is that Valve is trying to make it
> unhackable? IOW, it could be OUT SOONER if it wasn't for the
> cheaters!)
They haven't released TF2 because they want to get every penny out of half
life, gee Blue Shift took what, 2 weeks to produce? But a big profit
margarine....
Rourke
comes to life in :say mode. I tried PunkBuster but when I quit playing
CS for the night, assholes would try hacking into my computer with
lovely Back Orifice 'n stuff after, so I stopped BunkPuster. Cheating
back is bull-shit. It's like killing chickens in cs_italy. Outsmart
the little fookers. They don't live forever and eventually all the
noobs will wise up to all the headshots :)
On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:41:58 +0200, "Thomas Wana" <wana_cut@ycom_cut.at>
blasphemously regurgitated:
:Hi,
:
:instead of whining around for hours and suggesting
:every player to cheat, consider punkbuster! It will not
:stop every cheater, but I think it will stop those simple
:script kiddies that just enter "wall hack" into google
:and download the cheats (sounds familiar?). Those are
:far more than 90 % of all cheaters.
:
:kind regards,
: Thomas
:
:
Rourke
identify it's installed in the name for example. It's a pisser when you
log on and then find out later you need BumBuster and get booted out,
the fookin' thing. I also noticed weird kills on those PB servers but
nobody spoke up to those cheaters like it was sacraligeous or something.
Jeez get a grip with PB, it's garbola. IT's just a conspiracy to get
your IP to spam you later anyways :)
On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:25:40 -0700, "Ook"
<Ookbert@DieSpammerDie@HOTMAIL.com> blasphemously regurgitated:
:Punkbuster seems to be popular with a lot of server admins, but I've yet to
:> >
:> >
:>
:>
:
Ook
run into it?
"Ook" <Ookbert@DieSpammerDie@HOTMAIL.com> wrote in message
news:JNn97.688$YB3.3...@news.uswest.net...
Spyder Barques
Jason <jla...@REM0VEmidbc.com> wrote in message
news:tmc3iop...@corp.supernews.com...
stinkbutt
>All of you say Punkbuster Punkbuster Punkbuster, yea, it'll stop 3 month old
>cheats, but it doesn't do anything for the XQZ2 or whatever it's called
>hack. I have installed the cheat, played with it to find if PB will detect
>it, nope. I get authenticated everytime(On PB required servers). And your
>saying typing counterstrike cheats in yahoo won't find a non punkbuster
>detectable cheat, that's bullshit, XQZ2 is the first match that comes up
>most of the time. There is also the respawn/spec cheat that also doesn't get
>detected. Hell I got a couple cheats just by asking a person who I thought
>was cheating to email me a couple, he emailed them and told me his real
>name, all I will say is he was a clan EMC member. Only thing we can do is
>wait for valve to do something. You could easily get ride of the wall hack
>by getting half life to check it's drivers everytime it starts, and to fix
>the spec cheat just remove team changing during the game(or limit it to 1
>change per round).
>
I'll use PB when I have to. For now, none of my favorite servers use
it or show any signs of starting to. The XQZ2 is incredibly easy to
find, but I was under the impression it was detectable..? I dont
remember where i heard it tho.
*-Stinkbutt-*
-*-*0o0o0*-*-
PilgriM
the outcry was enormous so they quickly brought it back to frag based
scoring, basically I think the developers have accepted that it is now team
deathmatch & that they will never be able to rid the game of cheaters
completely,
Therefore any future development will not add or change the game to any
great extent except for the maps they include & I hope to hell they improve
on the last versions maps, Rotterdam was just way to big, the dam one was
also too big & extrememly unimaginative.
PilgriM
"duality" <Vi...@NOSPAM.usa.com> wrote in message
news:8c9bmtk0kvml8k1c8...@4ax.com...
> I think the _percentage_ of _potential_ cheaters is about the same,
> but because of the popularity of the game it's more noticeable.
>
> I don't have nearly as much trouble dealing with these aimbot/wallhack
> cheaters as you do. I have MUCH more trouble from what I believe are
> just truly GOOD players - they're in a different league from me and
> that's what I'll tell them as I leave.
>
> First, aim for PB servers. Then just watch for ridiculous ratios,
> follow them, and see if they track walls - pretty obvious really. At
> that point if they can't be kicked I'll simply find another server.
>
> CS scoring needs to change also. Kills are relatively unimportant in a
> team game so people shouldn't be rewarded just for a lot of them.
Kari Vatanen
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
> My suggestion to all players is, go out and
> get the wall hack. Do a web search for
> wall hack from yahoo which should be a start.
A very interesting post, but this quoted bit is something I completely
disagree on. "An Eye for an Eye" isn't very mature nor effective. Even if I
were the last person NOT to cheat, I wouldn't get wallhack "because everyone
else has already done it". It's not because of some Code of Honor or other
chivalrous crap. It's because getting that wallhack would ruin MY game. So
I'm being quite selfish as a matter of fact. Of course, I would never become
the last non-cheater since I would quit playing before that would happen.
Quitting was once very close. Remember what happened when the "speed cheat"
was working? In the end, a lot of people did just what you said. "Since
others have the speedhack, I must get it also to even things out." The
results were disastrous. It became impossible to play the game - for
cheaters and noncheaters alike. It wasn't exactly Counterstrike they were
playing anymore, but some other game where it's normal to run with
sub-lightspeed and kill half of the enemy team with your knife. At that
time, I wondered if the only chance was to get that cheat myself. But then I
thought about this "running at lightspeed"-thing and considered this option
to be downright boring. So I abandoned my favorite server(s) and/or quit
playing until the bug was fixed.
I personally think that "to do something because everyone else does it" is
the lamest excuse in the history of mankind. Ironically enough, I wouldn't
hesitate to cheat if my life depended on it. But as we are talking about a
game, in which the sole purpose is to have fun, there is no need to cheat -
because cheating equals to ruining the game (IMHO). There are countless
reasons just why people cheat, such as "gaining (false) respect with a 3:1
ratio" - but this is another topic.
The bottomline is, I'm not a herd animal. If the leader of a flock/herd of
sheep decides to run into a burning building, I will not follow everyone
else into the building and die of stupidity.
-KV
Lefty
Everytime I've been on a deathmatch server, it seems there are just nice
folks fraggin the hell outta each other, not cheatin :-)
"Ook" <Ookbert@DieSpammerDie@HOTMAIL.com> wrote in message
news:qXo97.737$YB3.4...@news.uswest.net...
[MMI]Half-Dead
I KNOW ppl cheat, but i wont go out and be like them.........
if i can get near the top ranks without cheating and even blast a cheater
every now n then, well im happy, cause that just proves cheating is
shit...and furthermore if i where to cheat i wouldt have the impression of
playing the game myself, but like just letting a stupid bot play it in my
place :(
[MMI]Half-Dead
Yes theres cheating, and theres even more paranoia from newcommers.
You say you played 5 hours...well ive played an av of 4h/day for the last
2years(sure im an adddict, but thats not the point here)...so how can you
even think youd be able to compete? No i dont cheat, and yes im aware of the
great advantage i have over newcommers...but the main issue is that
newcommers are always fast to accuse, when they have no tactikal knowledge
about what they are even doing.
wallhack? dont need it! stereo sound + radar is all i need to pinpoint
anybody within hearing limit thats not on my team....yeah, i guess you can
guess how often i get called a cheater :)
"Rodney Tomlinson" <rod...@naxs.net> wrote in message
news:s8h97.3848$C7.19...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
> Great Post!
>
> I started playing CS bout a month ago with great enthusiasm. But, it
didnt
> take long to discover that cheating was real issue with a lot of
> players....sad but true.
>
> Since I've had CS, I've played around 5 hours. There is no sport in it,
if
> you will. So now I only play TFC with all the kids. Cheating isnt as
> widespread with TFC, but its still there.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rodney
[MMI]Half-Dead
so whats better :
1. being open to catch all viruses
2. just taking the chance of rarely bumping into one
and if its like a virus scanner that doesnt detect them all....why dont you
stop using YOUR virus scanner?:)
--
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
news:gNh97.44380$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
>
> "RayLePovMec" <raymon...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:2jh97.8674$Vp3.6...@weber.videotron.net...
> > Suggesting to cheat is not the solution. Playing that game while
cheating
> > makes it no longer interesting. Really... whats the point? Some mention
> > using PunkBuster.
>
> Punkbuster seemed like a good idea when I first heard of it.
>
> Punkbuster is run far too infrequently have an impact.
>
> Also, I've been on PB servers where compliance is optional.
>
> But thats a good point, one must wonder:
>
> If PB is the closest thing there is to a solution why is it so unpopular ?
>
> It seems like maybe 5 of my top 100 servers (lowest ping) are
> running PB, and maybe 2 of those five make complaince optional.
>
> I am also skeptical that punkbuster really fixes the problem.
>
> Punkbuster detects known cheats, like a virus scanner detects
> known virii. It fixes the local problem but not the systemic problem.
>
> A real fix has to come from valve. So far they have not
> either due to indifference or technological limitations.
>
> > I would also suggest to play with friends who you know
> > don't cheat. If I play on an arbitrary server which has players possibly
> > cheating, and if I have no fun anymore because being killed
> systematically,
> > then I just leave and do something else. At some point, the game will
die
> by
> > itself because the creator did not address the issue. So be it, I'm sure
> > another great game will come out at some point, which will address the
> > cheating issue.
> >
> > Maybe you should tell us your player name, so we can avoid playing on
the
> > same server as you.
>
> Player.
>
> But seriously, If you could detect cheaters, and refused to play on a
> servers
> hosting them you simply would not be playing counter strike.
>
> My personal solution is to look for a new game/mod.
>
> Planetside is a bit far off, but it looks like it can be good.
>
>
>
Neil Jones
Alastair Grant <a...@for.it> wrote:
>one was the built in wall hack thing - which everybody started to use
>just to speed up the fix for it.
Yeah, right.
___
Neil
AKA HighVis
"You woke up this morning, you got yourself a gun"
TZ McBesty
"Rourke" <n...@here.com> wrote in message
news:oa6cmt4etr0l9so4u...@4ax.com...
> I used to play with PB and dammit I wish whatever servers do use it to
> identify it's installed in the name for example. It's a pisser when you
> log on and then find out later you need BumBuster and get booted out,
> the fookin' thing. I also noticed weird kills on those PB servers but
> nobody spoke up to those cheaters like it was sacraligeous or something.
> Jeez get a grip with PB, it's garbola. IT's just a conspiracy to get
> your IP to spam you later anyways :)
>
You can configure GameSpy to only show you servers that have PunkBuster
required. Those are the ONLY servers I will play on.
TZ
James Whyley
They're the type of people who cheat a patience.
wallhack
"[MMI]Half-Dead" <som...@onthe.net> wrote in message
news:9k651a$d22$1...@wanadoo.fr...
> yup....like a virus scanner...........
> so whats better :
> 1. being open to catch all viruses
> 2. just taking the chance of rarely bumping into one
>
> and if its like a virus scanner that doesnt detect them all....why dont
you
> stop using YOUR virus scanner?:)
I don't have a virus scanner.
Avoidance of viruses is much easier than
avoidance of cheaters.
CaptFarrell
> "CaptFarrell" <iain...@captfarrell.co.uk> wrote in message...
> > every single entity, player, sprite, etc is given to you when you play
> > at present, I am unsure if it's possible to prevent someone receiving
the
> > where abouts of a player, etc unless they have line of site, but it's an
> > interesting theory and if it can be done, I will certainly try and
> implement
> > it in to TFHL....
>
> I doubt this can be made (at least easily). Enemy positions are required
to
> render properly the sound they make - footsteps, reloads, coughs, etc -
even
> off-sight.
>
thinking about this a little, and it MAY be possible not to draw the
models...
whereas you will be told by the server where the player is, the client dll
just won't bother drawing them unless they can see you...
I may have a little ask in the wavelength coding forums...see if it is
possible...
CaptFarrell
news:T_w97.41331$vN4.2...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
> They're the type of people who cheat a patience.
>
:o)
Jethro[AGHL]
Jason wrote:
>
> All of you say Punkbuster Punkbuster Punkbuster, yea, it'll stop 3 month old
> cheats, but it doesn't do anything for the XQZ2 or whatever it's called
<snip>
Is that the respawn hack? I have seen it once and my brother once. A
player was able to respawn whenever they wanted.
He said by the end of the first round one player had 8 deaths. Every
time he was killed he just respawned.
I have seen even when an admin kicked a guy, he would come back and just
keep respawning. He was even able to change his name to another player
*exactly*. Not the same name with a (1) in front but have 2 players with
the exact same name. Then he started tking and pissing everyone off.
Then to retaliate you didn't know which player had done it since they
had the same name.
Then we moved to a PB server for a time.
Jethro
--
aka Jethro[AGHL] aka Phat_Pinger
AGHL '66 M D-- T+ C++ A-- Ca- H+ K+ S P- B++ Po+ RGB I-- L3- Sp-
(http://www.iphi.com/games/geekcode.html)
James Whyley
> "James Whyley" <lo...@me.dance> wrote in message
> news:T_w97.41331$vN4.2...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
> > They're the type of people who cheat a patience.
> >
> don't you?
> :o)
....No comment
[GSBB]What
Ive never cheated ever!!.... im currently in the top 90,000 in the WORLD!!
www.csports.net i constantly come in the top 2 or 3 in any game in any
server im not special im just good at computer games. theres lots like
me..all cheats according to you...i dont care about cheats i can woop there
assess any day i even got to killing speed cheats...they hated that!! they
accused me of cheating because i was killing them all the time...you just
have to adapt a different approach as in real life if a t first 'n all that
as for you GRERAT "nearly 3 fa 1 ratio....Hmmmmmmm tell me ya good at 10
fa 1s. and as for all the people who cheat....bring it on...its just a
game!! and for the people who get wound up and start sreaming all sorts of
shit LOL!!!!!! .relax guys..plat da game...its fucking great fun!!!
[GSBB]What
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
David Rambo
"Jethro[AGHL]" <jet...@agqx.org> wrote in message
news:3B66DBAC...@agqx.org...
>
>
> Jason wrote:
> >
> > All of you say Punkbuster Punkbuster Punkbuster, yea, it'll stop 3 month
old
> > cheats, but it doesn't do anything for the XQZ2 or whatever it's called
>
> <snip>
>
> Is that the respawn hack? I have seen it once and my brother once.
You have only ever seen your brother once?
Jason
[GSBB]What <pips...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JZE97.14611$ip4.4...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Daniel
David Rambo wrote:
>You have only ever seen your brother once?
They aren't a very close family. No need to bring it up, makes poor Jethro feel
bad.
Jethro[AGHL]
Well he's phat and ugly so I don't like to see him much. :-)
wallhack
> "wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
> news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
>
> (I'll try and be kind :o)
> cheat hysteria strikes again...
>
> <intro snipped>
>
> > Cheating was widespread.
> >
> not really, cheating hysteria has become wide spread
You are in denial.
Cheating is wide spread, just examine the replies to my original post.
A great number of rational and experienced counter strike players
are in general agreement with my observations (Yet not with my
conclusion).
> > I had encountered the occasional cheater in previous
> > betas. It was so rare people rarely bothered to
> > disguise it.
> >
> it's still quite rare, but because there are more players, there will be
> more people cheating, but it's still roughly the same percentage of bad
> apples spoiling the barrel
Not even close.
What beta did you start playing at again ?
<snip captain camper training manual pep talk>
> picture the scene...
> a guy sitting in front of his computer, wearing a pair of earphones
> he knows this map so well, he can run/walk about it blind folded.
> This time, he sitting in a known spot for rushers (perhaps he's watched
you
> while dead and knows where you're going to go?)
> he hears the familiar sound *thump* *thump* *thump*
> it's getting louder, then, just as it gets to the recognised volume, he
> let's rip...
> look what's happened - you've jumped round that corner right in to his
> waiting gun fire...
Let me get this straight you are equating the ability for someone to hear
footsteps, or even to perceive the direction of the enemy with instant
kill capability as they come into the open.
You are making too great a leap.
Remember, the situation I described is a rushing situation. Rushers
have a good idea of where the point of contact is going to be. So there
is no surprise in knowing where the enemy is.
Your theory about hearing the enemy isn't relevant because no one
is slowing down to listen in this scenario and also because good
rushers can judge within about ten feet the point of contact with
the enemy based on the speed of their rush and the quality of the
enemy team's rushers. In other words absolute surprise isn't a factor.
Hearing is a great tool but its not exactly the
missile guidance system you make it out to be.
> > This has happened quite
> > often, I've taken headshots the moment I come into view
> > of a moving enemy that shouldn't have an exact idea of
> > where my head is as I come out into the open.
> >
> a couple of possibilities:
> a number of guns recoil up, you get shot in the stomach and the recoil
makes
> the final shot hit your napper....
We arn't talking about wild sprays. We are talking about
an instantaneous kill the moment ... not seconds...)
*The moment you establish LOS*
Some of the time it is ok. I acknowledge that sometimes it can happen
and be legit, and I have gotten my share of surprises. What you
are failing to realize is that I am not a newbie and have logged
probably over a 1000 hours of counter strike time.
What you are failing to address is the trend I am experiencing
*ONLY AFTER CS WENT RETAIL*
Comprende ?
This is the same trend that other experienced players
have noticed, and even posted general agreement with me.
> the experienced player will be listening (see above) and can tell if
you're
> just running or jumping about, and have a very good idea of where they
> should be aiming...
I am an experienced player.
But how can you say you are an experienced player and talk like this.
Maybe you don't rush so you can't paint a realistic picture.
When rushers approach each other from both sides
a few factors exist.
- The rusher knows that he will make contact with the enemy so
there is no total surprise factor. The only X factor is
*exactly when* contact occurs.
- Rushers want to get the farthest along, in the fastest amount
of time. There is no time to stop, and listen, and calibrate.
You are on the go and when on the move, especially with teammates
it's hard to hear enemy footsteps. Your first indication of where
the enemy is, is more likely an enemy flashbang or grenade
that explodes in front of you or whizzes past you rather than
the footsteps of an enemy.
- Good rushers like myself and many others can determine
the timing of the when they contact the enemy based on
a few factors. So a good rusher, who is on the ball,
can have an excellent idea of when the contact will occur
but that still does not translate into knowing the exact position
and trajectory of the enemy which makes for an easy
and quick kill.
What this boils down to is that knowing the general proximity
of the enemy is not an issue. They know in general where I am,
and I know in general where they are, and when we do come around
that last turn, someone is gonna die.
The trend throughout beta 2 to 7 and a little bit into retail 1.0
was that sometimes I rip past the enemy and kill 2 or 3 which
causes havoc. Sometimes I get dropped in a millisecond. Sometimes
its a chaotic mess (which I love), people are shooting, hitting
and missing everywhere and eventually you get taken down.
But what I experience now, on some servers with some people,
is an instantaneous kill as I round that last corner, putting
the instant death occurrence at about 90% of the cases.
I know, that when a guy is consistently dropping me like
that, he has an advantage to know *EXACTLY* where I am.
Your newbie camp tutorial does not apply to the situation.
If you don't rush, why did you chime in about it ?
I am specifically talking about de_dust.
I was describing a situation I experienced
as I was a terrorist.
If you are a T and rush the first bomb site, as you approach
the bomb site to your right is a small entry way that rushing CTs
who are bold will often storm through.
That corner right there is the one I am talking about.
Sometimes, I go straight to the bomb site, other times I turn
down that path to go head to head with CTs.
If CTs choose to slow down as they approach they
Have no chance to stop fast terrorists from acquiring
the bombsite.
So what I am saying is: in practice when CTs slow down
to listen on dust, and you have a team of Ts with a 50+
average IQ, they will occupy the bombsite early and win
every time.
So much for slowing down to listen.
> > I've watched player A chase player B through an
> > elaborate set of turns which present many alternate
> > wrong paths. Player A has no line of sight, yet
> > magically follows his prey without error.
> >
> give an example please...
As the result of some brief skirmish, player B decides to
flee, so he runs away, while player A is in cover. Player A
pursues, but when presented with a choice of going left or
right he always selects the correct path to come up upon
player B from behind.
This may be hard to see without running the wall hack.
If you can see through the walls you can see that player
A is reacting to the path that he sees player B take.
This kind of thing may also happen without any
line of sight established, player A may simply
be jogging along and spot B through a wall.
The decision of player A to all the sudden
advance west (beginning his pursuit) is meaningless
to honest players without the wall hack, but to
someone evil like me who is employing wall hack technology
it is obvious what is happening.
It was also comical that when witnessing this kind of stuff
for the first time I had to think of myself as previously naive.
> > I've seen people camp at one spot and cover an opening
> > and fire at the perfect (psychic) timing as the enemy
> > just comes into the clear, as if they saw them come
> > to that intersection. I've seen it, and been at the
> > receiving end.
> >
> 1 word....ping
<snippage>
I factor ping into my judgement.
On the servers I play on I get about 20-50 ping.
I'm comfortable around 30.
I am located in North East USA in a very densely
populated region. Its not uncommon at all to
get onto good servers here where the average
ping of players is around 20-50. Sometimes lower
sometimes higher.
> I'm killed quite often before I get round a corner - I don't blame it on
> wall hacks or what ever - I just scream at my crap modem
> why?
Understand, in a great majority of these scenarios I am describing
including the one above I am a 3rd party.
Its nothing personal.
I spot cheaters on my own team often.
> The other player saw me before I saw him - that's client side prediction,
Your theory breaks down when the two players have nearly equivalent pings
which is the case in the majority of the events I am witnessing.
> baby...
> his computer has predicted I will be there before I am, and because his
> computer registered me as dead, I am.
> In the same way, a player with a very low ping may have stopped just
before
> he reached the corner, but my crappy 56k modem doesn't get the packet(s)
> which tell me he's done this. I see him run round the corner and manage
to
> crack off that lethal shot. suddenly, I get the packet informing me where
> he actually is, but my computer's already told the server he's
> dead...so...he's dies and if unexperienced, accuses me of wall hacking...
> (see the point?)
The kind of thing you are describing is well known.
I have often as an HPB (in the old days) strafe out into an opening
and hesitate for a moment, then strafe back, and get killed while
behind cover which was actually me being shot when I hesitated
out in the clear. I can differentiate between bullets that go around
corners :) and wall hacking.
The majority of the "psychic trigger" cases I have witnessed
are when I am dead and observing a suspicious character.
Its even better when the psychic camper wants to cover two
entry ways, he jogs back and forth between the two, but when
the challenger finally arrives he always seems to be waiting
for him :)
I am telling you, get the wall hack, then watch that guy react
as the poor sap comes running down the hall.
It is a priceless moment.
> > I've seen people back away from corners in a hurry when
> > the enemy has thrown a grenade that they have no line
> > of sight on.
> >
> experience...remember, you do learn how people like to play maps...and
some
> people have no imagination...
First off, drop the insults and the condescending tone.
God forbid someone come along and pop your big fantasy bubble.
Will you please deal with reality.
Never mind that you play games to escape reality,
cheating is widespread in counter strike, and just because
you are incapable of seeing it, does not make everyone else
who does see it an idiot. On the contrary I would think.
I am willing to bet I have easily logged more CS time than you
and from the "newbie training manual" sound of your advice it
sounds like your ego is out of whack.
> or, have you heard of programs like Roger Wilco? Maybe he's talking with
> someone who CAN see that grenade getting thrown....
Forget it.
I frequently witness the old "spider sense back off"
without any player of the same team having LOS
on the grenade thrower.
Since I spoke of dust earlier, its not uncommon for the Ts
to hold the center hallway, and throw grenades down
one of the two closest exit alleys on the CT side.
In my counter strike experience, CTs that expose themselves
for too long in those alleys will get shot at and killed, so
typically CTs strafe in, shoot a little, strafe out.
Every so often a T will, with no line of sight on the
ally chuck a grenade that bounces off a wall and
out into the door way where the CTs are gun fighting from.
There is no way a CT can establish LOS on the T who
throws the grenade unless he, like I can see through walls.
Your simplistic explanations don't explain away anything.
I wonder if there is a way to record video of this ?
Technical help please because I would love to put
together videos, and do a John Madden play by play :)
Circle the CT, circle the T, draw LOS to establish
that the T is hidden, forward the video, show the
T throwing grenade pay load. Freeze. Draw pointer
to CT now watch him with no LOS back off !
I'm not kidding guys. If you know a way
to record video of CS stuff let me know, I would
love to put together videos and completely shatter
the myth that cheating is not pervasive in Counter
Strike.
> > My frustration level with cheating peaked
> > recently. Cheating has ruined CS, and ruined its
> > integrity.
> >
> I've stopped playing CS a lot because of cheating
> not because it's in use, but because people have begun to use it as an
> excuse for their own lack of skill (or even just bad luck)
If you stopped playing CS as you said, then what do you know
about the current state of the game, and cheating ?
> You have an extremely good game going on - players are just lining
> themselves up for you - and guess what happens? "CHAET0R!!!!" "GHEY
FEGGOT!"
> "AIM BOT HOORE!!" [1]
That sounds like a personal problem.
My post had nothing to do with "GHEY FEGGOT!" or "AIM BOT HOORE"
It was very detailed description of that kinds of things you can
see when you are playing with and without the a wall hack.
<snip>
> > Then I would see these players fire off two or three rounds
> > at a time, into the wall, seemingly at nothing.
> >
> did they kill anything?
Does it matter ?
Failing to execute is does not make one innocent.
> even if they did, you must remember that section I said earlier
> summed up, it's "experienced player learns to listen for tell tales
sounds"
Again, I am an experienced player.
You are promoting a false argument.
Your argument assumes that myself and all of the other people who responded
and were in general agreement with my observations are newbies, which is not
the case.
Again, I seriously doubt you've logged as much CS time as me. After all,
you no longer play.
> Also, they may just be firing at random in t hope there IS someone
sneaking
> up
Why are you so desperate to explain all of this away ?
Maybe because you are creating a mod you don't want the
publics perception to sour on half life, and loose out on
potential mod fans.
> > Another thing, I used to see people bump into
> > door frames, boxes, and think: what retards,
> > how can you not get through a door ?
> >
> this is easily ping
> I often suffer from the dreaded cl_flushentitypacket
> I'll be running for a door, and suddenly everything stops...
> a split second later[3], my connection will kick back in, and I'll find
> myself flying into a door or wall.
> occassionally, I'll actually find myself dead, because the server's not
> heard me let go of the movement keys and just let me keep on running in
the
> direction I was going...
Not too many 20-50 pingers should be having those
kinds of problems.
So that argument is trashed.
> > Well now I know, people who have chronic problems
> > getting through door frames and bump into lots of
> > stuff... wall hack city.
> >
> see above
Now, you see above.
> > The hypocrisy was hilarious.
> >
> you do realise that you are suffering from it too here?
> You're complaining about how rife cheating is, but yet you are cheating
> yourself...
Don't misunderstand.
I am not complaining.
Why would I be complaining when I can operate undetected, and
dominate a server ?
I love Usenet, and 99% of my Usenet time is spent reading other
forums, I almost never follow the half life news groups,
I primarily use them when I am doing (google) searches
on trouble shooting some problem. And also coincidentally
to get info on the wall hack.
I posted this information very uncertain of what kind
of response I would get. I anticipated angry responses,
and also more responses like yours
"Oh, thats just your imagination"
or
"you are such an evil person, bad, bad, bad!"
I was surprised to see so many follow ups from other
long time counter strikes who noticed the increase in
cheating after cs 1.0.
I felt a sense of vindication after that.
I was not alone.
Ideally the wall hack should be fixed at a deeper level
than the mod developers can operate at.
The only force that I think could fix it is valve.
The reality is, that valve will not fix it, as
it is an artifact of the quake engines.
Since it wont be fixed, it leaves people to cope
with things the best way they can.
I simply do not see the point in keeping
counter strike cheating in the closet.
I want to OUT counter strike cheating :)
I am communicating to valve, and to the
counter strike community that cheating
is a real problem.
Many people don't agree with my radical "wall hack for all"
conclusion but that's ok because I respect them. I can see
from where they are coming from and perhaps they are right
and punkbuster is a cause for hope.
The position I do not respect is that of denial.
Especially the kind of denial that questions the
character of the accuser.
> > Cheaters, who would not go out of their way to accuse
> > others of cheating but would corroborate it.
> >
> because it removes the blame from themselves...
But the problem you have here is,
why was I content from beta 2 to 1.1. ?
You are saying I transformed into a blamer only after 1.1 ?
How about all the other guys who responded and saw it too ?
What is more likely ?
A sudden personality change in most experienced CS players
or the wide spread prevalence cheating corroborated by many
experienced CS players ?
> > It was as I suspected all those post-beta nights
> > that I was picked apart by cocky players with
> > great intuition of where I was to be at any moment.
> >
> that's often all it is...intuition
>
> > Those front runners, were all cheaters.
> >
> not true...not true at all...
Don't tell me it wasn't true.
Here is another story from that one night I cheated
(its amazing that I could get so much material from
a single night, isn't it ?).
How about this, on dust
I use an awp as a Terrorist.
I come out of respawn and figure I am gonna snipe a little.
So I run to the top of the long ramp that runs under
the bridge.
I get to the top of the ramp, move to the right side of it
near the large crate and the small flight of stairs.
There are a few Ts behind me, as expected a few
CTs emerge from the far side of the ramp, and
begin to approach, shooting, seeking cover, etc...
Of the 3 CTs that charge we mow down 2, I squeeze of a few
rounds as one takes cover on the left side of the ramp behind
a large crate, he is standing beyond the crate and it hides
his whole body. Perhaps the other Ts lost track of the numbers
or got bored because they left the ramp area and went back to
the hall way area to battle there so I was left alone.
But I was still there, crouched, half hidden behind a box, with
my awp zoomed in on the guy behind the box. I saw him clearly,
I guessed I could have taken him out shooting through the box,
but there was no need to draw attention to myself as a cheater.
So there I am, waiting for his inevitable charge away from cover
so I can blast him.
5 seconds pass, he just stares at me, through the box.
I don't move, I keep my gun trained on his position.
15 seconds...
I feel like we both know what's up. He knows that I cheat
and I know that he cheats. If I shoot through the box
he will scream like hell that I am a cheater.
30 seconds....
The guy is just standing there. Or perhaps not, perhaps he is afk.
I will move like I am going back to the
hallway area, and see what this joker does
after 45 seconds of being pinned down with
an awp.
The second I move off my line to get up and move to the stairs
that son of a bitch charges out of cover. He darts to the
other side of the tunnel, so that he can approach me under cover.
I'm sure you will have an explanation for this.
"The guy just returned from being AFK as you moved"
Yeah, whatever.
The number of occurrences of cheating that I witnessed in
one night as a wall hack was shocking.
You keep trying to explain things away but there
are so many things that need explaining you wind
up looking like an apologist.
And don't you understand that every one of your explanations
can be used to defend me, as a wall hacker ?
Because I wont do anything stupid or obvious like shoot
someone through a wall. I will rely on psychic timing,
psychic camping, etc... Things that can be explained
away by people like you. So what exactly is your
goal ?
> > Some wall cheaters happen to be good players,
> > some suck, its a natural distribution.
> >
> really good players will refuse to sink to the level of the cheater
> they'd rather just move server (or, take a demo & a few screenies and
inform
> the admin later)
>
> > So I don't doubt that someone who cheats can be good.
> >
> I do...by cheating, you've just proved to the world that you don't rate
your
> own skills and can't face losing...
I'm not going to compete in something that is rigged.
Its that simple.
<snip>
> > Cheating is real in Counter Strike, it is
> > wide spread. It has also ruined the game.
> >
> it is real
> it's NOT wide spread
You are incorrect.
And I would know better than you since I have
observed live games without walls hiding special details.
Without the wall hack its hard to see how two opponents
respond to each other beyond the cover of a wall.
With the wall hack you can spot synchronization
between the movements of a wall hacker and his enemies.
> at a rough estimate (and I'm probably giving higher percentage than it
> actually is) I'd say at most 1% cheat in some method
I would put cheating at about 20% to 50%.
I'm sure there are times where there are no cheaters
on a given server and sometimes greater than 50%.
20%-50% is an average.
> as I said before, cheat hysteria is what is ruining the game. its a sad
> state of affairs that a program like punk buster has to exist...
This seems like a contradiction.
On the one hand you say cheating is just hysteria, and on the
other you say its sad PB *has to* exist.
Well if its hysteria why does PB *have to* exist ?
Also, what caused all this cheat hysteria after 1.0 ?
Do you have a theory for that ?
<snip>
> > I know it sucks that people ruined the game
> > as it should be played but I personally would rather
> > use the cheat and operate without a disadvantage than
> > continue to get whipped under the *ILLUSION* of fairness.
> >
> I'd rather see their WON id's banned from every server possible...
Won't happen.
> > I see a lot of people come down on cheaters in these
> > news groups. Recently there was a great article by some guy
> > describing how he uses the wall cheat and he even posted screen
> > captures of it in use.
> >
> can't say I recall it?
> which newsgroup was this in?
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wall+hack+italy&hl=en&group=alt.games.half
-life.counterstrike.*&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=vqir8t804m8qvn4m2d2n10u5rd68hcu2d
6%404ax.com
You are probably going to have to cut and paste that into your browser
but that is the post I am talking about.
> > People who try to brow beat cheaters into
> > not cheating are wasting their energy, you
> > can't change human nature.
>
> no, but you can ban them from playing in the server...
Apparently that isn't working with me.
I'm only at it two nights but hey, there wasn't
one claim that I was wall cheating.
The hilarious irony was that I did play for a short period without
the wall hack in a small 6-7 person game on cs_italy. After about
5 rounds of blitzing like a mad man I had about 12-3
and I was accused of cheating :)
We all had approximately the same ping 20-40's.
I found this completely hilarious given that
I had spent earlier that night, and the previous night
cheating my ass off.
Personally I am glad you have explanations for
all of the ways I intent to cheat, so if I ever
run into you on a server you can act as my lawyer
and explain to all the newb's that they are just
imagining things. Thanks.
> > What you can
> > change is your choice of game,
>
> why? I like Half-Life...
Because a game, any game needs integrity.
If the integrity of a game is destroyed its
fairness comes into question and it looses meaning.
In my opinion counter strike has lost its integrity.
> > and possibly
> > you can lobby valve to attempt to fix the problem
> > or encourage them not to utilize hackable
> > technology for their future games.
> >
> it's not valve's fault for this - they have to work with a windows
> environment, if you want to blame anyone, try M$
Please explain to me the link with windows and the wall hack ?
other than the obvious fact that client software is written for windows.
It is not an operating systems responsibility to prevent the wall hack
Your credibility just plummeted.
<snip>
> ah, but listening to an mp3 doesn't spoil someone else's enjoyment of it
> you ising a cheat in a game can and will spoil the honest player's fun
> because they haven't got a hope in hell against cheating scum
You are actually defending listening to illegal mp3s ?
Downloading, trading, using any kind of intellectual property
without permission is theft.
It doesn't matter if its warez, book warez or mp3s.
Its theft. Punishable by law.
get your priorities right sonny.
I have news for you, as you venture out into this great world.
People spoiling other peoples fun happens quite often.
Ever been dumped or cheated on by a girlfriend ?
Ever been screwed over at work ?
Those are trivial let downs by today's standards I'm sure.
Life is full of much more substantial let downs than
the realization that space invaders is rigged.
I sympathize with your statement that honest players
don't have a chance against cheating scum, on that
at least we seem to agree.
The only way that cheating in gaming will be seriously
addressed is if it factors into the bottom line of game
developers, the consumer is in the drivers seat.
I feel that the more cheating is exposed, and the more
it damages the reputation of a game the better it is for
honest players everywhere.
There is no benefit to keeping it hush hush.
> > A solution ?
> >
> <snipped>
>
> the half-life mods are made by editting 2 dlls (a server dll and a client
> dll)
> every single entity, player, sprite, etc is given to you when you play
> at present, I am unsure if it's possible to prevent someone receiving the
> where abouts of a player, etc unless they have line of site, but it's an
> interesting theory and if it can be done, I will certainly try and
implement
> it in to TFHL....
As some other poster pointed out, a client will still need to have
information
about player location so it can do sound effects etc..
My idea was more of an idealistic one which was a model for all games
not just half life. My guess is that it isn't easily possible to get
that effect with a half life mod, but I could be wrong.
Yes the client does have to know about sounds, but the information it
really needs is nowhere near as detailed as what a typical half life
mod client currently gets. Outside of 50 feet, the client does not need
to hear foot steps. There is no need for a client to have that information.
Exact physical coordinates of the location from which a sound emanates
is also not needed.
The server can send packets to the client that indicate general
direction and proximity of the sound which does not
translate into exact physical position.
If someone wants to hack a client to render enemies based on
sound information it will be difficult to determine an exact
physical location which makes the hack nearly unnecessary.
I think that 15 degrees of uncertainty of the source of the sound
would be realistic and enough variance to foil wall hacks.
> as a final request
> please, please, please remove this wall hack from your computer and try
and
> regain some of your diginity...
I'm experimenting with other games in hopes that cheating
is not as problematic.
Counter strike has become a farce.
I expect to find some cheating in any game, but at more tolerable levels
than what now exists in counter strike.
WildStyle24_7
alt.games.half-life, and PilgriM says to me...
>
> They tried changing the scoring in about beta 6 (don't quote me on that) &
> the outcry was enormous so they quickly brought it back to frag based
> scoring, basically I think the developers have accepted that it is now team
> deathmatch & that they will never be able to rid the game of cheaters
> completely,
>
stopped playing seriously around beta 5.x. Various clans said they
couldn't monitor the performance of individual players without individual
scores, etc etc, and the CS team caved in to the pressure. Looking back,
that could well have been the turning point, at which CS chose to be Team
DM rather than a goal based team game - certainly in the absence of any
score for completing mission objectives (beyond getting more cash for the
next round).
It's strange to think of it now, but back in the early betas, players
actually wanted to play the game properly - up to around Beta 4 (the last
release I found any fun at all), rushing by terrs on CS maps was
something that was roundly condemned by the majority.
--
"Like David said in the 23rd Psalm, 'Though I walk through the valley of
the shadow of death.' See, nobody say, 'Hey, man, let's go shoppin' in
the valley of the shadow of death! Let's go buy a condo in the valley of
the shadow of death!'"
- Mr. T
WildStyle24_7
alt.games.half-life, and Jason says to me...
>
> They haven't released TF2 because they want to get every penny out of half
> life, gee Blue Shift took what, 2 weeks to produce?
>
Yeah, of course, since HL was released, they've just counted their money
and sat around on their private island blowing coke out their arses.
Every one knows all the patches, TFC, DMC, and all the help given to
third party mods took no time at all.
--
"'Jesus Tapdancing Christ' may not be specific either, but it sums up the
response of anyone with a BSc to crap like this."
-Tom Cervo, on why NASA officials were not "specific" in answering the
"Moon Landings were a Hoax" Argument.
James Whyley
"WildStyle24_7" <WildSt...@seanbaby.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15d11e2bb...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> That day, Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:51:47 -0700 dawned fine and sunny in
> alt.games.half-life, and Jason says to me...
> >
> > They haven't released TF2 because they want to get every penny out of
half
> > life, gee Blue Shift took what, 2 weeks to produce?
> >
> Yeah, of course, since HL was released, they've just counted their money
> and sat around on their private island blowing coke out their arses.
>
> Every one knows all the patches, TFC, DMC, and all the help given to
> third party mods took no time at all.
Don't toy with the poor chap, he'll get all confused.
CaptFarrell
>
guess I'm gonna have to respond to this one since we have a lot of
misunderstandings to clear up
First of, I never said you weren't an experienced player, but you did say
you'd stopped playing for 6 months...
> > > Cheating was widespread.
> > >
> > not really, cheating hysteria has become wide spread
>
> You are in denial.
>
> Cheating is wide spread, just examine the replies to my original post.
>
I must be lucky then - the servers I choose to play on don't seem to have
that great a percentage of actual cheaters...just the accusers
> A great number of rational and experienced counter strike players
> are in general agreement with my observations (Yet not with my
> conclusion).
>
that's because many players rate cheating along with usung a CD key
generator for HL
> > > I had encountered the occasional cheater in previous
> > > betas. It was so rare people rarely bothered to
> > > disguise it.
> > >
> > it's still quite rare, but because there are more players, there will be
> > more people cheating, but it's still roughly the same percentage of bad
> > apples spoiling the barrel
>
> Not even close.
>
> What beta did you start playing at again ?
>
only 6.6, but I admit that it's gotten steadily worse with each new version
and every new group of players - more cheats etc
but we have seen many types of cheats being combatted
> Let me get this straight you are equating the ability for someone to hear
> footsteps, or even to perceive the direction of the enemy with instant
> kill capability as they come into the open.
>
you haven't played CS with an SB Live platinum and stennheiser headphones
then, have you?
> Remember, the situation I described is a rushing situation. Rushers
> have a good idea of where the point of contact is going to be. So there
> is no surprise in knowing where the enemy is.
>
so, both sides are rushing?
you didn't mention that - you basically said you were/or another player
jumped round a corner to be shot instantly...
> Some of the time it is ok. I acknowledge that sometimes it can happen
> and be legit, and I have gotten my share of surprises. What you
> are failing to realize is that I am not a newbie and have logged
> probably over a 1000 hours of counter strike time.
>
I didn't say you were
but I've seen many experienced players who have refused to admit that
someone can be better than them...or even close to as good - the old God
complex...
> What you are failing to address is the trend I am experiencing
> *ONLY AFTER CS WENT RETAIL*
>
> Comprende ?
>
> This is the same trend that other experienced players
> have noticed, and even posted general agreement with me.
>
I suppose I should have made the note that it's gotten worse BECAUSE CS has
went retail...
it's also due to the fact that it's one of (if not the) most played games on
the internet.
the cheats are made for this game because there are more players to use
against and more to use it
> Maybe you don't rush so you can't paint a realistic picture.
>
on the whole, I prefer not to rush unless the map calls for it but I do know
how to do it, and often successfully
> I know, that when a guy is consistently dropping me like
> that, he has an advantage to know *EXACTLY* where I am.
>
if it's the same guy, then I admit - I will get suspscious
> If you don't rush, why did you chime in about it ?
>
never said I didn't...
but I tend not to rush the whole journey...I get to a 'safe' spot then try
and sneak
> I am specifically talking about de_dust.
>
I was assuming cs_ maps...
> So what I am saying is: in practice when CTs slow down
> to listen on dust, and you have a team of Ts with a 50+
> average IQ, they will occupy the bombsite early and win
> every time.
>
> So much for slowing down to listen.
>
this is where the running to a safe spot then listening helps
CTs can often make it to the bomb site before the T's
when I play this map, I try to..and when I get through the big doors, I
start walking and listening, then wait to pick off Ts that pop out
> > give an example please...
>
> The decision of player A to all the sudden
> advance west (beginning his pursuit) is meaningless
> to honest players without the wall hack, but to
> someone evil like me who is employing wall hack technology
> it is obvious what is happening.
>
> It was also comical that when witnessing this kind of stuff
> for the first time I had to think of myself as previously naive.
>
this is a situation then I'd have to admit foul play
but since I don't intend to install the drivers, I will just have to assume
that someone who suddenly changes his/her direction has just decided on a
new plan
> > 1 word....ping
>
> <snippage>
>
> I factor ping into my judgement.
>
> On the servers I play on I get about 20-50 ping.
>
> I'm comfortable around 30.
>
since you never mentioned what you ping was, I assumed you were around the
100-140 mark.
personally, I'm lucky to get sub 200
> > The other player saw me before I saw him - that's client side
prediction,
>
> Your theory breaks down when the two players have nearly equivalent pings
> which is the case in the majority of the events I am witnessing.
>
not if they both have pings like mine...
> I have often as an HPB (in the old days) strafe out into an opening
> and hesitate for a moment, then strafe back, and get killed while
> behind cover which was actually me being shot when I hesitated
> out in the clear. I can differentiate between bullets that go around
> corners :) and wall hacking.
>
I'm not talking about the times you run out then back quickly
I mean the times you stop before the corner, but your packet loss causes you
to go beyond it.
for someone who doesn't know about this sort of thing, they may begin to
think 'he could see me through that wall...'
> The majority of the "psychic trigger" cases I have witnessed
> are when I am dead and observing a suspicious character.
> Its even better when the psychic camper wants to cover two
> entry ways, he jogs back and forth between the two, but when
> the challenger finally arrives he always seems to be waiting
> for him :)
>
many times I've sat in Dust, covering the tunnel, the door above and the
door to the right, and because I've heard the sound of an oncoming T, I've
switched view and nailed him/her
> I am telling you, get the wall hack, then watch that guy react
> as the poor sap comes running down the hall.
>
I'd rather not
> > > I've seen people back away from corners in a hurry when
> > > the enemy has thrown a grenade that they have no line
> > > of sight on.
> > >
> > experience...remember, you do learn how people like to play maps...and
> some
> > people have no imagination...
>
> First off, drop the insults and the condescending tone.
>
I wasn't insulting or trying to be condecending...trust me, you'd know if I
was
> God forbid someone come along and pop your big fantasy bubble.
>
> Will you please deal with reality.
>
personally - I've had enough reality in the past year to need more...and
don't ask
> cheating is widespread in counter strike, and just because
> you are incapable of seeing it, does not make everyone else
> who does see it an idiot. On the contrary I would think.
>
it must be my choice of servers then that prevent me from seeing it
maybe it's a geographical dependant thing (I play on UK servers mainly) - I
don't know
> I am willing to bet I have easily logged more CS time than you
> and from the "newbie training manual" sound of your advice it
> sounds like your ego is out of whack.
>
I wouldn't doubt it for a second that you've played more than me
I log in at most 2 to 3 hours a week of CS
and I can assure you, my ego is not out of whack...
> > or, have you heard of programs like Roger Wilco? Maybe he's talking
with
> > someone who CAN see that grenade getting thrown....
>
> I frequently witness the old "spider sense back off"
> without any player of the same team having LOS
> on the grenade thrower.
>
> There is no way a CT can establish LOS on the T who
> throws the grenade unless he, like I can see through walls.
>
who said the other person on RW had to be on the same side?
You must remember though, I'm not seeing these things through the walls
maybe they are cheating, maybe they're not...it's a take each situation
thing...
> Your simplistic explanations don't explain away anything.
>
> I wonder if there is a way to record video of this ?
>
> Technical help please because I would love to put
> together videos, and do a John Madden play by play :)
>
> Circle the CT, circle the T, draw LOS to establish
> that the T is hidden, forward the video, show the
> T throwing grenade pay load. Freeze. Draw pointer
> to CT now watch him with no LOS back off !
>
either by demo or by a few screenshots maybe?
maybe with 1.1.0.8 and the multicast spectator mode, it will be amazingly
obvious to spot the wall hackers (if valve don't fix it like they say they
will)
> > > My frustration level with cheating peaked
> > > recently. Cheating has ruined CS, and ruined its
> > > integrity.
> > >
> > I've stopped playing CS a lot because of cheating
> > not because it's in use, but because people have begun to use it as an
> > excuse for their own lack of skill (or even just bad luck)
>
> If you stopped playing CS as you said, then what do you know
> about the current state of the game, and cheating ?
>
I didn't say I'd stopped completely - just stopped as much as I used to
I used to play 4-5 hours a night, now it's about 3 a week
>
> > > Then I would see these players fire off two or three rounds
> > > at a time, into the wall, seemingly at nothing.
> > >
> > did they kill anything?
>
> Does it matter ?
>
> Failing to execute is does not make one innocent.
>
so, because I sometimes fire off a few rounds into a wall where I think an
opponent will be makes me guilty?
> > even if they did, you must remember that section I said earlier
> > summed up, it's "experienced player learns to listen for tell tales
> sounds"
>
> Again, I am an experienced player.
>
> You are promoting a false argument.
>
> Your argument assumes that myself and all of the other people who
responded
> and were in general agreement with my observations are newbies, which is
not
> the case.
>
since this is an open 'forum', I'm generallising for people who HAVEN'T
played for months/years/etc
if newbies believe that anyone who does this is a cheater then it will
completely ruin the game for them and all we'd have are veterens and no new
blood
> > Also, they may just be firing at random in t hope there IS someone
> sneaking
> > up
>
> Why are you so desperate to explain all of this away ?
>
because I want others to know all possible sides before jumping to
conclusions
being told 1 side of what happens can cause bad conclusions...
for instance...something that has happened to me
cs_italy:
as a T, I often like to sit in the corner of the upper floor or the hostage
building, with my back to the main window (you know - the dark corner)
I sit and wait for CTs to jump through the other window or come up the
stairs
I was suddenly shot through the wall
my first instinct WAS "wall hacker!!" until I noticed who;d killed me
I was playing on a map with my friend who informed me that he often shoots
there because he knows it's a common spot.
And before you say, "he may have the wall hacks" trust me...he doesn't - he
doesn't have the ability to know how to use them
But what I mean is, it's very possible for cheat hysteria to take over there
and accuse someone falsly...
> Maybe because you are creating a mod you don't want the
> publics perception to sour on half life, and loose out on
> potential mod fans.
>
I am actually making a mod, but it wouldn't matter - my mod is to be close
combat mainly so the ability to see through walls would be non-profitable
> > I often suffer from the dreaded cl_flushentitypacket
> > I'll be running for a door, and suddenly everything stops...
> > a split second later[3], my connection will kick back in, and I'll find
> > myself flying into a door or wall.
> > occassionally, I'll actually find myself dead, because the server's not
> > heard me let go of the movement keys and just let me keep on running in
> the
> > direction I was going...
>
> Not too many 20-50 pingers should be having those
> kinds of problems.
>
> So that argument is trashed.
>
yes, for 20-50 pingers it is, but you never mentioned that
> > > The hypocrisy was hilarious.
> > >
> > you do realise that you are suffering from it too here?
> > You're complaining about how rife cheating is, but yet you are cheating
> > yourself...
>
> Don't misunderstand.
>
> I am not complaining.
>
so you're glorifying it then?
> I posted this information very uncertain of what kind
> of response I would get. I anticipated angry responses,
> and also more responses like yours
>
> "Oh, thats just your imagination"
>
many of it can be imagination
some of it won't be
as I've said, I'm telling others as well that it may just be legit tactics
and ability
> I was surprised to see so many follow ups from other
> long time counter strikes who noticed the increase in
> cheating after cs 1.0.
>
there has been an increase of cheaters
but remember there has also been a huge increase in players and people
making cheats for it
> The reality is, that valve will not fix it, as
> it is an artifact of the quake engines.
>
they have actually claimed that 1.1.0.8 will fix the wall hack
> > > Cheaters, who would not go out of their way to accuse
> > > others of cheating but would corroborate it.
> > >
> > because it removes the blame from themselves...
>
> But the problem you have here is,
> why was I content from beta 2 to 1.1. ?
>
hard to say, but I know I was more satisfied during beta 6.6 (I never played
before that so I can't say if I would have prefered it then...)
> You are saying I transformed into a blamer only after 1.1 ?
>
no, I'm not
it's just that there are more and more cheaters playing...
> A sudden personality change in most experienced CS players
> or the wide spread prevalence cheating corroborated by many
> experienced CS players ?
>
most of the cheaters are most likely not experienced players, but the ones
who started playing late on and culdn't cope with the level of play so
decided to get an 'edge'...
> Here is another story from that one night I cheated
> (its amazing that I could get so much material from
> a single night, isn't it ?).
>
> I'm sure you will have an explanation for this.
>
> "The guy just returned from being AFK as you moved"
>
actually, no..I wouldn't
I'd be one of the first to admit there was cheating going on
> And don't you understand that every one of your explanations
> can be used to defend me, as a wall hacker ?
>
not to a trained eye
although, from what you are saying, the players you are up against are
cheating - your 'ability' to watch them through walls nails their coffins
shut (and your's, I suppose)
again, I'm trying to help prevent people from unreasonablly accusing...just
because it looks like someone's wall hacking, doesn't mean they are
(although the 'nose to a wall following something" is a sure sign they very
well are
> Because I wont do anything stupid or obvious like shoot
> someone through a wall. I will rely on psychic timing,
> psychic camping, etc... Things that can be explained
> away by people like you. So what exactly is your
> goal ?
>
my goal?
exactly what I said above...
unfortunately, it wouldn't catch out the sneakier cheaters like you say you
are, but it will (hopefully) prevent people being accused of cheating when
they're not
> > I do...by cheating, you've just proved to the world that you don't rate
> your
> > own skills and can't face losing...
>
> I'm not going to compete in something that is rigged.
>
> Its that simple.
don't compete then...
> > at a rough estimate (and I'm probably giving higher percentage than it
> > actually is) I'd say at most 1% cheat in some method
>
> I would put cheating at about 20% to 50%.
>
> I'm sure there are times where there are no cheaters
> on a given server and sometimes greater than 50%.
> 20%-50% is an average.
>
so, out of all the people I know, you're saying up to half are cheating?
not true...I can assure you that none of the people I conside friends and
play CS with cheat
> > as I said before, cheat hysteria is what is ruining the game. its a sad
> > state of affairs that a program like punk buster has to exist...
>
> This seems like a contradiction.
>
> On the one hand you say cheating is just hysteria, and on the
> other you say its sad PB *has to* exist.
>
cheat hysteria does not mean cheating is hysteria - it's the hysterics that
cheating causes..all the unwarranted accusations, etc.
and I still say it's sad that we have to have PB...in an ideal world it
wouldn't exist because people wouldn;t see the need to cheat.
The statements were not quite related and it's just my crap grammatical
skills that put them in the same paragraph.
But I still say they are both valid statements
> Also, what caused all this cheat hysteria after 1.0 ?
>
> Do you have a theory for that ?
>
there's always been hysteria, but it's increased since version 1.0
mainly, I suppose because we have more and more players who are being told
that cheating is hugely wide spread, so the person who kills them MUST be
cheating...
> > > I know it sucks that people ruined the game
> > > as it should be played but I personally would rather
> > > use the cheat and operate without a disadvantage than
> > > continue to get whipped under the *ILLUSION* of fairness.
> > >
> > I'd rather see their WON id's banned from every server possible...
>
> Won't happen.
>
I know that, I'd also like to have all the money I need...I'd just like to
see them happen
> > > I see a lot of people come down on cheaters in these
> > > news groups. Recently there was a great article by some guy
> > > describing how he uses the wall cheat and he even posted screen
> > > captures of it in use.
> > >
> > can't say I recall it?
> > which newsgroup was this in?
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wall+hack+italy&hl=en&group=alt.games.half
> -life.counterstrike.*&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=vqir8t804m8qvn4m2d2n10u5rd68hcu
2d
> 6%404ax.com
>
that'll be why...I don't read AGHLCS
> > > People who try to brow beat cheaters into
> > > not cheating are wasting their energy, you
> > > can't change human nature.
> >
> > no, but you can ban them from playing in the server...
>
> Apparently that isn't working with me.
>
> I'm only at it two nights but hey, there wasn't
> one claim that I was wall cheating.
>
true...you have to be caught
> The hilarious irony was that I did play for a short period without
> the wall hack in a small 6-7 person game on cs_italy. After about
> 5 rounds of blitzing like a mad man I had about 12-3
> and I was accused of cheating :)
>
see...cheat hysteria at it's best....
> In my opinion counter strike has lost its integrity.
>
I won't disagree there
> Downloading, trading, using any kind of intellectual property
> without permission is theft.
>
so's videoing a television program unless you are an educational instition
(at least in the UK)
> I have news for you, as you venture out into this great world.
>
> People spoiling other peoples fun happens quite often.
>
oh, I know that all right...
> > the half-life mods are made by editting 2 dlls (a server dll and a
client
> > dll)
> > every single entity, player, sprite, etc is given to you when you play
> > at present, I am unsure if it's possible to prevent someone receiving
the
> > where abouts of a player, etc unless they have line of site, but it's an
> > interesting theory and if it can be done, I will certainly try and
> implement
> > it in to TFHL....
>
> As some other poster pointed out, a client will still need to have
> information
> about player location so it can do sound effects etc..
>
> My idea was more of an idealistic one which was a model for all games
> not just half life. My guess is that it isn't easily possible to get
> that effect with a half life mod, but I could be wrong.
>
it *could* be done in a half-life mod, as I've had discussed in a coding
forum, but it requires a lot of processor work just to make sure that you
have NO LOS of the other player
finally, can you tell me what servers you play on?
if the cheating is so bad on them, I never want to play near them...
WildStyle24_7
alt.games.half-life, and James Whyley says to me...
>
> Don't toy with the poor chap, he'll get all confused.
>
Better ready a shovel or two just in case though.
--
"All three of those are way better, and equally or more realistic than
Falcon 4. Falcon doesnt even HAVE nukes, and there is NO way it
could be that hard to fly a little F-16."
-Jeff, on Falcon 4's deficiencies
PilgriM
think I had a little dabble with beta 3, hehe that was funny, I couldn't
figure out how to get weapons so asked the other team where they got theirs
thinking there was some kind of little stash or shop somewhere (hey it was
money based so the conclusion was fair enough at the time I thought).
I have recently stopped playing CS & don't even have HL installed anymore
cos it has basically gone downhill ever since beta 7.0 although it probably
was on a slide before then but at least most players still tried to carry
out the mission objectives before then.
CS is just team DM these days, I don't think anyone could claim otherwise
convincingly, I even got bagged for being an oldtimer a few weeks back by
some idiot for playing tactically & not actually rushing out to get killed.
I told the guy that when he has been playing as long as me then he can tell
me how I should play, that shut him up until for some strange reason the map
changed to a HL DM map (I think the admin was trying to change to HL DM &
stuffed up), when I said "WTF" he had a go at me for not recognizing the
map, game me some satisfaction to inform him of what the map was, didn't
hear a peep out of him after that.
Kinda sad when you can't have a game these days without somone having a go
at you or wanting to argue, putting me off multiplayer games a bit atm.
Also getting sick of FPS games a bit, going to avoid them until HALO comes
out, seriously considering getting a kick-as joystick & playing Freelancer
when it is released, I missed the X-wing vs Tie-fighter craze while I was
holidaying in Europe.
PilgriM
"WildStyle24_7" <WildSt...@seanbaby.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15d11f484...@news.cis.dfn.de...
P. Larkin
Check out http://www.xlii.com
Let me know what you think, you might reinstall CS once you find a
place where you can play with people who all think, and want to play,
like you just described.
In article <Z82a7.13505$A5.4...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
pilgri...@optushome.com.au says...
--
----------------------------------------
contact: frost at xlii dot com
news: alt.motorcycle.sportbike
alt.motorcycle.kawasaki.gpz
rec.sport.jetski
2000 Kawasaki 1100 ZXI
1995 Kawasaki GPZ 1100
TwoFive
wallhack? dont need it! stereo sound + radar is all i need to pinpoint
anybody within hearing limit thats not on my team....yeah, i guess you can
guess how often i get called a cheater :)
>>>>>>>
aye a good pair of aiwa headphones is my wallhack
The Meddler
>I'm not kidding guys. If you know a way
>to record video of CS stuff let me know, I would
>love to put together videos and completely shatter
>the myth that cheating is not pervasive in Counter
>Strike.
IIRC there is a startmovie command which will generate images that can be
animated. I guess the demo recording commands wouldnt show up teh wallhack.
If you are going to use wallhack on a public server could you please not shoot
anyone. Some people want to play without cheats, and god knows how many people
are just testing wallhack on public servers. You probably *all* have the same
excuse for using it.
My favourite way of upsetting wallhackers is to go into the toilet with the
hostages in milita. Then tell them where you are. "Im in the bathroom come and
get me". Either they will give themselves away by shooting you through the
walls or they will ignore you and let the round end. Its not much fun for them
either way. I usually record a demo as well.
--
[TCSUK} http://www.tactical.uklinux.net
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
The Meddler
>
>Check out http://www.xlii.com
>
>Let me know what you think, you might reinstall CS once you find a
>place where you can play with people who all think, and want to play,
>like you just described.
Nice FAQ.
I was on the t team dead, and teh ct team had the bomb. For a change 6 of the
ct team camped on the dropped bomb. Someone asked "Were is the skill in
sitting and waiting for someone to walk past and shooting them?" I said, that
in this case the CT team (my opposition) were playing skillfully because they
would win the round. Where is the skill in rushing around looking for someone
to kill when the last T takes the bomb and wins the round?
for my pains I was called an arsehole. People just want to play deathmatch. I
really cant understand why they are playing CS at all.
Tom Jeffs
your post? Save us all some time please!
Tom
PilgriM
"Tom Jeffs" <tom@-negativespam-pollenprod.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:996840054.51.0....@news.demon.co.uk...
PilgriM
James Whyley
> That day, Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:51:54 +0100 dawned fine and sunny in
> alt.games.half-life, and James Whyley says to me...
> >
> > Don't toy with the poor chap, he'll get all confused.
> >
> I think that's his natural state James, he won't notice the difference.
>
> Better ready a shovel or two just in case though.
Right you are, I'll put my special arse kicking boots on too, just in case
WildStyle24_7
> think I had a little dabble with beta 3, hehe that was funny, I couldn't
> figure out how to get weapons so asked the other team where they got theirs
> thinking there was some kind of little stash or shop somewhere (hey it was
> money based so the conclusion was fair enough at the time I thought).
>
dropping their guns, an HL style green canister dropped to the ground,
with god knows what in it.... Many a time I'd ditch whatever primary I
was carrying just to find a lousy glock in the package :)
Beta 1 was something else - I think most of the people playing had the
feeling that this was something very special indeed, and by and large, I
saw very little rushing - what there was was spoken of in similar terms
to the way people speak of cheats now. I remember a distinct feeling
that with the game in it's early state, it was up to us, as the players,
to play it in the spirit it was intended to be.
It was something quite new for those of us coming from Quake/HL dm too,
and it took some getting used to. I remember one Beta1 game where I
played CT for one map, and then respawned in the next map as a terr
(unbeknown to me). Unable to believe my luck at spawning behind what I
thought was the entire enemy team, I took all but two of them out, until
someone informed me of my mistake... :)
> I have recently stopped playing CS & don't even have HL installed anymore
> cos it has basically gone downhill ever since beta 7.0 although it probably
> was on a slide before then but at least most players still tried to carry
> out the mission objectives before then.
>
That's the feeling I got post-beta4 - the message board began to really
fill up with cretins, and Beta5.x seemed to me to be the "knife rushing"
beta. Public servers began to get the same kind of vibe they have now,
with that "do anything to win and cuss the other team out if you don't
"feel, and the emphasis moved from the players keeping the game fun, to
the CS team coding idiocy out (sadly impossible, as the idiots are both
inventive, and greater in number - the AHL team was always better at
predicting just *how stupid* some people are). The emphasis on
individual frags, as opposed to team effort also felt far stronger in the
B5.x teams I played with (perhaps with the changed scoreboard
contributing, I dunno), and I faded from the CS scene gradually - I think
the last game I played was B6, on an AGHL bash, but my heart wasn't in it
anymore.
> CS is just team DM these days, I don't think anyone could claim otherwise
> convincingly, I even got bagged for being an oldtimer a few weeks back by
> some idiot for playing tactically & not actually rushing out to get killed.
>
CAMPER! :)
> Kinda sad when you can't have a game these days without somone having a go
> at you or wanting to argue, putting me off multiplayer games a bit atm.
>
Yup - the emphasis on multiplayer titles these days sadly ignores the
fact that an awful lot of mp gamers seem to be total cockmonkeys, with no
social skills. I tend to find games with folks I know these days -
initially SWAT3 bashing with Paul et al, and letterly Paul and my
occasional EAW/Flanker meets provide enough good humoured mp fun to get
me by.
> Also getting sick of FPS games a bit, going to avoid them until HALO comes
> out, seriously considering getting a kick-as joystick & playing Freelancer
> when it is released, I missed the X-wing vs Tie-fighter craze while I was
> holidaying in Europe.
>
If you're grabbing a flight stick, I suggest a copy of EAW to go with it
- one of the most enjoyable, and expandable games I've ever played - it's
£3 most places over here now, and for the fun you'll get out of it, worth
ten times that.
R6/RS and SWAT3 are pretty good if you feel in an FPS rut too,
sufficiently different from the run of the mill, imo.
--
"Any person caught touching his or her genitals without a solid,
medically-approved reason should be imprisoned in a boot camp.
We will teach our children that God did not give us genitals for
entertainment."
-Americans For Purity, http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/2680/
Killjoy
for multiplayer but if you make a game with no cheats AT ALL then no cheats
word for that game and if you are saying WALL-HACK was not in halflife it
allready was just type"gl_zmax 0" as the cheat is as follows
Use the console first then type the following codes:
gl_zmax 0 = Look through walls like that gadget in the latest James Bond
movie.You could use an AWP and kill the enemy through the wall which is
sheilding him.
See its allready there valve didabled it for multiplayer
and then some guy went back a couple of patchs and remade it. So if theres
no Cheats to start with then no cheats can ever be made.
"wallhack" <wall...@counter-strike.net> wrote in message
news:jng97.44346$UH6.7...@news02.optonline.net...
> I have been playing counter-strike since beta 2.
> Before that I played TFC.
>
> What can I say, when I found it I fell in love
> with the concept. The added realism when compared
> to typical half-life mods.
> The speed, the brutality of the weapons.
>
> I enjoyed beta 2 all the way to beta 7.
> Shortly after 1.0 was released, I stopped playing
> because I was too busy. Months passed and I did
> not play any counter strike, then finally after
> what seemed like 6 months, I began to play again.
>
> Counter Strike had exploded in popularity after
> it went retail. After playing in the post-retail
> environment one thing became clear to me.
>
> Cheating was widespread.
>
> I had encountered the occasional cheater in previous
> betas. It was so rare people rarely bothered to
> disguise it.
>
> I am primarily talking about the wall cheat.
>
> But wall hacking was pretty rare back in the day
> and when people used it was obvious.
>
> Fast forward to today. I consider myself a
> pretty good player. I'm not in a clan but
> I have routinely played on clan public servers and
> worked my way into the top ranked slots
> on the stat list. I am sometimes asked to be
> in a clan.
>
> In the Post-retail counter strike world, I see
> many suspicious things. I can't tell you the number
> of times I have rushed at a rate that usually catches
> an enemy off guard and then as I come around that last
> corner, get zipped instantly as if the guy had me lined up
> before he made his last turn. This has happened quite
> often, I've taken headshots the moment I come into view
> of a moving enemy that shouldn't have an exact idea of
> where my head is as I come out into the open.
>
> When dead, I inspect player's actions. As I have done
> for 6 betas. I am no newbie.
>
> And here are some things I see a lot of recently.
>
> I've watched player A chase player B through an
> elaborate set of turns which present many alternate
> wrong paths. Player A has no line of sight, yet
> magically follows his prey without error.
>
> I've seen people camp at one spot and cover an opening
> and fire at the perfect (psychic) timing as the enemy
> just comes into the clear, as if they saw them come
> to that intersection. I've seen it, and been at the
> receiving end.
>
> I've seen people back away from corners in a hurry when
> the enemy has thrown a grenade that they have no line
> of sight on.
>
> My frustration level with cheating peaked
> recently. Cheating has ruined CS, and ruined its
> integrity.
>
> Then I would see these players fire off two or three rounds
> at a time, into the wall, seemingly at nothing.
>
> I now believe that while in some cases it may be a complete
> idiot playing, its more likely someone using the wall cheat
> who is having trouble differentiating an obstructed view from
> a clear sight path, so he prematurely fires before the player
> is into the normal line of sight.
>
> Another thing, I used to see people bump into
> door frames, boxes, and think: what retards,
> how can you not get through a door ?
>
> Well now I know, people who have chronic problems
> getting through door frames and bump into lots of
> stuff... wall hack city.
>
> The funniest thing was that, one of the guys
> who shot at me from behind a box... who I knew
> was wall hacking was discussing something with
> someone while dead. Just as I died, I followed
> the conversation, and he was agreeing with someone
> else's claim that Player X is wall hacking (Player X
> was not the real name). He basically said...
> "yeah it looks like he is (cheating), we should
> vote him off". Now they were not talking about me,
> they were talking about some guy who had more kills
> than me and a similar ratio. The hypocrisy was hilarious.
>
> Cheaters, who would not go out of their way to accuse
> others of cheating but would corroborate it.
>
> Not one person accused me of cheating.
>
> And my score ?
>
> It was great, I was running near a 3-1 kill ratio.
>
> Near the end my score looked like the same kind
> of score those cocky trash talking jerks have.
> and no wonder why. Its so easy when you cheat.
>
> There I sat, in the #1 slot, with a few people
> close in that grouping.
>
> They were cheating as well.
>
> It was as I suspected all those post-beta nights
> that I was picked apart by cocky players with
> great intuition of where I was to be at any moment.
>
> Those front runners, were all cheaters.
>
> After my experience of cheating last night
> and the things I saw you can't convince me that
> there is a dominating player in Counter Strike
> who does not cheat in its current form.
>
> I will not accept it.
>
> Some wall cheaters happen to be good players,
> some suck, its a natural distribution.
>
> So I don't doubt that someone who cheats can be good.
>
> Its just that I doubt someone who *dominates* is legit.
>
> Cheating is real in Counter Strike, it is
> wide spread. It has also ruined the game.
>
> My suggestion to all players is, go out and
> get the wall hack. Do a web search for
> wall hack from yahoo which should be a start.
>
> Then play on the level that *everyone* can play on.
>
> It is the only way for things to be fair.
>
> I know it sucks that people ruined the game
> as it should be played but I personally would rather
> use the cheat and operate without a disadvantage than
> continue to get whipped under the *ILLUSION* of fairness.
>
> I see a lot of people come down on cheaters in these
> news groups. Recently there was a great article by some guy
> describing how he uses the wall cheat and he even posted screen
> captures of it in use.
>
> It was a great eye opening post because it
> destroys the MYTH of fairness.
>
> Fairness doesn't exist in counter strike.
>
> People who try to brow beat cheaters into
> not cheating are wasting their energy, you
> can't change human nature. What you can
> change is your choice of game, and possibly
> you can lobby valve to attempt to fix the problem
> or encourage them not to utilize hackable
> technology for their future games.
>
Lefty
probably on mIRC right now :-)
BTW, have you been following the witty and talented "Word Association"
thread?
"Tom Jeffs" <tom@-negativespam-pollenprod.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:996840054.51.0....@news.demon.co.uk...
WildStyle24_7
alt.games.half-life, and Tom Jeffs says to me...
> Christ almighty dont u guys know how to delete the old message content of
> your post? Save us all some time please!
>
>
--
"What the hell is all this shit?
It's just gay and a bunch of bull shit if you ask me."
-Mark sums up the story so far in a troll thread.
PilgriM
"P. Larkin" <fr...@xlii.com.cc> wrote in message
news:MPG.15d292b3c...@nntp.bx.net...
>
> Check out http://www.xlii.com
>
> Let me know what you think, you might reinstall CS once you find a
> place where you can play with people who all think, and want to play,
> like you just described.
>
Looks like a great idea, very nice web site too :)
I don't think anything will get me back into CS, the drive to play has gone
& I don't enjoy it anymore, been playing it for a loooong time so no big
deal for me to stop now, it was fun though :)
Thanks for the info anyway, I'm in Australia so I couldn't come visit the
server without a crap load o lag, even though I am on cable.
PilgriM
PilgriM
> If you're grabbing a flight stick, I suggest a copy of EAW to go with it
Funnily enough I did buy EAW a while back, started to get into it but CS got
in the way, gives me a chance to have a crack at it now, I want to find
people to mp it with in Aus :)
> R6/RS and SWAT3 are pretty good if you feel in an FPS rut too,
> sufficiently different from the run of the mill, imo.
I have actually got RS & SWAT3 but like I said FPS games are just boring me
too tears atm so I'm not intending to give either of these a crack again
anytime soon.
PilgriM
Paul Catley
> > Kinda sad when you can't have a game these days without somone having a
go
> > at you or wanting to argue, putting me off multiplayer games a bit atm.
> >
> Yup - the emphasis on multiplayer titles these days sadly ignores the
> fact that an awful lot of mp gamers seem to be total cockmonkeys, with no
> social skills.
U W4N|<3R!!!
U W4N|<3R!!!
U W4N|<3R!!!
U W4N|<3R!!!
> I tend to find games with folks I know these days -
> initially SWAT3 bashing with Paul et al, and letterly Paul and my
> occasional EAW/Flanker meets provide enough good humoured mp fun to get
> me by.
"Letterly Paul", that's me title. I haven't been quite so letterly
latterly, though.
> > Also getting sick of FPS games a bit, going to avoid them until HALO
comes
> > out, seriously considering getting a kick-as joystick & playing
Freelancer
> > when it is released, I missed the X-wing vs Tie-fighter craze while I
was
> > holidaying in Europe.
Such a waste of a kick-ass joystick ;-)
Only kidding, /me likes space-sims. Have you tried the I-War2 demo? You'll
need to get it off a cover disc, because it is 200MB! It plays pretty much
like I-War did, to be honest, but the visuals look even better (screenshots
don't do it justice). I can't figure out why my ship is transparent,
though.
> If you're grabbing a flight stick, I suggest a copy of EAW to go with it
> - one of the most enjoyable, and expandable games I've ever played - it's
> £3 most places over here now, and for the fun you'll get out of it, worth
> ten times that.
A fine suggestion.
While you are at it, you might as well pick up Enemy Engaged: Comanche v.
Hokum from the budget racks. It doesn't belong there :)
--
Paul
--
"Madness! Madness!"
Paul Catley
news:LVIa7.14743$A5.4...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au...
> > If you're grabbing a flight stick, I suggest a copy of EAW to go with it
>
> Funnily enough I did buy EAW a while back, started to get into it but CS
got
> in the way, gives me a chance to have a crack at it now, I want to find
> people to mp it with in Aus :)
EAW is very popular still, so you may find someone. Try asking in
news://comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim or in the forums. Wildy's the man
to tell you where those are, but you could start at www.simhq.com .
> > R6/RS and SWAT3 are pretty good if you feel in an FPS rut too,
> > sufficiently different from the run of the mill, imo.
>
> I have actually got RS & SWAT3 but like I said FPS games are just boring
me
> too tears atm so I'm not intending to give either of these a crack again
> anytime soon.
Have you tried SWAT3 online? You need the Elite Edition, if you haven't got
that already (free upgrade, big download). It is very different to other
online FPSs, IMO, and the best example of a co-op game that I've played.
The ordering system is very impressive, and cooperative players are easier
to find. This is probably due to the fact that individual heroics are
rewarded with a rapid death, which tends to put off the deathmatchers.
Playing "by the book", following the orders of your Element Leader, requires
discipline but it is very rewarding when you get a good result. You get a
warm teamy feeling :)
Another bonus with SWAT3 is that lag doesn't seem to affect it much. The
best game I ever played was a 3-man game with two tactically-minded guys
from Canada and Australia (I'm in the UK). I think one of them had cable,
but I was on ISDN. The Canadian gave the orders, while me and the Aussie
were grunts, obeying every word. It worked wonderfully. If you play the
game in a careful methodical style, the only thing that lag seems to affect
is how quickly the context-sensitive orders menu responds. Since nobody
moves until the orders are issued and acknowledged, inter-continental games
seem to run just fine :)
It is worth getting SWAT3 EE even if you don't play online. There are
several improvements, of which the best is the helmet-camera ordering
system.
If you are really utterly bored with FPSs and want something different, try
Falcon 4 or Jane's F/A-18 for a real challenge :) (Start with EAW though,
for your own sanity).
tom...@no.email.ads
<Robert_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I blame valve, in halflife type "god" for god mode thay try and turn ir off
>for multiplayer but if you make a game with no cheats AT ALL then no cheats
>word for that game and if you are saying WALL-HACK was not in halflife it
[long post about wall-hacking clipped]
there is a map maker's solution to the wall hack - the "sandwich". a
wall [regular brush] a block of SKY textured brush inside it, then
another wal [regular brush]. this will stop wall hacks.
but most mappers haven't bothered.
-------------------------
a half-life/counterstrike map site
http://members.telocity.com/pdebaan/tommy_cs.htm
---------------------------------------
WildStyle24_7
alt.games.half-life, and Paul Catley says to me...
> "Letterly Paul", that's me title. I haven't been quite so letterly
> latterly, though.
>
> While you are at it, you might as well pick up Enemy Engaged: Comanche v.
> Hokum from the budget racks. It doesn't belong there :)
>
'Tis good advice - that's a nice one in multiplayer too.
Are you up for some Flankering next NTL billing period Paul? I shall be
putting on the 2.51 Final patch and (crosses self) dx8.0a this weekend...
Paul Catley
> Are you up for some Flankering next NTL billing period Paul? I shall be
> putting on the 2.51 Final patch and (crosses self) dx8.0a this weekend...
It depends how well my upgrade goes :) Motherboard, memory, and heatsink
are all here. What I need now is something to put them all in, and a wee
little processor to make them do fun things. Luckily, both of those items
are in the post :) There will be a lot of installing to do when I get them.
Don't worry too much about DX8a, I just installed it, and so far everything
is working. Tested so far: sound & graphics cards, H&D, EAW, Falcon4,
F/A-18, MiG Alley, I-War2 demo (which actually works in DX7, though it says
it won't). I haven't tried Flanker or the patch yet though.
Jason
voice com, u can drive tanks, cars, boats,helicopters and planes, really
relistike and the US version is going to rule. I was at a lan and I brough
it and EVERYONE drops CS and played it for the whole time, there's a demo
too...
Give it a try.
Jason
Jason
too.
<tom...@no.email.ads> wrote in message
news:3b6ce960...@news.telocity.com...
Paul Catley
news:tmpn8u8...@corp.supernews.com...
Actually, I've been *dying* to give it a try; I've got the demo downloaded
already :) It has been raved about in my other regular newsgroup, though
strangely not here (not enough militarism ;-) ). Unfortunately, the demo
(not the final game) will only work with Win98, and atm I'm running Win95
Win98 is getting installed with the rest of my system upgrade.
WildStyle24_7
>
--
"My mind is made up- Don't bother me with facts!"
-Tom Cervo (Sarcastically) in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flightsim
Stormtrooper
you wanna play DM go play Quake... but for team play...CS
and it's been awhile i've played a TEAM match...i miss it so much !!
PilgriM
I don't know how long we can keep using the go play Quake for DM line :(
PilgriM
"Stormtrooper" <s_t_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7arvmt0ujso1saamk...@4ax.com...
WildStyle24_7
alt.games.half-life, and PilgriM says to me...
>
> Ironically Quake is probably more team orientated these days than CS is, so
> I don't know how long we can keep using the go play Quake for DM line :(
>
--
'The dancing of the world, hugging the other sex, set to music,
is sensual, and clearly caters to the lust of the flesh...
Line dancing is as sinful as any other type of sexual gestures
and touchings. It is sensual, not in a crucifying of lust but
an excitement to lust'
- Dr. Ian Paisley
Strider
> D00D! This is Team Fortress, if you want DM, go play CS!!!!!11
Join a clan j00 apes.
--
Scott Robson AKA Strider
ICQ - On request
E-Mail - Strider-da-monkey at blueyonder dot co dot uk
Homepage - www.aboutstrider.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Irc - irc.gamesnet.net #aghl
--
Daniel
Strider wrote:
> WildStyle24_7 proclaimed...
>
> > D00D! This is Team Fortress, if you want DM, go play CS!!!!!11
>
> Join a clan j00 apes.
Nah, clanies are the most irritating.
Strider
> Nah, clanies are the most irritating.
Spoken from a position of experience no doubt...
Civilian_Target
Let me correct that.
"Nah, clannies that are obsessed with getting frags are the most irritating"
I have come to the conclusion that there are 2 types of clannies. There's the type that charge in to get as many frags as possible before
telling you how "l33t" they are and that you should "ph33r" them. And then there's a rarer type (me looks @ strider) who go in to servers and
after a few rounds try to orgainise tactics within their team, then lead them to the front, before abandoning them all to get shot.....
Civilian_Target
Tadhg Pearson
tad...@bigfoot.com
ICQ: 23337589
---
"The great thing about pessimism is that you are either 'right as usual' or 'pleasently surprised'
Paul Catley
news:3b72771d...@news.indigo.ie...
> I have come to the conclusion that there are 2 types of clannies. There's
the type that charge in to get as many frags as possible before
> telling you how "l33t" they are and that you should "ph33r" them. And then
there's a rarer type (me looks @ strider) who go in to servers and
> after a few rounds try to orgainise tactics within their team, then lead
them to the front, before abandoning them all to get shot.....
You forgot the third type... the type that are all playing on the same
(public) server, all on the same team, all on RW, and won't recognise your
existence if auto-selection puts you on their side.
Strider
> I have come to the conclusion that there are 2 types of clannies. There's the type that charge in to get as many frags as possible before
> telling you how "l33t" they are and that you should "ph33r" them. And then there's a rarer type (me looks @ strider) who go in to servers and
> after a few rounds try to orgainise tactics within their team, then lead them to the front, before abandoning them all to get shot.....
Only you were insane enough to follow me Civ :)
Not even Vis follows me now.
Neil Jones
itsatmys...@thebottom.com (Strider) wrote:
>Civilian_Target proclaimed...
>> after a few rounds try to orgainise tactics within their team, then lead them to the front, before abandoning them all to get shot.....
>
>Only you were insane enough to follow me Civ :)
>
>Not even Vis follows me now.
Oh, I don't know. We miner's sons know all about the use of a canary in a
dangerous mineshaft...
"You take the point, Strider"
"Roger th..BOOM"
...
...
...
"Lets try the other way, Asni..."
___
Neil
AKA HighVis
"You woke up this morning, you got yourself a gun"
Strider
> Oh, I don't know. We miner's sons know all about the use of a canary in a
> dangerous mineshaft...
Oh great!, let me get this right, I can go into battle safe in the
knowledge that if I die it was taking bullets that would have otherwise
been taken by you.
/me draws his deagle
I'm gonna cram this up your ass!
Spyder Barques
Strider <itsatmys...@thebottom.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15de2455f...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
>
> I'm gonna cram this up your ass!
>
Oh, boy. Here he goes again....
--
thad
ffohkce at hotmail dot com
____________________________
Ancient Chinese proverb say:
"Man going through airport turnstile sideways is going to Bangkok."
Strider
> Oh, boy. Here he goes again....
Well Wildy called me a model aghl citizen the other day, so I'm kinda'
making up for last time
/me erects my middle finger to the room
$cR3w y0u!
Hmm, not very convincingly done... :/