Why I will never drink Petrus

[Joseph Coulter]

as much as I might want to.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100780290?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity
--
Joseph Coulter
lastnam...@gmail.com

[DaleW]

Well, you'll never drink it from the E Palace, but never say never. I'll never buy Petrus, but I depend on the genorosity of strangers (and friends) for my tastes of trophy wines.

[Mark Lipton]

Joseph Coulter wrote:
> as much as I might want to.
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100780290?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity

Just repeat after me, Joseph: it's just Merlot. Thrice nightly and
you'll feel better in no time. Just don't think about foxes and
grapevines ;-)

Mark Lipton

[Joseph Coulter]

When you put it that way :) I had some of that last night from Costco et
cie. Vin du Pays du Kirk! Just like it Wow to think . . .

--
Joseph Coulter
lastnam...@gmail.com

[Bi!!]

On Jun 2, 12:56 pm, Joseph Coulter <lastname.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> as much as I might want to.http://www.cnbc.com/id/100780290?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity
> --
> Joseph Coulter
> lastname.fi...@gmail.com

Wow. I have a couple of bottles left from days gone by and to be
honest it never met or exceeded any expectation I had for it. It was
basically just OK.

[lleichtman]

Same here. Have tasted several from great vintages, and while it was good, I never saw what the fuss was other than scarcity.

[Timothy Hartley]

In message <koh2a9$l9g$1...@speranza.aioe.org>

Thinking of what four legged creatures can get up to in a vineyard is,
of course, why the Jurats of Saint-Émilion in the middle ages used to
ban dogs from the vineyards in the period between between fruit set
and harvest.

Tim Hartley

[pavane]

> In message <koh2a9$l9g$1...@speranza.aioe.org>
> Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
>
>> Joseph Coulter wrote:
>>> as much as I might want to.
>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100780290?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity
>
>> Just repeat after me, Joseph: it's just Merlot. Thrice nightly and
>> you'll feel better in no time. Just don't think about foxes and
>> grapevines ;-)

Speaking of Merlot, last evening I was at a tasting that included
Ch. Bellevue Montaigu 2000 Fronsac. We were told that this
wine was 100% Merlot. I am under the impression that no Bordeaux
is 100% any grape, always a blend. I can't find any reference to
this on the internet, does anyone know for certain?
BTW the wine was basically unpleasant with a distinct burnt
rubber nose and taste. Blind I would have guessed a poorly
made Pinotage.

pavane

[DaleW]

There are the 5 permitted grapes, which are usually a blend, but no requirement for blend. People sometimes say Petrus is 100% Merlot, but think it has a tiny % CF. But pretty sure that there are a few St Emilion garagiste wines (Gomerie is one) that are 100% merlot, as are some Bordeaux AC and RB satellite wines.

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 10:26:08 -0700 (PDT), DaleW <dwm...@aol.com>
wrote:

> There are the 5 permitted grapes, which are usually a blend, but no requirement for blend.

Am I wrong or aren't there six permitted grapes?

Cabernet Sauvignon
Cabernet Franc
Merlot
Malbec
Petit Verdot
Carmenere

Although I don't think anyone uses Carmenere anymore (and even Petit
Verdot is very rarely used).


--
Ken Blake

[DaleW]

On Friday, June 7, 2013 1:59:20 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:

>
> Am I wrong or aren't there six permitted grapes?
>
>
>
> Cabernet Sauvignon
>
> Cabernet Franc
>
> Merlot
>
> Malbec
>
> Petit Verdot
>
> Carmenere
>
>
>
> Although I don't think anyone uses Carmenere anymore (and even Petit
>
> Verdot is very rarely used).
>
>
>

Apologies to those where this is a double post, I realized I had not posted in reply to Ken.


Carmenere might still be on the books, but my impression was it was not actually still found in Bordeaux. When they identified some vines in Chile previously thought to be Merlot as Carmenere, I think they did DNA tasting based on vines kept by the INRA
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/drink/2010/12/the_lost_grape_of_bordeaux.html
Pichon Lalande & Palmer have the highest routine PV content of any classified Bordeaux I know of, and I think still single digit percentage.

[pavane]

"DaleW" <dwm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3ccc80e9-8572-49c2...@googlegroups.com...

Thanks for the info; I didn't realize they could opt out of blending. Good
article on Carmenere, too.

pavane

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:56:19 -0700 (PDT), DaleW <dwm...@aol.com>
wrote:

> Carmenere might still be on the books, but my impression was it was not actually still found in
> Bordeaux.

Yes, as I said "Although I don't think anyone uses Carmenere
anymore..." But although it isn't used, I believe that it is still
permitted.

> Pichon Lalande & Palmer have the highest routine PV content of any classified Bordeaux
> I know of, and I think still single digit percentage.

Thanks. I knew that few used it, and those that did used very little,
but I didn't know who they were.


--
Ken Blake

[santiago]

"pavane" <pav...@ease.org> wrote in news:Asost.59177$d9.1956@en-nntp-
12.dc1.easynews.com:

>
> Speaking of Merlot, last evening I was at a tasting that included
> Ch. Bellevue Montaigu 2000 Fronsac. We were told that this
> wine was 100% Merlot. I am under the impression that no Bordeaux
> is 100% any grape, always a blend. I can't find any reference to
> this on the internet, does anyone know for certain?

Most are blends, but there are a few wines in Bordeaux which are only made
with one grape. La Gravičre in Lalande de Pomerol is one example: 100%
Merlot.

http://avis-vin.lefigaro.fr/vins-champagne/bordeaux/medoc/haut-
medoc/d18901-vignobles-pere-verge/v18908-chateau-la-graviere/vin-rouge

s.

[santiago]

Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote in news:koh2a9$l9g$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

>
> Just repeat after me, Joseph: it's just Merlot.

I agree.

At the end of (my) the day, it is just wine. I will let the wealthiest of
this world to drink all the Petrus while I look for all the excellent wines
out there without the need to break the bank.

s.

[greg lee]

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

[Billy]

In article <cc3b719e-bcb9-4e98...@googlegroups.com>,
DaleW <dwm...@aol.com> wrote:

> Carmenere might still be on the books, but my impression was it was not

> actually still found in Bordeaux. When they identified some vines in Chile
> previously thought to be Merlot as Carmenere, I think they did DNA tasting
> based on vines kept by the INRA
> http://www.slate.com/articles/life/drink/2010/12/the_lost_grape_of_bordeaux.ht
> ml

A vigneron Bordelais (circa 1982) told me that Carménčre wasn't
recommended, but was tolerated.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
<http://www.rachelcorrie.org/>

Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

[Billy]

In article
<122d3d31-f2ac-4ff4...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,

Wines aren't just a beverage, they can be status symbols as well, whose
lables can be conspicuously turned for others to see. Discriminating
enthusiasts, not wanting to be kidnapped, are demure in this regard.

[Billy]

In article <0m74r85h20fdlmp9r...@4ax.com>,

<http://www.lafite.com/fre/Domaines-bordelais/Chateau-Lafite-Rothschild/C
hateau-Lafite-Rothschild>

I think you'll find that Carmenere, and Malbec have fallen out of favor.

[Billy]

In article <Asost.59177$d9....@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com>,

For what it's worth
<http://www.decanter.com/wine/reviews/chateau-bellevue-montaigu-canon-fro
nsac/538553>
has it down as a merlot.

[pavane]

"Billy" <wild...@withouta.net> wrote in message
news:wildbilly-D7509...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...

> In article <Asost.59177$d9....@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com>,
> "pavane" <pav...@ease.org> wrote:
>
>> > In message <koh2a9$l9g$1...@speranza.aioe.org>
>> > Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Joseph Coulter wrote:
>> >>> as much as I might want to.
>> >>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100780290?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity
>> >
>> >> Just repeat after me, Joseph: it's just Merlot. Thrice nightly and
>> >> you'll feel better in no time. Just don't think about foxes and
>> >> grapevines ;-)
>>
>> Speaking of Merlot, last evening I was at a tasting that included
>> Ch. Bellevue Montaigu 2000 Fronsac. We were told that this
>> wine was 100% Merlot. I am under the impression that no Bordeaux
>> is 100% any grape, always a blend. I can't find any reference to
>> this on the internet, does anyone know for certain?
>> BTW the wine was basically unpleasant with a distinct burnt
>> rubber nose and taste. Blind I would have guessed a poorly
>> made Pinotage.
>>
>> pavane
>
> For what it's worth
> <http://www.decanter.com/wine/reviews/chateau-bellevue-montaigu-canon-fro
> nsac/538553>
> has it down as a merlot.

Sure does. Thanks for finding that page.

pavane

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:41:57 -0700, Billy <wild...@withouta.net>
wrote:

> In article <0m74r85h20fdlmp9r...@4ax.com>,
> Ken Blake <kbl...@kb.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 10:26:08 -0700 (PDT), DaleW <dwm...@aol.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > There are the 5 permitted grapes, which are usually a blend, but no
> > > requirement for blend.
> >
> >
> > Am I wrong or aren't there six permitted grapes?
> >
> > Cabernet Sauvignon
> > Cabernet Franc
> > Merlot
> > Malbec
> > Petit Verdot
> > Carmenere
> >
> > Although I don't think anyone uses Carmenere anymore (and even Petit
> > Verdot is very rarely used).
>
> <http://www.lafite.com/fre/Domaines-bordelais/Chateau-Lafite-Rothschild/C
> hateau-Lafite-Rothschild>
>
> I think you'll find that Carmenere, and Malbec have fallen out of favor.

Yes, I know--and the same with Petit Verdot. My comment had nothing to
do with what was in favor. As I said, it had to do with what was
permitted.

--
Ken Blake

[cwdjrxyz]

Petrus was not well known in many countries before WW2. The French owner of likely the best restaurant that NYC ever had catered to some of the most rich and famous of the day. When he was asked to help select a dry red wine from a large list of top wines, he very often suggested Petrus. Thus Petrus slowly became better known in the US. And prices slowly increased.

Also in France, Petrus had a lady owner who had much in common with Mme. Leroy. She would do nothing that might lower the quality. At one time a freeze killed most of the vines over a large area, and most vineyards replanted. Petrus did not and had a greatly reduced yield for many years as a result. The lady thought highly of the quality of her wine and refused to sell it for less than any other major red Bordeaux.

Although a very full wine,Petrus drinks better at a younger age than many famous first growths. Just because it does not choke you when young does not mean it is ready. I would not even try a top year Petrus less than 20 years. If you keep it properly stored, it is likely to improve in balance and complexity for many more years. The last Petrus I bought was in the 1970 before the price of it went into orbit. I still have several bottles of Petrus from the 1970s and earlier. I have yet to have a bottle of it that seems to be in decline, and most have improved with extended age. But you should be very careful if you buy older Petrus today. Some of it likely has had poor storage. Some , especially large formats, may have been faked.