I'm 6 people away from you!
Dave A. Lartigue
What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the US?) is
only 6 people away from every other person. That is, through friends and
relations, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who etc who
knows [insert famous person here].
This sounds like possible hooey. What kind of research has been done to
arrive at this conclusion?
Dave
--
=============================================================================
Please excuse any typos, I am merely a brain in a vat and I do not type well.
=============================================================================
Frank Serpas III
>What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the US?) is
>only 6 people away from every other person. That is, through friends and
>relations, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who etc who
>knows [insert famous person here].
It's true! Here's how it works. I write a note that says
"Would you like to come to dinner?"
and give it to my dad (1). He gives it to his coworker, Lenny Simmons (2).
He gives it to his brother, Richard Simmons (3). He gives it to David
Letterman (4) during his next appearance on Late Show. Dave gives it to the
Fresh Prince (5) when *he* appears on Late Show. Finally, he gives it to
Sidney Poitier (6).
*****************************************************************************
Frank Serpas III ser...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
my SportsCenter highlight: USA wins World Cup, Americans say "we don't care"
JMingo
(Dave A. Lartigue) writes:
>What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the
US?) is
>only 6 people away from every other person. That is, through
friends and
>relations, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who
etc who
>knows [insert famous person here].
>This sounds like possible hooey. What kind of research has been
done to
>arrive at this conclusion?
I remember reading about one study about 20 years ago in which they
sent an envelope to one random name and asked them to get it to
another person in a far-off spot, laying out the ground rules that
they each person in each step had to send it to someone they
personally knew. If that was the only study that confirmed this, then
(if I recall correctly) it was a relatively small study group and
therefore suspect. But it was intriguing because it did indicate that
it took a relatively few number of steps to get from one person to
another. (But I recall it as being fewer steps than six, like three
or four, but that the packages all began and ended in the US).
Where did I read it? It might have been Psych Today, circa 1973-5.
Hope this helps.
danny burstein
could reach out and touch anyone else with only five or six intermediaries.
Answer: kind of true. In fct, Psychology Today, back when I was reading
it (1970 or so - sorry, can't be anymore precise) reported on one of the
studies. Basically a psych or socioly type handed out postcards to a
group of friends/students with someone elses name and address on them,
and had the first group -using only people known directly to them-
forward it across a person-to-person link.
The idea, which pretty much worked in practice, was that people know
about 500 people. Carry it another step forward and you get 250,000. Then
you get 125 million. then 7.5 billion.
or, in mathematical notation:
500^1 = 500
500^2 = 250 000
500^3 = 125 000 000
etc.
Now since there is a lot of overlap the numbers aren't really that huge.
Take a theoretical example: You're a Mormon in Salt Lake City and want to
reach someone n Israel. So, you give it to your local ?deacon? who knows
a rabbi who has a friend in Israel who then knows a member in the final
person's synagogue...
(kind of like a FOAF)
--
----------------------------------
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
-dan...@panix.com (or dbur...@mcimail.com)
tele...@news.delphi.com
>I remember reading about one study about 20 years ago in which they
>sent an envelope to one random name and asked them to get it to
>another person...
>But it was intriguing because it did indicate that it took a relatively
>few number of steps to get from one person to another. (But I recall
>it as being fewer steps than six, like three or four...
Funny, I'd've guessed more like ONE step to get from one person to
another.
Chuck "then again, the number of possible recipients rises
`logarithmically' with the number of middlemen" Anderson
Mark Alan Forrester
Frank Serpas III <ser...@huey.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>Dave A. Lartigue <lart...@prairienet.org> wrote:
>
>>What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the US?) is
>>only 6 people away from every other person. That is, through friends and
>>relations, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who etc who
>>knows [insert famous person here].
>
>It's true! Here's how it works. I write a note that says
>
>"Would you like to come to dinner?"
>
>and give it to my dad (1). He gives it to his coworker, Lenny Simmons (2).
>He gives it to his brother, Richard Simmons (3). He gives it to David
>Letterman (4) during his next appearance on Late Show. Dave gives it to the
>Fresh Prince (5) when *he* appears on Late Show. Finally, he gives it to
>Sidney Poitier (6).
What if you wanted to invite Sidney Poitier's brother?
Mark Forrester -- University of Maryland -- maf...@wam.umd.edu
Clay Shirky
>>It's true! Here's how it works. I write a note that says
>>
>>"Would you like to come to dinner?"
>>
>>and give it to my dad (1). He gives it to his coworker, Lenny Simmons (2).
>>He gives it to his brother, Richard Simmons (3). He gives it to David
>>Letterman (4) during his next appearance on Late Show. Dave gives it to the
>>Fresh Prince (5) when *he* appears on Late Show. Finally, he gives it to
>>Sidney Poitier (6).
>What if you wanted to invite Sidney Poitier's brother?
Are you kidding? That's even easier. Mark's dad's coworker, Lenny
Simmons, rowed crew in college with Trip Poitier (Sid's brother) way
back in the late 50's.
Clay "that's only _four_ steps" Shirky
--
Clay Shirky
pwpa...@news.delphi.com
>someone (I lost the original threader) asked about the rumor that anyone
>could reach out and touch anyone else with only five or six intermediaries.
>Answer: kind of true. In fct, Psychology Today, back when I was reading
>it (1970 or so - sorry, can't be anymore precise) reported on one of the
>studies. Basically a psych or socioly type handed out postcards to a
>group of friends/students with someone elses name and address on them,
>and had the first group -using only people known directly to them-
>forward it across a person-to-person link.
Some of the business books on the shelf contain lines from the author
stating they are only three people away from anyone reading the book
because of all of their contacts...(you are considered one of the three)
Jack Campin
> What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the US?) is
> only 6 people away from every other person. That is, through friends and
> relations, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who etc who
> knows [insert famous person here].
> This sounds like possible hooey. What kind of research has been done to
> arrive at this conclusion?
This led to one of the dullest a.f.u threads ever a year or two ago.
The experiment that started this worked by picking widely separated pairs
of mutually unknown people and asking them to try to get letters to each
other, given only a name and a town, by a chain of acquaintances. I think
this study was done in the early 70s.
It turned out that the way most people made contact was by using some
intermediaries as post offices; some folk, like mayors or doctors, know
a *lot* of people. Thus: if I wanted to get a letter to someone in
showbiz I'd do it through Madonna, who is one hop away from me via a
mutual acquaintance; if I wanted to get at a politico I'd do it via
someone I shared a student hostel with who became a cabinet minister;
if I wanted the US intelligentsia I'd do it via Noam Chomsky, who I
met once and who has a friend in common with me; if wanted to get in
touch with someone in the Glasgow criminal underworld... well, let's
just say I could do it.
Dave, how many hops from Henri Cartier-Bresson are you?
--
-- Jack Campin -- Room 1.36, Department of Computing & Electrical Engineering,
Mountbatten Building, Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AS
TEL: 031 449 5111 ext 4195 HOME: 031 556 5272 FAX: 031 451 3431
INTERNET: ja...@cee.hw.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL BANG!net: via mcsun & uknet
David Maddison
>
>What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the US?) is
>only 6 people away from every other person. That is, through friends and
>relations, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who etc who
>knows [insert famous person here].
>
>This sounds like possible hooey. What kind of research has been done to
>arrive at this conclusion?
Sounds plausible.
Consider that everyone in the US knows or can communicate with 25 people.
1 person knows 25 people. If each of these also know 25, then 625
people can communicate.
3 people are "interconnected" with 5625 people (including themselves)
4 " 390,625
5 " 9,765,625
6 " 244,140,625
Thus a chain of 6 people, each with a communication ability of some kind
to 25 others can have "interconnectivity" with a population about
that of the US. In reality, you are probably much less than 6 "hops"
from any other individual because of the ability of the mass media to reach
millions at once. Also, electronic networks like the 'Net make
human networking even more efficient.
On another note, I have heard similiar figures for genetic
inter-relatedness. In the UK, it iis said that no-one in the indigineous
population is more than 6 times removed from the Royal Family.
David Maddison
Cybernomad.
Chris Cannon
This kind of relates to a discussion I had w/ a cow orker.
Think about your direct ancestors:
10 generations (about 250 years): 2^10 = 1024
40 generations (about 1000 years): 2^40 = 1.099511e+12 (over a trillion)
Whole lotta overlap.
--
--
=================
can...@netcom.com
Lee Rudolph
>On another note, I have heard similiar figures for genetic
>inter-relatedness. In the UK, it iis said that no-one in the indigineous
>population is more than 6 times removed from the Royal Family.
Somewhat odd, considering how non-indigenous (to the UK) that Family
is.
Lee "Alexander Cockburn calls them a gang of Krauts, but I wouldn't
do that" Rudolph
Anil Das
|> What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the US?) is
|> only 6 people away from every other person. That is, through friends and
|> relations, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who etc who
|> knows [insert famous person here].
1]. You can't just go by combinations, can you? For example, what is the number
of moves required to bring any rubik's cube configuration to the
`pristine' state.
2]. Why not conduct a new survey to see if every body has a Kibo number
less than or equal to six?
Anil "Joel Furr wrote to me. So did Dave DeLaney. What is my Kibo number?" Das
Len Jaffe
>What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the US?) is
>only 6 people away from every other person.
That research was done by the famous Stanley Milgrim. The same guy who did
the experiment where he got people to "give" painful electric shocks to
other people under the guise of another experiment. These "shockers",
when asked why they would do such a thing to another human being, would
generally reply "I was only doing what I was told." This was made even
more famous by a song on Peter Gabriel's ubiquitous "SO" CD.
Anyway, Milgrim devised some experiment in which people would be given
cards, to be delivered to somebody else, and they were to to forward the card
to somebody they thought could help, if they didn't know the person
themselves. They came up with an average of around six hops.
ObNameDrop: My wife's parents once rented a house from Stanley Milgrim's
brother. That puts me at five degrees from the man who brought you the
six.
lenny. "MOTTO! MOTTO! MOTTO! GIF! GIF! GIF! I always wanted to say that!"
--
Leonard A. Jaffe - hawk...@mcs.kent.edu
My heart is a flower. - King Missile
Steve Mayer
: This kind of relates to a discussion I had w/ a cow orker.
: Think about your direct ancestors:
: 10 generations (about 250 years): 2^10 = 1024
: 40 generations (about 1000 years): 2^40 = 1.099511e+12 (over a trillion)
: Whole lotta overlap.
I think the "family tree" collapses before that, at least with humans.
Steve Mayer
: Anil "Joel Furr wrote to me. So did Dave DeLaney. What is my Kibo number?"
: Das
Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
David DeLaney
>lart...@prairienet.org (Dave A. Lartigue) writes:
>|> What's up with the notion that every person in the world (in the US?) is
>|> only 6 people away from every other person. That is, through friends and
>|> relations, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who etc who
>|> knows [insert famous person here].
>
>1]. You can't just go by combinations, can you? For example, what is the number
> of moves required to bring any rubik's cube configuration to the
> `pristine' state.
AFAIK, nobody actually knows yet; knowing this would mean one was a long way
towards finding "God's algorithm" for solving the cube (since just knowing the
*number* of moves from any given state means you can try all one-move things
to see which one(s) has a number one *less*, and repeat until solved, you
see...).
>2]. Why not conduct a new survey to see if every body has a Kibo number
> less than or equal to six?
That was sort of the original idea; it was supposed to be analogous to Erdos
number among mathematicians (where the relevant operator is "cowrote a paper
with"). Eventually, everyone on UseNet will acquire Kibo number = 1 (not
counting special cases like Ted Frank).
>Anil "Joel Furr wrote to me. So did Dave DeLaney. What is my Kibo number?" Das
Go easy on her, people - that was pain and suffering enough, no?
Dave "Well, until Kibo emails to you or follows you up, it's 2" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney: d...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu; "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. Disclaimer: IMHO; VRbeableFUTPLEX
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ for net.legends FAQ+miniFAQs; ftp: cathouse.org
Lee Rudolph
>Chris Cannon (can...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: This kind of relates to a discussion I had w/ a cow orker.
...(calculation omitted)
>: Whole lotta overlap.
> I think the "family tree" collapses before that, at least with humans.
And all the sooner, with cows.
Lee "New Ork, New Ork, it's a wonderful town" Rudolph
Andrew Lewis
|> someone (I lost the original threader) asked about the rumor that anyone
|> could reach out and touch anyone else with only five or six intermediaries.
|>
|>
|> The idea, which pretty much worked in practice, was that people know
|> about 500 people. Carry it another step forward and you get 250,000. Then
|> you get 125 million. then 7.5 billion.
|>
|>
|> Now since there is a lot of overlap the numbers aren't really that huge.
I should hope not. Even a cigarette ad on a Formula 1 racing car
(the widest viewed advertising space in the world) can only reach
18 billion people, as we have reliably been informed by, I think,
the AMA and sundry politicians and news media.
Andrew "Now if you got billboard space at the World Cup...?" Lewis
pwpa...@news.delphi.com
>(the widest viewed advertising space in the world) can only reach
>18 billion people, as we have reliably been informed by, I think,
>the AMA and sundry politicians and news media.
Damn. The population explosion was a little underestimated...
bill nelson
:
: ObNameDrop: My wife's parents once rented a house from Stanley Milgrim's
: brother. That puts me at five degrees from the man who brought you the
: six.
Let's test it. Have all the people you know contact all the people they
know and have them list all the people that they know.
I will then have all the people I know contact all the people that they
know and have them ask them if they know anyone on the list.
Bill "should be simple - right?" Nelson
Derek Tearne
>d...@hpcll63.cup.hp.com (Anil Das) writes:
>>Anil "Joel Furr wrote to me. So did Dave DeLaney. What is my Kibo number?" Das
>
>Go easy on her, people - that was pain and suffering enough, no?
>
>Dave "Well, until Kibo emails to you or follows you up, it's 2" DeLaney
And if Kibo, Dave or Joel follow you home it's...
Derek "and one of the three _looks_ like a serial killer" Tearne
--
Derek Tearne. -- de...@fujitsu.co.nz -- Fujitsu New Zealand --
Some of the more environmentally aware dinosaurs were worried about the
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.