The Problem With Norns
catherine lundeen
I've been playing C2 for a while now but I don't get far without becoming
frustrated. I don't usually get more than 3 generations before just wiping
them out in a fit of rage. Constant attention, constant behavior problems,
never ending winning! It almost seems impossible to like this game. But I
do. I only wish I could solve one minor problem. My Norns are all insane!!!
I'm no good at scientific obnosis, or CAOS, or hexing, but here's what I
think's wrong with them: Mainly, the older they get the less ability they
have to differentiate between words. This aberration leads to inability to
differentiate between concepts, which leads to inability to make
good decisions. By using Reward Tracker I noticed the more decisions they
had to make the more chances of making the wrong decision came up.
Accumulating these bad decisions leads to more decisions that so-and-so is
"bad" for them. And such-and-such is also bad. Eventually all
actions become bad accept coincidentally and really quite randomly the
decisions that lead to death. The Norns end up starving themselves to death
or drowning while it is obvious to us that the cheese is only a few inches
away! Duh! Or that they suffocate underwater. Duh again!
One could just earase most of the words in their vocabulary. That's why I
think C1 Norns seem smarter than C2 Norns: because they have less words to
deal with. But this would also limit the potential of the Creatures game.
If one could just give them psychotherapy to make them rethink the past
mistakes they made that led to punishment or pain then they would be able to
make new decisions instead of being stuck on old ones. This is what I think
is happening to them. They avoid the pain of making decisions because they
have associated pain to almost everything in their environment.
At first I tried to solve the problem by injecting more food, pufferfish,
electric gates, weed removers, fountains, toys; hoping that somehow if there
is enough food available they will eat, or enough toys they will play
instead of complaining. But unfortunately this I believe contributes to
more problems. More stimulation=more bad decisions=less pro-survival
actions=death. I think the Norns actually see that death is the eventual
conclusion to all of this and therefore they continue to avoid
survival.(Actually if it was represented it would simply look like: more
stimulation=death. And so they start saying "Doe-doe stop hand." "Stupid
stop lift" "Sh#* for brains stop toy" All they concentrate on is stoping
the information from coming in on them so hard. Creating a bigger concept
lobe like in Nova Subterria, doesn't solve the problem of too much negative
stimulation.) Because they sort of get hopeless about it all. The more
complicated Norn genomes people create the more complicated the conclusions
become.
An example of this theory that anyone can try is use more spanking and see
how fast the Norn learns that all decisions are bad. However using less or
no spanking doesn't solve the problem because other things create pain and
punishment and reinforcement of these. If someone could invent a program
that listed decisions(stored in the memories of the concept lobe) made by
the norn on each word, that showed if it concluded it to be bad or good then
was able to press a button to reverse the false conclusions, then we could
literally de- aberrate the Norns selected. They would make correct actions
because it's decisions have been corrected. It would be able to rationalize
that eating is good because it lowers hunger, and
sleeping is good because it lowers sleepiness, and jumping off cliffs into
the ocean is bad because it increases suffocation. The ideal Norn would be
able to make correct decisions based on previous experiences
not just instincts. This is one of the things that make us a higher life
form than the apes.
I've got no clue as to how to create this program but if someone was
willing to try please let me know because I would love to use whatever
programs can do this. Heck! use my Norns as guinea pigs.
I don't think this problem can be solved by better genomes or more cobs or
better parenting. If you think I'm wrong and have been able to produce Norns
that don't need to be watched all the time(Basically perfect for wolfling
runs) please let me know where I can get them and how can I produce the same
results.
John Carroll
> One could just earase most of the words in their vocabulary. That's why I
>think C1 Norns seem smarter than C2 Norns: because they have less words to
>deal with.
>
You want to know my opinion; too bad I'll tell it anyway. You hit the nail
on the head; but not because of a large vocabulary, but because of having to
deal with too many genuses that have the same effect. In C1, creatures had
only 2 genuses that decreased hunger (other than vendor, which was never
really used except in the original carrot vendor, to alleviate hunger
directly). They only had one genus that taught words. Hence they didn't have
to make a decision over which genus they would use. In C2 they have critter,
bug, food, fruit, root, and the odd plant and badbug. This muddies their
concepts. eg: "Ok so hunger is decreased by eating fruit; but I just ate a
critter and it decreased hunger, but I was just hungry, ate a critter, and
it didn't relieve hunger, or was it root I was supposed to eat. I'll just go
walk off the dock; nothing else seems to relieve hunger." By keeping genuses
that have the same general effect to a minimum the creature is able to
clearly learn that this one concept does indeed reduce hunger consistently.
IMO there should be a genus for each drive ++ and --, but I'd also expand
the ability for creatures to cache previous occurances.
Nornlove
Having a little trouble? Creatures 2 was supposed to be harder. Hmmm......
Visit my web page! http://members.aol.com/Nornlove/index.html
ICQ: 33018340
Nikon Sevast
that the process of making mistakes does not contribute to the reinforcement
or encouragement of good decisions. This is a slight restatement of what
you said, but I'd like to build on the idea a bit, because I'm not sure that
the problem really has to do with words (although I think you've made an
excellent point).
If what you said about RewardTracker is true, the obvious conclusion would
be that there are substantially more possible decisions with bad outcomes
than ones with good outcomes. It's as if the norn has a landscape of
positive (hills) and negative (valleys) experiences, and this landscape
basically becomes flatter and flatter over time. The norn, however, is not
"paralyzed" by this state of affairs. Its drives keep it moving about like
a puppet, though there are no clear "good" choices to make. Hopefully I'm
still on track with what you're trying to say.
What this says to me is that a norn is - except for its drives - essentially
a passive creature. Its drives make it move, and it finds itself in
situations. It "remembers" these situations and their effects, and picks
the strongest one. It does not compute causal chains ("I did this which
made that happen, which made something else happen, which turned out to be
good"). It does not associate cause and effect over a long (more than a
couple seconds) timeframe (In other words, I don't think the jumping gets
associated with the suffocation, though I'll have to check that). Most
importantly, it does not direct its own attention. As far as I can tell, a
norn's attention lobe is directed to the thing that makes "the most fuss"
(as CL says in the brain diagram).
Okay, now that I've done with the phenomenology, here's the psychotherapy.
I think norns would be better off if they actively sought to pay attention
to things that produced good results in the past. This is quite distinct
from a "need for pleasure" drive, since: A) not all "good" results are
necessarily high in pleasure (arguable); and B) drives have no influence
that I can see on attention.
So the solution would be to make norns more "active" in their attentions,
and to have them use their memories (the "rethinking" you mentioned) and
their drives ("I'd rather look at cheese because I'm hungry") to influence
attention. The reason I focus so much on attention is that I think that it
reduces the number of decisions that need to be considered while also vastly
slowing the "flattening" of the good/bad decision landscape.
Well that was a speedy doozer of a post. Maybe I should get to testing the
idea... Thanks for the thought-provoking post.
David
catherine lundeen wrote in message
<7eh1rj$kjr$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>The Problem With Norns is... You Can't Give Them Psychotherapy.
>
KMWilber
them out in a fit of rage. Constant attention, constant behavior problems,
never ending winning! It almost seems impossible to like this game. But I
do. I only wish I could solve one minor problem. My Norns are all insane!!!"
Have you updated your Norns with the improvements from the creatures2 website?
Have you tried improved Norns created by others, such as Canny Norns?
I've had many successful runs with both of the above. I had a feral run of
Canny Norns that hit 32 generations before the world crashed, still full of
healthy norns. I've had standard Norns run in semi-feral mode (observe and
occasionally interfere for 30 -60 minutes a day, let run 10 -12 hours overnight
or while at work between times) thrive for many generations, again, until the
world became unstable and crashed for one reason or another.
Tips: Improve the world with some 3rd party COBS (my favorites are Ocean
Bridges and Tasty Mushroom Patches: those two save a lot of Norns), and don't
pamper the dumb ones - let them die and leave the smart ones to propagate; they
are much less frustrating. Save copies of your best surviving Norns and import
them into subsequent worlds to improve the population.
Nikon Sevast
correctly, it is the basic reasoning behind the Nova Subterra and Canny Norn
Search lobe complexes.
Also, the "long term association" idea is dealt with (in different ways) in
the Nova Subterra Change/Afterdrive lobes and the Canny Norn Echo lobe.
The thing I'm interested to try is to allow a bit of processing to go on
before getting the Concept lobe involved, thus hopefully keeping the
"landscape" more ragged.
David
Nikon Sevast wrote in message <7ehdk3$7rr$1...@camel0.mindspring.com>...
DonnaMason
Now there is a novel idea.
>frustrated. I don't usually get more than 3 generations before just wiping
>them out in a fit of rage.
Gene Splicer time..... If you Gene Splice them you will get to move up a
generation and every generation you get under your belt helps tword better
norns. I really believe this is true.
>Constant attention, constant behavior problems, never ending winning! It
almost seems impossible to like this game. But I
>do. I only wish I could solve one minor problem. My Norns are all insane!!!
Have you ever seen how insane little kids get when they didn't get there nap?
Try putting them to sleep. I bore them to sleep. With "look plant" or "look
fruit" about a zillion times. Infact that is about all I ever say to them.
Well I do say "look lift" and "look mover" when pointing to those objects.
> I'm no good at scientific obnosis, or CAOS, or hexing, but here's what I
>think's wrong with them: Mainly, the older they get the less ability they
>have to differentiate between words.
So why bother with all the words. The old saying "Keep it simple stupid" works
well here, and I wasn't calling anybody stupid. So be cool. I have happy
healthy sleeping, eating and breeding norns.
>This aberration leads to inability to
>differentiate between concepts, which leads to inability to make good
decisions. By using Reward Tracker I noticed the more decisions they had to
make the more chances of making the wrong decision came up.<
Now here I have to agree with kmwi...@aol.com (KMWilber) who said. "Tasty
Mushroom Patches and don't pamper the dumb ones - let them die and leave the
smart ones to propagate; they are much less frustrating. Save copies of your
best surviving Norns and import them into subsequent worlds to improve the
population."
You are on the right track you just took the wrong train. So try Sleep Therapy
instead of Psychotherapy and you can cut down on the vocabulary. The best
decicion makers are the ones you need to mate. That is my two cents. Hope it
is helpfull. Donna
Donna...@aol.com
Breeder of Origional Egg norns
C2 Sleeping Nornzzz
C2 Breeding Norns
C2 Eating Norns
Believe it or not!!
http://members.aol.com/Nornlove/index.html
email Norn...@aol.com
for her C1 Norns and my C2 Norns
CrAzY WaTeR!
hundred times and they'll be a seathing pile of Psycho.
--
me llamo loca agua!!!
I have 2 words for you!!! noooo...not suck it...MMM BEEFY!!!,
ICQ # is 16573642 Message me!
Crazy Water/Rick!
catherine lundeen <cat...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<7eh1rj$kjr$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> The Problem With Norns is... You Can't Give Them Psychotherapy.
>
> I've been playing C2 for a while now but I don't get far without
becoming
> frustrated. I don't usually get more than 3 generations before just
wiping
> them out in a fit of rage. Constant attention, constant behavior
problems,
> never ending winning! It almost seems impossible to like this game. But I
> do. I only wish I could solve one minor problem. My Norns are all
insane!!!
> I'm no good at scientific obnosis, or CAOS, or hexing, but here's what I
> think's wrong with them: Mainly, the older they get the less ability they
> have to differentiate between words. This aberration leads to inability
to
> differentiate between concepts, which leads to inability to make
> good decisions. By using Reward Tracker I noticed the more decisions they
> had to make the more chances of making the wrong decision came up.
> Accumulating these bad decisions leads to more decisions that so-and-so
is
> "bad" for them. And such-and-such is also bad. Eventually all
> actions become bad accept coincidentally and really quite randomly the
> decisions that lead to death. The Norns end up starving themselves to
death
> or drowning while it is obvious to us that the cheese is only a few
inches
> away! Duh! Or that they suffocate underwater. Duh again!
> One could just earase most of the words in their vocabulary. That's why
I
> think C1 Norns seem smarter than C2 Norns: because they have less words
to
Martha Brummett
wrote:
>walk off the dock; nothing else seems to relieve hunger." By keeping genuses
>that have the same general effect to a minimum the creature is able to
>clearly learn that this one concept does indeed reduce hunger consistently.
>IMO there should be a genus for each drive ++ and --, but I'd also expand
>the ability for creatures to cache previous occurances.
Absolutely! CL totally screwed the categories in C2. As you say,
there should be a one-to-one correlation between drives and objects
that reduce them.
Failing that, I have stated before that COb-makers should use
consistent effects for different objects, and have reasonable amounts
of drive-reducer in them.
For Terra Nornia, Sandra Linkletter added items to the category list,
which solved some of the parallel C1 problems. With C2, a new world
with redefined categories could do this, even allocating items to each
drive.
Martha Brummett (C2 species range 39001-39100)
Piratical Maid-of-All-Work, P.B. Jolly Weeble
mailto:mo...@diac.com
Bonadrey Nornery
http://www.diac.com/~mokus/bonadrey.html
TraxDJ
news:19990408012238...@ng146.aol.com...
<snip snip>
>.......don't
> pamper the dumb ones - let them die and leave the smart ones to
propagate; they
> are much less frustrating.
That is a sentence I just have to agree with! <evil grin>
I just have to put that in my sig. ;o)
--
~~~~~~~
TraxDJ
~~~~~~~
ICQ# 25330792
C2 Cob Script Ranges 33,300 - 33,399
Spamblocked = Remove AOHell and replace with aol
"...don't pamper the dumb ones - let them die and leave the smart ones
to propagate; they are much less frustrating." ~ KMWilber
Lummox JR
>
> > One could just earase most of the words in their vocabulary. That's why I
> >think C1 Norns seem smarter than C2 Norns: because they have less words to
> >deal with.
> >
>
> on the head; but not because of a large vocabulary, but because of having to
> deal with too many genuses that have the same effect. In C1, creatures had
> only 2 genuses that decreased hunger (other than vendor, which was never
> really used except in the original carrot vendor, to alleviate hunger
> directly). They only had one genus that taught words. Hence they didn't have
> to make a decision over which genus they would use. In C2 they have critter,
> bug, food, fruit, root, and the odd plant and badbug. This muddies their
> concepts. eg: "Ok so hunger is decreased by eating fruit; but I just ate a
> critter and it decreased hunger, but I was just hungry, ate a critter, and
> it didn't relieve hunger, or was it root I was supposed to eat. I'll just go
> that have the same general effect to a minimum the creature is able to
> clearly learn that this one concept does indeed reduce hunger consistently.
> IMO there should be a genus for each drive ++ and --, but I'd also expand
> the ability for creatures to cache previous occurances.
I think you're absolutely right there. Norns don't need "food", "plant",
*and* "fruit", though "food" and "plant" alone would suffice. The latter
tends to have more medicinal value, vs. the former having more
nutritional. Fruit, however, tends to be *just* like food. Moreover, in
C2, some "plant" objects can't be picked up and eaten, while others can;
it confuses the crap out of the Norns.
It also makes sense to have musical instruments separate from the "toy"
category, as their type of stimulus is different.
Ideally, I think Norns would best learn by being able to distinguish
between sub-types as well as genuses. But sadly, this would make things
too complicated and thus was never done. (The brain needed to do this
would be enormous.) Probably some much better learning could be
accomplished via adding some more built-in stimuli--for example, "IT has
a small sprite", "IT is not activated", "IT has .... setting" (ONTR,
INTR, GRAV, ACCG, and so on...), "IT can be picked up", etc. Then, at
least, a Norn could perhaps tell a big blue plant from the little green
one, or the mobile plant from the stationary.
Going by this system, a Norn could notice "IT is a toy" and "IT can be
picked up", and thus distinguish that sort of toy from one that doesn't
move.
Lummox JR
catherine lundeen
I didn't think that making a Norn think more rationally would be so hard. I
thought that in the Official Guide it said that Norns eventually learn to
make better decisions based on it's own experiance. It'd take me awhile but
I'd be able to find it in there eventually if you want the quote. But,
rational decisions don't really happen very easily. That's what led me to
look at how Norns judged actions as good or bad with Reward Tracker. And if
Norns make the decision that eating is bad for it; then no wonder they won't
eat.
I've now tried Canny Norns and am much more pleased with thier behavior.
Also I have accepted the unfortunate conclusion that Norns have to be
reminded of what certain words mean. Sometimes they forget thier own name
even! This is also in the Official C2 Guide. By reminding them what eat
means or what thier name is or what sleep means the idea of this being a
good decision beguins to happen again. I now just use Encyclopedia Nornica
again when they refuse to do certain actions and it has helped to a small
degree with a bit of hard work. But, I think it would be easier to just go
into the concept lobe and change the decisions they make.
Not teaching them words only garantees more problems because they just use a
bibble word in place of "intensely" or "very" or whatever I don't teach
them.
Thanks to all those for the advice that's been given. It's helped and given
more reasons to keep triing.
Lummox JR <Lumm...@aol.com> wrote in message news:370D2B...@aol.com...
Horosco
cat...@earthlink.net says...
Just as a warning, so that you will know, I don't have C2. That's just
so you will know that what I say here may be completely wrong. :) But I
think it should prove to be correct.
You mentioned that they consider making decisions as being bad because
they always make the wrong decision, and get punished for it. You also
mentioned that eventually, all of their decisions that they consider are
bad ones. Question is, have they ever made a good decision? Those
*should* rise to the top, unless something went wrong with the AI model.
If they aren't making good decisions on their own, then tell them what to
do. When they do something right, then reward them. Rewarding when they
are good will be better for them in the long run than punishing them when
they are bad.
xOtix
Lummox JR wrote in message <370D2B...@aol.com>...
>
>Ideally, I think Norns would best learn by being able to
distinguish
>between sub-types as well as genuses. But sadly, this would
make things
>too complicated and thus was never done. (The brain needed to
do this
>would be enormous.) Probably some much better learning could be
>accomplished via adding some more built-in stimuli--for
example, "IT has
>a small sprite", "IT is not activated", "IT has .... setting"
(ONTR,
>INTR, GRAV, ACCG, and so on...), "IT can be picked up", etc.
Then, at
>least, a Norn could perhaps tell a big blue plant from the
little green
>one, or the mobile plant from the stationary.
>Going by this system, a Norn could notice "IT is a toy" and "IT
can be
>picked up", and thus distinguish that sort of toy from one that
doesn't
>move.
Can this be done ? Either by modifying the genomes we have now
(sorry for the uninformed questions), or by modifying the world
the way Martha pointed out in another post in this thread?
~ Jann
catherine lundeen
Horosco <Hor...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.11776ebdf...@news.compuserve.com...
I don't normally punishthem to any great extent, just a "no" or one quick
slap. On C2 you can moniter the chemical reactions of reward and punishment
to see how much of a chemical increase your actions can do. I do reward them
which is indicated on the graphs the computer displays. Though there's two
aproches. 1) Only let them get the reward that comes with eating food/or the
punishment of being hungry. Or 2) Tickle them when they eat, and slap them
when they don't when you say "eat". I haven't noticed any particular
difference in either method. They both get similar results given enough
time.
catherine lundeen
CrAzY WaTeR! <iwanna...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:01be81ca$3eedc7a0$1d2bfad1@default...
> You can give them Psychotherapy!!! Slap them and then tickle them a few
> hundred times and they'll be a seathing pile of Psycho.
> --
electric shock treatment cob too if we really wanted a "seathing pile of
Psycho" But I'm after a few gerations of Norns that are healthy, thanks.
xOtix
catherine lundeen wrote in message
Catherine, the consensus here is that tickling C2 norns for
eating swamps them with reward and that this can get associated
with decisions other than "eating is good". Have you read
Denise's Eating and sleeping FAQ? (I can't remember if you said
you did-sorry)
~ Jann
xOtix
KMWilber wrote in message ...
>"I don't usually get more than 3 generations before just wiping
>them out in a fit of rage. Constant attention, constant
behavior problems,
>never ending winning! It almost seems impossible to like this
game. But I
>do. I only wish I could solve one minor problem. My Norns are
all insane!!!"
>
creatures2 website?
>Have you tried improved Norns created by others, such as Canny
Norns?
>
>I've had many successful runs with both of the above. I had a
feral run of
>Canny Norns that hit 32 generations before the world crashed,
still full of
>healthy norns. I've had standard Norns run in semi-feral mode
(observe and
>occasionally interfere for 30 -60 minutes a day, let run 10 -12
hours overnight
>or while at work between times) thrive for many generations,
again, until the
>world became unstable and crashed for one reason or another.
>
>Tips: Improve the world with some 3rd party COBS (my favorites
are Ocean
>Bridges and Tasty Mushroom Patches: those two save a lot of
>pamper the dumb ones - let them die and leave the smart ones to
propagate; they
Norns and import
>them into subsequent worlds to improve the population.
>
>
Did you notice any specific emergent behaviours over such a huge
number of generations? Or are norns as the genome is now,
capable of emergent behaviours?
Jann/O.kra.dOh
catherine lundeen
xOtix <spam...@this.pla.ce> wrote in message
news:92368470...@news.remarQ.com...
something on that in The Norn Underground site. Lately my eating problems
are stupid things like when the norn wants to eat a toy or when she calls a
piece of food toy. I recently found the solution is to use Encyclopedia
Nornica and re-teach the words that the norn seems to misunderstand. then I
say food and it looks at food or I say toy and it looks at toy, and when
she's hungry she looks for food and says" eat food." Although I have to
re-teach every 15 minutes. This norn is still a child.
xOtix
catherine lundeen wrote in message ...
>The Problem With Norns is... You Can't Give Them Psychotherapy.
>
> I've been playing C2 for a while now but I don't get far
without becoming
just wiping
>them out in a fit of rage. Constant attention, constant
behavior problems,
>never ending winning! It almost seems impossible to like this
game.
<snipped most interesting and thought provoking post>
I'll tell you one thing(since you ask<g>): My guts twisted into
a knot when I read the above! I know just how you feel. (I
exported mine, and later deleted them -and I didn't wait for the
third generation either!)
But later I got this really nice setup. Starting with Lis' and
Chris' Canny norns which I fixed to be amphibious ('twas before
Jay's bridges), I added Zap's fixes for the tomato and nut
plants, and Martha's NoSayNeed COB. I was amazed at the
difference. No more cringing and whining, no more starving in
the midst of plenty. I could leave the computer running and
work on something else at the same time. I felt my shoulders
begin to drop out of my ears... It was wonderful!
then I sent them all into the long sleep that is not death, and
emptied the Egg folder, and put the Nova Subterra eggs in. Then
I updated the exe from the CL website. Having read LJR's essays
and tips about the NST norns, I felt reasonably confident of
having a good experience with them. It was not to be.
Something went very wrong.
I hatched 12 NSTs and taught them all at once from EN, so they
would hear each others voices a lot. As soon as they hit
breeding age, though they dispersed. Then the old SayneedALot,
cringing, and starving to death happened. This time I exported a
couple then I just let them starve. I have three offspring from
that group, and I had to bully them into it. Even the
Flugelhorn Mist could not convince them to kisspop-- even when
they were fertile. <shrugs> I almost broke my finger after
typing "push norn" and hitting the Ctrl+s keys so many times.
Too much hard work!! And the pitiful sounds! It reminded me of
those traumatic first weeks when C2 hit the stores.. :`P
So I've started a NewAlbia from the updated Eden.sfc that I'm
copying to a number of different names. I'll put the Nova
Subterra offspring in one, and start another to try out Slink
and Caro's C307s. And the Cannys will go into a third.
I've put all the Albian script updates in and I'll see what
happens. <shrugs>
~ jann/O-kra-dOh
< <<Artist>> >
~ Creatures Community Advocate >>>
ERFNB! ERFEBPMBE!
**X-AGC FAQs Archivist/Creator of
>> xOtix's "Jus' Gimme All Th' FAQs" <<
--Creatures(1), Creatures2, The Creatures Community
http://www.jannart.on.ca/allcfaqs.htm
**Moved to ALBIA2000-- http://www.welcome.to/creatures.newbies/
Host to Carolyn Horn's "Slink's Specials"
http://www.jannart.on.ca/caro/carotoc.htm
Creator of The Albian Fruit Basket COB <for C2>
http://www.jannart.on.ca/basket.htm
(with a lot of help from JayD!)
Species Range reserved: 17000 - 17099.
xOtix
catherine lundeen wrote in message
>
>xOtix <spam...@this.pla.ce> wrote in message
>news:92368470...@news.remarQ.com...
>>
>>
>> Catherine, the consensus here is that tickling C2 norns for
>> eating swamps them with reward and that this can get
associated
>> with decisions other than "eating is good". Have you read
>> Denise's Eating and sleeping FAQ? (I can't remember if you
said
>> you did-sorry)
>>
>> ~ Jann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I can agree with the general concensus here actually on that. I
read
>something on that in The Norn Underground site. Lately my
eating problems
>are stupid things like when the norn wants to eat a toy or when
she calls a
>piece of food toy. I recently found the solution is to use
Encyclopedia
>Nornica and re-teach the words that the norn seems to
misunderstand. then I
>say food and it looks at food or I say toy and it looks at toy,
and when
>she's hungry she looks for food and says" eat food." Although I
have to
>re-teach every 15 minutes. This norn is still a child.
Ahhh. That's a good idea. I love EN! For some reason I'm able
to run tow or three of the volumes at a time. It's so funny to
watch them all crowd around and yell out the words! Too bad we
can only have one set in the world at a time. The Nova Subterra
norns were not supposed to have that problem, but who can guess
at the resulting mysteries of digital DNA...
Jann
Jody Ruttan
TheMissing
KMWilber
crashed,
"Did you notice any specific emergent behaviours over such a huge
number of generations? Or are norns as the genome is now,
capable of emergent behaviours?"
I didn't notice any brand new behaviors. But this run had some particularly
good (and some particularly strange) traits. The good: several lines of Norns
who emerged from the egg smiling, crunched down the first food they encountered
without hesitation, and slept readily even when surrounded by a noisy crowd of
Norns. Interesting defects: lines of Norns who were born adult (or nearest
thing to: they passed through each stage in less than a second); Norns who laid
eggs a few seconds after becoming pregnant; and a combination of the two:
emerge, kiss-pop, and lay egg in 90 seconds. By the 32nd generation I had a
bi-polar distribution of Norns who would live to a ripe old age (7 - 10 hours),
and those who would live 3 to 5 hours, but live well and breed well in the
meantime.
xOtix
PawPrints3 wrote in message
<19990409211232...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
>>I added Zap's fixes for the tomato and nut
>>plants, and Martha's NoSayNeed COB. I was amazed at the
>>difference.
>
wondering...
>~*~*~*~*~
http://www.diac.com/~mokus/bonadrey.html
BTW, Welcome to Insanity!!!
This is xOtix signing off for the night.. Time to turn things
over to the night shift, the Ausies and the Brits Nite all!
Jann
PawPrints3
>plants, and Martha's NoSayNeed COB. I was amazed at the
>difference.
Can you tell me where to get the NoSayNeed COB? I'm just wondering...
~*~*~*~*~
^_~ NiLaHo! ~_^
"Reality Leaves a Lot to the Imagination"-John Lennon
I AM A BURNT FUR!
PawPr...@aol.com
or...
Dwago...@yahoo.com