My 33rd Degree
JD Kukenbaker
conferred by their Scottish Rite bodies.
It is true that I am not a 33rd degree Mason in the Southern, Northern, or
Canadian jurisdictions. I was invested with my 33rd degree by the Grand Lodge
of Freemasons of North America (GLFNA). The GLFNA confers the 'Blue Lodge'
degrees as well as the 4th thru 33rd degrees. In much the same way as a few
lodges in Louisiana do.
I have been a Freemason for 33 years. It took me 3 years to be passed from
Entered Apprentice to Fellowcraft and another 4 to be Raised to the Sublime
Degree of Master Mason. Each degree require intense study and qualification
before the members of my lodge.
The 4th to the 32nd degree took 10 more years. And 5 years later I was invested
with the 33rd Degree. No, I did not forget about the KCCH. The GLFNA does not
have the KCCH.
I was not a 1 day Master Mason and certainly not a 1 or 2 day Scottish Rite
wonder.
S & F,
J.D. Kukenbaker, 33*
Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Freemasons of North America
SSG Russo
I truly regret that you have invested so much time in an orginization which has
not been invested with Fraternal Relations by Regular Just and Legally
Constituted Masonry throughout the world, nor Regular PHA.
This misforture has beguiled many good men where I am stationed here at Fort
Lee, Virginia. These unfortunate souls are conferred degrees by your
organization and can have no fraternal contact with either the Grand Lodge of
Virginia, A.F. & A.M., nor the PHA Grand Lodge of Virginia, F. & A.M.
What makes this a sadder event is your organization sets grueling standards to
counter its irregular status, and then when these soldiers move, change duty
stations, go home and attempt to visit a Lodge--they are embarrassed by being
turned away at the door.
As a member of the Scottish Rite, Valley of Richmond, Orient of Virginia,
Southern Jurisdiction--Mother jurisdiction to the world; your affiliation with
a Scottish Rite body unrecognized by either the Southern Jurisdiction nor
Northern Jurisdiction compounds my dismay and sad countenance for the great
time which you have invested in your organization.
There is hope; 1) If you are comfortable with the Lodge you have joined despite
being unrecognized by a majority of the world and it makes you happy--it has
served its purpose and no further action is necessary. 2) In accordance with
the Decision 6, 1937, of the Grand Lodge of Virginia Section 3.05 and 2.94 of
the Virginia Methodical Digest: A clandestinely made Mason must renounce
membership or affiliation in a clandestine Lodge, its Grand Lodge or any other
organization within, or having jurisdction over it before a regular Lodge can
receive his petition. His petition should state all the facts of his
connection with such organization and be accomplished by a form of
renunciation.
As a member of a Clandestine organization which has chartered a Grand Lodge in
my Jurisdiction, without the consent, regularity, or fraternal relationship
with either my Grand Lodge nor that of the PHA Grand Lodge--I can have no
further discourse with you concerning Freemasonry according to Masonic Law in
my jurisdiction.
I would hope while you still have time that you apply the knowledge you have
received and make every attempt to be healed and then attain the 33rd Degree
where it will count and be accepted and just and regular.
With sincere regard,
Jason C. Russo
carbeng
JD Kukenbaker wrote:
> Many brothers have ridiculed and doubted my 33rd degree since it was not
> conferred by their Scottish Rite bodies.
>
> It is true that I am not a 33rd degree Mason in the Southern, Northern, or
> Canadian jurisdictions. I was invested with my 33rd degree by the Grand Lodge
> of Freemasons of North America (GLFNA). The GLFNA confers the 'Blue Lodge'
> degrees as well as the 4th thru 33rd degrees. In much the same way as a few
> lodges in Louisiana do.
>
> I have been a Freemason for 33 years. It took me 3 years to be passed from
> Entered Apprentice to Fellowcraft and another 4 to be Raised to the Sublime
> Degree of Master Mason. Each degree require intense study and qualification
> before the members of my lodge.
> <<<<<<<---------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>
And in your 34th year you beacame a pompous ass!!!
Do us all a favour, and spare us from your dribble, which I honestly think you do
not believe yourself.
Ben Gee
GM 888° of the Garnd Lodge of Venus
Kirk Richardson
--
Brother Kirk
EA Clifton No. 254
"carbeng" <car...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3B26C96F...@sympatico.ca...
Animal Style Gene Goldman.·.
wrote:
> Many brothers have ridiculed and doubted my 33rd degree since it was not
> conferred by their Scottish Rite bodies.
No, that's not the reason at all.
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
http://www.calodges.org/no442
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
ICQ #503060
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
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Be seeing you
JBennette
.
> Many brothers have ridiculed and doubted my 33rd degree since it was not
> conferred by their Scottish Rite bodies.
> It is true that I am not a 33rd degree Mason in the Southern, Northern, or
> Canadian jurisdictions. I was invested with my 33rd degree by the Grand Lodge
> of Freemasons of North America (GLFNA). The GLFNA confers the 'Blue Lodge'
> degrees as well as the 4th thru 33rd degrees. In much the same way as a few
> lodges in Louisiana do.
> I have been a Freemason for 33 years. It took me 3 years to be passed from
> Entered Apprentice to Fellowcraft and another 4 to be Raised to the Sublime
> Degree of Master Mason. Each degree require intense study and qualification
> before the members of my lodge.
> The 4th to the 32nd degree took 10 more years. And 5 years later I was invested
> with the 33rd Degree. No, I did not forget about the KCCH. The GLFNA does not
> have the KCCH.
Wow, in chicago theyll do em all in one night. Often. Too often. Nice
shriner building though.
-----.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
Mike Wells
. <yt...@mutilation.net> wrote in message
news:9gla86$ogp$2...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> JD Kukenbaker <jdkuke...@aol.com> wrote:
> > I have been a Freemason for 33 years. It took me 3 years to be passed
from
> > Entered Apprentice to Fellowcraft and another 4 to be Raised to the
Sublime
> > Degree of Master Mason. Each degree require intense study and
qualification
> > before the members of my lodge.
>
> > The 4th to the 32nd degree took 10 more years. And 5 years later I was
invested
> > with the 33rd Degree. No, I did not forget about the KCCH. The GLFNA
does not
> > have the KCCH.
>
> Wow, in chicago theyll do em all in one night. Often. Too often. Nice
> shriner building though.
Really? All those Degrees in one night? What Grand Lodge do you belong to?
Mike Wells
Normal #673 AF&AM Illinois
Collector of old Masonic books
.
I dont belong to any masonic organization which is recognized by any bonafide
Grand Lodge, which is why I respectfully decline the use of any and all titles
thereof which may or may not apply to me...
However, ive had some experience with the exquisite Scottish Rigth Cathedral in
Chicago, and know many people who have as well...
Michael Poll
> Many brothers have ridiculed and doubted my 33rd degree since it was not
> conferred by their Scottish Rite bodies.
>
> It is true that I am not a 33rd degree Mason in the Southern, Northern, or
> Canadian jurisdictions. I was invested with my 33rd degree by the Grand Lodge
> of Freemasons of North America (GLFNA). The GLFNA confers the 'Blue Lodge'
> degrees as well as the 4th thru 33rd degrees. In much the same way as a few
> lodges in Louisiana do.
Hello Bro. Kukenbaker,
It has been a while since I have posted here and this seems like a
good thread to begin again. I belong to one of those Louisiana AASR
Craft Lodges that you mention. I am under the jurisdiction of the
Grand Lodge of Louisiana. We also have a number of Lodges under the
jurisdiction of the Supreme Council of Louisiana which also work in
the AASR Craft degrees. The SCL, of course, continues to the 33rd
while the GL stops at the 3rd.
I am afraid that I have never heard of the GLFNA and I doubt that
anyone in the SCL has either. This does not mean to suggest that you
are making up that such a body does exist, but I must tell you that I
have serious doubts that your body has any strong claim on regularity.
In any event. It is good to meet you and I am glad that others know
about the proud AASR heritage we have in Louisiana.
Fraternally,
Michael Poll, PM
Germania Lodge #46 AASR
New Orleans, LA
The Grand Lodge of Louisiana
Steven M. Hudson
> Mike Wells <mgwb...@fgi.net> wrote:
>
>
> I dont belong to any masonic organization which is recognized by any
bonafide
> Grand Lodge, which is why I respectfully decline the use of any and all
titles
> thereof which may or may not apply to me...
>
I wanted to say that I respect you for this. If for whatever reason you
joined a unrecognised lodge, it is very honorable of you to announce that
and to not try to pass yourself as 'mainstream'. Kudos.
Steve .'.
Animal Style Gene Goldman.·.
On 18 Jun 2001 20:44:00 -0700, mp...@compuserve.com (Michael Poll)
wrote:
> Hello Bro. Kukenbaker,
>
> It has been a while since I have posted here and this seems like a
> good thread to begin again. I belong to one of those Louisiana AASR
> Craft Lodges that you mention. I am under the jurisdiction of the
> Grand Lodge of Louisiana. We also have a number of Lodges under the
> jurisdiction of the Supreme Council of Louisiana which also work in
> the AASR Craft degrees. The SCL, of course, continues to the 33rd
> while the GL stops at the 3rd.
>
> I am afraid that I have never heard of the GLFNA and I doubt that
> anyone in the SCL has either. This does not mean to suggest that you
> are making up that such a body does exist, but I must tell you that I
> have serious doubts that your body has any strong claim on regularity.
>
> In any event. It is good to meet you and I am glad that others know
> about the proud AASR heritage we have in Louisiana.
>
> Fraternally,
> Michael Poll, PM
> Germania Lodge #46 AASR
> New Orleans, LA
> The Grand Lodge of Louisiana
--
.
Well, to me theres no point in masquerading as something that im not, but
at the same time I suspect that we have enough in common that efficient
communication is possible...:)
Tom Accuosti
"Steven M. Hudson" <steve....@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:VKBX6.349$RM2.19...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Sorry, Steve, I respectfully disagree here. While his lodge may not be
"mainstream", within the framework of his lodge there is an hierarchy
that should be respected as such. Yttrx should be proud to post his
affiliation and his titles, as long as he's open about the fact that
it's non-mainstream.
And Yttrx, if you worked hard at your degrees, and try to live according
to the principles espoused by your GL, then you have no reason to be
embarassed, nor to hide your light under a bushel (I love that phrase).
Consider this an opportunity for mainstreamers to learn about your
affiliation - most of us are like sponges for knowledge!
Tom Accuosti
"I'd love to ome to your party," said Pavlov, drooling.
Michael Poll
> Good to see you back here, Brother Mike.
>
Hi my Brother Gene! Good to "see" you again. I visit here every now
and then but have been unable to post for some time. When Google took
over something went south in my set up. I came back yesterday, saw
this thread and, for some unknown reason, saw that I could post (after
re-registering).
I read a lot of the "comical stuff" and it's just as well that I have
not posted for some time. <BG>
Frat.
Mike
.
> "Steven M. Hudson" <steve....@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:VKBX6.349$RM2.19...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> |
> | "." <yt...@mutilation.net> wrote in message
> | news:9gm63t$fsf$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> | > Mike Wells <mgwb...@fgi.net> wrote:
> | >
> | >
> | > I dont belong to any masonic organization which is recognized by any
> | bonafide
> | > Grand Lodge, which is why I respectfully decline the use of any and
> all
> | titles
> | > thereof which may or may not apply to me...
> | >
> |
> | I wanted to say that I respect you for this. If for whatever reason
> you
> | joined a unrecognised lodge, it is very honorable of you to announce
> that
> | and to not try to pass yourself as 'mainstream'. Kudos.
> Sorry, Steve, I respectfully disagree here. While his lodge may not be
> "mainstream", within the framework of his lodge there is an hierarchy
> that should be respected as such. Yttrx should be proud to post his
> affiliation and his titles, as long as he's open about the fact that
> it's non-mainstream.
Ah, proudness doesnt have alot to do with the issue as it relates to my
status. I find that conversations in this medium actually flow much more
efficiently if I keep my affiliations to myself...:)
> And Yttrx, if you worked hard at your degrees, and try to live according
> to the principles espoused by your GL, then you have no reason to be
> embarassed, nor to hide your light under a bushel (I love that phrase).
Me too...:)
> Consider this an opportunity for mainstreamers to learn about your
> affiliation - most of us are like sponges for knowledge!
Ive had accounts with two quasi-masonic groups, both of them spinoffs
of mainstream freemasonry in the late 19th century.
The biggest reason that id rather not name them under this moniker is that
it is something of a mild anonymity (though its exceedingly easy to find
out who I actually am with a few minutes of searching), and id rather not
mix interests...
Animal Style Gene Goldman.·.
wrote:
> Hi my Brother Gene! Good to "see" you again. I visit here every now
> and then but have been unable to post for some time.
Well, an e-mail would have been nice.
> When Google took
> over something went south in my set up. I came back yesterday, saw
> this thread and, for some unknown reason, saw that I could post (after
> re-registering).
Well, welcome back. I didn't know anything about the Google thing
until today. I post through my ISP's NNTP service. I'm glad you are
able to be here again.
>
> I read a lot of the "comical stuff" and it's just as well that I have
> not posted for some time. <BG>
>
> Frat.
> Mike
<LOL>
I suppose you have a point. Your "fuse" tends to be a bit shorter
than mine.
<s>
Since you are back, I would like to hear your thoughts on a couple of
papers I have written on the history of our fraternity - for our
Officer's Management Workshops around the state. Do you have
PowerPoint?
MasonTruth
>From: mp...@compuserve.com (Michael Poll)
>Date: 6/18/01 9:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time
>Message-id: <45b582b0.01061...@posting.google.com>
>
Welcome back Brother Mike!
Good to see you posting and sharing information..
S & F,
MasonTruth
Bro. Manny Blanco (S.W.) Finally
Moreno Valley Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley, CA
"Behold how good and pleasant it is for Brethren to dwell together in unity."
Mike Wells
> Mike Wells <mgwb...@fgi.net> wrote:
>
> > . <yt...@mutilation.net> wrote in message
> > news:9gla86$ogp$2...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> >> Wow, in chicago theyll do em all in one night. Often. Too often.
Nice
> >> shriner building though.
>
> > Really? All those Degrees in one night? What Grand Lodge do you belong
to?
>
> I dont belong to any masonic organization which is recognized by any
bonafide
> Grand Lodge, which is why I respectfully decline the use of any and all
titles
> thereof which may or may not apply to me...
I do agree that titles, with the exception of Brother, have no place in this
forum unless as illustrative of a point based experience. Affiliations
though should be public for from that we may learn the Jurisdictional
differences. However, whatever you are comfortable with.
Having mentioned Chicago, are you familiar with the "Masonic Monthly
Bulletin Newsletter"?
I did not want anyone to be misled into believing that my Grand Lodge in
conjunction with the Appendant Bodies would confer all those Degrees in one
day. In this Jurisdiction, it takes two to three days.
.
> . <yt...@mutilation.net> wrote in message
> news:9gm63t$fsf$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>> Mike Wells <mgwb...@fgi.net> wrote:
>>
>> > . <yt...@mutilation.net> wrote in message
>> > news:9gla86$ogp$2...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>> >> Wow, in chicago theyll do em all in one night. Often. Too often.
> Nice
>> >> shriner building though.
>>
>> > Really? All those Degrees in one night? What Grand Lodge do you belong
> to?
>>
>> I dont belong to any masonic organization which is recognized by any
> bonafide
>> Grand Lodge, which is why I respectfully decline the use of any and all
> titles
>> thereof which may or may not apply to me...
> I do agree that titles, with the exception of Brother, have no place in this
> forum unless as illustrative of a point based experience. Affiliations
> though should be public for from that we may learn the Jurisdictional
> differences. However, whatever you are comfortable with.
Appreciated...
> Having mentioned Chicago, are you familiar with the "Masonic Monthly
> Bulletin Newsletter"?
Yes indeed...
> I did not want anyone to be misled into believing that my Grand Lodge in
> conjunction with the Appendant Bodies would confer all those Degrees in one
> day. In this Jurisdiction, it takes two to three days.
Alright, I seem to have blanched the fact a little bit, but its still a
hell of alot of preparation. :)
-----.
Steven M. Hudson
"Tom Accuosti" <tacc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:IvKX6.19892$Kq4.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Steven M. Hudson" <steve....@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:VKBX6.349$RM2.19...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> |
> | "." <yt...@mutilation.net> wrote in message
> | news:9gm63t$fsf$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> | > Mike Wells <mgwb...@fgi.net> wrote:
> | >
> | >
> | > I dont belong to any masonic organization which is recognized by any
> | bonafide
> | > Grand Lodge, which is why I respectfully decline the use of any and
> all
> | titles
> | > thereof which may or may not apply to me...
> | >
> |
> | I wanted to say that I respect you for this. If for whatever reason
> you
> | joined a unrecognised lodge, it is very honorable of you to announce
> that
> | and to not try to pass yourself as 'mainstream'. Kudos.
>
> Sorry, Steve, I respectfully disagree here. While his lodge may not be
> "mainstream", within the framework of his lodge there is an hierarchy
> that should be respected as such. Yttrx should be proud to post his
> affiliation and his titles, as long as he's open about the fact that
> it's non-mainstream.
I think you might have misunderstood what I was applauding Tom -- it was not
his 'hiding his titles', but I can see how you might have read it that way,
it was the up-front nature of his declaring he was from a non-recognized
Grand Lodge.
> And Yttrx, if you worked hard at your degrees, and try to live according
> to the principles espoused by your GL, then you have no reason to be
> embarassed, nor to hide your light under a bushel (I love that phrase).
Well, he _does_ self-indentify as a 'Satanist'. ;-) But other than that,
he seems okay to me.
Steve .'.
.
See, this is why Im glad I posted in the first place...:)
Michael Poll
> >Subject: Re: My 33rd Degree
> >From: mp...@compuserve.com (Michael Poll)
> >Date: 6/18/01 9:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <45b582b0.01061...@posting.google.com>
> >
>
> Welcome back Brother Mike!
>
> Good to see you posting and sharing information..
>
Good to see you also my Brother!
frat.
Mike
Michael Poll
> Well, an e-mail would have been nice.
I'm a slug ... <G>
> <LOL>
> I suppose you have a point. Your "fuse" tends to be a bit shorter
> than mine.
> <s>
Not to mention the fact that I am just plain mean.
> Since you are back, I would like to hear your thoughts on a couple of
> papers I have written on the history of our fraternity - for our
> Officer's Management Workshops around the state. Do you have
> PowerPoint?
No ... can it be in Word or text? I would enjoy to read what you have
written! I have little doubt that it is of value to all.
Frat.
Mike
Ed King
Hudson wrote:
> > Sorry, Steve, I respectfully disagree here. While his lodge may not be
> > "mainstream", within the framework of his lodge there is an hierarchy
> > that should be respected as such. Yttrx should be proud to post his
> > affiliation and his titles, as long as he's open about the fact that
> > it's non-mainstream.
>
> I think you might have misunderstood what I was applauding Tom -- it was not
> his 'hiding his titles', but I can see how you might have read it that way,
> it was the up-front nature of his declaring he was from a non-recognized
> Grand Lodge.
Let's try to remember that this is the troll who attempted to claim that
Timothy McVeigh was a Mason! <SIGH>
He's no more a Grand Master than my fireplace! He's a liar and a fraud:
nothing more, nothing less.
<snip>
Fraternally,
Ed King
http://www.masonicinfo.com -- Anti-Masonry: Points of View
Animal Style Gene Goldman.·.
wrote:
> > Well, an e-mail would have been nice.
>
> I'm a slug ... <G>
Don't feel bad. I'm a Morally Superior Official Lord Chief High
Exhaulted Omnipotent Boss Rogue Cult-Minded Fanatic Hate-Filled
Queer-Writing Deceptive Attacking Enforcer Goon Cyber Terrorist
Newsgroup Stalker Thug. And I have the archives to proove it!
<LOL>
> Not to mention the fact that I am just plain mean.
Yes, there is that, isn't there?
<LOL>
> > Since you are back, I would like to hear your thoughts on a couple of
> > papers I have written on the history of our fraternity - for our
> > Officer's Management Workshops around the state. Do you have
> > PowerPoint?
>
> No ... can it be in Word or text? I would enjoy to read what you have
> written! I have little doubt that it is of value to all.
Let me see what I can do. I think I can save it as a Word doc. Or
else as html.
steve.hudson
"Ed King" <edk...@masonicinfo.com> wrote in message
news:VA.0000206...@mint.net...
> Let's try to remember that this is the troll who attempted to claim that
> Timothy McVeigh was a Mason! <SIGH>
>
All the more reason to applaud his forthrightness about _not_ being part of
traditional mainstream Masonry. And who knows, McVeigh may have been a
member of some clandestine group which believed they were 'masonic'. We'd
still agree he wasn't a Mason either by actions nor by affiliation with
_our_ fraternity. We don't, imho, have to ignore the virtues of our
opponents in order to disagree with their positions.
> He's no more a Grand Master than my fireplace! He's a liar and a fraud:
> nothing more, nothing less.
If he sincerely believes he has information which proves Tim McVeigh was a
member of some clandestine group which called themselves 'masons' then he is
not a 'liar' Ed. At worst he is misinformed.
And he may not be a fraud either. If he is a member of a some (perhaps very
small) group, he may _be_ a Grand Master in that organization. So long as
he is not presenting himself as a member of _our_ organization the charge of
'fraud' seems unfounded. If I claim to be the Grand Master of the
Ridgefield Chapter of 'Mensans for Sirius' and there is no other officially
chartered organization by that name, I don't think you'd be right in calling
me a fraud. (Other, less attractive names perhaps, but not 'fraud').
I'm all for calling things as they are, but I personally believe in honoring
self-disclosure and directness where one finds it -- especially amongst ones
opponents.
Respectfully,
Steve .'.
Animal Style Gene Goldman.·.
<steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
> And he may not be a fraud either. If he is a member of a some (perhaps very
> small) group, he may _be_ a Grand Master in that organization. So long as
> he is not presenting himself as a member of _our_ organization the charge of
> 'fraud' seems unfounded. If I claim to be the Grand Master of the
> Ridgefield Chapter of 'Mensans for Sirius' and there is no other officially
> chartered organization by that name, I don't think you'd be right in calling
> me a fraud. (Other, less attractive names perhaps, but not 'fraud').
>
> I'm all for calling things as they are, but I personally believe in honoring
> self-disclosure and directness where one finds it -- especially amongst ones
> opponents.
Ed, Steve is right. I have this friend who is the Grand Master of an
entire jurisdiction of Martinism. His jurisdiction only has one
member, and may not be recognized by any others (not sure of that, but
I recall someone telling me - anyway, it serves to illustrate my
point), but that does not mean he is a liar, nor a fraud. He IS the
Grand Master of his Order. Legally, actually and honestly.
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
http://www.calodges.org/no442
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
ICQ #503060
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
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t* 5 X- R* tv+++ b++ DI+++ D G e* h---- r+++ y++++
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Remember: Your Masonry may be different from someone else's.
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 2001. All rights reserved.
steve.hudson
""Animal Style" Gene Goldman.·." <br_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:hql1jts12p2muddn8...@4ax.com...
And I have at least one friend who is a fully and quite legally ordained
Minister of the Universal Life Church and has even performed legally binding
marriages in this capacity. He is not a fraud when he calls himself a
Minister, regardless of the rather easy requirements for obtaining this
capacity!
Become ordained online! http://www.ulc.net/ordain.htm
S&F,
Steve .'.
Tom Accuosti
Okay, I get it. I was hoping that he wasn't either intimidated or
embarassed. I realize that our "conversation" would need to be somewhat
limited in scope, but it's nice to see how the other haf lives (so to
speak)
|
| >> And Yttrx, if you worked hard at your degrees, and try to live
according
| >> to the principles espoused by your GL, then you have no reason to
be
| >> embarassed, nor to hide your light under a bushel (I love that
phrase).
|
| > Well, he _does_ self-indentify as a 'Satanist'. ;-) But other than
that,
| > he seems okay to me.
|
| See, this is why Im glad I posted in the first place...:)
Here's hoping that you keep posting. Or if need be, come back with your
other handle. Hell, mixing interests ain't nuthin' new on this board. In
fact, what's the ratios here, 20% Freemasonry and 80% everything else?
(of course, we all know that FM is symbolic enough so that discussions
of virtually anything can somehow fall under the umbrella...)
"Check out my latest X-ray plates," said Marie, radiantly.
Animal Style Gene Goldman.·.
ULC? I know them. I even know a guy who is a Bishop in that Church.
.
> | See, this is why Im glad I posted in the first place...:)
> Here's hoping that you keep posting. Or if need be, come back with your
> other handle. Hell, mixing interests ain't nuthin' new on this board. In
> fact, what's the ratios here, 20% Freemasonry and 80% everything else?
> (of course, we all know that FM is symbolic enough so that discussions
> of virtually anything can somehow fall under the umbrella...)
Hah. That sounds like a square deal.
Wacka wacka wacka.
Jim Bennie
<steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
> All the more reason to applaud his forthrightness about _not_ being part of
> traditional mainstream Masonry. And who knows, McVeigh may have been a
> member of some clandestine group which believed they were 'masonic'.
Or maybe he was another in a long-line of hit-and-run trolls who
decided to play 'Mason' for the day on daddy's computer.
Jim Bennie, IPM No. 44, Vancouver
Mike Wells
> Mike Wells <mgwb...@fgi.net> wrote:
> > Having mentioned Chicago, are you familiar with the "Masonic Monthly
> > Bulletin Newsletter"?
>
> Yes indeed...
Then, I shall test your knowledge. What are the initials of its editor's
first and last name?
Ed King
> > Let's try to remember that this is the troll who attempted to claim that
> > Timothy McVeigh was a Mason! <SIGH>
>
> All the more reason to applaud his forthrightness about _not_ being part of
> traditional mainstream Masonry.
Uh-huh....
> And who knows, McVeigh may have been a member of some clandestine
> group which believed they were 'masonic'.
As part of the anti-Masonic 'watching' I do, I tend to follow militia and
other groups pretty closely and am part of a fairly exclusive list that
addresses these folks. (Aware of a bombing at the Holocaust Museum in Boston
today? I am.... <sigh>). McVeigh has been analyzed from his head to his toes
and never ONCE has anyone ever suggested that he was part of ANY Masonic-type
organization.
In fact, his 'Bible' - the Turner Dairies - specifically eschews Freemasonry.
Ergo, he never would have been a part of it. Interviewers have been quite
clear that he was not part of ANY group.
> We'd still agree he wasn't a Mason either by actions nor by affiliation
> with _our_ fraternity. We don't, imho, have to ignore the virtues of our
> opponents in order to disagree with their positions.
This is - like others before it - a simple attempt to smear Freemasonry.
> > He's no more a Grand Master than my fireplace! He's a liar and a fraud:
> > nothing more, nothing less.
>
> If he sincerely believes he has information which proves Tim McVeigh was a
> member of some clandestine group which called themselves 'masons' then he is
> not a 'liar' Ed. At worst he is misinformed.
Let's see if he'll present it, may we? Isn't it strange that no one by that
name EVER posted here before and only arrived to post that? Doesn't it seem
strange that with all of the energy that Pope and Henderson devoted to
scouring out each and every single Masonic organization in the entire world,
they somehow managed to miss that one?
> And he may not be a fraud either. If he is a member of a some (perhaps very
> small) group, he may _be_ a Grand Master in that organization.
Do people who give themselves a title for a single post on usenet qualify as a
'member of a small group'? <shrug>
> So long as he is not presenting himself as a member of _our_
> organization the charge of 'fraud' seems unfounded.
I believe that he attempted to simply troll, much as an anti-abortionist
terrorist yesterday posted a message on an anti-abortion web site signaling
that he was going to start killing employees of clinics rather than doctors as
they were much easier to reach. This person is a federal penitentiary escapee
at the moment - if, in fact, the message is from the person claimed. Either
way, it's chilling - just as, IMO, the message from the troll claiming a
Masonic connection with McVeigh.
> If I claim to be the Grand Master of the
> Ridgefield Chapter of 'Mensans for Sirius' and there is no other officially
> chartered organization by that name, I don't think you'd be right in calling
> me a fraud. (Other, less attractive names perhaps, but not 'fraud').
Don' you think that someone calling themself a 'Grand Master', signing with a
33rd degree, and posting in alt.freemasonry was attempting to indicate a
connection with the fraternity?
> I'm all for calling things as they are, but I personally believe in honoring
> self-disclosure and directness where one finds it -- especially amongst ones
> opponents.
Me too. Now if you could only get Mike Restivo to admit that you know as much
about quantum physics as he thinks he does.... <ROFL>
Ed King
wrote:
Re: PowerPoint
> > No ... can it be in Word or text? I would enjoy to read what you have
> > written! I have little doubt that it is of value to all.
>
> Let me see what I can do. I think I can save it as a Word doc. Or
> else as html.
Actually, you could use the 'Pack and Go' feature. Include the Power Point
viewer (it's an option when you do the Pack & Go) when you do it and he'll
be able to view them just as if he had PowerPoint. I do it all the time....
(Zip your file before mailing to save on size.)
Have fun,
Ed King
http://www.masonicinfo.com -- Anti-Masonry: Points of View
Ed King
wrote:
> And I have at least one friend who is a fully and quite legally ordained
> Minister of the Universal Life Church and has even performed legally binding
> marriages in this capacity. He is not a fraud when he calls himself a
> Minister, regardless of the rather easy requirements for obtaining this
> capacity!
So you can henceforth refer to me as "Reverend"!
On the other hand, I'm not going to go to some ULC newsgroup where they could
take this stuff that the rest of us laugh about pretty seriously and start
telling them that the Oklahoma City bomber was a member of their group - or
one of the 'non-recognized sects' (and there ARE those in ULC, you know).
> Become ordained online! http://www.ulc.net/ordain.htm
Yeah, it's SO easy now. It was much more difficult when one sent a buck in an
envelope.... <G>
Remember: this is all about the claim that McVeigh was a Mason - and there was
NO indication from the fraud that McVeigh was a member of his (imaginary)
non-recognized group rather than mainstream Freemasonry.
Fraternally,
Ed King
http://www.masonicinfo.com -- Anti-Masonry: Points of View
Steven M. Hudson
> Remember: this is all about the claim that McVeigh was a Mason - and there
was
> NO indication from the fraud that McVeigh was a member of his (imaginary)
> non-recognized group rather than mainstream Freemasonry.
>
With all due respect Reverend. :-)
Which of the following two statements seems like a stronger rhetorical
position? Which statement reflects a greater respect for the brotherhood of
all men? Which statement seems like a statement from a person committed to
'subduing the passions' ?
Yttrx, who claims to be both a Satanist and a Grand Master
of an unrecognized lodge of masons, also claims that he has
evidence that Tim McVeigh was a member of a masonic lodge
(possibly also unrecognized) but to date has not provided
evidence to support this claim. I can find no reason to believe
his claim and find it unlikely in the extreme.
or
Yttrx is a liar and a fraud.
Maybe the mean the same thing relative to the 'truth' of his claim. But I
prefer the first one.
Just my opinion.
S&F,
Steve .'.
Animal Style Gene Goldman.·.
wrote:
> So you can henceforth refer to me as "Reverend"!
Bishop Goldman sends his regards.
> On the other hand, I'm not going to go to some ULC newsgroup where they could
> take this stuff that the rest of us laugh about pretty seriously and start
> telling them that the Oklahoma City bomber was a member of their group - or
> one of the 'non-recognized sects' (and there ARE those in ULC, you know).
>
> > Become ordained online! http://www.ulc.net/ordain.htm
>
> Yeah, it's SO easy now. It was much more difficult when one sent a buck in an
> envelope.... <G>
But the old cards were so much nicer than those forms they are using
now.
> Remember: this is all about the claim that McVeigh was a Mason - and there was
> NO indication from the fraud that McVeigh was a member of his (imaginary)
> non-recognized group rather than mainstream Freemasonry.
Or a Minister.
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
http://www.calodges.org/no442
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
ICQ #503060
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/CC/TW/O d--(++) s:,s++ a+ C+(++++) U--- P! L-- E!
W++ N+++ o-- K- w++++ O---- M--(+) V? PS+++ Y+ PGP--
t* 5 X- R* tv+++ b++ DI+++ D G e* h---- r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Remember: Your Masonry may be different from someone else's.
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 2001. All rights reserved.
Animal Style Gene Goldman.·.
wrote:
> In article <uig1jt88aq02vk3g6...@4ax.com>, Animal Style
> wrote:
> Re: PowerPoint
>
> > > No ... can it be in Word or text? I would enjoy to read what you have
> > > written! I have little doubt that it is of value to all.
> >
> > Let me see what I can do. I think I can save it as a Word doc. Or
> > else as html.
>
> Actually, you could use the 'Pack and Go' feature. Include the Power Point
> viewer (it's an option when you do the Pack & Go) when you do it and he'll
> be able to view them just as if he had PowerPoint. I do it all the time....
> (Zip your file before mailing to save on size.)
Excellent! Thanx.
>
> Have fun,
Always.
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
http://www.calodges.org/no442
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
ICQ #503060
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/CC/TW/O d--(++) s:,s++ a+ C+(++++) U--- P! L-- E!
W++ N+++ o-- K- w++++ O---- M--(+) V? PS+++ Y+ PGP--
t* 5 X- R* tv+++ b++ DI+++ D G e* h---- r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Remember: Your Masonry may be different from someone else's.
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 2001. All rights reserved.
Steve Leazer
to the most worshipful fireplace for me. -- sl
-- Steve Leazer
"Ed King" <edk...@masonicinfo.com> wrote in message
news:VA.0000206...@mint.net...
Chuck One
shriner building though."
It's called a Blue Lightning.
"." <yt...@mutilation.net> wrote in message
news:9gla86$ogp$2...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> JD Kukenbaker <jdkuke...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Many brothers have ridiculed and doubted my 33rd degree since it was not
> > conferred by their Scottish Rite bodies.
>
> > It is true that I am not a 33rd degree Mason in the Southern, Northern,
or
> > Canadian jurisdictions. I was invested with my 33rd degree by the Grand
Lodge
> > of Freemasons of North America (GLFNA). The GLFNA confers the 'Blue
Lodge'
> > degrees as well as the 4th thru 33rd degrees. In much the same way as a
few
> > lodges in Louisiana do.
>
> > I have been a Freemason for 33 years. It took me 3 years to be passed
from
> > Entered Apprentice to Fellowcraft and another 4 to be Raised to the
Sublime
> > Degree of Master Mason. Each degree require intense study and
qualification
> > before the members of my lodge.
>
> > The 4th to the 32nd degree took 10 more years. And 5 years later I was
invested
> > with the 33rd Degree. No, I did not forget about the KCCH. The GLFNA
does not
> > have the KCCH.
>
> Wow, in chicago theyll do em all in one night. Often. Too often. Nice
> shriner building though.
>
>
>
>
.
> "Wow, in chicago theyll do em all in one night. Often. Too often. Nice
> shriner building though."
> It's called a Blue Lightning.
Indeed. I think it makes a better drink, myself.
-----.
Ed King
> Well, I'm now Revered Akma as I got my confirmation of ordination e-mail. :)
> Gimme time to find my credit card, and I'll be a bishop or wizard or something
> ....as a prelude to becoming Saint Akma. (What the hell...sainthood and
> becoming a wizard for roughly $20? Why not. I'll just roll over the money
> I couldn't spend today on fishing due to rain into the Akma Saithood fund. ;)
<ROFL> You know, maybe we could chip in and get a Sainthood for Mike Restivo.
Perhaps that might cheer him up a bit.... After his sting with porno, it's not
likely that the Catholic Church is going to recognize him for sainthood and I doubt
even his one-man Martinist group will now either (unless they do it before he
dies). This might be a nice gesture for the poor lad! <G>
> Easiest road to Saithood I've come across yet. I'm not even going to
> have to return and preform miracles after I die. Ya just can't beat a
> deal like that!
Perhaps too we could help ol' Nick Kaffes (aka Kansan1225) in this way as well. He
too wants to be recognized as a messenger of God.... Hmmmmmm.... Great potential
here.
> Peace be upon you my son.
> Revered Akma ;)
And to you, my BROTHER! Always good to see you drop by.
Fraternally,
Ed King
http://www.masonicinfo.com -- Anti-Masonry: Points of View
Jim Bennie
> Hrm...well...there may be a cheap way to do it. In one of the e-mails they
> send you after filling out the forms it says if you ordain 15 other people,
> you get free sainthood.
Chris, we've have enough Saints around here, thanks.
Rick Irving
>
> edk...@masonicinfo.com (Ed King):
> Easiest road to Saithood I've come across yet. I'm not even going to
> have to return and preform miracles after I die. Ya just can't beat a
> deal like that!
Sure you can, join the Mormans.... Like the ULC , the mormons
feel
that the divine spark within, makes us -all- saints... We just
choose
to make that spark shine more, and less, than others...
Ed King
> Sure you can, join the Mormans <sic>....
> Like the ULC , the mormons feel that the divine spark within, makes
> us -all- saints... We just choose to make that spark shine more,
> and less, than others...
Well, I certainly don't want this discussion to turn into one which
disparages anyone's religious beliefs. ULC really started out as a way for
a guy in California to make a few extra bucks. If there's someone out
there who now has based a belief system around it, it would appear
improper for us to ridicule it but my thought is that 99.9% of those who
do belong to ULC aren't really following a set of religious beliefs as
much as 'making it up as they go along'.... Mormonism is something
ENTIRELY different, I'd submit.
Regards,
Ed King
http://www.masonicinfo.com -- Anti-Masonry: Points of View
Morpheos 1
>there who now has based a belief system around it, it would appear
>improper for us to ridicule it but my thought is that 99.9% of those who
>do belong to ULC aren't really following a set of religious beliefs as
>much as 'making it up as they
Just a side note; the ULC doesn't have any beliefs. It was set up so that
people like Wiccans, Druids, and members of other small religions that are not
recognized by the government could legally perform religious ceremonies such as
weddings, etc. So no, ULC members don't subscribe to any particular belief.
And they're obviously not (primarily) after money, cuz they ordain people for
free.
Sincerely and Fraternally,
Bro. Scot
Keith Fargo
> Mormonism is something
> ENTIRELY different, I'd submit.
I have to agree. Most Mormons are really not any different from Baptists or
Methodists or
whatever-other-organized-established-religious-group-you-want-to-insert-here
. They are not some fringe group with questionable motives. We have at least
one highly respected US Senator who is a Mormon.
Keith Fargo, MM
Monroe Lodge #22
Bloomington, IN
Rick Irving
of degrees, as he fought the state, the Internal Revenue Service and
the
federal courts. The public watched,listened and read of his trials
and
tribulations. And they responded -
his flock of mail order ministers grew
to more than 5 million worldwide.
akma wrote:
>
> edk...@masonicinfo.com (Ed King):
> > In article <3B37797D...@onecall.net>, Rick Irving wrote:
> >
> > > Sure you can, join the Mormans <sic>....
> > > Like the ULC , the mormons feel that the divine spark within, makes
> > > us -all- saints... We just choose to make that spark shine more,
> > > and less, than others...
> >
> > Well, I certainly don't want this discussion to turn into one which
> > disparages anyone's religious beliefs. ULC really started out as a way for
> > a guy in California to make a few extra bucks. If there's someone out
> > there who now has based a belief system around it, it would appear
> > improper for us to ridicule it but my thought is that 99.9% of those who
> > do belong to ULC aren't really following a set of religious beliefs as
> > much as 'making it up as they go along'.... Mormonism is something
> > ENTIRELY different, I'd submit.
>
> A quote on the ULC website by the founder durring a 60 Minutes interview
> adds a little perspective to the difference. ""Yeah, I'm a con man."
> That's from http://www.ulc.org/ulchq/tenthou.htm.
>
> akma