** DOOM JUMBLE RELEASED **
Yann Nicolas
Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>
> I am proud to announce the first utiltity that randomizes
>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
HOLY SHIT!!! That why this newsgroup was created... Endless Doom... I tried
and I couldn't finish Eipsode 1 Level 1 on UV (can't wait for Nightmare
level ;)... This editor completely renew the interest... I had seven (7!!!)
minotaurs in the first level... ARGH!! With only a pistol and 20 bullets, found
a shotgun and a rocket-launcher, couple of rockets... I open the door, 5
invisible pink things come towards me... Trapped between them and two remaining
minautaurs...
God... And this only level one of the first episode... ... Now let's try
Inferno!!!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-( Yann Nicolas )-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Columbia University Libraries __MMM__ Internet: yn...@columbia.edu
Howard rules!! Allez Rennes!! (o o) Go 49ers!!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=ooO-=-(_)-=-Ooo=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
peter john grivas
net games, since it kind of evens the playing field out. ANYWAYS, if you
use a seed that ends up with TONS of ammo/weapons in the game, post it
here. In order to get a good deathmatch game going, you need to have an
ample supply of weapons to sufficiently DEMOLISH your opponent!
Pete
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter John Grivas - pgr...@engin.umich.edu | CAEN User Services/Hotline
University of Michigan, College of Engineering | USENET-Support, UNIX-Support
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Sabo
posting it here?
Jim
Holger Veit
|>
|> I am proud to announce the first utiltity that randomizes
|> the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
|>
|> site "ftp.uwp.edu" in the directory "/pub/incoming/id" under the
|> filename "jmbl102.zip".
|>
|> Here's how to use it:
[...]
I would like to try this out, but it doesn't seem to be in that
location any longer. Where is it now?
--
Dr. Holger Veit | INTERNET: Holge...@gmd.de
| | / GMD-SET German National Research | Phone: (+49) 2241 14 2448
|__| / Center for Computer Science | Fax: (+49) 2241 14 2342
| | / Schloss Birlinghoven | Had a nightmare yesterday:
| |/ 53754 St. Augustin, Germany | My system started up with
| ... Booting vmunix.el ...
Peter C. Broekhuizen
jmbl102.zip has been moved to
ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/games/id/home-brew/doom/jmbl102.zip
Peter
Russell Ball
: jmbl102.zip has been moved to
: ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/games/id/home-brew/doom/jmbl102.zip
: Peter
Ive still can't get to ftp.ump.edu , is it anywhere else?
Cheers Russ
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
|Russell Ball rb...@mdis.co.uki|
* *
|McDonnell Douglas Information Systems Land +44 (0)71 252 3775|
*26 Qubec Way, Surry Quays Mobile +44 (0)850 280 941*
|London SE16 1LF Pager +44 (0)71 840 7000|
* 0227487*
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* " I wear my Ray-Bans, driving in my car, even on a cloudy day " *
| Level 42 |
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Lennart Regebro
> DOOM JUMBLE from <Empty> Productions has been released on the FTP
>site "ftp.uwp.edu" in the directory "/pub/incoming/id" under the
>filename "jmbl102.zip".
Sound like fun, but unfortunately, its not there any more. Any new ftp sites?
--
Does anybody really listen when I speak,
or will I have to say it all again next week?
..Life is a strange thing.
Just when you think you learned how to use it its gone. /Shakespears Sisters
Stephen P. Potter
: ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/games/id/home-brew/doom/jmbl102.zip
^^^
Ive still can't get to ftp.ump.edu , is it anywhere else?
^^^
Notice a difference?
--
University of Florida, Department of Computer and Information Sciences
email: s...@cis.ufl.edu, Bitnet:Prisoner@ufcc
smail: Stephen P Potter, E309A CSE, UF Campus
Click here to find out about the <a href=http://www.cis.ufl.edu/perl>Perl World Wide Web Page</a>
Snakes of Medusa
>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
> -R : Use registered version.
I see. So you're completely ignoring ID's plea to only make game
editors for the registered version?
How nice of you. When the next ID game comes out and they've
encrypted the data, we'll all know who to thank.
mathew
--
/X-Attribution:/h:j -- just say no to SuperCite GOD IS MY MODERATOR
Will betray country for food
Somebody reset talk.bizarre --assuming nothing read.
dkrowlan
>In article <2gst3j$p...@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
>Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>> I am proud to announce the first utiltity that randomizes
>>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
>[...]
>> -R : Use registered version.
>
>I see. So you're completely ignoring ID's plea to only make game
>editors for the registered version?
>
>How nice of you. When the next ID game comes out and they've
>encrypted the data, we'll all know who to thank.
>
I'm afraid I also have to jump on the bandwagon condemning people for
releasing editors that do things they were specifically asked NOT to do.
That's really shitty. I though we had respect for Id. It seems you
could *easily* restrict the editing capabilities to operate on the
registered datafile *only*. Well, NOMB but I hope you guys get what you
deserve (prosecution).
-=OFF SOAPBOX=-
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
< dkro...@vela.acs.oakland.edu "Find some meat! >
< -today's favorite DOOM quote >
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Michael Wexler
Could someone please show me where it said that ID did not want level
editors for the sw versions?
I thought from my readings of all this that they did not want the new
levels _Distributed with_ the sw version.
I'm not saying you were wrong; I just wanted to see where in the license
agreement this is so I don't screw up with my add-ons!
Thanks,
Michael Wexler
Wex...@gibbs.oit.unc.edu
Ryan J Snodgrass
RELEASED ** by dkro...@vela.acs.oaklan
>>>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
>>I see. So you're completely ignoring ID's plea to only make game
>>editors for the registered version?
>>How nice of you. When the next ID game comes out and they've
>>encrypted the data, we'll all know who to thank.
> I'm afraid I also have to jump on the bandwagon condemning people for
> releasing editors that do things they were specifically asked NOT to do.
> That's really shitty. I though we had respect for Id. It seems you
> could *easily* restrict the editing capabilities to operate on the
> registered datafile *only*. Well, NOMB but I hope you guys get what you
> deserve (prosecution).
I see NOTHING wrong with the program that randomizes the board. This
doesn't make me not want to buy the registered version. It just makes
it a little more fun to play the original levels. However, the DOOM
editor should be ONLY for the registered version and not allow the
shareware version to be edited. They should have built in a function to
allow different maps into the game by loading the appropriate .WAD file
(like another option under load to load new maps). Maybe you can do
that with the -file switch.
Ryan
Zelpheriarderizan Xaviera
>In article <2gst3j$p...@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
>Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>> I am proud to announce the first utiltity that randomizes
>>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
>[...]
>> -R : Use registered version.
>
>I see. So you're completely ignoring ID's plea to only make game
>editors for the registered version?
>
>How nice of you. When the next ID game comes out and they've
>encrypted the data, we'll all know who to thank.
>
Not necessary: for one thing, it's an utility which provide us with
more entertainment, encouraging those who hadn't yet register to think again
and register cuz they might wonder, hmmm... I wonder if that monster at the end
of level 2 will be everywhere in level 2... (hehehe...) I'm sure the map
editor will be only for the registered version. If not, I'll yell at him.
>
>mathew
>--
>/X-Attribution:/h:j -- just say no to SuperCite GOD IS MY MODERATOR
> Will betray country for food
>Somebody reset talk.bizarre --assuming nothing read.
***
This SIG is currently under construction.
Coming features:
More dumb quotes!
Neat Elaboration of my alias!
[This Space For Rent!]
David Reeve Sward
DOOM JUMBLE RELEASED ** by Michael Wex...@gibbs.oit
> editors for the sw versions?
They didn't say this.
> I thought from my readings of all this that they did not want the new
> levels _Distributed with_ the sw version.
Close - they said not to distribute modified levels that "work with the
shareware version".
> I'm not saying you were wrong; I just wanted to see where in the license
> agreement this is so I don't screw up with my add-ons!
Run readme.exe. It's in the first paragraph.
--
David Sward swa...@cmu.edu
GCS: -d+ -p+(---) c++(++++) l+ u+ e+ m+()@ s+/+ n+@ h+ f !g w+@ t+@ r+ y?
Mitch Burton
writing a somewhat more "intelligent" object/monster randomizer..
--
| Mitch Burton | Think of it |
| pel...@netcom.com | as evolution |
| pel...@io.com | in action |
Paul A Hagstrom
> Could someone please show me where it said that ID did not want level
> editors for the sw versions?
>
> I thought from my readings of all this that they did not want the new
> levels _Distributed with_ the sw version.
I don't remember EXACTLY, but it is probably on the "info" screen that shows
you the ordering info for the next episodes, or else it is at the top of the
README.EXE text, because the request was firmly etched in my mind from the
very outset of playing DOOM.
-Paul Hagstrom
hags...@mit.edu
RICHARD LACOSTE
>From: David Reeve Sward <swa...@CMU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: ** DOOM JUMBLE RELEASED **
>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:19:16 -0500
>Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 11-Jan-94 Re: **
>DOOM JUMBLE RELEASED ** by Michael Wex...@gibbs.oit
>> Could someone please show me where it said that ID did not want level
>> editors for the sw versions?
>They didn't say this.
>> I thought from my readings of all this that they did not want the new
>> levels _Distributed with_ the sw version.
>Close - they said not to distribute modified levels that "work with the
>shareware version".
OK we got a moron lawyer here who's analyzing every statement line by line.
It's not the words, but the meaning that matters.
ID *asked*, perfectly within their rights, that only registered versions
shouldbe supported by "home-brew" programs. If you think that means only
half of them, well you can go home to your 286 and play with your wolf-3d
levels all you want, while truly honest people who paid good money for a
*VERY* good game can enjoy the true meaning of shareware.
Joseph W. Vigneau
a randomizer... When it's used, it destroys the natural 'flow' and logic
of the game... I only see it as a toy...
--
jo...@wpi.edu - WPI Computer Science |Linux 0.99.14f:Free 32 bit OS for the i386
Bastard Consultant From Hell
things on levels that aren't required, or needed to complete the
level, not to mention the fact that there are horrendous monsters
given in it that shouldn't be there(can you say 5 minotaurs in one
room at the end of level one on skill level 1 "I'n too young to die"
or something like that)
To me it's a waste of time.
--
"Excuses are like assholes: Everybody's got one."
"Lust is what happens between bodies. Love is what happens between souls."
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you can find a rock."
"Crime Control is a warning shot that misses."
Jeff Goslin - Bubba - Bastard Consultant From Hell - Monument
jggo...@vela.acs.oakland.edu
Robert A. Hayden
serious problems.
1) Too much stuff.
I ran it, and in the first room were six inviso balls, two 100%
health balls, and a box of rockets. Of course, the next room had one of
the boss-monsters (demons?) in it, and I encoutered 14 of them before I
had to quit the game
2) Not enough monsters.
There were lots of goodies, but not many montsters around
3) Pooryly placed random stuff
I was about to finished level 2 (shareware) and there was a pole
right in front of the button. I found some passageways blocked with
torches and crap. This is a serious bug. Also, too many keys lying around.
---
Efforts need to be made so that it makes sure that it distributes
monsters and items in proportion, and IGNORES things like torches and
poles and keys, and also ignored the boss monsters.
I like seeing random powerups and monsters, but the really important ones
shoudl be ignored by the randomizer (like the bosses, keys, and superballs).
Please fix :-)
--
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hay...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> To flame me, log on to ICBMnet and
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> target 44 09' 49" N x 93 59' 57" W
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Michael H Price II
you jumping all over this guy? The sound editor works on the shareware version
but I don't see anyone getting all over him. And both of these programs are
in the home-brew directory on Id's site ftp.uwp.edu.
Why don't you all get a life and just have fun playing the game.
Mike.
dkrowlan (dkro...@vela.acs.oakland.edu) wrote:
dkrowlan
>I really don't see the big deal in this. It's not a editor, it's basically
>a randomizer... When it's used, it destroys the natural 'flow' and logic
>of the game... I only see it as a toy...
You'll have to go back and read the original post, then. It's not a
simple randomizer folks are commenting on, it included a reference
to JADE = level editor, soon to be released, that is (may be?)
violating the "please don't muck with the (sw) WAD file" request.
>
>
>--
>jo...@wpi.edu - WPI Computer Science |Linux 0.99.14f:Free 32 bit OS for the i386
David Reeve Sward
Hey I do without the insults.
> It's not the words, but the meaning that matters.
I agree. Someone else started nitpicking the words, not me.
> ID *asked*, perfectly within their rights, that only registered versions
> shouldbe supported by "home-brew" programs.
Yep.
> If you think that means only
> half of them,
Huh?
> well you can go home to your 286 and play with your wolf-3d
> levels all you want, while truly honest people who paid good money for a
> *VERY* good game can enjoy the true meaning of shareware.
Calm down. I pre-ordered Doom. It arrived a few days after Christmas.
Peter Tjornsted
>>Close - they said not to distribute modified levels that "work with the
>>shareware version".
>OK we got a moron lawyer here who's analyzing every statement line by line.
>It's not the words, but the meaning that matters.
>ID *asked*, perfectly within their rights, that only registered versions
>shouldbe supported by "home-brew" programs. If you think that means only
>half of them, well you can go home to your 286 and play with your wolf-3d
>levels all you want, while truly honest people who paid good money for a
>*VERY* good game can enjoy the true meaning of shareware.
The "moron lawyer" is perfectly right. and look who's playing lawyer too:
within their rights??? what rights.
The rest of the message is garbage. Get lost shithead.
Mvh Peter alias th...@diku.dk
CHARLES P. GREIG
I seriously hope this utility isn't TOTALLY random!! Like.. I hope the KEYS
are NOT randomly placed.. (Imagine the red key right behind the red door where
you can't get it!!)
William R Keel
>This program, while adding life to a repidly-becoming-dull game, has some
>serious problems.
>1) Too much stuff.
>2) Not enough monsters.
>3) Pooryly placed random stuff
> I was about to finished level 2 (shareware) and there was a pole
>right in front of the button. I found some passageways blocked with
>torches and crap. This is a serious bug. Also, too many keys lying around.
Haven't you heard that beggars can't be choosers. Live with it or write
your own. I like battling the big badasses in the first room.
Here's a tip if there's something in your way or if you can't get to a
key. Save your game, exit and run the jumble program again. Restart
doom and die (kill yourself). You will start out at the beginning
of the level with everything "jumbled". It's no biggie if you lost
your rocket launcher - there's probably 3 or 4 around the corner :-)
I like this program.
Reed
Richard Ward
>In article <2guso2$b...@bigboote.WPI.EDU> jo...@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Joseph W. Vigneau) writes:
>>I really don't see the big deal in this. It's not a editor, it's basically
>>a randomizer... When it's used, it destroys the natural 'flow' and logic
>>of the game... I only see it as a toy...
>
>You'll have to go back and read the original post, then. It's not a
>simple randomizer folks are commenting on, it included a reference
>to JADE = level editor, soon to be released, that is (may be?)
>violating the "please don't muck with the (sw) WAD file" request.
>
>< dkro...@vela.acs.oakland.edu "Find some meat! >
>< -today's favorite DOOM quote >
> \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Here's a question for you. As some have stated, you supposedly can use the
0.99 version of DOOM.EXE instead of the EXE file that comes with the Reg.
Version (I can't prove this personaly, as my copy has yet to arrive). This
tells me that DOOM.EXE (any version you like) can read the WAD files of any
version. The question is: _HOW_ do the programmers garauntee (sp?) that their
map/sound/graphics editors can work ONLY with the Reg. Version and NOT the SW?
This also brings up the point of how these additions/changes are shipped. Do
you send your entire WAD file when you make a new map? Are people going to
create .MAP files that are compiled into the WAD files? Are the different
editors going to create compatable MAP files, or are we going to have to have
a copy of whatever editor someone used in order to place new maps in our WAD
files?
These are all issues that have to be addressed.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The box...you opened it. We came. It's a means to summon us - Cenobites. |
| Explorers in the further regions of experience. Demons to some, angels to |
| others. ... No tears please. It's a waste of good suffering." - Pinhead |
| rrw...@netcom.com |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
dkrowlan
>Here's a question for you. As some have stated, you supposedly can use the
>0.99 version of DOOM.EXE instead of the EXE file that comes with the Reg.
>Version (I can't prove this personaly, as my copy has yet to arrive). This
>tells me that DOOM.EXE (any version you like) can read the WAD files of any
>version. The question is: _HOW_ do the programmers garauntee (sp?) that their
>map/sound/graphics editors can work ONLY with the Reg. Version and NOT the SW?
>
>This also brings up the point of how these additions/changes are shipped. Do
>you send your entire WAD file when you make a new map? Are people going to
>create .MAP files that are compiled into the WAD files? Are the different
>editors going to create compatable MAP files, or are we going to have to have
>a copy of whatever editor someone used in order to place new maps in our WAD
>files?
>
>These are all issues that have to be addressed.
>
Good points. The editors will have to work on the WAD files, where all
the data resides. But those *are* big files, aren't they? The old W3D
editors changed the data files, and you did have to distribute the new
.Wl? files when you created your own levels/characters. Ugh.
--
Leo Lim
>
> This is a RANDOMIZER! Not a MAP REMAKER. If you don't like where
>and what the stuff is, use a different random seed.
>--
> Soon to be released software: | Hank Leukart
>Apogee: R A P T O R : Call of the Shadows | (ap...@cleveland.freenet.edu)
>Epic: E P I C B A S E B A L L | "Official" DOOM FAQ Writer
>id: D O O M : Hell on Earth | Available by E-mail or FTP.UWP.EDU
Speaking of random seed, what are the "good" seed numbers?
Seems to me that the randomizer randomizes things from the current doom.wad
rather than from its internal variables.
so to be consistent, one has to randomize from the original wad file.
let's compile good seed numbers. anyone?
i vote for "0". (at least, most switchs at the end are accessible.)
Matt Ownby
: As far as I'm concerned this thing is a total waste of time. It puts
: things on levels that aren't required, or needed to complete the
: level, not to mention the fact that there are horrendous monsters
: given in it that shouldn't be there(can you say 5 minotaurs in one
: room at the end of level one on skill level 1 "I'n too young to die"
: or something like that)
: To me it's a waste of time.
So is playing DOOM on "I'm too young to die." <grin>
I think it's refresing to finalyl see some utilities out for DOOM.. maybe
the people madea mistake by not carefully considering what they were
doing, but at least it's SOMETHING...
ethan brodsky
>In article <2gst3j$p...@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
>Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>>
>> I am proud to announce the first utiltity that randomizes
>>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
>
>HOLY SHIT!!! That why this newsgroup was created... Endless Doom... I tried
>and I couldn't finish Eipsode 1 Level 1 on UV (can't wait for Nightmare
>level ;)... This editor completely renew the interest... I had seven (7!!!)
>minotaurs in the first level... ARGH!! With only a pistol and 20 bullets, found
>a shotgun and a rocket-launcher, couple of rockets... I open the door, 5
>invisible pink things come towards me... Trapped between them and two remaining
>minautaurs...
Where can I find it? I must of missed the original posting. It is sort of
hard to read every posting when there are over 150 a day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real programmers program with: COPY CON PROGNAME.EXE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone wants fade or Sound Blaster Pascal code, E-MAIL me
William Ferrell
>Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>> I am proud to announce the first utiltity that randomizes
>>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
>[...]
>> -R : Use registered version.
>
>I see. So you're completely ignoring ID's plea to only make game
>editors for the registered version?
>
>How nice of you. When the next ID game comes out and they've
>encrypted the data, we'll all know who to thank.
If you would be kind enough to read your README file again you'll find ID asks
people to not _distribute_ modified versions of DOOM. It says nothing about
editors or changing your own personal version.
_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/
_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
William Ferrell
They DID NOT! They asked that people do not _distribute_ games that _work_
with the _shareware_ version of the game! Note the emphasis on those words
there... you can distribute anything that works with the registered version,
just not the shareware version.
BTW, somebody write a program to make DOOM more enjoyable and everybody
decides "let's have a flame war to make sure this poor guy _never_ writes
another DOOM add-on!"
Sure, why not?!?! Why don't we flame the author of the sound altering program
and the map viewer as well?!?!?!
Please, get over this crap and enjoy the programs that are released to enhance
an already great game.
Seth Delackner
: > Could someone please show me where it said that ID did not want level
: > editors for the sw versions?
: >
: > I thought from my readings of all this that they did not want the new
: > levels _Distributed with_ the sw version.
: I don't remember EXACTLY, but it is probably on the "info" screen that shows
: you the ordering info for the next episodes, or else it is at the top of the
: README.EXE text, because the request was firmly etched in my mind from the
: very outset of playing DOOM.
If its not in there, how about the posts (and E-mail) from ID stating
they don't want SW ver. editors.
Erik Bunn
>: To me it's a waste of time.
>So is playing DOOM on "I'm too young to die." <grin>
So is playing DOOM, period. Not that I don't love it, though. It's
just that its main feature is the ability to greet your friends with a
healthy chainsaw revving, and this jumbler is perfect for, and meant
to, make deathmatches a bit more.. umm.. interesting =). At least for
munchkins.
Anyway this is just a randomizer, not a level editor or a new game.
Did anyone bother to ask ID if they had anything against it before
flaming the author(s)? At least that way the more offending flamers
wouldn't seem _so_ ridicilous..
--
Erik Bunn // DiscworldRingworldCerebusSandmanC&HBrazilWandaXpilotRaceDrivin'
Suicide was against the law. Johnny had wondered why. It meant that if you
missed, or the gas ran out, or the rope broke, you could get locked up in
prison to show you that life was really very jolly and thoroughly worth
living.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Johnny and the dead)
Scott Coleman
>In article <2gu6so$p...@news.mantis.co.uk> mat...@mantis.co.uk (Snakes of Medusa) writes:
>>In article <2gst3j$p...@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
>>Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>>> I am proud to announce the first utiltity that randomizes
>>>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
>>[...]
>>> -R : Use registered version.
>>
>>I see. So you're completely ignoring ID's plea to only make game
>>editors for the registered version?
>>
>>How nice of you. When the next ID game comes out and they've
>>encrypted the data, we'll all know who to thank.
>If you would be kind enough to read your README file again you'll find ID asks
>people to not _distribute_ modified versions of DOOM. It says nothing about
>editors or changing your own personal version.
I'm sorry, but you've missed some important information. The README file
is not the only place you need to be looking.
Read the license statement carefully. It clearly states that you may not
modify the levels or produce derivative works. Thus, if I write some code
and play around with levels I modified but don't distribute the modified
WAD file, technically I am in violation of their license.
Realistically, however, ID would have trouble enforcing this (hell, they
wouldn't even KNOW about it). My guess is they really wouldn't care,
especially since they already have my money for the registered version. So
while it may not matter in practice, in the strictest sense any of these
homebrew hack tools are a no-no. As you note, distributing the modified
levels would be a BIG no-no.
--
dkrowlan
>In article <EBU.94Ja...@alpha.hut.fi> e...@snakemail.hut.fi (Erik Bunn) writes:
>>
>>
>>Anyway this is just a randomizer, not a level editor or a new game.
>>Did anyone bother to ask ID if they had anything against it before
>>flaming the author(s)? At least that way the more offending flamers
>>wouldn't seem _so_ ridicilous..
>>
>
>as a teaser to get people to plunk down $40 bucks and buy the full version.
>
>The shareware version, IMHO, "limited" in its "playability" (ie. after you
>play it once or twice, why go back??)
>
>If you create anything (eg. editor, randomizer, scenario builder) that
>increases the playability of the shareware version, less people will
>plunk down the $40 for the registered version.
>
True! And thank you. This is the EXACT reason (and only reason)
that I wonder whether ANY editing of the shareware version may be
inappropriate...
I'm glad somebody finally spelled it out, for those who didn't see the
point. It reduces one of the motivations for buying the full-blown
version when people can continue to play the shareware version without
growing bored with it.
Anyway the only opinion that matters is Id's! (well maybe their
lawyers.. :) )
For the record, it hasn't been (at least nothing *I've* seen) the folks
who stated an objection to level editing that have been rude/offensive,
as was earlier stated by another poster, it has been a few hostile
children who flamed those people for simply stating their opinions on
the matter who have been unnecessarily rude in responding. Sad, but
typical...
>Think o
f the shareware as a playable demo.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>wrsa...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil |"Something's wrong with this world
>America On Line: tro...@aol.com | when clowns got lawyers, too."
>Bill Sauerwald, BSAE/ME U of MD |
>Aberdeen Proving Ground, Edgewood MD | Too Much Joy
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
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< dkro...@vela.acs.oak >
< this space intentionally left blank... >
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Zachary M. Loafman
CHARLES P. GREIG <cs93...@ariel.cs.yorku.ca> wrote:
>
>I seriously hope this utility isn't TOTALLY random!! Like.. I hope the KEYS
>are NOT randomly placed.. (Imagine the red key right behind the red door where
>you can't get it!!)
>
>
Actually, it could do just that, but I bet there is a very slim chance of
not having another red key somewhere. I really wish it would keep the
keys, and other important things, the same. I also experienced one weird,
possible bug: I was playing on Episode 1 Level 2 and I actually got pushed
through a wall, and had to turn clipping off to get back. Apparently,
after I ran Jumble, that wall no longer existed. (And no, no clipping was
off when I got pushed through (Or should it be, clippiing was on?))
...Zach
Yann Nicolas
>possible bug: I was playing on Episode 1 Level 2 and I actually got pushed
>through a wall, and had to turn clipping off to get back. Apparently,
>after I ran Jumble, that wall no longer existed. (And no, no clipping was
>off when I got pushed through (Or should it be, clippiing was on?))
>
>...Zach
Same thing here... On my computer and a friends'... No clipping was off too...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-( Yann Nicolas )-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Columbia University Libraries __MMM__ Internet: yn...@columbia.edu
Howard rules!! Allez Rennes!! (o o) Go 49ers!! Go Giants!!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=ooO-=-(_)-=-Ooo=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
William R. Sauerwald <wrsauerw>
>Did anyone bother to ask ID if they had anything against it before
>flaming the author(s)? At least that way the more offending flamers
>wouldn't seem _so_ ridicilous..
>
Lets look at this from ID's point of view. You release a shareware version
as a teaser to get people to plunk down $40 bucks and buy the full version.
The shareware version, IMHO, "limited" in its "playability" (ie. after you
play it once or twice, why go back??)
If you create anything (eg. editor, randomizer, scenario builder) that
increases the playability of the shareware version, less people will
plunk down the $40 for the registered version.
Think of the shareware as a playable demo.
chuck
: In article <2gst3j$p...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hank Leukart) writes:
: > DOOM JUMBLE from <Empty> Productions has been released on the FTP
: >site "ftp.uwp.edu" in the directory "/pub/incoming/id" under the
: >filename "jmbl102.zip".
: Sound like fun, but unfortunately, its not there any more. Any new ftp sites?
: --
: Does anybody really listen when I speak,
: or will I have to say it all again next week?
: ..Life is a strange thing.
: Just when you think you learned how to use it its gone. /Shakespears Sisters
hi all
There seems to be soom confusion here. The good folks over at uwp
have moved it out of the incomming dir to /pub/games/id/hoem-brew/doom.
Look for it there one and all. I know its there because I just
downloaded it....
ch...@smartstar.com
Stoney
: Here's a question for you. As some have stated, you supposedly can use the
: Version (I can't prove this personaly, as my copy has yet to arrive). This
: tells me that DOOM.EXE (any version you like) can read the WAD files of any
: version. The question is: _HOW_ do the programmers garauntee (sp?) that their
: map/sound/graphics editors can work ONLY with the Reg. Version and NOT the SW?
I would assume that in whatever editor, there would be a line of code "if
DOOM.WAD or DOOM1.WAD = (size of shareware WAD file) then print "Buy the
registered DOOM to use this" and exit".
Paul Burriesci
version and discovered that when he's playing with a jumbled WAD
file, the teleporters do not work. Oddly enough, he can use the
command line switch which resets the WAD file to it's default
state (-D I think?) the teleporters work again, so nothing
permanent is getting screwed up, it's just that the teleporters
never work for him in a jumbled game. Anybody else experience this?
Paul Burriesci
bored of my .sig
William Lachance
You're missing the point. Sure, maybe you can't actually EDIT the
shareware .wad. But with the current state of affairs, you can sure as
hell PLAY the modified maps, as well as get all the new features that the
registered version supplies. Hopefully Id will release a patch to correct
this, but I'm not sure...I don't think ANY ftp sites would take kindly to
having a 5mb zip being posted, especially not in bulk, and ESPECIALLY
given its very limited use.
--
*-----------*---------------------------*-----------------------*
| William R | E-mail: | O O Have a day |
| Lachance | ad...@FreeNet.carleton.ca | ---- |
*-----------*---------------------------*-----------------------*
Spencer K. Olson
Umm, which 'new features' only in the registered versions are you talking
about? Fighting about 5 Barons or more on one level? Well, sure, you can
do that... but there are no transporters, or weapons above 5, or the other
two or three types of monsters, so don't everyone get their knickers in a bind
over this little program...
Spencer "Sheesh.." Olson
ols...@elof.iit.edu
Bastard Consultant From Hell
: Bastard Consultant From Hell (jggo...@vela.acs.oakland.edu) wrote:
: : To me it's a waste of time.
: So is playing DOOM on "I'm too young to die." <grin>
While I realize you're kidding <grin> I tried it on Ultra violence and
there was no difference in the two.
: I think it's refresing to finalyl see some utilities out for DOOM.. maybe
: the people madea mistake by not carefully considering what they were
: doing, but at least it's SOMETHING...
Sometimes nothing is better than something.
--
"Excuses are like assholes: Everybody's got one."
"Lust is what happens between bodies. Love is what happens between souls."
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you can find a rock."
"Crime Control is a warning shot that misses."
Jeff Goslin - Bubba - Bastard Consultant From Hell - Monument
jggo...@vela.acs.oakland.edu
Iikka Paavolainen
William R. Sauerwald <wrsauerw> <wrsauerw> wrote:
>If you create anything (eg. editor, randomizer, scenario builder) that
>increases the playability of the shareware version, less people will
>plunk down the $40 for the registered version.
If they remove the -R switch from the jumble and make it work on registered
versions only, I don't doubt that somebody will crack the jumbler to make
it work on the shareware version also (it has been done).
--
__/|_ , ,--------------------------------------------------------------,
/o \/:--| Iikka Paavolainen / iik...@mits.mdata.fi, in Espoo, Finland |
\__~__/\:--| "I won't have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent." |
` ` `--------------------------------------------------------------'
Iikka Paavolainen
Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
> This is a RANDOMIZER! Not a MAP REMAKER. If you don't like where
>and what the stuff is, use a different random seed.
I don't think it would be a big deal to make the jumbler not touch torches et
al, and only add the 'addable' stuff.
Bill Neisius
:
: : Here's a question for you. As some have stated, you supposedly can use the
hmm... so all you'd need to do is make your shareware WAD look like the
registered WAD and you could use the editor: rename the file and pad
the size should do the trick.
This brings up another question: Is it permissible to patch the
editor for the registered WAD so that it works with the shareware WAD?
dkrowlan
I would think this would be an obvious no-no, wouldn't you? I mean, a
patch of a program that "follows the rules" so that it does what they
asked folks not to? What's the diff between doing this and just going
ahead and writing one that directly works on the shareware WAD? They'd
be equally 'naughty'.
????
--
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< dkro...@vela.acs.oakland.edu >
<-- .. -. -.. -.-- --- ..- .-. --- .-- -. -... ..- ... .. -. . ... ...!>
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Janos A Haide
>Stoney (kgif...@access.netaxs.com) wrote:
>:
>:
>registered WAD and you could use the editor: rename the file and pad
>the size should do the trick.
>
pointers. Also, it has resources unique to the registered version.
No way one can create a registered-looking .wad file out of the
shareware one. (And if so, then you wouldn't need Jumble anyway)
Janos
Karl Hribernik
: things on levels that aren't required, or needed to complete the
: level, not to mention the fact that there are horrendous monsters
: given in it that shouldn't be there(can you say 5 minotaurs in one
: room at the end of level one on skill level 1 "I'n too young to die"
: or something like that)
: To me it's a waste of time.
If you don't like it, don't use it. I'm sure the guy who wrote it put
in a lot of time & work and deserves more than this.
Constructive criticism is ok, and will probably give the writer some
inspiration for better versions of his randomizer. But don't slag him
off.
PS.: I would be really happy to have more tough monsters all over the
place.... was beginning to get worried if life would be worth
living after completing DOOM
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| EMail : f0...@zfn.uni-bremen.de IRC : Maldoror |
| mald...@lehre.informatik.uni-bremen.de |
| |
| GCS GMU GO -d+ -p+ c++++ l u++ e* m* s/- n- h* f+ !g w++++ t+ r+ y++ |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Ed Haymore
| PS.: I would be really happy to have more tough monsters all over the
| place.... was beginning to get worried if life would be worth
| living after completing DOOM
Me, too... I _like_ having 4-5 barons per level; sure makes life
exciting (and shorter :)) .
--
Ed Haymore | Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side
e...@byu.edu | and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
Todd Palino
>In article mat...@mantis.co.uk (Snakes of Medusa) writes:
>>In article Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>>> I am proud to announce the first utiltity that randomizes
>>>the placement of items and enemies in DOOM!
>>[...]
>>> -R : Use registered version.
>>
>>I see. So you're completely ignoring ID's plea to only make game
>>editors for the registered version?
>>
>>How nice of you. When the next ID game comes out and they've
>>encrypted the data, we'll all know who to thank.
>>
>
>releasing editors that do things they were specifically asked NOT to do.
>That's really shitty. I though we had respect for Id. It seems you
>could *easily* restrict the editing capabilities to operate on the
>registered datafile *only*. Well, NOMB but I hope you guys get what you
>deserve (prosecution).
Blah.... I don't think that JUMBLE can be considered a game "editor" in the
full sense of the word... all it does is randomize the elements. It doesn't
allow the user to do anything *specific*. And if you want to argue that it
allows the user to enjoy the shareware version so much that they won't buy
the registered version, consider the fact that you could do the same thing
with a net game. I know we have hours of fun here playing the same levels
over and over in Netplay/Deathmatch.
-Signe
***************************************************************************
* Todd Palino - si...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu * "An it harms none, *
* * do what thou wilt." *
* "I don't represent anyone, not even myself." ***************************
************************************************* *
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