Best class - solo and group
White Rider
thoughts were:
solo: druid. SoW and DoT. nuff said.
group: cleric. super heal, buffs, and decent melee.
--
One ring to rule them all
One ring to find them
One ring to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them
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Before you buy.
Paul Phillips
mana regen early, Powerful for 60 levels.
Best Class in a Group: Shaman: Pet, DoTs, Utility spells,
Healing, powerful for 60 levels.
Paul
In article <8fca3g$krv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, White Rider
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NBarnes
> What do you think is the best class for soloing and grouping? My
> thoughts were:
> solo: druid. SoW and DoT. nuff said.
> group: cleric. super heal, buffs, and decent melee.
So, um... you've never played a class past 20th, right? If the
druid is 'SoW and DoT. nuff said', what about shamans? They get
DoTs, too, and ones that are between 35% and 50% better than druids',
depending on level, and SoW, and pets, and slows. The fact is that
past 34th level, shamans are just plain better soloers than druids.
And necromancers are _much_ better soloers than druids or shamans
at _any_ level.
As for groups, again, you've been listening to other people too
much instead of watching. Clerics aren't _nearly_ as good in
groups as enchanters, shamans, or debatably bards.
NBarnes - Dina Demeteran, 51st circle wanderer, Sol Ro
David
Their post 50 lineup really doesn't add that much compared to
some other classes. In fact, several other classes get some
of the shaman's 'hole card' spells for the expansion.
(ie. Magicians get the high level malaise line, necromancers
get better DoTs,etc)
I would say they're a fairly powerful class from 34-50, but
I would say they peak somewhat at that point since their spells
don't really increase in damage output much relative to mob
damage increases.
That's not to say they become worthless, just much less of a
'power class'. If you're looking long term, Mages/Necromancers
and possibly ShadowKnights could arguably be way ahead at least
in terms of soloability/raw power.
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Fasolatedo
The other night I was in a group with 4 druids and a mage.. I was the only
Tank. Please play a Monk/warrior/ranger/paladin/shadowknight.
No they aren't great at solo, but in a group you are the hero.
White Rider <whiteri...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8fca3g$krv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> What do you think is the best class for soloing and grouping? My
> thoughts were:
> solo: druid. SoW and DoT. nuff said.
> group: cleric. super heal, buffs, and decent melee.
>
Kevlar
>2 levels and I'll be able to solo them effectively sans pet. Hell if I
>had the missing piece of Rune Etched (the BP) I would killed it instead of
>gating when it ran!
That is one thing I have wondered about shamen, how do you stop runners?
I know eventually the DOT will get it *maybe* but is your only option root?
Root doesn't seem to work well for me at all on ~35th level mobs. I can't
imagine how it would work at 50. Do shaman ever get something better
than root?
-K
Alasdair Allan
>[...]
>That's not to say they become worthless, just much less of a
>'power class'. If you're looking long term, Mages/Necromancers
>and possibly ShadowKnights could arguably be way ahead at least
>in terms of soloability/raw power.
To an extent what you say is true.
But tonight, while soloing in karnor's castle (actually soloing, not
hanging at the entrance) and pulling stuff into the alcove off the first
courtyard *sans* pet, I got thinking, hell, sure Necro is now so far ahead
we can't touch em, and to be honest we have been nerfed.
But hell, there isn't *any* class that can or will be able to do what I
was doing (with the possible exception of the Iksar Necro - we shall see).
I had a Drol Guardian (level 47 mob and therefore will be blue at 60)
within 250 hps of dead while solo (ran out of mana and *fortunately* it
had turned to run when the last tick of the last Ebolt [the 4th] ran out).
2 levels and I'll be able to solo them effectively sans pet. Hell if I
had the missing piece of Rune Etched (the BP) I would killed it instead of
gating when it ran!
So while we have had our relative power reduced greatly, the class can
still be played well. And damnit, I know just how to do that.
--
Regards,
Eduin
Coconut Monkey
>how do you stop runners?
one of the best spells in the game.
NBarnes
> >how do you stop runners?
> That's why we druids have snare. it's a quick and cheap spell, easily
> one of the best spells in the game.
Snare is wonderful. But I don't think that snare/ensnare alone
are quite as good as the cumulative effect of slowdowns, 40%
better DoTs, pets, and better AC. Certainly snare would have been
totally irrelevant if I had been in Alasdair's position, because
I, in a million years, could _never_ solo a 47th level drolvarg
at close quarters. I wouldn't even be able to come close.
Billy Shields
: Coconut Monkey wrote:
(waits for 'guess away' to come in and tell you how much you're
wrong and how much druids rock).
guess away
Hmm. Is this person asking for druids to be buffed? Doesn't look that
way. But yes, in general, druids do rock. Fun class to play. Fun class
to have in group.
Alasdair Allan
> >2 levels and I'll be able to solo them effectively sans pet. Hell if I
> >had the missing piece of Rune Etched (the BP) I would killed it instead
of
> >gating when it ran!
>
>
Root, of course.
Rock solid method.
> I know eventually the DOT will get it *maybe* but is your only option
root?
Yes. What more do you want?
> Root doesn't seem to work well for me at all on ~35th level mobs. I can't
> imagine how it would work at 50. Do shaman ever get something better
> than root?
Root is fine.
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
Sam Schlansky
<01bfbb39$ba1c2580$240201c0@dell40>:
>Kevlar <ksu...@mindspring.com> wrote
>> >2 levels and I'll be able to solo them effectively sans pet.
>> >Hell if I had the missing piece of Rune Etched (the BP) I would
>> >killed it instead of gating when it ran!
>>
>> That is one thing I have wondered about shamen, how do you stop
>> runners?
>
>Root, of course.
>
>Rock solid method.
Hardly. Root is total shit compared to snare.
Sure, it WORKS, but it's inferior in every, EVERY, way. I'd take a weapon that
proc'd snare over one that proc'd venom of snake.
Well, maybe not... but it'd be close.
>> I know eventually the DOT will get it *maybe* but is your only
>> option root?
>
>Yes. What more do you want?
Snare. :)
>> Root doesn't seem to work well for me at all on ~35th level
>> mobs. I can't imagine how it would work at 50. Do shaman ever
>> get something better than root?
>
>Root is fine.
It works, yeah. But it isn't great.
Sam
--
/| Sam Schlansky <sam[at]operation3d[dot]com>
/| I speak for myself only unless noted otherwise.
/| PGP Key ID: 0x63A9D707
/| 3DNews.net: News With Perspective!
/| 3DHardware.net: Taking Your Machine To The Third Dimension!
/| Remove "deletethis" to email.
Ping
Schlansky) wrote:
>
>Hardly. Root is total shit compared to snare.
>
>Sure, it WORKS, but it's inferior in every, EVERY, way. I'd take a weapon that
>proc'd snare over one that proc'd venom of snake.
>
>Well, maybe not... but it'd be close.
>
You're wrong. Root is phenominal. Level 49 root that (at times)
lasts for 2 minutes and 30 seconds? Jesus, if you're not using this
you're a retard.
And what the hell is wrong with using root in conjunction with snare?
OK, so you root a mob and root breaks. You stand up, snare it, run
about 15 feet, turn around and cast root again. Ever since they fixed
it, druid root will hold itself for AT LEAST (at lvl 49) a minute
every other time.
Then, you sit on your ass and get the mana back you lost from the
broken root while the MoB is DoTted.
>
>It works, yeah. But it isn't great.
>
>Sam
>
You're wrong. Root fucking rules, especially when you use it in
cojunction with snare.
>--
>
>/| Sam Schlansky <sam[at]operation3d[dot]com>
>/| I speak for myself only unless noted otherwise.
>/| PGP Key ID: 0x63A9D707
>/| 3DNews.net: News With Perspective!
>/| 3DHardware.net: Taking Your Machine To The Third Dimension!
>/| Remove "deletethis" to email.
"We have enough YOUTH, how about a fountain of SMART?!"
Olaf
it last over a minute. Is the druid root spell that much better?
Interestingly enough, Necros got Enstill in the expansion. Anyone know why?
olaf
Ping <Pi...@iluv.yourmom.com> wrote in message
news:391b2ada....@client.ne.news.psi.net...
Alasdair Allan
Sam Schlansky wrote in message <8F31B1B42vi...@207.126.101.100>...
>postm...@x-static.demon.co.uk (Alasdair Allan) wrote >>Root, of course.
>>
>>Rock solid method.
>
>Hardly. Root is total shit compared to snare.
>
>Sure, it WORKS, but it's inferior in every, EVERY, way. I'd take a weapon
that
>proc'd snare over one that proc'd venom of snake.
>
>Well, maybe not... but it'd be close.
Ha! Got you.
You're in a group. You have an Enchanter covering SLTW, you have a Cleric
covering heals under clarity (nearly as good as Regrowth).
This is a pretty common scenario for a Shaman if you pick your group. Now
if you want to ease the battle with a DoT without it interrupting your
Wince/Sit cycle, what do you want? I want root because with the mob
rooted it will normally hold past the initial taunt of the cast and mean
no mob coming over and bashing you.
You did say *every*.
--
Regards,
Alasdair
Matthew Mc Clement
You may want to try again. Snare is a movement debuff and if you keep your
distance you can cast a DoT without it leaving the main tank. Distance plays a
big part in taunt and Snare helps make the difference even larger.
Matt
Kevlar
to stop runners. As everyone well knows a runner in a dungeon means intant
death, or at least a gate out and no xp.
He say he sticks with root, but between its long casting time, unreliable
duration and fairly high resist rate I just dont like it. In a dungeon a fleeing
mob can turn a corner long before you get that root off and his friends are
on you quick.
Using root myself, only because thats all you can do solo indoors as a
caster, I found that I lose a mob frequently enough to cause problems.
Now I root till the monster is about to hit the danger zone of running,
about 1/4 health I will just blast to break root and snare it before it runs.
Taking a little damage and incurring the down time more than makes up
for a lost kill.
-K
NBarnes
I don't find it fun to be in a group and look around and see
_exactly_ how little I'm actually doing to earn my XP (and the XP
was amazing) compared to the enchanter, shaman, or rogue.
Druids to be buffed? Er... druids don't _suck_, quite. Wizards,
now wizards just plain need to be better. Druids? Druids, in
certain limited, inefficient ways, are fairly powerful. I'd like
to druids refocused into more efficient, group-friendly channels,
but that ain't gonna happen.
Sergey Dashevskiy
different spells, with completely different purposes. What's better --
water breathing or levitation?
Snare is used for controlling runners and nuke kiting, as well as
reverse kiting
Root is used for crowd control (when enchanter is not there), and for
DoT kiting. DoT kiting, when available, is and extremely mana efficient
way to kill things. Me and a wizard were doing it yesterday -- I pull,
he roots, I sing my DoTs and mana, bring it to 2 bubbles, he kills it. I
pull again. By the time he needs to blast again, he's at full mana
again. My DoTs are comparable to EBolt (a bit lower damage, no mana
cost), so it was going pretty quickly
In article <8F31B1B42vi...@207.126.101.100>,
s...@deletethis.operation3d.com says...
> postm...@x-static.demon.co.uk (Alasdair Allan) wrote in
> <01bfbb39$ba1c2580$240201c0@dell40>:
>
> >Kevlar <ksu...@mindspring.com> wrote
> >> >2 levels and I'll be able to solo them effectively sans pet.
> >> >Hell if I had the missing piece of Rune Etched (the BP) I would
> >> >killed it instead of gating when it ran!
> >>
> >> That is one thing I have wondered about shamen, how do you stop
> >> runners?
> >
> >Root, of course.
> >
> >Rock solid method.
>
> Hardly. Root is total shit compared to snare.
>
> Sure, it WORKS, but it's inferior in every, EVERY, way. I'd take a weapon that
> proc'd snare over one that proc'd venom of snake.
>
> Well, maybe not... but it'd be close.
>
> >> I know eventually the DOT will get it *maybe* but is your only
> >> option root?
> >
> >Yes. What more do you want?
>
> Snare. :)
>
> >> Root doesn't seem to work well for me at all on ~35th level
> >> mobs. I can't imagine how it would work at 50. Do shaman ever
> >> get something better than root?
> >
> >Root is fine.
>
> It works, yeah. But it isn't great.
>
> Sam
>
>
--
Vedun, 30th tank mage
Xirin, 31st retired druid
Xirinia Gusl'ar, 42nd tanking bard of Povar, guildless
Run fast, die often, leave a well dressed corpse.
Sergey Dashevskiy
ksu...@mindspring.com says...
> You misunderstood the original question. I asked A what was his method
> to stop runners. As everyone well knows a runner in a dungeon means intant
> death, or at least a gate out and no xp.
>
> He say he sticks with root, but between its long casting time, unreliable
> duration and fairly high resist rate I just dont like it. In a dungeon a fleeing
> mob can turn a corner long before you get that root off and his friends are
> on you quick.
He chooses root because he has no snare. Once you practice rooting
things before they start to run, you can get it to a point when a runner
that actually made it is a once per day thing. Snare is better for
runners, but if you are root-kiting in a dungeon, it's not an option.
Actually for a shaman it's not an option in any setup
>
> Using root myself, only because thats all you can do solo indoors as a
> caster, I found that I lose a mob frequently enough to cause problems.
>
> Now I root till the monster is about to hit the danger zone of running,
> about 1/4 health I will just blast to break root and snare it before it runs.
> Taking a little damage and incurring the down time more than makes up
> for a lost kill.
>
>
> -K
>
> >You may want to try again. Snare is a movement debuff and if you keep your
> >distance you can cast a DoT without it leaving the main tank. Distance plays a
> >big part in taunt and Snare helps make the difference even larger.
> >
> >Matt
>
>
>
--
abatt...@netscape.net
> Jesus Christ, people, would you stop comparing snare and root? They are
> different spells, with completely different purposes. What's better --
> water breathing or levitation?
apples.
oranges.
but they're both round(ish)!
> DoT kiting. DoT kiting, when available, is and extremely mana efficient
> way to kill things. Me and a wizard were doing it yesterday -- I pull,
definately.
i can rot a dorf in BB in 2 minutes:
enstill (works better than root in *MY* experience)
scourge
venom of snake
venom of snake
winter's roar (didn't need blizzard blast)
the winter's roar is usually cast right before or right after the second venom
is done. almost always before the scourge.
mana cost: 700
my total mana @ 139 wis, level 44: 1311
amount of time spent medding: 2 minutes (just shorter than the scourge
duration anyway).
amount of mana left at the end of dorf: about three and a half bubbles, maybe
four.
i don't know the numbers or anything, but i know a 44th level druid who used
snare nuke kiting on these dorfs and would be less than 2 bubbles mana after
he was done with one.
--
josh
Dark Jedi of the Sysadmin Sith Darth ddifdevrandomofslash
guess away
>> way. But yes, in general, druids do rock. Fun class to play. Fun class
>> to have in group.
>
> I don't find it fun to be in a group and look around and see
>_exactly_ how little I'm actually doing to earn my XP (and the XP
>was amazing) compared to the enchanter, shaman, or rogue.
> Druids to be buffed? Er... druids don't _suck_, quite. Wizards,
>now wizards just plain need to be better. Druids? Druids, in
>certain limited, inefficient ways, are fairly powerful. I'd like
>to druids refocused into more efficient, group-friendly channels,
>but that ain't gonna happen.
Sounds like my monk. All I do is pull things and hit them while the
clerics, druids, and shamans keep me healed. It feels kinda cheap, but
then in a good group all things burn by so fast its hard to think
otherwise. Druids provide a lot for their groups already. Aside from
speed buffs (which aren't happening, obviously) what more can there
reasonably be? We have great group buffs, and evacs. We heal, we help
kill when needed. I'm not asking Billy anymore, since he wants us to
get all the toys of enchanters and shamans, but how about you?
Ping
>
>definately.
>
>i can rot a dorf in BB in 2 minutes:
A good, efficient Druid who knows what the hell they're doing of
decent level (44+) can hold the 4 spawn of citizens at the BB docks
all day and never have any down time, with the use of only 2 spells.
>
>enstill (works better than root in *MY* experience)
>scourge
>venom of snake
>venom of snake
>winter's roar (didn't need blizzard blast)
>
>the winter's roar is usually cast right before or right after the second venom
>is done. almost always before the scourge.
>
>mana cost: 700
>
>my total mana @ 139 wis, level 44: 1311
Im not gonna go into the numbers because it doesn't really matter.
>
>amount of time spent medding: 2 minutes (just shorter than the scourge
>duration anyway).
>
>amount of mana left at the end of dorf: about three and a half bubbles, maybe
>four.
>
>i don't know the numbers or anything, but i know a 44th level druid who used
>snare nuke kiting on these dorfs and would be less than 2 bubbles mana after
>he was done with one.
Yes. snare/nuke Kiting is totally inefficient. TOTALLY mana
inefficient and if you're doing it, and you have the level 44 DoT,
you're a moron. Before this level, eh, I can see the nuke method
being acceptable.
Mind you, Root isn't always reliable, so keep the snare handy. If
your root breaks, snare it and run away until you can try and root it
again. (whoa, 10 mana?)
Amount of mana left at the end of each dorf if everything goes
according to plans? 4 bubbles. If not? 3 bubbles. Sit down and
fill up before the next one spawns. You'll be level 48 before you can
blink.
>
>--
>josh
>Dark Jedi of the Sysadmin Sith Darth ddifdevrandomofslash
Sergey Dashevskiy
Pi...@iluv.yourmom.com says...
> Yes. snare/nuke Kiting is totally inefficient. TOTALLY mana
> inefficient and if you're doing it, and you have the level 44 DoT,
> you're a moron. Before this level, eh, I can see the nuke method
> being acceptable.
It's time inefficient after 44 too. Snared mob takes 66% of the damage
from your DoT. Rooted takes 100%
>
> Mind you, Root isn't always reliable, so keep the snare handy.
Actually root is pretty reliable, if you don't blast the mob. And when
it breaks your root, you can still tank it easily while rerooting,
barely getting hurt
> If
> your root breaks, snare it and run away until you can try and root it
> again. (whoa, 10 mana?)
Big deal, root is what, 40 mana? And you cast 2 the entire fight. And
you get to meditate during the fight, combining downtime with fight time
And there's a reason he doesn't keep snare handy too :) Shamans don't
have snare
>
> Amount of mana left at the end of each dorf if everything goes
> according to plans? 4 bubbles. If not? 3 bubbles. Sit down and
> fill up before the next one spawns. You'll be level 48 before you can
> blink.
>
--
Kevlar
into a way to powerlevel up to level 48. Impressive.
I think everyone knows root is better for dealing damage to monsters.
But its reliability in stopping a mob that has begun to flee is suspect.
I suppose in an open area it would work, but in a confined space in a
dungeon you are really only going to get one shot at casting the root.
If you are resisted on that cast or it breaks immediately then it is doubtful
that you will stop the mob before something else aggros.
Of course due to the wonderful pathing bugs that plague everquest even
runners do not spell instant death. As long as they are not casters there
are plenty of places to hunt where melee type mobs will never be able to
reach you if you run back and forth fast enough, we all know some of
these don't we?
-K
Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote in message news:MPG.13860a2bc...@news.msu.edu...
Ping
<xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
>It's time inefficient after 44 too. Snared mob takes 66% of the damage
>from your DoT. Rooted takes 100%
>
>>
>> Mind you, Root isn't always reliable, so keep the snare handy.
>
>Actually root is pretty reliable, if you don't blast the mob. And when
>it breaks your root, you can still tank it easily while rerooting,
>barely getting hurt
Yes and no. You'd be surprised the number of consecutive times root
breaks immediatly after hitting. There's times when you just want to
throw your mouse through the wall and just let the thing kick your ass
because you're so frustrated. Recast time however is definatly short
enough.
I think the reason why this happens to druids is because they also
dish out some damage, (about 100) each time.
Seems kind of silly, but whatever. It's fair, and it works. Play on.
>
>> If
>> your root breaks, snare it and run away until you can try and root it
>> again. (whoa, 10 mana?)
>
>Big deal, root is what, 40 mana?
No. It's 80 mana at 39, and 100 mana at 49.
But yes, you're right, big deal.
>And you cast 2 the entire fight.
If it holds.
>And
>you get to meditate during the fight, combining downtime with fight time
>And there's a reason he doesn't keep snare handy too :) Shamans don't
>have snare
>
Jesus, can you imagine Shamans with snare? My god.
Coconut Monkey
> Wow this thread has wandered from 'How do you stop runners'
> into a way to powerlevel up to level 48. Impressive.
actually it began as "best solo and group class." but whatever. how
come no one has mentioned SoW as part of kiting? I'm only lvl 6, so i
have no idea what the hell i'm talking about, but from what i've read
SoW is a vital part of kiting. just wondering.
Sergey Dashevskiy
ksu...@mindspring.com says...
> I think everyone knows root is better for dealing damage to monsters.
Yet there are still a lot of people that are saying that snare is better
than root in any situation
> But its reliability in stopping a mob that has begun to flee is suspect.
Correct. At that point snare and root are about similar. The difference
is that people usually cast snare before the mob runs. Most players miss
that part, and think that the way to use root is to cast it when the mob
is running.
After "your root spell breaks" messages were introduced, it not only
became possible, but also easy to control runners with root
> I suppose in an open area it would work, but in a confined space in a
> dungeon you are really only going to get one shot at casting the root.
Yes. When the mob is at 40% health.
> If you are resisted on that cast or it breaks immediately then it is doubtful
> that you will stop the mob before something else aggros.
When the ranger decided to not snare the mob in Guk, I was chasing that
fucker for about 5 minutes. Ran into a few level 15's wondering around.
Nothing aggroed
>
> Of course due to the wonderful pathing bugs that plague everquest even
> runners do not spell instant death. As long as they are not casters there
> are plenty of places to hunt where melee type mobs will never be able to
> reach you if you run back and forth fast enough, we all know some of
> these don't we?
>
>
--
Sergey Dashevskiy
Pi...@iluv.yourmom.com says...
> On Fri, 12 May 2000 13:32:19 -0400, Sergey Dashevskiy
> <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
>
> >It's time inefficient after 44 too. Snared mob takes 66% of the damage
> >from your DoT. Rooted takes 100%
> >
> >>
> >> Mind you, Root isn't always reliable, so keep the snare handy.
> >
> >Actually root is pretty reliable, if you don't blast the mob. And when
> >it breaks your root, you can still tank it easily while rerooting,
> >barely getting hurt
>
> Yes and no. You'd be surprised the number of consecutive times root
> breaks immediatly after hitting. There's times when you just want to
> throw your mouse through the wall and just let the thing kick your ass
> because you're so frustrated. Recast time however is definatly short
> enough.
Very strange. I have seen it happen, but not as much as to make any
noticeable difference. However, it may be related to the fact that I've
only played my shaman to 30 so far, or to differences between root and
the druid version of it. Druid root may also be easier to resist,
considering its dual effect.
>
> I think the reason why this happens to druids is because they also
> dish out some damage, (about 100) each time.
>
> Seems kind of silly, but whatever. It's fair, and it works. Play on.
>
> >
> >> If
> >> your root breaks, snare it and run away until you can try and root it
> >> again. (whoa, 10 mana?)
> >
> >Big deal, root is what, 40 mana?
>
> No. It's 80 mana at 39, and 100 mana at 49.
From what I hear on shaman boards, original root is better, if you
intend to beat up the mob. Upgrades last longer if noone touches the
mob, but nothing else.
>
> But yes, you're right, big deal.
>
> >And you cast 2 the entire fight.
>
> If it holds.
>
> >And
> >you get to meditate during the fight, combining downtime with fight time
> >And there's a reason he doesn't keep snare handy too :) Shamans don't
> >have snare
> >
>
> Jesus, can you imagine Shamans with snare? My god.
>
> "We have enough YOUTH, how about a fountain of SMART?!"
>
--
NBarnes
> Sergey Dashevskiy wrote:
> >Actually root is pretty reliable, if you don't blast the mob. And
> >when it breaks your root, you can still tank it easily while
> >rerooting, barely getting hurt
> Yes and no. You'd be surprised the number of consecutive times
> root breaks immediatly after hitting. There's times when you just
> want to throw your mouse through the wall and just let the thing
> kick your ass because you're so frustrated. Recast time however
> is definatly short enough.
>
> I think the reason why this happens to druids is because they also
> dish out some damage, (about 100) each time.
I am seriously curious. I've recently started using the druid's
roots (druid&bard, I root, DoT, and med while the bard sings at it),
and, while I'm certainly pleased with the 49th root, it instant
breaks a fair amount of the time. Is that a specific problem with
druid roots or does it happen with the main root line as well?
That is to say, if I were using Immobilize or Enstill or whatever,
instead of Engulfing Roots, would the times that the spell isn't
resisted but breaks instantly turn into times the spell just held?
Ping
<xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
>Very strange. I have seen it happen, but not as much as to make any
>noticeable difference. However, it may be related to the fact that I've
>only played my shaman to 30 so far, or to differences between root and
>the druid version of it. Druid root may also be easier to resist,
>considering its dual effect.
>
I think that's the ticket. I don't know anything about shaman root,
but I would imagine it has no damage when it hits.
>
>From what I hear on shaman boards, original root is better, if you
>intend to beat up the mob. Upgrades last longer if noone touches the
>mob, but nothing else.
>
And this brings up another point! It's so much better if No one
touches the MoB, EVER! DoT it, and leave it alone! This is why a
majority of Shaman(s)/Druids solo.
This is also why I have devised a set of rules if you want to team
with me as partners. Mind you, in a full group, none of these apply.
1) Do not cast spells on my MoB. If you do, my root will break and
the MoB will want to hurt me. This is unacceptable because:
a) I do not want to die.
b) I really do not want to die.
2) Do not try and melee my MoB. If you do, the MoB will want to hurt
you. This is unacceptable because:
a) If a MoB is triple hitting your for 300 damage a round I'm
going to have to stand up and heal you and waste my mana.
b) Im sure you don't want to die either.
and finally, the most important:
3) You must be able to cast clarity.
Ping
Sang K. Choe
>On Thu, 11 May 2000 21:43:15 GMT, s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam
>Schlansky) wrote:
>>
>>Hardly. Root is total shit compared to snare.
>>
>>Sure, it WORKS, but it's inferior in every, EVERY, way. I'd take a weapon that
>>proc'd snare over one that proc'd venom of snake.
>>
>>Well, maybe not... but it'd be close.
>
>You're wrong. Root is phenominal. Level 49 root that (at times)
>lasts for 2 minutes and 30 seconds? Jesus, if you're not using this
>you're a retard.
Yep, last night experiments showed it to hold long enough for two
drifting death + breath of ro.
One problem though, I rarely got it to stick on the first shot.
Snare, run a bit, root, breaks both instantly. Resnare, run a bit,
root sticks (usually--the ravishing drolvgars would occasionally
resist the second attempt and would often take as much as 4 shots to
park...that's 400 mana points to stop the damn beasty).
Now if I had used this to stop runners, I would be screwed since that
first resist may have been my only chance to stop it before it turned
a corner.
So no, to stop runners, he is absolutely not wrong.
>And what the hell is wrong with using root in conjunction with snare?
Because root breaks snare? And snare doesn't overwrite root?
>OK, so you root a mob and root breaks. You stand up, snare it, run
>about 15 feet, turn around and cast root again.
We're talking about stopping runners, not rotting (root/dot) mobs.
>Ever since they fixed
>it, druid root will hold itself for AT LEAST (at lvl 49) a minute
>every other time.
If it sticks. I've had about 50% instabreaks/resists last night using
my Engulfing Root (level 49).
-- Sang.
Ben Pocock
>> dungeon you are really only going to get one shot at casting the root.
>
>Yes. When the mob is at 40% health.
Sometimes much earlier than that. You have to con the monster. If it
is TOUGH green, you are in trouble with root. The best bet is to stun
it first, then nail it with a root. Root sucks for immobilising
runners. Sure, it works great sometimes. Othertimes, the root breaks
the first hit. In places where runners are a problem, you cannot count
on root too much.
The great thing about snare is that it is managable. This means you
can snare lots of MOBs and then forget about them. My druid will in
order:
1) Damage shield the tanks
2) Snare the creatures
3) Med and heal during the course of combat
It's far more efficient than standing around waiting for the creature
to get to 40% health. Oh, you think you are going to sit and med while
targetting the creature and then get up and root it once it hits 40%.
Think again ;-).
Sergey Dashevskiy
sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com says...
> >Ever since they fixed
> >it, druid root will hold itself for AT LEAST (at lvl 49) a minute
> >every other time.
>
> If it sticks. I've had about 50% instabreaks/resists last night using
> my Engulfing Root (level 49).
Have you ever tried real Root? As in the one that shamans, wizards,
chanters, clerics, paladins and necros get? It has single effect (no
damage), and sticks much better
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
>guess away wrote:
>
>> >:> >how do you stop runners?
>> >:> That's why we druids have snare. it's a quick and cheap spell,
>> >:> easily one of the best spells in the game.
>
>> >: Snare is wonderful. But I don't think that snare/ensnare alone
>> >: are quite as good as the cumulative effect of slowdowns, 40%
>> >: better DoTs, pets, and better AC. Certainly snare would have been
>> >: totally irrelevant if I had been in Alasdair's position, because
>> >: I, in a million years, could _never_ solo a 47th level drolvarg
>> >: at close quarters. I wouldn't even be able to come close.
>
>> >(waits for 'guess away' to come in and tell you how much you're
>> >wrong and how much druids rock).
>
>> Hmm. Is this person asking for druids to be buffed? Doesn't look that
>> way. But yes, in general, druids do rock. Fun class to play. Fun class
>> to have in group.
>
> I don't find it fun to be in a group and look around and see
>_exactly_ how little I'm actually doing to earn my XP (and the XP
>was amazing) compared to the enchanter, shaman, or rogue.
> Druids to be buffed? Er... druids don't _suck_, quite. Wizards,
>now wizards just plain need to be better.
Actually, wizard are given some new DDs that finally makes sense.
Faster casting, lower damage (but as good if not better mana
efficiency) and lower resist nukes--definately what they should have
been getting rather than that stupid ice comet nonsense.
On the otherhand, druids are getting what sub-50 wizards got--big
freaking nukes that impress the clueless but are otherwise huge mana
sinks. So many mages were bitching about how Wildfire was a bigger
nuke than what they were getting. The reality: Wildfire is a level
59 (!) spell with a 6.5 second casting time doing 1024/320mana checked
against a mob's fire resistence (meaning those wurms which should be
exp fodder for 59+ level players are gonna shrug it off with a laugh).
The only redeeming factor here is the dots we get. Those make our
damage output vs downtime something reasonable. And unless they mark
those wurms as animals mobs (or introduce some really high level
animal mobs to the game), it's gonna suck something fierce at level
55+.
-- Sang.
abatt...@netscape.net
> A good, efficient Druid who knows what the hell they're doing of
> decent level (44+) can hold the 4 spawn of citizens at the BB docks
> all day and never have any down time, with the use of only 2 spells.
did i say how many dorfs i was holding? no.
so how do you know i wasn't taking all four? :P
i have done so quite easily (level 40, too).
two spells, oh joy. so i use more spells. what does that matter? i have 8
slots i can memorize spells in.
> Im not gonna go into the numbers because it doesn't really matter.
it does matter. you can't measure efficiency without something to measure
with. thats what the numbers are for.
> Yes. snare/nuke Kiting is totally inefficient. TOTALLY mana
> inefficient and if you're doing it, and you have the level 44 DoT,
> you're a moron. Before this level, eh, I can see the nuke method
> being acceptable.
heh. i did see a 45th level druid AE kiting the three at den's spawn. quite
amusing.
> Mind you, Root isn't always reliable, so keep the snare handy. If
if i had snare.
i use enstill. in my experience it is more reliable than plain root. i have
regularly had enstill hold the entire duration of the dorfs short life.
> your root breaks, snare it and run away until you can try and root it
> again. (whoa, 10 mana?)
bah. flash of light :P
> Amount of mana left at the end of each dorf if everything goes
> according to plans? 4 bubbles. If not? 3 bubbles. Sit down and
> fill up before the next one spawns. You'll be level 48 before you can
> blink.
let's see. what did i say about how much mana i had left? 3.5 to 4 bubbles.
wow. amazing it was that close.
keep in mind that the druid that was at low mana when he was done was level
41. he didn't have the 44th level spells.
abatt...@netscape.net
> Actually root is pretty reliable, if you don't blast the mob. And when
> it breaks your root, you can still tank it easily while rerooting,
> barely getting hurt
not a druid against a BB dorf. they hit for 92 max, and on a nonarmoured
druid (ie, most of them) thats going to be the hit most of the time. and they
double attack frequently as well.
> Big deal, root is what, 40 mana? And you cast 2 the entire fight. And
> you get to meditate during the fight, combining downtime with fight time
> And there's a reason he doesn't keep snare handy too :) Shamans don't
> have snare
no, i keep flash of light handy. once you learn the pathing they take when
flashed, its better than snaring to re-root the mob.
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
> I am seriously curious. I've recently started using the druid's
>roots (druid&bard, I root, DoT, and med while the bard sings at it),
>and, while I'm certainly pleased with the 49th root, it instant
>breaks a fair amount of the time. Is that a specific problem with
>druid roots or does it happen with the main root line as well?
>That is to say, if I were using Immobilize or Enstill or whatever,
>instead of Engulfing Roots, would the times that the spell isn't
>resisted but breaks instantly turn into times the spell just held?
I can honestly say I've never seen as many instabreaks with neither my
wizard nor my enchanter roots. Outright resists? Yes, the number of
resists are about the same for druids and wizard/enchanters. But
instabreaks, no way not even remotely close.
The one good thing about our 49th level root is that once you get it
to stick, you're garanteed to have at least 30 seconds before it
breaks (assuming no nitwit starts nuking/hitting the mob). And it's
usually good for 90 seconds--sometimes as high as 2 and half minutes.
The longest I ever parked a blue con mob with it was 3 mins and 30
seconds. It was four casts of drifting death and the critter broke
root about half way through the fourth drifting--of course, it took
two steps towards me and keeled over dead.
But when you get 2 or 3 instabreaks, those 100mana per pop roots get
mighty expensive mighty fast...I'm eagerly looking forward to our 56th
spell, engorging root--75 mana, 170+ damage (decent DD damage if
nothing else) and with a 1.75 second casting time.
-- Sang.
abatt...@netscape.net
> Yes and no. You'd be surprised the number of consecutive times root
> breaks immediatly after hitting.
hence i use enstill. i RARELY have that problem.
> I think the reason why this happens to druids is because they also
> dish out some damage, (about 100) each time.
that was supposedly fixed recently.
>>Big deal, root is what, 40 mana?
> No. It's 80 mana at 39, and 100 mana at 49.
14th level shaman root is 40 mana, enstill is 60. if i recall correctly :)
> Jesus, can you imagine Shamans with snare? My god.
snare.
/pet kill
flash of light.
repeat flash.
look, i can reverse kite like a necro. :)
Ping
>Ping <Pi...@iluv.yourmom.com> wrote:
>> A good, efficient Druid who knows what the hell they're doing of
>> decent level (44+) can hold the 4 spawn of citizens at the BB docks
>> all day and never have any down time, with the use of only 2 spells.
>
>did i say how many dorfs i was holding? no.
>
>so how do you know i wasn't taking all four? :P
>
>i have done so quite easily (level 40, too).
Never said it wasn't possible, but I'll bet you have some downtime,
i.e. one spawns and you can't immidiately kill it. Not like that
matters but I need to combat your defensiveness.
>
>two spells, oh joy. so i use more spells. what does that matter? i have 8
>slots i can memorize spells in.
>
Never said it did matter! What the fuck? No need to get all
defensive here for crying out loud. I was just talking about the most
efficient way to do things.
>> Im not gonna go into the numbers because it doesn't really matter.
>
>it does matter. you can't measure efficiency without something to measure
>with. thats what the numbers are for.
>
I'm measuring efficiency with experience. I've seen it, so I know
it's true. Just like those 800 pound midevil weap....erm, I'm not
going there.
>> Yes. snare/nuke Kiting is totally inefficient. TOTALLY mana
>> inefficient and if you're doing it, and you have the level 44 DoT,
>> you're a moron. Before this level, eh, I can see the nuke method
>> being acceptable.
>
>heh. i did see a 45th level druid AE kiting the three at den's spawn. quite
>amusing.
>
Yeah, this is a nice trick to use when you're showing off. Bloody
hillarious, and really damn cool.
>let's see. what did i say about how much mana i had left? 3.5 to 4 bubbles.
>wow. amazing it was that close.
You're getting the wrong impression that I was disagreeing with your
methods and are becoming very defensive. Its a bad trait.
>
>keep in mind that the druid that was at low mana when he was done was level
>41. he didn't have the 44th level spells.
>--
I realized this..=)
>josh
>Dark Jedi of the Sysadmin Sith Darth ddifdevrandomofslash
Ping
abatt...@netscape.net
> Never said it wasn't possible, but I'll bet you have some downtime,
> i.e. one spawns and you can't immidiately kill it. Not like that
> matters but I need to combat your defensiveness.
downtime was about two minutes.
i won't get defensive if you're not offensive. hence, don't combat me :P
>>two spells, oh joy. so i use more spells. what does that matter? i have 8
>>slots i can memorize spells in.
> Never said it did matter! What the fuck? No need to get all
> defensive here for crying out loud. I was just talking about the most
> efficient way to do things.
you didn't qualify your statement so i didn't know what the purpose of it was.
i interpreted taht to be "ha, i only use two spells to do it, you have to use
four". bah.
> Yeah, this is a nice trick to use when you're showing off. Bloody
> hillarious, and really damn cool.
had a 51st level druid AE kiting spirocs in timourous too. but damn did he
have to med after that (he was in my group, so free experience for me).
>>let's see. what did i say about how much mana i had left? 3.5 to 4 bubbles.
>>wow. amazing it was that close.
> You're getting the wrong impression that I was disagreeing with your
> methods and are becoming very defensive. Its a bad trait.
sorry. my interpretation of what you posted was skewed by how i read your
initial responses. it seemed like an attack to me so i treated it as such in
a way.
phooey.
>>keep in mind that the druid that was at low mana when he was done was level
>>41. he didn't have the 44th level spells.
> I realized this..=)
and i'm also not using my 44th DD to finish the dorfs. hell, i could melee
them down to finish them if i wanted :)
--
NBarnes
> > I think the reason why this happens to druids is because they
> > also dish out some damage, (about 100) each time.
> that was supposedly fixed recently.
Ok. If the instant breaks on druid roots are an artifact of
druid roots (I never used them before the fix, so I have no
basis for comparison), and that's what was supposed to be fixed
in the change, then it sure as hell didn't fix the roots, 'cause
I still get _plenty_ of instant breaks. Now, Engulfing is still
quite useful, to be sure.
Ping
wrote:
Well, actually from what I've observed is that the root breaks FAR
less instantly than it used to. Yes, it does still insta-break
occasionally but when it holds, it HOLDS. BTW damage is 160 for
Engulfing at 51, so all in all it's pretty kickass.
In other words, it was definatly *cough* "fixed".
Sang K. Choe
<xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
>In article <l5iohssiu02ep2nf2...@4ax.com>,
>sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com says...
>> >Ever since they fixed
>> >it, druid root will hold itself for AT LEAST (at lvl 49) a minute
>> >every other time.
>>
>> If it sticks. I've had about 50% instabreaks/resists last night using
>> my Engulfing Root (level 49).
>
>Have you ever tried real Root? As in the one that shamans, wizards,
>chanters, clerics, paladins and necros get? It has single effect (no
>damage), and sticks much better
Yes I have.
My original character was a wizard. My wizard's root (the level 4
variant) worked a helluva lot better than my 49th level druid root.
At least I know with my wizard if I see the "it's rooted bub" message,
I can turn around and see the mob standing still for my nuke.
With my druid, I see the "feet engulfed blah blah" followed
immediately by the stupid "You Engulfing Root has worn off blah blah".
-- Sang.
Kevlar
>touches the MoB, EVER! DoT it, and leave it alone! This is why a
>majority of Shaman(s)/Druids solo.
Yes I agree, I use the root tactic to solo the crocs in upper guk, still
need my legs. Root works fine there. Unfortunately even green
crocs still seem to take about 3 roots to get it to stick. Once snared
it isn't a big deal but come on, green mobs need 3 roots?
The damage druids do up front with root is useless, combined with the
fact that it auto-breaks the damn thing half the time it really sucks.
Thank goodness I have never seen a root break from a DOT, even
applying the DOT does not seem to break it.
-K
Kevlar
92 but a smart druid is never going to get hit, even the occasional
lag or screw up is going to be fixed quickly by regen, which you
should have by the time you solo those guys.
The dwarves dont have alot of hp either, the slower spawns are not a
problem to snare/burn and just med back to full before the next pop.
-K
Sang K. Choe
>Well, actually from what I've observed is that the root breaks FAR
>less instantly than it used to.
Sorry, don't notice any real difference--I have logs from pre-fix and
post-fix. So far they are pretty much the same.
>Yes, it does still insta-break
>occasionally but when it holds, it HOLDS. BTW damage is 160 for
>Engulfing at 51, so all in all it's pretty kickass.
That's a 100mana for 160hps of damage--that's 1.6 ratio. Hardly
kickass--not even close to a love tap as far as ass kicking goes.
That's worse than Combust as far as mana efficiency is concerned.
>In other words, it was definatly *cough* "fixed".
Blech!
-- Sang.
Tim Smith
>White Rider wrote:
>> What do you think is the best class for soloing and grouping? My
>> thoughts were:
>> solo: druid. SoW and DoT. nuff said.
>> group: cleric. super heal, buffs, and decent melee.
>
> So, um... you've never played a class past 20th, right? If the
>druid is 'SoW and DoT. nuff said', what about shamans? They get
>DoTs, too, and ones that are between 35% and 50% better than druids',
>depending on level, and SoW, and pets, and slows. The fact is that
>past 34th level, shamans are just plain better soloers than druids.
How does harmony fit in here? At the low levels, at least, one of the
problems I've had with my soloing (wizard, rogue, ranger, shaman, bard) is
that I've got to pass on orc and goblin and gnoll camps, because I can't get
just one. I have more downtime because I can't find something to fight
than I do from medding or healing after the fights. It seems harmony
would greatly increase the number of things a soloist could fight. Does
that change at high levels (e.g., are the things high levels solo things
that don't hang out in camps)?
--Tim Smith
Kevlar
crazy. Also casters are very difficult for a druid to solo and most
high level camps have casters. Druids cannot interrupt their spells
and it only takes a few nukes to kill a druid.
I tried shadowed men when they were blue, not recommended for
soloing. harmony rarely worked and I dont know which are harder
to kill, the necros or the clerics. I guess the clerics. You blast them
till they are about dead and they cast greater heal. Solo stick to melee
mobs.
-K
NBarnes
> How does harmony fit in here? At the low levels, at least, one
> of the problems I've had with my soloing (wizard, rogue, ranger,
> shaman, bard) is that I've got to pass on orc and goblin and
> gnoll camps, because I can't get just one. I have more downtime
> because I can't find something to fight than I do from medding or
> healing after the fights. It seems harmony would greatly increase
> the number of things a soloist could fight. Does that change at
> high levels (e.g., are the things high levels solo things that
> don't hang out in camps)?
Harmony is useful, but does not radically increase the number of
places a druid can solo that a shaman could not. In addition,
because of a shaman's much greater armor, ability to cut the
amount of damage a mob does in melee by 40% or more, and pet,
shamans can solo in a lot of places that a druid cannot.
Kevlar
>kickass--not even close to a love tap as far as ass kicking goes.
>That's worse than Combust as far as mana efficiency is concerned.
Yeah the damage would be icing on the cake, but the icing is bad cause
the damage breaks the friggin root. This just means we pay more mana
for a less effective spell.
Thanks Verant.
(Druids should root the best not the worst, the roots are supposed to be
our tree hugging friends after all.....)
-K
Larry
even on clerics and necros.
Larry Chang
Kevlar wrote:
> Harmony is fine when it works, but higher level mobs resist it like
> crazy. Also casters are very difficult for a druid to solo and most
> high level camps have casters. Druids cannot interrupt their spells
> and it only takes a few nukes to kill a druid.
>
> I tried shadowed men when they were blue, not recommended for
> soloing. harmony rarely worked and I dont know which are harder
> to kill, the necros or the clerics. I guess the clerics. You blast them
> till they are about dead and they cast greater heal. Solo stick to melee
> mobs.
>
> -K
>
> > How does harmony fit in here? At the low levels, at least, one of the
> > problems I've had with my soloing (wizard, rogue, ranger, shaman, bard) is
> > that I've got to pass on orc and goblin and gnoll camps, because I can't get
> > just one. I have more downtime because I can't find something to fight
> > than I do from medding or healing after the fights. It seems harmony
> > would greatly increase the number of things a soloist could fight. Does
> > that change at high levels (e.g., are the things high levels solo things
> > that don't hang out in camps)?
> >
> > --Tim Smith
hughes
resisted. Not
> even on clerics and necros.
Hmm well you either got very lucky , or :)
gasp you are high enough level to pull singles with a ranged attack. Happens
at 34 I think?
Larry
a success, but the necro feared me : (
Just remember that harmonying and pulling more than the intented does not
necessarily mean harmony failed. A more possible reason is that the sk you
tried to pull run pasts another closely. If a aggro mob run past another one
very closely, the harmony breaks and you will pull 2.
Larry Chang
Sergey Dashevskiy
Pi...@iluv.yourmom.com says...
> Never said it wasn't possible, but I'll bet you have some downtime,
> i.e. one spawns and you can't immidiately kill it. Not like that
> matters but I need to combat your defensiveness.
>
Shamans have a poor man's version of clarity -- chloro/cannibalize. It's
not much, and jumping up/down can get annoying, but it's a decent way to
reduce downtime
Sergey Dashevskiy
abatt...@netscape.net says...
> Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
> > Actually root is pretty reliable, if you don't blast the mob. And when
> > it breaks your root, you can still tank it easily while rerooting,
> > barely getting hurt
>
> druid (ie, most of them) thats going to be the hit most of the time. and they
> double attack frequently as well.
>
> > you get to meditate during the fight, combining downtime with fight time
> > And there's a reason he doesn't keep snare handy too :) Shamans don't
> > have snare
>
> no, i keep flash of light handy. once you learn the pathing they take when
> flashed, its better than snaring to re-root the mob.
>
>
This dorf thread is making it look interesting. How are their resistances
to magic? Mebbe I should try them with my bard. Not sure if I would need
charm, or if snare-fear would work, or just tank them.
Alasdair Allan
> >druid is 'SoW and DoT. nuff said', what about shamans? They get
> >DoTs, too, and ones that are between 35% and 50% better than druids',
> >depending on level, and SoW, and pets, and slows. The fact is that
> >past 34th level, shamans are just plain better soloers than druids.
>
If its outdoor, it lets a Druid solo something that they could not otherwise
consider attacking.
The Shaman can often engage multiple mobs at the same time while solo.
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
Sang K. Choe
>Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
>> Actually root is pretty reliable, if you don't blast the mob. And when
>> it breaks your root, you can still tank it easily while rerooting,
>> barely getting hurt
>
>not a druid against a BB dorf. they hit for 92 max, and on a nonarmoured
>druid (ie, most of them) thats going to be the hit most of the time. and they
>double attack frequently as well.
The dwarves hit no harder than some of the crap around Karnor. And a
druid's AC stops climbing at level 40 (unless said druid didn't cap
his/her defense). A druid can obtain 750+ AC without resorting to
plane armor.
With 750+ AC against 35th level dwarves in BB, you (assuming 40+
druid) should be able to tank it quite easily to get another cast of
root (~2 seconds or so).
Of course, it's a good bet that root won't stick and give you that
annoying instabreak message.
-- Sang.
Matthew Mc Clement
>
> In article <VU_S4.115551$U4.8...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>,
> abatt...@netscape.net says...
> > > Actually root is pretty reliable, if you don't blast the mob. And when
> > > it breaks your root, you can still tank it easily while rerooting,
> > > barely getting hurt
> >
> > not a druid against a BB dorf. they hit for 92 max, and on a nonarmoured
> > druid (ie, most of them) thats going to be the hit most of the time. and they
> > double attack frequently as well.
> >
> > > you get to meditate during the fight, combining downtime with fight time
> > > And there's a reason he doesn't keep snare handy too :) Shamans don't
> > > have snare
> >
> > no, i keep flash of light handy. once you learn the pathing they take when
> > flashed, its better than snaring to re-root the mob.
> >
> >
>
> This dorf thread is making it look interesting. How are their resistances
> to magic? Mebbe I should try them with my bard. Not sure if I would need
> charm, or if snare-fear would work, or just tank them.
Resistance's are pretty low. Charm doesn't work too well though, unless you have
a couple sow potions or you are *really* good at juggling Selo's, charm and
chains. To use charm to kill the dwarves you need to snare one, switch to the
other, charm it and then send it in to attack. If you don't snare one, it will
just run after you at full speed and the charmed one will also just run at full
speed without catching up to the one it is trying to kill. And don't try let
them catch up to you too much. They are like griffawns in that they hit for 92,
and hit regularly for 92. And constantly double attack. And bash on a very
regular basis. And from what I've seen playing my friends level 41 bard, bash is
not conducive to a bards health. I've never tried snare-fear, might actually
work.
Matt
Sang K. Choe
<xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
>> If you are resisted on that cast or it breaks immediately then it is doubtful
>> that you will stop the mob before something else aggros.
>
>When the ranger decided to not snare the mob in Guk, I was chasing that
>fucker for about 5 minutes. Ran into a few level 15's wondering around.
>Nothing aggroed
Level 15 green won't aggro.
Level 18+ green will. Try it near some 18+ green froggies and you'll
see a wall of hopping pissed off frogs wanting a piece of your hide
(ie., try it near some shins, noks, tons, etc... and you'll see what I
mean)
-- Sang.
abatt...@netscape.net
> shamans can solo in a lot of places that a druid cannot.
most often this is in dungeons or if outside places where kiting is limited or
dangerous (kithicor and seafuries come to mind).
Ping
<sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
>The dwarves hit no harder than some of the crap around Karnor. And a
>druid's AC stops climbing at level 40 (unless said druid didn't cap
>his/her defense). A druid can obtain 750+ AC without resorting to
>plane armor.
>
Yep. Your AC as a 40+ druid should be anough where you can stand
there and take a whack or two to get another snare/root off and be
able to run away.
>With 750+ AC against 35th level dwarves in BB, you (assuming 40+
>druid) should be able to tank it quite easily to get another cast of
>root (~2 seconds or so).
This goes for any MoB who doesn't hit for 400 per round.
>Of course, it's a good bet that root won't stick and give you that
>annoying instabreak message.
>
>-- Sang.
I'm one of the people who advocate druid root. I love it, I use it, I
live by it.
However,
It's STILL FOOKING BROKEN. Over the weekend, I almost put my fist
through the wall (not really, figure of speech) as I proceeded to get
an insta break 11 (That's read ELEVEN) consecutive times on a forest
giant verdant. (not too bloody hard, might be a level 38 MoB, I'm
level 51, etc etc) Good thing it was near dead and one Starfire
finished it off, but that blew my entire bar of mana.
11 InstaBreaks? Bad luck my ass. Jesus Mary Christmas.
abatt...@netscape.net
> This dorf thread is making it look interesting. How are their resistances
> to magic?
dorfs have a low resistance to magic if you're higher level (and i know your
bard is - 42 now?). i had a difficult time getting some spells to stick on
them before 35 - root and flash of light were highly resisted. malisement
fairly resisted, but after 36 i didn't need to cast it.
> Mebbe I should try them with my bard. Not sure if I would need
> charm, or if snare-fear would work, or just tank them.
i saw a level 40 bard soloing them one day. he'd charm one and kite the
other...
he said was easier than hill giants by far.
abatt...@netscape.net
> Thank goodness I have never seen a root break from a DOT, even
> applying the DOT does not seem to break it.
i've had enstill break when scourging or venoming stuff. kinda rare though,
since its only 40 damage.
i've had enstill break while the DoTs were working, too. uncommon, not rare.
mostly it will stick for the whole duration of the mob's life. :)
Ping
wrote:
>Harmony is fine when it works, but higher level mobs resist it like
>crazy.
<SNIP>
I have never, ever, ever, ever had Harmony resisted. I have been
casting it for 45 levels since I got it.
Never have I recieved this message:
NoTarget has resisted your Harmony spell.
Keep in mind, it's best to Harmo every MoB in the bunch to make sure
they are all hit with it instead of relying on the AE.
If you're careful, this works.
abatt...@netscape.net
>>druid (ie, most of them) thats going to be the hit most of the time. and they
>>double attack frequently as well.
> The dwarves hit no harder than some of the crap around Karnor. And a
but i wasn't talking about stuff around karnor's. :P
> druid's AC stops climbing at level 40 (unless said druid didn't cap
> his/her defense). A druid can obtain 750+ AC without resorting to
> plane armor.
sure. i know they can. but almost all the druids i see are wearing foreman's
tunic, gator legs, etc. very few wearing BCP and chitin legs are of the level
that would hunt these dorfs - they did that five levels ago <G>.
nor do they have capped defense in a lot of cases (hell, i melee quite a bit
with my shaman and still have only 193).
> With 750+ AC against 35th level dwarves in BB, you (assuming 40+
> druid) should be able to tank it quite easily to get another cast of
> root (~2 seconds or so).
indeed. and with 806 AC i rarely even get hit, let alone for max damage
(usually in the 40's). but in my post i said "unarmoured druid (most of
them)". i didn't say "intelligent, properly equipped druid". :)
> Of course, it's a good bet that root won't stick and give you that
> annoying instabreak message.
but if you're a druid, it is pretty stupid (in my observation) to even try
rotting these things. granted they have low hit points (1635), but rotting
them is too slow for druids. you're better off nuke kiting it with snare.
on the other hand i kill them in 2 minutes with my shaman via rotting. :)
Sang K. Choe
>On Sat, 13 May 2000 10:57:40 -0400, "Kevlar" <ksu...@mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Harmony is fine when it works, but higher level mobs resist it like
>>crazy.
>
><SNIP>
>
>I have never, ever, ever, ever had Harmony resisted. I have been
>casting it for 45 levels since I got it.
Harmony is rarely, if ever resisted (although Redwind did give a
resisted message). However, harmony just reduces the aggro range of
the mobs. Because the reduction is a factor of your level vs. the
level of the mob, it's very possible that the reduced aggro range
isn't small enough for you to single pull--giving rise to the "it's
resisted" claims from various druids and rangers.
>Never have I recieved this message:
>
>NoTarget has resisted your Harmony spell.
My friend's druid got it from Redwind once--and it was also the only
time. I remember walking over to his machine and having him scroll up
the text buffer to make sure.
-- Sang.
Ping
Ah OK, that explains it.
Who the hell is Redwind?
(Actually, I know who Redwind is I just never killed him. I never set
foot into Everfrost until I was too big for him)
Is this the only MoB that resists it? Anyone else? I find it hard to
believe that someone would go and code up this one stupid Icy Orc as
being the only thing that can resist Harmony.
Although I wouldn't put it past them.......
Sergey Dashevskiy
says...
> Resistance's are pretty low. Charm doesn't work too well though, unless you have
> a couple sow potions or you are *really* good at juggling Selo's, charm and
> chains.
Hmm, weird, I didn't need chains or sow for HGs
> To use charm to kill the dwarves you need to snare one, switch to the
> other, charm it and then send it in to attack. If you don't snare one, it will
> just run after you at full speed and the charmed one will also just run at full
> speed without catching up to the one it is trying to kill.
I start by tanking a few rounds, having my pet catch up to it. Then you
run far away. When charm breaks, they both run to you. When new charm
lands, they start fighting again, because your target hatest your peet
more at this point -- pet is closer to it
> And don't try let
> them catch up to you too much. They are like griffawns in that they hit for 92,
> and hit regularly for 92.
I'll have to check on that. Forest Giant Verdants (high blue to me,
within couple levels from me), hit me for 20-40, rarely 120.
> And constantly double attack.
> And bash on a very
> regular basis. And from what I've seen playing my friends level 41 bard, bash is
> not conducive to a bards health. I've never tried snare-fear, might actually
> work.
I'll have to try both and let you know. Snare-fear is a good thing to
kill the pet usually, but not to fight. With my damage it takes waay too
long
>
> Matt
>
>
--
Vedun, 30th tank mage
Xirin, 31st retired druid
Xirinia Gusl'ar, 42nd tanking bard of Povar, guildless
Run fast, die often, leave a well dressed corpse.
Sergey Dashevskiy
@netscape.net says...
> NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > shamans can solo in a lot of places that a druid cannot.
>
> most often this is in dungeons or if outside places where kiting is limited or
> dangerous (kithicor and seafuries come to mind).
>
*Sigh* I saw a druid solo in Karnor's yesterday. I mean inside, not in
Dreadlands near Castle's entrance. He was kiting a drolvarg from zone to
zone. The trains didn't help him much
Sang K. Choe
>Sang K. Choe <sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> wrote:
>>>not a druid against a BB dorf. they hit for 92 max, and on a nonarmoured
>>>druid (ie, most of them) thats going to be the hit most of the time. and they
>>>double attack frequently as well.
>
>> The dwarves hit no harder than some of the crap around Karnor. And a
>
>but i wasn't talking about stuff around karnor's. :P
>
>> druid's AC stops climbing at level 40 (unless said druid didn't cap
>> his/her defense). A druid can obtain 750+ AC without resorting to
>> plane armor.
>
>sure. i know they can. but almost all the druids i see are wearing foreman's
>tunic, gator legs, etc. very few wearing BCP and chitin legs are of the level
>that would hunt these dorfs - they did that five levels ago <G>.
Foreman's tunic is AC10, BCP is AC12.
Gatorlegs is AC7, Chitin legs are AC7.
There is very little in the way of druid armor upgrades available.
Hell, even our Verm Tunic is only AC15--if you're a non-halfling
druid, you have the option of the Tree Weave, but you can still get
750+ AC without resorting to that item.
By level 40+, you're pretty much at a point where you can get all the
non-planer armor that a druid can have.
>nor do they have capped defense in a lot of cases (hell, i melee quite a bit
>with my shaman and still have only 193).
This is often the big problem. They kite too much resulting in a much
lower defense than they should be at.
>but if you're a druid, it is pretty stupid (in my observation) to even try
>rotting these things. granted they have low hit points (1635), but rotting
>them is too slow for druids.
Rotting mobs is always more efficient for druids. The time it takes
for you to regen mana is a fixed value. That means however you take
down the mob if there is a method which can result in you using less
overall mana, then that's the most efficient way.
Rotting is the most mana efficient way for a solo druid to kill
things. Therefore, it's the way that results in the least overall
downtime.
>you're better off nuke kiting it with snare.
You may think you're doing it faster but you're not. It may take you
40 seconds to kill the mob, but you'll sit on your butt medding for 3
mins. Whereas rotting, it may take you 2 minutes to kill the mob, but
you spend only another minute after the mob drops to med.
Now if the mobs are on a fixed timer like the dwarves, it probably
won't make much difference either way (since you're spending a large
portion of the time waiting for the mob to pop). But for general
purpose hunting, rotting is always the perferred way to solo.
-- Sang.
abatt...@netscape.net
>>sure. i know they can. but almost all the druids i see are wearing foreman's
>>tunic, gator legs, etc. very few wearing BCP and chitin legs are of the level
>>that would hunt these dorfs - they did that five levels ago <G>.
> Foreman's tunic is AC10, BCP is AC12.
> Gatorlegs is AC7, Chitin legs are AC7.
heh. still low AC. i didn't realize it was that close.
> By level 40+, you're pretty much at a point where you can get all the
> non-planer armor that a druid can have.
bah, my shaman has close to all the best nonplanar AC gear a shaman can get.
there's a few items i still need, though.
> This is often the big problem. They kite too much resulting in a much
> lower defense than they should be at.
perhaps this is and argument FOR porcupining then? :)
> Rotting mobs is always more efficient for druids. The time it takes
even when you have to renew root because it instabreaks five times in a row?
i'm not sure about that one. maybe.
> Rotting is the most mana efficient way for a solo druid to kill
> things. Therefore, it's the way that results in the least overall
> downtime.
its extremely mana efficient. it still remains, however, that i see druids
nuke-kiting. heh.
> You may think you're doing it faster but you're not. It may take you
> 40 seconds to kill the mob, but you'll sit on your butt medding for 3
> mins. Whereas rotting, it may take you 2 minutes to kill the mob, but
> you spend only another minute after the mob drops to med.
indeed. i didn't know that druid dots were effective enough to do that, or
that the root instabreak was changed that they can do this. i know that is
100% true for my shaman.
> Now if the mobs are on a fixed timer like the dwarves, it probably
> won't make much difference either way (since you're spending a large
> portion of the time waiting for the mob to pop). But for general
> purpose hunting, rotting is always the perferred way to solo.
i'll see about inquiring with some druids about that. i definately rot mobs
when soloing with my shaman. hell, i haven't used the wolf for soloing much
since i got venom of snake :)
Ping
>> Rotting mobs is always more efficient for druids. The time it takes
>
>even when you have to renew root because it instabreaks five times in a row?
>
Very very very rare, but yes, still happens. Usually, (see below)
every other root allows you to sit for at least 1 minute. Still
though, much more mana efficient.
>
>> Rotting is the most mana efficient way for a solo druid to kill
>> things. Therefore, it's the way that results in the least overall
>> downtime.
>
>its extremely mana efficient. it still remains, however, that i see druids
>nuke-kiting. heh.
You're watching idiots..=)
>
>> You may think you're doing it faster but you're not. It may take you
>> 40 seconds to kill the mob, but you'll sit on your butt medding for 3
>> mins. Whereas rotting, it may take you 2 minutes to kill the mob, but
>> you spend only another minute after the mob drops to med.
>
Well, perhaps with Clarity. I find myself needing clarity as a total
necessity when soloing.
>indeed. i didn't know that druid dots were effective enough to do that, or
>that the root instabreak was changed that they can do this. i know that is
>100% true for my shaman.
>
Well, As I said in an earlier post, I almost lost my sh*t this weekend
when I got eleven consecutive instabreaks on one MGVerdant. So,
either that was garbage luck (most likely) or it still not fooking
fixed.
Druid DoTs are nice. Not spectacular, but nice. This method, you're
doing around 920 damage over 1 minute. Not shabby, TSTL.
>i'll see about inquiring with some druids about that. i definately rot mobs
>when soloing with my shaman. hell, i haven't used the wolf for soloing much
>since i got venom of snake :)
I still think Shaman with snare would be ridiculous. One can only
dream.
>--
>josh
>Dark Jedi of the Sysadmin Sith Darth ddifdevrandomofslash
"We have enough YOUTH, how about a fountain of SMART?!"
abatt...@netscape.net
> Very very very rare, but yes, still happens. Usually, (see below)
> every other root allows you to sit for at least 1 minute. Still
> though, much more mana efficient.
enstill lets me sit for two in most cases :) i've had it stick through one
scourge, two venoms, up to dead dorf. quite a number of times (four on
saturday in fact <G>. that is, out of five. the other took one recast).
>>its extremely mana efficient. it still remains, however, that i see druids
>>nuke-kiting. heh.
> You're watching idiots..=)
could be. i haven't seen too many smart druids. <G>
> Well, perhaps with Clarity. I find myself needing clarity as a total
> necessity when soloing.
i don't. then again, i can cut my down time by approximately 33% with
cannibalize.
not that it matters when you STILL have to wait a couple minutes for the mob
to spawn.
> Well, As I said in an earlier post, I almost lost my sh*t this weekend
> when I got eleven consecutive instabreaks on one MGVerdant. So,
> either that was garbage luck (most likely) or it still not fooking
> fixed.
i'd guess its not fixed :(.
> Druid DoTs are nice. Not spectacular, but nice. This method, you're
> doing around 920 damage over 1 minute. Not shabby, TSTL.
is that with the drones line alone, or drones and immolates both?
> I still think Shaman with snare would be ridiculous. One can only
> dream.
HAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
snare dorf. /pet kill. flash of light, flash of light flash of... :)
Kevlar
little more, not nearly as good as drones. Thing is, not all mobs resist
it. Alot do but you will know the ones that wont, anything that doesnt
have great fire resistance and is a blue con is acceptable. Don't even
think about this spell on a white or better mob, you will blow all your
mana on resists. One full resist and you were probably better off using
a Direct Dmg, you just blew your mana/dmg out the window. Then again,
combust is almost as bad. Most times I just stick to good old Careless
lightnening on high resist or higher level mobs.
-K
>
>Now, I don't know how much dmg immolate does, because as far as I'm
>concerned it's a piece of trash and not worth the spell slot. I
>imagine it only does minimal damage. I can get minimal damage via
>InstaBreak if I want. But if you want to add that in, fine. You're
>going to have to look up the numbers though, laugh.
>
>Ping
Ping
>
>> Druid DoTs are nice. Not spectacular, but nice. This method, you're
>> doing around 920 damage over 1 minute. Not shabby, TSTL.
>
>is that with the drones line alone, or drones and immolates both?
>
That's with the root damage + Drifting Death.
Sang K. Choe
>> This is often the big problem. They kite too much resulting in a much
>> lower defense than they should be at.
>
>perhaps this is and argument FOR porcupining then? :)
Perhaps? No it is the ONLY argument for porcupining. Rotting is
always more efficient. Kiting is safer. Porcupining's sole purpose
is to raise your defense skill so at level 40+, you don't fold like a
cheap lawn chair when something that got some meat behind it's punches
decide to use you as a punching bag.
>> Rotting mobs is always more efficient for druids. The time it takes
>
>even when you have to renew root because it instabreaks five times in a row?
Actually, the cut off point is about 5 refreshes. But of course, the
same thing that makes root resisted can also contribute to resists on
nukes/dots. So the argument goes both ways. But generally rotting is
more efficient.
>> Rotting is the most mana efficient way for a solo druid to kill
>> things. Therefore, it's the way that results in the least overall
>> downtime.
>
>its extremely mana efficient. it still remains, however, that i see druids
>nuke-kiting. heh.
Of course.
Nuke kiting is safer. At worst, you lose the kill and have to zone.
With rotting, there is an element of risk--if you get stunned you may
not be able to get away before your health drops too low to run.
>indeed. i didn't know that druid dots were effective enough to do that, or
>that the root instabreak was changed that they can do this. i know that is
>100% true for my shaman.
When my 49th level root sticks, it sticks hard--usually for 90 seconds
often for more than 2 minutes (my record is well over 3 minutes).
Unfortunately, it doesn't stick that readily.
-- Sang.
Sang K. Choe
>On Tue, 16 May 2000 23:57:39 GMT, abatt...@netscape.net wrote:
>>
>>> Druid DoTs are nice. Not spectacular, but nice. This method, you're
>>> doing around 920 damage over 1 minute. Not shabby, TSTL.
>>
>>is that with the drones line alone, or drones and immolates both?
>
>That's with the root damage + Drifting Death.
>
>Now, I don't know how much dmg immolate does, because as far as I'm
>concerned it's a piece of trash and not worth the spell slot.
The damage/mana of Immolate is lower than our 39th nuke
(understandable since we get Immolate at 29). Making it useless past
that point--the only reason to cast it is to use it as a AC debuff on
the mob. But for that it's far too expensive for the amount of AC it
drops.
Breath Of Ro is the upgrade to Immolate and it's damage/mana is
actually quite good--on par with Drifting Death. I actually use this
as a dot rather than a debuff.
Verant screwed the pooch on this by not giving druids an intermediate
upgrade to Immolate between 29 and 52.
-- Sang.
Billy Shields
: On Tue, 16 May 2000 22:08:09 GMT, abatt...@netscape.net wrote:
:>> This is often the big problem. They kite too much resulting in a much
:>> lower defense than they should be at.
:>
:>perhaps this is and argument FOR porcupining then? :)
: Perhaps? No it is the ONLY argument for porcupining. Rotting is
At levels less than 40 porcupining can be an *extremely* efficient
method of killing very low blues *if* you have decent defense and
AC equipment. There are zones where the monster will hit you often
but for small amounts.
By high levels this disappears and any method (that works) is
better.
: always more efficient. Kiting is safer. Porcupining's sole purpose
: is to raise your defense skill so at level 40+, you don't fold like a
: cheap lawn chair when something that got some meat behind it's punches
: decide to use you as a punching bag.
:>> Rotting mobs is always more efficient for druids. The time it takes
:>
:>even when you have to renew root because it instabreaks five times in a row?
: Actually, the cut off point is about 5 refreshes. But of course, the
: same thing that makes root resisted can also contribute to resists on
: nukes/dots. So the argument goes both ways. But generally rotting is
: more efficient.
I was playing around with the druid roots on the weekend. I was
trying to use the 39 root (because of the casting time and cost)
on creatures in their mid to high 20s and the results were less
than ordinary--reasonably common resists, instabreaks perhaps
50 of the time and breaks within 30-40 seconds reasonably common.
I may just have to bite the bullet and use the 49 root and see
if I get better results. The problem though is that the damage
is so high that a few casts may in fact kill a green critter
(which I didn't want to do; long story).
Still against mobs in their 20s I would've expected better results
from a level 39 root cast by a level 51 druid.
BTW when these breaks happened I wasn't hurting the critter. I
simply wanted to root it so the breaks were due to resists/duration
not damage (since there was none after the root stuck).
:>> Rotting is the most mana efficient way for a solo druid to kill
:>> things. Therefore, it's the way that results in the least overall
:>> downtime.
:>
:>its extremely mana efficient. it still remains, however, that i see druids
:>nuke-kiting. heh.
: Of course.
: Nuke kiting is safer. At worst, you lose the kill and have to zone.
: With rotting, there is an element of risk--if you get stunned you may
: not be able to get away before your health drops too low to run.
Rooting for druids is a tedious process. I find that its still
better to snare then root rather than directly root if you want
to avoid getting hit (which is half the point after all). And
then instabreaks will have the mob running at full speed (since
it stuck briefly and thus overwrote snare).
:>indeed. i didn't know that druid dots were effective enough to do that, or
:>that the root instabreak was changed that they can do this. i know that is
:>100% true for my shaman.
: When my 49th level root sticks, it sticks hard--usually for 90 seconds
: often for more than 2 minutes (my record is well over 3 minutes).
: Unfortunately, it doesn't stick that readily.
I'm going to play around with the 49 root this weekend and see how
far I get. Hopefully the resulsts will be better than the 39 root.
hughes
> imagine it only does minimal damage. I can get minimal damage via
> InstaBreak if I want. But if you want to add that in, fine. You're
> going to have to look up the numbers though, laugh.
The Breath of rho dot is an incredibly nice new dot to add for druids.
900+ dammage in 45 seconds and while its up it reduces the targets fire
resistance and ac significantly. It stacks with our swarm line and while it
is resisted ( and fizzles a whole lot) more than our magic dot I use and
will continue to use it even after getting 60. Incidently winged death
stacks with both .
On the sad side druid roots where fixed the same way spells where
dropping before yesterdays patch (i,e, not a damn bit at all). Spells now do
drop , cannabalize 3 and gift of xev both dropped for us yesterday in
chardok. I certainly hope they fix our roots soon .
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
>Sang K. Choe <sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> wrote:
>: On Tue, 16 May 2000 22:08:09 GMT, abatt...@netscape.net wrote:
>
>:>> This is often the big problem. They kite too much resulting in a much
>:>> lower defense than they should be at.
>:>
>:>perhaps this is and argument FOR porcupining then? :)
>
>: Perhaps? No it is the ONLY argument for porcupining. Rotting is
>
>At levels less than 40 porcupining can be an *extremely* efficient
>method of killing very low blues *if* you have decent defense and
>AC equipment.
Sorry no.
Even below level 40 rotting is more efficient. Porcupining requires
contribution from nukes or dots, damage shields and heals. By the
time you're done, procupining may be more effective than snare/nuking
(arguable) but no more efficient than rotting.
Check the math on this--unless you can keep the mob from hitting you
on average for less than what your thorns are doing, it won't be more
efficient since you can't do a one to one exchange of hit points
against the mobs. And no blue (and higher) mob I know hits for less
than my thorns at any given level (well, Ping does but he's a
merchant).
>: Actually, the cut off point is about 5 refreshes. But of course, the
>: same thing that makes root resisted can also contribute to resists on
>: nukes/dots. So the argument goes both ways. But generally rotting is
>: more efficient.
>
>I was playing around with the druid roots on the weekend. I was
>trying to use the 39 root (because of the casting time and cost)
>on creatures in their mid to high 20s and the results were less
>than ordinary--reasonably common resists, instabreaks perhaps
>50 of the time and breaks within 30-40 seconds reasonably common.
39 root is the upgrade to the grasping line. If you look at our roots
there's two distinct lines. One that casts in something like 1.8
second and one that casts in around 2.5 seconds (could be a little
less--but it's definately in the 2+ second range).
The former is the Root/Nuke variant of roots--designed primarily to
root something quickly and blast it (repeat ad nausum). This is what
wizards need. The latter is the Root it and Forget it variant. This
is what rotting druids should be using.
>I may just have to bite the bullet and use the 49 root and see
>if I get better results.
49th is the highest level version of the latter (at least until we get
our last and final root sometime next century...). From what I can
tell, the save checks are done every 30 seconds against this root.
That means if it sticks, you have 30 seconds at least--usually much
higher.
>: Of course.
>: Nuke kiting is safer. At worst, you lose the kill and have to zone.
>: With rotting, there is an element of risk--if you get stunned you may
>: not be able to get away before your health drops too low to run.
>
>Rooting for druids is a tedious process. I find that its still
>better to snare then root rather than directly root if you want
>to avoid getting hit (which is half the point after all).
Well, the low blue stuff don't hit me much anymore. :-)
So if they break root and come charging in at me, I know I can stand
there and get a couple of whiffs for me to cast my 49th root.
But one thing I have been doing is once rooted, I sit as far as back
as I can (usually just at the edge of range for my swarm dot--which
puts it at 250 feet). I sit and wait there. If I see the root
breaking message, I just stand up and start casting my root again.
Unless it's resisted, the mob gets planted about 50 feet away from me.
Unfortunately, my breath of ro spell has the same range as my nukes
rather than my dots--meaning if I'm at the edge of my swarm dot range,
I'm beyond the range of my BoR (maybe I should bug this...)
>I'm going to play around with the 49 root this weekend and see how
>far I get. Hopefully the resulsts will be better than the 39 root.
You'll see the same level of instabreaks/resists, but once stuck it
sticks for a long time.
-- Sang.
Roy Anderson
>'power class'. If you're looking long term, Mages/Necromancers
>and possibly ShadowKnights could arguably be way ahead at least
>in terms of soloability/raw power.
>
Gotta throw in my 2 cents. Saw a lvl 54 SK in action the other day.
DAMN.
--Roy
Billy Shields
: wrote:
:>Sang K. Choe <sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> wrote:
:>: On Tue, 16 May 2000 22:08:09 GMT, abatt...@netscape.net wrote:
:>
:>:>> This is often the big problem. They kite too much resulting in a much
:>:>> lower defense than they should be at.
:>:>
:>:>perhaps this is and argument FOR porcupining then? :)
:>
:>: Perhaps? No it is the ONLY argument for porcupining. Rotting is
:>
:>At levels less than 40 porcupining can be an *extremely* efficient
:>method of killing very low blues *if* you have decent defense and
:>AC equipment.
: Sorry no.
: Even below level 40 rotting is more efficient. Porcupining requires
: contribution from nukes or dots, damage shields and heals. By the
: time you're done, procupining may be more effective than snare/nuking
: (arguable) but no more efficient than rotting.
: Check the math on this--unless you can keep the mob from hitting you
: on average for less than what your thorns are doing, it won't be more
: efficient since you can't do a one to one exchange of hit points
: against the mobs. And no blue (and higher) mob I know hits for less
: than my thorns at any given level (well, Ping does but he's a
: merchant).
The math on this is quite clear once you factor in the time and
mana spent rooting (and possibly snaring as well). All you need
to do when porcupining is sit there and get hit (and maybe snare
to stop runners).
Besides theres still at least one feature porcupining has going
for it (compared to rotting)--its quicker. You're delivering
damage from several sources (DoTs, damage shields and maybe
DDs too).
:>: Actually, the cut off point is about 5 refreshes. But of course, the
:>: same thing that makes root resisted can also contribute to resists on
:>: nukes/dots. So the argument goes both ways. But generally rotting is
:>: more efficient.
:>
:>I was playing around with the druid roots on the weekend. I was
:>trying to use the 39 root (because of the casting time and cost)
:>on creatures in their mid to high 20s and the results were less
:>than ordinary--reasonably common resists, instabreaks perhaps
:>50 of the time and breaks within 30-40 seconds reasonably common.
: 39 root is the upgrade to the grasping line. If you look at our roots
: there's two distinct lines. One that casts in something like 1.8
: second and one that casts in around 2.5 seconds (could be a little
: less--but it's definately in the 2+ second range).
Um, I've never noticed a difference (other than damage, casting
time and cost) between any of my root spells. What are you
talking about?
: The former is the Root/Nuke variant of roots--designed primarily to
: root something quickly and blast it (repeat ad nausum). This is what
: wizards need. The latter is the Root it and Forget it variant. This
: is what rotting druids should be using.
:>I may just have to bite the bullet and use the 49 root and see
:>if I get better results.
: 49th is the highest level version of the latter (at least until we get
: our last and final root sometime next century...). From what I can
: tell, the save checks are done every 30 seconds against this root.
: That means if it sticks, you have 30 seconds at least--usually much
: higher.
:>: Of course.
:>: Nuke kiting is safer. At worst, you lose the kill and have to zone.
:>: With rotting, there is an element of risk--if you get stunned you may
:>: not be able to get away before your health drops too low to run.
:>
:>Rooting for druids is a tedious process. I find that its still
:>better to snare then root rather than directly root if you want
:>to avoid getting hit (which is half the point after all).
: Well, the low blue stuff don't hit me much anymore. :-)
Well at 51 the lowest blue (38?) can still pack quite a punch
(and I've got Defense in the 190s).
: So if they break root and come charging in at me, I know I can stand
: there and get a couple of whiffs for me to cast my 49th root.
If you're getting hit the efficiency of the rotting method drops
somewhat doesn't it?
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
>: Check the math on this--unless you can keep the mob from hitting you
>: on average for less than what your thorns are doing, it won't be more
>: efficient since you can't do a one to one exchange of hit points
>: against the mobs. And no blue (and higher) mob I know hits for less
>: than my thorns at any given level (well, Ping does but he's a
>: merchant).
>
>The math on this is quite clear once you factor in the time and
>mana spent rooting (and possibly snaring as well). All you need
>to do when porcupining is sit there and get hit (and maybe snare
>to stop runners).
And heal. Not to mention the fact that while being porcupining, you
are not medding. Whereas while you're dishing out damage rotting,
you're medding most of the time.
>Besides theres still at least one feature porcupining has going
>for it (compared to rotting)--its quicker. You're delivering
>damage from several sources (DoTs, damage shields and maybe
>DDs too).
Think about how easy it is to med while porcupining and you'll see why
the time "spent" procupining may be quickier in terms of kills, but
overall you have more downtime.
>: 39 root is the upgrade to the grasping line. If you look at our roots
>: there's two distinct lines. One that casts in something like 1.8
>: second and one that casts in around 2.5 seconds (could be a little
>: less--but it's definately in the 2+ second range).
>
>Um, I've never noticed a difference (other than damage, casting
>time and cost) between any of my root spells. What are you
>talking about?
There's one line that casts in 1.8 second. Another line that casts in
something like 2.2/2.3 seconds. The first has a resistence check
that's done quite often. The second has resistence checks done less
frequently.
The first line isn't designed to root/park. It's designed to root and
you nuke it (or attempt to stop it from running--which is kinda
silly).
The second line is the root/park variant. As long as you don't touch
the mob, if it sticks it's going to stick for a long time.
Check every root spell we get--you'll notice that the casting times
toggles back and forth every other level.
Wizards have something very similar--it's their root vs. enstill line
of spells.
>: Well, the low blue stuff don't hit me much anymore. :-)
>
>Well at 51 the lowest blue (38?) can still pack quite a punch
>(and I've got Defense in the 190s).
At 52, drolvarg ragers and petrafiers are low blue (they range from 38
to 41--some are green). Even the 41st level one (con even to a 41st
shaman) doesn't touch me much--when it does it's usually for 20 or so.
Easy to channel a 2+ second root through that--even if that root is a
level 49 spell.
>: So if they break root and come charging in at me, I know I can stand
>: there and get a couple of whiffs for me to cast my 49th root.
>
>If you're getting hit the efficiency of the rotting method drops
>somewhat doesn't it?
Not if I'm getting hit for 20 and whiffs most of the time. Against
the ravishing drolvargs (level 44/45), I have to snare and then
root--assuming the first attempt at root doesn't stick (which is
often).
But then against 44/45th level mobs, I'm not about to porcupine it.
-- Sang.
dre
I've seen many use snare combined with their ae spells and at the end,
porcupine technique to level very very quickly.
Case in point, spiroc village in timorous deep. A high lvl druids
dream. The monsters (with the exception of the warrior shamen on the
rocks and the lightbringer) are all warriors. The druid will snare 4
(very important with this technique), and run until a good tight
grouping is formed. Then they will ae them down, and porcupine their
last bit of health. The spirocs hit fairly hard for their lvl, of
course, so no druid would want to porcupine for long.
Efficient way of lvling with low blues, not available to the shaman
until lvl 55 with torrent of poison (a point at which other hunting
areas need to be scouted), and much less romantic than the picture
Alisdair paints of a lone shaman and his wolf going toe to toe with
the toughies.
Soloing in karnor's is a different story playing to strengths a druid
doesn't have. Also, timorous deep, not being itemized, doesn't have
nearly the allure of karnor's.
Since this thread is kind of morphing into a druid vs shaman type of
thing, I just wanted to point out its kind of like comparing apples
and oranges. These two classes have strategies available to them that
are different and that work in different situations.
Billy Shields
: wrote:
:>: Check the math on this--unless you can keep the mob from hitting you
:>: on average for less than what your thorns are doing, it won't be more
:>: efficient since you can't do a one to one exchange of hit points
:>: against the mobs. And no blue (and higher) mob I know hits for less
:>: than my thorns at any given level (well, Ping does but he's a
:>: merchant).
:>
:>The math on this is quite clear once you factor in the time and
:>mana spent rooting (and possibly snaring as well). All you need
:>to do when porcupining is sit there and get hit (and maybe snare
:>to stop runners).
: And heal. Not to mention the fact that while being porcupining, you
: are not medding. Whereas while you're dishing out damage rotting,
: you're medding most of the time.
Hey I know about root parking. Particularly with the resists and
instabreaks on druid roots you can spend a significant portion of
your time between DoT casts just casting root. Once you start
stacking DoTs you spend very little time actually medding.
:>Besides theres still at least one feature porcupining has going
:>for it (compared to rotting)--its quicker. You're delivering
:>damage from several sources (DoTs, damage shields and maybe
:>DDs too).
: Think about how easy it is to med while porcupining and you'll see why
: the time "spent" procupining may be quickier in terms of kills, but
: overall you have more downtime.
Yes but time might be a factor particularly in zones where wanderers
are a problem (eg the Dreadlands). There are some times when I
simply want to kill the target as quickly as possible--thats what
I was getting at.
BTW at 44 I could porcupine things in their mid 30s and need at
most one greater heal thanks to chloroplast.
:>: Well, the low blue stuff don't hit me much anymore. :-)
:>
:>Well at 51 the lowest blue (38?) can still pack quite a punch
:>(and I've got Defense in the 190s).
: At 52, drolvarg ragers and petrafiers are low blue (they range from 38
: to 41--some are green). Even the 41st level one (con even to a 41st
: shaman) doesn't touch me much--when it does it's usually for 20 or so.
: Easy to channel a 2+ second root through that--even if that root is a
: level 49 spell.
The point isn't channelling--the point is that you're taking melee
damage which negates (at least in part) the benefits of rotting
(since thats damage you have to heal just like with porcupining).
:>: So if they break root and come charging in at me, I know I can stand
:>: there and get a couple of whiffs for me to cast my 49th root.
:>
:>If you're getting hit the efficiency of the rotting method drops
:>somewhat doesn't it?
: Not if I'm getting hit for 20 and whiffs most of the time. Against
: the ravishing drolvargs (level 44/45), I have to snare and then
: root--assuming the first attempt at root doesn't stick (which is
: often).
: But then against 44/45th level mobs, I'm not about to porcupine it.
True. The effective limit of porcupining (efficiently( is creatures
level 38-40.
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
>: Think about how easy it is to med while porcupining and you'll see why
>: the time "spent" procupining may be quickier in terms of kills, but
>: overall you have more downtime.
>
>Yes but time might be a factor particularly in zones where wanderers
>are a problem (eg the Dreadlands).
Pull the mob to either side of Karnor Castle. The length of the side
is completely clear of all roaming mobs. I use Burst of Fire to pull,
get them close to the wall, snare, position them and then root.
>: Easy to channel a 2+ second root through that--even if that root is a
>: level 49 spell.
>
>The point isn't channelling--the point is that you're taking melee
>damage which negates (at least in part) the benefits of rotting
>(since thats damage you have to heal just like with porcupining).
Not really. If I can regen that hit point in the time it takes me to
"top off" my mana, it's a freebie. Usually I take no more than 1/2 to
1 bubble of damage. That's easily regennable while I get back a
bubble of mana. Sometimes I don't even bother if I have enough mana
(anything more than 40% is enough to rot a blue
rager/cockatrice)--what's the point? So what if I'm at 80% health if
I know the mob isn't going to do more than 20% to take out?
-- Sang.
Lyion
Mage. Better than soloing for the mage.
1 Cleric + 1 mage + CH/mage buffs = endless supply of dead wurms
pulled nonstop.
-Lyion
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