The Facts: How a casual or non-raider survives
James Hicks
summary of the steps I had to take to bring Kuloth up to a point where he
could tank contemporary group content.
The reason why I'm posting this is that it is apparent to me that most
people who are in uberguilds are completely ignorant of what is neccessary
to keep up without an uberguild, and completely *disdainful* of the repeated
requests by the masses to make it more possible to do so. (note: possible -
not easier, not easy, just possible)
At the beginning of the scale, Kuloth is level 52 and has just solo fear
kited his last 6 levels in the dreadlands, because he was sick of grouping
with idiots and assholes, and soloing was faster back then if you were good
enough at it. At this point Kuloth is the 2nd highest level person in his
guild at 52 - in a fairly large family guild.
At the end of the scale, Kuloth is 65 with 108 AA's and about 7,500hp fully
buffed. Still nowhere near even vaguely credible for a raider, but for
somebody wearing zero raid loot who has bought zero plat, not too shabby.
Here Kuloth is in a weekend raiding guild who are equal to Grummus.
At 52, the first thing I needed to do was get some new gear. I was literally
wearing stuff that had either been dropped by mobs I had been grouping, or
quested. I was wearing three pieces of Darkforge (Sol Ro quest armour) and
they were my best pieces. If you can picture taking this outfit to PoI and
trying to tank, that's where I was at.
So I went to Rathe and fear kited giants for an absolute age, literally up
until the point where I never wanted to see another giant ever again, had
actually made hot buttons for /ooc statements such as "kill ALL of the
placeholders [lengthy explanation of what and why]", and had made a large
number of friends. We are talking serious time investment.
Geared up with bazaar crap to a sub-cultural level, (a full set of cultural
armour would have cost me around 15x 40 hour weeks of fear kiting giants), I
returned to the planes and attempted to tank. I must briefly mention here
the couple of hundred hours I spent building up my enchanter alt's smithing
skill to almost 200, only to realise the project was the MOST expensive way
of getting cultural armour for my main.
At this point, I made the following observations:
a) I could barely tank PoI mobs, but a single PoD mob could 4 round me
b) A warrior of comparable level/gear had almost a thousand extra hitpoints.
A 30% raw advantage.
c) most of the tanks I was competing with were massively twinked alts of
either level 65 casters or more rarely an uberguild member. It was quite
common to lose the MT slot to a warrior 5 levels below me.
d) The entire Planes of Power expansion assumed that a tank would be wearing
VT or at least ToV gear, marginalising the 90% of the playerbase incapable
of obtaining that shit.
e) I was (rightly) expected to be able to tank by every group
f) Pick up groups were still hell - idiots, assholes, people who leave after
one wipe, people who leave after 10 minutes, spending hours looking for a
cleric, or a slower...
Remember, this was back when "snap agro" hadn't been "invented" yet. I was
doing it - nobody could take agro off me during or after a pull if I wanted
to keep it - but something like 9 out of 10 slowers refused to *try* slowing
on incoming. Nevertheless, two things bore me out:
a) 100% effective agro control
b) Removal of the need for crowd control using FD with backup RD (real
death), since adds usually wiped the whole group.
I remember taking the entirity of level 53 in a single 11-hour grind in PoD.
However, things remained utter shit until the greatest thing that can
possibly befall a Shadowknight, landed in Kuloth's lap.
My friend's Shaman alt appeared. The SK/Shaman duo opened doors.
We duo'd 55-58 in PoN, using the combination of FD/RD pulling and the
excellent slow kill powers of this duo. We then moved to Velk's and I bought
my first cultural pieces by selling multiple SCHWs. We gave Old Seb a try,
and managed to upgrade my weapon to WMBS on funds obtained from there. WMBS
remained the best available weapon for a non-uberguilder until GoD.
Then Veksar arrived. Veksar is without doubt the best new zone for
non-uberguilders Sony have ever released. If they ever want to do something
for the forgotten 90% of their playerbase, they should base an entire
expansion on Veksar style encounters. I'm talking single-groupable or
duo-able camps with named mobs that drop genuine upgrades. 59-62 were almost
exclusively Veksar levels, and the seven pieces of loot I wore from Veksar
allowed me to subsequently tank PoV to 65. Selling extra Veksar drops
allowed me to buy other upgrades.
Then came a few hundred hours of LDoN, a quested Tactics key, and some
Tactics camping, and there we are, present day Kuloth.
Now, the thing I should mention is that I immensely enjoyed that entire
process. I found some of it disheartening, but the overwhelming result of
the struggle was an excellent game, and many hundreds of hours of engrossing
playtime. So if I found it fun, what do I want changed?
Every expansion should have, god forbid, at least one zone like Veksar,
where the other 90% of the population can obtain gear, through actual
stimulating challenges, that is almost equal to the 2nd best previous shit.
For GoD that would have been near-elemental quality drops falling off nameds
in a zone you don't need a single raid to get to. I don't give a rat damn
how hard you make it, so long as it's *possible*. So much of the expansions
I keep paying for is permanently locked away - doable single-group
encounters I can't even attempt because a 72-man VT-geared raid is in the
way. By all means have the mobs quad 900's and summon, or 1500's if you have
to. We'll work it out, we always do.
We're the guys who have always had to.
Regards,
James
Chuck
>non-uberguilders Sony have ever released. If they ever want to do something
>for the forgotten 90% of their playerbase, they should base an entire
>expansion on Veksar style encounters. I'm talking single-groupable or
>duo-able camps with named mobs that drop genuine upgrades. 59-62 were almost
>exclusively Veksar levels, and the seven pieces of loot I wore from Veksar
>allowed me to subsequently tank PoV to 65. Selling extra Veksar drops
>allowed me to buy other upgrades.
Yeah, that zone is "da bawm". Only managed to get a group togeather
for it on one occasion, but it was the most fun zone we have ever been
in. (Now if only our cleric didn't get shipped off to boot camp, we
could try it agin.)
-Chuck. (www.wormspeaker.com)
_____________________________________________________
Spread love and understanding...
but don't be afraid to bloody your knuckles doing it.
-Alex Ross
Kilmir
wrote:
<snip a life story>
>Every expansion should have, god forbid, at least one zone like Veksar,
>where the other 90% of the population can obtain gear, through actual
>stimulating challenges, that is almost equal to the 2nd best previous shit.
>For GoD that would have been near-elemental quality drops falling off nameds
>in a zone you don't need a single raid to get to. I don't give a rat damn
>how hard you make it, so long as it's *possible*. So much of the expansions
>I keep paying for is permanently locked away - doable single-group
>encounters I can't even attempt because a 72-man VT-geared raid is in the
>way. By all means have the mobs quad 900's and summon, or 1500's if you have
>to. We'll work it out, we always do.
>
>We're the guys who have always had to.
>
>Regards,
>James
As a head's up, GoD has some excellent zones to grab some gear for
casual players. In places like Qinimi, Ferubi, Riwwi and Barindu you
can probably duo and get some very nice random trash drops. Heck even
my semi-VT geared character is rolling for the range item in Ferubi.
The random trash loots are the way to go. The nameddrops are actually
worse then the rare trashloot, though much is still very usable by
many casual gamers. Especially the augments which drop like candy from
nameds in those zones (25 hp/mana/end) are a cheap way to get
upgrades.
Qinimi is the easiest and you should try that first to get a feel for
the dps, hp, procs etc of the mobs. The wanderers in the zone are
placeholders for 2 nameds, both can drop some dropable loot and aug's
IIRC. I only killed them for the BiC quest so only seen both up once
or so (never been there much aside from running to the other zones).
Then proceed to Riwwi and farm the arena dry (a guildie necro solo's a
lot there and is making nice pp with the named drops. he even wears 2
pieces himself). Leave the ghosts alone, just kill the guard golems
and all the mobs that wander into the arena to kick ghosts. Every so
often one of the wanderers is a named.
If you can take the Riwwi arena easy enough it's best to try Barindu.
I've not farmed much there myself, but the few mobs I downed were not
much harder then in Riwwi. Only singlepulling is a bit harder for a
mage :). The trashloots are a bit better then Qinimi and Riwwi, up to
VT/EP gear level I estimate.
Do NOT try the large axedude named in barindu though (yellow con).
He's damn hard, not any single group in my guild can take him (we need
at least 2 clerics + 1 patch - and that's just to keep the MT alive).
Lasty there is Ferubi. Several wanderers which move *fast*, usually 2
mobs close enough to not be able to single pull (for a
non-FD/FM/Pacify class that is) and hit harder and have more hp then
the other 3 zones. But if you can convince a group to try it here you
can get some nice exp and the occasional super drop.
My guild is farming a lot in ferubi these days (in single groups) and
we go in till about the middle of the zone, or a bit more south if
there's a mininamed up. The further you go in, the higher the mobs
become. At the zonelines (3 zonelines) mobs are all blue at lvl 65.
Somewhere around the middle you get white cons and the occasional
yellow one. South of the middle portion things start to be yellow a
lot.
My groups had 4 of the range items
(http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=26104) from there
now and 3 of the shoulders
(http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=26115) and that is
from just trashmobs. Heck, we even got one of the shoulders from the
first mob we pulled at the zoneline.
Good luck in GoD, the expansion has a bad rep, but for casuals it's
much better then you might expect. Especially since the nerfing down
of all the mobs to more reasonable hp / dps levels.
Rhand Drago'magica
Kilmir
AA# 1944
James Hicks
> casual players. In places like Qinimi, Ferubi, Riwwi and Barindu you
> can probably duo and get some very nice random trash drops. Heck even
> my semi-VT geared character is rolling for the range item in Ferubi.
Hmm thanks for that.
A few people in my guild are KT flagged now even, maybe I should give
this crap a go.
-martin
news:WlkMc.13474$K53....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> stimulating challenges, that is almost equal to the 2nd best previous
shit.
> For GoD that would have been near-elemental quality drops falling off
nameds
> in a zone you don't need a single raid to get to. I don't give a rat damn
> how hard you make it, so long as it's *possible*. So much of the
expansions
> I keep paying for is permanently locked away - doable single-group
> encounters I can't even attempt because a 72-man VT-geared raid is in the
> way. By all means have the mobs quad 900's and summon, or 1500's if you
have
> to. We'll work it out, we always do.
>
> We're the guys who have always had to.
New expansions give you more levels, more AA's, more spells and power, so
that YOU can do content with a lot less than we needed.
VT used to require a 50 person raid with several <key classes> and still had
a good chance of wiping. Nowadays VT can be 1-2 grouped, we had a mage tank
mini Aten about a year ago, a cleric tank the 1.something hitting aten
goos.. so im pretty sure you can tank it with a lot less than 72...
Kod'taz has gear equivalent to plane of time drops.. from random trash and 1
group named.. I eagerly await your next "I QUIT THIS SUCKS" post, because
you can't tank there either.
You want all the good stuff, without doing any of the work. Have you ever
actually worked on stuff like the VT key?
-m
James Hicks
> shit.
> > For GoD that would have been near-elemental quality drops falling off
> nameds
> > in a zone you don't need a single raid to get to. I don't give a rat
damn
> > how hard you make it, so long as it's *possible*. So much of the
> expansions
> > I keep paying for is permanently locked away - doable single-group
> > encounters I can't even attempt because a 72-man VT-geared raid is in
the
> > way. By all means have the mobs quad 900's and summon, or 1500's if you
> have
> > to. We'll work it out, we always do.
> >
> > We're the guys who have always had to.
>
> New expansions give you more levels, more AA's, more spells and power, so
> that YOU can do content with a lot less than we needed.
> VT used to require a 50 person raid with several <key classes> and still
had
> a good chance of wiping. Nowadays VT can be 1-2 grouped, we had a mage
tank
> mini Aten about a year ago, a cleric tank the 1.something hitting aten
> goos.. so im pretty sure you can tank it with a lot less than 72...
That's all true and applicable also. I wasn't trying to piss on raider
achievements Martin, I was trying to point out that trying to keep up
without being able to mount 70 person raids is *also* tough going.
> Kod'taz has gear equivalent to plane of time drops.. from random trash and
1
> group named.. I eagerly await your next "I QUIT THIS SUCKS" post, because
> you can't tank there either.
With regrets I must inform you that you are unlikely to see such a post.
But if I can get into that zone I'll certainly try it on :)
> You want all the good stuff, without doing any of the work.
I'd be interested to see the reasoning you use to draw that conclusion -
care to elaborate?
> Have you ever
> actually worked on stuff like the VT key?
Depends, what else is like the VT key? I haven't actually worked on a VT
key, since neither of the two guilds I've been in have ever had any
intention of raiding it (and frankly, thank heavens for that, the whole
thing sounds completely shite - I can see how when it was the end game
people would bother, but when it's 3 expansions behind, just no)
Probably the most unrewarding asshole quest I ever did was soloing
darkforge in my early 30's, after that I pretty much gave questing a big
miss. My best current item is the 1492 Tak breastplate with FT2 - that took
some doing for a guy with no raid gear, but no I wouldn't line it up next to
a multi-raided VT key.
Cheers,
James
> -m
Ben Sisson
name "James Hicks" <nos...@forme.plz>:
>> Have you ever
>> actually worked on stuff like the VT key?
>
> Depends, what else is like the VT key?
I'd have to say nothing else in the entire game is like the VT key.
Some quests are miniature versions of it, but there is no quest with
the sheer raw tedium of camping 10 shards, all of which are dropping
from mobs either in inconvenient places, far below you in power, or
with grotesquely bad drop rates, or all three of those at once. And
then even then you're not done as you need a drop from a luclin
miniboss somewhere (mostly one groupable now but not originally) and a
drop from emp ssra, a raid target who himself needs four MORE drops
from rarish spawns (other than the taskmasters). All this to get into
a zone where the mobs have seemingly millions (literally millions in
the case of the bosses) of hp, some of which split into another mob
when killed, making it by far the most boring place in EQ.
Not exactly stellar design.
--
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
Bertrand Russell
D.J.
"James Hicks" <nos...@forme.plz> wrote:
] A couple of recent threads have prompted me to post this, which will be a
] summary of the steps I had to take to bring Kuloth up to a point where he
] could tank contemporary group content.
I've stayed away from, or had my character run from, anything that
/con higher than my characters. Got one War to 9, another to 7, the
rest are 4 or 5 War. Still mny characters died a few times, but I've
managed fairly well so far.
I still see players have their characters attack monsters that /con
red or yellow to them. As an example, a first level druid taking on
a fire beetle outside Freeport. Probably didn't take, or maybe they
didn't pay much attention to, the tutorial.
If as mentioned here, that the folks who play as they get time, or
they solo, are 90 percent of the players, then Sony has its head up
a black hole and shouldn't ignore their cash flow on those accounts.
JimP.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/ July 20, 2004 Everquest
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ July 14, 2004:
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html July 24, 2004 AD&D
Hippie Ramone
: Kod'taz has gear equivalent to plane of time drops.. from random trash and 1
: group named.. I eagerly await your next "I QUIT THIS SUCKS" post, because
: you can't tank there either.
While I'm not in the same state as James getting into KT isn't a stroll
through the rose garden. 1st mob he won't be able to tank on the way there
will be the Boss of sewer 1. It sucks. After that the other sewer trials
are mindbogglingly wimpy to the degree that a ranger can MT them. Then
the mountain trials. Plate melee don't tank there either really, we are
just speedbumps for the charmed hasted pooka. Hell, I had more fun playing
around in Air with the retarted mana sucking splitters than I've had in
the mountain trials.
K
Remington Stone
>VT used to require a 50 person raid with several <key classes> and still had
>a good chance of wiping. Nowadays VT can be 1-2 grouped, we had a mage tank
>mini Aten about a year ago, a cleric tank the 1.something hitting aten
>goos.. so im pretty sure you can tank it with a lot less than 72...
Hmm. Is Emperor 1-2 groupable yet? I've had no luck convincing my guild
going to VT is a worthwhile idea at all, but I've got two of the pieces
for emp key... If I only had to convince 1-2 groups to get keyed, maybe I
could get there.
Besides, I really want the robe he drops. :)
[65 Coercer] Zinphandel Chianti <Prism> (Gnome) Ayonae Ro
Remington Stone
>I still see players have their characters attack monsters that /con
>red or yellow to them. As an example, a first level druid taking on
>a fire beetle outside Freeport. Probably didn't take, or maybe they
>didn't pay much attention to, the tutorial.
Possible. But it could also be that the druid is that player's 12th
character. He may already know how to play so well that he can defeaat
the yellow /con with only moderate difficulty. Or he may be wearing
impressive armor or buffs handed down by his main, making it trivial.
Or he may be working on defense skillups in a rather tedious way. :)
It being a druid, most likely he just got the level 1 spell flame lick,
tried to cast it, and discovered he needed a fire beetle eye in order to
cast it...
http://69.57.151.222/archive.html?159?#29
James Grahame
"James Hicks" <nos...@forme.plz> wrote in message
news:WlkMc.13474$K53....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> The reason why I'm posting this is that it is apparent to me that most
> people who are in uberguilds are completely ignorant of what is neccessary
> to keep up without an uberguild, and completely *disdainful* of the
repeated
> requests by the masses to make it more possible to do so. (note:
possible -
> not easier, not easy, just possible)
I'll point out places where I think you got it right, and where you got
it wrong.
> At the beginning of the scale, Kuloth is level 52 and has just solo fear
> kited his last 6 levels in the dreadlands, because he was sick of grouping
> with idiots and assholes
Unless you're in a guild with people your level, you're stuck with what
you get when doing pick-up. That's been true since day one, and is the
toughest part of grouping. The good news is the more grouping you do, the
more you learn who your level is an asshat and who knows their stuff. By
soloing 6 levels, you've lost some of that info. Making good contacts is an
important part of EQ.
> At the end of the scale, Kuloth is 65 with 108 AA's and about 7,500hp
fully
> buffed. Still nowhere near even vaguely credible for a raider, but for
> somebody wearing zero raid loot who has bought zero plat, not too shabby.
> Here Kuloth is in a weekend raiding guild who are equal to Grummus.
108 AA's and 7500 raid buffed is nothing to sneeze at. I'd consider that
very successful.
> At 52, the first thing I needed to do was get some new gear. I was
literally
> wearing stuff that had either been dropped by mobs I had been grouping, or
> quested. I was wearing three pieces of Darkforge (Sol Ro quest armour) and
> they were my best pieces. If you can picture taking this outfit to PoI and
> trying to tank, that's where I was at.
So why go to PoI? Each expansion is playtested by people wearing all the
latest stuff from the previous expansions, so a level 40 mob from GoD is a
lot tougher than a level 40 mob from Kunark even though both likely give the
same or similar XP. Use that to your advantage. Karnor's would have been a
good place to go, especially if you had guild friends that could go with
you. It was designed with people with only Fear/Hate armour and weaponry
like the Dark Reaver, so even in Darkforge you would have made a credible
tank.
> My friend's Shaman alt appeared. The SK/Shaman duo opened doors.
Friends open up a lot of places that may be too low population for
pickup groups. This allowed you to pick whatever zone suited you best.
> We duo'd 55-58 in PoN, using the combination of FD/RD pulling and the
> excellent slow kill powers of this duo. We then moved to Velk's and I
bought
> my first cultural pieces by selling multiple SCHWs. We gave Old Seb a try,
> and managed to upgrade my weapon to WMBS on funds obtained from there.
WMBS
> remained the best available weapon for a non-uberguilder until GoD.
WMBS was also pretty underpriced for the longest time, until people
who'd parsed opened their mouths. Knowing the bargains in The Bazaar can
really stretch that plat out. Note that you were gearing up off content that
was several expansions old - as intended. A lot of people skip to more
modern content, with the relatively low plat drops/item drops, and end up
high level with poor gear because of it.
> Then Veksar arrived. Veksar is without doubt the best new zone for
> non-uberguilders Sony have ever released. If they ever want to do
something
> for the forgotten 90% of their playerbase, they should base an entire
> expansion on Veksar style encounters. I'm talking single-groupable or
> duo-able camps with named mobs that drop genuine upgrades.
This isn't good for the game, though, because what you could do solo or
with a friend, a real soloist (65 ENC or NEC) can do several of. There's
already 65 ENCs on my server that camp most of Veksar at once. That means
content that should occupy several people to justify the development cost is
only occupying a few, and the game gets mudflated severely with several
quality droppables being farmed 24/7. It would be better if solo/duo
LDoN-style adventures were made, so Mr. Uberfarmer couldn't bottom feed his
way to glory.
> Now, the thing I should mention is that I immensely enjoyed that entire
> process. I found some of it disheartening, but the overwhelming result of
> the struggle was an excellent game, and many hundreds of hours of
engrossing
> playtime. So if I found it fun, what do I want changed?
>
> Every expansion should have, god forbid, at least one zone like Veksar,
> where the other 90% of the population can obtain gear, through actual
> stimulating challenges, that is almost equal to the 2nd best previous
shit.
Veksar wasn't close to this, unless you're talking about the raid drops
from the dragon. Kylong Darkmail is good, but it doesn't compare to Velious
end raid drops (which would be the comparable 2nd best previous). Compare
that 12/20 1HS to a 13/20-and-procs-Avatar-for-100-ATK weapon from
Sleeper's - not close.
> For GoD that would have been near-elemental quality drops falling off
nameds
> in a zone you don't need a single raid to get to.
Honestly, I think the stuff falling in the Sewer trials in Barindu meets
your qualifications, except that I don't believe it's duoable/soloable. But
you've got stuff in there that equals or betters LDoN Hard drops, only the
mobs generally aren't as tough as LDoN Hard.
Were I you, the next step would be LDoN hard adventures. The XP is
fairly close to the vaunted elemental XP, and the drops are real upgrades
with some nice foci/effects. It might even be worth taking losses on LDoN
hards and just farming them for the drops.
James
hughes
> going to VT is a worthwhile idea at all, but I've got two of the pieces
> for emp key... If I only had to convince 1-2 groups to get keyed, maybe I
> could get there.
Probably. The last time we did him was with 21 people on an off raid night
and that was over a year ago. Groups are going to look a bit weird though.
You need good numbers of shamans and enchanters to slow/ mezz the adds for
the 30 minutes the fight will take.
If you can get to earth/fire/air/water they all give better reward for the
effort in raiding.
-martin
news:ce3fc3$9vq$1...@brand.scrye.com...
> While I'm not in the same state as James getting into KT isn't a stroll
> through the rose garden. 1st mob he won't be able to tank on the way
there
> will be the Boss of sewer 1. It sucks. After that the other sewer
trials
> are mindbogglingly wimpy to the degree that a ranger can MT them. Then
Well i have zero knowledge of the end parts of the sewers... I don't think i
ever went deeper than 20 or so mins clearing into the zone (name farming for
spells)
But the incredibly tough boss 1, incredibly weak boss 2 isnt new to me...
Ikkinz (after kod'taz) had a simialr deal (been revamped and gimped since)
where trial 1 was almost impossible, and trial 2-3 could be beaten on the
first try/day.
> the mountain trials. Plate melee don't tank there either really, we are
> just speedbumps for the charmed hasted pooka. Hell, I had more fun
playing
> around in Air with the retarted mana sucking splitters than I've had in
> the mountain trials.
Have never done a tipt or vxed that used a charmed mob, either for clearing
or killing the named.
Every tipt I did was with a warrior/paladin MA, and monk/SK as ramp tank
Aside from the pain in the ass factor of having to flag a guild.. i haven't
met too many people who didn't enjoy the tipt design/content
-m
-martin
news:ce3ouo$5dc$1...@woodrow.ucdavis.edu...
> Hmm. Is Emperor 1-2 groupable yet? I've had no luck convincing my guild
> going to VT is a worthwhile idea at all, but I've got two of the pieces
> for emp key... If I only had to convince 1-2 groups to get keyed, maybe I
> could get there.
2 groups sure. for lesser than time, maybe 3 groups.
we've had some whacky pickup raids, where shamans tanked 2 jail mobs each,
just 1 cleric/druid to heal the MA etc :) Havent been back since GoD (or
even for a long time in PoP) but its fair to say every new expansion halves
or more the required forces (e.g 2 people/3char kills of king tormax now, 1
group in PoP, and 3-4 groups in SoL)
-m
-martin
> That's all true and applicable also. I wasn't trying to piss on raider
> achievements Martin, I was trying to point out that trying to keep up
> without being able to mount 70 person raids is *also* tough going.
Oh its ok, i don't try to be one of those that, the "we had it harder in my
day! your achievement means squat" type people
The point you missed though, whilst originally the zones would of required
huge numbers, as the game has moved on, the requirements have dramatically
dropped. YOU in your level of gear and guild could be doing those places
successfully with 30, not 70.
> I'd be interested to see the reasoning you use to draw that
conclusion -
> care to elaborate?
well you use an inability to field 70 people as a reason/excuse for not
doing raidzone_01 or mob_02
> intention of raiding it (and frankly, thank heavens for that, the whole
> thing sounds completely shite - I can see how when it was the end game
> people would bother, but when it's 3 expansions behind, just no)
Well the reason why people do it 3 years later... is because now they can
clear the zone in a few hours, with just 30 or so velious geared people.
Requiring high-end Luclin gear then no, its not necessarily good value
compared to jumping into PoP... but coming from some place like Velious,
well its easily attainable loot with good hp/mana/effects/focus, in huge
quantities, without a massive online presence.
Btw the quest may sound shit... but imagine being part of a guild supporting
each other to key up... camping parts for others, keeping them company for
the hell camps, in addition to your own.. keys for needed alts, r/l partners
etc.. that was the definition of ultra shit :(
<-- did it 3 times for alt/wife.. and countless times for 1/4 of the guild
Like Ben said, it was a shithole plan :)
> miss. My best current item is the 1492 Tak breastplate with FT2 - that
took
> some doing for a guy with no raid gear, but no I wouldn't line it up next
to
> a multi-raided VT key.
Well post a magelo. I bet theres a whole wardobe of gear we could recommend
from mobs that would take *you* less than 3 groups!
-m
Remington Stone
>> Hmm. Is Emperor 1-2 groupable yet? I've had no luck convincing my guild
>> going to VT is a worthwhile idea at all, but I've got two of the pieces
>> for emp key... If I only had to convince 1-2 groups to get keyed, maybe I
>> could get there.
>Probably. The last time we did him was with 21 people on an off raid night
>and that was over a year ago. Groups are going to look a bit weird though.
>You need good numbers of shamans and enchanters to slow/ mezz the adds for
>the 30 minutes the fight will take.
Hmm. How many adds we talkin' here?
>If you can get to earth/fire/air/water they all give better reward for the
>effort in raiding.
Yea, that's what people keep telling me. But I've yet to see the
Elemental drop that will let me in Vex Thal, much less get all those @#$%!
Shards of Luclin out of my bank. I started a quest, I wanna bloody well
finish it. :)
Ben Sisson
>hughes said:
>>> Hmm. Is Emperor 1-2 groupable yet? I've had no luck convincing my guild
>>> going to VT is a worthwhile idea at all, but I've got two of the pieces
>>> for emp key... If I only had to convince 1-2 groups to get keyed, maybe I
>>> could get there.
>>Probably. The last time we did him was with 21 people on an off raid night
>>and that was over a year ago. Groups are going to look a bit weird though.
>>You need good numbers of shamans and enchanters to slow/ mezz the adds for
>>the 30 minutes the fight will take.
>
>Hmm. How many adds we talkin' here?
Eight I think, four unmezzable, and you can't kill them. While a high
end GoD guild would probably be able to do with two groups (slowly), a
guild who would still be getting upgrades from VT would be foolish to
go with less than twice that and probably should have rather more.
James Hicks
news:1ZeNc.120366$eO.55772@edtnps89...
> Before I comment, awesome post. =)
Thankee... don't think anyone's ever said that about one of my posts
before.
> > At the beginning of the scale, Kuloth is level 52 and has just solo fear
> > kited his last 6 levels in the dreadlands, because he was sick of
grouping
> > with idiots and assholes
>
> Unless you're in a guild with people your level, you're stuck with
what
> you get when doing pick-up. That's been true since day one, and is the
> toughest part of grouping. The good news is the more grouping you do, the
> more you learn who your level is an asshat and who knows their stuff. By
> soloing 6 levels, you've lost some of that info. Making good contacts is
an
> important part of EQ.
In retrospect, I agree that it was poor strategy at the time, however,
it got me to 52 probably faster than I otherwise would have got there (I
really WAS sick of grouping), and it did put me in a rather weak situation
which was then a nice challenge to get out of :)
> > At 52, the first thing I needed to do was get some new gear. I was
> literally
> > wearing stuff that had either been dropped by mobs I had been grouping,
or
> > quested. I was wearing three pieces of Darkforge (Sol Ro quest armour)
and
> > they were my best pieces. If you can picture taking this outfit to PoI
and
> > trying to tank, that's where I was at.
>
> So why go to PoI? Each expansion is playtested by people wearing all
the
> latest stuff from the previous expansions, so a level 40 mob from GoD is a
> lot tougher than a level 40 mob from Kunark even though both likely give
the
> same or similar XP. Use that to your advantage. Karnor's would have been a
> good place to go, especially if you had guild friends that could go with
> you. It was designed with people with only Fear/Hate armour and weaponry
> like the Dark Reaver, so even in Darkforge you would have made a credible
> tank.
Because I had been shown it and realised the experience was almost
double what I would make anywhere else, and I knew that I could gear up a
little and then tank there. I guess I was also determined that being a tank,
and therefore gear-dependant, would not lock me out of the faster
experience.
Karnors seemed to be worse experience than soloing - hence why I did 52
solo in the dreadlands instead of going to karnors at 50 like everyone else.
I suppose you can read a lot into that, but I did try other zones as
well - soloing in maiden's eye was abysmally slow and not very challenging,
and non-planar groups tended to consist of all kinds of people who couldn't
make it in the planes (as well as people who could, but didn't want to for
whatever reason of course)
> > my first cultural pieces by selling multiple SCHWs. We gave Old Seb a
try,
> > and managed to upgrade my weapon to WMBS on funds obtained from there.
> WMBS
> > remained the best available weapon for a non-uberguilder until GoD.
>
> WMBS was also pretty underpriced for the longest time, until people
> who'd parsed opened their mouths. Knowing the bargains in The Bazaar can
> really stretch that plat out. Note that you were gearing up off content
that
> was several expansions old - as intended. A lot of people skip to more
> modern content, with the relatively low plat drops/item drops, and end up
> high level with poor gear because of it.
Yeah, I wanted one very early on, having done the maths myself, but
unfortunately when we bought the price was rising again because others had
cottoned on - still it's been worth the money, only just replaced the thing
the other night.
> > Then Veksar arrived. Veksar is without doubt the best new zone for
> > non-uberguilders Sony have ever released. If they ever want to do
> something
> > for the forgotten 90% of their playerbase, they should base an entire
> > expansion on Veksar style encounters. I'm talking single-groupable or
> > duo-able camps with named mobs that drop genuine upgrades.
>
> This isn't good for the game, though, because what you could do solo
or
> with a friend, a real soloist (65 ENC or NEC) can do several of. There's
> already 65 ENCs on my server that camp most of Veksar at once. That means
> content that should occupy several people to justify the development cost
is
> only occupying a few, and the game gets mudflated severely with several
> quality droppables being farmed 24/7. It would be better if solo/duo
> LDoN-style adventures were made, so Mr. Uberfarmer couldn't bottom feed
his
> way to glory.
That is a problem with the necro and enchanter classes, and it should
not be worked around by denying content and drops to single and small groups
of other classes.
> > Every expansion should have, god forbid, at least one zone like Veksar,
> > where the other 90% of the population can obtain gear, through actual
> > stimulating challenges, that is almost equal to the 2nd best previous
> shit.
>
> Veksar wasn't close to this, unless you're talking about the raid
drops
> from the dragon. Kylong Darkmail is good, but it doesn't compare to
Velious
> end raid drops (which would be the comparable 2nd best previous). Compare
> that 12/20 1HS to a 13/20-and-procs-Avatar-for-100-ATK weapon from
> Sleeper's - not close.
I found that for a hybrid tank the drops were right up there - I haven't
done a comparison with top-end velious, but certainly drops such as the
ritual talisman of fate, boots of the kunzar wanderer, the nice plate helm
etc were the best I could lay hands on until LDoN.
Maybe I don't actually care how the drops compare to the top level
stuff, but I do expect to be able to group upgrades to my group-drop gear in
each expansion. It looks like I can (barely) do this with GoD so maybe I'm
happy with it, time will tell.
> > For GoD that would have been near-elemental quality drops falling off
> nameds
> > in a zone you don't need a single raid to get to.
>
> Honestly, I think the stuff falling in the Sewer trials in Barindu
meets
> your qualifications, except that I don't believe it's duoable/soloable.
But
> you've got stuff in there that equals or betters LDoN Hard drops, only the
> mobs generally aren't as tough as LDoN Hard.
Having only done one of the Sewer trials, I have limited scope for
comment, but I can say that although the trials themselves might be
unwinnable for a duo, the shammy/SK duo I used to form would crush those
mobs like the bugs they are. Named might be a challenge tho :>
I look forward to seeing some drops on the other trials :)
> Were I you, the next step would be LDoN hard adventures. The XP is
> fairly close to the vaunted elemental XP, and the drops are real upgrades
> with some nice foci/effects. It might even be worth taking losses on LDoN
> hards and just farming them for the drops.
I've done a few HarDoN's and have had one upgrade drop so far. I mainly
like them for the exp and the huge points - when elemental level gear lands
on LDoN merchants I will probably be HarDoNing my way to it in short order.
I kinda got burned out on LDoN's though, there was a loooong period
where we didn't have the firepower or armour to tackle the hards, and
getting even four pieces of LDoN gear at 51pts/adventure inevitably means
some insanely repetitive work. Not a good peice of design, that.
Cheers,
James
> James
>
>
James Hicks
news:2mlo12F...@uni-berlin.de...
> "James Hicks" <nos...@forme.plz> wrote in message
> news:KM7Nc.17622$K53....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > That's all true and applicable also. I wasn't trying to piss on
raider
> > achievements Martin, I was trying to point out that trying to keep up
> > without being able to mount 70 person raids is *also* tough going.
>
> Oh its ok, i don't try to be one of those that, the "we had it harder in
my
> day! your achievement means squat" type people
>
> The point you missed though, whilst originally the zones would of required
> huge numbers, as the game has moved on, the requirements have dramatically
> dropped. YOU in your level of gear and guild could be doing those places
> successfully with 30, not 70.
The requirements have dropped, but so have the relative rewards - to the
point where (for example) almost no guild is making a serious attempt to key
up for VT - there are simply better ways to get that level of gear now, even
though the barriers are lower due to everyone being higher level and already
having crap they stumbled on in Veksar, or bought from a McLDoN McMerchant.
I guess this has as much to do with the rate of mudflation as anything -
and it probably pisses me off more than it does you - but the fact is that
most of the raid targets my guild can now hit, are no longer worth hitting.
I can't tell you how pissed off I was when we finally started hitting THO.
*just* at that point it got to the stage where I no longer coveted his FT3
helm, after 40 levels of drooling over it and praying for one day...
And by the time we can smack past the 70-person blockage in PoP and
access the stuff we could probably drop NOW, we will be level 70 nutcases
wearing GoD drops and bazaar catch-ups that make elemental gear barely worth
the effort, if at all.
But I must stress: I accept most of that as the lot of the
non-uberguildie. The parts I have problems with are the 70-person raids
blocking access to the 30-person raids or single-group content. The raiding
content should be in order of difficulty, and at no point should somone who
can't mount raids be locked out of more than one or two zones per expansion.
If you gotta key off half a zone, make most of that half questable.
> > I'd be interested to see the reasoning you use to draw that
> conclusion -
> > care to elaborate?
>
> well you use an inability to field 70 people as a reason/excuse for not
> doing raidzone_01 or mob_02
So how does my taking part in a 40 person raid differ in effort from
your taking part in a 70 person raid?
> > intention of raiding it (and frankly, thank heavens for that, the whole
> > thing sounds completely shite - I can see how when it was the end game
> > people would bother, but when it's 3 expansions behind, just no)
>
> Well the reason why people do it 3 years later... is because now they can
> clear the zone in a few hours, with just 30 or so velious geared people.
> Requiring high-end Luclin gear then no, its not necessarily good value
> compared to jumping into PoP... but coming from some place like Velious,
> well its easily attainable loot with good hp/mana/effects/focus, in huge
> quantities, without a massive online presence.
Hmm, there is no such thing as a velious or a luclin geared person
anymore, you are aware of that, no?
> Btw the quest may sound shit... but imagine being part of a guild
supporting
> each other to key up... camping parts for others, keeping them company for
> the hell camps, in addition to your own.. keys for needed alts, r/l
partners
> etc.. that was the definition of ultra shit :(
>
> <-- did it 3 times for alt/wife.. and countless times for 1/4 of the guild
>
> Like Ben said, it was a shithole plan :)
Yeah, huge part of the reason why *nobody* is doing it anymore.
> > miss. My best current item is the 1492 Tak breastplate with FT2 - that
> took
> > some doing for a guy with no raid gear, but no I wouldn't line it up
next
> to
> > a multi-raided VT key.
>
> Well post a magelo. I bet theres a whole wardobe of gear we could
recommend
> from mobs that would take *you* less than 3 groups!
>
> -m
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=794046
The AA's and aug's might be a bit off but the gear pieces are at least
there and the numbers seem close to accurate.
Cheers,
James
Graeme Faelban
news:tkibg0t0088m71erb...@4ax.com:
Yep, 8 adds, four unmezzable. As I recall, some are unslowable as well,
they may be the mezzable ones though. If you kill the adds, they repop
in 30 seconds as I recall.
--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 29 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons
Hippie Ramone
: Have never done a tipt or vxed that used a charmed mob, either for clearing
: or killing the named.
: Every tipt I did was with a warrior/paladin MA, and monk/SK as ramp tank
There's a bigass difference between a plate tank with 10k+hp unbuffed and
buttloads of +shielding and a 9.6k buffed no +shielding plate tank. :)
Our lead GoD exploration team is War, Pal, Shm, Dru, Enc, Rog (Notice all
the healing redundancy) any they don't try to actually tank stuff but
use Mr. Pooka to do the work. I'm in team 2 and when we dropped a DPS class
for a Dru things got way way easier. Team 2 is War, Clr, Dru, Nec, Enc, Rng
just for information purposes. Our first trip to the mountains was kinda
ugly but that's mostly a matter of getting a feel for the mobs and reacting
appropriately. T2 will get into KT eventually. May have to sub in a Rog to
do a SoS run for the win but it'll get there. We will use pooka's for the
DPS tho. Wins for both Team1 and Team2 just are not going to happen without
them.
: Aside from the pain in the ass factor of having to flag a guild.. i haven't
: met too many people who didn't enjoy the tipt design/content
I'm mostly pissed off at the existance of GoD so take my comments on the
content there with a cow-lick of salt. :) That said, there is some fun stuff
there. CoW event in Barindu is kinda fun, especially the mayhem on pulling
the non-mez non-charm golem things before going after the snakes. Zum Votal
is a fun mob to kill as well with some pretty nice drops. Our raid leader
doesn't want to try the Ferubi Packmaster quite yet but hell, I think learing
how hard it would stomp us into paste would be informative. Our 1 win
at the Qinimi Dome event turned kinda south since 30s after the win we all
got ported out so all the drops got wasted. Talk about suck.
K
D.J.
ez06...@veni.ucdavis.edu (Remington Stone) wrote:
] D.J. said:
] >I still see players have their characters attack monsters that /con
] >red or yellow to them. As an example, a first level druid taking on
] >a fire beetle outside Freeport. Probably didn't take, or maybe they
] >didn't pay much attention to, the tutorial.
]
] Possible. But it could also be that the druid is that player's 12th
] character. He may already know how to play so well that he can defeaat
Thats possible to, but he appeared to die rather often for a twinked
character.
I created a shaman character just to try one out. I learned rather
quickly to keep that blunt weapon handy.
] Or he may be working on defense skillups in a rather tedious way. :)
Very tedious. Died often. I guess that will increase the defense
skill. :-)
Ben Sisson
> But I must stress: I accept most of that as the lot of the
>non-uberguildie. The parts I have problems with are the 70-person raids
>blocking access to the 30-person raids or single-group content. The raiding
>content should be in order of difficulty, and at no point should somone who
>can't mount raids be locked out of more than one or two zones per expansion.
>If you gotta key off half a zone, make most of that half questable.
I agree with that 100%.
James Grahame
"James Hicks" <nos...@forme.plz> wrote in message
> or
> > with a friend, a real soloist (65 ENC or NEC) can do several of. There's
> > already 65 ENCs on my server that camp most of Veksar at once. That
means
> > content that should occupy several people to justify the development
cost
> is
> > only occupying a few, and the game gets mudflated severely with several
> > quality droppables being farmed 24/7. It would be better if solo/duo
> > LDoN-style adventures were made, so Mr. Uberfarmer couldn't bottom feed
> his
> > way to glory.
>
> That is a problem with the necro and enchanter classes, and it should
> not be worked around by denying content and drops to single and small
groups
> of other classes.
A SHM, DRU, MAG, BST could also all solo camps in there, just not as
many at once. We used to have a druid in guild that would go to Droga on
server-up, hit tracking, and kill any named in the place that was up. It's
tough to design content that level-appropriate people can duo but which
cannot be soloed by someone of higher level. Far better to keep the higher
levels out, and the best system for that is LDoN.
James
Remington Stone
>name ez06...@veni.ucdavis.edu (Remington Stone):
>>hughes said:
>>>> Hmm. Is Emperor 1-2 groupable yet? I've had no luck convincing my guild
>>>> going to VT is a worthwhile idea at all, but I've got two of the pieces
>>>> for emp key... If I only had to convince 1-2 groups to get keyed, maybe I
>>>> could get there.
>>>Probably. The last time we did him was with 21 people on an off raid night
>>>and that was over a year ago. Groups are going to look a bit weird though.
>>>You need good numbers of shamans and enchanters to slow/ mezz the adds for
>>>the 30 minutes the fight will take.
>>Hmm. How many adds we talkin' here?
>Eight I think, four unmezzable,
Sounds like 1-2 enchanters and 4 offtanks then? Can you tell the mezzable
from the un?
I don't suppose any of those guys are charmable... :) Our enchanters are
bored lately, and wondering what a six-enc group could accomplish. :)
>and you can't kill them.
Is that as in, you need shissarbane to kill them, or they're totally
immune to bloody everything and depop when emp dies? It sounds like, if
theyconveniently depop when emp dies, it's probably not -worth- trying to
kill them.
>While a high
>end GoD guild would probably be able to do with two groups (slowly), a
>guild who would still be getting upgrades from VT would be foolish to
>go with less than twice that and probably should have rather more.
Well, how about a middling-end elemental guild?
Michael Johnson
<kde...@scrye.com> wrote:
>-martin <nospam-vil...@cheerful.com> wrote:
>: Have never done a tipt or vxed that used a charmed mob, either for clearing
>: or killing the named.
>: Every tipt I did was with a warrior/paladin MA, and monk/SK as ramp tank
>
>There's a bigass difference between a plate tank with 10k+hp unbuffed and
>buttloads of +shielding and a 9.6k buffed no +shielding plate tank. :)
Hi.. welcome to my world.. 9.7k/1700AC. If your AC is low thats
probably why you have trouble tanking there.
>Our lead GoD exploration team is War, Pal, Shm, Dru, Enc, Rog (Notice all
>the healing redundancy) any they don't try to actually tank stuff but
>use Mr. Pooka to do the work.
Yup.. and with pet tanking i'll bet you pick pieces of your group
members off the walls that way pretty often. It can work.. but the
number of things that can go wrong is so high it isn't even funny. Pet
tanking in GoD is a great way to get yourself killed. If you go pet
dps, the healing for a 9.6k tank isn't that bad so long as the charm
is in effect. Mobs drop 10-15 seconds which is like a patch each from
cleric and druid. Always make sure you go full out on the pet. Mage
pet items, haste, ndt, etc. I prefer flinty cragbeasts for charm pet.
>I'm in team 2 and when we dropped a DPS class for a Dru things got way
>way easier.
Definately a good move. Clr/Dru on healing is pretty essential.
>Team 2 is War, Clr, Dru, Nec, Enc, Rng just for information purposes.
I consider 3 key aspects to safe charming in Tipt, especially in
pickup group(not what yours is, but usually what I run into). Charmer
with TD3, Snarer, and a stunner that is not the Cleric. You just left
out stunner. It can work.. but your enchanter will have to make sure
he keeps distance at all times, and that can be difficult with the
tight confines. I prefer wizard on the stunning portion due to 8
second stuns. The 3 working together can get a freshly charmed mob
back to adding dps in no more than 15-20 seconds. Other forms of CC
like rooting or mezzing the break can be problematic on time or
movement, and as you know a tank without pet dps can drain healer mana
pretty fast. Your group 1 with the paladin should work pretty well for
the stunning aspect.
When doing Tipt I usually try to sprint and rest, getting through a
set of mobs up to safe area and then medding up for the next set. And
as you know the boss is just a matter of WS or Furious by the warrior
while the pet beats the tar out of the mob.
-MJ
Ben Sisson
name ez06...@veni.ucdavis.edu (Remington Stone):
>Ben Sisson said:
>>name ez06...@veni.ucdavis.edu (Remington Stone):
>>>hughes said:
>>>>> Hmm. Is Emperor 1-2 groupable yet? I've had no luck convincing my guild
>>>>> going to VT is a worthwhile idea at all, but I've got two of the pieces
>>>>> for emp key... If I only had to convince 1-2 groups to get keyed, maybe I
>>>>> could get there.
>>>>Probably. The last time we did him was with 21 people on an off raid night
>>>>and that was over a year ago. Groups are going to look a bit weird though.
>>>>You need good numbers of shamans and enchanters to slow/ mezz the adds for
>>>>the 30 minutes the fight will take.
>>>Hmm. How many adds we talkin' here?
>>Eight I think, four unmezzable,
>
>Sounds like 1-2 enchanters and 4 offtanks then?
If they know their stuff it can be done with 2 offtanks, but I
wouldn't do that unless I was confident to begin with. And two
enchanters to be safe.
Also the offtanks (and probably the enchanters) will need healing. Not
much, but an actual healer there.
> Can you tell the mezzable
>from the un?
I don't remember anything obvious; people just know by their names
now.
>
>I don't suppose any of those guys are charmable...
No.
>>and you can't kill them.
>
>Is that as in, you need shissarbane to kill them, or they're totally
>immune to bloody everything and depop when emp dies? It sounds like, if
>theyconveniently depop when emp dies, it's probably not -worth- trying to
>kill them.
They are easy to kill, the offtanks can even kill them without meaning
to if they get bored (emp is a long fight), but they respawn seconds
later full health and with no aggro built up, just ready and rearin to
jump into the clerics. So you have to keep them alive.
>
>>While a high
>>end GoD guild would probably be able to do with two groups (slowly), a
>>guild who would still be getting upgrades from VT would be foolish to
>>go with less than twice that and probably should have rather more.
>
>Well, how about a middling-end elemental guild?
Take four groups, more if you can. And remember Emp is immune to
regular weapons, he requires shissar bane weapons to hurt through
melee (other than procs).
Remington Stone
>name ez06...@veni.ucdavis.edu (Remington Stone):
>>Ben Sisson said:
>>>name ez06...@veni.ucdavis.edu (Remington Stone):
>>>>hughes said:
>>>>>> Hmm. Is Emperor 1-2 groupable yet? I've had no luck convincing my guild
>>>>>> going to VT is a worthwhile idea at all, but I've got two of the pieces
>>>>>> for emp key... If I only had to convince 1-2 groups to get keyed, maybe I
>>>>>> could get there.
>>>>>Probably. The last time we did him was with 21 people on an off raid night
>>>>>and that was over a year ago. Groups are going to look a bit weird though.
>>>>>You need good numbers of shamans and enchanters to slow/ mezz the adds for
>>>>>the 30 minutes the fight will take.
>>>>Hmm. How many adds we talkin' here?
>>>Eight I think, four unmezzable,
>>Sounds like 1-2 enchanters and 4 offtanks then?
>If they know their stuff it can be done with 2 offtanks, but I
>wouldn't do that unless I was confident to begin with. And two
>enchanters to be safe.
Bah, I'm good! I can hack it! :) Confidence I've got. Knowledge of the
event may be lacking, however. :)
>Also the offtanks (and probably the enchanters) will need healing. Not
>much, but an actual healer there.
So we're up to 2 encs, 3 offtanks and a druid/shaman for the CC group.
>> Can you tell the mezzable from the un?
>I don't remember anything obvious; people just know by their names
>now.
Well, if they have different names, that'd be a bloody good way to tell.
:)
>>>and you can't kill them.
>>Is that as in, you need shissarbane to kill them, or they're totally
>>immune to bloody everything and depop when emp dies? It sounds like, if
>>theyconveniently depop when emp dies, it's probably not -worth- trying to
>>kill them.
>They are easy to kill, the offtanks can even kill them without meaning
>to if they get bored (emp is a long fight), but they respawn seconds
>later full health and with no aggro built up, just ready and rearin to
>jump into the clerics. So you have to keep them alive.
Right. Offtanks with their weapons bagged. Got it. :)
>>>While a high
>>>end GoD guild would probably be able to do with two groups (slowly), a
>>>guild who would still be getting upgrades from VT would be foolish to
>>>go with less than twice that and probably should have rather more.
>>Well, how about a middling-end elemental guild?
>Take four groups, more if you can. And remember Emp is immune to
>regular weapons, he requires shissar bane weapons to hurt through
>melee (other than procs).
The question is more, given our low numbers lately and the large
contingent of the guild that refuses to set foot in Ssra for any reason,
is it even worth trying if we can only get 2-2.5 groups? Even if we have
a tank with umptyjillion hitpoints?
Ben Sisson
>Ben Sisson said:
*I* wouldn't... but YMMV. :-p
Jennaii
>some doing for a guy with no raid gear, but no I wouldn't line it up next to
>a multi-raided VT key.
>
>James
That's what I am working towards myself.
FWIW, my 65 uber paladin raids 4 nights a week friend wears that breastplate
too.
Healea Sternstar - 64 cleric
Skila Windrunner - 58 ranger
Jennaii - 46 druid
Tholuxe Paells
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=875403
-martin
> Sounds like 1-2 enchanters and 4 offtanks then? Can you tell the mezzable
> from the un?
Yes. There are 4 names of mobs, and the pattern is the same:-
Unmezzable = Slowable
Mezzable = Immune to slow
> I don't suppose any of those guys are charmable... :) Our enchanters are
> bored lately, and wondering what a six-enc group could accomplish. :)
Nope
> >and you can't kill them.
>
> Is that as in, you need shissarbane to kill them, or they're totally
> immune to bloody everything and depop when emp dies? It sounds like, if
> theyconveniently depop when emp dies, it's probably not -worth- trying to
> kill them.
30 second respawn, and emp fight is a good 10+ mins. No they dont die when
emp does.
> >end GoD guild would probably be able to do with two groups (slowly), a
> >guild who would still be getting upgrades from VT would be foolish to
> >go with less than twice that and probably should have rather more.
>
> Well, how about a middling-end elemental guild?
3 groups. Class would make little difference really... 2 clerics, 1
warrior, some melee with bane weapons, few caster dps, 2 chanters, 2
offtankers (like i said, we used 1 shaman per 2 mobs when knights were
lacking)
-m
James Hicks
several
> > > quality droppables being farmed 24/7. It would be better if solo/duo
> > > LDoN-style adventures were made, so Mr. Uberfarmer couldn't bottom
feed
> > his
> > > way to glory.
> >
> > That is a problem with the necro and enchanter classes, and it
should
> > not be worked around by denying content and drops to single and small
> groups
> > of other classes.
>
> A SHM, DRU, MAG, BST could also all solo camps in there, just not as
> many at once. We used to have a druid in guild that would go to Droga on
> server-up, hit tracking, and kill any named in the place that was up. It's
> tough to design content that level-appropriate people can duo but which
> cannot be soloed by someone of higher level. Far better to keep the higher
> levels out, and the best system for that is LDoN.
Hmm as a general rule, if it can be grouped by any group I'd see, (up to
the parts of PoP I've seen but probably not GoD) we could duo it - just
takes a little longer.
Same probably holds true for soloers, but I don't see why the non-soloer
classes should be punished for that as well.
> James
>
>
-martin
> There's a bigass difference between a plate tank with 10k+hp unbuffed and
> buttloads of +shielding and a 9.6k buffed no +shielding plate tank. :)
Well our paladin wasn't 10k+ unbuffed. This was very early GoD, and despite
being in full time armour (he was the most active pali on the server) he was
still "only" 9k unbuffed (11 buffed). There was very limited shielding
available in time too, maybe 4% or so on typical gear choices
Of course this was in the days of /disc defensive.. which meant he mitigated
damage I guess on a par with a 9k buffed warrior with no shielding..
> Our lead GoD exploration team is War, Pal, Shm, Dru, Enc, Rog (Notice all
> the healing redundancy) any they don't try to actually tank stuff but
> use Mr. Pooka to do the work.
Thats sad. I mean more fool Sony if thats the ONLY way to beat it.. but I
don't think it is, and it really is gimping the encounter (as charm does
everywhere /sigh). I know my perspective of the trials isnt the same as how
many face them (11khp monk =p) but as an example, a (now) guildie of mine
finished his tipt trial on our last server (we both came from Prexus) as a
guild group of elemental flagged/zero EP armour people. They hadn't done
the Luclin thing, so there was no vexthal armour, just what had been gained
in PoP flaggings and their 1 or 2 earth ring runs (the SK was 8.x bufffed,
warrior about 9k). The monk used his riposte disc for some early damage,
then the warrior did the same, and then finally /defensive. Thats where you
are coming from it sounds, and whilst some aspects of that strat wouldn't
work now (namely the disc shit they implemented), this was also pre-revamp,
when his dps was NOTICABLY higher. Yes they used 2 clerics, yes they had 8k
harmtouch or whatever, but they still tanked it and won with some "merit"
> I'm in team 2 and when we dropped a DPS class
> for a Dru things got way way easier. Team 2 is War, Clr, Dru, Nec, Enc,
Rng
> just for information purposes. Our first trip to the mountains was kinda
> ugly but that's mostly a matter of getting a feel for the mobs and
reacting
Well 2 healers is necessary, its easy to understand adding a second healer
made all the difference if you are aware of what rampage is.
I did tipt a few weeks ago (after a break of a few months), and noticed the
first named didn't even rampage anymore though -- wtf?
First time we passed it, we had a shaman as secondary healer/slower, and he
healed me for rampage on both mobs. We also did it with 2 clerics (main and
twink) and beast slower (well he didnt slow the final named, but thats what
he was there for..) and once with a druid. Each has its merits, but any of
them works fine really. I found monk as rampage tank worked better than a
knight too, especially when the only other healer was a shaman, for 2 simple
reasons: /disc stonestance (12 seconds of massively reduced incoming damage)
allowing the shaman to get it slowed before needing to heal.. and of course
mend, for the same reasons. A warrior could do the mob better, but knights
are kindof lacking in the damage reducing disc department. Did it once, the
SK ramp tank got 1 rounded at 100% heh.. that was fun.
> I'm mostly pissed off at the existance of GoD so take my comments on the
> content there with a cow-lick of salt. :) That said, there is some fun
stuff
> there. CoW event in Barindu is kinda fun, especially the mayhem on pulling
Man the shitness that is GoD doesn't truly begin to show itself until AFTER
tipt/ved!
-m
Melduhr
<jamesg...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Before I comment, awesome post. =)
>
>"James Hicks" <nos...@forme.plz> wrote in message
>news:WlkMc.13474$K53....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> The reason why I'm posting this is that it is apparent to me that most
>> people who are in uberguilds are completely ignorant of what is neccessary
>> to keep up without an uberguild, and completely *disdainful* of the
>repeated
>> requests by the masses to make it more possible to do so. (note:
>possible -
>> not easier, not easy, just possible)
>
> I'll point out places where I think you got it right, and where you got
>it wrong.
>
>> At the beginning of the scale, Kuloth is level 52 and has just solo fear
>> kited his last 6 levels in the dreadlands, because he was sick of grouping
>> with idiots and assholes
>
> Unless you're in a guild with people your level, you're stuck with what
>you get when doing pick-up.
If you are in a guild you are stuck with the same assholes
and idiots every day.
Now what is better?
Seeing the same idiots every day or seeing different idiots
every day? :)
Really,as sad as it is,my opinion of my fellow players
gets worse every day.Gave up on putting all the melees
who attack mob from the front on ignore list,I wouldnt find
a pickup group anymore.
Glad I found a group of unguilded,competente players some
weeks ago,its fun doing places like Nadox or Torgiran,where
all the sheeps never go,despite the ingame hint when reaching
certain levels.
Mheldur 51 Cleric (guildless)
Uland 65 Hunter (guildless)
nib
>
>
> If you are in a guild you are stuck with the same assholes
> and idiots every day.
> Now what is better?
Hopefully you choose a guild that isn't full of assholes and idiots.
> Seeing the same idiots every day or seeing different idiots
> every day? :)
> Really,as sad as it is,my opinion of my fellow players
> gets worse every day.Gave up on putting all the melees
> who attack mob from the front on ignore list,I wouldnt find
> a pickup group anymore.
I'm probably showing my ignorance here considering I'm new to the game
but I don't follow you. As a melee, which implies you're a tank, how can
you really fight any creature in any position except the front? Even if
you get behind the mob, since it is your job to get aggro, won't he just
turn around and face you, meaning you're now attacking from the front?
Or is your point that the melee should initially get behind the mob
specifically so he can turn it around so its back is to the casters?
Just curious.
--
nib
Ranolin on Morden Rasp
My not very impressive profile:
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1068593
Graeme Faelban
berlin.de:
> Melduhr wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you are in a guild you are stuck with the same assholes
>> and idiots every day.
>> Now what is better?
>
> Hopefully you choose a guild that isn't full of assholes and idiots.
>
>> Seeing the same idiots every day or seeing different idiots
>> every day? :)
>> Really,as sad as it is,my opinion of my fellow players
>> gets worse every day.Gave up on putting all the melees
>> who attack mob from the front on ignore list,I wouldnt find a pickup
>> group anymore.
>
> I'm probably showing my ignorance here considering I'm new to the game
> but I don't follow you. As a melee, which implies you're a tank, how
can
> you really fight any creature in any position except the front? Even if
> you get behind the mob, since it is your job to get aggro, won't he
just
> turn around and face you, meaning you're now attacking from the front?
> Or is your point that the melee should initially get behind the mob
> specifically so he can turn it around so its back is to the casters?
>
Not all melee are tanks (rogues, rangers, monks). Even when they are all
tanks, only one of them should be actively tanking the mob, the others
should be concentrating on doing damage, which means not attacking from
the front arc. By attacking from the sides and rear, any melee class
will see about a 15% increase in DPS due to the lack of ripostes and
blocks and such.
Lance Berg
nib wrote:
> Melduhr wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> If you are in a guild you are stuck with the same assholes
>> and idiots every day.
>> Now what is better?
>
>
> Hopefully you choose a guild that isn't full of assholes and idiots.
>
>> Seeing the same idiots every day or seeing different idiots
>> every day? :)
>> Really,as sad as it is,my opinion of my fellow players
>> gets worse every day.Gave up on putting all the melees
>> who attack mob from the front on ignore list,I wouldnt find
>> a pickup group anymore.
>
>
> I'm probably showing my ignorance here considering I'm new to the game
> but I don't follow you. As a melee, which implies you're a tank, how can
> you really fight any creature in any position except the front? Even if
> you get behind the mob, since it is your job to get aggro, won't he just
> turn around and face you, meaning you're now attacking from the front?
> Or is your point that the melee should initially get behind the mob
> specifically so he can turn it around so its back is to the casters?
>
You are confusing Melee with Tank.
On any given mob you should have one tank. His job is to stand in front
of the mob and take a beating. His damage output is, in many cases,
almost irrelevant; his job is to take the beating and keep the mob's
attention. Instead of Tank (which is the popular term I admit) I prefer
to refer to this as the Sponge.
Then there's other melee in the group. Their job is to avoid getting
hit (because healing several people is usually less efficient than
healing one person), and to do melee damage.
In front of the mob, you end up getting hit from ripostes.
But worse, the mob ends up avoiding some of your hits, by block, dodge,
parry, and that same riposte.
A rough estimate often bandied about is that attacking from the front of
a mob costs you about 15% of your DPS. Being Sponge costs you even more
DPS because you end up spending some of your time stunned, unless you
are an Ogre.
Thus, even if the second tank is a warrior in exactly the same
gear/level/buff status, he should still attack from the rear, the
equivalent of getting a 15% haste!
Most melee you'll play with on a casual basis fail to understand this,
and end up attacking from either any angle at random, or worse,
deliberately manuevering into the front of all mobs they fight.
There are circumstances where this is a good idea; where you have to
worry about push moving a mob into a bad position, for example, or when
you are trying to keep casters out of AE range on certain large mobs, or
when you are trying to keep rogues in the back arc: the latter two are
only really an issue if the MT keeps losing aggro to you, or if there's
a good chance he's going to die and you'll be next on the list.
I wouldn't ignore people for failing to get this idea, though, heck, I
work with people to train them on assisting so as not to break mez, a
far worse crime, convincing them there's a way to get a 15% boost to
their DPS usually isn't all that hard.
Grage, 45 Berzerk, Luclin
nib
Thanks for the clarification.
nib
Thanks for the clarification.
Foxeye Vaeltaja
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Melduhr wrote:
> If you are in a guild you are stuck with the same assholes
> and idiots every day.
> Now what is better?
> Seeing the same idiots every day or seeing different idiots
> every day? :)
Y'know, I used to lament that my husband never was willing to take pickup
groups. I *honestly* wanted the roulette of it all, because new and varied
forms of idiots can be a fun thing to deal with if you keep the right
attitude. Sort of like watching an old kung-fu movie you KNOW is going to
be bad, or of course B-grade sci-fi flicks.
And sometimes you meet pretty decent folks. It is especially fun when
you manage to make friends with the kind of person you wouldn't bother to
get to know IRL.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jerelyn Foxeye Vaeltaja 65 Forest Stalker (Xev) - retired
Character Portrait Artist http://www.the-luggage.com
http://www.foxeye-art.com 5 Kinetic/Psych Defender (Virtue)
Zarris
"nib" <individ...@nibsworld.com> wrote in message
news:2mpr6iF...@uni-berlin.de...
> I'm probably showing my ignorance here considering I'm new to the game
> but I don't follow you. As a melee, which implies you're a tank, how can
> you really fight any creature in any position except the front? Even if
> you get behind the mob, since it is your job to get aggro, won't he just
> turn around and face you, meaning you're now attacking from the front?
> Or is your point that the melee should initially get behind the mob
> specifically so he can turn it around so its back is to the casters?
>
> Just curious.
In a nutshell, Riposte Damage is the Devil. :)
What I mean by that is that all melee types ( Rangers, Monks, Rogues Warr's
etc.. ) who are NOT the Main tank should be attacking from the side / rear,
as a mob cant riposte from that attack arc. It increases your damage output
slightly, and conserves the helaers mana a bit, as your not taking damage
from any ripostes.
Z
--
Viarra Drakar <Northstar Legions> Wood Elf Storm Warden
Kyrdra Drakar <Northstar Legions> Wood Elf Overlord
Liatras Drakar <Northstar Legions> 51 1/2 Elf Ranger
Tabifa Duchat <Northstar Legions> 53 Vah Shir Beastlord
Marianyax Moulee <Northstar Legions> 53 High Elf Illusionist
Zarris <Northstar Legions> 26 DE Necromancer
All now on Torvon
Hippie Ramone
Ok, here is what the difference of "casual" vs. "raider" started from
and where it was at the time of PoP. I'm just going to compare war
BPs since I'm lazy and also look only at HP and AC on them.
Indicolite BP (Raid)
AC 35 HP 0
Crafted BP (1 Group)
AC 22 HP 25
Enameled Black BP (1 Group)
AC 25 HP 0
The % difference is raid vs. "casual" done by (raid-casual)/raid for each is
Indicolite
AC 0%
HP 0%
Crafted
AC 37%
HP well heh infintely better. :)
EBBP
AC 28%
Now for PoP stats
Kizrak's BP
AC 64
HP 115
Raex
AC 100
HP 250
And %'s
Kizrak
AC 36%
HP 54%
Heh didn't come out quite as expected but there seems to be a trend in at
least AC that's semi-consisted. That being raid vs. non-raid is about a
35% difference. The big one however is the HP delta. Pre-Kunark we see there
was really effectively 0 difference in raid BP HP vs. non-raid BP HP. Now
there is a bigass difference.
I didn't include effects or stats here but I'd imagine that the difference in
those are more in line with the HP difference than the AC one.
K
Michael Johnson
<nospam-vil...@cheerful.com> wrote:
>"Hippie Ramone" <kde...@scrye.com> wrote in message
>news:ce68ai$5ll$2...@brand.scrye.com...
>> There's a bigass difference between a plate tank with 10k+hp unbuffed and
>> buttloads of +shielding and a 9.6k buffed no +shielding plate tank. :)
>
>Well our paladin wasn't 10k+ unbuffed. This was very early GoD, and despite
>being in full time armour (he was the most active pali on the server) he was
>still "only" 9k unbuffed (11 buffed). There was very limited shielding
>available in time too, maybe 4% or so on typical gear choices
>
>Of course this was in the days of /disc defensive.. which meant he mitigated
>damage I guess on a par with a 9k buffed warrior with no shielding..
>
>> Our lead GoD exploration team is War, Pal, Shm, Dru, Enc, Rog (Notice all
>> the healing redundancy) any they don't try to actually tank stuff but
>> use Mr. Pooka to do the work.
>
>Thats sad. I mean more fool Sony if thats the ONLY way to beat it.. but I
>don't think it is, and it really is gimping the encounter (as charm does
>everywhere /sigh).
Its not the ONLY way to beat it... but pet tanking gets you killed,
and killed lots. It can work, if the stars align and all bad things
happen at the right times, but i've been in way too many groups where
the group got brutalized using this tactic. I would say that it would
take much longer without charm pet, and the guy at the end would be
much more difficult for a 9.6k to tank. Doable? Ya.
>I know my perspective of the trials isnt the same as how
>many face them (11khp monk =p) but as an example, a (now) guildie of mine
>finished his tipt trial on our last server (we both came from Prexus) as a
>guild group of elemental flagged/zero EP armour people. They hadn't done
>the Luclin thing, so there was no vexthal armour, just what had been gained
>in PoP flaggings and their 1 or 2 earth ring runs (the SK was 8.x bufffed,
>warrior about 9k). The monk used his riposte disc for some early damage,
>then the warrior did the same, and then finally /defensive.
On the boss? Its usually tanked, but Furious and Weapon Shield still
work fine and with a charmed pet either is all it needs to smoke the
boss.
>Well 2 healers is necessary, its easy to understand adding a second healer
>made all the difference if you are aware of what rampage is.
>I did tipt a few weeks ago (after a break of a few months), and noticed the
>first named didn't even rampage anymore though -- wtf?
Heh.. this they usually just send pet in on due to its low hp. It
drops like a rock
-MJ
Hippie Ramone
: Its not the ONLY way to beat it... but pet tanking gets you killed,
: and killed lots. It can work, if the stars align and all bad things
: happen at the right times, but i've been in way too many groups where
: the group got brutalized using this tactic. I would say that it would
: take much longer without charm pet, and the guy at the end would be
: much more difficult for a 9.6k to tank. Doable? Ya.
If you are in a pickup group attempting to charm kill I can see you getting
killed lots. However all of the folks in my group are used to it and know
what to do when charm drops, keep the charm pet snared always, have /shield
chanter hotkeyed, stun, chain snare on pet from ranger to get agro and move
it off someplace for recharm. It's not as difficult as you make it seem.
K
hughes
getting
> killed lots. However all of the folks in my group are used to it and know
> what to do when charm drops, keep the charm pet snared always, have
/shield
> chanter hotkeyed, stun, chain snare on pet from ranger to get agro and
move
> it off someplace for recharm. It's not as difficult as you make it seem.
>
> K
Also if you use a pooka the mr is low enough that it will not break charm
early. Dogs would just be an awfull pet choice since they are high mr.
Since invisibility breaks charm and charm has an 8 minute duration just
break it when you are ready not when it just happens to break. Rangers
really shine here since they can snare the pet, bow dammage does not draw
aggro off a pet, they can weaponshield to tank for as long as a named takes
to kill, and they can single pull with harmony.
ranger
cleric
mage
chanter
chanter
Is the group we used to farm jirrahl. Was very worthwhile till all the
chanters got bored :) It is now hard as hell to find 2 blue pookas but shrug
is still doable. I actually have to work in kt but all my twinks full up on
tipt/vxed stuff 8/
If you dont have a cleric and a rogue to camp this would probably be much
harder. The run to tipt could get old fast.
Michael Johnson
Normal charm dropping is not a problem. My usual setup is to have
wizard stun on break, chanter tash, resnare from druid, chanter
recharm, rewash. Furthermore, you can't resnare a charmed pet.. have
to refresh it on every break. Where good pet tanking goes bad is when
the pet tank breaks while it is tanking a mob. Now you have to pick up
the primary mob with a tank who has been sitting around doing
nothing(because you can only have 3 people on the primary mob's agro
list in order for it to hold agro.. usually chanter, one healer,
snarer) and if its a summoning mob your chanter is instadead.
As per the /shield on hotkey... if your tank is picking up the primary
mob its useless. /shield has an extremely small range without Gates AA
to extend it, for which the chanter has to stay in that range the
entire time it is up or it drops as soon as they leave. Trust me on
that if given a choice between backing away from a charm pet coming at
it or standing still and praying /shield saves them, the chanter runs
out of its range. Furthermore, a tank lasts about as long on a /shield
of a chanter with an amped charm pet as the chanter does. And
defensive and /shield do not mix. You can't /shield while defensive
and it drops as soon as you defensive. Unless of course you've gimped
the charm and not given it mage items, haste, ndt, etc.
Pet tanking.. when it worked decent enough and had skilled chanter it
was fine up to just past the Riddler. I certainly have heard of people
taking it all the way and WS'ing or furiousing the boss, but those
were far outnumbered by the horror stories i've seen and heard of. I
far prefer pet dps. As long as your recharm crew is on the ball you
just walk over mobs with a lot more control of the situation. You'll
need to med in each safe section that doesn't respawn a few minutes...
but that's no biggie.
-MJ
Michael Johnson
wrote:
>> If you are in a pickup group attempting to charm kill I can see you
>getting
>> killed lots. However all of the folks in my group are used to it and know
>> what to do when charm drops, keep the charm pet snared always, have
>/shield
>> chanter hotkeyed, stun, chain snare on pet from ranger to get agro and
>move
>> it off someplace for recharm. It's not as difficult as you make it seem.
>>
>> K
>
>Also if you use a pooka the mr is low enough that it will not break charm
>early. Dogs would just be an awfull pet choice since they are high mr.
>
>Since invisibility breaks charm and charm has an 8 minute duration just
>break it when you are ready not when it just happens to break.
Charm is not a fixed duration. It CAN last 8 minutes.. or break after
1. it just depends on your luck. And it always likes breaking at the
most annoying of times :>. Plus.. pooka's don't usually show up in
zone until after the golems.
>Rangers really shine here since they can snare the pet, bow dammage does not draw
>aggro off a pet
It should still mess up the agro for the pet if you have 3 other
people on its list. As long as he's one of the 3.. yeah.. nice extra
damage.
>, they can weaponshield to tank for as long as a named takes
>to kill, and they can single pull with harmony.
>
>ranger
>cleric
>mage
>chanter
>chanter
Nice to have the two chanters, i've never had that luxury. On a break
of the pet the other can keep the primary at bay during recharm. The
odds of a double break are extremely low.
-MJ
James Hicks
> >early. Dogs would just be an awfull pet choice since they are high mr.
> >
> >Since invisibility breaks charm and charm has an 8 minute duration just
> >break it when you are ready not when it just happens to break.
>
> Charm is not a fixed duration. It CAN last 8 minutes.. or break after
> 1. it just depends on your luck. And it always likes breaking at the
> most annoying of times :>. Plus.. pooka's don't usually show up in
> zone until after the golems.
Charm IS fixed duration, however there is a resist check every so often
that can result in a break.
Regards,
James
Lance Berg
Michael Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:26:17 GMT, "hughes" <hugh...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>Also if you use a pooka the mr is low enough that it will not break charm
>>early. Dogs would just be an awfull pet choice since they are high mr.
>>
>>Since invisibility breaks charm and charm has an 8 minute duration just
>>break it when you are ready not when it just happens to break.
>
>
> Charm is not a fixed duration. It CAN last 8 minutes.. or break after
> 1. it just depends on your luck. And it always likes breaking at the
> most annoying of times :>. Plus.. pooka's don't usually show up in
> zone until after the golems.
>
Hughes is saying that since the pookas have a very low MR, they tend to
stay charmed close to the full duration.
I don't know whether thats true or not, but I don't think he was saying
it can't break early on them, just that its less likely.
Mentioning the max duration seemed to be merely in service of the point
that by using invis to break the charm you can reapply debuffs/snare
more easily, with a fully ready crew, instead of relying on reaction
time each time it breaks.
Grage
Annie Benson-Lennaman
> You want all the good stuff, without doing any of the work. Have you ever
> actually worked on stuff like the VT key?
I will never understand why a game is supposed to be "work". I do
work. It's hard, but at least I get paid money to do so, rather than
having to pay for the privilege. Yes, I know that I just don't have the
powergamer mentality.
--
Annie
AGE FAQ:
http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.faq.htm
http://tinyurl.com/yvud6
Mirrored at:
http://www.derfy.net/agefaq.html
_______
If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me.
FredFlinstone
moronic drone in the hive of some uber asshats.
"Annie Benson-Lennaman" <tea...@realpeopleonly.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:410BCE51...@realpeopleonly.yahoo.com...
Annie Benson-Lennaman
>
> No what you are proving Annie is you have some mentality and are not a
> moronic drone in the hive of some uber asshats.
Well, no. I'm proving that I have different priorities when I play.
Just because I am not a power gamer and got tired of the grind in no way
means that I have more "mentality" than anyone else. However, I did play
for four years, and had a lot of fun doing so. I still think that EQ is a
great game. It's just one that I got tired of.
nos...@nowhere.com
> I will never understand why a game is supposed to be "work". I do
> work. It's hard, but at least I get paid money to do so, rather than
> having to pay for the privilege. Yes, I know that I just don't have the
> powergamer mentality.
Because, often, the reward at the end of that work produces more
enjoyment than if you hadn't done that work.
This in no way is meant to excuse EverQuest for it's ridiculously
camp-heavy nature, however.
Michael Cooper
> Probably the most unrewarding asshole quest I ever did was soloing
> darkforge in my early 30's, after that I pretty much gave questing a big
> miss. My best current item is the 1492 Tak breastplate with FT2 - that took
> some doing for a guy with no raid gear, but no I wouldn't line it up next to
> a multi-raided VT key.
>
My paladin is using that BP, and I'm in the top 5 paladins on my server
in terms of tanking power.
-martin
news:410f0942$0$16317$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
i doubt your other armour slots are LDON though...
-m
Graeme Faelban
news:2nepdu...@uni-berlin.de:
That, or he's looking at EQRankings, and his server got wiped out on
there. :b
Faned
I saw one of the LDoN BPs tricked out with GoD augments...
Jekke, Just Jekke
wrote:
> The requirements have dropped, but so have the relative rewards - to the
>point where (for example) almost no guild is making a serious attempt to key
>up for VT - there are simply better ways to get that level of gear now, even
>though the barriers are lower due to everyone being higher level and already
>having crap they stumbled on in Veksar, or bought from a McLDoN McMerchant.
We're still gearing up newbies for VT even though, before we lost
numbers to LDoN, WoW, and ennui, we were nearly in Time and I think I
understand why.
Yes. There is better gear to be had. But, with VT, we can pick up
30-40 upgrades in a day. Nowhere else are we going to get that kind of
bang for the buck.
--
--Jekke
=====================
Playing on Torvonilous
Baron Mipmip Bromeliad (Froglok Cleric, 65)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=850034
Venerable Sheava Ebonrezzor (Dark Elf Cleric, 65) *STOLEN*
Veteran Moulin Khmer (Dark Elf Rogue, 65)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=87681
Qiin Dred (Iksar Necromancer, 55)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=717977
Brikk Hauss (Ogre Warrior, 51)
Jekke, Just Jekke
I've got that BP on my cleric and will probably never upgrade it for
anything that's in the game today. It's an acheivement.