Camp 140 (DOS) rtfr results (ks, kd, ps)
Eric 'Thud' Spottke
Camp 140 DOS Full Realism. Only 67 pilots recorded in this
record. Thank you moggy and EB.
Kills/Sortie Kills/Death Points/Sortie
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Winki ::IAF:: 1.84 Damned LS 10.1 Winki ::IAF:: 2823
Damned SB 1.70 Damned JD 8.67 Damned SB 2304
TK <<<7SDB>>>> 1.66 Fool <Mark VI> 6.00 Fool <Mark VI> 2262
Fatal <666th> 1.55 Winki ::IAF:: 5.83 Damned JD 2043
Sturmer <CAFR> 1.55 Damned SB 4.25 Damned LS 1919
Fool <Mark VI> 1.50 SOUP <CAF> 3.91 Aerobat ::IAF:: 1872
Aerobat ::IAF:: 1.46 Aerobat ::IAF:: 2.91 Fatal <666th> 1562
Slider<CAF> 1.40 Fatal <666th> 2.65 Vink-man (BOS) 1387
Merchant **4thF 1.30 Vink-man (BOS) 2.64 TK <<<7SDB>>>> 1364
Damned JD 1.30 Slider<CAF> 2.50 SOUP <CAF> 1271
Zylo Beddo 1.29 TK <<<7SDB>>>> 2.27 @==)--RAPIER--- 1264
Vink-man (BOS) 1.25 <FS> Blaster 2.14 Slider<CAF> 1207
WarPig 1.15 Wheelin <4thFG> 2.08 Sturmer <CAFR> 1136
DOOMER (BOS) 1.14 Sturmer <CAFR> 2.06 Winki ::IAF:: 1041
Damned LS 1.13 Damned Chick 1.93 Damned Chick 1029
SOUP <CAF> 1.13 Popeye ++4thFG+ 1.93 Argos -Dmd Shmu 1014
Zy De Ho 1.13 Argos -Dmd Shmu 1.91 DOOMER (BOS) 1004
Winki ::IAF:: 1.11 @==)--RAPIER--- 1.90 Wheelin <4thFG> 997
Damned Chick 1.09 Merchant **4thF 1.79 Rookie <CAF> 964
Silk ::IAF:: 1.08 Rookie <CAF> 1.78 Merchant **4thF 922
@==)--RAPIER--- 1.07 Rocketman <666t 1.74 FokkerFT 792
The Lorax <4thF 1.05 DOOMER (BOS) 1.73 Damned Eggie 791
FokkerFT 1.05 Damned Eggie 1.71 HAWKeye<CAF> 790
Rocketman <666t 1.05 Silk ::IAF:: 1.69 Silk ::IAF:: 768
Rookie <CAF> 1.00 Winki ::IAF:: 1.68 Damned Dano {AC 767
Wheelin <4thFG> 0.99 Slider<CAF> 1.59 The Lorax <4thF 762
Damned Dano {AC 0.99 Damned Dano {AC 1.59 Slammer 759
Argos -Dmd Shmu 0.98 HAWKeye<CAF> 1.47 <FS> Blaster 756
HAWKeye<CAF> 0.95 Damned Uhgly <A 1.46 Popeye ++4thFG+ 734
O==]--VAPER--- 0.94 O==]--VAPER--- 1.45 Rocketman <666t 720
Damned Eggie 0.89 The Lorax <4thF 1.41 O==]--VAPER--- 690
Submission (DT) 0.88 Slammer 1.41 c==)--HeBee---- 686
c==)--HeBee---- 0.87 Zylo Beddo 1.37 Damned Eight Ba 664
Slider<CAF> 0.87 FokkerFT 1.32 Damned Uhgly <A 647
Raz <CAF> 0.81 Mute <4thFG> 1.25 Bison <CO 335th 619
HardRock *AD*(D 0.81 c==)--HeBee---- 1.24 Slider<CAF> 600
Damned Eight Ba 0.79 Boozer +4thFG+ 1.23 Hunter <<4thFG> 597
Popeye ++4thFG+ 0.77 Gorilla<<<7SDB> 1.21 Boozer +4thFG+ 596
Slammer 0.76 Zy De Ho 1.21 Mute <4thFG> 559
New User 0.75 WarPig 1.19 Raz <CAF> 535
Boozer +4thFG+ 0.73 Raz <CAF> 1.16 New User 533
Hunter <<4thFG> 0.72 Bison <CO 335th 1.16 --)--ICE-- 516
Bison <CO 335th 0.70 YORK<<<7SDB>>>> 1.05 Gorilla<<<7SDB> 470
AirShark (BOS) 0.70 Damned Eight Ba 1.05 Damned Doc 465
<FS> Blaster 0.69 Boozer +4thFG+ 1.04 Enforcer<XO 335 462
Damned Uhgly <A 0.66 Hunter <<4thFG> 1.03 Boozer +4thFG+ 423
Damned Doc 0.63 Damned SM <CAG> 1.00 HAZmatt======> 420
Gorilla<<<7SDB> 0.63 AirShark (BOS) 0.95 YORK<<<7SDB>>>> 405
Boozer +4thFG+ 0.60 Submission (DT) 0.94 SandMan -=AD=- 403
--)--ICE-- 0.60 Smokin Joe -=GR 0.91 Smokin Joe -=GR 387
Mute <4thFG> 0.59 Naughtious Maxi 0.91 Spiker -<509th> 383
Enforcer<XO 335 0.57 --)--ICE-- 0.90 Archer: )-----> 368
Hollywood<Expre 0.56 Damned Doc 0.88 AirShark (BOS) 362
Pirate //BK\\ 0.56 HardRock *AD*(D 0.88 Damned SM <CAG> 358
REB <<CAF>>: 0.55 New User 0.86 Zylo Beddo 339
Archer: )-----> 0.55 REB <<CAF>>: 0.84 Hollywood<Expre 337
Smokin Joe -=GR 0.54 HAZmatt======> 0.82 Pirate //BK\\ 331
Damned SM <CAG> 0.47 Enforcer<XO 335 0.81 Zy De Ho 325
SandMan -=AD=- 0.47 REB <CAF>: 0.74 WarPig 305
Spiker -<509th> 0.46 Spiker -<509th> 0.74 REB <<CAF>>: 270
REB <CAF>: 0.46 Hollywood<Expre 0.70 REB <CAF>: 255
YORK<<<7SDB>>>> 0.43 SandMan -=AD=- 0.68 Submission (DT) 252
Grizzly 0.41 Archer: )-----> 0.67 Naughtious Maxi 249
HAZmatt======> 0.38 Pirate //BK\\ 0.66 HardRock *AD*(D 218
Naughtious Maxi 0.37 SCUZZY 0.64 SCUZZY 208
Stalker <CAF> 0.36 Grizzly 0.47 Stalker <CAF> 205
SCUZZY 0.31 Stalker <CAF> 0.44 Grizzly 198
--
Eric Spottke
-)--Thud----3577
Rufino J
In article <4rjehv$4...@tribune.concentric.net>, espo...@cris.com (Eric
'Thud' Spottke) writes:
>Kills/Sortie Kills/Death Points/Sortie
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Winki ::IAF:: 1.84 Damned LS 10.1 Winki ::IAF:: 2823
>Damned SB 1.70 Damned JD 8.67 Damned SB 2304
>TK <<<7SDB>>>> 1.66 Fool <Mark VI> 6.00 Fool <Mark VI> 2262
>Fatal <666th> 1.55 Winki ::IAF:: 5.83 Damned JD 2043
>Sturmer <CAFR> 1.55 Damned SB 4.25 Damned LS 1919
>Fool <Mark VI> 1.50 SOUP <CAF> 3.91 Aerobat ::IAF:: 1872
>Aerobat ::IAF:: 1.46 Aerobat ::IAF:: 2.91 Fatal <666th> 1562
>Slider<CAF> 1.40 Fatal <666th> 2.65 Vink-man (BOS) 1387
... Ooops, I posted something similar too this in a another thread. Sorry
to be redundant
Winki
Eric 'Thud' Spottke
ruf...@aol.com (Rufino J) wrote:
>... Ooops, I posted something similar too this in a another thread. Sorry
>to be redundant
Not a problem here! In fact it is nice to have 2 ways to look at the
score stuff. It is neat to look at Winki's "Kesmai winner: Detail" and
then EB's format (No relation to Kesmai winner).
I think you have the best of both worlds when looking at both.
--
Eric Spottke
-)--Thud----3577
Vinkman
Thud thanks for posting the scores. It must be a lot of work but it is
appreciated by us guys that can't fly 80 hrs a month and thus have no
chance to ever win a Camp.
I was talking to some of the other BOS guys and we thought a metric
that takes into account k/s k/d p/s as well as total points could be
combined into some kind of rating (think up a name). Currently score
winner may be the person that spends the most time on line, while the
ratio winners may be the person that spends the least. If the ratios and
scores were simply multiplied, then the persons with good ratios AND good
scores would come out on top.
What do ya think?
"Vinkman"
EyeBLS
In article <4rujes$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, vin...@aol.com (Vinkman)
writes:
> I was talking to some of the other BOS guys and we thought a metric
>that takes into account k/s k/d p/s as well as total points could be
>combined into some kind of rating (think up a name).
this has been done on Genie for years. various formulae envolving k/d,
k/s, p/s, have been proposed. one time i fired up a statistics program
and did a correlation analysis of 20 different scoring schemes. An scheme
envolving total points always correlated best with total sorties flown.
points/sortie seemed to correlate well with all the other 'good' schemes
and it is my favorite measure of a pilot.
But of course, if the pilot's goal is to never land, always go deep into
enemy territory and take on superior numbers til dead, no scoring system
will reflect his abilities.
Eyeballs
doran
eye...@aol.com (EyeBLS) wrote:
>In article <4rujes$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, vin...@aol.com (Vinkman)
>writes:
>>
>
>But of course, if the pilot's goal is to never land, always go deep into
>enemy territory and take on superior numbers til dead, no scoring system
>will reflect his abilities.
>Eyeballs
Boy, you sure nailed my style (or lack thereof) The other nite was
typical. After shooting down two planes in a furball (real good for
me) I checked out my F6, 1/4 load of ammo, runnin' on fumes and this
gawd awfull smoke pouring out the back. I can see a friendly field in
the mirror but when I look forward..... three enemy dots. Oh well, I
know I'm helping somebody's score and it does save on all that
tiresome landing stuff
Doran
1165 Lazrus
Vinkman
For sure you are right. The best pilot in my opinion will always be the
one who will win the 1 v 1 every time. To that end can anyone beat Subbie
or HR or WP or even ZY,more than half the time. Yet they seldom win the
camps. However, many of us check the scores of those we've killed and who
have killed us, in order to get a sense of the capability of the opponent.
A combination metric would save doin all the math we do in our heads
anyway when we look at someones score.
Also the rank is a way of determining where we are on the bell curve of
pilots for a given camp. it answers the question of whether you
represented a significant presents in the virtual skies or just another
face in the crowd. I would also agree that the current scoring system
would be perfect if we all spent the same amount of time in the air.
However higher rankings can be "bought" by simply putting in more hours.
The proposed system would still incourage plenty of flight time, it would
just more heavily reward quality flight time.
I'm just an engineer, so I'm always searching for the better metric,
it's my job. Maybe as you said there is no best or even better metric,
but we all fly AW for the same reason...the human competition.
Competetive types like us will always be looking for different and better
ways to compare ourselves to each other. The current scoring system just
leaves me a little unsatisfied. Maybe because I suck!... but hey...I'm out
there...and I, like all of us, am looking for a little satisfaction.
Thanks, have fun, and happy hunting.
fis...@worldnet.att.net
eye...@aol.com (EyeBLS) wrote:
>But of course, if the pilot's goal is to never land, always go deep into
>enemy territory and take on superior numbers til dead, no scoring system
>will reflect his abilities.
>Eyeballs
Damn EB...you talkin about me again? <g>
One thing about flying with the AOL dweebs.....I had to remember how
to LAND again ...herhe
]
Jay Fisher fis...@worldnet.att.net
Shaky Stick Shaky AOL JayF...@aol.com
-=*TH*=- 3278 GEnie J.Fis...@genie.geis.com
*********************************
*Happiness is a one-pass kill!*
*********************************
Gray Eagle
> To that end can anyone beat Subbie
Yes.
-Gray Eagle
(film at BeBop's house of a 1-1 zeek fest,
HR dies 3 quick ones in a row..
..kilt subby when she made me mad enuff, and her wingman,
twice, in the same spit mission,
..an they both better than Zy or WP.
JackG0504
In article <4rvoco$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, eye...@aol.com (EyeBLS)
writes:
>But of course, if the pilot's goal is to never land, always go deep into
>enemy territory and take on superior numbers til dead, no scoring system
>will reflect his abilities.
>
>
YESYESYEYSYESYESYES!
That's what I wuz trying to say.
"No socring system could adequately reflect my unique abilities."
nyuk nyuk nyuk
Thank you, sir.
Slug *TH*
JackG0504
BTW, all you loud-talkign dudes...
The Slug was shot down exactly *no* times last camp!
Not one freaking pilot was able to shoot my butt down the entire camp!
How many of you festering dweeb-holes can say the same, eh?
Slug *TH*
EyeBLS
In article <4s55qf$k...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jack...@aol.com
(JackG0504) writes:
>The Slug was shot down exactly *no* times last camp!
>
>Not one freaking pilot was able to shoot my butt down the entire camp!
>
>How many of you festering dweeb-holes can say the same, eh?
>
>
Come on slug, you didn't fly last camp!
Eb
<G>
Darren Beyer
> To that end can anyone beat Subbie
> or HR or WP or even ZY..
I make Subbie mad 'cause she's competitive as hell and can't beat me 1v1 :)
HR and I had a nice set of duels a few months back where we dueled in every
plane. He squashed me a zeke and I pancaked my P47, the rest went my way. When
I fought GE in a P51 he beat me more than I him, I beat Zy in an F4 and he
nailed me in others (these were no-spin duels). The bottom line is that who
will win is dependent on plane type and other factors. When I'm tired or in a
slump I lose more than when I'm fresh and cranking. So what was the question?
:)
Thomas Hastings
Vinkman (vin...@aol.com) wrote:
<snip>
: A combination metric would save doin all the math we do in our heads
: anyway when we look at someones score.
Vinkman, I'm not an engineer: what is a "combination metric". (Sounds
like a German safe to me).
Bummer
Vinkman
Bummer,
A metric is simply a measure of some type. In the case of Airwarrior
the score is measure of how good a campaign a pilot had. Thud has
published an additional list of different ways to look at a person's score
in an attempt to better determine what type of pilot the individual is.
These "ways" are metrics. A combination metric is simply a new metric
which combines other metrics.
The NFL now uses "Quarterback Rating" which is a combination of total
passing yards, completion percentage, number of interceptions thrown,
touchdown passes, etc...to give a more complete picture of how good a
quarter back is...even if he is on a team that through many few passes
than another.
Hope that helps.
Happy Hunting
Vinkman(BOS) 4905
JackG0504
In article <4s608m$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, eye...@aol.com (EyeBLS)
writes:
>Come on slug, you didn't fly last camp!
Didn't say I did, old friend. You have just added confirmation to my
original statement! None of you girly-men can shoot down the Slug!
Slug *TH*
Gray Eagle
>None of you girly-men can shoot down the Slug!
I would, but .. I dont wanna.
da Slug dood is my hero.
He saved alla Scav posts.
For that I will let you live. :)
-Gray Eagle
(unless, of course, your on AOL, in B land, over B85, on a weekend
night.. ..then it's hard .. hard to let a bzz live. Real hard.)
-grin-
Doc Den
Gray Eagle wrote:
>
>
> For that I will let you live. :)
>
> -Gray Eagle
> (unless, of course, your on AOL, in B land, over B85, on a weekend
> night.. ..then it's hard .. hard to let a bzz live. Real hard.)
>
> -grin-
Heheh....unless, of course, your Doc Den and know GE is preying on
hapless Bz.....then it's hard....hard to let GE get away with it
scot-free. REal hard ;-)
-Doc Den (of the TH)
Eric 'Thud' Spottke
vin...@aol.com (Vinkman) wrote:
<snip>
>Thud has
>published an additional list of different ways to look at a person's score
>in an attempt to better determine what type of pilot the individual is.
>These "ways" are metrics. A combination metric is simply a new metric
>which combines other metrics.
Thud has done nothing but copy what Eyeballs came up with and moggy
has the grace to upload to the network hehe.
I take credit for nothing. I am only a cheap knock-off (plus I got an
extra 2 hrs every 3 weeks)
--
Eric Spottke
-)--Thud----3577
Doc Den
Gray Eagle wrote:
> 'Look, a C-land Mustang!' (the only one in five sectors)
> xxx shot down
> xxx shot down
> xxx shot down
>
> 'That's gotta be Gray Eagle.'
>
> xxx shot down
>
> 'He's having way too much fun down there.'
>
Heheh! Right you are Sir!
I have to admit, however, I do like to sit back an' watch a Master at
work.....for a while at least, before diving in!
Hey GE.....aren't you worried that, with all that time in Zip-Realisim,
that your Real ACM skills (and kills) are gonna suffer?
-Doc Den
Thomas Hastings
Gray Eagle (Dam...@AOL.com) wrote:
: >
: Yassir, I am predictable, a cardinal sin in Air Combat.
: 'Look, a C-land Mustang!' (the only one in five sectors)
: xxx shot down
: xxx shot down
: xxx shot down
: 'That's gotta be Gray Eagle.'
: xxx shot down
: 'He's having way too much fun down there.'
: xxx shot down
: 'I think I'll go hammer him.'
: xxx shot down
: xxx shot down
: DamGE shot down
: 'nice shootin, Doc. Ya scum.'
: '-g-'
: -Gray Eagle
No chance you would do anything that non-devious, GE. :
GE: Sorry to run, but my poor little Mustang is out of gas and ammo and
the oil pressure is dropping fast.
Bummer: <waits 2 min> How come it's still pulling away from me, and I'm
doing 330?
GE: I was in a dive before you got close enough to notice. I'll be lucky
to get back to 84. <sniff>
Bummer: <ah, good, finally closing on him>
Bummer: <Damn!, that no-oil, shot-up 'stang just went straight up!>
<jerks stick, blacks out>
3791 shot down
Bummer: (on radio): Wow, GE, You must have got me with the last manuever
that plane had in it!!! (I'm a little slow, you see)
GE: Sure did. Guess I'll go over to 88 and shoot up some A's. <Oil
pressure seems to have stabilized and she's flying smoother now.>
<lg> Bummer
Gray Eagle
>
> GE: Sorry to run, but my poor little Mustang is out of gas and ammo and
> the oil pressure is dropping fast.
It's never a good idea to chase someone who is headin back to base.
They're usually light. (low fuel, low ammo)
They have literally nothin to lose (well, I always feel that way, hehe)
..and they are usually comin in
under countrymen above them,
that you don't see until it's WAY to late :)
-Gray Eagle
(remembers chasin Stiletto to certain death, many times)
fis...@worldnet.att.net
Gray Eagle <Dam...@AOL.com> wrote:
>> your Real ACM skills (and kills) are gonna suffer?
>>
>> -Doc Den
>they have already, Doc.
>Had a great time in FR PAC the other day doin a zeek bash,
>with Dragon, Ego Runner, ninja, and Crush,
> and it really brought home to me how much my timing has been skewed.
>I dint get in even one lead turn shot.
>(and I useda shoot these guys as they went by!)
heh...Drag whacked me Zeke v Zeke too.
Then, as I was in another Zeke, he dove on me in a higher F6...I
pulled the most PERFECT vertical lead turn I've ever done and nailed
his ass <g>. The he came up in a F4...dove on me..missed...kept
missing on repeated passes <I'm a tough bugger to hit in a Zeke...1v1
anyways>...then he got greedy, stayed to long and died again.
I been goin FR as often as people are there...keeping the edge so far.
Chris Victor
EyeBLS wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> But of course, if the pilot's goal is to never land, always go deep into
> enemy territory and take on superior numbers til dead, no scoring system
> will reflect his abilities.
>
Remove '...if the...' and substitue 'Poe' for 'pilot'.
Hmmm, it's beginning to make alot more sense now as to why
my numbers suck compared to everybody else's.
Poe -+*KN*+- (268)
cmvi...@cris.com
http://www.cris.com/~cmvictor/
Gray Eagle
> your Real ACM skills (and kills) are gonna suffer?
>
> -Doc Den
they have already, Doc.
Had a great time in FR PAC the other day doin a zeek bash,
with Dragon, Ego Runner, ninja, and Crush,
and it really brought home to me how much my timing has been skewed.
I dint get in even one lead turn shot.
(and I useda shoot these guys as they went by!)
I didnt even kill em all, in the first merge.
I even got, (looks around to see if anyone's listening)
..Shot!
I am such a dweeb ..I need more air time :)
-Gray Eagle
DMoak
In article <4souia$n...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
fis...@worldnet.att.net writes:
>I been goin FR as often as people are there...keeping the edge so far.
Question:
It seems to me, having seen old DOS AW hands get shot down by dweebs in
partial realism, that different tactics may be effective in different
arenas. Like, in the unreal zones, you can pull more G's, do moves that
would put you in spins in FR, and of course the plane just plain will
handle somewhat different. Anyone have any ideas on what changes should be
made in ACM going from FR to unreal?
o---)Baddog>------ (Unreal, man, unreal!)
---)-Musketeers---
Doc Den
> Anyone have any ideas on what changes should be
> made in ACM going from FR to unreal?
> o---)Baddog>------ (Unreal, man, unreal!)
> ---)-Musketeers---
Do you mean going from unreal _to_ real? Heheh I hope so....NR is
already overpopulated and you can shoot a 20mm Hispano-Suiza through FR
and not hit anyone (OK..OK! Already!....That would be usual for
me...don't rub it in ;-)
Baddog, the best advise I could give in terms of getting the hang of FR
from NR is: To actually _go_ into the FR arena (GASP!) and fly. Sure
you're gonna die alot at first....who didn't? (don't answer that GE).
Soon, however, you'll have found how to keep your a/c "on the edge" of
it's envelope (ie not stalling (accelerated) or spinning) and actually
getting some kills!
This short diatribe isn't really aimed at you BD......more the 80 or so
players that show up to NR everynight who seem to be "stuck" in NR (some
_may_ actually prefer NR.....but we won't get into personality disorders
here ;)
Cheers!
-Doc Den
DMoak
Doc
That is not the problem. I am interested in the change of tactics going
from Full Real (where I follishly spend much of my time, even though at my
skill level, it is a bit much) TO the unreal zones. I saw an old DOS hand
get shot down twice by a dweeb in duels there (won't metion any names ;).
I am interested in why this would happen. I suspect that, since you don't
have some of the problems you have in Full Real, plus planes perform
different, that tactics may need to be adjusted if you are an old DOS hand
at FR going to AOL unreal. I am interested in what changes of tactics
might be nessissary, like pulling more G's sometimes, operating at speeds
that would normally have you into a spin in FR, etc.
No need to talk me into FR, already dumb enough to go there.
o---)Baddog>------ (Yup, fat, dumb, and happy!)
---)-Musketeers--- (Who just about own FR pacific, AOL)
Thomas Hastings
Eric 'Thud' Spottke (espo...@concentric.net) wrote:
: dm...@aol.com (DMoak) wrote:
: >Doc
: >That is not the problem. I am interested in the change of tactics going
: >from Full Real (where I follishly spend much of my time, even though at my
: >skill level, it is a bit much) TO the unreal zones. I saw an old DOS hand
: >get shot down twice by a dweeb in duels there (won't metion any names ;).
BadDog, I'm surprised you fly at all, considering the volume of stuff you
post here. Anyone that's as good at typing as you will be a hell of a
good pilot if they get out there and practice.
There are inate skills that some have, of course, but generally pilots get
better by practicing the basics of control and view.
Bummer
EyeBLS
In article <4spnrl$l...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, dm...@aol.com (DMoak)
writes:
> Anyone have any ideas on what changes should be
>made in ACM going from FR to unreal?
BD if you really mean going from FR to NR, the best hint is to use high G
lead turns. You cant do them as well in FR because of high speed stalls
leading to spins and/or blackouts.
If you mean going from NR to FR then I concur with DOc Den, fly full
realism for practice. You can do this offline by running the airwar.exe
from Windows. Goto the setup section and select ACE realism under
aircraft setup.
Learn to do high G maneuvers at the edge of the blackout. Learn one
airplane so you know how to maneuver without spinning. Go to Twist's home
page and read up on his tips for your aircraft of choice.
On the other hand, you can ignore the purists and stay on NR and have fun.
Takes a lower testosterone level tho. <G> I've been following the crowd
and flying NR on AOL after 4 years on the DOS game. Haven't gotten bored
yet, but then having a kills/sortie rate several times higher than I have
ever had before may be influencing me.
Eyeballs
Eric 'Thud' Spottke
dm...@aol.com (DMoak) wrote:
>Doc
>That is not the problem. I am interested in the change of tactics going
>from Full Real (where I follishly spend much of my time, even though at my
>skill level, it is a bit much) TO the unreal zones. I saw an old DOS hand
>get shot down twice by a dweeb in duels there (won't metion any names ;).
What I have found switching betwixt the FR and NR arenas is this (as
far as tactics go):
in NR:
Keep the plane well beyond it's structural (and pilot) limits. You can
fool a lot of 'vets' by coming into a fight lower and way too fast
(for the plane and you). The 'vet' will see this incredible closure
rate and dismiss you as a foe that doesn't know what he is doing.
This is where the 'vet' will be wrong (as far as NR is concerned). In
NR the pilot can chop the throttle and pull 10 to 15 G's. He can
reverses his course faster than a weasel and still have a lot of E to
spare. The 'vet' is now busy working on another target. He has
dismissed you as a threat. He is now working on more willing meat. A
fatal mistake.
>I am interested in why this would happen. I suspect that, since you don't
>have some of the problems you have in Full Real, plus planes perform
>different, that tactics may need to be adjusted if you are an old DOS hand
>at FR going to AOL unreal. I am interested in what changes of tactics
>might be nessissary, like pulling more G's sometimes, operating at speeds
>that would normally have you into a spin in FR, etc.
A DOS 'vet' has learned that pulling more than 5.5 g's for a prolonged
period of time gets himself into trouble....FAST. DOS 'vets' will try
to keep the target in view at all times. DOS 'vets' are more
accustomed to the limitations of the FR flight model.
Give a 'vet' some time in the NR world and I'm sure they wont get
'fooled' quite as often.
We were there. We sometimes forget how NR works.
--
Eric Spottke
-)--Thud----3577
Doc Den
DMoak wrote:
>
> Doc
> That is not the problem. I am interested in the change of tactics going
> from Full Real (where I follishly spend much of my time,
> o---)Baddog>------ (Yup, fat, dumb, and happy!)
> ---)-Musketeers--- (Who just about own FR pacific, AOL)
heheh...OK...rgr that BD. As I said some of those comments weren't
directed at you per se....I think I do recall your handle appearing in a
/roster callup in FR. I just couldn't miss spouting off about trying to
get more people interested in FR instead of Galacticom...err...I mean NR.
As subsequent posts point out, there is a big difference in how you fly
NR vs. FR because of what you can make the a/c do (i.e. _perfect_ max G
turns at unbelievable speeds (fast or slow)).
One thing that got me outta NR (was half-time back then too) was the fact
that real-world evasives don't tend to work well in NR but try them in
FR...THEY WORK! Even for a beginner it meant that, after some evasive
practice, I could "hang in there" long enough to learn
something...instead of the "it's only a matter of time" death that occurs
once someone gets one your tail in NR (esp. back in ht).
Still....I won't Pooh pooh anyone's fun and if NR is a guys cup-o-tea
then so be it. Hey.....I was _really_ good a galacticom once! (anybody
remember "Defender"?...now _that_ was a video arcade game worth playing!)
cya there!
-Doc Den -=TH=-
Gray Eagle
> I saw an old DOS hand get shot down twice by a dweeb in duels there (won't metion any names ;).
hehe, well, it happened to me because I went in on the deck, always against higher opponents, and even tho they dove on me 1-1, I was low an
slow most of the time.
I mean, it just wouldn'ta been fair for me to meet em head to head.
As it was I started feelin guilty the second time I engaged em.
I still hadnt fired my guns, an poor Dragn an ninja ate water hard.
-Gray Eagle
Gray Eagle
> Haven't gotten bored
> yet, but then having a kills/sortie rate several times higher than I have
> ever had before may be influencing me.
>
> Eyeballs
hehe, IMHO, I am havin a blast.
It's just pure fun to wade in to impossible situations, and actually fly home, after :)
Sometimes I dont :) But I'm usually laffin when I get shot.
It's just so hectic, and .. FUN :)
The basic difference that appeals to me, I can work a guy, drag him out, get him slow, AND HE CANT SPIN!!!
It's worth the trouble.
-Gray Eagle
fis...@worldnet.att.net
Gray Eagle <Dam...@AOL.com> wrote:
>hehe, IMHO, I am havin a blast.
>It's just pure fun to wade in to impossible situations, and actually fly home, after :)
>Sometimes I dont :) But I'm usually laffin when I get shot.
>It's just so hectic, and .. FUN :)
Pure fun? I'll give ya pure fun......witness, if you will....
After WN last Friday, a newbie team mate come up to me and tells me
that he got fragged twice by some dweeb who's CPID is "Dork". Ell, me
being me, I'm off the the NR arena to see if he's up and call him on
it. Turns out he's some moron who also goes by "Judd" who I've had run
ins with before...basically..he's an asshole 14 year-old, I think.
Anyway, after this moron brags how we can't do anything about his
fraggin because he's some AOL genius who can change screen names, vary
accounts and get away with basically anything he wants to...ya know
the type...pre-pubescent wanna be hacker..other vets are on ch1
ragging on him too...he calls me out...says meet him off C83.
Well...me being me again, I say fuck it and go on up and cruise
towards B83 looking for the solo B thats supposed to be him. I see 6
Bz in assorted planes all grouped together off to the east, but ignore
em, cause I'm on a mission, ya know.
Well, I buzz about a bit in my 109, then figure he pussied out, same
as he did last time he called me out <he ran to the other side of the
arena>, so I figure "What the Hell" and zip over to the 6 Bz, who are
still all clumped up over there. In a fast and furious co-E furball I
whack em all, blowin the last Spit with my last bullet.....
Yep..you guessed it...he was in there..hiding in the swarm <g>. He was
the third or fourth guy to buy it...hehehehehe Poor assholes look like
they didn't know what hit them!
Now THAT was fun! <g>
EyeBLS
In article <4sumti$q...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
fis...@worldnet.att.net writes:
>Now THAT was fun! <g>
exactly what GE and I have said about flying NR on AOL.
Yesterday i was rtb with 50% ammo in a Spit. Three enemy arrived as I
entered the pattern, low and slow. Had five friendlies to engage them so
I figured I'd land and let them handle it. All three enemies blow by my
buddies and engage me.
had enough speed to do a break turn 45 to the left followed by a reversal
to the right that put on the tail of one of the attackers. 1. The first
enemy made a lazy turn to the left and I picked him up all the way to my
right as he overshot me the second time. Pursuit curve to his six. 2.
Third man now in fight with five friendlies. I fly up under him and
follow him vertical. 3. Gave me 5 kill mission and the first two were
buffs.
Man, I never did this kind of stuff before. <G>
Eyeballs
DMoak
In article <31F2D1...@mindlink.bc.ca>, Doc Den <a21...@mindlink.bc.ca>
writes:
>heheh...OK...rgr that BD. As I said some of those comments weren't
>directed at you per se....I think I do recall your handle appearing in a
>/roster callup in FR. I just couldn't miss spouting off about trying to
>get more people interested in FR instead of Galacticom...err...I mean NR
Could'nt agree more, like FR more, but gotta have enemas to do it.
Maybe you could clue me in on those evasives, and why they don't work in
NR?
Just need to be up to speed on NR, as eagle day/der tag is coming up
(someday?), and I suspect it won't be in FR.
o---)Baddog>------ (Lure them into FR, then kill em.)
---)-Musketeers--- (Or, in my case, die trying :)
doran
Bum...@cris.com (Thomas Hastings) wrote:
>Bummer
Thought I was the only one who noticed, then again maybe I'm just
jealous 'cause I have such poor typing skills
Lazrus
JackG0504
In article <4ssadq$l...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, dm...@aol.com (DMoak)
writes:
> I saw an old DOS hand
>get shot down twice by a dweeb in duels there
Bad Doggie Dog,
Something to consider:
Some of the "vets" (not the kind who heal sick animals) have been
complaining a lot about machine problems - as well as connection problems
- with AOL's FE. High delays and low frame rates can make even the best
pilot look sick if they are pulling maneuvers based on what may (or may
not) have happened 1.5 - 2 seconds in the past.
I tend to jump back and forth between FR and NR and find that, if you
calibrate your joystick for the particular arena, it's not hard to switch
back and forth - at least now that the two arenas are at "full" time
speed. I agree with the other pilots about pulling multiple "g"s, though.
If you're used to riding the edge in FR you have to remind yourself there
is no "edge" in NR.
Most of the FR hotshots all started in NR anyway - they better know how to
fly it!
HEY! you may as well enjoy NR while you got it. After all, flying NR is
kind of like riding a bike or having sex - the older you get the fewer
chances you get (or something like that.)
Slug *TH*
DMoak
>One thing that got me outta NR (was half-time back then too) was the fact
>that real-world evasives don't tend to work well in NR but try them in
>FR...THEY WORK! Even for a beginner it meant that, after some evasive
>practice, I could "hang in there" long enough to learn
>something...instead of the "it's only a matter of time" death that occurs
>once someone gets one your tail in NR (esp. back in ht).
>
>
Still would *REALLY* like to know what these evasives, that work in FR but
not elsewhere, are, and how to do them. Think it would be a really good
idea if word got out about what the ADVANTAGES of FR were, that make
putting up with blackous, spins, etc, bearable. That way, more people will
actually see FR as a good thing, not stay out, like they do here on AOL
(but last Sunday, 15 people showd up, a buttload of fun :). Me, I like FR
because I want to fly Real planes using Real ACM. My skill level is'nt
really up to it (yet...), but thats never stopped me :).
The advantages of FR I know are:
1) There are some mysterious evesives out there, that if learned, will
allow longer survival here than in other earenas.
2) The planes handle hotter (has its good points and bad points, but you
do get more performance). They handle here just like the real thing, so an
FW is more like an FW, etc, and real historical FW tactics will work.
3) If you can even fly here, it shows more skill. If you can win, more
yet, and it shows you could even fly the real thing (more or less). More
challange.
4) If you are a historical warbird buff, this is the place, as these
planes handle like the real thing. This the obvious place to have Real
Historical battles, if you have ever wanted to refly them.
Just my ideas. Most of you have been a lot longer in FR than I have,
whats yours?
o---)Baddog>----- (Yeah, a real, a Full Real dog. Whats it to ya?)
---)-Musketeers-- (A Real squadron, Full Real.)
Doc Den
DMoak wrote:
>
> Still would *REALLY* like to know what these evasives, that work in FR but
> not elsewhere, are, and how to do them.
Heheh Baddog....good points (I snipped them out). I'm sure by now
you've been referred to Shaw's "Fighter Combat". You seem like your
pretty well addicted to this game....so you may as well go ahead and buy
the book.....you'll need it ;)
For me the most salient example was the rolling scissors. Died _every_
damn time in Ht. Started in RT and died only 75% of the time and with a
little perserverence and the right plane match (err mismatch) I would
only die 30% of the time.
Really cool how you could read some ACM outta Shaw....boot up the
'puter to RT...and see it work! Just never happened like that in
HT for me.
-Doc Den
PS Even for the 'historian' in you, Shaw's book is great. Lotsa
anecdotes from the "source" to illustrate his concepts....fun reading.
Steve Rawlinson
>Still would *REALLY* like to know what these evasives, that work in FR but
>not elsewhere, are, and how to do them.
Go to Draco's Split Arse Saloon and download overshot.zip:
http://www.cris.com/~Draco/film.html
> Just my ideas. Most of you have been a lot longer in FR than I have,
>whats yours?
Pilot skill counts for more in FR. When I get shot down in FR I know
its cos I did something I shouldn't. Thats not to say that the best
pilot always wins of course but if you get caught low and slow by an
inferior pilot in FR you stand a much better chance than you would in
NR.
I enjoy NR mostly because I've there so long and know the people, but
also because I much prefer the smaller terrain. BUt I prefer the
actual game in FR.
I understand from AOL UK that AW will be available here from the end
of October. I really hope the BoB scenario is held off till then or I
may have to pay international phone rates to play ;)
Trip