FAQ: Do Freemasons try to pressure police chiefs?
Darth Simian
pressure the Chief Constable of North Wales into abandoning a
crackdown on officers being members of the Order.
Lord Kenyon telephoned the Chief Constable at a time when an unnamed
policeman was due to take a senior position in a masonic lodge, the
North Wales child abuse tribunal heard yesterday.
A former police officer and Mason, who has been accused of abuse by a
number of witnesses and who has spent two days giving evidence to the
tribunal, denied that he was the officer referred to. The ex-
policeman also denied that he had forgotten 15 visits to a children's
home.
Timothy King QC, counsel for a number of alleged victims of abuse,
asked the ex-policeman if he had been aware of the standing order
which "frowned" on serving officers being Freemasons. He also asked
him if he knew about "negotiations behind the scenes between the
grandmaster and the Chief Constable?"
He replied: "I was aware that the provincial grandmaster visited the
Chief Constable at a police station, but what was discussed I have no
idea."
The hearing continues.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/freemason-tried-to-pressure-police-...
--
“European aristocrats transferred their lighted candles from Christian
altars to Masonic lodges. The flame of occult alchemists, which had
promised to turn dross into gold, reappeared at the center of new
"circles" seeking to recreate a golden age: Bavarian Illuminists
conspiring against the Jesuits, French Philadelphians against
Napoleon, Italian charcoal burners against the Hapsburgs.”
pmd
> The late Lord Kenyon, a provincial grandmaster of Freemasons, tried to
> pressure the Chief Constable of North Wales into abandoning a
> crackdown on officers being members of the Order.
>
> Lord Kenyon telephoned the Chief Constable at a time when an unnamed
> policeman was due to take a senior position in a masonic lodge, the
> North Wales child abuse tribunal heard yesterday.
>
>
> A former police officer and Mason, who has been accused of abuse by a
> number of witnesses and who has spent two days giving evidence to the
> tribunal, denied that he was the officer referred to. The ex-
> policeman also denied that he had forgotten 15 visits to a children's
> home.
>
>
> Timothy King QC, counsel for a number of alleged victims of abuse,
> asked the ex-policeman if he had been aware of the standing order
> which "frowned" on serving officers being Freemasons. He also asked
> him if he knew about "negotiations behind the scenes between the
> grandmaster and the Chief Constable?"
>
>
> He replied: "I was aware that the provincial grandmaster visited the
> Chief Constable at a police station, but what was discussed I have no
> idea."
>
>
> The hearing continues.
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/freemason-tried-to-pressure-police-...
Great article.
The truth will out!
--
"Entire units of the Metropolitan Police and the Flying Squad and the
drug squad were Freemasons. They all, in the end, were sent to prison.
When you are bonded by an oath of mutual defence and loyalty, you may
well find that it is extremely difficult to squeal on your corrupt
brethren"
Martin Short on BBC Newsnight 19/03/01
ptk1071
>
> - Show quoted text -
The link above does not work, neither does either your nonsensical
rants so I guess it make perfect sense.
Martin Short is your reference? Well I guess is better then David
Icke...laughable
Bill A.
NY Mason
Protein Mutant Database
Piss off mason.
innerjewel
> Piss off mason.
Now that is chutzpah! You are posting as a visitor to a Masonic NG and
you are telling resident Masons to piss off when they question your
assertions. Are you getting a bit frustrated and crabby when you get
called out? Guess what, we aren't going anywhere.
Feel free to continue to make a fool of yourself here by trolling but
you will be checkmated by people who know a great deal more than you
do with respect to freemasonry.
ptk1071
Reminds me of the neighborhood kid that would provoke the biggest kid
on the block until he finally chased him back to Mommy's house and as
soon as he was in side, he'd stick his head out and taunt some more.
I am amused buy the witty retort offered by this particular INTERNET
troll.
Its not really chutzpah! It's just ignorance. Ignorance breeds fear,
fear breed hatred, hatred breeds violence. So this troll's cycle is
exposed for all to see by his replies. Lets just hope it does not
complete the cycle.
Bill A.
NY Mason
Protein Mutant Database
You'd have me arrested wouldn't you? You'd have me placed on a watch
list and DNA profiled just because I chose a mild insult in my reply.
You see, I have no interest in convincing the brainwashed cultists in
this group that the upper echelons in their precious organisation have
an alternative agenda for the rest of us. You just can't teach dumb people.
Protein Mutant Database
Whatever I say Innerfool will fall on deaf ears. You are in a cult and
as such *brainwashed*. Your primary duty is to your evil brotherhood and
it's corrupt individuals. I have no time to waste debating with sheep. I
am pleased however, that you take the time to read the truths that I and
GH post.
Aaron
<P...@SIBU.HQ> wrote:
>innerjewel wrote:
>
>>>Piss off mason.
>>
>>
>> Now that is chutzpah! You are posting as a visitor to a Masonic NG and
>> you are telling resident Masons to piss off when they question your
>> assertions. Are you getting a bit frustrated and crabby when you get
>> called out? Guess what, we aren't going anywhere.
>> Feel free to continue to make a fool of yourself here by trolling but
>> you will be checkmated by people who know a great deal more than you
>> do with respect to freemasonry.
>
>
>Whatever I say Innerfool will fall on deaf ears. You are in a cult and
>as such *brainwashed*. Your primary duty is to your evil brotherhood and
>it's corrupt individuals. I have no time to waste debating with sheep. I
>am pleased however, that you take the time to read the truths that I and
>GH post.
Protein Mutant Database, do you think that you can prove any of that?
First, the use of "cult" a "cult," in the modern usage, is a
(pseudo-)religious organization that is characterized by isolating its
members from their families and from society in general, devests its
followers of their money, and is highly intolerant of other religious
points of view.
The word "corruption" should not need to be defined. Darth Simian has
posted news articles about corrupt politicians in the UK attacking
Freemasonry by hypocritically hinting that they suspect that there
could be corruption IF (they never seem to have figures) there are a
significant number of Freemasons in government.
The Word "evil" does need to be defined. Evil only exists within the
context of a religion. Ethics can be defined in a secular or
Atheistic context. So you will first have to identify what religion
you are using to base your opinions. Of course, if you do not
personally believe in and follow that religion, your accusation is a
lie even if the religion you choose has an actual basis for opposing
Freemasonry. Should you choose a religion with a sacred text (Bible,
Tanakh, Koran, et cetera), that text must define as evil something
that you can prove about Freemasonry.
So far in this NG and in others involving religion, I have not seen
anyone prove that freemasonry is evil. Feel free to try though. You
claim that what you say will fall on deaf ears, but you have not
really said anything intelligent about this issue. Wild accusations
and subjective value statements made without any proof or even context
cannot be accepted by any rational person. If you truly have
something to say, despite the fact that it is trolling, go ahead. If
you are just going to troll then you should not waste your time.
Silly accusations devoid of proof or any other merit do more to bring
ridicule to the accuser than the intended victim.
I am not trying to be mean to you. I know the offer to look at your
"proof" seems insincere because we all know that you don't have any
proof, but I am not trying to embarrass you; I am just giving you the
opportunity to see that you have been brainwashed by people who are
either corrupt and dishonest or mentally ill (I have seen both types
attack Freemasonry). Of course you think you have something to say,
so lets see it.
Protein Mutant Database
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:22:46 +0000, Protein Mutant Database
> <P...@SIBU.HQ> wrote:
>
>
>>innerjewel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Piss off mason.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now that is chutzpah! You are posting as a visitor to a Masonic NG and
>>>you are telling resident Masons to piss off when they question your
>>>assertions. Are you getting a bit frustrated and crabby when you get
>>>called out? Guess what, we aren't going anywhere.
>>>Feel free to continue to make a fool of yourself here by trolling but
>>>you will be checkmated by people who know a great deal more than you
>>>do with respect to freemasonry.
>>
>>
>>Whatever I say Innerfool will fall on deaf ears. You are in a cult and
>>as such *brainwashed*. Your primary duty is to your evil brotherhood and
>>it's corrupt individuals. I have no time to waste debating with sheep. I
>>am pleased however, that you take the time to read the truths that I and
>>GH post.
>
>
>
> Protein Mutant Database, do you think that you can prove any of that?
Aha! Smoked him out of his evil lair again...
It's ok Aaron, I am a decent enough fellow to allow you to address me as
'PMD' :-)
As I say, I now realise a debate would be utterly futile with you
people. You cannot covert the brainwashed. That's it for life pal now,
you belong to your fellow cultists. You'll believe anything they do or
say is a reason for good because you yourself are probably a textbook
citizen who's naive to the real agenda of his 'charitable organisation'.
>
> First, the use of "cult" a "cult," in the modern usage, is a
> (pseudo-)religious organization that is characterized by isolating its
> members from their families and from society in general, devests its
> followers of their money, and is highly intolerant of other religious
> points of view.
In the main correct but the main difference with yours is that it preys
on the public masked as a charity. You don't seem to be very aware of
the real use of power at local and national level in both our countries.
I'd say you are woefully out of touch due to the fact that your mind is
clouded by the need to see good in an organisation that you perceive to
be good for society. Power and greed will always win over right and
fair. If you can't see this simple point there really is no need to go
any further with you. As I say, you can't covert the closed-minded sheep.
>
> The word "corruption" should not need to be defined. Darth Simian has
> posted news articles about corrupt politicians in the UK attacking
> Freemasonry by hypocritically hinting that they suspect that there
> could be corruption IF (they never seem to have figures) there are a
> significant number of Freemasons in government.
Are you talking about Straw bringing in a register of freemasons? Well,
he has completely backtracked on this due to the fact that prominent
masons within the police and judiciary flatly refused to comply with the
order. Is it any wonder? We wouldn't want any scandal surrounding
freemasons now would we? He can't order the arrest of all the police,
barristers and judges in the UK who are masons. Law enforcement would
completely collapse. Now, that's quite powerful isn't it?
<snip repetitive predictable masonic mantra>
Aaron
<P...@SIBU.HQ> wrote:
>Aaron wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:22:46 +0000, Protein Mutant Database
>> <P...@SIBU.HQ> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>innerjewel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Piss off mason.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Now that is chutzpah! You are posting as a visitor to a Masonic NG and
>>>>you are telling resident Masons to piss off when they question your
>>>>assertions. Are you getting a bit frustrated and crabby when you get
>>>>called out? Guess what, we aren't going anywhere.
>>>>Feel free to continue to make a fool of yourself here by trolling but
>>>>you will be checkmated by people who know a great deal more than you
>>>>do with respect to freemasonry.
>>>
>>>
>>>Whatever I say Innerfool will fall on deaf ears. You are in a cult and
>>>as such *brainwashed*. Your primary duty is to your evil brotherhood and
>>>it's corrupt individuals. I have no time to waste debating with sheep. I
>>>am pleased however, that you take the time to read the truths that I and
>>>GH post.
>>
>>
>>
>> Protein Mutant Database, do you think that you can prove any of that?
>
>
>Aha! Smoked him out of his evil lair again...
Ah! the use of a random personal attack. This is typical of usenet
trolls. Like neglected children most are so needy for attention that
they (in this case PMD) will say or type anything to get some kind of
attention. Do you feel better now, PMD.
>
>It's ok Aaron, I am a decent enough fellow to allow you to address me as
>'PMD' :-)
You cannot seriously claim to be decent. Based on the Bible, the
Tanakh, the Vedas, the Buddhavacana, or the Koran, you commit evil
actions every time you post here.
>
>As I say, I now realise a debate would be utterly futile with you
>people. You cannot covert the brainwashed. That's it for life pal now,
>you belong to your fellow cultists. You'll believe anything they do or
>say is a reason for good because you yourself are probably a textbook
>citizen who's naive to the real agenda of his 'charitable organisation'.
You keep rambling on, but say nothing.
You keep making up false accusations, but have not offered any proof
for any of your fantasies.
>
>
>>
>> First, the use of "cult" a "cult," in the modern usage, is a
>> (pseudo-)religious organization that is characterized by isolating its
>> members from their families and from society in general, devests its
>> followers of their money, and is highly intolerant of other religious
>> points of view.
>
>
>In the main correct but the main difference with yours is that it preys
>on the public masked as a charity.
That rather laughable claim makes no sense whatsoever. Freemasonry
benefits the community, providing grants to public schools teachers,
funds for medical research, scholarships, free medical care and other
charitable programs. It is a simple matter of math: cults take in
money without giving back to the community, but Masonry gives to the
community.
>You don't seem to be very aware of
>the real use of power at local and national level in both our countries.
>I'd say you are woefully out of touch due to the fact that your mind is
>clouded by the need to see good in an organisation that you perceive to
>be good for society. Power and greed will always win over right and
>fair. If you can't see this simple point there really is no need to go
>any further with you. As I say, you can't covert the closed-minded sheep.
Again you make vague accusations of something that you cannot even put
into words other than to hint and claim that anyone with any real
knowledge must be brainwashed or they would agree with your baseless
fantasies.
To sum up: you again prove that you have no proof of anything you say.
>
>
>>
>> The word "corruption" should not need to be defined. Darth Simian has
>> posted news articles about corrupt politicians in the UK attacking
>> Freemasonry by hypocritically hinting that they suspect that there
>> could be corruption IF (they never seem to have figures) there are a
>> significant number of Freemasons in government.
>
>
>Are you talking about Straw bringing in a register of freemasons? Well,
>he has completely backtracked on this due to the fact that prominent
>masons within the police and judiciary flatly refused to comply with the
>order. Is it any wonder? We wouldn't want any scandal surrounding
>freemasons now would we? He can't order the arrest of all the police,
>barristers and judges in the UK who are masons. Law enforcement would
>completely collapse. Now, that's quite powerful isn't it?
Ah, but Darth Simian has already posted links to articles that
demonstrate that the percentage of police with any masonic connections
at all to about 8% and the percentage of politicians holding
antimasonic views to over 14%.
Straw also admitted that his original act was illegal. He danced
around admitting that her was trying to enflame public paranoia
against Freemasonry, and use that for his corrupt political ends.
Of course all of your accusations make no sense. One might as well
ask if he can order the arrest of all members of the Church of England
and related religious organizations who are police, barristers and
judges in the UK. There would be no legal basis for such an order.
In fact, the order would be illegal. The same goes for the order for
freemasons to register as if the UK were now Nazi Germany and
membership in Freemasonry was probable cause to believe that these men
might believe in freedom, basic human rights, and justice for all
human beings. Admittedly, Membership in Freemasonry is probable cause
to believe that these men believe in freedom, basic human rights, and
justice for all human beings, but these beliefs are not supposed to be
criminal in the UK.
To sum up: You have not come up with any evidence, let alone proof, of
any corruption in or by Freemasonry.
>
>
><snip repetitive predictable masonic mantra>
Let's just "unsnip" that to which you were to embarrassed to respond:
>>The Word "evil" does need to be defined. Evil only exists within the
>>context of a religion. Ethics can be defined in a secular or
>>Atheistic context. So you will first have to identify what religion
>>you are using to base your opinions. Of course, if you do not
>>personally believe in and follow that religion, your accusation is a
>>lie even if the religion you choose has an actual basis for opposing
>>Freemasonry. Should you choose a religion with a sacred text (Bible,
>>Tanakh, Koran, et cetera), that text must define as evil something
>>that you can prove about Freemasonry.
I guess this must have been the part that really stung you. When your
posts in this NG contain proof that you have lied and born false
witness, the question of good verses evil must be too much for you.
of course you could be an Atheist; in which case, you have no basis
for understanding let alone defining "evil" or "good."
>>
>>So far in this NG and in others involving religion, I have not seen
>>anyone prove that freemasonry is evil. Feel free to try though. You
>>claim that what you say will fall on deaf ears, but you have not
>>really said anything intelligent about this issue. Wild accusations
>>and subjective value statements made without any proof or even context
>>cannot be accepted by any rational person. If you truly have
>>something to say, despite the fact that it is trolling, go ahead. If
>>you are just going to troll then you should not waste your time.
>>Silly accusations devoid of proof or any other merit do more to bring
>>ridicule to the accuser than the intended victim.
>>
>>I am not trying to be mean to you. I know the offer to look at your
>>"proof" seems insincere because we all know that you don't have any
>>proof, but I am not trying to embarrass you; I am just giving you the
>>opportunity to see that you have been brainwashed by people who are
>>either corrupt and dishonest or mentally ill (I have seen both types
>>attack Freemasonry). Of course you think you have something to say,
>>so lets see it.
>>
The fact that you feel justified in calling the challenge that you
provide actual proof of your accusations a "repetitive predictable
masonic mantra" is pathetic. A person would have to be completely
brainwashed to take that position. You have the opportunity to
provide proof of your claims. If you were really the "freethinker"
that your style yourself to be, you would have gathered such proof
before coming to a conclusion; instead you sheepishly follow people
who are proven liars or mentally ill. When I see people voting for
politicians whose policies are against their own best interests as
well as against those of the country, I think of them as stupid sheep.
In your case, you are following people more obviously evil that
politicians, and mentally ill people; that is far worse.
Okay, since you did not bother to even try to actually respond to my
post I assume that you just needed attention. Did you get enough? I
also notice that you have not posted a single post designed to
discourage men from joining Masonry or to convince men to leave
Freemasonry. So, I might guess that you are just in need of some
interaction with people even if you just make a fool of yourself in
the process. I could write a general indictment of your sociopathic
behavior and save it as a text file so that I can respond to your
posts without reading them. would that satisfy your emotional needs?
Jim Bennie
news:81jsg5t2dvhmhgh7v...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:43:12 +0000, a troll wrote:
>>In the main correct but the main difference with yours is that it preys
>>on the public masked as a charity.
>
> That rather laughable claim makes no sense whatsoever. Freemasonry
> benefits the community, providing grants to public schools teachers,
> funds for medical research, scholarships, free medical care and other
> charitable programs. It is a simple matter of math: cults take in
> money without giving back to the community, but Masonry gives to the
> community.
And, on top of that, Aaron, in my jurisdiction, it's funded from the pockets
of Masons. So much for "the public."
Meannwhile, what does the anti-Masonic crowd do? Anonymously cluck on the
internet. The manure they spread grows only nonsense.
Jim, Vancouver
innerjewel
on a watch
> list and DNA profiled just because I chose a mild insult in my reply.
> You see, I have no interest in convincing the brainwashed cultists in
> this group that the upper echelons in their precious organisation have
> an alternative agenda for the rest of us. You just can't teach dumb people.
Why would anyone have you arrested? The only laws you have broken are
those pertaining to reason and logical deduction. You must inhabit a
very lonely and paranoid world if you think that Freemasons could have
you DNA profiled and "watched" for anonymously insulting and taunting
complete strangers over the internet. Do your imaginary aspirations of
martyrdom make you feel more imporant PMD? Could you please tell us
here on alt.freemasonry specifically and explicitly what this
"alternative agenda" is that we Masons who inhabit the "upper
echelons" is.
I am dying to know all about it and if you have any kind of convincing
argument to support it I will be very surprised.
Thanks, and have a nice day somewhere else.
IJ
ptk1071
> an alternative agenda for the rest of us. You just can't teach dumb people.
>
> --
> "Entire units of the Metropolitan Police and the Flying Squad and the
> drug squad were Freemasons. They all, in the end, were sent to prison.
> When you are bonded by an oath of mutual defence and loyalty, you may
> well find that it is extremely difficult to squeal on your corrupt brethren"
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Arrested!, No, but maybe committed to a mental health facility as you
are clearly nuts. Your vitriol toward Freemasonry just indicates your
propensity for violence. So as I belong to a benevolent fraternal
organization, you, my dear sir or madam (whatever the case may be),
are deeply committed to a cult of one. As you are not a part of the
fraternity, you could not posses any knowledge about Freemasonry that
we could take seriously. Provide a shred of proof of any of your
nonsensical rants. Of course you can't, because it all in your head.
It is a waste of time and words to attempt to convince you of the
truth, so we'll just continue to point out your foolishness and have a
few good laughs in the process.
Bill A.
NY Mason
Aaron
You are half-right about him or her not posessing and knowledge of
Freemasonry that can be taken seriously: A rational person COULD know
quite a bit about Freemasonry as almost everything about Freemasonry
is open to the public; the fact is that he or she CHOOSES not to know
any real facts and so makes up things projecting his or her secret
fears about the world in gerneral onto a single group which he or she
can then feel is a justifiable target for his or her fear and hatred.
Yes, I know that is a mental illness, I was just getting the technical
points straight.