Art--we know what we like
Martha <Leo Cox >
were making "popular" art in the truest sense of popular. They polled
folks from different countries to find out what they liked to see in
their pictures, and then set about to make pictures like that.
In the US, people like outdoor scenes with wild animals and groups of
people having fun. The story didn't say whether this is something that
citizens of other countries like, too--it did mention that only
Russians and an African country--Ethiopia?--liked religious subjects in
their pictures. USans also like historical figures. The painting they
made for the US shows a family having a picnic, with horses and a
hippopotamus (or something) and a little picture of George Washington
down in the corner.
What everyone in the world likes is the color blue, btw.
The most disliked things in pictures (again, for the US) were geometric
shapes in gold and peach tones. No one in the world, apparently, likes
abstract paintings.
What a bunch of clods we are!
Martha
debby
them:) Debby S.<sarg...@injersey.com>
"Martha
Hownow
Toronto Globe and Mail ran that a couple of months ago on a big color
spread that showed examples from various countries - but I do believe
in the end that it's a spoof - no poll really.
hm
Martha <Leo Cox >
>
> Dear Martha: If no one likes abstract paintings, why are there so many of
> them:) Debby S.<sarg...@injersey.com>
Maybe there are a lot of people who can't paint horsies? <G>
Martha
> "Martha
Martha <Leo Cox >
> > were making "popular" art in the truest sense of popular. They polled
> > folks from different countries to find out what they liked to see in
> > their pictures, and then set about to make pictures like that.
> >
> > In the US, people like outdoor scenes with wild animals and groups of
> > people having fun. The story didn't say whether this is something that
> > citizens of other countries like, too--it did mention that only
> > Russians and an African country--Ethiopia?--liked religious subjects in
> > their pictures. USans also like historical figures. The painting they
> > made for the US shows a family having a picnic, with horses and a
> > hippopotamus (or something) and a little picture of George Washington
> > down in the corner.
> >
> > What everyone in the world likes is the color blue, btw.
> >
> > The most disliked things in pictures (again, for the US) were geometric
> > shapes in gold and peach tones. No one in the world, apparently, likes
> > abstract paintings.
> >
> > What a bunch of clods we are!
> >
> > Martha
>
> spread that showed examples from various countries - but I do believe
> in the end that it's a spoof - no poll really.
>
> hm
Oh, man. Talk about busting my balloons. Hell's bells.
But your crime site is great, Howard--you really are talented.
Martha
Formica63
which is a sociological survey of the kind of art people have in their homes.
The author (David Halle) surveys homes in a series of socio-economic
categories, and finds a remarkable degree of similarity in preferences for
certain kinds of art work, and some variation in modes of display. For
example, family photos tend to be arranged in ways that facilitate rearrangment
(divorce etc). Landscapes tend to be displayed alone on a wall. Most people
have landscapes, whether they be print reproductions or original oils, and most
people offer similar reasons for having them -- tranquility, and so on.
His argument concerns "cultural capital," suggesting that it is a more
slippery concept than most allow -- since when did "high culture" actually
become a useful index of either class, or anything remotely resembling capital?
Halle's survey suggests it never did except in the minds of sociologists.
Halle sees more (cultural) difference between the capital-poor, cultural
capital-rich (academics, artists etc) and the other upper middle class
categories (managers, business people) than between, eg, capital rich upper
middle class and the lower class blue collar worker.
Anyway, the most amusing thing concerns the ubiquity of the landscape. In
particular, its relationship to abstract art is illuminating. Having
established that there is a strong preference for landscape across classes, and
that abstraction is preferred by the cultural capital rich (art dealers,
gallery owners, surveyed in the book), he asks the advocates of abstraction
what they like about it. Instead of answering as one might expect (formal
experimentation, say, the kind of thing one *learns* about the value of
abstraction -- texture, self-referentiality, any of that stuff) they answer
that they like what it reminds them of, or allows them to imagine. Whoa!
Already they have flunked their class on art theory. And guess what that
tends to be -- uh, landscapes. So much for the revolution against the tyranny
of representation.
Formica
Martha <Leo Cox >
Holy moly. Well, I do have a landscape here, in the dining room--no, I
have two, both in the dining room. Do I get credit for having them both
in a room we don't use? One of them is pretty nice, actually; it's a
painting of a forest fire. The other one is an old photo which has been
tinted (unconvincingly). The scene is desolate and boring to look at.
It's a dirt road, some trees along both sides, and telephone wires.
I think the concept of cultural-rich is pretty funny, though; don't you?
Martha
Formica63
>Holy moly. Well, I do have a landscape here, in the dining room--no, I
>have two, both in the dining room. Do I get credit for having them both
>in a room we don't use? One of them is pretty nice, actually; it's a
>painting of a forest fire. The other one is an old photo which has been
>tinted (unconvincingly). The scene is desolate and boring to look at.
>It's a dirt road, some trees along both sides, and telephone wires.
>
>I think the concept of cultural-rich is pretty funny, though; don't you?
I'm glad to hear those landscapes are unpeopled -- David Halle goes on about
the preference for peopled and unpeopled landscapes in different periods. Yep,
that's a perfect count. I have a painting of Ayers Rock (I guess people
mightn't know what that is -- it's the world's largest rock, basically, and
it's in the middle of Australia, and I should call it Ulhuru). No people!
Yes, cultural rich is pretty funny, and it's pretty interesting to read a book
that questions so many assumptions that people have made about the relationship
between "high culture" cultural capital, and plain old capital, assumptions
that seem pretty much unwarranted. On the other hands, I find a bit of
cultural appreciation usually satisfies my creditors without me having to
bother with more vulgar emollients, like, oh, money.
Formica
Hownow
<form...@aol.com> wrote:
In Canada - and I think in the United States, too, - a distinct art
preference developed from what was hung in train stations and on
trains. The commissions usually went to well-known artists of the
various periods - and for many rural and smalltown people - which is
what most of Canada (and again, the U.S.) was until post World War II.
Lots of Lake Superior shoreline, prairie 'scapes and Rocky Mountains
dominate the Canadian stuff - 'fact the notable Group of Seven
specialized in it with a style imported from Europe (forget the school
- but it's long been rendered obscure) which they saw at a show in
Buffalo, N.Y. around 1920. (Knox-Albright in Buffalo has a great
collection of Miro, by the way,)
howard
SSherr1033
>mightn't know what that is -- it's the world's largest rock, basically, and
>it's in the middle of Australia, and I should call it Ulhuru). No people!
Formica,
Isn't Ayers Rock where the baby got stolen by the dingos? Of course, the name
of the baby (Ariel?) and family escape me. There was a movie (and book) here
about it.
Sherr
Formica63
>Isn't Ayers Rock where the baby got stolen by the dingos? Of course, the
>name
>of the baby (Ariel?) and family escape me. There was a movie (and book) here
>about it.
Yep -- Azaria Chamberlain. Well remembered!
Formica
sal
>Formica63 wrote:
>>
>> If it makes you feel any better, Martha, there's a book called Inside
>> Culture which is a sociological survey of the kind of art people have
>Holy moly. Well, I do have a landscape here, in the dining room--no, I
>have two, both in the dining room. Do I get credit for having them both
>in a room we don't use? One of them is pretty nice, actually; it's a
>painting of a forest fire. The other one is an old photo which has been
>tinted (unconvincingly). The scene is desolate and boring to look at.
>It's a dirt road, some trees along both sides, and telephone wires.
>
>I think the concept of cultural-rich is pretty funny, though; don't you?
>
>Martha
I don't have any landscapes. Or maybe one is a landscape, of sorts. It is
an old poster from a radio station I used to love. It is an aerial view
of a canyon, with a guy standing up on the edge of a cliff playing a
saxaphone. But maybe posters don't count?
I have a couple of other pictures that I love, that were done by people
attempting to make their livings as artists. They are neither realistic,
nor abstract. Am I showing my complete lack of education regarding visual
arts yet? One is a sleeping woman with a moose looking in her window. My
children also particularly love this one because she is naked, sleeping
on her stomach. They think bare bottoms are hilarious. The other is a
whale and two turtles happily swimming in the ocean under a full moon.
Culturally bankrupt,
-Sal
Formica63
> One is a sleeping woman with a moose looking in her window
This sounds fantastic!
Formica
Formica63
>outcome of the entire episode.
It remains a mystery to this very day.
Formica
SSherr1033
>
>Formica
I thought I heard, fairly recently, they found some of her clothing or
blankets, that tended to backup what the parents said happened.
Sherr
Brown Sauce
wrote:
>What a bunch of clods we are!
Not "we," it's just the Garbage Humans! ;)-
**********
your pal,
The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
femin...@bigfoot.com
Martha
>
> In article <19991127004255...@ng-ch1.aol.com>, Formica63
> <form...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >have two, both in the dining room. Do I get credit for having them both
> > >in a room we don't use? One of them is pretty nice, actually; it's a
> > >painting of a forest fire. The other one is an old photo which has been
> > >tinted (unconvincingly). The scene is desolate and boring to look at.
> > >It's a dirt road, some trees along both sides, and telephone wires.
> > >
> > >I think the concept of cultural-rich is pretty funny, though; don't you?
> >
> > the preference for peopled and unpeopled landscapes in different periods.
> > Yep,
> > mightn't know what that is -- it's the world's largest rock, basically, and
> > it's in the middle of Australia, and I should call it Ulhuru). No people!
> >
> > that questions so many assumptions that people have made about the
> > relationship
> > between "high culture" cultural capital, and plain old capital, assumptions
> > that seem pretty much unwarranted. On the other hands, I find a bit of
> > cultural appreciation usually satisfies my creditors without me having to
> > bother with more vulgar emollients, like, oh, money.
> >
> > Formica
>
> In Canada - and I think in the United States, too, - a distinct art
> preference developed from what was hung in train stations and on
> trains. The commissions usually went to well-known artists of the
> various periods - and for many rural and smalltown people - which is
> what most of Canada (and again, the U.S.) was until post World War II.
> Lots of Lake Superior shoreline, prairie 'scapes and Rocky Mountains
> dominate the Canadian stuff - 'fact the notable Group of Seven
> specialized in it with a style imported from Europe (forget the school
> - but it's long been rendered obscure) which they saw at a show in
> Buffalo, N.Y. around 1920. (Knox-Albright in Buffalo has a great
> collection of Miro, by the way,)
>
> howard
Both my grandfathers worked for the railroad, so I spent a lot of time
as a kid in railroad stations and saw a lot of that kind of stuff. In
WV in the fifties what I recall was mostly WPA project murals, and
pretty grim murals at that.
The best WPA work I ever saw was in the YMCA in Harrisburg PA, where the
pool was tiled by artisans who decorated it with all kinds of sea-life
mosaics. It is absolutely splendid.
Martha
Martha <Leo Cox >
> >have two, both in the dining room. Do I get credit for having them both
> >in a room we don't use? One of them is pretty nice, actually; it's a
> >painting of a forest fire. The other one is an old photo which has been
> >tinted (unconvincingly). The scene is desolate and boring to look at.
> >It's a dirt road, some trees along both sides, and telephone wires.
> >
> >I think the concept of cultural-rich is pretty funny, though; don't you?
> >
>
> I don't have any landscapes. Or maybe one is a landscape, of sorts. It is
> an old poster from a radio station I used to love. It is an aerial view
> of a canyon, with a guy standing up on the edge of a cliff playing a
> saxaphone. But maybe posters don't count?
>
> I have a couple of other pictures that I love, that were done by people
> attempting to make their livings as artists. They are neither realistic,
> nor abstract. Am I showing my complete lack of education regarding visual
> arts yet? One is a sleeping woman with a moose looking in her window. My
> children also particularly love this one because she is naked, sleeping
> on her stomach. They think bare bottoms are hilarious. The other is a
> whale and two turtles happily swimming in the ocean under a full moon.
>
> Culturally bankrupt,
> -Sal
Yes, you're in big trouble, Sal. That sax player qualifies, I think, as
a person enjoying the outdoors, and that puts you right there in the
good old majority.
And nudes? You want to talk nudes??! My former cleaning lady, an Irish
woman, finally said to me in exasperation, "Don't you have paintings
without those damned triangles?!"
My son used to entertain the neighborhood children by explaining which
nude was which of their mothers. He got some of them right, too!
Martha
Martha <Leo Cox >
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:31:18 -0500, Martha <Leo Cox <lc...@aol.com>>
> wrote:
>
> >What a bunch of clods we are!
>
> Not "we," it's just the Garbage Humans! ;)-
>
What--blue *isn't* your favorite color?!
Martha
Formica63
>I thought I heard, fairly recently, they found some of her clothing or
>blankets, that tended to backup what the parents said happened.
Well yes, they found little Azaria's matinee jacket. One of the questions of
the case had been -- what happened to the matinee jacket, which Lindy swore
Azaria was wearing, but had not been found with the jumpsuit. The fact that
the matinee jacket turned up substantiated the general principle that Lindy was
being truthful, because her insistence on the matinee jacket had cost her
dearly in terms of general credibility. However, despite the fact that it
supported the fact of the Chamberlains' innocence, it never really assisted
much with establishing what did happen to that kid, although one might assume
that the entire story Lindy told was truthful, and a dingo did snatch Azaria
Chamberlain. That's pretty much what I think, anyway, and I have to confess I
was a LDI (Lindy Did It) through the early 1980s. A comparable discovery might
be the conclusive demonstration that there was an intruder at the Ramsey house
that night -- or that Patsy could not have possibly written the ransom note.
Anyway, you live and learn: I'd changed my mind well before the appearance of
the matinee jacket, but, incredibly, many still are suspicious of the
Chamberlains.
Formica
Formica63
>pool was tiled by artisans who decorated it with all kinds of sea-life
>mosaics. It is absolutely splendid.
I love that WPA art. I wish I had gone to the YMCA in Harrisburg!
Mosaic art, and terrazzo both are common in Australian public buildings
courtesy of immigration from mediterranean countries. There is some gorgeous
terrazzo in restrooms all over the place, quite amazingly. There's some
wonderful murals probably not unlike you describe at a swimming pool here in
North Sydney. Apart from, uh, Venice, the most beautiful tiling I have ever
seen is in Melbourne (Vic, not Fl). And the most beautiful floors I have seen
in my life were probably at the Peggy Guggenheim Museum in Venice, where the
terrazzo was dotted with shells: can't even describe how beautiful it was.
Has three rather plain bits of terrazzo in her apartment,
Formica.
Formica
GMSpider
>wrote:
>
>>What a bunch of clods we are!
>
>Not "we," it's just the Garbage Humans! ;)-
>
>
Art you say? Where is Elvis on black velvet?
America's Newest Cult Figures, A Case Study @http://gmspider.com
The GG/JoeCult@
http://members.aol.com/gmspider/JoeCult/index.htm
debby
Debby S.<sarg...@injersey.com> It's in my family room. I also have a
picture of an Abraham Lincoln college, a print of a Chinese emperer with
his two wives, a pictue of a bird sitting on a branch, a picture of some
houses in Europe, a little humorius picture of a bird hatching out of an
egg, a pictue of a duck getting shot at and a picture of an old woman
feeding her dog and a hand creeping out of the cooking pot to grab
her. Debby S.<sarg...@injersey.com>
Martha <Leo Cox >
The real mystery: What in the hell is a matinee jacket? And why does a
baby need one?
Martha
Martha <Leo Cox >
>
> >On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:31:18 -0500, Martha <Leo Cox <lc...@aol.com>>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>What a bunch of clods we are!
> >
> >Not "we," it's just the Garbage Humans! ;)-
> >
> >
> >**********
> >
> >your pal,
> >The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
> >femin...@bigfoot.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Art you say? Where is Elvis on black velvet?
>
Wow. You're right. How could those researchers not investigate velvet
paintings, especially of The King? There is a serious collecting market
for those paintings, btw--I posted a news story about it around a year
ago.
Martha
Martha <Leo Cox >
>
> I have a picture of the M31 galaxy in Andomeda in black velvet:)
> Debby S.<sarg...@injersey.com> It's in my family room. I also have a
> picture of an Abraham Lincoln college, a print of a Chinese emperer with
> his two wives, a pictue of a bird sitting on a branch, a picture of some
> houses in Europe, a little humorius picture of a bird hatching out of an
> egg, a pictue of a duck getting shot at and a picture of an old woman
> feeding her dog and a hand creeping out of the cooking pot to grab
> her. Debby S.<sarg...@injersey.com>
I like the sound of that last one, Debby. Is it colorful--I'm
envisioning a dark engraving, actually. Tell.
Martha
Formica63
>The real mystery: What in the hell is a matinee jacket? And why does a
>baby need one?
You don't have those? A little knitted jacket for a young baby -- no doubt you
call it something else. I confess, I had never heard the expression until the
Chamberlain case, but now I have to say I like it.
Formica
Martha <Leo Cox >
Like a ladies' bedjacket? I don't know what we call those things, but I
agree--"matinée jacket" paints a picture of a very soignée child, and I
like it.
Martha
SSherr1033
this all happened. 1980 and Lindy was convicted in 1982. The jacket and
blankets were found in 1986 (humm.... time flies - seems like it wasn't that
long ago). I wasn't a mom at the time, but remember thinking how horrible it
would be. You not only have the death of your child to deal with, but everyone
thinks you did it. There's really nothing that you can do to prove that you
didn't.
For whatever reason I never thought Lindy did it. Maybe my own naive inability
to believe that a parent could kill her child or just having been around
canines enough to know that it was "possible" for them to see a human infant as
a prey item.
Sherr
debby
Formica63
>I've been thinking about this, since we got started, and couldn't remember
>when
>this all happened. 1980 and Lindy was convicted in 1982.
I remember it all really well, because that was the year I left high school,
and this was *the* news item here for years. I worked in an office opposite
the Supreme Court when their appeal was being heard (1983/4) and we would watch
from our windows as the paddy wagon drove in every day . A woman in my office
was a staunch Lindy advocate -- the first I'd ever met. However, she was also,
well, a few slices short of the full loaf -- eg, she wore the same clothes to
work every day, and had some very unusual social views. So that tended to
confirm people in their stance. I remember her trying to muster support in the
office, with total lack of success.
I followed it all avidly. I was thoroughly convinced by the forensic evidence
that was submitted at the first trial, evidence that was, it proved, just
pretty unreliable. I never believed any of the "gossip" about the Chamberlains
-- eg, that "Azaria" meant "sacrifice in the wilderness" or any of that
nonsense. I think that the dingo story raised people's suspicions because it
seemed a little too convenient, not because it was improbable, which is just
about the kind of convoluted distrustful thing Australians might well think. :
)
Lindy's demeanour was held against her, and I remember thinking she acted
oddly, too. But I realise now (not being a teenager) that there's no way you
can interpret such things, though I also notice that there's similar talk about
Patsy R.
Similarly, the theory that Lindy did it seemed, for a time, the simplest and
most logical one, if you exclude questions of motive, which we all thought we
were being clever and doing. That turned out to be wishful thinking in terms
of the timeline the Crown proposed, but at the time it seemed more plausible.
This was quite a lesson to me in learning the way in which the media and the
Crown don't just report, or demonstrate, but argue, and interpret, and
hypothesize.
But hey, I was surprised it was as long ago as 1986 when they found the jacket.
Formica
SSherr1033
I had forgotten the "sacrifice in wilderness" part, I heard that here too.
That was the same year that there was a major child case here and I remember
being engrossed in it. Chrisitan Hobbs was killed by his step-moms son, at her
direction. That amazed me.
It's interesting to hear about it from someone who lived there during the trial
and media attention. Thank you.
Sherr
Formica63
>It's interesting to hear about it from someone who lived there during the
>trial
>and media attention. Thank you.
It was just amazing. Equally amazing was the fact that it became an
international story -- we're not so used to that.
Formica
Brown Sauce
wrote:
>Brown Sauce wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:31:18 -0500, Martha <Leo Cox <lc...@aol.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >What a bunch of clods we are!
>>
>> Not "we," it's just the Garbage Humans! ;)-
>>
>
>What--blue *isn't* your favorite color?!
>
>Martha
Only the faces of the leetle cheeldren as I do the Gilles De Rais!!!!