Is Freemasonry a Goddess Religion
wabond
in the 21 century is a mystery. Secret societies made sense a few
hundred years ago when you could be murdered for having the wrong
religious beliefs. But in the 21st century in the Western World at
least you don't have this problem. Unless Freemasonry still holds a
secret that they believe would be unacceptable to the general public.
Goddess worship is still unacceptable even today so this would be a
strong posiblility.
I have been very interested in the ancient religion of the Great
Mother for a long time. This ancient religion goes back to the Stone
age where Paleolithic and Neolithic art is full on feminine images.
Like numerous goddess carvings, and symbols of the vagina and the
triangle of the women's pubic hair. All celebrating the life giving
powers of the Great Mother. Where the vagina, menstruation, sex,
child birth and breast feeding was once seen as being very sacred and
holy. (see "The Language Of The Goddess by Marija Gimbutas").
Then some time ago I picked up in my local library the book called
"Freemasonry" by W. Kirk MacNulty. Now this book is full of
Freemasonry symbolism and I couldn't fail to notice that it's
symbolism was very similar to that of the Goddess symbols of the Stone
Age.
The most well Mason symbol is that of the compass and square. But I
couldn't help noticing that the space between the two tools can be
seen as a vagina. This is confirmed because masons use other tools
like a knife and fork to form and similar shape. Another well known
symbol is the "eye of god" which is strange because why has god only
have one eye? This could be a symbol of the Oneness of the universe
which is a mystical concept coming from the ancient religion of the
Great Mother. But again if you turn the eye sideways you get another
vagina symbol.
Also in Freemasonry symbols we find a very large amount of Goddesses.
They off course are not called Goddesses but in symbolic pictures we
find a image of a women at the top of the picture. And in other
pictures Freemasonry is shown in the image of a woman. Sometimes we
also see a group of three Goddesses which is the ancient triple
Goddess. The statue of Liberty was commissioned, financed and built
by Freemasons and again is a statue of a Goddess. (though off course
it is never called a Goddess). In fact from her head dress which
shows the rays of the sun and She is holding a flame, in ancient times
She would be seen as a Sun Goddess. This is a very ancient symbol
because people stopped worshipping Sun Goddesses at the dawn of
recorded history. In many of the "eye of god" symbols in Freemasonry
the eye is surrounded by the rays of the sun. If the eye is a Goddess
symbol we again see the Sun Goddess so this must be a important symbol
to the Freemasons.
The number 13 is seen a lot in Freemasonry symbolism, which is also on
the great seal of the USA. The original calendars had 13 months in a
years which came from the 13 new moons in a year. The moon was seen a
feminine symbol as it was the same as women's menstrual cycle. In
ancient times the menstruation was seen as something very sacred.
This changed when patriarchal religions took over and menstruation
came to be seen as unclean, taboo and even sinful. They even change
to a 12 month year to destroy the knowledge that a month once was the
cycle of a women's period. So again this is referring back to the
ancient religion of the Great Mother.
Then there is "The Three Great Lights Of Freemasonry". These symbols
are apparently so important that no Masonic Lodge can meet unless they
are displayed. On top we find the image of a beehive, now bees live
in a matriarchal society ruled by the queen bee. I have also read
that the hive is also representative of the pregnant belly of the
Great Mother. Which again is a potent symbol in the Stone Age. The
next great light is the compass and square symbol which looks
suspiciously like a vagina symbol. This is placed on a open book
which people assume is the holy bible. On the picture I have seen we
see the word John on top of the page. Now in the book, "Jesus and the
lost Goddess" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy they claim that the
gospel of John was originally the called the gospel of Mary Magdelene.
So again we have a feminine religious symbol. The third symbol is
that of Noah's ark. Ships can be also seen as a feminine symbol but
this probably means more than this.
Back in the 1960s the oldest city ever found was excavated. This was
in Turkey and called Catal Huyuk and went back 9,000 years and was far
older than the Egyptian and Sumer civilizations. What was discovered
was a civilization where war and violence was completely unknown, as
archeologists could find no evidence of fortifications, weapons of war
or images that show violence, like is seen in later civilizations. It
was also a city full of feminine images, the James Mellart the
archologist in charge concluded that the people worshipped the Ancient
Great Mother. This was so disturbing to the academic world that the
site was closed down for thirty years and archeologists for a long
time kept quite about this excavation. But there was one archeologist
called Marija Gimbutas who broke ranks and wrote about similar
Neolithic finds in other parts of Europe. Like in Malta, Crete,
Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia and Ukraine. She was criticized
and condemned by her colleges and her work was dismissed as
unscientific because it when againest the fashionable theories of the
time that it was war lords who started the first civilizations. But
archeologists where to find other civilizations like described by
Marija Gimbutas in other parts of the world. Like the Indus
civilizations found in Pakistani and more recently Catal the oldest
city found in South America in Peru. In both these civilizations
archeologists again couldn't find any evidence of violence or warfare.
More modern archeologists are now taking Mariga Gimbutas claims more
seriously and now admit that the first civilizations were able to live
in peace for thousands of years. (See, "Lost Civilisations Of The
Stone Age" and "Secrets Of The Stone Age" by Richard Rudgely). But
more recently there is evidence of civilization going back even
further than Catal Huyuk. Graham Hancock is highlighting the fact
that 12 thousand years ago the ice age was coming to a end and many
coastal areas was flooded. All over the world the remains of ancient
cities have been discovered under the sea. Yet archeologists show
little interest in excavating any of these sites. (Though admittedly
it would take a lot of money to excavate under the sea and
archeologists are under the control of the people who hand this money
out).
Now this very much backs up the stories of floods in ancient myths in
which Noah's ark is one of them. So having Noah's ark as the third
light again takes us back to a age of peace and harmony where people
worshipped the ancient Great Mother. The problem with this is
archeologists have only found out about these civilizations over the
last 50 years. Freemasonry goes back even further than this.
The point about masonry is that it is good for preserving ancient
knowledge. We today know a lot about the ancient Egyptians but far
less about the Sumer civilization. Simply because the Egyptians built
in stone and the Sumerians built mostly mud brick, which soon eroded.
So the hidden meaning of Freemasonry would be the preserver of ancient
knowledge because it is the work of stone masons that make this
possible. Patriarchal religions like Christianity and Mohammadism
tried to destroy all ancient knowledge, in which they were very
successful because we today know very little about ancient
civilizations. But I can't believe that scholars of the time were in
agreement with this destruction and would of done all they could to
preserve this knowledge. To do this they would of had to set up
secret societies and probably Freemasonry was one of them.
I have discovered far more Goddess connections in Freemasonry like the
story of Gerald Gardner who started modern Witchcraft. He claimed he
was a member of a secret ancient Goddess religion that still existed.
He then broke the code of silence of this religion because of the
repeal of the Witchcraft act in the 1950s. Today even Witches doubt
if his story is true, they point out he was a Freemason and many of
his Witchcraft rituals either come directly from Freemasonry or he
made them up himself. But perhaps he wasn't telling lies. It
Freemasonry was the ancient Goddess religion he was talking about then
what he says may be true.
The problem with this that Masons themselves admit their are different
degrees of knowledge within Freemasonry. This means their are secret
societies within Freemasonry that the rank and file members don't know
nothing about. This suggests that only the inner circle of Masons
would know about the secret Goddess within this organization. This
then is probably why Freemasonry is still very much a secret society.
Because this inner circle would know that Goddess worship is still
unacceptable to the general public. They may of given Gerald Gardner
some of it's inner knowledge to start modern Witchcraft to test the
mood of the public. But while the general public is ignorant of the
ancient Great Mother and still find this concept too weird and strange
the inner circle of Freemasons will still keep their secret knowledge
to themselves.
William Bond
David E. Eaton, Sr.
"wabond" <wab...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:96e45fb1.02052...@posting.google.com...
> Freemasonry is a secret society but why it is a still a secret society
> in the 21 century is a mystery.
This is your first mistake. Freemasonry is NOT a "secret society." As you
have indicated from the deleted portion of your message, you can go to any
Library and find out everything about Freemasonry. If Freemasonry were a
"secret society" then you wouldn't be having this discussion now because you
wouldn't know it existed. The "secrets" that Freemasonry have are those
that you have. Would you mind telling us how much you spend per month on
electricity? Telephone? Food? It's none of my business what your bills are
so why is it your business how much the Lodge near you spends on it's bills.
While I know what my Lodge spends on bills; I don't know what the
surrounding Lodges spend, it's none of my business.
> Goddess worship is still unacceptable even today so this would be a
> strong posiblility.
And where is it unacceptable? I have quite a few friends that 'practice
Goddess worshipping'. I have quite a few friends that question why Man
generally refuses to acknowledge the feminine side of G-d. And none of this
has anything to do with Freemasonry other than: Do you believe in a Supreme
Being? And the answer to that is quite simple; either 'Yes" or "No"...we
don't wish to know what you call your Supreme Being or how you worship
him/her/it. We leave that up to you; it's none of our business.
Hope this helps you to better understand Freemasonry a little.
<Remainder Snipped.>
--
Regards,
David E. Eaton, Sr., MM, MPS
Virtus junxit mors non separabit
dea...@hotmail.com
Burlington Lodge #32, F&AM
http://users.erols.com/washcrossfdn/cover.htm
Grand Lodge of New Jersey
www.njfreemasonry.org
Odenton Lodge #209, AF&AM
Grand Lodge of Maryland
Duke of URL
news:96e45fb1.02052...@posting.google.com...
> Freemasonry is a secret society but why it is a still a secret society
> Goddess worship is still unacceptable even today so this would be a
Sigh...
We are not a secret society, we are a society with secrets.
We are not a religion, we (the members) are religious.
This guy has way too much time on his hands. Seems to be obsessed with
female genitalia, too. Wonder what he thinks about gravy bowls... No, on
second thought, I DON'T want to know!
Roy Jose Lorr
See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil... eh?
Roy Jose Lorr
Duke of URL wrote:
Sure you Do.
Gene Zippy
>Freemasonry is a secret society
<LOL>
Right, and the existence of no less than four usenet newsgroups
demonstrates just how secret it is.
>But I
>couldn't help noticing that the space between the two tools can be
>seen as a vagina.
What do you see when you look at clouds?
>But again if you turn the eye sideways you get another
>vagina symbol.
How long have you been obsessed with vaginas? Is it because you want
to have one?
> Now in the book, "Jesus and the
>lost Goddess" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy they claim that the
>gospel of John was originally the called the gospel of Mary Magdelene.
So you think Christianity is one of your "Goddess religions"?
<LOL>
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
Mike's friend
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
http://mastermason.com/BrotherGene
http://www.mastermason.com/BrotherGene/frequently_asked_questions.htm
MBBFMN #387
ICQ #503060
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Jack Hickey
Freemasonry-as-Goddess worship. It is nice to know that there are
so many non-Masons out there who know us so much better than we Masons
know ourselves, and are so willing to teach Masons the true meaning of
Masonry.
A few minor comments on your post, if'n you don't mind.
On 21 May 2002 23:08:35 -0700, wab...@rocketmail.com (wabond) wrote:
>Freemasonry is a secret society but why it is a still a secret society
>in the 21 century is a mystery.
First fallacy, Mr. Bond. Freemasonry is not a secret society in any
meaningful sense of the term. You know about it; there have been
books written about it (I enjoy Katherine Kurtz's novels, fanciful
though they may be); there have been movies about it, some of them
more or less factual; there are even USEnet newsgroups dedicated to
it. Freemasons tend to be proud of their membership and (at least
in the USA) announce it widely.
That's a heck of a way for a "secret society" to act, IMO.
>Secret societies made sense a few
>hundred years ago when you could be murdered for having the wrong
>religious beliefs.
... and still can be, in many places. Most of the mid-East.
Parts of Northern Ireland. New York City.
>Goddess worship is still unacceptable even today so this would be a
>strong posiblility.
Unacceptable to whom? I don't share those beliefs, but I have no
problem with those who do. I can think of a few Goddess
worshippers whom I consider to be very good friends. I can think
of a few Goddess-worshippers whom I have hosted in my Lodge.
You are painting with far too broad a brush, here.
>Then some time ago I picked up in my local library the book called
>"Freemasonry" by W. Kirk MacNulty. Now this book is full of
>Freemasonry symbolism and I couldn't fail to notice that it's
>symbolism was very similar to that of the Goddess symbols of the Stone
>Age.
*sigh* There is no inherent meaning in any symbol. A symbol
means exactly and precisely that, and only that, which we impose upon
it. The same symbol can have different meanings for different
people; in fact, the same symbol can have different meanings at
different times for the same person.
>The most well Mason symbol is that of the compass and square. But I
>couldn't help noticing that the space between the two tools can be
>seen as a vagina.
You really need to get out more.
>Also in Freemasonry symbols we find a very large amount of Goddesses.
I can't think of one immediately. Give a reference, please.
>The number 13 is seen a lot in Freemasonry symbolism,
Give a reference, please.
>Then there is "The Three Great Lights Of Freemasonry". These symbols
>are apparently so important that no Masonic Lodge can meet unless they
>are displayed.
This is absolutely correct. No Masonic lodge can meet unless the
Lights are displayed. You are incorrect in delineating them,
though.
>On top we find the image of a beehive,
The Three Great Lights of Freemasonry are the Holy Bible, Square and
Compasses. The beehive is *a* symbol of the third degree in the
ritual as performed here, but it has no part of the degree in the
ritual performed in other places. The same with the Ark.
The beehive and the ark are NOT rpt NOT "great lights of Freemasonry."
>This is placed on a open book which people assume is the holy bible.
I don't have to "assume" that the book is a Bible. The one I use is
a King James Version, printed in 1870, and it weighs about thirty
pounds.
>The problem with this that Masons themselves admit their are different
>degrees of knowledge within Freemasonry.
There are "different degrees of knowledge" within every single form of
human endeavour you can name.
>This means their are secret societies within Freemasonry that the
>rank and file members don't know nothing about.
I don't see how you can make a leap like this, from "different degrees
of knowledge" to the existence of secret societies within Freemasonry.
How do you make this connection?
Jack Hickey
Master, Isaiah Thomas Lodge
Worcester MA USA
www.geocities.com/isaiahthomas2001/
Mike Restivo
>
> Freemasonry is a secret society but why it is a still a secret society
> in the 21 century is a mystery. Secret societies made sense a few
> hundred years ago when you could be murdered for having the wrong
> religious beliefs. But in the 21st century in the Western World at
> least you don't have this problem. Unless Freemasonry still holds a
> secret that they believe would be unacceptable to the general public.
> Goddess worship is still unacceptable even today so this would be a
> strong posiblility.
Freemasonry is a strictly patriarchal and fraternal body. No women
regularly allowed. Masonic rites that admit women are considered
irregular. There is of course no intrinsic reason why women can not be
masons. Freemasons are afraid of women and hide together to keep the
girls out.
>
> I have been very interested in the ancient religion of the Great
> Mother for a long time. This ancient religion goes back to the Stone
> age where Paleolithic and Neolithic art is full on feminine images.
> Like numerous goddess carvings, and symbols of the vagina and the
> triangle of the women's pubic hair. All celebrating the life giving
> powers of the Great Mother. Where the vagina, menstruation, sex,
> child birth and breast feeding was once seen as being very sacred and
> holy. (see "The Language Of The Goddess by Marija Gimbutas").
Interesting to read male masons comments about how freemasonry holds the
above as sacred principles to rule and guide them.
>
> Then some time ago I picked up in my local library the book called
> "Freemasonry" by W. Kirk MacNulty. Now this book is full of
> Freemasonry symbolism and I couldn't fail to notice that it's
> symbolism was very similar to that of the Goddess symbols of the Stone
> Age.
Interesting ...
>
> The most well Mason symbol is that of the compass and square. But I
> couldn't help noticing that the space between the two tools can be
> seen as a vagina. This is confirmed because masons use other tools
> like a knife and fork to form and similar shape. Another well known
> symbol is the "eye of god" which is strange because why has god only
> have one eye? This could be a symbol of the Oneness of the universe
> which is a mystical concept coming from the ancient religion of the
> Great Mother. But again if you turn the eye sideways you get another
> vagina symbol.
Comments invited perhaps.
Interesting theory, but could be controversial.
† Mike Restivo
burzlebub
news:3CEBC6A3...@sympatico.ca...
> Freemasons are afraid of women and hide together to keep the
> girls out.
is that one of the reasons you joined, mike? you can write sado-masochistic
pornography about them but you can't interact with them in er... the flesh?
we all know the other reason you joined freemasonry:
"Now I have only 90 days membership in the Craft; just the Initiations,
that's it. I was interested in the C.B.C.S. and needed Master Mason
qualification for consideration. Otherwise I would not have joined, as the
Craft had nothing to teach me. I was interested in the Scottish Rectified
Rite, of which the C.B.C.S. and the Profession are higher grades within it,
and still am, although I have not studied its rituals yet."
--------------------------------------------------
"The broad mass of a newsgroup...will more easily
fall victim to a big lie than to a small one."
Adolf Restivo, Mein Keller
The rank and file of a newsgroup are usually much
more primitive than I imagine. Propaganda must
therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious.
Joseph Restivo, Martinist of Propaganda
David Simpson
>Freemasonry is a secret society but why it is a still a secret society
Mistake number one. If freemasonry was secret you wouldn't be making
these accusations at all.
>in the 21 century is a mystery. Secret societies made sense a few
>hundred years ago when you could be murdered for having the wrong
>religious beliefs. But in the 21st century in the Western World at
>least you don't have this problem. Unless Freemasonry still holds a
>secret that they believe would be unacceptable to the general public.
>Goddess worship is still unacceptable even today so this would be a
>strong posiblility.
>
How you worship is your business. So long as you don't insist that I
worship your way I don't care how, who, where, when or why you
worship.
[snip]
>The most well Mason symbol is that of the compass and square. But I
>couldn't help noticing that the space between the two tools can be
>seen as a vagina. This is confirmed because masons use other tools
>like a knife and fork to form and similar shape. Another well known
>symbol is the "eye of god" which is strange because why has god only
>have one eye? This could be a symbol of the Oneness of the universe
>which is a mystical concept coming from the ancient religion of the
>Great Mother. But again if you turn the eye sideways you get another
>vagina symbol.
>
Do you see everything in terms of sex?
>Also in Freemasonry symbols we find a very large amount of Goddesses.
>They off course are not called Goddesses but in symbolic pictures we
>find a image of a women at the top of the picture. And in other
>pictures Freemasonry is shown in the image of a woman. Sometimes we
Produce some links to back up your claim please.
>also see a group of three Goddesses which is the ancient triple
>Goddess. The statue of Liberty was commissioned, financed and built
>by Freemasons and again is a statue of a Goddess. (though off course
>it is never called a Goddess).
I thought it was France that donated the Statue to the fledgling USA
to celebrate their throwing off the shackles of monarchy just as they
had done.
>In fact from her head dress which
>shows the rays of the sun and She is holding a flame, in ancient times
>She would be seen as a Sun Goddess. This is a very ancient symbol
>because people stopped worshipping Sun Goddesses at the dawn of
>recorded history.
Not at all. Some people have never stopped worshipping goddesses.
Money being one of them. Of course the Colossus (male) had already
been done so a female figure was selected just to be different.
Typical Americans. <BWG>
>In many of the "eye of god" symbols in Freemasonry
>the eye is surrounded by the rays of the sun. If the eye is a Goddess
>symbol we again see the Sun Goddess so this must be a important symbol
>to the Freemasons.
>
Why? The "eye" is used as a symbol of the "all-seeing eye" of the
Supreme Being. "Big Brother" type of symbol as from "1984" by George
Orwell.
>The number 13 is seen a lot in Freemasonry symbolism, which is also on
>the great seal of the USA.
The symbolism on the Great Seal of the US may have the artwork in
common with the symbolism used in freemasonry but that is all. I have
not seen 13 used in a lodge.
>The original calendars had 13 months in a
>years which came from the 13 new moons in a year. The moon was seen a
>feminine symbol as it was the same as women's menstrual cycle. In
>ancient times the menstruation was seen as something very sacred.
>This changed when patriarchal religions took over and menstruation
>came to be seen as unclean, taboo and even sinful. They even change
>to a 12 month year to destroy the knowledge that a month once was the
>cycle of a women's period. So again this is referring back to the
>ancient religion of the Great Mother.
>
Another groundless accusation. The original calendars had ten months,
not thirteen. Two Roman emperors thought that they were so important
that they added a new month. Look at the names of the months.
September was originally the seventh month, October the eighth,
November the ninth and December was the tenth. Julius Caesar added
July and Augustus Caesar added August.
>Then there is "The Three Great Lights Of Freemasonry". These symbols
>are apparently so important that no Masonic Lodge can meet unless they
>are displayed. On top we find the image of a beehive, now bees live
>in a matriarchal society ruled by the queen bee. I have also read
>that the hive is also representative of the pregnant belly of the
>Great Mother. Which again is a potent symbol in the Stone Age.
Sorry again. There is no symbol of a beehive anywhere in my lodge. You
are making the same mistake that many posters make. The symbols of
freemasonry are varied and with over three hundred different
jurisdictions throughout the world some jurisdictions do not have the
same symbols.
> The
>next great light is the compass and square symbol which looks
>suspiciously like a vagina symbol. This is placed on a open book
>which people assume is the holy bible. On the picture I have seen we
>see the word John on top of the page. Now in the book, "Jesus and the
>lost Goddess" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy they claim that the
>gospel of John was originally the called the gospel of Mary Magdelene.
> So again we have a feminine religious symbol. The third symbol is
>that of Noah's ark. Ships can be also seen as a feminine symbol but
>this probably means more than this.
>
Once again there is no symbol of Noah's Ark anywhere in my lodge.
[snip of an interesting story]
>Now this very much backs up the stories of floods in ancient myths in
>which Noah's ark is one of them. So having Noah's ark as the third
>light again takes us back to a age of peace and harmony where people
>worshipped the ancient Great Mother. The problem with this is
>archeologists have only found out about these civilizations over the
>last 50 years. Freemasonry goes back even further than this.
>
Yes. The oldest masonic records are found in Scotland and are dated in
the late 1500's. (Sixteenth Century) While lots of freemasons would
like to claim that the craft goes much further back than that it
cannot be proven by independent evidence. There has been a lot of
conjecture and some very amusing books written about the imagined
history but it is all conjecture. You are making a lot of conjecture
as well.
>The point about masonry is that it is good for preserving ancient
>knowledge. We today know a lot about the ancient Egyptians but far
>less about the Sumer civilization. Simply because the Egyptians built
>in stone and the Sumerians built mostly mud brick, which soon eroded.
>So the hidden meaning of Freemasonry would be the preserver of ancient
>knowledge because it is the work of stone masons that make this
>possible. Patriarchal religions like Christianity and Mohammadism
>tried to destroy all ancient knowledge, in which they were very
>successful because we today know very little about ancient
>civilizations.
Perhaps because most of the earlier civilisations did not know how to
write and therefore did not leave any record that could be deciphered.
>But I can't believe that scholars of the time were in
>agreement with this destruction and would of done all they could to
>preserve this knowledge. To do this they would of had to set up
>secret societies and probably Freemasonry was one of them.
>
Why? It doesn't need secret societies to preserve knowledge. Stone
tablets or scrolls sealed in jars would do just as well. Refer to the
Qumran or Dead Sea Scrolls.
>I have discovered far more Goddess connections in Freemasonry like the
>story of Gerald Gardner who started modern Witchcraft. He claimed he
>was a member of a secret ancient Goddess religion that still existed.
>He then broke the code of silence of this religion because of the
>repeal of the Witchcraft act in the 1950s. Today even Witches doubt
>if his story is true, they point out he was a Freemason and many of
>his Witchcraft rituals either come directly from Freemasonry or he
>made them up himself. But perhaps he wasn't telling lies. It
>Freemasonry was the ancient Goddess religion he was talking about then
>what he says may be true.
>
He was a member of what lodge and where? No one seems to be able to
answer this question. Of course, since Freemasonry is not a religion,
then, perhaps, what he says may not be true. He could have gone to the
public library, looked up the wording of several masonic rituals and
then modified it for use in his rituals. He would have to modify it
because it would not have suited his purpose without modification.
>The problem with this that Masons themselves admit their are different
>degrees of knowledge within Freemasonry.
Rubbish. Even if there were "inner circle" knowledge then the ordinary
members would know about it even if they were not able to learn it.
>This means their are secret
>societies within Freemasonry that the rank and file members don't know
>nothing about.
"Don't know nothing" implies that they do know something. Two
negatives make a positive you know.
>This suggests that only the inner circle of Masons
>would know about the secret Goddess within this organization. This
>then is probably why Freemasonry is still very much a secret society.
Some secret. You are able to write about it. If it is a secret how did
you find out if you are not a member.
I have never heard about anything like a goddess but I was only a
member of a Craft Lodge, a Mark Lodge and a Holy Royal Arch Chapter.
My father in law went up very high in the Craft Lodge becoming a
member of a Grand Lodge Team and ending with a rank of Past Senior
Grand Warden. He never mentioned anything about this sort of thing.
>Because this inner circle would know that Goddess worship is still
>unacceptable to the general public. They may of given Gerald Gardner
>some of it's inner knowledge to start modern Witchcraft to test the
>mood of the public. But while the general public is ignorant of the
>ancient Great Mother and still find this concept too weird and strange
>the inner circle of Freemasons will still keep their secret knowledge
>to themselves.
>
Freemasonry consists of three degrees or levels. In some jurisdictions
there is a fourth level which is restricted to installed masters of
lodges. All members know about them so they can not be called secret.
All members are able to advance to the level of Installed Master if
they so desire.
Outside of Craft Masonry you can join ancillary organisations such as
the York Rite or the Scottish Rite in America. In the rest of the
world these organisations are not usually known by those names. They
are splintered into the Holy Royal Arch, Mark Master Masons, Knights
Templar, Allied Masonic Degrees and others as separate organisations.
No one is forced to join any of these ancillary organisations but
anyone can join if they are a Master Mason. There are no secrets that
cannot be learned by anyone and everyone who is able to join the Craft
Lodges.
With the vast number of freemasons throughout the world, over five
million I'm told, it would be impossible to keep a secret, such as
Goddess worship for long, as someone, who was approached to learn
these supposed secrets, would object and blab all about it to the
newspapers and the other media. This hasn't happened in over three
hundred years and through millions of people.
Many people have claimed to have exposed the secrets of freemasonry.
They have written books, articles and even made films about those
secrets. Most of these authors have later proven to not be freemasons
at all or they are just sensationalising things or taking them
completely out of context. Most of the allegations involve the
supposed worship of Lucifer or Satan and are generally made by
fundamentalist type Christians with little or no understanding of what
is taught in a lodge or anywhere else for that matter.
Freemasonry does not impose any religious belief on its members. When
you apply to join you are asked if you believe in a "Supreme Being".
God is one thing that Supreme Being may be called. You could also call
it Goddess if you so desired. If you can answer that question in the
affirmative then no further questions are asked about your belief. If
you can't answer it in the affirmative then you may not be admitted to
most masonic orders.
--
Regards
David Simpson (Remove "farook" to reply)
(Unattached MM)
Old age and treachery will always overcome
youth and skill.
Duke of URL
news:wPPG8.480$o%.64213@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
> that's it. I was interested in the C.B.C.S. and needed Master Mason
Hey, burzle, what IS the CBCS that Restivo wanted into?
Richard White
Ooops! Here comes another one! Don't they have a newsgroup for people
like this? (alt.monster.raving.loony.party or the somewhat simpler
alt.nutters perhaps?)
I havn't bothered to dissect it in detail, but the following points stand
out:-
> Freemasonry is a secret society but why it is a still a secret society
> in the 21 century is a mystery.
It isn't a secret society.
[...snipped...]
> The most well Mason symbol is that of the compass and square. But I
> couldn't help noticing that the space between the two tools can be
> seen as a vagina.
The Square and Compasses (not "compass") don't look like a vagina, nor can
they been "seen as" one.
[...snipped...]
> Also in Freemasonry symbols we find a very large amount of Goddesses.
> They off course are not called Goddesses but in symbolic pictures we
> find a image of a women at the top of the picture. And in other
> pictures Freemasonry is shown in the image of a woman.
Please provide examples (ie. detailed graphics we can look at) of these
supposedly Masonic symbols and pictures.
Meanwhile, I'll pre-empt your reply: there are no such symbols and
pictures, and either your eyesight or your mind very definitely needs
attention.
[...snipped...]
> The number 13 is seen a lot in Freemasonry symbolism [...snipped...]
Please provide examples. I have yet to see the number 13 to be significant
at all in Freemasonry.
[...snipped...]
> Then there is "The Three Great Lights Of Freemasonry". These symbols
> are apparently so important that no Masonic Lodge can meet unless they
> are displayed. On top we find the image of a beehive,
Which is not a commonly used masonic symbol - except in US freemasonry. In
many Grand Lodges it doesn't figure at all.
Also, the beehive is not a Great Light in Freemasony.
> [...snipped...] The
> next great light is the compass and square symbol which looks
> suspiciously like a vagina symbol. This is placed on a open book
> which people assume is the holy bible.
Which is NOT a "vagina symbol" or even like one. The open book you refer
to is most commonly the Christian Bible, but not necessarily so.
> On the picture I have seen we
> see the word John on top of the page. Now in the book, "Jesus and the
> lost Goddess" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy they claim that the
> gospel of John was originally the called the gospel of Mary Magdelene.
> So again we have a feminine religious symbol.
So, by your perverse reasoning, the word "John" is a "feminine religious
symbol". I could equally reason that you are a complete nutter. I
wonder which of our reasonings is more likely to be right?
Freke and Gandy can claim all they like. David Icke for example claims the
world is secretly ruled by "lizards" disguised as human beings. What such
people claim, and what is reality, are often two completely different
things.
> The third symbol is
> that of Noah's ark. Ships can be also seen as a feminine symbol but
> this probably means more than this.
Sounds like you've been looking at a Royal Ark Mariner exhibit. I'm not
aware of Noah's ark in Craft Freemasonry. But, whatever, Noah's Ark is also
NOT a Great Light in Freemasonry; neither is it a "feminine symbol".
[...snipped...]
> The problem with this that Masons themselves admit their are different
> degrees of knowledge within Freemasonry. This means their are secret
> societies within Freemasonry that the rank and file members don't know
> nothing about.
Isn't it amazing, that there are STILL these people who, not being
Freemasons themselves, seem to think they know more about it and some
"secret societies within Freemasonry" than most Freemasons are supposed not
to know about.
I wonder where they get their "information" from? <lol>
Bye bye ------|
|
\|/
plink! into the iggy file
S & F Regards,
Richard White
WM Old Olavians Lodge No. 5758
Almoner &
JW/PM Addington Lodge No. 5080
M.E. "Z" Haroldslea Chapter No. 7328
UGLE (incl. SGC)
ChStwd/PM H.A. Mann Lodge of MMM No. 1197
GLMMME
Member MBBFMN No. 395
http://mastermason.com/old-olavians-lodge/
Please visit this new site and sign the guest book
http://www.geocities.com/freemasonry_masons/
Lee Duncan
declared him incorrect, as the secret actual lies in vaginas.
However, in the immortal words of Dr. Sigmund Freud, "Sometimes a
cigar is just a cigar."
wab...@rocketmail.com (wabond) wrote in message news:<96e45fb1.02052...@posting.google.com>...
burzlebub
"Duke of URL" <MacB...@KDSI.net> wrote in message
news:ueno91p...@corp.supernews.com...
> > that's it. I was interested in the C.B.C.S. and needed Master Mason
>
> Hey, burzle, what IS the CBCS that Restivo wanted into?
hi duke
i've never seen it in other than it's abbreviated form!
i searched the internet and found it stands for "Chevaliers Bienfaisants de
la Cité Sainte"/"Knights Benefisant of the Holy City".
i shall give you the (duke of) u.r.l. to a webpage written by mike. well...
when i say written by mike, i mean plagiarised by mike. he ripped it off of
some web page.
http://www.geocities.com/crdpldl19/
regards
bryan
burzlebub
news:96e45fb1.02052...@posting.google.com...
> The most well Mason symbol is that of the compass and square. But I
> couldn't help noticing that the space between the two tools can be
> seen as a vagina.
what you mean to say is you *read* in some book that the shape is that the
space between the two tools can be seen as a petunia.
your mind, being open to suggestion, now sees it as resembling a petunia.
well... if you've never seen one before, may i suggest you go out more
often?
regards
bryan
Duke of URL
> "Duke of URL" <MacB...@KDSI.net> wrote in message
> news:ueno91p...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > > that's it. I was interested in the C.B.C.S. and needed Master Mason
> >
> > Hey, burzle, what IS the CBCS that Restivo wanted into?
>
> hi duke
>
> i've never seen it in other than it's abbreviated form!
>
> i searched the internet and found it stands for "Chevaliers Bienfaisants
de
>
> i shall give you the (duke of) u.r.l. to a webpage written by mike.
well...
> when i say written by mike, i mean plagiarised by mike. he ripped it off
of
> some web page.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/crdpldl19/
WAOW!!! I'm still not real clear on what they do, but that is one CLASSY
page. Lightning bolts and all! No wonder that wannabe wanted to join - I'll
bet they've got a classier uniform than the old-time KT (ours, not the
originals) wore for parades. Mikie probably wanted to wear it every day.
Pope Pompous Pilot
> Goddess worship is still unacceptable even today so this would be a
> strong posiblility.
>
There is no Goddess, but Goddess and Goddess is her name.
> I have been very interested in the ancient religion of the Great
> Mother for a long time. This ancient religion goes back to the Stone
> age where Paleolithic and Neolithic art is full on feminine images.
> Like numerous goddess carvings, and symbols of the vagina and the
> triangle of the women's pubic hair. All celebrating the life giving
> powers of the Great Mother. Where the vagina, menstruation, sex,
> child birth and breast feeding was once seen as being very sacred and
> holy. (see "The Language Of The Goddess by Marija Gimbutas").
>
The symbolism of synthesis (or creativity) is certainly replete in
Freemasonry. Some have interpreted it as you have. But this can be
done in all symbolic systems which have one set of dual symbols and a
combination of these symbols. Freemasonry certainly didn't invent it.
Neither did Christianity. The cross can be seen as having the same
symbolism. but again, this is true for nearly any system that
expresses the duad and monad building to the triad
Light - Dark
Male - Female
Vertical - Horizontal
Intellectual - Intuitive
Active - Passive
etc. etc.
While I do think that the Square and Compasses can be described as
expressing active and passive elements, I think it a very significant
strecth to say that the combination of these elements was designed as
a physical representation of the vulva.
It is much more likely that it is actually that overlapping of
alchemical triangles, which I think McNulty also covers.
-><-
Pope Pompous Pilot
Hodge Podge Lodge #23
H:.E:. A:.H:.D:.
burzlebub
> WAOW!!! I'm still not real clear on what they do, but that is one CLASSY
> page. Lightning bolts and all! No wonder that wannabe wanted to join -
I'll
> bet they've got a classier uniform than the old-time KT (ours, not the
> originals) wore for parades. Mikie probably wanted to wear it every day.
it's a shame, really... mike joined freemasonry with deception aforethought.
he had to suffer the sadomasochistic degredation of the initiation, of being
stripped and robbed. you'd have thought that would have been enough for the
sensitive little chap.
but no. just so as he could obtain master mason rank, mike subjected himself
to the horrors of being passed and raised. he's so brave.
he left shortly after that because he had obtained what he wanted
freemasonry had nothing to teach him.
you can imagine his chagrin when the c.b.c.s. didn't want him. freemasonry
doesn't want him back either...
this is how he came to be the bitter, twisted individual you see on the
forum today.
it's a real shame.
Duke of URL
Brings a (sniffle) tear to my eye, it does. Oh, no, wait - that was my
Peanut Butter & Onion sandwich. Oh well...
--
Moses Lambert PO1(SW) USN(Ret)
"To the terrorists of the world, heed this message, and learn from it: You
can run, but you cannot hide." Ronald Reagan
This email certified Anthrax-free per CDC Protocol 713.4.a.1
Resident ZOG Commissar for Central & Western Nebraska
ATTN ECHELON & CARNIVORE: Anthrax, Assassination, Atomic, Biowar, Bomb,
Insurrection, Nuclear, Plutonium, Revolution, Uranium...
-----BEGIN GCBv3.1-----
GHist$/L$/SS/TW d? s+:+ a++ C++ U--- P L-- E-- W++ N++ o? K- w+ O- M-- v?
PS-- PE++ Y PGP t+ 5 X-- R+++ tv-- b++++ DI++++ D--- G e++X2 h+ !r y+;-
-----END GCB-----
ERR 325: Talisker Not Found; Operator Halted
erik
Duke of URL <MacB...@kdsi.net> wrote:
: Brings a (sniffle) tear to my eye, it does. Oh, no, wait - that was my
: Peanut Butter & Onion sandwich. Oh well...
Tell me that is an aquired taste that you picked up on a dare. Please?
--
ttfn
------------
Erik J. Meyer
Constellation Lodge AF&AM (no, we don't have numbers)
Hermann-Dexter Lodge IOOF #133 Dedham, MA
www.mychip.org are you a turtle?
wabond
Well thank you for your interesting responses to my article. I'm
sorry I don't have the time to respond to each of your comments.
Some of you claim that Freemasonry is no longer a secret society.
Well any good mystery religion has its outer and inner mysteries.
Freemasonry may of revealed its outer mysteries but it clearly its
inner mysteries are still a closely guarded secret.
I am aware that the majority of Freemasons treat this organization as
only a gentleman's club, and do not have any interest in Freemasonry
symbolism or why this secret society was created in the first place.
Which fits in with normal human behaviour where you have the sheep and
goats. The sheep you give bullshit and if they are content with it,
you leave them alone. The goats are the ones who are willing to
question the bullshit. The goats are seen as dangerous and are either
sidelined, pushed out of the society or they are admitted into the
inner circle, depending on their attitude. Though it is more complex
than this as Freemasonry is fragmented into many different sects, this
means many sects would of lost contact with the origins of
Freemasonry.
Some of you claim their is not problem with Goddess worship today.
Well having become interested in Goddess religions over the last 25
years I can say with experience there is a big problem. Our society
has been brainwashed into believing God is a Male for the last two
thousand years or more, and people have problems it seeing god in any
other way. This is even true of feminist, who cling to a politically
correct ideal of a father and mother god. But the idea of a Feminine
Creatrix is still very much a taboo subject, in our society.
Some point out I seem to have a obsession with sex. Well in this I am
a normal human being. When the Internet first got started before the
censors started to move in, the main topic on the web was sex. Which
points to the fact that most of us are very interested in this
subject. The genius of Freud was that he did point out that human
beings have a obsession with sex but because of Judo-Christian
brainwashing this very powerful desire was being suppressed. The
result of this suppression of natural desires was in turn doing great
harm to the mental health of normal human beings.
The ancient pagan religions incorporated sex in their religions rites
because it was a powerful human emotion. It was only the later
patriarchal religions like Christianity, Mohammadism and Buddhism that
set about divorcing sex from religion, but why they did this is never
explained. So to have hidden sexual symbolism within Freemasonry
symbols points to the fact that its roots are in pagan mystery
religions that predate Christianity.
William Bond
Mike Restivo
You can come down from orbit anytime Lambert. The fact is that I
declined an invitation to join the C.B.C.S., as membership in it might
be considered by some membership in an irregular masonic body. ALthough
I am unaware of this web site, proper attribution has been given at the
bottom.
Mason stooges who claim Restivo plagiarized expose themselves for the
imbeciles and neurotics that they are; liars preaching to the deluded in
a symbiosis of mutual exploitation.
here is the text of the web page, unedited, for archival purposes:
-------------------------------------------------------------
JEAN-BAPTISTE
WILLERMOZ
AND THE
C.B.C.S.
Jean-Baptiste Willermoz was born at Lyons, France,
on July
10th, 1730. His father, Claude Cathrin Willermoz,
was a
haberdasher. J.B. Willermoz was educated at the
Trinity
School of Lyons. He opened his own silk business in
1754.
From 1750, when he was 20, Willermoz had been a
Freemason. In 1752, he was appointed Worshipful
Master of
his Lodge. In 1753, he founded the lLodge "La
Parfaite
Amitié"/"The Perfect Friendship"of which he is
elected
Master on St. Johns Day",June 24, 1753. In 1756,
this Lodge
joins the Mother Lodge of Lyons. Its charter of
regularisation
by the Grand Lodge of France is dated Nov. 21,
1756. On
May 4, 1760, the Worshipful Masters of the Lodge L
"Amité"/"Friendship"comprised of 20 members and "La
Parfaite Amitié" of 30 members and "Les Vrais
Amis"/"True
Friends" of 12 members, set up, with the approval
of the
Grand Lodge of France, A Provincial Mother Lodge
called
"Grand Loge des Maîtres Réguliers de Lyon" "Grand
Lodge
of Regular Masters of Lyons". Willermoz is
Provincial Grand
Master from 1762 to 1763 and thereafter becomes
Keeper of
the Seals and Archivist. In 1763, he founds the
"Souverain
Chapitre des Chevaliers de "Aigle Noir -
Rose-Croix"/"Sovereign Chapter of Knights of the
Black
Eagle - Rose-Croix".
In May of 1767, Willermoz undertakes a journey to
Paris,
where he meets Bacon de la Chevalerie, Deputy Grand
Master of the Elus Cohen. He is initiated by
Martinez himself
in Verailles, France. In 1772, Willermoz learnes of
the
existence of a German Masonic Order called the
"Rite of the
Strict Templar Observance". On Dec. 14, 1772,
Willermoz
applies by letter for affiliation. He receives an
answer dated
March 18, 1773 from Count Weiler. The Duke of
Brunswick
replaces Baron von Hund at the head of the Rite of
the Strict
Observance. From Aug. 11 to 13, 1772, Count Weiler
is in
Lyons, where he has come to personally establish a
Strict
Observance Lodge called "Loge Ecossaise Rectifiée
La
Bienfaisance"/"Scottish Rectified Lodge
Beneficence" In
Dec. 1777, three years after the death of Martiez
de
Pasqually, Rudolphe Salzmann, "Master of the
Novices of
the Directoire of Strasbourg" arrives in Lyons,
where he is
received as Elu-Cohen. We know that at the time,
the Order
of Elus-Cohen was suffering from internal
dissentions and
from a lack of leadership. Like many other sincere
members,
Willermoz can see that the Order was doomed and he
is
anxious to preserve all that can be saved. With the
help of
Saltzmann, and with the approval of Bacon de la
Chevalerie,
Willermoz conceives the project of implimenting the
Secret
Doctrine of the Elus-Cohen in the Rite of the
Strict
Observance. This he planned to do by adding to the
classes
of the Strict Observance, a higher class, called
"La
Profession"/"The Profession", called such because
its
members would be "professed", that is under
chivilric vows.
It contained two Degrees of "Le
Chevalier"/"Knight"and "Le
Profès"/"Professed", in which the doctrine of the
Elus-Cohen
would be transmitted, thus alleviating the
disparition of the
Réau-Croix. It was not the intention to implant the
operations
of the Elus-Cohen in the Strict Observance.
A general meeting called the Convent of Gaul was
held from
Nov. 25 to Dec. 10, 1778 in Lyons, at the
instigation of
Willermoz. It was decided to reform the Auvergne
Province
of the Strict Observance and the French Templars
took the
name of "Chevaliers Bienfaisants de la Cité
Sainte"/"Knights Benefisant of the Holy City",
commonly
referred to as "C.B.C.S." from the French name. It
was
absorbed into the "Scottish Rectified Rite" as
follows:
1st Degree -
Apprentice
2nd Degree -
Fellowcraft
3rd Degree -
Master
4th Degree - Maître
Ecossais/Scotch Master
5th Degree - Ecuyer
Novice/Squire Novice
6th Degree -
C.B.C.S.
7th Degree -
Chevalier-Profès/Professed Knight
8th Degree - Chevalier-Grand Profès/Grand
Professed Knight
After this reformation, Willermoz decided that it
would be
right to carry this action into the bosom of the
Mother
branch, the German Strict Observance. It was with
this
initiative in mind, that he went to the Convent of
Wilhemsbad in 1782. He found supporters of his plan
in the
Princes Ferdinand of Brunswick and Charles of
Hesse, but
found stiff opposition on the part of the
Illuminati of
Bavaria (founded by Adam Weishaupt) and met the
hostility
of Francois de Chefdebien de Saint-Amand,
representative
of the Order of the Pilalethes, and also resistance
from
Savalette de Lange. After heated arguments,
Willermoz and
his supporters won the day, and succeeded in having
the
title of C.B.C.S. adopted by all members of the
inner Order.
A comitte was formed under Willermoz to prepare the
high
degree rituals and those of the secret degrees of
the
Profession. This work was well advanced, when the
French
Revolution interrupted Willermoz" task. The
"Rectified"
temples of the C.B.C.S. and the temples of the
Elus-Cohen
still active, had to suspend their works. The
brethren were
dispersed by the events in France of the period.
After the Revolution, in 1806, the C.B.C.S. became
active
again in France and they soon joined the Grand
Orient with
which the Strict Observance had friendly relations.
We
have seen that the Elus-cohen had not officially
resumed
their Work. Their last Grand Master, Sebastian de
las
Casaa, had the archives of the Order handed over to
the
Philalethes. In 1806 moreover, Bacon de la
Chevalerie,
"Deputy Grand Master of the Norther Hemisphere",
sat in
this capacity in the Grand College of Rites of the
Grand
Orient of France. He tried to obtain the
authorization to
re-organize the Order of Elus-Cohen within the
Grand
Orient, but was refused. The Rite of Knights
Beneficent
passes into Switzerland when the Directoire of
Burgandy
transmits its powers to the Directoire of Helvetia.
It is from
this Swiss Jurisdiction, now headed by the Grand
Priory of
Helvetia, that the C.B.C.S. will be re-activated in
France
after World War II. On May 5, 1824, Jean-Baptist
Willermoz
died at Lyons.
By:Mike Restivo (Sar Ignatius,
Initiatèur Libre)
Text
taken from an
internet page
Moron Burzlebub con't read or understand English. This page at this
site which he referenced is taken from Restivo's web Martinist site.
Restivo's Martinist web pages are the site of the "internet page" to
which the above attribution refers.
For the never refuted true facts exposing the mason cult:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mtronics/anticult/masonicmenace/
Don't allow these hate propagandists and social terrorists to subvert
your free democracy and religion or threaten you. Get informed by
facts. Wake up free citizens! How many people have to die at the hands
of terrorist fanatics before liberty is taken seriously, not for
granted?
† Mike Restivo
Gene Zippy
>Hello Everyone
>
>Well thank you for your interesting responses to my article. I'm
>sorry I don't have the time to respond to each of your comments.
>
>Some of you claim that Freemasonry is no longer a secret society.
And the truth is that it never was.
>Well any good mystery religion has its outer and inner mysteries.
>Freemasonry may of revealed its outer mysteries but it clearly its
>inner mysteries are still a closely guarded secret.
So are those of sky-diving, driving a race car and willing the
lottery. No one really knows what it is like until they themselves do
it.
>I am aware that the majority of Freemasons treat this organization as
>only a gentleman's club, and do not have any interest in Freemasonry
>symbolism or why this secret society was created in the first place.
>Which fits in with normal human behaviour where you have the sheep and
>goats. The sheep you give bullshit and if they are content with it,
>you leave them alone. The goats are the ones who are willing to
>question the bullshit. The goats are seen as dangerous and are either
>sidelined, pushed out of the society or they are admitted into the
>inner circle, depending on their attitude. Though it is more complex
>than this as Freemasonry is fragmented into many different sects, this
>means many sects would of lost contact with the origins of
>Freemasonry.
What "sects" are you referring to? The different jurisdictions?
>Some of you claim their is not problem with Goddess worship today.
>Well having become interested in Goddess religions over the last 25
>years I can say with experience there is a big problem.
Yes, but I hear that they have wonderful new therapies now, which
address your problem.
[remaining nonsense snipped]
Duke of URL
news:ache4p$4rj$1...@news.ca.inter.net...
> : Brings a (sniffle) tear to my eye, it does. Oh, no, wait - that was my
> : Peanut Butter & Onion sandwich. Oh well...
>
> Tell me that is an aquired taste that you picked up on a dare. Please?
Oh, heavens no. It's delicious - especially when you use rye bread and a
slice of Vidalia 1/2-3/4 inch thick. That's been a staple in my family as
far back as I can find - my grandmother said many years ago that she ate
them as a child. I actually didn't realize there was any other way to fix a
PB until I was in the Navy and saw PB&J. I like that now, too, but not as
much. You really ought to try it.
burzlebub
(mikey's new audience (cross-posting) deleted)
> Mason stooges who claim Restivo plagiarized expose themselves for the
> imbeciles and neurotics that they are;
mike. you *are* a plagiarist. i remember you included this quote in one of
your posts.
"Infidelity does not consist in believing or disbelieving, it consists in
professing to believe what one does not believe ." - Anglo-American
political and civil rights activist, Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809)
i thought it looked familiar. i wondered where i had seen it before...
mikey's original aphorisms!
needless to say, by the time i had looked at your site, you had removed it
from your page. you are a plagiarist.
no mistake made there, mikey. plagiarist.
you have been ignoring my posts for a while now so i carefully laid a "psych
bomb" in my post and you rushed headlong into it. i knew my carefully laid
plan would bring forward the criminally minded restivo... he doth protest
too much.
> liars preaching to the deluded in a symbiosis of mutual exploitation.
no lies, mikey... you are a plagiarist and the only exploitation around here
is that of the women found in your pornography.
> here is the text of the web page, unedited, for archival purposes:
why on earth would anyone want to archive that? it's as bereft of artistic
and technological talent as the rest of your site. i'm sure people would
rather archive the other page.
> Moron Burzlebub con't read or understand English.
yes i con.
> This page at this
> site which he referenced is taken from Restivo's web Martinist site.
> Restivo's Martinist web pages are the site of the "internet page" to
> which the above attribution refers.
i know, mike. you just had to say something though, didn't you.
you profess to be able to lead the masons around by their c.t.s, don't you?
well... i know how to press your buttons, boy.
don't forget, mikey... you are my beeyatch!
regards
burzlebub
m.s. (masonic stooge)
notyet lodge no. 123
Richard White
> "Mike Restivo" <mtro...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3CECE53C...@sympatico.ca...
> (mikey's new audience (cross-posting) deleted)
[...snipped...]
> you profess to be able to lead the masons around by their c.t.s, don't
you?
> well... i know how to press your buttons, boy.
>
> don't forget, mikey... you are my beeyatch!
Hi Bryan,
I remember some while back you said that "mikey" was your "friend". I'm so
pleased to see you having such fun with your friend. I hope you continue to
have many years in such an enjoyable relationship.
Or maybe not?
David Simpson
wrote:
>First Mr. Moser seeing phalluses everywhere...now Mr. Bond has
>declared him incorrect, as the secret actual lies in vaginas.
>However, in the immortal words of Dr. Sigmund Freud, "Sometimes a
>cigar is just a cigar."
>
It's a pity we don't know the words of Monica!
David Simpson
>Hello Everyone
>
>Well thank you for your interesting responses to my article. I'm
>sorry I don't have the time to respond to each of your comments.
>
>Some of you claim that Freemasonry is no longer a secret society.
>Well any good mystery religion has its outer and inner mysteries.
>Freemasonry may of revealed its outer mysteries but it clearly its
>inner mysteries are still a closely guarded secret.
>
Are you a freemason?
NE Corner
Are you a freemason?,
in response to Mr Bond's:
>Well any good mystery religion has its outer and inner mysteries.
Is it not already evident from his somewhat 'odd' perception of freemasonry
that he is not?!
NE Corner
remove forreal to email
burzlebub
"Richard White" <whi...@gmx.co.uk> wrote in message
news:acjbif$4cu$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
> Hi Bryan,
>
> I remember some while back you said that "mikey" was your "friend". I'm
so
> pleased to see you having such fun with your friend. I hope you continue
to
> have many years in such an enjoyable relationship.
i said he was my friend and i wanted him to be my friend but in his own
inimitable style, threw that offer of friendship in my face.
i shall enjoy myself pressing his buttons, until i make a promise to conduct
myself in a certain manner
> Or maybe not?
definitely.
regards
bryan
David E. Eaton, Sr.
>On 22 May 2002 23:48:22 -0700, wab...@rocketmail.com (wabond) wrote:
>
>Some of you claim their is not problem with Goddess worship today.
>Well having become interested in Goddess religions over the last 25
>years I can say with experience there is a big problem.
Well, Mr. Bond, having considerably more experience than your 25 years, I'd
have to ask where this "big problem" is. Have you ever heard of (or been
to) New Hope, PA?
--
Regards,
David E. Eaton, Sr., MM, MPS
Virtus junxit mors non separabit
dea...@hotmail.com
Burlington Lodge #32, F&AM
http://users.erols.com/washcrossfdn/cover.htm
Grand Lodge of New Jersey
www.njfreemasonry.org
Odenton Lodge #209, AF&AM
Grand Lodge of Maryland
David Simpson
wrote:
>David Simpson wrote:
>
>Are you a freemason?,
>
>in response to Mr Bond's:
>
>>Well any good mystery religion has its outer and inner mysteries.
>
>Is it not already evident from his somewhat 'odd' perception of freemasonry
>that he is not?!
>
Why not let him answer for himself if he is willing.
Gene Zippy
<REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>i said he was my friend and i wanted him to be my friend but in his own
>inimitable style, threw that offer of friendship in my face.
I have come to understand that such is precisely how Mike expresses
feelings of friendship.
>i shall enjoy myself pressing his buttons, until i make a promise to conduct
>myself in a certain manner
Mike is a unique individual, and once you accept him as he is, and
stop having unreasonable expectations of him, he can be quite amusing.
Steven M. Hudson
>
> i shall enjoy myself pressing his buttons, until i make a promise to
conduct
> myself in a certain manner
>
At the risk of sounding too much like Restivo -- why wait? On the other
hand, if you don't truly _want_ to conduct yourself in a certain manner then
why make such a promise.
Look, verbally abuse Mike on Usenet or don't. It's up to you now and will
still be up to you after any 'promises' you might make. As Bro. Gene
frequently points out, there doesn't appear to be any Masonic law governing
Usenet flame wars. And, difference of opinion, even when accompanied by
ad-hominem 'reasoning', name-calling or general derision is still not a
Masonic offence in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.
The _value_ of such behavior can be debated all day and, after almost two
years reading this board I could probably present both sides pretty fairly.
But at the end of the day, it's a personal choice based solely on who you
want to be, informed by the values that you hold.
So flame on bud. Punch those buttons. Enjoy yourself. You are certainly
aware that Mike will continue to give you the reactions you are trying to
evoke. Really, I'm not being facetious. The 'porn' issue is practically
scripted by this late in the game and in my opinion ALL parties, Mike, Ed,
Gene, (even myself) can be counted on to behave in expected ways. So, if
you're going to play the game -- play it with all you've got.
But in my opinion, if you think you'll have to stop at some later point
because it will no longer be appropriate, why do it now?
Steve .'.
Jerusalem Lodge No. 49
Ridgefield, CT
Gene Zippy
<steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
>At the risk of sounding too much like Restivo -- why wait? On the other
>hand, if you don't truly _want_ to conduct yourself in a certain manner then
>why make such a promise.
Set goals that are attainable, and once they are set, pursue them.
>Look, verbally abuse Mike on Usenet or don't. It's up to you now and will
>still be up to you after any 'promises' you might make. As Bro. Gene
>frequently points out, there doesn't appear to be any Masonic law governing
>Usenet flame wars. And, difference of opinion, even when accompanied by
>ad-hominem 'reasoning', name-calling or general derision is still not a
>Masonic offence in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.
Nope, sure isn't. And I see no reason why a fraternity - any
fraternity - should be so involved in governing members' behavior.
>The _value_ of such behavior can be debated all day and, after almost two
>years reading this board I could probably present both sides pretty fairly.
>But at the end of the day, it's a personal choice based solely on who you
>want to be, informed by the values that you hold.
Absolutely. And the priorities one may have will change from time to
time, with changes in other factors. Long-term commitments to, or not
to, engage in such leisure activities are - IMHBCO - an unwise
exercise in failure.
>So flame on bud. Punch those buttons. Enjoy yourself. You are certainly
>aware that Mike will continue to give you the reactions you are trying to
>evoke. Really, I'm not being facetious. The 'porn' issue is practically
>scripted by this late in the game and in my opinion ALL parties, Mike, Ed,
>Gene, (even myself) can be counted on to behave in expected ways. So, if
>you're going to play the game -- play it with all you've got.
Again, I agree. Play, don't play, read Mike's messages, don't read
them. Don't make empty threats or meaningless promises.
>But in my opinion, if you think you'll have to stop at some later point
>because it will no longer be appropriate, why do it now?
I'll take it a step further and say that if you are asking yourself if
you should stop, you probably should.
wabond
say i am not. I probably have to break the fremasons oath to say what
i do.
William Bond
David Simpson <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote in message news:<51ereu85bdrcg4da5...@4ax.com>...
Steven M. Hudson
"Gene Zippy Goldman.·." <br_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:dtqseuktri50o9ulo...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 24 May 2002 15:33:15 GMT, "Steven M. Hudson"
> <steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
> I'll take it a step further and say that if you are asking yourself if
> you should stop, you probably should.
>
That's an excellent point as well and a pretty good guide for 'subduing the
passions'. Though I have to admit that _anything_ can be taken too far --
speaking as one who has a tendency towards sometimes excessive
self-criticism :-).
Never-the-less, one of my 'rules and guides' that I do my best to keep is:
"What can be done, but not talked about is best not done.
What can be talked about, but not done, is best not talked about."
Have a happy long weekend brother!!
Steve .'.
Gene Zippy
>In response to David Simpson's question if i am a Freemason. I have to
>say i am not.
Obviously.
>I probably have to break the fremasons oath to say what i do.
You would? Why?
There is nothing in our obligations, nor in our rules, that say we
cannot discuss our occupations, or even our past times with anyone we
want.
Even if there were, as you admit that you are not a Mason, and
therefore not subject to our rules, much less our obligations (we
actually do not have "oaths", that is Boy Scouts and Jury members or
witnesses in courts of law), what is it you think restricts *you* from
talking about yourself?
You post much nonsense. Why?
Gene Zippy
<steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> I'll take it a step further and say that if you are asking yourself if
>> you should stop, you probably should.
>
>That's an excellent point as well and a pretty good guide for 'subduing the
>passions'.
Sure is. I wish I thought of it.
Oh.
<s>
>Though I have to admit that _anything_ can be taken too far --
Even moderation?
>speaking as one who has a tendency towards sometimes excessive
>self-criticism :-).
>
>Never-the-less, one of my 'rules and guides' that I do my best to keep is:
>
>"What can be done, but not talked about is best not done.
> What can be talked about, but not done, is best not talked about."
>
>Have a happy long weekend brother!!
"You got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going,
because you might not get there."
You too, my friend.
burzlebub
"Steven M. Hudson" <steve....@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:%2tH8.2633$t23.72...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> But in my opinion, if you think you'll have to stop at some later point
> because it will no longer be appropriate, why do it now?
excellent points and duly noted!
at the moment i do try to conduct myself in an appropriate manner but if i
feel in a cantankerous mood, i take it out on mike... it's better than
taking it out on my loved ones!
at a later date, i shall continue to point out mike's mistakes, hypocrisy,
etc. but i shall more than likely be more gentle with him.
gene seems to manage it!
regards
bryan
burzlebub
> <steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >At the risk of sounding too much like Restivo -- why wait? On the other
> >hand, if you don't truly _want_ to conduct yourself in a certain manner
then
> >why make such a promise.
>
> Set goals that are attainable, and once they are set, pursue them.
that's what i meant... you just put it more eloquently!
> >Look, verbally abuse Mike on Usenet or don't. It's up to you now and
will
> >still be up to you after any 'promises' you might make. As Bro. Gene
> >frequently points out, there doesn't appear to be any Masonic law
governing
> >Usenet flame wars. And, difference of opinion, even when accompanied by
> >ad-hominem 'reasoning', name-calling or general derision is still not a
> >Masonic offence in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.
>
> Nope, sure isn't. And I see no reason why a fraternity - any
> fraternity - should be so involved in governing members' behavior.
i shall be governing my own behaviour.
> Don't make empty threats or meaningless promises.
what? you mean like mikey? ;^)
> >But in my opinion, if you think you'll have to stop at some later point
> >because it will no longer be appropriate, why do it now?
>
> I'll take it a step further and say that if you are asking yourself if
> you should stop, you probably should.
it's called making the most of it! :^)
regards
bryan
Steven M. Hudson
> On Fri, 24 May 2002 18:45:39 GMT, "Steven M. Hudson"
> <steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Though I have to admit that _anything_ can be taken too far --
>
> Even moderation?
>
And here I took out the Poor Richard reference because I thought it was
cliche'
;-)
Gene Zippy
<steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> >Though I have to admit that _anything_ can be taken too far --
>>
>> Even moderation?
>>
>
>And here I took out the Poor Richard reference because I thought it was
>cliche'
>
>;-)
I prefer Yogi Berra, or Mike restivo for quotes, but Poor Richard is
good, too.
Gene Zippy
<REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>at the moment i do try to conduct myself in an appropriate manner but if i
>feel in a cantankerous mood, i take it out on mike... it's better than
>taking it out on my loved ones!
Absolutely. Mike is a big boy, he can handle it.
>at a later date, i shall continue to point out mike's mistakes, hypocrisy,
>etc. but i shall more than likely be more gentle with him.
>
>gene seems to manage it!
I actually find it easy. Once I saw Mike for who and what he is, and
stopped having unreasonable expectations of him, his antics stopped
being anything more than an amusement to me. Mike being Mike. I
enjoy the rapport we have between us. I sometimes wish he were more
like he used to be, stay on topic, share his thoughts, rather than
vent his spleen at every opportunity, but what can you do? Mike is
Mike, and it is unreasonable to expect him to be anything else.
So, I saw two choices. Ignore him - depriving myself of the enjoyment
his posts bring to my life, or accept him for himself, and enjoy him
on that basis.
It's kind of freeing, actually. I know I *can* say anything to him,
in any tone, and no one would think any differently about me -
especially Mike. So, knowing that, I do not have to. Instead, I can
apply my compass to the task, and get more practice in it's judicious
use.
The best part is that I know that I can invite anyone to read my
responses to his outbursts, without concern. Mike may "report" me to
whoever he wants, and I will stand behind my words. I accept full
responsibility for what I say, without hesitation. If I will not be
willing to accept that responsibility, I do not say the words. Simple
as that.
Finally, I believe that Mike deserves our respect, and gentleness.
Every creature has claim to our kind offices, and one such as Mike, in
whom the need is so evident, more than most.
Gene Zippy
<REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Set goals that are attainable, and once they are set, pursue them.
>
>that's what i meant... you just put it more eloquently!
Nah, I just said it better, that's all.
<s>
>> Nope, sure isn't. And I see no reason why a fraternity - any
>> fraternity - should be so involved in governing members' behavior.
>
>i shall be governing my own behaviour.
As you should, tempering it with the teachings you have received.
>> Don't make empty threats or meaningless promises.
>
>what? you mean like mikey? ;^)
Well, I mean like someone who claims to have knowledge of a crime and
holds that knowledge like an extortionist, keeping it from the proper
legal authorities, who can best, and properly, make use of it.
>> I'll take it a step further and say that if you are asking yourself if
>> you should stop, you probably should.
>
>it's called making the most of it! :^)
"Do!
Or do not!
There is no try."
Master Yoda - Episode 4
burzlebub
> >> I'll take it a step further and say that if you are asking yourself if
> >> you should stop, you probably should.
> >
> >it's called making the most of it! :^)
>
> "Do!
> Or do not!
> There is no try."
> Master Yoda - Episode 4
mmm! remember your words i will!
regards
bryan
burzlebub
very wise. are you green, with pointy ears, gene?
"Gene Zippy Goldman.·." <br_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:pc6teuccvhooq7pl8...@4ax.com...
Jack Hickey
>In response to David Simpson's question if i am a Freemason.
>I have to say i am not.
I thought that was fairly evident from the start.
>I probably have to break the fremasons oath to say what i do.
Umm ... no.
First, you wouldn't have to worry about breaking any "oath" with what
you have posted here, since you've never taken one.
Second, you are free to speculate all you like about the meaning of
Masonic symbols. Many respected Masonic writers have done the
same. You shouldn't let the fact that you find, here, widespread
disagreement with the meanings you see in those symbols deter you --
your original post was far more on-topic than most we see here.
You see symbolic vaginas in Masonic symbols. Good on you. Our
friend Sam sees penises everywhere. You two ought to get together.
Personally, when I look at Masonic symbolism, I tend to see building
tools; possibly a regrettable lack of imagination on my part.
Drive on, Mr. Bond.
Jack Hickey
Master, Isaiah Thomas Lodge
Worcester MA USA
www.geocities.com/isaiahthomas2001/
Gene Zippy
<REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>very wise. are you green, with pointy ears, gene?
Curious, my apprentice is.
So many questions....
Be mindful of your teachings, young Mason.
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
Mike's friend
NE Corner
I am a bank official but have been a scientific researcher and policeman......
the gauntlet is thrown......what do you do that you believe might in any case
could break any imagined 'oath'?
Gene Zippy
wrote:
>So what DO you do?
>
>I am a bank official but have been a scientific researcher and policeman......
>
>the gauntlet is thrown......what do you do that you believe might in any case
>could break any imagined 'oath'?
Oath that, by her own admission, she never took?
burzlebub
"Gene Zippy Goldman.·." <br_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:6f9teuc4kebi0j58q...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 24 May 2002 21:22:22 +0100, "burzlebub"
> <REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >very wise. are you green, with pointy ears, gene?
>
>
> Curious, my apprentice is.
> So many questions....
> Be mindful of your teachings, young Mason.
add this to the end of your sig, master zippoid. (looks better in plain
text)
"long enough, a sig can not be!"
.--. Try not.
::\`--._,'.::.`._.--'/:: Do or do not.
::::. ` __::__ ' .:::: There is no try.
::::::-:.`'..`'.:-::::::
::::::::\ `--' /:::::::: -Yoda
regards
bryan streetstroller
Gene Zippy
<REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"long enough, a sig can not be!"
Like this?
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Eugene Goldman P.*. M.*.(squared)
p.m. Black Mountain Lodge, #845, San Diego, Ca. http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
p.m. Blackmer Lodge #442, San Diego, Ca. http://www.calodges.org/no442
Southern Ca. Research Lodge http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
AFCW Heavyweight Champian of the World
Morally Superior Official Lord Chief High Exhaulted Omnipotent Boss Rogue Cult-Minded Fanatic Hate-Filled Queer-Writing Deceptive Attacking Enforcer Goon Cyber Terrorist Newsgroup Stalker Thug Sadist Hate Representative
-------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK--------
GCM/CC/TW/O d--(++) s:,s++ a+ C+(++++) U--- P! L-- E! W++ N+++ o-- K- w++++ O---- M--(+) V? PS+++ Y+ PGP-- t* 5 X- R* tv+++ b++ DI+++ D G e* h---- r+++ y++++
--------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----------
San Diego, California, USA
May Brotherly Love forever prevail, and every moral and social Virtue cement us.
Illegitimi non Carborundum
Per Fimos Tauroram Ad Gloriam
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
----------GEEK POEM BEGIN-------
<>!*''#
^"`$$-
!*=@$_
%*<>~#4
&[]../
|{,,SYSTEM HALTED
------GEEK POEM END------
Anyone inferring from my posting a Usenet message that I thereby request advertisements, spam, or unsolicited offers for goods or services will be invoiced for my usual and customary consulting fees, and I do NOT come cheap!
They can have my [Backspace] key when they pry it from my cold, dead, fingers.
Give me [Backspace] or give me death.
[Backspace]: use it or lose it.
[Backspace]: The key of Champions!
Got [Backspace]?
[Backspace]! It's what's for dinner.
Objects in this tagline are funnier than they appear.
Eg:
"An honest and normal person would not be interested in porn."
"11. One who proffers false charges knowingly, has the Devil for a counsel."
"117. Character assassination is the tool of preference of the despot"
"An honest contestant would quote and refute. You do neither but rant nonsense."
"You can't really expect to be taken seriously by normal minds."
"102. Paraphrase of quotations is the colloquialism of the cultured."
"I never represent my opinion as fact."
(Name of the admitted pornographer who coined the above phrases ommitted because it embarrased him to be reminded of his words.)
Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations?
If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed... oh, wait. He does.
Are you a Turtle?
Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations?
If you can read this, you have gone to far.
Please close cover before striking.
Void where prohibited by law.
Post no bills.
Contents may have settled during shipment.
Use before expiration date.
No plant material was harmed during the production of this message.
Had this been an actual message, you would have been instructed where to look for news and official information.
Cleanup on aisle four.
Good natured sarcasm is no substitute for genuine crankiness.
The White zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passangers only. There is no parking in the Red zone.
All those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand.
I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
OK, so what's the speed of dark?
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark.
Many people quit looking for work when they find a job.
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.
Objects in the window are more technical than they appear.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case.....coincidence?
When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded.
What happens if you get scared
Gene Zippy
>>"long enough, a sig can not be!"
>
>Like this?
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Eugene Goldman P.*. M.*.(squared)
p.m. Black Mountain Lodge, #845, San Diego, Ca.
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
p.m. Blackmer Lodge #442, San Diego, Ca. http://www.calodges.org/no442
Southern Ca. Research Lodge http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
AFCW Heavyweight Champion of the World
omitted because it embarrassed him to be reminded of his words.)
Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations?
If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed... oh,
wait. He does.
Are you a Turtle?
Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations?
If you can read this, you have gone to far.
Please close cover before striking.
Void where prohibited by law.
Post no bills.
Contents may have settled during shipment.
Use before expiration date.
No plant material was harmed during the production of this message.
Had this been an actual message, you would have been instructed where
to look for news and official information.
Cleanup on aisle four.
Good natured sarcasm is no substitute for genuine crankiness.
The White zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers
only. There is no parking in the Red zone.
All those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand.
I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
OK, so what's the speed of dark?
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark.
Many people quit looking for work when they find a job.
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.
Objects in the window are more technical than they appear.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case.....coincidence?
When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded.
What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
No one is listening until you make a mistake.
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view.
The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required to be on
it.
The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the
bread.
The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism -- to steal from many is
research.
Skill and science will always win out over dunghouse luck and
superstition.
Use your bandwidth. If you don't, it will go stale.
96.37% of all statistics are made up
Who said that.
All generalizations are wrong, even this one.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, however...
You're not really paranoid. They just want you to THINK you are.
"long enough, a sig can not be!"
.--. Try not.
::\`--._,'.::.`._.--'/:: Do or do not.
::::. ` __::__ ' .:::: There is no try.
::::::-:.`'..`'.:-::::::
::::::::\ `--' /:::::::: -Yoda
Be seeing you
burzlebub
kewl! a sig longer than one of mikey's posts!! :^)
"Gene Zippy Goldman.·." <br_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:q0fteu8gb4rg40j5n...@4ax.com...
Gene Zippy
<REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>kewl! a sig longer than one of mikey's posts!! :^)
It took a lot of effort, and many years to construct, but yes.
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
Mike's friend
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
http://mastermason.com/BrotherGene
http://www.mastermason.com/BrotherGene/frequently_asked_questions.htm
MBBFMN #387
ICQ #503060
************************************
"Are you guys ready? Let's Roll!!"
Todd Beamer, Flight 93
************************************
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Remember: Your Masonry may be different from someone else's.
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 2002. All rights reserved.
Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose, permission may be granted to others upon request.
Objects in this post are funnier than they appear
Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations?
Be seeing you
burzlebub
but you couldn't have done it without mike's help, you "Morally Superior ...
... Hate Representative", you! ;^)
regards
bryan
"Gene Zippy Goldman.·." <br_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:bgsteu0dlrtrj7f58...@4ax.com...
Gene Zippy
<REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>but you couldn't have done it without mike's help, you "Morally Superior ...
>... Hate Representative", you! ;^)
Quite honestly, there are several people here from whom I have learned
an incredible amount, and deserve much credit, whose names might be
surprising. Mike Restivo, in particular, has taught me a lot about
subduing my passions, and more importantly, what those passions may
induce me to do.
burzlebub
> On Sat, 25 May 2002 03:23:32 +0100, "burzlebub"
> <REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >but you couldn't have done it without mike's help, you "Morally Superior
...
> >... Hate Representative", you! ;^)
>
> subduing my passions, and more importantly, what those passions may
> induce me to do.
amen to that, gene.
goodnight, mate.
regards
bryan
Gene Zippy
<REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >but you couldn't have done it without mike's help, you "Morally Superior
>> >... Hate Representative", you! ;^)
>> ...Mike Restivo, in particular, has taught me a lot about
>> subduing my passions, and more importantly, what those passions may
>> induce me to do.
>amen to that, gene.
>
>goodnight, mate.
Have a pleasant weekend.
Jack Hickey
Freemasonry-as-Goddess worship. It is nice to know that there are
so many non-Masons out there who know us so much better than we Masons
know ourselves, and are so willing to teach Masons the true meaning of
Masonry.
A few minor comments on your post, if'n you don't mind.
On 21 May 2002 23:08:35 -0700, wab...@rocketmail.com (wabond) wrote:
>Freemasonry is a secret society but why it is a still a secret society
>in the 21 century is a mystery.
First fallacy, Mr. Bond. Freemasonry is not a secret society in any
meaningful sense of the term. You know about it; there have been
books written about it (I enjoy Katherine Kurtz's novels, fanciful
though they may be); there have been movies about it, some of them
more or less factual; there are even USEnet newsgroups dedicated to
it. Freemasons tend to be proud of their membership and (at least
in the USA) announce it widely.
That's a heck of a way for a "secret society" to act, IMO.
>Secret societies made sense a few
>hundred years ago when you could be murdered for having the wrong
>religious beliefs.
... and still can be, in many places. Most of the mid-East.
Parts of Northern Ireland. New York City.
>Goddess worship is still unacceptable even today so this would be a
>strong posiblility.
Unacceptable to whom? I don't share those beliefs, but I have no
problem with those who do. I can think of a few Goddess
worshippers whom I consider to be very good friends. I can think
of a few Goddess-worshippers whom I have hosted in my Lodge.
You are painting with far too broad a brush, here.
>Then some time ago I picked up in my local library the book called
>"Freemasonry" by W. Kirk MacNulty. Now this book is full of
>Freemasonry symbolism and I couldn't fail to notice that it's
>symbolism was very similar to that of the Goddess symbols of the Stone
>Age.
*sigh* There is no inherent meaning in any symbol. A symbol
means exactly and precisely that, and only that, which we impose upon
it. The same symbol can have different meanings for different
people; in fact, the same symbol can have different meanings at
different times for the same person.
>The most well Mason symbol is that of the compass and square. But I
>couldn't help noticing that the space between the two tools can be
>seen as a vagina.
You really need to get out more.
>Also in Freemasonry symbols we find a very large amount of Goddesses.
I can't think of one immediately. Give a reference, please.
>The number 13 is seen a lot in Freemasonry symbolism,
Give a reference, please.
>Then there is "The Three Great Lights Of Freemasonry". These symbols
>are apparently so important that no Masonic Lodge can meet unless they
>are displayed.
This is absolutely correct. No Masonic lodge can meet unless the
Lights are displayed. You are incorrect in delineating them,
though.
>On top we find the image of a beehive,
The Three Great Lights of Freemasonry are the Holy Bible, Square and
Compasses. The beehive is *a* symbol of the third degree in the
ritual as performed here, but it has no part of the degree in the
ritual performed in other places. The same with the Ark.
The beehive and the ark are NOT rpt NOT "great lights of Freemasonry."
>This is placed on a open book which people assume is the holy bible.
I don't have to "assume" that the book is a Bible. The one I use is
a King James Version, printed in 1870, and it weighs about thirty
pounds.
>The problem with this that Masons themselves admit their are different
>degrees of knowledge within Freemasonry.
There are "different degrees of knowledge" within every single form of
human endeavour you can name.
>This means their are secret societies within Freemasonry that the
>rank and file members don't know nothing about.
I don't see how you can make a leap like this, from "different degrees
of knowledge" to the existence of secret societies within Freemasonry.
How do you make this connection?
Jack Hickey
Umm ... no.
Drive on, Mr. Bond.
Mike Restivo
>
> "burzlebub" <REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MYcH8.2526$FZ4.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > i shall enjoy myself pressing his buttons, until i make a promise to
> conduct
> > myself in a certain manner
> >
> Hi Bryan,
>
> At the risk of sounding too much like Restivo -- why wait? On the other
> hand, if you don't truly _want_ to conduct yourself in a certain manner then
> why make such a promise.
>
> still be up to you after any 'promises' you might make. As Bro. Gene
> frequently points out, there doesn't appear to be any Masonic law governing
> Usenet flame wars. And, difference of opinion, even when accompanied by
> ad-hominem 'reasoning', name-calling or general derision is still not a
> Masonic offence in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.
>
> years reading this board I could probably present both sides pretty fairly.
> But at the end of the day, it's a personal choice based solely on who you
> want to be, informed by the values that you hold.
>
> So flame on bud. Punch those buttons. Enjoy yourself. You are certainly
> aware that Mike will continue to give you the reactions you are trying to
> evoke. Really, I'm not being facetious. The 'porn' issue is practically
> scripted by this late in the game and in my opinion ALL parties, Mike, Ed,
> Gene, (even myself) can be counted on to behave in expected ways. So, if
> you're going to play the game -- play it with all you've got.
>
> But in my opinion, if you think you'll have to stop at some later point
> because it will no longer be appropriate, why do it now?
>
> Jerusalem Lodge No. 49
> Ridgefield, CT
That's good. You get a gold star, so to speak, for your intervention.
I've filtered burzlebub so I don't know what kind of behaviour to which
he alludes. The question for the perceptive is why play the game? That
is, when does a person get off the herd relationship behaviour and
become self-legislating/self-actualized?
The moment burzlebub acknowledged that a change in his behaviour was
even possible is an event that affords a threshold to be crossed and
confrontation to be met; with oneself.
If he recognizes that he has an alternative behaviour capability then
there is no reason to make that behaviour contingent upon a fetish, for
if his behaviour were blinded by neurosis, he would not even be able to
admit that an alternative existed. Stuck in the rut of one's own
making.
He has not been tempered by the flames and can only get more of the same
as long as he embraces a compulsion which confines at a single level of
maturity.
So. I don't see the zen light going off, but I will consider his
complaints with no stipulations and offer to unburden him from flame
wars if possible. It may be. I gave a guy Hudson a long rope ... That
which to some serves as a noose of bondage is the saving life-line of
the Good Samaritan. I just wanted to give encouragement for helping,
and felt challenged that I should make some contribution to easy
another's burden.
† Mike Restivo
David Simpson
>In response to David Simpson's question if i am a Freemason. I have to
>say i am not. I probably have to break the freemasons oath to say what
>i do.
>
>William Bond
>
Thank you Mr. Bond for your candid answer. Now can you explain why
you, who have never been a freemason, would know more about the ritual
of freemasonry than a person who has been a member for many years?
You are entitled to believe what you want but isn't it likely that an
experienced freemason would know more about the illustration, and
description, of the various symbols and the various allegories that
are in use in the various organisations that make up the masonic
craft?
If that is the case are you prepared to accept their words at face
value? If not why not?
In my experience, which is limited to about ten years in the craft, I
have never heard any of the fancies you have been trying to present to
us. I am also an avid reader and I have read a number of books on
freemasonry and comparative religion. Nowhere do I find any
information such as you have presented here. I will freely admit that
I have not read a great deal about these subjects since the late
1970's so I could be in ignorance about some of the religious
overtones that have developed since that time.
Incidentally none of what you are trying to put forward would be
prohibited from discussion by my obligation as that obligation only
pertains to the words, signs and tokens used to identify myself as a
freemason.
In short, Mr. Bond, nothing of your ideas makes any sense to a
freemason unless, perhaps, that freemason may happen to be a member of
a "Goddess" religion. I don't know any who fall into that category
although I believe that at least one member of Wicca also posts in
this group.
It really doesn't matter either since, in the lodge, freemasons are
forbidden from discussing the divisive topics of religion and
politics.
When you apply to join a lodge you are asked "Do you believe in a
Supreme Being?" If you answer that question in the affirmative then no
further questions will be asked about your belief. If you answer that
question in the negative then your application will proceed no
further. In either case you are not asked to define your belief in any
manner. If you are unsure then assistance may be given to aid you in
making up your own mind. It is your decision.
During initiation into a lodge the candidate are asked "In whom do you
place your trust?" An answer with any name of a Supreme Being is
acceptable.
None of the ritual is designed to change your beliefs in any way, in
fact just the opposite. You are enjoined to study *your* religion and
to follow its dictates with regard to your conscience and morals. You
are further enjoined to place your duty to your Supreme Being above
your duties to Freemasonry. In fact, of all the relationships you may
have, Religious, Civic, Family, Employment and Freemasonry, you are
instructed to place all of them ahead of any duties to freemasonry.
If you have a particular book of instruction for your faith you can
use that instead of a bible for your obligation in most jurisdictions.
Freemasons call such a book the Volume of the Sacred Law. It is normal
in most lodges to have a Bible open. The Bible is not meant to replace
your own sacred volume but instead is meant to represent whichever
book *you* hold dear in your heart.
If you have a belief in a Goddess as a creator spirit then no one, and
no lodge, will argue about your choice. You should worship her as you
have learnt. Just, please, don't go seeing vaginas, lovely as they
are, where there aren't any. It may get you labeled as a kook.
--
Regards
David Simpson (Remove "farook" to reply)
(Unattached MM)
Old age and treachery will always overcome
youth and skill.
David Simpson
<br_...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 May 2002 18:45:39 GMT, "Steven M. Hudson"
><steve....@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>>> I'll take it a step further and say that if you are asking yourself if
>>> you should stop, you probably should.
>>
>>That's an excellent point as well and a pretty good guide for 'subduing the
>>passions'.
>
>Sure is. I wish I thought of it.
>
>Oh.
><s>
>
>>Though I have to admit that _anything_ can be taken too far --
>
>Even moderation?
>
According to Robert Heinlein, life should be lived in big chunks.
Moderation is for monks.
I don't live all my life by Heinlein's guidance but he did have some
very apt quotes as did Isaac Asimov.
David Simpson
<br_...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 May 2002 22:37:23 +0100, "burzlebub"
><REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"long enough, a sig can not be!"
>
>Like this?
Please don't press Gene's buttons like that.
wabond
Thank you for your insight of what it is like to be a Freemason.
I agree I know very little about what goes on within Freemasonry, all
I know is what I read in books and from what I see in the very large
amount of symbols that Freemasonry has created. My article only
expressed a small amount of what I do see within Freemasonry
symbolism. I have enough information on Freemasonry symbolism to fill
up a book. I also agree that my main interest is not Freemasonry
itself I am more interested in the ancient religion of the Great
Mother. I just happened to pick up a book on Freemasonry with its
many symbols and with my knowledge of the Goddess I realized I could
read these symbols.
What I read about Freemasonry is that it is not a united organization.
It has split off into many sections. So what goes on in some lodges
may not go on in others. Also there is inner and outer mysteries. So
what the ordinary rank and file member may think Freemasonry is, may
be very different to what a inner circle may know. Also Freemasonry
has changed a lot over the years their has been reformers like The
Duke Of Sussex and Albert Pike who got rid of a lot of the old rituals
because they found them inappropriate. So Freemasonry today is very
different than it was 400 years ago.
For all I know, over the years the Goddess may of been complete purged
from Freemasonry completely. (Though I doubt it, I feel sure someone,
somewhere is holding on to ancient knowledge that goes back to
Neolithic times when people worshipped the ancient Great Mother).
To my mind there is a lot about Freemasonry that just doesn't add up.
I don't think I am the first person to realize that Freemasonry does
seem to have a hidden agenda, that is probably even secret from the
normal rank and file member.
My theory is that in the past there was a war between Goddess and
Patriarchal religions. This was a war fought not only with the sword
but through propaganda and brainwashing the population. With the rise
of Christianity and Mohammadism patriarchy won this war. But the
Goddess religion went underground and has been working away to
undermine patriarchy ever since. (The Witch hunts of the middle ages
was a time when the war came to the surface for a brief while) I
think Freemasonry is part of this secret war, and this secret war is
going on today.
As for being labelled a Kook i have been called worse things for
expressing my views.
William Bond
David Simpson
questioner deserved the answers. If you are not interested then simply
move on to the next post.
On 26 May 2002 23:46:13 -0700, wab...@rocketmail.com (wabond) wrote:
>David Simpson
>
>Thank you for your insight of what it is like to be a Freemason.
>
>I agree I know very little about what goes on within Freemasonry, all
>I know is what I read in books and from what I see in the very large
>amount of symbols that Freemasonry has created. My article only
>expressed a small amount of what I do see within Freemasonry
>symbolism. I have enough information on Freemasonry symbolism to fill
>up a book.
Other people have already written books with varying degrees of
success. In Freemasonry a symbol is used to illustrate a point,
usually moral. It may be that the illustration is similar to that of
the rest of the world and was adopted by the masons, it may be
different. It may be that the rest of the world adopted Freemasonry's
description since it was such a good illustration. e.g. Do you stand
"erect"? Do you behave "squarely" with other people? Are you "on the
level"? "Third degree" (That one's a little bit overdone these days)
>I also agree that my main interest is not Freemasonry
>itself I am more interested in the ancient religion of the Great
>Mother. I just happened to pick up a book on Freemasonry with its
>many symbols and with my knowledge of the Goddess I realized I could
>read these symbols.
>
Is what you read from the symbols the same as what a freemason sees or
reads? In this context it is what the freemason reads or sees that is,
in my opinion, more pertinent since you are talking about freemasonry.
If a particular symbol is used in another context it may, and probably
will, take on another totally different meaning. It may even change
its meaning over time. Ask Gene about symbols.
Take the square and compasses for instance. You see them as a vagina.
A freemason see them as instruments of building or planning. The
square is used to illustrate the rectitude of our actions in always
being honest with other people. "Acting squarely" if you will. The
compasses are used to inscribe circles and they remind us to keep our
thoughts and actions always within due bounds. To a freemason they are
separate items. To see them as a vagina you must always have them
together in that particular configuration. Sorry but that doesn't
happen.
>What I read about Freemasonry is that it is not a united organization.
True. There are hundreds of different jurisdictions. What is more
surprising is that with so many differences there is so much the same.
I come from Australia yet I would have little difficulty in gaining
entry into any lodge in England, Scotland, France, America, Canada and
most other free countries. I would have to prove that I was a
freemason and produce evidence that my membership was valid and
current but those are really only details.
> It has split off into many sections. So what goes on in some lodges
>may not go on in others.
True. the ritual does vary but in most cases it is recognisable.
>Also there is inner and outer mysteries. So
>what the ordinary rank and file member may think Freemasonry is, may
>be very different to what a inner circle may know.
No. The outer circle always knows of, and about, the inner circle. The
secrecy is only in the various identification words etc. The rudiments
of the various degrees, as they are called, are similar throughout the
organisation. They invariably teach a moral lesson. Some degrees are
universal in that there is no specific religious belief required while
others, in some of the ancillary organisations, may be reserved for
professed Christians only. I know of no part of the organisation
requiring any other religious belief.
>Also Freemasonry
>has changed a lot over the years their has been reformers like The
>Duke Of Sussex and Albert Pike who got rid of a lot of the old rituals
>because they found them inappropriate.
Albert Pike is rarely heard of outside the United States of America.
He is not a good example of what you are trying to say. The
anti-freemasons love to take paragraphs of his book, "Morals and
Dogma", and quote them out of context to prove some, usually false,
idea that they have.
He affected only the Southern Jurisdiction of the AASR (Ancient and
Accepted Scottish Rite) which is mainly in the Southern states of the
USA. (Maybe about 1-2 percent of freemasons worldwide) He may have had
a small influence on other jurisdictions of the AASR but this
influence would not have been great. Not all freemasons join the AASR
by the way. It is not required.
Pike's writing style is turgid and florid as was the style beloved of
intellectuals of that era. This makes him very difficult to read for
anyone who knows little of that time and how they thought. It also
makes him very easy to misquote.
The Duke of Sussex is unknown to me. This does not surprise me.
From that piece of information you may glean the fact that, perhaps,
his influence on freemasonry is not as great as his writings, or those
of others, may suggest. Perhaps he is another Albert Pike in a
different location. I had never heard of Pike until I started reading
this group a few years ago.
>So Freemasonry today is very
>different than it was 400 years ago.
>
True.
>For all I know, over the years the Goddess may of been complete purged
>from Freemasonry completely.
If She was ever there in the first place. Someone who has such
knowledge would surely have spoken out in this or the other
freemasonry groups and forums before now. We are not secretive. Many
exposes have spoken out against a supposed anti-Christian, or
anti-Jewish, bias in Freemasonry but the Goddess has never been
mentioned in any expose to my knowledge.
You do realise that it is highly likely that freemasonry took its rise
from the stone masons guilds in the middle ages. This cannot be proven
but certain impressions tend to indicate this may be the case. If that
is so consider this.
The stone masons were employed by the clergy to build churches and by
lords and kings to build castles. If their apprentices and journeymen
were not of the prevailing religion the masters, and the employees,
would have lost their heads, literally. That religion was, usually,
Christianity. Most religions do not allow adherents to feel
comfortable about professing a belief in another religion just to keep
your head. (Martyrdom is attractive to some people, e.g. Suicide
Bombers, but not most.) You either changed or died. The holdouts
generally didn't live to pass on their beliefs.
>(Though I doubt it, I feel sure someone,
>somewhere is holding on to ancient knowledge that goes back to
>Neolithic times when people worshipped the ancient Great Mother).
>
We can only speculate about ancient knowledge that goes back to
pre-biblical times. This is because of several reasons not the least
of which is that writing did not exist in that era. Most books about
these times are speculative fiction at best. While we may like things
to be true it doesn't necessarily make it so.
>To my mind there is a lot about Freemasonry that just doesn't add up.
>I don't think I am the first person to realize that Freemasonry does
>seem to have a hidden agenda, that is probably even secret from the
>normal rank and file member.
>
LOL. I'm sorry to be so easily amused but remember the KISS rule and
Occam's Razor. Really, with Freemasonry, what you see is what you get.
What agenda?
To rule the world? If that is the case then we must be pretty bad at
it because in over 400 years we have made absolutely no progress.
To worship a hidden Goddess? Most freemasons are religious men.
Freemasonry encourages them to follow their *own* particular religion
and does not provide *any* religious instruction. Can you imagine the
result if one of those religious men were to be told that he had to
change his religious beliefs to enter into the next order? I can.
There would be such an explosion of outrage that it would echo around
the world for years. Freemasonry would not survive such a blast if it
were true.
Freemasons do have secrets. They consist of the signs, tokens and
words by which we make ourselves known to each other. The rest of the
rituals is not secret in most jurisdictions.
Do you know that the Boy Scouts have a secret handshake? Really. They
do. It says so right in their initiation ritual. I still remember it
from when I was initiated. They also have several secret signs that
enable them to distinguish a Boy Scout from an imposter. Do they have
a hidden agenda? I don't believe so. Do they worship a Goddess? In
some secret inner circle (Eagle Scouts or Queen's Scouts) perhaps?
Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
Now do a search in that paragraph and replace "Boy Scouts" with
"Freemasons". It is still just as ridiculous.
>My theory is that in the past there was a war between Goddess and
>Patriarchal religions. This was a war fought not only with the sword
>but through propaganda and brainwashing the population. With the rise
>of Christianity and Mohammadism patriarchy won this war. But the
>Goddess religion went underground and has been working away to
>undermine patriarchy ever since. (The Witch hunts of the middle ages
>was a time when the war came to the surface for a brief while) I
>think Freemasonry is part of this secret war, and this secret war is
>going on today.
>
Freemasonry does not take sides in political or religious debates.
This is deliberate. Freemasonry was originally Christian but has had
the Christian bias removed with intent.
Whether the Goddess Religion went underground, or not, is of
absolutely no interest to Freemasonry as a whole. If some individual
freemason wants to investigate this, or even believe this, then he is
free to do so but he *must* not talk about it inside the lodge.
Perhaps you should be investigating Wicca or the various Druidic sects
to find the information you seem to be seeking. You will not find such
conspiracies hidden in freemasonry in spite of what a few of the
various anti-freemason idiots claim.
>As for being labeled a Kook i have been called worse things for
>expressing my views.
>
LOL. Expressing your views is fine. Freemasonry will not call you a
kook for that. Individual freemasons may do so. What really
differentiates a kook from others, in my opinion, is his *inability*
to accept the truth when he is told it. Kooks also try to force their
opinions on others. Perhaps you should read some of the posts of
Restivo or Lorr to get that point. A less polite term is bigot.
So far you have been polite and have asked questions without too much
kookiness in them. While you continue to act in that manner I, and
some of the others here, will reply in lucid posts without name
calling. Please ask valid questions, you will receive valid and
correct answers from me. If we are unable to give information because
of our vows about preserving any secrets you will be told just that.
Because of *my* promises to the Boy Scouts *I* will not write how
their handshake differs from the rest of the world. *I* will not write
about my masonic handshake for exactly the same reason. It involves a
concept called honour to which most people only pay lip service.
Gene Zippy
<faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>>>Though I have to admit that _anything_ can be taken too far --
>>
>>Even moderation?
>>
>According to Robert Heinlein, life should be lived in big chunks.
>Moderation is for monks.
>
>I don't live all my life by Heinlein's guidance but he did have some
>very apt quotes as did Isaac Asimov.
Agreed, as did Yogi Bera.
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*.
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
Mike's friend
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
http://mastermason.com/BrotherGene
http://www.mastermason.com/BrotherGene/frequently_asked_questions.htm
MBBFMN #387
ICQ #503060
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Remember: Your Masonry may be different from someone else's.
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.--. Try not.
Gene Zippy
>I agree I know very little about what goes on within Freemasonry,
Obvious from your guesses about what goes on.
>all I know is what I read in books
I read in a book that OJ was the guy on the grassy knoll in Dallas.
>and from what I see in the very large
>amount of symbols that Freemasonry has created.
Masonry didn't create any symbols, it just *uses* a few to impart our
teachings in a most effective manner.
>My article only
>expressed a small amount of what I do see within Freemasonry
>symbolism.
Yes, in symbols, everyone sees what they want to see, aided by their
own personal lives and experiences. Consider a rainbow. Everyone
sees something different when they look at one.
A physicist sees a practical demonstration of the refraction of light
across the visible spectrum.
An O.T. scholar sees a reminder of the covenant G-d made with Noah.
A N.T. scholar sees a reminder of the fulfillment of the promise of a
Deliverer.
A child sees pretty colors.
A storyteller sees a leprechaun protecting his pot of gold.
An artist sees brilliant hues and gorgeous transitions.
A meteorologist sees the end of a long rain.
All of them are looking at the _same_ rainbow. The rainbow is a
symbol, it does not vary. Interpretations of it, will.
Masonry shows us rainbows, and asks us to consider what they mean,
what we see in them. Different people will see different things in
the same rainbow.
>I have enough information on Freemasonry symbolism to fill
>up a book.
Is any of it accurate?
>I also agree that my main interest is not Freemasonry
>itself I am more interested in the ancient religion of the Great
>Mother.
Which has nothing to do with the fraternity of Freemasonry, despite
whatever your interpretations of what you think things mean may
indicate.
>I just happened to pick up a book on Freemasonry with its
>many symbols and with my knowledge of the Goddess I realized I could
>read these symbols.
You mean "read into" them. Yes, that is the very nature of symbols.
Everyone reads into them whatever is most useful to them at the time.
>What I read about Freemasonry is that it is not a united organization.
> It has split off into many sections.
No, it is a fraternity that has many jurisdictions.
>So what goes on in some lodges may not go on in others.
True, but the teachings are so general in nature, that there is no
problem with the fact that they are virtually identical the world
over.
>Also there is inner and outer mysteries. So
>what the ordinary rank and file member may think Freemasonry is, may
>be very different to what a inner circle may know.
Well, when you start using the word "may" in that manner, I guess
anything you say *may* be true. In this case, it is not, but it may,
in some other universe.
>Also Freemasonry
>has changed a lot over the years their has been reformers like The
>Duke Of Sussex and Albert Pike who got rid of a lot of the old rituals
>because they found them inappropriate.
Neither of which had any effect on Masonry. Pike, in particular, was
never in any position of authority in any Masonic jurisdiction or
Lodge. He was the leader of one jurisdiction of an *ancillary*
organization called the Scottish Rite, which is a separate
organization, and not Masonry.
>So Freemasonry today is very different than it was 400 years ago.
So is society, yes.
>For all I know, over the years the Goddess may of been complete purged
>from Freemasonry completely. (Though I doubt it, I feel sure someone,
>somewhere is holding on to ancient knowledge that goes back to
>Neolithic times when people worshipped the ancient Great Mother).
Or, much more likely, she may never have been a part of it in the
first place. There is certainly no record of any goddess-related
influence or involvement.
>To my mind there is a lot about Freemasonry that just doesn't add up.
That's ok. To my mind, there is a lot of your statements that do not
stand up to any sort of reality-test.
>I don't think I am the first person to realize that Freemasonry does
>seem to have a hidden agenda, that is probably even secret from the
>normal rank and file member.
No, many individuals have speculated the exact same thing. And we who
actually ARE Masons, and actually KNOW what really happens in a
Masonic Lodge, know how foolish those speculations make them look.
>My theory is that in the past there was a war between Goddess and
>Patriarchal religions. This was a war fought not only with the sword
>but through propaganda and brainwashing the population. With the rise
>of Christianity and Mohammadism patriarchy won this war. But the
>Goddess religion went underground and has been working away to
>undermine patriarchy ever since. (The Witch hunts of the middle ages
>was a time when the war came to the surface for a brief while) I
>think Freemasonry is part of this secret war, and this secret war is
>going on today.
Interesting theory. My theory is that some individuals have such a
desperate need to find what they are seeking, that they will
manufacture "evidence" and create relationships where none exist in
reality.
>As for being labelled a Kook i have been called worse things for
>expressing my views.
Express kooky views and it is likely to happen, yes.
Gene Zippy
<faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
> Ask Gene about symbols.
On Saturday, the first, I will be giving my presentation - repeatedly
- at the Scottish Rite Center in Mission Valley, San Diego.
Anyone in the area is invited to attend.
>Albert Pike is rarely heard of outside the United States of America.
And almost as rarely in the USA. I would estimate that less than 5%
of American Masons have ever heard of him, and of those, less than
half know who he was or have studied anything he wrote. I heard of
him for the first time from some anti, and when I asked the guys in my
Lodge who Pike was, no one knew.
>Do you know that the Boy Scouts have a secret handshake? Really. They
>do. It says so right in their initiation ritual. I still remember it
>from when I was initiated. They also have several secret signs that
>enable them to distinguish a Boy Scout from an imposter. Do they have
>a hidden agenda? I don't believe so.
Scouting certainly has an agenda. To teach young men to be
Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Curtious, Kind, Obedient,
Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent. Their agenda is every
bit as "hidden" as that of Masonry (to cause true friendships to exist
among those who might otherwise have remained at a perpetual distance,
through the exercise of Brotherly Love, Relief, Truth, Faith, Hope,
Charity, Respect, Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence and Justice.), both
being published in many venues, and known to everyone who knows
anything about the fraternity.
vstlmoox
>
> See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil... eh?
Only when you disappear :)
wabond
Everything you say sounds very sensible and reasonable, and probably
what you say reflects the views and opinions of most Masons. I think
the problem I have with Freemasonry and this includes many other
people, is that Freemasons seem to interfere in many key events in
history.
In the English Civil war, The American war of Independence, the French
Revolution, the uprising in South America to throw off Spanish rule,
we find it is Freemasons who are the Key players in all of these
events.
We also find Freemasons in the rise of science in 17 century Britain,
which kicked off the industrial revolution. We again find Freemasons
involved in the rise of Occultism in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Most of the members of the Golden Dawn were Freemasons, as well as the
people who started the Theosophy Society and it was a Freemason who
started Modern Witchcraft.
The more I read about the history of Freemasonry the more weird and
strange it becomes. In the second world war, the British cabinet very
nearly made peace with Hitler in 1940. It was Wilson Churchill who
was the driving force in stopping this peace deal. While in America
Roosevelt was elected on a promise not to get involve in the European
war. But when he was elected he placed a oil embargo on Japan and
goaded them to into attacking America. Which brought America into the
war. Now both Churchill and Roosevelt were surprise, surprise,
Freemasons. And it also seems that Hitler hated Freemasons and Mason
Lodges were banned in Nazi Germany. So again we find two Freemasons
that changed the course of 20th century history, and engineered the
fall of Nazism.
Modern Freemasonry presents itself as some sort of very respectable
gentleman's club with members of royalty within its ranks. But the
history of Freemasons has been very subversive to say the least. It
is then no wonder that many people believe Freemasonry has a hidden
agenda. I can understand why many fundamentalist Christian Groups,
and people on the right wing see Freemason as their enemy. I can also
understand why people looking at the history of Freemasonry invent
conspiracy theories.
My conspiracy theory is about the destruction of ancient knowledge
when Christianity became the state religion in the Roman Empire.
Where all ancient knowledge of was destroyed, as libraries and all
places of learning were burnt down. The same thing happened when the
Moslems took over and a similar thing happened in China at the same
time.
The scholars of the time must of done everything they could to
preserve what knowledge they could and would of had to create secret
societies to pass this knowledge down to the next generation. I
believe this started a number of secret societies like we see later in
the form of the Knights Templar and Knights Of St John, and later
still in the form of the Rosicucians and the Freemasons.
But also what also interests me is why this ancient knowledge is so
dangerous, that it has been kept from the general public. It is even
going on today. As far as the general public are aware civilization
started with the ancient Egyptians and Sumerians. But archeologists
have known about for years of even more ancient civilizations
thousands of years older that started in the Neolithic times. It has
only been recently that archeologists are starting to write about this
period in history. But a clue to this secrecy is that all these
ancient civilizations worshipped the Great Mother.
It seems wherever I look in history there is always an attempt to
censor anything about ancient Goddess religions. The censorship
imposed on learning at the beginning of Christianity in still going on
today with everything to do with knowledge about the ancient Goddess
religion. And scholars and archeologists who attempt to bring this
knowledge to the general public like J.J Bachofen, Margaret Murry,
Merlin Stone and Marija Gimbutas are always viciously attacked by the
academic world.
Then I find that the Freemasons are also involved. Freemasons in
history always undermine authoritarian governments and authoritarian
religions. But more important than this they seem to be the enemy of
patriarchy. It that they are willing to use science, the occult or
anything to undermine patriarchal religions.
This is getting too long, I could write a book on this. To cut it
short what I find about Freemasonry history is consistent with a
secret Goddess religion trying to undermine and destroy all
patriarchal religions and political systems. And with the rise in
Feminism and more and more knowledge available about our ancient past
they seem to be succeeding in this. It seems to me there is a very
secret war going on behind the scenes. With very authoritarian
patriarchal religions in one corner and a secret Goddess religion in
the other.
William Bond
Gene Zippy
>Everything you say sounds very sensible and reasonable, and probably
>what you say reflects the views and opinions of most Masons. I think
>the problem I have with Freemasonry and this includes many other
>people, is that Freemasons seem to interfere in many key events in
>history.
You're welcome.
NE Corner
It seems that you have hit the nail on the head:
from your last post:
>I can also
>understand why people looking at the history of Freemasonry invent
>conspiracy theories.
>
>My conspiracy theory...........
Thank you for defining your theory as an invention of your imagination.
Perhaps if you actually took the time to really absorb what other masons have
posted in return to your earlier comments, and did not begin your study from a
conspiracy theorists point of view, you would come do a different conclusion.
After all, if you start from the premise that something sinister/underhand or
in any way subversive is present then you will surely find something that fits
the bill (however ambiguous or tenuous the link)
Similarly, if you work from the premise that masonry has influenced history
greatly, and then find that some famous people, who happened to be masons, did
indeed change history, then you will conclude that masonry itself changed
history. However, the logic in this argument is flawed.
ie - you are using two particular people to represent a population of thousands
(in masonry) and then their actions as proof of a higher purpose. This is a
classic case of illogical COMPOSITION - pls see
www.locksley.com/6696/logic.htm
David Simpson
>Dear David Simpson
>
>Everything you say sounds very sensible and reasonable, and probably
>what you say reflects the views and opinions of most Masons. I think
>the problem I have with Freemasonry and this includes many other
>people, is that Freemasons seem to interfere in many key events in
>history.
>
Perhaps it's that people who seem to figure in high places join
Freemasonry. Why do you use the word "interfere"?
>In the English Civil war, The American war of Independence, the French
>Revolution, the uprising in South America to throw off Spanish rule,
>we find it is Freemasons who are the Key players in all of these
>events.
>
Freemasonry encourages belief in freedom. Are you against this?
>We also find Freemasons in the rise of science in 17 century Britain,
>which kicked off the industrial revolution. We again find Freemasons
>involved in the rise of Occultism in the 19th and 20th centuries.
>Most of the members of the Golden Dawn were Freemasons, as well as the
>people who started the Theosophy Society and it was a Freemason who
>started Modern Witchcraft.
>
Freemasonry encourages free thinking. Are you against this?
>The more I read about the history of Freemasonry the more weird and
>strange it becomes. In the second world war, the British cabinet very
>nearly made peace with Hitler in 1940. It was Wilson Churchill who
>was the driving force in stopping this peace deal. While in America
>Roosevelt was elected on a promise not to get involve in the European
>war. But when he was elected he placed a oil embargo on Japan and
>goaded them to into attacking America. Which brought America into the
>war. Now both Churchill and Roosevelt were surprise, surprise,
>Freemasons. And it also seems that Hitler hated Freemasons and Mason
>Lodges were banned in Nazi Germany. So again we find two Freemasons
>that changed the course of 20th century history, and engineered the
>fall of Nazism.
>
Are you sorry about this?
>Modern Freemasonry presents itself as some sort of very respectable
>gentleman's club with members of royalty within its ranks. But the
>history of Freemasons has been very subversive to say the least.
Why do you say that Freemasonry has been subversive? In fact
Freemasons are enjoined to be loyal to the state in which they live
and to obey the laws of that state. This is the opposite of being
subversive.
>It
>is then no wonder that many people believe Freemasonry has a hidden
>agenda. I can understand why many fundamentalist Christian Groups,
>and people on the right wing see Freemason as their enemy. I can also
>understand why people looking at the history of Freemasonry invent
>conspiracy theories.
>
Yes. All of those people are against freedom and freethinking. It
interferes with their control over people.
>My conspiracy theory is about the destruction of ancient knowledge
>when Christianity became the state religion in the Roman Empire.
>Where all ancient knowledge of was destroyed, as libraries and all
>places of learning were burnt down. The same thing happened when the
>Moslems took over and a similar thing happened in China at the same
>time.
>
>The scholars of the time must of done everything they could to
>preserve what knowledge they could and would of had to create secret
>societies to pass this knowledge down to the next generation. I
>believe this started a number of secret societies like we see later in
>the form of the Knights Templar and Knights Of St John, and later
>still in the form of the Rosicrucians and the Freemasons.
>
>But also what also interests me is why this ancient knowledge is so
>dangerous, that it has been kept from the general public. It is even
>going on today. As far as the general public are aware civilization
>started with the ancient Egyptians and Sumerians. But archeologists
>have known about for years of even more ancient civilizations
>thousands of years older that started in the Neolithic times. It has
>only been recently that archeologists are starting to write about this
>period in history. But a clue to this secrecy is that all these
>ancient civilizations worshipped the Great Mother.
>
Most religions attempt to destroy that which does not agree with their
precepts. If a paternalistic religion attempts to destroy any
reference to a maternalistic religion is part of human nature. It is
especially true of those who seek to use that religion to control the
thoughts of all that they can bring under their sway.
>It seems wherever I look in history there is always an attempt to
>censor anything about ancient Goddess religions. The censorship
>imposed on learning at the beginning of Christianity in still going on
>today with everything to do with knowledge about the ancient Goddess
>religion. And scholars and archeologists who attempt to bring this
>knowledge to the general public like J.J Bachofen, Margaret Murry,
>Merlin Stone and Marija Gimbutas are always viciously attacked by the
>academic world.
>
Perhaps it is the way in which they present their findings. Also it
has always been the case that those at the top of the scientific
establishment always decry any new data. It forces hard evidence to be
needed to change their thinking.
>Then I find that the Freemasons are also involved. Freemasons in
>history always undermine authoritarian governments and authoritarian
>religions. But more important than this they seem to be the enemy of
>patriarchy. It that they are willing to use science, the occult or
>anything to undermine patriarchal religions.
>
Do you consider authoritarian governments to be good?
Freemasons are not against any religion or government. We do not
discuss religion or politics in our lodges. We are forbidden to do
this on pain of expulsion from the lodge.
>This is getting too long, I could write a book on this. To cut it
>short what I find about Freemasonry history is consistent with a
>secret Goddess religion trying to undermine and destroy all
>patriarchal religions and political systems. And with the rise in
>Feminism and more and more knowledge available about our ancient past
>they seem to be succeeding in this. It seems to me there is a very
>secret war going on behind the scenes. With very authoritarian
>patriarchal religions in one corner and a secret Goddess religion in
>the other.
>
I'm sorry William. You will have to look elsewhere. Freemasonry is not
any sort of conspiracy unless you consider encouraging free men to be
come better men is a conspiracy wot\rth jumping on. While some of its
members may be Goddess worshippers I would suggest that the greatest
majority of the members are Christian, especially in my neck of the
woods. That is because in my neck of the woods most of the people are,
or are likely to be, Christian. In an Islamic country I would expect
most of the members to be Muslim. There are Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist,
Wicca and other religions that are among the members. Freemasonry does
not keep tabs on the religion of members. That is their business and
the only enquiry that the lodge ever makes is when it enquires of a
candidate "Do you believe in a Supreme Being?" No further questions
are asked about the religious beliefs of the applicant.
vstlmoox
>
> On Sat, 25 May 2002 03:23:32 +0100, "burzlebub"
> <REMOVEburzle...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >but you couldn't have done it without mike's help, you "Morally Superior ...
> >... Hate Representative", you! ;^)
>
> Quite honestly, there are several people here from whom I have learned
> an incredible amount, and deserve much credit, whose names might be
> surprising. Mike Restivo, in particular, has taught me a lot about
> subduing my passions, and more importantly, what those passions may
> induce me to do.
Yes, they should include Mikey wholesome and truthful lessons in the EA
Degree,
when dealing with passions.
Personally, I have learned alot from this NG; Trollin' Roy has taught me
the same,
and I am still learning :) Mikey is a little more fun though?
Was he always like he is now? I wonder if he is more communicative and
relaxed in person,
than over a NG.
Fraternally,
Geoffrey Howard - FC
KSL #62 F&AM PHA
Germany
Mike's new Friend
Trollin' Roy's old friend
Low-level hate Mason, raving terrorist fanatic, fascist propagandist,
moral zombie and stooge (Titles from
Most High and Honorable Elephant Sar Mercenary Mike Restivo Pornatius)
Lover of books from other Universes.
Implant technician - D.I.A.
For the never refuted true facts exposing the ! Restivo Cult:
http://www.masonicinfo.com/restivo.htm
Don't allow hate propagandists and social terrorists, like Mercenary
Mike Restivo and Trollin' Roy Lorr, to subvert your freedom and beliefs
or lie to you.
Use common sense and logic.
Get informed by facts.
Wake up citizens before Mercenary Mike illogically [backspace]'s you
from behind and you get damned from Trollin' Roys infinite paranoia and
hatred from another universe.
How many braincells have to die at the hands of Mikeyboys illogical
[backspace] and Trollin' Roy da Zealot's ignorance, before liberty is
taken seriously, not for granted?
vstlmoox
>
> I apologize for such a long post but I felt the subject and the
> questioner deserved the answers. If you are not interested then simply
> move on to the next post.
<snipped a well written post from Brother David for brevity>
I highly enjoyed reading your *long posting*, Brother David.
Thanks.
Fraternally,
Geoffrey Howard - FC
KSL #62 F&AM PHA
Germany
Gene Zippy
wrote:
>> Quite honestly, there are several people here from whom I have learned
>> an incredible amount, and deserve much credit, whose names might be
>> surprising. Mike Restivo, in particular, has taught me a lot about
>> subduing my passions, and more importantly, what those passions may
>> induce me to do.
>
>Yes, they should include Mikey wholesome and truthful lessons in the EA
>Degree, when dealing with passions.
<LOL>
It would make for an excellent example, but don't you think it would
violate our custom of teaching through symbolism to add such a literal
to the mix?
>Personally, I have learned alot from this NG; Trollin' Roy has taught me
>the same,
>and I am still learning :) Mikey is a little more fun though?
Mike is a blast, especially when he gets going.
>Was he always like he is now?
Mike has always (as long as I have known him, probably 6 years or so
now) been somewhat acerbic, rather negative and oppositional. It
wasn't until a year or so ago that he made this unfortunate
transformation from just being vocally and verbosely opposed to
Masonry (for some rather peculiar reasons) to the hateful and venomous
posts we see as of late.
>I wonder if he is more communicative and
>relaxed in person, than over a NG.
That I wouldn't know. Never met him anywhere other than on line.
Rumor has it, however, that no one who knows him in person willingly
associates with him.
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Brother Gene .*. ©
¶µ®§¦¥¤£¢¡•·°»º¹ª¨¬¿
H.M.S.H.
Q.P.H.D.
Mike's friend
and
Morally Superior Official Lord Chief High Exhaulted Omnipotent Boss Rogue Cult-Minded Fanatic Hate-Filled Queer-Writing Deceptive Attacking Enforcer Goon Cyber Terrorist Newsgroup Stalker Thug Sadist Hate Representative
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
http://mastermason.com/BrotherGene
http://www.mastermason.com/BrotherGene/frequently_asked_questions.htm
MBBFMN #387
ICQ #503060
You can have my [Backspace] when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.
When [Backspace] keys are outlawed, only outlaws will have [Backspace] keys.
[Backspace], love it or hack it.
Give me [Backspace] or give me death!
A [Backspace] a day keeps the idjits away.
************************************
"Are you guys ready? Let's Roll!!"
Todd Beamer, Flight 93
************************************
Got [Backspace]?
David Simpson
wrote:
>David Simpson wrote:
>>
>> I apologize for such a long post but I felt the subject and the
>> questioner deserved the answers. If you are not interested then simply
>> move on to the next post.
>
><snipped a well written post from Brother David for brevity>
>
>I highly enjoyed reading your *long posting*, Brother David.
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>Fraternally,
>
>Geoffrey Howard - FC
>KSL #62 F&AM PHA
>Germany
>
>http://www.mwphglwa.org
>
You're welcome. Just for once I managed to subdue my passions
properly. I did think of a number of stinging rejoinders but decided
that the poster was worthy of a more considered approach since he had
not, at that time, actually accused freemasonry of any wrongdoing.
There may be hope for him yet.
Jack Hickey
Give a reference, please.
Jack Hickey
Master, Isaiah Thomas Lodge
Worcester MA USA
www.geocities.com/isaiahthomas2001/
Okay, everybody back on your heads ...