Schismatic Breakaway From SRIA
Sar Draconis
Masonic readers may be familiar with the SRIA - the Societas
Rosicruciana in Anglia, or the Masonic Rosicrucian Society in England,
(which interestingly, has active colleges in Canada.)
A recently appearing website has announced the pending formation of
a schismatic non-masonic breakaway of SRIA, admitting ladies and other
non-masons as well as men!!! :
http://www.orderroseandcross.org/
This new society is scheduled to "blast off" on June 30, so schedule
your
cosmic blinkers accordingly.
The founding grand officers are set forth in one of the tabs on the
website:
>
> ORC Officers
>
> Supreme Magus
> M.W.Fra. Michael Buckley, IX°
>
> Senior Deputy Supreme Magus
> R.W.Fra. John Goodrum, IX°
>
> Junior Deputy Supreme Magus
> R.W.Fra. Chris Oversby, IX°
>
> Grand Chaplain
> R.W.Fra. Alan Armstrong, IX°
>
> Grand Exponent
> R.W.Fra. Chic Cicero, IX°
>
> Grand Secretary
> R.W.Fra. Alan Blackstone, IX°
>
> Grand Treasurer
> R.W.Fra. John Goodrum, IX°
>
> Grand Archivist
> R.W.Fra. Robert Gilbert, IX°
>
> Grand Tutor
> R.W.Fra. Robert Gilbert, IX°
>
> Grand Webmaster
> R.W.Fra. Thomas Clarke, IX°
>
> Grand Preceptor
> R.W.Fra. Thomas Clarke, IX°
>
> Grand 1st Ancient
> R.W.Fra. Dave Winefield, IX°
>
> Grand 2nd Ancient
> R.W.Sor. Sandra Tabatha Cicero, VIII°
>
> Grand 3rd Ancient
> V.W.Fra. Nick Farrell, VI°
>
> Grand 4th Ancient
> V.W.Fra. Ross Agnew, VII°
>
> Grand Guardian
> V.W.Fra. David Williams, VI°
>
Leafing through a two or three year old directory of SRIA, I was able
to identify a few of the names:
>
RW Michael N. Buckley, IX degree WAS:
Senior Substitute Magus (i.e., next in line to the "Supreme Chief.")
>
John Goodrum,
WAS
Chief Adept, Western Counties and North Wales
>
Chris J. Overby
WAS
Chief Adept, North Western Counties
>
RA Gilbert
WAS
once Archivist of the High Council (if I recall correctly)
>
Thus, the founding impetus of this new org clearly comes from SRIA,
and presumably the authorities of the IX degree of SRIA (not to
mention
the authority of a past senior substitute magus!)
So what is the founding motif? It appears that they allege that the
SRIA has become less Christian than they desire!!! :
http://www.orderroseandcross.org/wordpress/about/ :
"The founders of the Order had all been senior and long-standing
members of a masonic Rosicrucian body that professed to be Christian
in nature and membership, but which had gradually slipped from
maintaining either Christian standards or a wholly Christian
membership. The slippage away from spiritual integrity gained
momentum, and when the head of that body drifted away from
Christianity, they said 'Enough is enough' and left, but more in
sorrow than in anger."
>
But interestingly enough, one of the founding officers of this new
would-be
Rosicrucian Society:
- - - Nick Farrell - - -
is a self-professed Jew (i.e., not Christian), and who amazingly
enough, has threatened acts of violence and mayhem online against
yours truly in times past, but which I will forgo quoting for the
present.
>
Your roving reporter,
Sar Draconis
dgr
Mister masterful mastered mastermason management is religiously choking
on ITs own spew.
One reaps what one sows. Reap freedom by sowing economic reform designed
to reap freedom for all.
innerjewel
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dear Applicant,
Thank you for your interest in becoming an official Troll
for the alt.freemasonry newsgroup. While your credentials
are most impressive and the examples of your work
(which we thank you for providing) do display considerable
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We will keep your on-line application on file for consideration
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Sincerely
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dgr
>> One reaps what one sows. Reap freedom by sowing economic reform designed
>> to reap freedom for all.
>>
>> www.planetization.org/soulutions.htmat planetization.org- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Dear Applicant,
>
> Thank you for your interest in becoming an official Troll
> for the alt.freemasonry newsgroup. While your credentials
> are most impressive and the examples of your work
> (which we thank you for providing) do display considerable
> effort on your part, we are sorry to inform you that we are
> seeking a candidate with a different skill-set for the position
> of Newsgroup Troll.
>
>
> We will keep your on-line application on file for consideration
> of any future openings. We will contact you if there are any
> future openings for which we deem you suitable.
>
>
> Thank you for your interest in alt.freemasonry.
>
>
> Sincerely
> The alt.freemasonry Human Resources Department.
and the machine burps
Sar Draconis
>
It should be pointed out that prior to the present announcement, the
SRICF was the only masonic rosicrucian society in the world that once
gave rise to a schismatic non-masonic breakaway, and one associated
with the names of Plummer and Purcell. The American breakaway took
place over 100 years ago. This raises the question: why has it taken
so many years for a parallel development to occur from the Anglia side
of the Atlantic?
Now regarding the cited allegations against the SRIA contained in the
website announcing the new group - - - I would take them with a grain
of salt if I were you. The SRICF does maintain a christian
requirement, and so does SRIA, to the best of my knowledge.
Sar Draconis
DAS
pa...@ix.netcom.com says...
> On Jun 2, 9:47?pm, Sar Draconis <p...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[...]
>
> Now regarding the cited allegations against the SRIA contained in the
> website announcing the new group - - - I would take them with a grain
> of salt if I were you. The SRICF does maintain a christian
> requirement, and so does SRIA, to the best of my knowledge.
>
> Sar Draconis
>
and/or a Buddhist.
--
Regards
David Simpson
"Men have two emotions: Hungry and Horny. If you see him
without an erection, make him a sandwich."
- Someone on soc.sexuality.general
Sar Draconis
> In article <1180853537.540947.287...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Buddhism throws a lot of light on the deepest doctrines of Qabala, and
hence, the teachings of Jesus. Therefore, it is not profitable for
the Qabalist or even the ordinary Christian to be wholly ignorant of
Buddhism.
According to Paul Case, Rosicrucianism is "Christian Qabala" (See
"True and Invisible Order of the Rosicrucians").
The Buddhist position is different from the atheist position. I do
not adhere to the latter (i.e., the atheist point of view.)
The difficulty with the atheist point of view is that it asserts that
there is definitely no God. However, it is impossible to verify such
a claim experimentally. God could be hiding behind the veils of
Existence, only waiting until you become Ready, so that He could
reveal Himself.
But to have faith in the Path, whether it be Buddhist, Christian,
Gnostic, Masonic, or other, is already to have been touched by the
Light of God.
Best regards,
Sar Draconis
Sar Draconis
Or it might be well to consider this qabalist saying transmitted by
Sam Avitol, through the familial lines of qabalists in Morocco:
I was a hidden jewel and I longed to be revealed. So I created the
world that I might be revealed.
Best regards,
Sar Draconis
DAS
pa...@ix.netcom.com says...
> On Jun 3, 10:34?am, Sar Draconis <p...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 2, 11:53 pm, DAS <farook...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article <1180853537.540947.287...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> > > p...@ix.netcom.com says...> On Jun 2, 9:47?pm, Sar Draconis <p...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > [...]
> >
> > > > Now regarding the cited allegations against the SRIA contained in the
> > > > website announcing the new group - - - I would take them with a grain
> > > > of salt if I were you. The SRICF does maintain a christian
> > > > requirement, and so does SRIA, to the best of my knowledge.
> >
> > > > Sar Draconis
> >
> > > Why are you interested? You are, after all, a self-proclaimed atheist
> > > and/or a Buddhist.
> >
> > > --
> > > Regards
> > > David Simpson
> > > "Men have two emotions: Hungry and Horny. If you see him
> > > without an erection, make him a sandwich."
> > > - Someone on soc.sexuality.general
> >
> > Buddhism throws a lot of light on the deepest doctrines of Qabala, and
> > the Qabalist or even the ordinary Christian to be wholly ignorant of
> > Buddhism.
> >
> > According to Paul Case, Rosicrucianism is "Christian Qabala" (See
> > "True and Invisible Order of the Rosicrucians").
> >
> > not adhere to the latter (i.e., the atheist point of view.)
> >
> > The difficulty with the atheist point of view is that it asserts that
> > a claim experimentally. ?God could be hiding behind the veils of
> > Existence, only waiting until you become Ready, so that He could
> > reveal Himself.
> >
> > But to have faith in the Path, whether it be Buddhist, Christian,
> > Gnostic, Masonic, or other, is already to have been touched by the
> > Light of God.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Sar Draconis
>
> Or it might be well to consider this qabalist saying transmitted by
> Sam Avitol, through the familial lines of qabalists in Morocco:
>
> I was a hidden jewel and I longed to be revealed. So I created the
> world that I might be revealed.
>
> Best regards,
> Sar Draconis
>
>
one.
--
ducde...@yahoo.com
The ORC is seen in the photos here: http://www.yorkrite.org/MasonicWeek/msricf/
http://www.yorkrite.org/MasonicWeek/msricf/020d.jpg
In Love,
+Duc
Sar Draconis
Now as I recall, the known sequence of events was something like the
following:
Three years ago, Andrew Stephenson was the Supreme Magus of SRIA.
R.W.Fra. Michael Buckley, IX was the Senior Substitute Magus of SRIA.
Simultaneously, Andrew Stephenson (an occult associate of Desmond
Bourke) was also the head of the revived Waite Order, or the
Fellowship of the Rosy Cross, which conducted sessions in a Loft
Temple located in his London abode; additionally, quarterly meetings
of another Masonic group, the August Order of Light Garuda Temple no.
2 were held at the same location. (For more information on the
revived Waite Order, please see Christopher MacIntosh's book on the
Rosicrucians.) John Paternoster (a past poster in alt.magick) was on
High Council, but held a somewhat lower postion down the totem pole.
There were those who then thought that at some point SRIA would
declare itself non-masonic, begin initiating women, and invade the
territory of the U.S.A. by opening a College on the American side of
the border near Niagra Falls. This never occured.
Instead, when Andrew Stephenson left office as Supreme Magus, he was
not succeeded by Michael Buckley as Supreme Magus, but instead, John
Paternoster was elected to office as Supreme Magus.
John Paternoster, a Master Mason in good standing under UGLE, is also
the Warden (or Chief) of the Fraternity of the Inner Light, a society
founded by Dion Fortune. It is thought that his arrival in the latter
office represented the accession of the Christian faction within the
SIL (Society of the Inner Light): Gareth Knight, a well known
Christian occultist (and co-founder of SOL, or Servants of the Light)
returns to SIL with the accession of the Christian faction.
Secondly, Michael Buckley does NOT become Supreme Magus of SRIA:
instead, he acts with others to formulate a non-masonic schismatic
breakaway of SRIA, and leveling charges of "departure from
Christianity" against SRIA and its chiefs. May I say that it is clear
from the evidence presented here shows that this charge against John
Paternoster has no foundation whatsoever: the SRIA maintains its
trinitarian Christian requirement, following SRIA traditions just as
it always has. Additionally, SIL which John Paternoster presently
heads, also shows a marked Christian affiliation.
I would expect that this new group also plans to form Colleges within
the U.S.A. as well as England, thus invading the territory of SRICF, a
plan which might have been undertaken by SRIA itself had Buckley
succeeded in becoming Supreme Magus ! ! !
The Anglo-Israeli theology of the new organization is a curious and
interesting twist on the esoteric movements coming out of UK of late,
this one directly inspired by internal SRIA politics.
Best regards,
Sar Draconis
ducde...@yahoo.com
On Jun 4, 11:23 pm, Sar Draconis <p...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> I would expect that this new group also plans to form Colleges within
> the U.S.A. as well as England, thus invading the territory of SRICF, a
> plan which might have been undertaken bySRIAitself had Buckley
> succeeded in becoming Supreme Magus ! ! !
>
> The Anglo-Israeli theology of the new organization is a curious and
> interesting twist on the esoteric movements coming out of UK of late,
> this one directly inspired by internalSRIApolitics.
>
> Best regards,
> Sar Draconis
Dear Sir,
After emailing the ORC, the person whom has contacted me via telephone
from the ORC in England is himself a black man of African ancestry who
as a college professor and old friend of Dr. Ivan Van Sertima...would
hardly be caught up with a bunch of Aryans waiting on some Welsh Hippy
to come down out of the sky. I dont know if you are spreading
misinformation on purpose or simply repeating falsehoods, but I must
state that you are wrong here. I wrote to the Grand Secretary who
assures me that this nonsense is generated by enemies of Christ's
Work. Also, I wonder on what grounds you are substantiating your
claim that the Supreme Magus of the ORC would ever go into the
territory of the SRICF. Apparently you missed Washington DC when the
SRICF gave the ORC a Charter? But no matter, as the ORC website
proclaims that they do not have a Masonic requirement.
In Love,
+Duc
Sar Draconis
>
> Dear Sir,
> Apparently you missed Washington DC when the
> SRICF gave the ORC a Charter?
Was it given for real or just for comic relief?
Sar Draconis ?
> In Love,
>
> +Duc
Muse
"innerjewel" <fiat...@hotmail.com> wrote
>Dear Applicant...
[snipped repeated info]
Brainwashed Scientologist
___________________________________________________
http://www.antimasonicinfo.com/
The Revolution is on
9/11 was an Inside Job
teletourgos
Duc and others
The only interesting twist here is that SAR Draconis passed the
information regarding the OR+C's charter onto his ally David Griffin
of
the HOGD A+O.
Griffin then posted, or caused to be posted, a false manifesto for
the
OR+C on alt.magick and other groups where the Aryan stuff was
included.
We know this because David has this unusual thing where he always
spells Societas with an 'a', thus Soci-A-tas. It's his calling card,
more or less. The false manifesto has this spelling; I have emails
sent from Griffin's account where that spelling is used.
SAR is thus commenting on an Anglo-Israeli theology that he already
knows is false.
To wit, I think you can safely conclude SAR Draconis ( Robert Word) is
spreading misinformation on purpose.
Some background.
OR+C is, potentially at least, a major entrant into
the Rosicrucian field. It was bestowed a lineage from SRICF and
'esoteric transmissions' afforded by many of the SRIA's leading
lights. Its website already exhibits scholarly essays on
Rosicrucianism and other esoteric topics. It has stepped out of the
SRIA's restrictive masonic bounds to offer Rosicrucian teaching to non-
masons, most especially women.
SAR Draconis is an ally of David Griffin. Griffin's order, the HOGD A
+O has taken a number of major knocks recently.
Some are to do with lack of lineage, a number of defections and
perhaps most poignantly, the recent settlement of a lawsuit on less
than favourable terms with OR+C member Chic Cicero.
The relevant point of the settlement appears to be that Griffin can
no
longer call his order the 'Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn' in the
US without a qualifier.
While this would seem trivial to anyone, Griffin once published an
essay called 'Confusion on the Internet: Will the Real Golden Dawn
Please Stand Up' where David nominated as one of the landmarks of an
'authentic' Golden Dawn order that such an order should have 'legal
access to the trademark/copyright name 'Golden Dawn'.
As a result of the legal settlement with OR+C member Cicero, David
does not appear to have legal access to this name now, he seems to
have restricted access and can only use the GD name with a qualifier,
such as 'HOGD A+O' in the USA - the name he now uses.
This raises the interesting dilemma that judged by his own standard,
David's order may no longer be an authentic Golden Dawn order!
Because of this situation, Robert and David feel threatened by OR+C;
hence the attempt at spreading misinformation we see here.
Jean
DAS
telet...@yahoo.co.uk says...
>
> TT:
>
> Duc and others
>
> The only interesting twist here is that SAR Draconis passed the
> the HOGD A+O.
>
> Griffin then posted, or caused to be posted, a false manifesto for the
> included.
>
> We know this because David has this unusual thing where he always
> spells Societas with an 'a', thus Soci-A-tas. It's his calling card,
> more or less. The false manifesto has this spelling; I have emails
> sent from Griffin's account where that spelling is used.
>
> SAR is thus commenting on an Anglo-Israeli theology that he already
> knows is false.
>
> misinformation on purpose.
>
This seems to be about par for the course where SAR DRACONIS is
concerned.
[...]
alex...@yahoo.com
The above was posted by Maria Babwahsing (Teletourgos),
the Imperatrix of the Soc. Ros. in America writing under a
pseudonym, a competing Rosicrucian group with its own sordid history,
and contains deliberate disinformation about a number of people
and organizations.
The questions remain why the OR+C is defaming the Soc. Ros.
in Anglia on their website as "not christian enough", why they
chose colors like on the Nazi flag for their website, and why their
rose cross looks like a Christian swastika.!
http://www.orderroseandcross.org/
It would appear as though this is schismatic group of fundamentalist
Christians (or worse) that broke off from Soc. Ros. in Anglia,
that for some odd reasons feel that they need to defame the Supreme
Magus of the Soc. Ros. in Anglia to justify their schismatic behavior.
It should be noted that the Chic Cicero mentioned by Teletourgos,
a major officer of the OR+C, is a former strip club owner who has
a long history of arrests for violent offences, including domestic
violence and an outstanding firearms charge.
One wonders what wife beating and strippers have to do with Christian
Rosicrucians that defame the Soc. Ros. in Anglia on a
website that looks like a Nazi flag with a Christian swastika!
teletourgos
I think you can safely conclude that Robert Word is spreading
> > misinformation on purpose.
>
> This seems to be about par for the course where SAR DRACONIS is
> concerned.
>
> [...]
>
> --
> Regards
> David Simpson
I wonder why he does it? If the road behind me was strewn with that
many faux-historical wrecks that had come-a-cropper, I'd find another
hobby.
The responses of the various frauds to the OR+C's debut puts me in
mind of the nasty looks swapped by drag queens when a real lady comes
into the bar.
Funny though, I can't quite see SAR in a tutu.
Jean
DAS
telet...@yahoo.co.uk says...
>
> I think you can safely conclude that Robert Word is spreading
> > > misinformation on purpose.
> >
> > This seems to be about par for the course where SAR DRACONIS is
> > concerned.
>
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > --
> > Regards
> > David Simpson
>
>
> I wonder why he does it? If the road behind me was strewn with that
> many faux-historical wrecks that had come-a-cropper, I'd find another
> hobby.
>
what he could possibly find of interest in a Christian, possibly neocon,
organisation.
> The responses of the various frauds to the OR+C's debut puts me in
> mind of the nasty looks swapped by drag queens when a real lady comes
> into the bar.
>
> Funny though, I can't quite see SAR in a tutu.
>
ROFL. As a Mason he would wear an apron.
innerjewel
Christianity for that matter? Can anyone explain this?
alex...@yahoo.com
> What does Racial Karma have to do with Rosicrucian philosophy or
> Christianity for that matter? Can anyone explain this?
A number of small, extremely conservative Fundamentalist Christian
denominations have accepted Anglo-Israelism, and grafted it to
racist,
sexist, anti-communist and homophobic beliefs. They view the Jewish
people as descendants of Satan. Anglo-Israelism (a.k.a. British-
Israelism)
is theological belief that the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Scandinavian,
Germanic
and associated cultures are the racial descendents of the tribes of
Israel.
Thus, by extension, Americans and Canadians, are composed of the
descendents of the ancient Israelites of the Hebrew Scriptures
(Old Testament).
These notions appear to be central in the "Manifesto" of the
"Order of the Rose and Cross." There presently exists a rumor,
however,
that both the Manifesto and the Website of the Order of the Rose and
Cross
are part of an elaborate hoax. The website states that the OR+C admits
only
Trinitarian Christians (this means no Muslims, Jews, or even Greek or
Orthodox Christians). This in itself might not necessarily indicate
right wing
Fundamentalism. However, the website also states that the OR+C broke
away from another "Christians only" Rosicrucian group in Britain
because the
former was not "Christian" enough. This strongly speaks for a
extremely radical
Christian Fundamentalism in the "Order of the Rose and Cross," that
is,
if the whole thing is not in actuality an elaborate hoax.
The OR+C website may be viewed at:
http://www.orderroseandcross.org/
innerjewel
matter what their particular slant on it was. My impression was that
you don't join a Rosicrucian Order, you become a Rosicrucian. I guess
bigots come in all shapes and sizes. I still look forward to my
journey into the Rosicrucian mysteries. G-d bless all of you.
alex...@yahoo.com
The following is taken directly from the conclusion
of a paper taken directly from the OR+C website entitled
Golden Dawn or Gotterdamerung?
by Frater I.D.V.A.
http://www.orderroseandcross.org/
> How can we best preserve the Western Hermetic Tradition
> for the future? I truly believe that initiatic Orders analogous to
> the Golden Dawn are still needed and that their role is crucial in
> preserving our specifically western esoteric spirituality. We must
> also recognise that the Tradition which represents that spirituality
faces real threats, both from the growth of religious indifference
> and from the determined efforts of its spiritual enemies to capitalise
> on such indifference, and to undermine the tradition by perverting
> its ethos and substituting darker and avowedly anti-Christian goals.
> If we are true to our Rosicrucian principles then we must recognise
> and strive against those threats."
1. Do we not see the Golden Dawn perverted here into
extremist Christian Fundamentalism?
2. Who are these mysterious "spiritual enemies?"
3. What does the OR+C mean by striving against the "threats
posed by spiritual enemies striving to undermine the "Tradition"
by perverting its ethos and substituting darker and avowedly
anti-Christian goals?"
4. Do we not see here the same scapegoating mentality so prevalent
in the radical fundamentalism of Christian Identity and British-
Israelite
groups who routinely use such flowery language to sell their veiled
racism? The white Christian Identity believers see themselves as
God's agents battling what they see as the forces of evil: Jews and
Muslims.
Trevor Walker
to deliberately spread false information about the Hermetic Order of
the Golden Dawn and the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega, its
lineal affiliations, its temples, and its legal rights. First of
all,
the Alpha et Omega and it s Chief Adept, David Griffin, have nothing
to do with the OR+C, or its alleged manifesto or website.
Regarding trademarks, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the
outer order of the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega® is the sole
and exclusive owner of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn®
trademark in the European Union (OHIM reg. 000063925) as well as of
The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn International® trademark in
Canada (CIPO Reg. TMA510387). Additionally, our order recently
settled litigation victoriously preserving our perpetual and
irrevocable right to use the name of our outer order, the Hermetic
Order of the Golden Dawn, without further interference in the USA.
During the entire course of the aforementioned litigation, our order
went to great lengths to make it clearly understood that, for the
Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega, the Hermetic Order of the
Golden
Dawn is nothing more than our First or Outer Order, that is to say
our "Kindergarden" for magickal beginners. This is because the Alpha
et Omega does not wish to be confused with the plethora of groups
using the words "Golden Dawn" in their names, yet offering their
students little or nothing more than the well known, original
H.O.G.D. and Stella Matutina material published by Crowley and
Regardie.
The Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega has fought hard and achieved
victory in preserving our right to use the name of our outer order,
the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, without interference in the
USA. The Alpha et Omega nonetheless distinguishes itself with its
uniquely complete, Three Order system of advanced, unpublished
Hermetic and Rosicrucian magick and alchemy, from the plethora of
groups calling themselves "Golden Dawn," yet leading little or
nowhere beyond well known, published material. Indeed, where others
leave off, the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega just begins!
H. Frater L.V.S. (Trevor Walker)
Hierophant.
Temple of Ma'at, No. 19.
London, U.K.
Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn®,
outer order of the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega®.
alex...@yahoo.com
what appeared to be an official statement denying any racism
in the OR+C. Now we have you trolling again, yet this time
pretending not to know what is going on in that order, except
that Chic and Tabatha Cicero as well as certain "unnamed
others" are not really members of that order. On what basis
do you make that statement? Who are you, Mr. anonymous
troll? I notice that you post from Sofiya, Bulgaria. Is that not
where yet another alleged member of the OR+C, Nick Farrell,
lives? Are you Nick Farrell and are your statements made as a
member of the OR+C?
In any case, it is obvious that any statements that you make about
the OR+C can not be believed, since first you posted pretending
to have inside knowledge of the inner workings of that order, and
now you post pretending to have no knowledge of that order yet
knowledge of the secret memberships or lack thereof of Chic and
Tabatha Cicero. Are you Chic Cicero, or on what basis do you
make that statement?
Until official disclaimers are published by the Cicero's
we must assume that the list published on the website was
accurate. By all appearances, the OR+C is now attempting
to engage in spin control now that the racist and extreme
fundamentalist nature of that organization has been
exposed. It will be impossible for the OR+C to simply
modify the site now, however, since many people already
download its apparently racist content. Any sanitation
attempt at this juncture will tend merely to confirm
what they are obviously now attempting to cover up.
One must, of course, ask if Jews and Muslims are
also prohibited in the Rosicrucian Second Order of Chic &
Tabatha Cicero's, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn,
since the Ciceros apparently subscribe to a radically
fundamentalist, if not actually racist, "Christians
only" view of Rosicrucianism.
On Jun 7, 8:19 am, magus...@gmail.com wrote:
> I don't who posted this list of names but I know for a fact that Chic
> and Tabatha Cicero are not members of this group. There are a couple
> of others who are on this list who are not members either.
> I notice that the list and the offending articles are not on that
> website any more
> > GRAND OFFICERS:
>
> > Supreme Magus: M.W.Fra. Michael Buckley, IX°
>
> > Senior Deputy Supreme Magus: R.W.Fra. John Goodrum, IX°
>
> > Junior Deputy Supreme Magus: R.W.Fra. Chris Oversby, IX°
>
> > Grand Chaplain: R.W.Fra. Alan Armstrong, IX°
>
> > Grand Exponent: R.W.Fra. Charles Chic Cicero, IX°
>
> > Grand Secretary: R.W.Fra. Alan Blackstone, IX°
>
> > Grand Treasurer: R.W.Fra. John Goodrum, IX°
>
> > Grand Archivist: R.W.Fra. Robert Gilbert, IX°
>
> > Grand Tutor: R.W.Fra. Robert Gilbert, IX°
>
> > Grand Webmaster: R.W.Fra. Thomas Clarke, IX°
>
> > Grand Preceptor: R.W.Fra. Thomas Clarke, IX°
>
> > Grand 1st Ancient: R.W.Fra. Dave Winefield, IX°
>
> > Grand 2nd Ancient: R.W.Sor. Sandra Tabatha Cicero, VIII°
>
> > Grand 3rd Ancient: V.W.Fra. Nick Farrell, VI°
>
> > Grand 4th Ancient: V.W.Fra. Ross Agnew, VII°
>
> > Grand Guardian: V.W.Fra. David Williams, VI°
Sar Draconis
It should be noted that recently (and following historical comments
and analysis by yours truly) the ORC has password protected its
manifesto, so that the offending words contained therein and
unjustifiably defaming SRIA and the Warden of SIL can no longer be
seen without access to password. We can be pleased that the ORC has
"seen the light" and accepted our criticism in this regard (which may
I add, was intended to be "constructive criticism.") It speaks well
for the ORC that they can accept public criticism from yours truly and
then act quickly to "mend their ways."
We also send them our compliments on receiving Charter from SRICF.
There is some more intesting information on the new ORC SM at this
website:
http://www.canonbury.ac.uk/programme.htm
"The Development of Modern Martinism
Michael Buckley, studied Constitutional Law and Economics, and also
had a successful career as an Underwriting Member of Lloyds Insurance
Brokerage Company. He is a member of Lloyds Lodge N°5673 and its
associated Royal Arch Chapter, and later became involved within the
Esoteric & Philosophical Orders of enlightenment that are based on
Rosicrucianism. Michael is a founder, and Supreme Magus, of The Order
of the Rose and Cross. His interest in the more esoteric side of
Freemasonry led him into the Martinist Orders, and he is now the Grand
Master of The Martinist Order of Unknown Philosophers and The Hermetic
Order of Martinists. Both are based on the philosophical teachings of
Louis Claude de Saint Martin, which advocate the re-integration of the
individual with the mystic Christ, and they follow the twin pillars of
Rosicrucian teachings and the mystical path of Martinism. Michael's
published papers in the field of Esoteric Masonry reflect this path.
Modern Martinism emerged in late 19th century France, and was created,
by the French occultist Papus [Gérard Encausse]. In its essence
Martinism reflects the philosophy and esoteric Christian mysticism of
Louis Claude de Saint-Martin, the disciple of the 18th century
freemason and theurgist, Martines de Pasqually. Saint- Martin's
philosophy owed much to Pasqually's system, which was preserved for
posterity by his successor J.B. Willermoz. His blending of Saint-
Martin's thought with High Grade Freemasonry, and with Pasqually's
magico-mystical approach, ensured the survival of Martinist theory and
practice into the next century. The genius of Papus lay in his ability
to create a new and radically different ceremonial system of three
degrees, which laid the foundations of a worldwide movement of
speculative Christian esotericism presented in ritual form. Michael
Buckley explains the philosophical and ritual structure of modern
Martinism, outlines its history, and sets the various Martinist Orders
in the context of the French Neo-Gnostic and Cathar Churches. "
As head of the Hermetic Martinist Order, Michael Buckley would have
been an associate of Desmond Bourke, who was a co-founder of this
Order, and which obtained Martinist filiation under the direct
auspices of the Britannic Grand Lodge of Ordre Martiniste et
Synarchique (i.e., Martinist Order and Synarchy). As such, Buckley
was also probably well acquainted with Sar Gulion (now deceased.)
Best regards,
Sar Draconis
Sar Draconis
It should be noted that recently (and following historical comments
and analysis by yours truly) the ORC has password protected its
manifesto, so that the offending words contained therein and
unjustifiably defaming SRIA and the Warden of SIL can no longer be
seen without access to password. We can be pleased that the ORC has
"seen the light" and accepted our criticism in this regard (which may
I add, was intended to be "constructive criticism.") It speaks well
for the ORC that they can accept public criticism from yours truly and
then act quickly to "mend their ways."
http://www.canonbury.ac.uk/programme.htm
Best regards,
Sar Draconis
> Sar Draconis- Hide quoted text -
alex...@yahoo.com
prominently on a list of the "Grand Officers" of a new Order
calling itself the "Order of the Rose and Cross." On the same
website, the OR+C has made it clear that it has a segregationist
view of Rosicrucianism. The O+RC, for example, does not admit
either Muslims or Jews as Rosicrucians. Moreover, on the
same website, long time Cicero friend R.A. Gilbert, writing under
his OR+C order name, Frater I.D.V.A, wrote:
> How can we best preserve the Western Hermetic Tradition
> for the future? I truly believe that initiatic Orders analogous to
> the Golden Dawn are still needed and that their role is crucial in
> preserving our specifically western esoteric spirituality. We must
> also recognise that the Tradition which represents that spirituality
faces real threats, both from the growth of religious indifference
> and from the determined efforts of its spiritual enemies to capitalise
> on such indifference, and to undermine the tradition by perverting
> its ethos and substituting darker and avowedly anti-Christian goals.
> If we are true to our Rosicrucian principles then we must recognise
> and strive against those threats."
It is obvious, that R.A. Gilbert is here espousing a segregationist,
"Christans only" view of Rosicrucianism. This naturally raises several
important questions:
1. Do we see the Golden Dawn perverted here into
extreme Christian Fundamentalism or is Mr. Gilbert
merely advocating a segregationist view of Rosicrucianism?
2. Do Chic and Tabatha Cicero share Mr. Gilbert's segregationist
views regarding the Rosicrucian tradition?
3. Is the Rosicrucian Second Order (R.R.etA.C.) of Chic and Tabatha
Cicero's HOGD segregationist?
4. Does the Cicero R.R.et A.C. admit Jews and Muslims?
5. If so, then why do Chic and Tabatha Cicero belong to a
segregationist Rosicrucian order?
Moreover:
6. Who are these mysterious "spiritual enemies" to whom
R.A. Gilbert refers in his article?
7. What does Mr. Gilbert mean by striving against the "threats
posed by spiritual enemies striving to undermine the "Tradition"
by perverting its ethos and substituting darker and avowedly
anti-Christian goals?"
8. Do we not see here the same scapegoating mentality so prevalent
in the radical fundamentalism of Christian Identity and British-
Israelite
groups who routinely use such flowery language to sell their veiled
racism? Christian Identity believers see themselves as
God's agents battling what they see as the forces of evil: Jews and
Muslims.
9. Do Chic and Tabatha Cicero share R.A. Gilbert's apparently
racist views regarding the Rosicrucian tradition?
10. Finally, in the wake of public exposure, why is the OR+C
attempting to prevent further public scrutiny, by password
protecting embarrassing areas of its website?
magu...@gmail.com
I never hid the name but I am so pleased that you are thinking about
me and are prepared to devote time to trying to find my IP address.
If you had asked I would have told you.
Anyway because it is me at least you can believe then that the Ciceros
are not involved in the ORC so all your efforts to smear that
organisation because of their involvement were a waste of time. ORC
has been planned for many years and the Cicero's involvement with ORC
was in the very early days. Later a list, and indeed the website, was
designed. Goodness knows why that list appeared on the site. Many of
the people involved during that time are not involved now and many of
the policies are very different.
I am puzzled however why you seem to see Nazis everywhere. The black
cross is similar to the cross off suffering and the Rose of Sharon and
is in fact a IX degree SRIA badge. It does not even look like a
swastika unless you have been looking at ink blots in a funny way
again.
ORCs policy on admission is considerably wider than the SRIA (which
you defend) in that it is open to all races and sexes. The ORC was
originally formed by a group of people who felt that SRIA was too
conservative and masonic. As a result its teaching was being lost in
a sea of titles and masonic shin-digs. It was also backward because
it did not admit women. In the ORC members post papers which are up
for debate and comment, one such issue dear to one member's heart is
the Christian nature of Rosicrucianism. It is his view and I do not
agree with it. Neither do some others, nor do we have too. But it is
open for debate like many things in ORC.
The work was being done on forming this order long before the
appointment of the current SRIA Magus. The rituals are not SRIA and
this is not a schism, it is an entirely different Order with lineages
from other Rosicrucian groups.
Discrimination on the basis of race is a terrible thing David and one
which any viable Rosicrucian Order could not tolerate.
I should add that I am not the spokesman for the ORCs just someone who
was involved with its development. Neither am I intending to post
anything more on the alt groups on this matter.
Now I really hope you are not going to be tiresome and command your
two little friends (I notice that you have dusted off Robert again
too) to send lots of silly posts because I am not going to reply to
any of them. I am letting you get on with your groups so the least
you can do is let me get on with mine.
Nick Farrell
PS (Maria is not Jean... Maria has not been online for months.)
PPS ( I do not know who he is either)
PPS (It is certainly not Mike Magee)
xtrraswe...@yahoo.com
> On Jun 7, 12:20 pm, Trevor Walker <HFrater...@Yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Please note that Teletourgos . . .
>
> (extensive Trevor-tosh snipped)
>
> > H. Frater L.V.S. (Trevor Walker)
> > Hierophant.
> > Temple of Ma'at, No. 19.
> > London, U.K.
> > Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn®,
> > outer order of the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega®.
>
>
> To those inclined to give any credence to Trevor Walker, the official
> mouthpiece of the Griffin Golden Dawn order, I suggest viewing the
> linked posting detailing some of his utterances over the years, in
> his
> capacity as an official representative of the Griffin GD order.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.magick/browse_frm/thread/9d4293358...
>
> Mr Walker stated not three days ago (again as the Griffin Golden
> Dawn's official representative) that his order disapproved of
> discrimination.
>
> Obviously this does not include sexual discrimination or sexual
> harassment where the Order deems it necessary to further their
> interests.
>
> One is to hope Mr Walker resigns before he is pushed.
>
> Jean Valiente
You are the sickest misrepresentation troll on the internet.
First off, the link you give does not work. Secondly, let us
put this in pesepective. Yeterday someone posted
a photo of David Griffin's Mother's house,
posting under her name (obvioulsly obtained from court records)
and saying that the house is a brothel ane welcoming
walk-up clients?
You then claimed that this was really done by pro-Griffin
trolls pretending to attack him and his order in order to
garner sympathy? You really are one sick piece of work.
That you do not condemn catagorically such behaviour
is sick enough. That you blame such on the victim of such a
crime proves how sick you really are.
That you even accuse the Hierophant of Griffiin's UK
temple of being behind it shows how depraved you are.
I condemn both what the trolls did to Griffin's Mother and to
Cicero's wife. That you should not do so is an outrage and
practically proves that you are behind it in itself.
By your definition, you must be secretly a pro-Griffin
troll attacking his order to garner sympathy.
You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.
I believe that you are personally responsible
for that website.
Blue_Beard
"innerjewel" <fiat...@hotmail.com> wrote
This seems to be an old schism resurfacing again. Of course, not all
Rosicrucian groups are the same, and there are many. In my opinion, it
highlights the importance of Freemasonry inculcating Morality first before
anything else.
-ramon
alex...@yahoo.com
Dear Mr. Magus, Farrell or whatever you wish to be called:
You have no credibility left regarding the OR+C. First of all,
your name appears as well as that of the Ciceros on the
original list that was published both on the website as well
as on your original anynomous post. Secondly, you posted
anonymously and only later identified yourself after your
IP address was traced. Moreover, in your initial post,
you did not dispute your membership, but rather merely
defended the order against allegations of racism. If you were
telling the truth and neither you or the Ciceros are involved in
the OR+C, you would have stated this clearly at that time.
You did not. Moreover, the "sanitized" list of officers is truncated
and does not show other individuals in the places occupied by
yourself, the Ciceros, and Mr. Gilbert.
This all clearly indicates that you are lying now.
Why? Because the other order that you belong to, Chic
Cicero's Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn has been
publicly associated with the OR+C. There are several
reasons for both you and the Cicero's to wish to hide their
involvement in the OR+C. Firstly, it is clear that the OR+C
has a segregationist attitude towards the Rosicrucian tradition.
They allow neither Jews nor Muslims as members. Moreover,
even if the manifesto turns out to be a fake, there still remain
numerous things that cause the OR+C to appear to have racist
overtones. Firstly, there is their objection that the SRIA was
not "Christian" enough for them. This at least indicates a certain
extremely right wing Fundamentalism. More damning, however,
is the conclusion of R.A. Gilbert's paper, "Golden Dawn or
Gotterdammerung", where writing under his OR+C order name,
Frater I.D.V.A, Gilbert wrote:
> How can we best preserve the Western Hermetic Tradition
> for the future? I truly believe that initiatic Orders analogous to
> the Golden Dawn are still needed and that their role is crucial in
> preserving our specifically western esoteric spirituality. We must
> also recognise that the Tradition which represents that spirituality
faces real threats, both from the growth of religious indifference
> and from the determined efforts of its spiritual enemies to capitalise
> on such indifference, and to undermine the tradition by perverting
> its ethos and substituting darker and avowedly anti-Christian goals.
> If we are true to our Rosicrucian principles then we must recognise
> and strive against those threats."
It is obvious, that R.A. Gilbert is here espousing a segregationist,
"Christans only" view of Rosicrucianism here and apparently a
racist one as well, referring to some "anti-Christian" (Jewish?)
threat. It is understandable that you and the Cicero's should
wish to hide your involvement in the O+RC, since these things
are the absolute antithesis of the humanitarian Hermeticism of
the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
Instead of publishing false denials regarding your involvement
in the OR+C, as well as that of R.A. Gilbert, or of Chic or
Tabatha Cicero, I would strongly suggest that instead
you ask Mr. Gilbert to explain the above conclusion to the
paper that he wrote that remains published on the OR+C
website, with its quite obvious racist and Fundamentalist
overtones.
I consider what both you, Mr. Gilbert, the Ciceros,
and the OR+C are engaged in, is
nothing more than spin control, after your
segregationist, racist, and Fundamentalist Christian
views of the Golden Dawn have been exposed.
BrG...@gmail.com
> This seems to be an old schism resurfacing again. Of course, not all
> Rosicrucian groups are the same, and there are many. In my opinion, it
> highlights the importance of Freemasonry inculcating Morality first before
> anything else.
No, it isn't a schism of any age. It is yet another episode in a long-
standing urinating competition.
Sar Draconis
> The ORC is seen in the photos here: http://www.yorkrite.org/MasonicWeek/msricf/
>
> http://www.yorkrite.org/MasonicWeek/msricf/020d.jpg
>
> In Love,
>
> +Duc
The planetary banners appear to be in a Sepherothic Order, with the
Solar one moved away from the center for convenience. This of course
is completely different from the SRIA vault arrangement, which mimics
the GD except for the colors.
Sar Draconis
Sar Draconis
>
> Especially since he claims to be a Buddhist and an Atheist. >
> Regards
> David Simpson
The martyrs of ancient Christendom were also falsely accused of
atheism, even while testifying of their faith in Christ.
St. Apanoub (Abba Nob) was martyred. He was born in the city of
Nehisa (District of Talkha) in Egypt. His parents were pure and
merciful and reared him in the fear of God. When Diocletian incited
the persecution against the Christians, St. Apanoub was twelve years
old, and he desired to shed his blood for the Name of Christ.
One day he went to the church, and he heard the priest teaching the
believers, strengthening them in the Faith, warning them from
worshipping the idols, and encouraging them to deliver themselves over
to death for the sake of the Lord Christ. He returned to his house,
and set before him all that his father had left him of gold, silver,
and apparels, and told himself that it is written, "The world is
passing away, and the lust of it." (I John 2:17). Straightway he rose
up, and gave all his money to the poor and needy,then went to
Samanoud, walking along the river bank. He confessed the Name of the
Lord Christ before Lucianus the governer, who tortured him severely.
Then he hung him up upon the mast of his ship head downwards. The
governor sat down to eat and to drink, and the vessel which was in his
hand became a stone. The angel of the Lord came down from heaven,
released the saint, and wiped up the blood that was running down from
his nose and mouth. The governor and his soldiers were greatly
disturbed. Strong winds blew, that made the ship to sail fast to
Athribis. When they arrived, the soldiers unfastened their belts, and
cast them before the governor, then confessed the Lord Christ and they
received the crown of martyrdom.
The governor of Athribis tortured St. Apanoub (Abba Nob) severely,
then sent him to the city of Alexandria. There, he was tortured until
he delivered up his pure soul and received the crown of martyrdom.
St. Julius El-Akfahsi was present; he wrote the biography of St.
Apanoub, took his body and sent it with some of his men to his
hometown Nehisa.
Many churches werre built in his name. Many signs and miricles were
manifested from his body which is now located in his church in the
city of Samnanoud.
May his prayers be with us. Amen.
Today the gentle Christian prays, but where stands the mighty Rome?
Sar Draconis
dei...@onetel.com
This appears to be a fair and objective account of what is happening
with this offshoot of Quatuor Coronati Lodge.
Before the last election for Supreme Magus of the SRIA, Trevor Stewart
was quite open that if the election went "the wrong way" there would
be many resignations. (And it came to pass). Ths the takeover of SRIA
by the self opinionated members of QCCC failed. Nothing to do with
'black magic' at the top of the organisation, more a case of sour
grapes and petulance. The archivist is of interest. He makes a play
about the 'wrong sort' of Christians, but in his talks, he openly
condemns the admission of Roman Catholics into the order. Presumably
he would be happier in Northern Ireland as he appears to hold the same
views as Johnny (mad dog) Adair.
dei...@onetel.com
Sars Draconis stands out from most other contributions to this website
by his objectivity and absence of abuse. During his brief
(fortunately) sojourn as Chief Adept, Trevor Stewart stated at a
college meeting in Sept 2005, that if the 'wrong outcome' of the
forthcoming election for Supreme Magus occurred, then a number of
resignations would ensue. He later claimed to me at a Masonic meeting,
that the reason for the resignations was the practice of 'black magic'
at the top of SRIA. Nothing to do with a power struggle, sour grapes
and a refusal to accept democratic selection, of course.
A similar confusion arises with our happy and cheerful archivist Bob
Gilbert. He claims that the SRIA is not sufficiently 'Trinitarian' but
omits to inform us how he measures degrees of 'trinitarianism'. At the
same time I have heard him, during the course of one of his lectures,
state that Roman Catholics should be excluded from the society. As an
archivist, he should know, that without the Catholic Church, the
Christian Trinity would have long faded.