New study shows old growth losses under NWFP
Larry Harrell
interesting study that shows cumulative old growth losses since
Clinton's NorthWest Forest Plan.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/027220017657k848/fulltext.html
It shouldn't surprise me but, it sure did. The reading is pretty dry
but, the substance is there. Fires are the main culprit in destroying
old growth that was supposed to be protected. I guess no good deed
goes unpunished, eh?
Larry
Forester
owls out timber burned jobs lost. What a wonderful way to be in
America!}
Conservation Groups Challenge Owl Recovery Plan
©2008 Google - Map data ©2008 Tele Atlas - Terms of Use
By JEFF BARNARD – 6 hours ago
GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) — Conservation groups are suing the Bush
administration to undo the northern spotted owl recovery plan that is
making it possible to ramp up old growth forest logging in Oregon.
A coalition of conservation groups filed motions Monday to intervene
in a timber industry lawsuit over the owl in U.S. District Court in
Washington, D.C.
Seattle Audubon Society and the others argue the U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service was politically influenced by the Bush administration
and violated the Endangered Species Act by ignoring the best available
science, both in the plan for saving the owl from extinction and in
deciding to reduce protections for old growth forests where the owl
lives by 1.6 million acres.
The spotted owl was declared a threatened species in 1990 primarily
because of heavy logging in old growth forests. Lawsuits from
conservation groups led to the creation of the Northwest Forest Plan,
which cut logging on federal lands by more than 80 to protect habitat
for the owl, salmon and other species.
The declining log production led to economic pain in the region,
particularly in small logging towns, and the Bush administration has
been trying since 2000 to relax environmental laws and regulations to
boost logging levels, with little success.
The owl recovery plan twice flunked peer reviews by outside scientists
who said it contained no scientific basis for allowing more logging of
the old growth forests set aside under the Northwest Forest Plan as
habitat for the owl. The plan also identified wildfire and the
invasion of spotted owl territory by the barred owl as factors in the
threatened bird's decline.
Dominick DellaSala of the National Center for Conservation Science &
Policy, a plaintiff in the lawsuit, served on a team of scientists who
worked on the owl recovery plan before it was taken over by the Fish
and Wildlife Service.
He said they were prevented from doing their jobs by a group of Bush
administration officials in Washington, who needed an owl recovery
plan that would allow logging in old growth forests in order to push
through the so-called Whopper, or Western Oregon Plan Revision, which
dismantles the Northwest Forest Plan for saving owls and increases
logging on federal lands in western Oregon.
Kristen Boyles, an attorney for Earthjustice, the public interest law
firm representing the conservation groups, said the owl recovery plan,
smaller critical habitat and the Whopper, "are the final pieces to the
puzzle the Bush administration has been putting together the last
eight years to undo the Northwest Forest Plan and deliver
unsustainable amounts of timber to the timber industry."
Fish and Wildlife Service spokeswoman Joan Jewett said she could not
comment on pending litigation.
Tom Partin, president of the American Forest Resource Council, said
the recovery plan was a good one, but leaving so much forest in
critical habitat will prevent the logging needed to prevent future
wildfires that will destroy even more acres.
"We need the ability to manage the lands to be sure they stay in a
more healthy state," Partin said. "We just feel we'll lose more acres
of owl critical habitat to fire."
Research shows that spotted owl numbers continue to drop by 4 percent
annually as a result of logging, wildfires and an invasion of its
habitat by the barred owl, a more aggressive East Coast cousin that
migrated across Canada and has been working its way south.
The Bush administration agreed to produce a new spotted owl recovery
plan and review the critical habitat designation under terms of the
settlement of a lawsuit brought by the timber industry.
Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Regards,
Al Bradley
Larry Caldwell
@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, lhfot...@hotmail.com (Larry Harrell)
says...
I seem to remember that the Biscuit fire alone consumed a third of the
spotted owl habitat in Southern Oregon.
--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.
Larry Harrell
bleeding will continue. Praying to Gaia, obviously, has not worked for
the radical preservationists. The tourist industry in Oregon suffered
mightily with the smoke of all the Let-Burn fires. The Oregon economy
is in major melt-down mode, as well. Even the sharpest minds in the
eco-community are ignoring our forest ecosystems and just not willing
to do what it takes to save essential parts of our forests. When will
they start applying the "Precautionary Principle" to our forests,
regarding their hands-off approach? Setting aside more and more
wilderness areas to Let-Burn is clearly NOT the answer.
Larry, I'm sure that your part of Oregon suffered very badly through
the fires last summer. I'll bet tourism, which was promised by eco's
as the economic savior, dropped off a cliff. Is there any hope of a
consensus in your area yet, Larry?
Larry
On Nov 27, 7:56 pm, Larry Caldwell <firstnamelastinit...@peaksky.com>
wrote:
> In article <b825d503-7224-411f-895e-13147ce690b0
> @w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, lhfotow...@hotmail.com (Larry Harrell)
Joe
that it's all their fault that the forests are burning, the wood industry
has shut down, the entire PNW economy is in shambles.
Joe
"Larry Harrell" <lhfot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c12a7952-8eaf-4885...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Larry Caldwell
@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, lhfot...@hotmail.com (Larry Harrell)
says...
> Larry, I'm sure that your part of Oregon suffered very badly through
> the fires last summer. I'll bet tourism, which was promised by eco's
> as the economic savior, dropped off a cliff. Is there any hope of a
> consensus in your area yet, Larry?
Last summer was actually a pretty mild year for forest fires. We had
half a dozen smoky days, and they closed highway 138 for a few days
because the Umpqua National Forest was on fire, but I think the total
loss was only a few thousand acres, which is a postage stamp on the UNF.
As for a consensus in my area, everybody knows that what we think
doesn't have any effect on what DC does. The county would be happy if
the feds would just let us go back to logging O&C lands.
For that matter, right now the mills are only logging enough to fill
forward contracts. Timber is essentially worthless. By the time you
cover logging expenses, there wouldn't be much left for the kitty.
Larry Harrell
> You make it seem that those "radical enviros" have immense political power-
> that it's all their fault that the forests are burning, the wood industry
> has shut down, the entire PNW economy is in shambles.
>
> Joe
>
If that's not bad enough, Joe, it's the collaboration of the eco's AND
the Bush Administration to both embrace catastrophic wildfires as
"good for the environment". Unfortunately, both advicate the Let-Die,
Let-Rot and Let-Burn policy currently in force for opposite reasons.
The Bushies want to burn it instead of manage it because it's cheaper.
Burning it also removes incentives for wilderness designations. Eco's
have the blinders on about the role of fire and the state of our
unnatural forests. The results have been disasterous, especially for
the local residents.
Larry
Joe
pay great attention to the western forestry issues. With proper controlled
burn, doesn't everyone win? And it's probably a lot cheaper than trying to
put out a huge wildfire.
Do you accept allowing wild fires to burn anywhere? Wilderness areas? NPS?
I've only seen one controlled burn- in Georgia, while I was just driving by
late at night. Rather mind blowing. I certainly think there's a place for
it- on managed forests.
Fire is NOT an issue here in New England.
Joe
"Larry Harrell" <lhfot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e3f2747-8ccc-4020...@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Larry Harrell
says that prescribed fire alone will NOT work for the forests in the
Pacific Northwest. This same logic works for our ponderosa pine
forests, too. The real issue here is that allowing "free range fire"
during the summer months with no NEPA work, no public involvement (as
required by law!) and no firelines in place. Would you trust a "fire
God" to make a decision to not fight a fire?!? This last summer (and
many of the last few summers) there has been a huge wealth transfer in
the Forest Service budget. We've been paying out big bucks to have
fire fighters (and dozers and helicopters) all getting paid to watch
the fires rip and tear through our forests.
The windows to accomplish "prepared fires" (prescribed fires with
fuels reduced in advance) are getting smaller all the time with
weather and air quality issues blocking the burning. The Let-Burn
program ignores air quality, water quality and all the other forest
benefits. The perceived benefits of "free range fires" are negated by
"unintended consequences". Local fire departments are often handed
"control" of these fires once they roar out of Forest Service lands
and on to private lands. This is, plain and simple, abandonment of
forest stewardship in favor of "re-wilding" and "forest re-birth". And
the eco's then blame burned-out homeowners for living next to a
tinderbox.
I see no solution on the horizon, short of suing the government for
ignoring the Endangered Species Act and the Organic Act. The "fire
gods" have already mapped out mega-fires up to 400,000 acres, with no
NEPA documentation or formal scientific studies of impacts and
problems.
If any of you feel like it, visit this site to see the mindsets of
"mainstream" eco's and their views on forest management:
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/11/20/121336/31
If you like to stir things up (and these guys absolutely HATE to have
to back up their views on forests), please go there and present some
science to these folks. I offered up Dr. Franklin's and Dr. Johnson's
educated views ob forest management and those folks dropped the ball
like it was a nuclear control rod ;^)
Larry
Joe
East continues to get high graded or consists of monoculture plantations or
gets developed. Out west, all sorts of issues.
Who to blame? I think there's enough to go around with both the enviros and
the forestry establishment, which has been far too friendly with the
interests of the wood industry.
I think both sides are severely FUCKED up.
It doesn't help that real foresters who actually work in the woods doing
real forestry are a rare and endangered species and have almost zero
influence on the big policy issues. The vast majority of "foresters" are
paper pushers in gov., timber beasts, or academic hacks.
Those of us who actually practice real forestry should have a revolution and
take of OUR profession. Otherwise we're just pawns in this big struggles
between agencies, industry and enviros. I once thought the Guild would help
that to happen, but they've sold out too.
Forest owners everywhere are also screwed.
Joe
***************************************
"Larry Harrell" <lhfot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:89fdf2ec-59d2-44f6...@y18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
mhagen
The fire proof coast seems to be more sane than the interior. There are
some big fuel reduction sales going on now, even with log prices in the
pits.
Real fire scientists has been telling that story for years. Its just the
hangers on who don't understand that its a two edged sword. Or maybe a
bomb with a very short fuse.
Mike
Larry Harrell
Pennsylvania, a chunk of rotted wood fell out of a tree and clonked me
on the head. I just cursed the tree and moed on. Little did I know, my
increasing shoulder pain was the result of 3 squashed disks in my
neck. They denied my claim for benefits because I didn't fill out the
form in the allotted time. At the same time, an old rock climbing
injury combined with a bone spur in my heel to cause pain and damage
with daily work of my type.
And then pile on the disillusionment with the Forest Service. I still
support active management but question their ability to handle this
disaster.
I also quit posting at Grist's website. They clearly want to limit and
tax all CO2 emissions, EXCEPT the ones coming from our forests. Most
of their people don't want to talk about forests but, lingering shreds
of reason still exist there. When a forest topic comes up, there's the
usual howls about how Bush "eroded so many protections" from their
forests. And that "Healthy Forests", which their own democrats helped
craft, was the worst forest legislation for the environment ever. I'll
bet that the Clinton Administration cut a LOT more volume than Bush's
did. Whenever they don't have an answer to my proof and challenges,
they quickly pile up the trivial comments on other threads to push
mine off their "recent comments" list.
Maybe my future comments will now carry more weight, since I'm now an
EX-forester?
Larry
mhagen
all that abuse will all catch up with you sometime in your 40's. Then
its time for that retreading- I mean a career change.
Being an "ex" forester actually gives you more range ;-) You can expound
on things you don't know much about but you've got that straight-up guy
sort of status. And you finally have time to catch up on all that
related stuff you haven;t had time to read.
Joe
work to do.
While at lunch I was reading a local newspaper and there was an article
about a 61 year old doctor who looked like a real geezer- shucks, I'm almost
as old as that guy? I think my work in the woods has been great for my
health. Who gets more exercise while working?
On the rare occasion I lead a woods walk, nobody can keep up with me.
Joe
"mhagen" <mha...@nospamolympus.net> wrote in message
news:4sydncGIRJ8kiqnU...@posted.olypeninternet...
mhagen
escaped most of that but have various joints that should be replaced.
And likewise, I can still leave em in the dust but then I'm just 57.
And that's why people in Fire jobs can retire early. That should
include timber cruisers.
M
Larry Caldwell
13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, lhfot...@hotmail.com (Larry Harrell)
says...
> Well, not exactly "quit". A few years ago, while working in
> Pennsylvania, a chunk of rotted wood fell out of a tree and clonked me
> on the head. I just cursed the tree and moed on. Little did I know, my
> increasing shoulder pain was the result of 3 squashed disks in my
> neck. They denied my claim for benefits because I didn't fill out the
> form in the allotted time. At the same time, an old rock climbing
> injury combined with a bone spur in my heel to cause pain and damage
> with daily work of my type.
You need a good junkyard dog lawyer who specializes in workers comp
cases. Insurance companies make their money collecting premiums and
refusing to pay claims. If they turn you down, sue them. It's just
what you have to do.
To win a civil suit, all you have to do is present the preponderance of
the evidence. You have your work history and a medical report. They
have nothing. It's a slam dunk for a decent comp claim attorney. Don't
let them turn you into a broken old man.
Joe
from not hiring attorneys and paying for court suits, and not paying for
insurance companies, we'd all be a lot better off.
Joe
"Larry Caldwell" <firstnamel...@peaksky.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.239e45e66...@news.peaksky.com...
Larry Caldwell
says...
> Or we create a universal health care system! Then with all the money we save
> from not hiring attorneys and paying for court suits, and not paying for
> insurance companies, we'd all be a lot better off.
It's easy to die of old age cursing the system. The one we have works,
you just have to be your own advocate. If you let them screw you, they
will.
Larry Harrell
I'm out of luck. No lawyer is going to take a case like mine and I
still have the injury. It looks like I'll have to pay for surgery
myself, as this injury just isn't getting any better. I think I still
have my health plan but I have to pay a large deductible. They might
also be going after my sick leave I've used since August, because the
package of paperwork I sent them may have gotten lost after arriving
at their office. If they indeed terminated me, THEN I'll have a bona-
fide lawsuit.
LH
On Dec 1 2008, 7:05 pm, Larry Caldwell
Joe
health system. (dam socialist system, as D.S. would say <G>)
Joe
*******************
"Larry Harrell" <lhfot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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