Light Seeker
KIV11
one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his questions, his
assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to follow the generally
accepted rules for recognition on this newsgroup, I contacted our Grand Lodge
Registry Department as promised. I was informed this morning. that W. B. Boggs
(Brian being his middle name) was a member of the Grand Master's One Day Class
and is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
It now becomes our duty to "whisper good council" in his ear and help him with
the lessons that were only briefly given to him on March 29th. It is my opinion
that he has come into Masonry with many pre-conceived ideas and, using his
relationship with his Church, has made some associations, that most of us
cannot agree with. Only time and more study by Bro. Boggs will help temper his
zeal and will possibly allow him to see that all of his Brothers need not
follow his specific religious beliefs to truly be his Brothers.
Perhaps he should re-read the lessons of the 1st Degree.
Fraternally,
George K.
Tom Accuosti
KIV11 <ki...@aol.com> wrote:
| Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under
| question by one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his
| questions, his assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to
| follow the generally accepted rules for recognition on this
| newsgroup, I contacted our Grand Lodge Registry Department as
| promised. I was informed this morning. that W. B. Boggs (Brian being
| his middle name) was a member of the Grand Master's One Day Class and
| is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
I'm glad that I was sitting down when I read that. Thank you, George,
for clearing that up.
It now becomes our duty
| to "whisper good council" in his ear and help him with the lessons
| that were only briefly given to him on March 29th.
I think that some of us were quite willing to do that at first, and the
frstration of watching his changing names, and trying to interpret the
incomplete stories, etc., compounded that.
It is my opinion
| that he has come into Masonry with many pre-conceived ideas and,
| using his relationship with his Church, has made some associations,
| that most of us cannot agree with.
Do I remember reading that he claimed to be an ordained minister?
Only time and more study by Bro.
| Boggs will help temper his zeal and will possibly allow him to see
| that all of his Brothers need not follow his specific religious
| beliefs to truly be his Brothers. Perhaps he should re-read the
| lessons of the 1st Degree. Fraternally, George K.
Again, thanks for the update, George.
Lighty, let me now acknowlege that I owe you an apology: I'm sorry.
And now, let me (again) mention that all this could have been avoided in
the first place had you taken a moment to contact me or one of the other
brothers who regualry post here.
--
Tom Accuosti
Friendship #33 AF&AM
Southington, CT
http://www.megahits.com/friendship33
(Sign our Guestbook!)
{Light Seeker}
"Tom Accuosti" <taccuo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:fTTkb.5020$Uz6...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
{Light Seeker}
That is why I interpreted the Mark degree
differently than some of you did. But that
is our right as masons.
Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It
requires of its members belief in God as part of the obligation of every
responsible adult, but advocates no sectarian faith or practice. Masonic
ceremonies include prayers, both traditional and extempore, to reaffirm each
individual's dependence on God and to seek divine guidance. Freemasonry is
open to men of any faith, but religion may not be discussed at Masonic
meetings.
I petitioned the lodge that I was interested in joining,
as was consequently accepted. I joined because of the truths and dogmas of
masonry were attractive to me, and my own personal beliefs. Once again, I
will state that they are mine, and others may not see them a binding, wether
in fact they are or not. Truth does not fail to be truth because someone
will not accept or "believe" it....
I can prove it...they sky to you might be yellow with orange poka dots, but
does that make it so?
I must admit, some of the language and conduct here makes me
hesitate....wether people are masons or not does NOT avil each one of us to
conduct ourselves and regulate (ie tyle!) ourselves and our conduct. We all
represent masonry....
Respect - Every person has a basic need for both self-respect and the
respect of others. When our friends show, by word or deed, that they hold us
in low regard, we may react as strongly as if we were threatened. On the
other side, we would do almost anything for a person who holds us in high
esteem. Thus, respect is both the least honor that we require and the
highest honor that we can hope for in our dealings with our fellow men.
The term "respect" includes courtesy, tolerance, kindness, sympathy,
prudence, temperance, and a host of other concepts that refer to our
relationships with people. It encompasses our words, our actions, our
appearance and even our thoughts. Inside the Lodge and outside of it, we
should strive to demonstrate in every way our respect for a Brother's honor,
feelings, efforts, hopes and any other part of his life that we may contact.
That, in some cases here I see, in others I do not....
I also know that I will get no apologies, but for yours.
I did not expect to get them. If SOME people had not acted like jerks, they
would have had no reason to apologize.
"KIV11" <ki...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031020102826...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under
question by
> one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his questions, his
> assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to follow the
generally
> accepted rules for recognition on this newsgroup, I contacted our Grand
Lodge
> Registry Department as promised. I was informed this morning. that W. B.
Boggs
> (Brian being his middle name) was a member of the Grand Master's One Day
Class
> and is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
Exactly what I told you, even giving the webpage address for the royal arch
chapter I belong to, with the sec's contact info on it. I know there are
reasons
some are paranoid, but is it right to lump ALL people into the same group?
I like my privacy. Also, several masons on here stated that they would not
NOT give out my personal info (Bob was one of them)...
> It now becomes our duty to "whisper good council" in his ear and help him
with
> the lessons that were only briefly given to him on March 29th. It is my
opinion
> that he has come into Masonry with many pre-conceived ideas and, using his
> relationship with his Church, has made some associations, that most of us
> cannot agree with.
> Only time and more study by Bro. Boggs will help temper his
> zeal and will possibly allow him to see that all of his Brothers need not
> follow his specific religious beliefs to truly be his Brothers.
I never made any statement that could even been interpreted as attacking
someone or labeling them as NOT a brother (in the LODGE sense) if they
not accept my own personal, religious convictions. Something likewise, we
know is NOT to be spoken about in the lodge....
> Perhaps he should re-read the lessons of the 1st Degree.
> Fraternally,
> George K.
Thanks again for the apology, but I would have appreciated it if you would
have
kept my name out of the post...remember I have had run ins with the nutz
on the Christian boards....Rev's and such!
Faternally,
Light Seeker
Tom Accuosti
Still, no I can't. There are at least half a dozen regular posters to
this group who's names can be easily traced to some kind of Masonic
organization. Mine is on our lodge web page, with the address in my sig.
Gene, Bob, Mike, and several others could easily be proved as well. You
could have picked one of us, sent an email and asked us to keep things
private - we being *real* Masons would have respected that, albeit
reluctantly in some cases. We've done this in the past.
Or let's turn this around: can you understand *our* reluctance to accept
your word? The mutating stories, the name changes (every few days you
re-bracket your name), and your refusal to contact any of us are all
signs and characteristics of the Anti's that regularly bedevil us in af.
There are people who, for whatever reason, would impersonate a mason
(perhpas wondering where we keep the keys to the black helicopters?).
Let me ask you straight out: what would have been so difficult about
contaccting someone privately a week ago? It would have prevented some
hard feelings, and possibly obviated some of your reluctance.
Peter Renzland
> KIV11 <ki...@aol.com> wrote:
>| Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under
>| question by one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his
>| questions, his assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to
>| follow the generally accepted rules for recognition on this
>| newsgroup, I contacted our Grand Lodge Registry Department as
>| promised. I was informed this morning. that X. X. Xxxxx (Xxxxx being
>| his middle name) was a member of the Grand Master's One Day Class and
>| is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
> And now, let me (again) mention that all this could have been avoided in
> the first place had you taken a moment to contact me or one of the other
> brothers who regualry post here.
And who had promised to preserve a Brothers secret ...
-- Pete
{Light Seeker}
"Peter Renzland" <phr...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:eJUkb.415$aw5.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Glad you asked! Read on...(for the hypocritical masses on alt.freemasonry)
Date: 2003-10-15 08:33:05 PST
Why do you need to verify anything?
"Bob" <MasterfulMas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:upnqovcdhc2kba43m...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:07:32 GMT, "Light Seeker" <Li...@seeker.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Why would I tell you my name? Usenet is not annonymous...
> >
>
> Here's a way to settle the issue:
>
> Send me a private email with your name and address. I promise to
> keep the information private and not to post it here. I also promise
> that I will check with the Grand Lodge of NY and determine if you
> are, or are not, a member of Orient No. 238.
>
> Please note the modification to my email address that you have to
> make in order to send email to me.
>
>
> Bob
>
{Light Seeker}
"{Light Seeker}" <li...@seeker.com 123243143432552> wrote in message
news:YfVkb.52555$Hs.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Forgot these as well....
From: bryan (ntlhel...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: (*) Membership (*)
Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry
Date: 2003-10-16 01:10:10 PST
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 04:39:43 GMT, "?Light Seeker ?" <li...@seeker.com>
wrote:
>If you do not accept me, then that is your own problem. I know that I am a
>mason, I know what lodge I belong to under the jurisdiction of the Grand
>Lodge of New York, and that is enough for me.
if you are a mason then you know that any confidential information you
send to a brother mason will remain that way... confidential.
--
Bryan Stevens
F.C. Old Olavians' 5758And this one....From: Tom Accuosti
(taccuo...@earthlink.net)Subject: Re: (*) Membership (*) Newsgroups:
alt.freemasonryDate: 2003-10-16 08:26:39 PST In
news:62wjb.26254$Sc7....@twister.nyroc.rr.com,
?Light Seeker ? <li...@seeker.com> wrote:
| No, I do not know that.
|
| And, I do not know any of these people, nor do I KNOW they are real
| masons...
Interesting that you've been eager to communicate with us on masonic
topics, but suddenly you're struck with paranoia...
Since *we* post our names and lodge affiliations, it would be pretty
easy for you to verify (there's that word again) that we indeed, are
masons. The website to my lodge is posted with my sig, and a quick
browse will get you to the list of email addresses for the other
officers in my lodge, not to mention the lodge phone number (although
nobody's there during the day, of course). By all means, please visit
the site and check. If seeing my name on the list of officers isn't
enough, then a quick email to the secretary or WM should put your mind
at ease, yes? That way you can email me privately and with complete
discretion, and I'll be able to verify your status. And of course, I'll
be willing to confirm that status here, without disclosing your name,
etc. Sounds like a good deal to me. I'll even throw in an apology <weg>.
Looking forward to your contact.
--
Tom Accuosti
Friendship #33 AF&AM
Southington, CT
http://www.megahits.com/friendship33
(Sign our Guestbook!)And this one....
"Bob" <MasterfulMas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11a0pv0jblallmhkh...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:20:18 GMT, "?Light Seeker ?" <li...@seeker.com>
> wrote:
>
> >No, I do not know that.
> >
> >And, I do not know any of these people, nor do I KNOW they are real
> >masons...
>
> Mr. Lightseeker:
>
> While I respect your right to privacy (I do not post my full name
> publicly), you also should have no fear in providing your information
> privately to any of the established Masons here. There are several
> folks here that have been posting in this and other Masonic groups
> for many years are well known to be Masons. Please consult Google
> if you wish. In addition, some are presiding Masters of their Lodges
> and their names and information are posted publicly at their web
> sites.
>
> Simply email one of them with your information privately. Since you
> are a Mason, you know what to say to them to make sure that your
> information remains private. If you are not confident that another
> Mason will keep your information private then you missed an
> important part of your initiation.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> Bob
>
> (Remove MY-HOODWINK to emailWant some more?
bryan
123243143432552> wrote:
>Forgot these as well....
>
>From: bryan (ntlhel...@hotmail.com)
>Subject: Re: (*) Membership (*)
>Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry
>Date: 2003-10-16 01:10:10 PST
>
>On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 04:39:43 GMT, "?Light Seeker ?" <li...@seeker.com>
>wrote:
>
>>If you do not accept me, then that is your own problem. I know that I am a
>>mason, I know what lodge I belong to under the jurisdiction of the Grand
>>Lodge of New York, and that is enough for me.
>
>if you are a mason then you know that any confidential information you
>send to a brother mason will remain that way... confidential.
>
>--
>
>Bryan Stevens
>F.C. Old Olavians' 5758
is there a problem with what i wrote?
{Light Seeker}
"bryan" <ntlhel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o498pv02for7q9tdt...@4ax.com...
Nope, responding to this post....question asked by "Pete"....
Path:
twister.nyroc.rr.com!news-rtr.nyroc.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!wn14
feed!worldnet.att.net!207.35.177.252!nf3.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!n
f2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry
From: Peter Renzland <phr...@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Light Seeker -- privacy: promise and practice
References: <20031020102826...@mb-m07.aol.com>
<fTTkb.5020$Uz6...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Darwin)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <eJUkb.415$aw5.1...@news20.bellglobal.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:13:46 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.95.108.73
X-Complaints-To: ab...@sympatico.ca
X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1066670026 65.95.108.73 (Mon, 20 Oct 2003
13:13:46 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:13:46 EDT
Organization: Bell Sympatico
Xref: news-rtr.nyroc.rr.com alt.freemasonry:1282103
Mike Restivo
salvage an apparent fraternal faux pas on his part. Ok it's a slow day
[smile].
The obligation is to preserve a confidence made from one Brother to another.
Bro. George obtained the name not from any confidence communicated to him by
the name bearer or another mason, but from the duly authorized lodge officer
from whom such communication of identity/lodge membership only is
fraternally lawful.
Actually it might be a masonic duty to determine the bona fides of any
masonic pretender/claimant so that in the case of improper masonic conduct,
the appropriate complaints can be sent to the appropriate lodge officers
towards masonic charge(s) against the pretender. Are the Lodge officers
breaking any masonic confidences? No, not in this context.
It is insufficient to be accepted on trust alone as a mason, although a
fellow brother can do so. To conserve masonic accountability to both the
Craft and the public at large, lest scandalous or misinformed or erroneous
claims, arguments or inferences be accepted with a degree of authority by
virtue of masonic membership alone, which the merits of the pretender's
words alone do not possess, any self-confessed mason must produce masonic
credentials upon demand.
Even having a Brother vouch for one, after private disclosure, for example,
is insufficient as it interferes with the direct accountability every
affiliated mason has with their lodge and circumvents the right of any mason
or non-mason, for public venues, to send complaint or commendations about
the pretender to the pretender's lodge.
So Bro. George ... do you owe me for saving face? heh, heh, heh. No.
Brothers don't keep score or else what's a Fraternity for? [wink]
Besides, you were probably going to satisfactorily explain this matter in a
follow-up message! [smile]
Anonymity is no exemption from masonic accountability, for which the
tagline's credentials are an essential ingredient, as they serve as a
deterrent from masonically irresponsible conduct. Indeed, they must be
volunteered at once as a masonic courtesy at best and common sense at least,
lest suspicion and diffidence interfere with both intentions of a poster and
comprehensions of readers, mason or not.
+ Mike Restivo
"KIV11" <ki...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031020102826...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under
question by
> one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his questions, his
> assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to follow the
generally
> accepted rules for recognition on this newsgroup, I contacted our Grand
Lodge
> Registry Department as promised.
[snipped]
bryan
123243143432552> wrote:
>> is there a problem with what i wrote?
>
>Nope, responding to this post....question asked by "Pete"....
oh... i thought there may have been when you wrote, "Read on...(for
the hypocritical masses on alt.freemasonry)"
ah well... never mind.
KIV11
>
>As Bro. George has been tolerant of Restivo over the years, I'll offer to
>salvage an apparent fraternal faux pas on his part.
faux pas? I don't even do ballet!
Seriously, as the Secretary of my Lodge, it is often my responsibility to
"prove" gentlemen asking to be accepted as Brothers, either as visitors or
affiliates. I availed myself of the resources present and am sorry that I may
have written the Brothers name without his permission, however, it was seen
flying across the internet on numerous occasions. I will keep his other
personal information safley lodged within.....
Good to see that you (Mike R.) are still checking up and taking a little pity
on some of us.
Regards,
George K.
-o Light Seeker o-
"KIV11" <ki...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031020160125...@mb-m05.aol.com...
The Bi Polar Bear
Thank God I am above you all...
And I will shine down upon you the order of flim flam!
And it will be good.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Phish...They'll scare the shit back into you.
"You are asking for an objective answer to a subjective question"
--------------------------------------------------------------
KIV11
>Where was it seen? My entire name? Nowhere....
>
See, there you go. I've apologized, you want to make a big deal over nothing,
so lets get at it.
Did you ever give me your name? No, you did not. Where would I have gotten it?
How about this newsgroup! Will I provide the exact date and time of the post?
Certainly not, I've wasted too much of my time trying to have you accepted by
the other posters to this newsgroup.
When you first appeared, you asked a question about joing the Royal Arch. I
gave you, what I thought was very good advice. Why did you ask the question and
waste my time if you had already petitioned and been accepted?
I'm sorry if you do not feel loved, but you've got to give a little to get a
little. You seem to get a real charge out of explaining Masonry to those of us
who have traveled the road long before you got here. Why copy posts on Masonic
etiquite? You evidently can't follow the suggestions listed in the Pamphlet
that you re-posted.
I've never taken this position with anyone else on this ng, but as far as I am
concerned, you can make all the mistakes you want. I will not be correcting or
advising or assisting in your further journey. Call it un-Masonic, sorry about
that, but as you should know from your study of the Bible, you reap what you
sow and Brother, you've sowed plenty.
-o Light Seeker o-
"KIV11" <ki...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031020165712...@mb-m26.aol.com...
Peter Renzland
> Bro. Mike wrote:
(BTW, the beans had already been spilled in BC on Saturday.)
>>As Bro. George has been tolerant of Restivo over the years, I'll
>>offer to salvage an apparent fraternal faux pas on his part.
> faux pas? I don't even do ballet!
Very good, George. :-)
This may be a good time to declare that any rumors that
Mike and I have been exchanging dance instruction for
rhetoric instruction are entirely without foundation,
completely fabricated, wildly exaggerated, and untrue too.
"When someone blunders, we say that he makes a misstep. Is it
then not clear that All the ills of mankind, all the tragic
misfortunes that fill our history books, all the political
blunders, all the failures of the great leaders have arisen
merely from a lack of skill in dancing." -- Moliere, 1673
--
Peter Renzland TORONTO _@_ {)/' (}, @ `\@ {)/'
Canada /\ /\_._,(_/ ()_/7 /\_._,(_\
TraditionalSocialDancing. ' \ /_\ /_\ /) /\ /_\
Je danse, donc je suis. . /) /( / )( \ ' ) ( `
nukleus
>Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under question by
>one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his questions, his
>assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to follow the generally
>accepted rules for recognition on this newsgroup,
"Generally ACCEPTED rules" of THIS newsgroup?
What are those, eh?
WHO wrote those 'rules'?
Are you lunatic, eh?
>I contacted our Grand Lodge
>Registry Department as promised. I was informed this morning. that XXX
>(XXX being his middle name) was a member of the Grand Master's One Day Class
>and is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
Did he authorize you to release his name in public, heh?
Furthermore, you are CLEARLY associating a usenet nick
with a specific name and even state his middle initial.
>It now becomes our duty to "whisper good council" in his ear
I don't even know who you are.
SHOW US THE PROOF !!!!!!
[That you are freemason and are not lying your shark teeth off]
>and help him
"Physician, heal THYSELF first".
Ever heard, eh?
>with the lessons that were only briefly given to him on March 29th.
>It is my opinion that he has come into Masonry with many pre-conceived
>ideas
And YOU, sire?
>and, using his relationship with his Church, has made some associations,
>that most of us cannot agree with.
Does it mean more than a jack shit, eh?
[what 'most of us' do or do not]
Is it a matter of MAJORITY opinion, eh?
[Of blind following the blind]
>Only time and more study by Bro. Boggs
Mind your own sucky enterprises, mr. guilt manipulator
and shame instillator.
>will help temper his zeal
HIS zeal, eh?
Or YOUR zeal, eh?
>and will possibly allow him to see that all of his Brothers
>need not follow his specific religious beliefs to truly be his Brothers.
Sucking full time, eh?
nukleus
>In news:20031020102826...@mb-m07.aol.com,
>KIV11 <ki...@aol.com> wrote:
>| Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under
>| question by one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his
>| questions, his assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to
>| follow the generally accepted rules for recognition on this
>| newsgroup, I contacted our Grand Lodge Registry Department as
>| promised. I was informed this morning. that xxx (xxx)
>| was a member of the Grand Master's One Day Class and
>| is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
>I'm glad that I was sitting down when I read that. Thank you, George,
>for clearing that up.
>It now becomes our duty
>| to "whisper good council" in his ear and help him with the lessons
>| that were only briefly given to him on March 29th.
>I think that some of us were quite willing to do that at first, and the
>frstration of watching his changing names, and trying to interpret the
>incomplete stories, etc., compounded that.
You, perverts, pissed in the face of your own 'brother'
and accused him of things he never done.
You slimed him and you abused him.
You rediculed him
and you humiliated him.
On your knees, suckers!
Ask him to forgive your idiocy and your paranoid perversions!
Ask him what can you do in order to rectify YOUR blindness
and show him that you are genuine BROTHERS to him!
Ask him what would satisfy him
in order to heal that wound you inflicted
to your own brother!
And pray the Lord, perverts, that he forgives you!
Because you don't deserve a spit.
>It is my opinion
>| that he has come into Masonry with many pre-conceived ideas and,
>| using his relationship with his Church, has made some associations,
>| that most of us cannot agree with.
>Do I remember reading that he claimed to be an ordained minister?
Do you suck as good as a black hole, eh?
What does it matter, eh?
>Only time and more study by Bro.
>| Boggs will help temper his zeal and will possibly allow him to see
>| that all of his Brothers need not follow his specific religious
>| beliefs to truly be his Brothers. Perhaps he should re-read the
>| lessons of the 1st Degree. Fraternally, George K.
>Again, thanks for the update, George.
Now you know it as you admitted it by following this post.
I wish to see what you do next
in the very place where you, perverts,
abused your own brother.
And I am as watchful, as you can not imagine in your
WILDEST dreams.
Do you thing now!
>Lighty, let me now acknowlege that I owe you an apology: I'm sorry.
That is not enough.
That won't heal the wound, you slime.
>And now, let me (again) mention that all this could have been avoided
Yes, if you were not as perverted as you are,
as cunning as you are,
as paranoid as you are,
as vicious as you are,
as idiotic as you are.
Indeed it could.
And he is not alone, by ANY means.
At this very moment,
you insulted and rediculed one other brother of yours
when he came here and stated he was wronged
and expelled from his lodge
just for speaking up.
You are the LOWEST grade slime
if you treat your own brothers like this.
If you recognize someone as your own brother,
you are to be willing to give your useless life
for him.
THAT is what brother means, you dirtiest slime there is.
>in the first place had you taken a moment to contact me
>or one of the other brothers who regualry post here.
Are you but a rat, who leaves the sinking ship first?
SHOW ME THE PROOF, SUCKAZOID !!!!!!
Gene Zippy
123243143432552> interestingly poked out:
>Can you understand my reluctance?
>
No.
Why don't you try explaining it?
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
past Master of two (2) Black Lodges
Blackmer #442 and Black Mountain #845
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Remember: Your Masonry may be different from someone else's.
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 2003. All rights reserved.
Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose, permission may be granted to others upon request.
Objects in this post are funnier than they appear
Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations?
Does this line make my sig look too fat?
Be seeing you
David Simpson
123243143432552> typed furiously:
>My religious beliefs are just that, mine.
>That is why I interpreted the Mark degree
>differently than some of you did. But that
>is our right as masons.
>
Fine.
>Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It
>requires of its members belief in God as part of the obligation of every
>responsible adult, but advocates no sectarian faith or practice. Masonic
>ceremonies include prayers, both traditional and extempore, to reaffirm each
>individual's dependence on God and to seek divine guidance. Freemasonry is
>open to men of any faith, but religion may not be discussed at Masonic
>meetings.
>
>I petitioned the lodge that I was interested in joining,
>as was consequently accepted. I joined because of the truths and dogmas of
>masonry were attractive to me, and my own personal beliefs. Once again, I
>will state that they are mine, and others may not see them a binding, wether
>in fact they are or not. Truth does not fail to be truth because someone
>will not accept or "believe" it....
>I can prove it...they sky to you might be yellow with orange poka dots, but
>does that make it so?
>
No argument from me.
>I must admit, some of the language and conduct here makes me
>hesitate....wether people are masons or not does NOT avil each one of us to
>conduct ourselves and regulate (ie tyle!) ourselves and our conduct. We all
>represent masonry....
>
Exactly. That is why your behaviour has been questioned.
>Respect - Every person has a basic need for both self-respect and the
>respect of others. When our friends show, by word or deed, that they hold us
>in low regard, we may react as strongly as if we were threatened. On the
>other side, we would do almost anything for a person who holds us in high
>esteem. Thus, respect is both the least honor that we require and the
>highest honor that we can hope for in our dealings with our fellow men.
>
>The term "respect" includes courtesy, tolerance, kindness, sympathy,
>prudence, temperance, and a host of other concepts that refer to our
>relationships with people. It encompasses our words, our actions, our
>appearance and even our thoughts. Inside the Lodge and outside of it, we
>should strive to demonstrate in every way our respect for a Brother's honor,
>feelings, efforts, hopes and any other part of his life that we may contact.
>
Respect is something I extend easily at first. Once lost it becomes
harder to win back a second time.
>That, in some cases here I see, in others I do not....
>
>I also know that I will get no apologies, but for yours.
>I did not expect to get them. If SOME people had not acted like jerks, they
>would have had no reason to apologize.
>
Right. Are you going to apologise for behaving like a jerk?
--
Regards
David Simpson (Remove "farook" to reply)
(Unattached MM)
Bad manners should not be a capital crime ...
for a first offence.
Robert Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love"
David Simpson
123243143432552> typed furiously:
>Can you understand my reluctance?
>
No. From your behaviour here I would suggest that any reprisals were
brought on you by your own behaviour.
I was going to apologise for doubting that you were a brother, however
I have since seen your other posts.
I strongly suggest that you return to your lodge and, instead of
progressing further in the York Rite, review the lessons taught in the
three degrees of Freemasonry. When you are prepared to behave like a
Freemason _then_ I will be prepared to extend an apology to you.
Jack Wise
> concerned, you can make all the mistakes you want. I will not be correcting or
> advising or assisting in your further journey. Call it un-Masonic, sorry about
> that, but as you should know from your study of the Bible, you reap what you
> sow and Brother, you've sowed plenty.
>
My Brother:
My I remind you of the lessons of the five points of fellowship? I do not
particularly respect the heretofore evinced behaviour of Brother 'Light Seeker',
but I will attempt to 'whisper good council in his ear'. He may not accept it
but that does not remove my obligation to try.
Perhaps with time and maturity and upon proper reflections on the lessons of our
Gentle Craft, he will learn to subdue his passions as should we all.
--
Jack Wise
PM, Jacques DeMolay Lodge No. 1390, AF & AM
( www.jd1390.org/jdmlodge.htm )
Houston, TX
Jim Bennie
<li...@seeker.com 123243143432552> wrote:
> My religious beliefs are just that, mine.
> That is why I interpreted the Mark degree
> differently than some of you did. But that
> is our right as masons.
Quite true, Brian. But you didn't interpret a degree. You quoted
one sentence found in both the Old and New Testaments. I still wonder
what you found in the whole ceremony that led you to your conclusion.
This is not a baiting or leading question.
> Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion.
It'd be a pretty lousy substitute for religion, wouldn't it?
> It
> requires of its members belief in God as part of the obligation of every
> responsible adult, but advocates no sectarian faith or practice. Masonic
> ceremonies include prayers, both traditional and extempore, to reaffirm each
> individual's dependence on God and to seek divine guidance. Freemasonry is
> open to men of any faith, but religion may not be discussed at Masonic
> meetings.
To be honest, in my lodge's ceremonies, we have no prayers other than
during degrees (OK, and when we say Grace). We have invocations otherwise,
which express a hope as opposed to a request of the Almighty.
> The term "respect" includes courtesy, tolerance, kindness, sympathy,
> prudence, temperance, and a host of other concepts that refer to our
> relationships with people.
< snip >
> That, in some cases here I see, in others I do not....
Let me put it this way - when you imply you don't trust your Bro. Masons
enough to post a simple name (easily found on Usenet) because you're
worried they'll sue you like some nut in another newsgroup - where's
the respect in that?
Suspicion breeds suspicion.
And saying you were "taking advice" from a PM given to you last night
for actions days ago is disingenous at best. And that's being really
courteous.
Anyway, I trust this is all done with and now we can on and discuss
Masonic items of mutual interest.
Jim Bennie
PM/DC, No. 44, Vancouver
Mike McGarry
> Can you understand my reluctance?
>
Had you been dealing with cowans or the trolls that infest this and
other newsgroups, yes. You were dealing with men who had identified
themselves as Brother Masons and you chose not to meet with us on the
level. This is what I do not understand. We have taken the same
obligations and experienced the same degrees. What did you hear or
see in those degrees that I did not hear or see? Can you understand
my incredulity at your actions?
Mike McGarry P.M.
Ashlar-Aspetuck Lodge #142
Easton, CT.
Peter Dettmann
<faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:11:41 GMT, "{Light Seeker}" <li...@seeker.com
>123243143432552> typed furiously:
>
>>My religious beliefs are just that, mine.
>>That is why I interpreted the Mark degree
>>differently than some of you did. But that
>>is our right as masons.
>>
>Fine.
I agree also, and here is the nub of the whole sad saga which reflects
rather sadly on those who lost their way, and forgot their avowed
principles. Regardless of Lightseekrs actions, the responses were
often lacking in any sort of proper Masonic decorum.
There is not and never was any reason or justification for the level
of self richeous vitriol that has spewed forth out of this group. In
actual fact Light Seeker only referred to a parallel between the old &
new testaments .... a well known and publicised section but not
aparently familiar to the resident stone throwers here.
Mealy mouthed apologies with ... 'it was not my fault
self justifications do not get to the root of the problem.
Full unequivical apologies are really the manly and Masonic thing to
do.
If you think I am angry you are possibly right, but my anger is
certainly overshadowed by my disapointment at the manner in which this
diatribe has progressed. And some deign to tell Light Seeker to look
to the lessons he learnt .... Brethren, that is calling the kettle
black in my book ... look to our own faults first. This news group
deserves better when it refers to Freemasonry in its name. Let us
stick to the principles of Freemasonry, or do we publically admit that
the anti's are right, we do not have or follow any principles of worth
?
Peter Dettmann
Gene Zippy
<faro...@picknowl.com.au> interestingly poked out:
>>Can you understand my reluctance?
>>
>No. From your behaviour here I would suggest that any reprisals were
>brought on you by your own behaviour.
>
And if his on-line conduct elsewhere has been so deplorable as to give
him cause for concern about being known here, it would suggest that
this is the LAST place he should be hanging out.
>I was going to apologise for doubting that you were a brother, however
>I have since seen your other posts.
>
>I strongly suggest that you return to your lodge and, instead of
>progressing further in the York Rite, review the lessons taught in the
>three degrees of Freemasonry. When you are prepared to behave like a
>Freemason _then_ I will be prepared to extend an apology to you.
--
Joe Steve Swick III
Nope, responding to this post....question asked by "Pete"....
Pete didn't ask a question. Rather, he was adding a comment to the end of a
remark by Brother Accousti. The bracketed remarks are Brother Pete's:
___Tom___
And now, let me (again) mention that all this could have been avoided in the
first place had you taken a moment to contact me or one of the other
brothers who regualry post here. [And who had promised to preserve a
Brothers secret ...]
JSW
librarian
Date: 8 Nov 2003 17:19:03 GMT
Category: Censored by Totalitarian Dictatorship
Article: 137
"truth is not for those who are unworthy."
"Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and
intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray."
--- Albert Pike,
Grand Commander, Sovereign Pontiff of
Universal Freemasonry,
Morals and Dogma
If you have an interesting article or a quote on:
NWO, Freemasonry, Skull and Bones, Illuminati,
post them on alt.illuminati or alt.conspiracy.new-world-order
In article <20031020102826...@mb-m07.aol.com>, ki...@aol.com
(KIV11) wrote:
>Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under question by
>one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his questions, his
>assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to follow the generally
>accepted rules for recognition on this newsgroup,
"Generally ACCEPTED rules" of THIS newsgroup?
What are those, eh?
WHO wrote those 'rules'?
Are you lunatic, eh?
>I contacted our Grand Lodge
>Registry Department as promised. I was informed this morning. that XXX
>(XXX being his middle name) was a member of the Grand Master's One Day Class
>and is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
Did he authorize you to release his name in public, heh?
Furthermore, you are CLEARLY associating a usenet nick
with a specific name and even state his middle initial.
>It now becomes our duty to "whisper good council" in his ear
I don't even know who you are.
SHOW US THE PROOF !!!!!!
[That you are freemason and are not lying your shark teeth off]
>and help him
"Physician, heal THYSELF first".
Ever heard, eh?
>with the lessons that were only briefly given to him on March 29th.
>It is my opinion that he has come into Masonry with many pre-conceived
>ideas
And YOU, sire?
>and, using his relationship with his Church, has made some associations,
>that most of us cannot agree with.
Does it mean more than a jack shit, eh?
[what 'most of us' do or do not]
Is it a matter of MAJORITY opinion, eh?
[Of blind following the blind]
>Only time and more study by Bro. Boggs
Mind your own sucky enterprises, mr. guilt manipulator
and shame instillator.
>will help temper his zeal
HIS zeal, eh?
Or YOUR zeal, eh?
>and will possibly allow him to see that all of his Brothers
>need not follow his specific religious beliefs to truly be his Brothers.
Sucking full time, eh?
>Perhaps he should re-read the lessons of the 1st Degree.
>Fraternally,
>George K.
"We ended the rule of one of history's worst tyrants,
and in so doing, we not only freed the American people,
we made our own people more secure."
--- Adolph Bush,
Crawford, Texas, May 3, 2003
librarian
Date: 4 Dec 2003 16:00:53 GMT
Category: Censored by Totalitarian Dictatorship of NWO,
Degeneracy Propagation Department.
Article: 138
"If he's -- the inference is that somehow he thinks slavery
is a -- is a noble institution I would -- I would strongly
reject that assumption -- that John Ashcroft is a open-minded,
inclusive person."
--- DISGUSTING degenerate Adolph Bush,
NBC Nightly News With Tom Brokaw, Jan. 14, 2001
In article <fTTkb.5020$Uz6...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Tom
Accuosti" <taccuo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In news:20031020102826...@mb-m07.aol.com,
>KIV11 <ki...@aol.com> wrote:
>| Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under
>| question by one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his
>| questions, his assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to
>| follow the generally accepted rules for recognition on this
>| newsgroup, I contacted our Grand Lodge Registry Department as
>| promised. I was informed this morning. that xxx (xxx)
>| was a member of the Grand Master's One Day Class and
>| is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
>I'm glad that I was sitting down when I read that. Thank you, George,
>for clearing that up.
>It now becomes our duty
>| to "whisper good council" in his ear and help him with the lessons
>| that were only briefly given to him on March 29th.
>I think that some of us were quite willing to do that at first, and the
>frstration of watching his changing names, and trying to interpret the
>incomplete stories, etc., compounded that.
You, perverts, pissed in the face of your own 'brother'
and accused him of things he never done.
You slimed him and you abused him.
You rediculed him
and you humiliated him.
On your knees, suckers!
Ask him to forgive your idiocy and your paranoid perversions!
Ask him what can you do in order to rectify YOUR blindness
and show him that you are genuine BROTHERS to him!
Ask him what would satisfy him
in order to heal that wound you inflicted
to your own brother!
And pray the Lord, perverts, that he forgives you!
Because you don't deserve a spit.
>It is my opinion
>| that he has come into Masonry with many pre-conceived ideas and,
>| using his relationship with his Church, has made some associations,
>| that most of us cannot agree with.
>Do I remember reading that he claimed to be an ordained minister?
Do you suck as good as a black hole, eh?
What does it matter, eh?
>Only time and more study by Bro.
>| Boggs will help temper his zeal and will possibly allow him to see
>| that all of his Brothers need not follow his specific religious
>| beliefs to truly be his Brothers. Perhaps he should re-read the
>| lessons of the 1st Degree. Fraternally, George K.
>Again, thanks for the update, George.
Now you know it as you admitted it by following this post.
I wish to see what you do next
in the very place where you, perverts,
abused your own brother.
And I am as watchful, as you can not imagine in your
WILDEST dreams.
Do you thing now!
>Lighty, let me now acknowlege that I owe you an apology: I'm sorry.
That is not enough.
That won't heal the wound, you slime.
>And now, let me (again) mention that all this could have been avoided
Yes, if you were not as perverted as you are,
as cunning as you are,
as paranoid as you are,
as vicious as you are,
as idiotic as you are.
Indeed it could.
And he is not alone, by ANY means.
At this very moment,
you insulted and rediculed one other brother of yours
when he came here and stated he was wronged
and expelled from his lodge
just for speaking up.
You are the LOWEST grade slime
if you treat your own brothers like this.
If you recognize someone as your own brother,
you are to be willing to give your useless life
for him.
THAT is what brother means, you dirtiest slime there is.
>in the first place had you taken a moment to contact me
>or one of the other brothers who regualry post here.
Are you but a rat, who leaves the sinking ship first?
SHOW ME THE PROOF, SUCKAZOID !!!!!!
[NWO, degenerate, terrorism, war]
From Reuters, 11/21/03:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20031121_184.html
U.S. General Says Bin Laden 'Out of the Picture'
By Yousuf Azimy
BAGRAM, Afghanistan (Reuters) -
A senior U.S. general said on Friday that al Qaeda mastermind Osama
bin Laden had "taken himself out of the picture" and that his capture
was not essential to winning the "war on terror."
General Peter Pace, vice chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff,
said at U.S. military headquarters just north of Kabul that the
11,500-strong U.S.-led force hunting al Qaeda and Taliban militants
was not focusing on individuals.
"He (bin Laden) has taken himself out of the picture," Pace told
reporters after visiting U.S. troops serving in Afghanistan.
"It is not an individual that is as important as is the ongoing
campaign of the coalition against terrorists," he said.
America's new ambassador to Kabul Zalmay Khalilzad said earlier this
week that the U.S. military would "redouble" its efforts to find bin
Laden and other al Qaeda and Taliban leaders.
While appearing to contradict this, Pace, added:
"That is not to say that we would not be glad to capture Osama bin
Laden today or tomorrow."
librarian
Date: 4 Dec 2003 16:00:43 GMT
Category: Censored by Totalitarian Dictatorship of NWO,
Degeneracy Propagation Department.
"After all, a week ago, there were -- Yasser Arafat was boarded up
in his building in Ramallah, a building full of, evidently,
German peace protestors and all kinds of people.
They're now out. He's now free to show leadership,
to lead the world."
--- DISGUSTING degenerate Adolph Bush,
Washington, D.C., May 2, 2002
(Thanks to M. Bateman.)
In article <20031020102826...@mb-m07.aol.com>, ki...@aol.com
(KIV11) wrote:
>Since our new Brother's membership in the Fraternity has come under question by
>one and all, including myself, due to the manner of his questions, his
>assumptions and conclusions, and because he refuses to follow the generally
>accepted rules for recognition on this newsgroup,
"Generally ACCEPTED rules" of THIS newsgroup?
What are those, eh?
WHO wrote those 'rules'?
Are you lunatic, eh?
>I contacted our Grand Lodge
>Registry Department as promised. I was informed this morning. that XXX
>(XXX being his middle name) was a member of the Grand Master's One Day Class
>and is a member in good standing of Orient Lodge.
Did he authorize you to release his name in public, heh?
Furthermore, you are CLEARLY associating a usenet nick
with a specific name and even state his middle initial.
>It now becomes our duty to "whisper good council" in his ear
I don't even know who you are.
SHOW US THE PROOF !!!!!!
[That you are freemason and are not lying your shark teeth off]
>and help him
"Physician, heal THYSELF first".
Ever heard, eh?
>with the lessons that were only briefly given to him on March 29th.
>It is my opinion that he has come into Masonry with many pre-conceived
>ideas
And YOU, sire?
>and, using his relationship with his Church, has made some associations,
>that most of us cannot agree with.
Does it mean more than a jack shit, eh?
[what 'most of us' do or do not]
Is it a matter of MAJORITY opinion, eh?
[Of blind following the blind]
>Only time and more study by Bro. Boggs
Mind your own sucky enterprises, mr. guilt manipulator
and shame instillator.
>will help temper his zeal
HIS zeal, eh?
Or YOUR zeal, eh?
>and will possibly allow him to see that all of his Brothers
>need not follow his specific religious beliefs to truly be his Brothers.
Sucking full time, eh?
>Perhaps he should re-read the lessons of the 1st Degree.
>Fraternally,
>George K.
"Dick Cheney and I do not want this nation to be in a recession.
We want anybody who can find work to be able to find work."
--- DISGUSTING degenerate Adolph Bush,
60 Minutes II, Dec. 5, 2000
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