Urban Legend of the Day: Surviving Execution
Joel Furr
executed, be it electrocution, firing squad, hanging, or whatever, the
prison must not only take heroic measures to save your life but you cannot
be 're-executed'.
As I've often heard it, there's this LAW that says that if someone
survives an execution attempt, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to
try a second time and hence they must be patched up and set free.
Or, instead of being set free, have their sentence commuted to life
imprisonment. Or whatever.
I've also heard that if you survive an execution attempt, the prison has
to patch you back up, nurse your wounds, get you all healthy, and THEN
execute you.
Anyone else heard this 'un, or variations on it? Note: there are
historical examples of people being set free or given life imprisonment
instead, but the point is that there's not some law that mandates it. In
fact, in the more recent spate of executions, I believe the practice is
simply try, try again -- with no delay.
Sean Smith
wrote:
>
> Urban legend of the day: if by some stroke of luck you survive being
> executed, be it electrocution, firing squad, hanging, or whatever, the
> prison must not only take heroic measures to save your life but you cannot
> be 're-executed'.
>
> As I've often heard it, there's this LAW that says that if someone
> survives an execution attempt, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to
> try a second time and hence they must be patched up and set free.
>
Earlier this century, an Englishman named John "Babbacombe" Lee was
sentenced to hang for the murder of his landlady, even though the evidence
was circumstantial at best (and, it was believed, there was a desire on the
part of the authorities to punish *somebody*, and quickly, because the
crime was so brutal).
Lee was brought to the gallows, which had been tested and found to be in
working order, and had the customary bag over the head and the noose put
'round his neck. The hangman pulled the lever, but Lee stayed right where
he was.
The officials took Lee off to the side, still in his hood, and tested the
apparatus. It seemed to work fine. The hangman put Lee back into the noose,
and threw the lever. Nothing.
They took Lee off to the side AGAIN, tested the trap AGAIN, found it worked
AGAIN and tried it on Lee AGAIN. Still did not work.
When they couldn't do it on the third time, Lee -- who was practically
suffocating inside the hood -- was given his release. He went on to live a
not particularly fulfilling life afterwards, but he did live.
This story was adapted by the group Fairport Convention for their album
"Babbacombe Lee"--I don't have the record, unfortunately, but from what I
remember seeing of it they provided some pretty solid source material.
EXECUTION STORY #2
This one is closer to the UL genre, 'cause I heard it from a grade school
buddy of mine. As he had heard it, this guy actually survived the electric
chair, although he was horribly burned and mutilated. The authorities took
him out of the chair and were making arrangements to let him go, but then
the guy happened to catch sight of himself in a mirror (or perhaps the
reflecting glass where the witnesses sit behind) and was so horrified he
died of a heart attack.
By golly, this is an awful cheery subject...
smt...@bcvms.bc.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"In real life, one must look out the window"
----------------------------------------------
"When I say 'Yes,' it's only a manner of speaking."
******************************
Eugene Ionesco, "The Bald Soprano"
Ted Frank
>EXECUTION STORY #2
>This one is closer to the UL genre, 'cause I heard it from a grade school
>buddy of mine. As he had heard it, this guy actually survived the electric
>chair, although he was horribly burned and mutilated. The authorities took
>him out of the chair and were making arrangements to let him go, but then
>the guy happened to catch sight of himself in a mirror (or perhaps the
>reflecting glass where the witnesses sit behind) and was so horrified he
>died of a heart attack.
People do survive the electric chair not infrequently, though the standard
procedure is to reapply the electricity quickly before anyone notices.
The Texas Law Review published a Comment on this in the last year or two.
--
ted frank "Why do people hate Zima so much when it doesn't taste worse
the law skool than any other form of vinegar?"
the u of c
kibo#=0.5 -- James Parry
Sean Willard
|
| People do survive the electric chair not infrequently, though the standard
| procedure is to reapply the electricity quickly before anyone notices.
One of my favorite Far Sides is the one with a poor terrified soul
strapped to the chair while one guard says to another whose hand is on
the switch:
"Well, try jiggling it up and down a few times."
--
Sean Willard
don't worry, it's just a lot of
fluorescing phosphor atoms behind glass.
T. P. Uschanov
>As I've often heard it, there's this LAW that says that if someone
>survives an execution attempt, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to
>try a second time and hence they must be patched up and set free.
>
>I've also heard that if you survive an execution attempt, the prison has
>to patch you back up, nurse your wounds, get you all healthy, and THEN
>execute you.
I have reason to believe that this belief emanates from the part of
the U. S. Constitution which states that the "life or limb," whatever
that may be interpreted to mean, of no one shall be risked twice for the
same offense. I cannot regrettably quote it word-for-word, not having a
copy of at hand. However, in 1946 the Supreme Court decided (in Francis
ex rel. v. Resweber) that a second execution may be carried out if the
prisoner survives the first one. The case concerned the electrocution of
Willie Francis, a black 17-year-old in Louisiana, and who was successfully
executed the following year.
By the way, I am personally extremely interested in the history, theory
and practice of capital punishment, including anecdotes like this, and
would very much like to hear from other Internet users interested in the
same. There is an alt.activism.death-penalty newsgroup, which however
mainly concerns itself with the pros and cons of the death penalty.
T. P. Uschanov
Joensuu, Finland
Brian Gordon
who had to be "zapped" repeatedly in the electric chair because they didn't
die from previous attempts? Maybe 5 tries in the same half-hour don't count?
Helge Moulding
: [What about the idea that a condemned man surviving one
: execution cannot be executed again?]
First of all, that is obviously not true (and I guess we
all know that). Just reading accounts of various executions,
particularly by lethal injection and by electric chair, shows
that the executioners will *keep going* until no sign of life
is left. At some point there is a doctor who checks for vital
signs. What I don't remember reading is if the doctor checks
during the execution, or only after the executioner is
satisfied.
I can see some reason for questions here since to me it seems
that abetting an execution (that is, checking for vital signs,
and telling the man in the mask, "he isn't dead, yet") might
be considered unethical medical practice. But I don't play a
doctor on TV, so I don't know...
I do remember reading stories from earlier, more innocent times,
where executions were in effect a trial by ordeal. One particular
story had M Guillotine attending a ship launching. A condemned man
was sent into the dry dock to knock the last chock away and send
the finished vessel sliding into the harbor. The ship, however
was set to slide *sideways*, and the last chock was placed in the
very middle of the ship's body. The idea was that the condemned
man couldn't possibly run fast enough to escape being turned into
a bit of red slime. The story had it that Guillotine invented the
machine that bears his name because he felt this was a barbaric
practice. In the end a prisoner in a passing chain-gang swung a
hammer at his head and killed him. Supposedly the prisoner resented
not having his chance to escape execution anymore.
I don't even know if any of that story is correct. I do know that
M Guillotine did not *invent*, or even "improve" the machine. He
was part of a humanist group who presented this idea to some
legislative body in France, sometime around their Revolution.
Details are faint at best...
--
Helge "And this at a time where guilt and
innocence was often determined by ordeal..." Moulding
Richard N Kitchen
the State of Illinois to deliver a lethal injection (actually, a set of
three injections) malfunctioned during Gacy's execution, and he was
unconscious for eightteen minutes before he finally died.
Rick "How much are his paintings worth now that he's dead?" Kitchen
Gary Peterson
execution in a nearby state about two years ago.
Had to jolt the guy 3 times before the Doc declared
him dead. Claimed he was out cold after
the first fry. Antique equipment was blamed.
(Yeah, sure.)
If you get a chance, look at a film
of an old electrocution. Very grisly.
The one I saw (Ethel Rosenberg?) had
a hood over the head but the shakes etc.
were gruesome.
Nowadays prisons prevent filming since
they know that if it got on the
network news it would be banned
instantly.
And we look down at countries that chop
off the hands of thieves.
kei...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
> Urban legend of the day: if by some stroke of luck you survive being
> executed, be it electrocution, firing squad, hanging, or whatever, the
> prison must not only take heroic measures to save your life but you cannot
> be 're-executed'.
>
> As I've often heard it, there's this LAW that says that if someone
> survives an execution attempt, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to
> try a second time and hence they must be patched up and set free.
Don't know about any particular laws, but there is no point to a law
which requires something on the grounds of "cruel and unusual
punishment". Protection from that is written into the Constitution
(here in the US; I believe it's written on the back of a Foster's can
Down Under); if you could get a court to agree that re-executing
really *is* cruel and unusual, no law would be necessary. (And if you
couldn't make that case, a law declaring that it was probably wouldn't
stick.)
> I've also heard that if you survive an execution attempt, the prison has
> to patch you back up, nurse your wounds, get you all healthy, and THEN
> execute you.
Prisoners awaiting execution are generally kept in good shape. They
are carefully prevented from commiting suicide to "cheat the hangman"
and given medical care if they need it up to the time of the
execution. Some weird theory about having to fully experience the
execution so society can satisfy itself of its effulgent humanity by
listening to the screams (I paraphrase).
However, bungled executions do not buy you a trip to the hospital;
typically they just prop you up and keep trying. One reason for this
is the careful wording of the death sentence itself, usually something
along the lines of "hanged by the neck until dead", "suffer death by
firing squad", "suffer death by electrocution", etc. The *penalty
itself* *is* *death*; if it just said "be shot by a firing squad" then
you could argue that the sentence had been carried out even if the
prisoner was just wounded. By specifying death in the sentence
itself, the sentence has not been carried out until the person is
*dead* and there would be no reason to stop until then. In actual
fact, most recent electrocution-style deaths have required numerous
jolts of current, between which the prisoner's heart can be traced
beating on a monitor, and sometimes the prisoners move. They just
keep flipping the switch. In practical terms, there is no way to take
the prisoner off and give them treatment, because the execution just
proceeds until they're dead; they reload the rifles (this is common in
shooting executions), give more electricity, etc. Hangings sometimes
fail because the prisoner's neck doesn't break; the person is just let
dangle 'til they strangle (though executioners have been know to pull
on the prisoner's legs to help them along - see _Judgement at
Nuremburg_).
Unusual? No. Cruel? Not according to the merry group who danced and
sang to celebrate the recent Virginia execution of John Thanos [sic!].
God bless America, y'all.
Kevin "I drank what!?" T. Keith
Alan Tait (0013 ptfe)
>As I've often heard it, there's this LAW that says that if someone
>survives an execution attempt, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to
>try a second time and hence they must be patched up and set free.
>
>Or, instead of being set free, have their sentence commuted to life
>imprisonment. Or whatever.
>
snip
"Cruel and unusual" sounds like something from the US constitution, can
anyone help a poor Brit out by completing the clause?
There was one documented case here in the UK of a man cheating the
gallows, I think it was around the turn of the century. His name was John
Lee and he was accused of the murder of the woman that he worked for in
Babbacombe, south Devon. (near my home, I remember this from a programme
that the local TV station did many years back).
He was put on the gallows but the trap didn't drop when the lever was
pulled; he was taken off and the mechanism tested. It worked, he was put
back but it failed again. This was repeated again and after the third
attempt he was told that English law at the time said that if the trap
failed three times it was taken to be a Act of God and that his sentence
was to be commuted to X years hard labour.
He survived his sentence and died a free man and minor celebrity of his
day. The TV programme hinted that the Act of God was more likely collusion
between Lee and someone in the execution chamber and the trap may have been
rigged such that the weight of his accomplice standing on a prearranged
spot jammed the trap.
A question back at you: is it true that one of the weapons used to execute
someone by firing squad is loaded with a blank so that each marksman can
believe that they didn't fire the lethal shot? Sounds like it could be
folklore?
Cheers,
Alan.
ludator
clause of the Bill of Rights, which states that no suspect can be twice
placed in jeopardy of life or limb for the same offense.
However, this clause refers to those accused of a crime, not those
convicted of one. You can't be /tried/ twice for the same crime (assuming
the trial has been finished with a "Guilty" or "Not Guilty" verdict --
Mistrials, dismissed cases, and hung juries don't count); but once
convicted of a crime, the sentence MUST be carried out, unless commuted or
pardoned by a court or government official.
Since there is no law forcing such a commution (or at least the NIU Law
Library couldn't find one), I think it's safe to say that if the whole
firing squad misses the first shot, they ARE allowed to reload. :-)
James Nicoll + Jasmine
wrote:
>
> Urban legend of the day: if by some stroke of luck you survive being
> executed, be it electrocution, firing squad, hanging, or whatever, the
> prison must not only take heroic measures to save your life but you cannot
> be 're-executed'.
>
> As I've often heard it, there's this LAW that says that if someone
> survives an execution attempt, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to
> try a second time and hence they must be patched up and set free.
Probably not true in the US. When the Rosenbergs were executed
in the 1950s, Julius died pretty quickly, but Ethel had to be electro-
cuted over and over again to die. Eye-witnesses appeared very revolted
by the sight of a smoking, twitching woman being fried several times; it
was pretty unpleasant to watch by all accounts [Possibly worse from Mrs.
Rosenberg's POV, but I don't know to what extent she was conscious after
the first zap].
Insert Edison quotation here regarding electrocution as a
form of execution.
James Nicoll
--
"I didn't say you had little beady eyes. I said you had little
_piggy_ eyes."
- My girlfriend, correcting a misunderstanding.
DaveHatunen
lines instead of just the three they have now. But the cable car
companies were run by men who had a lot of power, were very stingy, and
controlled the state legislature.
Anyway, Ed Jones was a conductor on one of the cable car companies. He
had a wife and a little five-year old daughter. His little girl was
very, very cute and he loved her very much. Jones' salary was very
small, and he could never afford to buy much for his little girl.
One day his cable car was in his home neighborhood. As they approached
a corner near his house he saw his little girl standing on the corner.
When the car stopped she came up and said, "Daddy, can I have a nickel
for an ice cream cone?"
Well, he looked thorough all his pockets, but he knew ahead of time
that he wasn't going to have a spare nickel. He said, "I'm sorry,
honey. I don't have a nickel."
She began to cry, "A-a-a-w, Daddy, I wanna ice cream cone!"
Jones could never stand to see his little darling cry, and he
frantically searched even deeper in his pockets. Nothing.
She began to just sort of sniffle and sob quietly. That was the worst
of all, and he snuck furtive glances around. Certain he was clear he
snatched a nickel out of the cable car coin box and gave it to the
little girl.
But he wasn't clear; there was a company detective on the cable car
that day and in no time at all he was standing in front of the judge to
receive sentence.
The judge looked at him gravely, and said, "I'm not sure I agree with
the law, but the law says that stealing even a nickel from a transit
company is a capital crime. So I hereby sentence you to twenty minutes
in the electric chair. Sentence is to be executed at 6:00 p.m. this
evening."
So the guards took him in the execution chamber and strapped him in the
chair. His wife and daughter were distraught and they sat in the corner
just crying and crying. The guard threw the switch. And for twenty
minutes he just sat there, with a sheepish grin on his face.
As his wife and daughter cried and cried, the guards did
trouble-shooting on the chair, but could find nothing wrong.
So he was taken back before the judge, who seemed puzzled. He said, "I
don't understand it. I direct the guards to strap you in the chair and
turn on the juice for three hours."
So again the guards strapped him in the chair. Again they turned on the
electricity. Again his wife and daughter were crying and crying. And
again he just sat there grinning... for three hours.
And again, they took him to the judge.
The judge was now becoming agitated. He said, "Guards, it's Friday
evening. I want you to strap him in that damn chair for the entire
weekend. Check back with me Monday morning."
So the guards strapped him in the chair, and turned on the power. His
wife and daughter were almost howling with grief as the guards left to
go fishing for the weekend.
When the guards returned Monday morning they found his wife and
daughter almost passed out from grief. But they when they looked at
Jones he looked back and said weakly, "I'm really, really hungry."
So they took him back before the judge, who began to feel a mixture of
frustration and compassion. The judge said gently, "We've tried three
times now to electrocute you. I don't guess we can do it. I'm going to
let you go free, but on one condition: you have to tell me why in the
Hell we can't electrocute you!"
Jones looked down at his feet and shyly said, "Well now, judge. I can't
be really sure, but it might be because...
|
v
|
v
|
v
|
v
... I'm just a poor conductor"
Mary Shafer
Helge Moulding <h...@unislc.slc.unisys.com> wrote:
>Joel Furr (jf...@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:
>: [What about the idea that a condemned man surviving one
>: execution cannot be executed again?]
>
>First of all, that is obviously not true (and I guess we
>all know that). Just reading accounts of various executions,
>particularly by lethal injection and by electric chair, shows
>that the executioners will *keep going* until no sign of life
>is left.
A less recent example is the execution of one of the wives of Henry
VIII. The unskilled executioner botched the first, beheading stroke
and had to keep chopping away until he finally hewed her head off.
This was apparently so grisly that the witnesses were quite shocked,
which says a lot considering the standards of the day.
--
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR sha...@ursa-major.spdcc.com
Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end....
Warren vonRoeschlaub
In article <smthsen-19...@oc24.bc.edu>, smt...@bcvms.bc.edu (Sean Smith)
writes:
>EXECUTION STORY #2
>This one is closer to the UL genre, 'cause I heard it from a grade school
>buddy of mine. As he had heard it, this guy actually survived the electric
>chair, although he was horribly burned and mutilated. The authorities took
>him out of the chair and were making arrangements to let him go, but then
>the guy happened to catch sight of himself in a mirror (or perhaps the
>reflecting glass where the witnesses sit behind) and was so horrified he
>died of a heart attack.
Sounds like a garbled account of the first US execution by electric
chair. Since nobody had done it before they weren't sure what would
happen, how much electricity was needed, etc. The ended up shocking
the guy half a dozen times before he was declared dead, and then,
while in the morgue he came to (apparently he was just in a short
coma or something). He died while they were waiting for the
executioner to return.
--
Warren Kurt | By virtue of being correct, the opinions expressed
vonRoeschlaub | above could not conceivably be those of ISU.
If Kurt says something weird, you might want to check
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kv07/
patrick braden
>Lee was brought to the gallows, which had been tested and found to be in
>working order, and had the customary bag over the head and the noose put
>'round his neck. The hangman pulled the lever, but Lee stayed right where
>he was.
Sounds like the story of Sam Hall who was a conductor on the
Southern Pacific railroad in Southern California during the
30's. Sam was convicted of deliberately running his train
over some kids who were playing on the tracks. For this he
was sentenced to be electrocuted. The first time they threw
the switch it had no effect on him, so they upped the
voltage and tried again. This was no more effective than
the first time so they tried a third time. Again no effect.
Finally, they had to let him go.
You can't pass electricity through a bad conductor.
Pat "just another Delphoid" Braden
------------------------------------------------------------
Posted from the Peoples Republic of Santa Monica, a more
Republican peoples republic than that lesser known one up
North.
Ted Frank
>Well, John Wayne Gacy found this not to be true. The equipment used by
>the State of Illinois to deliver a lethal injection (actually, a set of
>three injections) malfunctioned during Gacy's execution, and he was
>unconscious for eightteen minutes before he finally died.
Here's the brilliant part: chemical one puts him to sleep, chemical two
does something, and then chemical three finally stops the heart-beat.
Except the bozos forgot to rinse the tubes with saline solution in
between the dosages. So the chemicals one and two were a base and
an acid, the residue reacted in the tube, and the tube clogged with
the resulting salt. The window-shades through which the execution is
being watched are shut, they fiddle with the tubes for a few minutes,
they reopen the shades showing a very purple-looking Gacy, and they
finally get around to killing him.
Tim A. Dowd
writes:
> EXECUTION STORY #1
[excellent story about failed gallows trap door deleted]
Hmm, sounds like the trap wouldn't work when there was someone
standing on it, as though the weight was preventing the catch
from releasing.
Nah, couldn't be that simple, they'd've thought of that, right?
Tim "But then, I'm not a hardware guy either." Dowd
--
"Mama, don't let your babies grow up to do COBOL."
bill nelson
: In article <smthsen-19...@oc24.bc.edu> Sean Smith, smt...@bcvms.bc.edu
: writes:
: > EXECUTION STORY #1
: [excellent story about failed gallows trap door deleted]
:
: Hmm, sounds like the trap wouldn't work when there was someone
: standing on it, as though the weight was preventing the catch
: from releasing.
:
: Nah, couldn't be that simple, they'd've thought of that, right?
Yep, they check them with a dead weight first.
Bill "And, if it works, then they have a dead weight afterwards" Nelson
Barbara Hamel
In a previous article, sha...@spdcc.com (Mary Shafer) says:
>A less recent example is the execution of one of the wives of Henry
>VIII. The unskilled executioner botched the first, beheading stroke
>and had to keep chopping away until he finally hewed her head off.
>This was apparently so grisly that the witnesses were quite shocked,
>which says a lot considering the standards of the day.
Two of Henry VIII's wives were executed -- Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard.
Both were beheaded; Anne by sword (her special request for a French
swordsman was granted) and Catherine by axe. Both executions went smoothly.
The beheading of the Countess of Shrewsbury (which took place in the same
time period) was particularly grisly. The executioner chased after the old
lady and hacked her down as she ran.
Nobles were executed in an enclosed courtyard far from the prying eyes of
the public. Executions of commoners were held on Tower Green (an open area)
and were considered quality entertainment by the common folk. The standard
death sentence for commoners was to be hanged, drawn and quartered (I'll let
one of the less-squeamish AFU'ers describe the process).
The case against Anne Boleyn turned on the testimony of Mark Smeaton, a
musician (and therefore a commoner) in her household. Accused of intimate
relations with the queen, he was offered a noble's death in exchange for
his testimony. Despite the promises he received, I believe he died on
Tower Green as befitted someone of his station.
Barbara "Tudoring the masses" Hamel
--
Barbara Hamel | Trying to get a straight answer to my question,
ag...@freenet.carleton.ca | or even a discussion which doesn't deviate from
Ottawa, Canada | the subject, is about as rewarding as herding
| cats. - Donald Fisk
Bill Duetschler
A > "Cruel and unusual" sounds like something from the US constitution, can
A > anyone help a poor Brit out by completing the clause?
Amendment VIII: 'Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive
fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.'
Bill Duetschler
--
/***********************************************************************
* a.f.u's | bill.du...@royal.com | doesn't that make you |
* official | --this space dedicated to | feel better? the pigs |
* Delawarean. | <your name here>-- | have won tonight -nin |
***********************************************************************/
---
* JABBER v1.2 * Decker's a replicant. Pass it on.
Bill Duetschler
L> In America, at least, this UL stems from the famed "double jeopardy"
L> clause of the Bill of Rights, which states that no suspect can be twice
L> placed in jeopardy of life or limb for the same offense.
L> However, this clause refers to those accused of a crime, not those
L> convicted of one. You can't be /tried/ twice for the same crime
Unless, of course, you are a police officer in Los Angeles.
Bill "Constitution? What Constitution?" Duetschler
--
/***********************************************************************
* a.f.u's | bill.du...@royal.com | doesn't that make you |
* official | --this space dedicated to | feel better? the pigs |
* Delawarean. | <your name here>-- | have won tonight -nin |
***********************************************************************/
---
* JABBER v1.2 * Since GOD spelled backwards is DOG, is my poodle Satan?
Phil Gustafson
>Urban legend of the day: if by some stroke of luck you survive being
>executed, be it electrocution, firing squad, hanging, or whatever, the
>prison must not only take heroic measures to save your life but you cannot
>be 're-executed'.
>
they got to be Yugoslavia, before Yugoslavia broke up and got stupid)
issued a nickel coin bearing the face of a recently-assassinated head
of state. These coins, like the JFK half-dollar sixty years later, had
more symbolic than actual or numismatic worth, and folks started hoarding
them.
Unlike the JFK $.5, the Bosnian nickels were important in commerce: a
nickel was streetcar fare. So the authorities made nickel-hoarding
a capital offense. A streetcar conductor named Lazlo was the first
to be convicted under the new law, and the first scheduled to be
done in in (note two identical words in a row) Bosnia's shiny new
electric chair.
By tradition, Lazlo was granted a last wish. He said:
I have always been a poor man, and I have always been a smoker. I
have always smoked the cheap cigarettes here, but have always wanted
to try a Camel cigarette, which is made of the finest Turkish and
Armenian tobaccos.
So they bought him a pack of Camels, let him smoke them, strapped him
to the chair, said a prayer or two, and turned on the power.
Nothing happened.
So they brought Lazlo back to his cell, tuned up the chair, and gave him
another last wish:
I have always been a poor man, and I have always been a smoker. I
could never afford a decent cigar. How about a box of Partagas,
Churchill shape, maduro wrapper?
This was a little difficult, seeing that Bosnia's relationship with Cuba
was tenuous at best, and nobody had heard of Churchill, but they got him
the cigars.
He smoked them.
They strapped him to the chair, said a prayer or two, and turned on the
power.
Nothing happened.
They brought him back to his cell again, tested the chair once more,
got the bugs out of it, and gave him one more last wish:
I have always been a poor man, and I have always been a smoker. I
have never allowed myself to even dream of the taste of Rattray's Red
Rapparee tobacco in a Dunhill dark shell pipe. That would be a
billiard. Gimme.
Well, they got the pipe, they got the baccy, he smoked his cell into a
stinky expensive Latakian miasma, they strapped him to the chair, said a
prayer or two, and turned on the power.
Nothing happened.
So they let him go home. Why, patient afu'ers who haven't hit 'n'
already, was he still around?
Simple.
He was a poor conductor.
Phil Gustafson
James Nicoll + Jasmine <jdni...@engrg.uwo.ca> wrote:
>
> When the Rosenbergs were executed
>in the 1950s, Julius died pretty quickly, but Ethel had to be electro-
>cuted over and over again to die. Eye-witnesses appeared very revolted
>by the sight of a smoking, twitching woman being fried several times; it
>was pretty unpleasant to watch by all accounts [Possibly worse from Mrs.
>Rosenberg's POV, but I don't know to what extent she was conscious after
>the first zap].
It's not at all clear how many people survived the electric chair, but
were done in at the autopsy.
Make a list of the countries that have capital punishment, and those that
don't, and if you're a USAan, think about your company.
Phil
Jim Grubs, W8GRT
bill.du...@royal.com (Bill Duetschler) writes:
> LUD...@ILLUMINATI.IO.COM writes:
>
> L> In America, at least, this UL stems from the famed "double jeopardy"
> L> clause of the Bill of Rights, which states that no suspect can be twice
> L> placed in jeopardy of life or limb for the same offense.
>
> L> However, this clause refers to those accused of a crime, not those
> L> convicted of one. You can't be /tried/ twice for the same crime
That's true ONLY if you've been acquited. You can be retried
after a hung jury or if an appellate court says there was a
procedural error that worked against the accused. Under some
circumstances you can be retried under similar but lesser
charges.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.5
iQCVAgUBLd6ILzDUWq8RWEeNAQEJfgP9G2IrEFUHSDmdxDp9fOyrCmnOA2VD0UjS
UBEPbRa/R+2ADrLzyURRD2t+RLQxXxd12nvlBsgplGc5cKpACiWMaoyK4hIGR5P/
ZVMF4eP83aFTaEKdP63w1LNcO6YAqIvdBn+8cntQ1Zcfk1klJYf2Noao9xfNqyP9
yRrSVk/jV/A=
=ToCc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jim Grubs, W8GRT Voxbox Enterprises THIS SPACE FOR RENT |
| jgr...@voxbox.norden1.com 6817 Maplewood Ave. RATES REASONABLE |
| Fido: 1:234/1.0 Sylvania, Ohio 43560 Home: 419/882-2697 |
| AMATEUR RADIO - The National Park of the Mind |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
R S Rodgers
>Make a list of the countries that have capital punishment, and those that
>don't, and if you're a USAan, think about your company.
And Gob bless us. If only we'd _apply_ capital punishment instead
of just threatening it and then treating psychopaths to a lifetime
of free eats, television, and a place to live.
--
Visit your local library and request If you know what the rules are,
a form to join Caning Party USA, the then you can break them carefully.
pro-punishment party.
Reply to rsro...@wam.umd.edu
R S Rodgers
Bill Duetschler <bill.du...@royal.com> wrote:
>L> However, this clause refers to those accused of a crime, not those
>L> convicted of one. You can't be /tried/ twice for the same crime
>
>Unless, of course, you are a police officer in Los Angeles.
You mispelled "_white_ police officer."
wolf...@acm.org
>Urban legend of the day: if by some stroke of luck you survive being
>executed, be it electrocution, firing squad, hanging, or whatever, the
>prison must not only take heroic measures to save your life but you cannot
>be 're-executed'.
>
>survives an execution attempt, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to
>try a second time and hence they must be patched up and set free.
When I lived in the UK (North Yorkshire, to be precise, for about three years
in the mid-eighties), I had a British history teacher tell me that a similar
law existed there during the 17th, 18th, and early 19th century. Under this
leg.. er, law, if someone was to be executed, but the procedure failed _THREE_
times, then they had to be set free. Presumably, while once or twice could be
explained as cheap rope, three times was clearly a case of God telling you that
the accused was innocent, or at least not to be executed. I should qualify
this report by telling you that this woman was crazier than Sybil on a pot of
espresso. We enjoyed getting her to take tangents (such as this) because it
was almost certain that noe more work would be done for the rest of that
afternoon's class. Sometimes we wondered if she noticed that we had left when
the bell rang. Halcyon days of youth, except they'd beat the shit out of me
for being a foreigner.
I'm sure there's a great piece of black comedy in imagining the guy on the
gallows after the first two foulups, but I'll leave that to someone else.
Michael P. Wolf
Mark Wojcik
somehow managing to survive an attempted execution just means they have to try
again, as I understand it. For instance, a sentence may (classically) read,
"Hanged by the neck until dead," as opposed to a possible, "Hanged by the neck
until you could reasonably be expected to be dead, but if you somehow make it,
then all bets are off."
It makes you wonder why so many executions are delayed because the intended
executee is in poor health, doesn't it? Maybe it's cruel or unusual to
electrocute someone with a heart condition.
S. Mudgett aka little gator
>Here's the brilliant part: chemical one puts him to sleep, chemical two
>does something, and then chemical three finally stops the heart-beat.
>
>Except the bozos forgot to rinse the tubes with saline solution in
>between the dosages. So the chemicals one and two were a base and
>an acid, the residue reacted in the tube, and the tube clogged with
>the resulting salt. The window-shades through which the execution is
>being watched are shut, they fiddle with the tubes for a few minutes,
>they reopen the shades showing a very purple-looking Gacy, and they
>finally get around to killing him.
>--
i've helped euthanise cats and dogs and the stuff vets use for this
usually causes instant unconsciousness, followed by death(or at
least the heart and breathing stops) within seconds. all with
a single injection. why don't they
use this stuff when killing humans by lethal injection?
--
-- little gator aka s. mudgett email: s...@harvee.billerica.ma.us
-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
Kivi Shapiro
Bill Ecenbarger, of the Philadelphia Enquirer, on their page D3. It
discusses the various methods the US has used to kill people, and the
bit on electrocution starts off like so:
As hangings became more and more gruesome, states searched for a "more
humane" method and eventually turned to the electric chair. The world's
first judicial electrocution was held in New York's Auburn Prison on
Aug. 8, 1890. The victim was a convicted axe murderer named William
Kemmler, who couldn't sleep the night before because workmen were still
sawing and hammering, preparing the death room. They weren't even
finished when he arrived for his execution, so he sat down in one of the
witness chairs and watched them work.
A witness described what happened after the first surge of electricity:
"A purplish foam covered the lips and was spattered over the leather
head band...Warden, physicians, guards...everybody lost their wits.
There was a startled cry for the current to be turned on again...Kemmler
was dead. Part of his brain had been baked hard. Some of the blood in
his head had been turned into charcoal."
"Investigative" Kivi Shapiro
--
jksh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Kivi Shapiro)
"Contrary to Dr. [Prabhakar] Ragde's claim, the Internet has no
resemblance whatsoever to Huxley's soma." -- Jeffrey Shallit
This message is in the public domain.
T. P. Uschanov
>Since there is no law forcing such a commution (or at least the NIU Law
>Library couldn't find one), I think it's safe to say that if the whole
>firing squad misses the first shot, they ARE allowed to reload. :-)
Regarding firing squads: in the only U.S. state, Utah, that uses the
firing squad to execute (this was adopted in 1878, in accordance with
the Mormon doctrine of "blood atonement"), there are indeed five men
on the squad, one of which has a blank in his rifle.
I don't think there has ever been a case of the squad completely missing
the man, but in 1951, at the execution of Eliseo J. Mares, all five men
apparently decided that they did _not_ want to fire the lethal shot, and
chose the right side of Mares's chest as their target. Therefore their
bullets did not hit Mares's heart, and he slowly bled to death instead.
T. P. "Get your execution anecdotes h e r e!" Uschanov
David DeLaney
Mmm, I'd think that, following the reasoning in your first para, they feel
that they *have* to make sure the accused dies by specified-method if they
can; if he croaks of a heart attack they could've prevented by reasonable
precautions, then sentence to hang-by-the-neck-until-dead *hasn't* been carried
out and conceivably someone (this being the USA we're considering) could feel
they had to complain, or even sue, because Justice Was Not Served...
Dave "I apologize in advance for posting from the USA, Land of the Fee, Home
Of The Lawyers, OK?" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney: d...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu; "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. Disclaimer: IMHO; VRbeableFUTPLEX
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd for net.legends FAQ+miniFAQs; ftp: cathouse.org
Beckwith
: Urban legend of the day: if by some stroke of luck you survive being
: executed, be it electrocution, firing squad, hanging, or whatever, the
: prison must not only take heroic measures to save your life but you cannot
: be 're-executed'.
Hmmmm. When I first saw this, I thought "Nope. Sounds familiar but I
don't know anything about that one." Then I saw some of the followups
and remembered something that I saw in the late 60s.
In Connecticut there is an old (early 18th century?) prison called
Newgate Prison. The state owns and manages it now but back in the 60s
it was a private museum and like many private museums was not exactly
a repository of erudition. (For two good examples of that, take a
road trip to Indiana and visit the John Dillinger Museum and the Dan
Quayle Museum.)
Anyway, Newgate had things like manequins dressed up like gangsters or
with red paint (blood). They had one female manequin hanging and a
little story about the first woman hanged in the US (I think they said
her head popped off). I'm pretty sure that one of their tableaus was
a guy whose hanging failed and they had to let him go.
Richard
Christopher Horymski
[crazy teacher of British history background deleted]
>I'm sure there's a great piece of black comedy in imagining the guy on the
>gallows after the first two foulups, but I'll leave that to someone else.
Sounds like the joke concerning the three condemned prisoners of
countries x,y, and z, respectively.
Chris "won't be surprised if OSHA is somehow involved in this" Horymski
Sam Jam
a87...@tiuk.ti.com writes:
>A question back at you: is it true that one of the weapons used to execute
>someone by firing squad is loaded with a blank so that each marksman can
>believe that they didn't fire the lethal shot? Sounds like it could be
>folklore?
I heard that only ONE gun has a REAL bullet, ALL the rest are blank
(or should that be BLANK)
"And all I wanted was a word, a photograph to keep"
Madness, "Michael Caine"
Brian Bringardner
is under constant monitoring to prevent suicide (aka "suicide watch").
God forbid that some criminal should kill himself before the state does.
Brian Bringardner
I believe it is the law, via a US SC decision, that you cannot
execute a criminal who is insane. As a result of this, many death
row prisoners who are insane are put on heavy medication so they can
qualify as sane and be killed.
As I understand it, the deciding factor after conviction is whether the
prisoner is sane at the time the state wants to execute him, not whether he
was sane when he commited the crime, the latter having been already
decided at trial.
Phyllis Gilmore
(Barbara Hamel) wrote:
>
Well, since no one else bit--
According to my no doubt wobbly memory of Antonia Fraser's
biography of Mary Queen of Scotts--
Mary's execution was a bit slap-dash (the folks were
probably afraid Elizabeth I would change her mind). The
executioner's first stroke with the axe resulted in little
more than a nick. The second "mostly" did the job. But
it took a third to completely sever the head from the body.
Some said her lips were still moving after that . . .
(eerie noises fade into the distance.)
Phyllis
Lee Rudolph
>take a
>road trip to Indiana and visit the John Dillinger Museum
What's the point, when the main exhibit is in the Smithsonian?
Lee "despite what snopes may claim" Rudolph
GNP Enterprises
>
>Nobles were executed in an enclosed courtyard far from the prying eyes of
>the public. Executions of commoners were held on Tower Green (an open area)
>and were considered quality entertainment by the common folk. The standard
>death sentence for commoners was to be hanged, drawn and quartered (I'll let
>one of the less-squeamish AFU'ers describe the process).
>
Well maybe just the last two, I think I got the hanged part ok.
kei...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
>>death sentence for commoners was to be hanged, drawn and quartered (I'll let
>>one of the less-squeamish AFU'ers describe the process).
>>
> ok I'll bite. Would someone please describe hanged, drawn and quartered.
> Well maybe just the last two, I think I got the hanged part ok.
Gladly! Drawing and quartering were more commonly used in conjunction
with beheading than with hanging, for logistical reasons. They were
forms of torture employed as part of a death sentence for really nasty
crimes (like not being Catholic). The procedure was: first drawing,
then beheading, then quartering (not much fun any other way).
"Drawing" was disembowellment, wherein the restrained prisonger was
slashed across the stomach and their intestines physically pulled out
and either let hang or thrown on a fire. The prisoner was then
beheaded (or, sometimes also thrown onto the fire, let scream and jump
a bit, and then beheaded). "Quartering" came after, when the body was
cut into 4 pieces (one limb and part of the torso each). The head
often wound up on a stake, the limbs sometimes hung from a tree or a
rack as an object lesson in cultural diversity, and then discarded for
dogs and birds to pick at. There was nothing left to bury, which was
also part of the punishment.
Kevin "have a nice day" T. Keith
Rachel J. Perkins
>In article <2rt62a$s...@char.vnet.net>, gnpe...@char.vnet.net (GNP Enterprises) writes:
>> ok I'll bite. Would someone please describe hanged, drawn and quartered.
>> Well maybe just the last two, I think I got the hanged part ok.
>a bit, and then beheaded). "Quartering" came after, when the body was
>cut into 4 pieces (one limb and part of the torso each). The head
>often wound up on a stake, the limbs sometimes hung from a tree or a
>rack as an object lesson in cultural diversity, and then discarded for
>dogs and birds to pick at. There was nothing left to bury, which was
>also part of the punishment.
i have often heard that the quartering was accomplished by marking the
body with slashes at the separation points, and then attaching each
limb to a different horse and having the horses run in different
directions, thus 'quartering' the body. is this just a creative
embellishment, or is there any truth to it?
rachel "x marks the spot" perkins
--
-just give me what for,
rachel perkins = rper...@astro.as.arizona.edu
"Chastity..the most unnatural of all the sexual perversions...."
-Aldous Huxley
Lawrence Allen
: In article <Cq53I...@freenet.carleton.ca>
If I remember correctly, It is just what it sounds like.
Hung by the feet, slit open, to draw the innards (just like hog butchering)
and then cut into quarters.
It's been a number of years, and I heard it from a teacher of history, who
was known for his embellishments on the written text.
No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB
involves marking the skin with lines, as a teacher of hog butchering
might, then tying each limb securely to a different horse.
When the horses were urged to go their separate ways, there may
have been wagering among the crowd as to which lines will be
close to where the partings actually occur.
A variation has the lines drawn as shallow knife cuts.
Bob "contemplating fifth and sixth horses" O`Bob
--
Paul Tomblin
In our last episode, rper...@astro.as.arizona.edu (Rachel J. Perkins) said:
>
>i have often heard that the quartering was accomplished by marking the
>body with slashes at the separation points, and then attaching each
>limb to a different horse and having the horses run in different
>directions, thus 'quartering' the body. is this just a creative
>embellishment, or is there any truth to it?
Did they use quarter horses for it?
Paul "giddyup" Tomblin
--
Paul Tomblin, Freenet News screwup^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAdministrator
"When longing becomes loVe/When night turns to day/Everything changes/Joy
will find a way." bRuce Cockburn.
Anil Das
According to my grandmother, the King did not want the `sin' of
having ordered an execution on his heavenly balance sheet. So a messenger
used to be send to the jail with a pardon order, timed so that
he will reach there a few minutes after the execution is scheduled
to happen. She said once or twice, when the first attempt at hanging
failed, this led to the freedom of the prisoner.
Anil "I always believed the story, but sort of wondering now" Das
Laurel Weitzel
>In <1994May20.2...@midway.uchicago.edu>, Ted
>Frank writes:
>
>>Here's the brilliant part: chemical one puts him to
>sleep, chemical two does something, and then chemical three
>>finally stops the heart-beat.
>>
>>Except the bozos forgot to rinse the tubes with saline
>solution in between the dosages. So the chemicals one and two
>were a base and an acid, the residue reacted in the tube, and
the tube
>clogged with the resulting salt. The window-shades through
which
>the execution is being watched are shut, they fiddle with the
tubes for
>a few minutes, they reopen the shades showing a very
purple-looking
>Gacy, and they finally get around to killing him.
I'm sorry, but I can not find any compassion for this man. If
he
suffered only a LITTLE bit it wasn't enough. These rumors I
have
been hearing about a lawsuit over cruel & unusual punishment
are
making me ill! What about the cruel & unusual torture HE
inflicted
on people?
I think this country would be a much better place if we
used "eye for an eye" punishments. I am NOT talkin about
dismantling the
judicial system - I am talking about PUNISHiNG people for their
crimes.
Right now - the inmates at Rikers Island are having better
dinners than
a lot of people on the street. They have color TV, college
educations and last year the women's section had their own fur
show. Where is the punishment in this?
(donning flame retardant armor!)
Laurie ** I was put on this earth to
(bel...@pipeline.com) accomplish a certain
(Belle Bo...@AOL.com) number of things. Right now,
I am so far behind - I will
most certainly live
forever! ** - Calvin
In Exile Far From Home
: In article <2rt62a$s...@char.vnet.net>, gnpe...@char.vnet.net (GNP Enterprises) writes:
: "Drawing" was disembowellment, wherein the restrained prisonger was
: slashed across the stomach and their intestines physically pulled out
: and either let hang or thrown on a fire. The prisoner was then
: beheaded (or, sometimes also thrown onto the fire, let scream and jump
: a bit, and then beheaded). "Quartering" came after, when the body was
: cut into 4 pieces (one limb and part of the torso each). The head
: often wound up on a stake, the limbs sometimes hung from a tree or a
: rack as an object lesson in cultural diversity, and then discarded for
: dogs and birds to pick at. There was nothing left to bury, which was
: also part of the punishment.
A madman by the name of Friar Damien (a mad monk, beginning to sound
like _The Princess Bride_) tried to kill King Louis XIV of France
once. He was caught and convicted of high treason or unfilial behaviour
I forget which. Anyway he had a slight variation on this which involved
more torture before the disemboweling (he only made one cry when they
applied the hot irons to his nipplies. Works for me everytime) followed
by being puuled apart by horses. Anyway this was the first time they
had done this for awhile and they had obviously lost the knack. First
the horses were too weak and had to be replaced by four stronger ones
and then even the stronger ones couldn't do it so the executioner had
to give them a hand with his knife (applying it to Damien not the horses)
Anyway they ended up doing it however there were two famous English society
ladies in the audience (all publically done of course not like these weak
modern times) and an Englishman by the name of Selwyn Lloyd. He reported
the two ladies made a fussy over the cruelty of the torture claiming noone
ought to flog horses that hard. This was later recycled in Disraeli's
famous novel "Black Mischief" in a slightly different form.
Joseph "Will eat boots for Food" Askew
--
> <
The Sound of One .Sig Clapping
Mary Shafer
The criminal was hanged until _nearly_ dead (suffocation, not a broken
neck). Then he or she was removed from the gallows and gutted (the
term "drawn" is still used in this sense today, by the way). Then the
person (or body, depending on how fast they worked) was cut into four
pieces. Sometimes they pulled the body into four pieces using horses.
The head was usually removed and put on public display. Sometimes
they sent the quarters of the body on the road as a reminder to the
populace to not get any ideas.
It seems to me that hanging, drawing, and quartering was reserved for
major crimes like treason, not just ordinary crimes like stealing and
poaching. I missed the first posting excerpted here--it probably says
just that.
--
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR sha...@ursa-major.spdcc.com
Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end....
Brian Leibowitz
>GNP Enterprises (gnpe...@char.vnet.net) wrote:
...>
>If I remember correctly, It is just what it sounds like.
>Hung by the feet, slit open, to draw the innards (just like hog butchering)
>and then cut into quarters.
>
According to my big dic (OED) drawn is disembowling and quartering
is cutting into four pieces (a. anything in general b. the body of
a person _esp_ a traitor or criminal). The method is not implied in
the term quartering.
Brian "will not do person research on the subject." Leibowitz
Rick Davis
> ok I'll bite. Would someone please describe hanged, drawn and quartered.
> Well maybe just the last two, I think I got the hanged part ok.
Drawing and Quartering: Pre-1283, Europe and Asia.
2 ways: #1) Arms and legs tied by ropes to horses that are
struck with whips so they gallop away in 4 directions. Then
victim is decapitated.
#2) Dragged along by horse from jail to execution
site. Then had to endure disenbowelment ("drawing") of his
intestines, which were tossed into a fire. Then for theatrics
the corpse was cut into quarters ("quartering")
Hope this helps! Have a fine dinner tonight ...
--
Rick Davis Augusta County Library, VA
rda...@leo.vsla.edu Technical Services
* I speak for no one and no one speaks for me*
Nick Scott-Samuel
gnpe...@char.vnet.net (GNP Enterprises) writes:
> ok I'll bite. Would someone please describe hanged, drawn and quartered.
> Well maybe just the last two, I think I got the hanged part ok.
Hanged by the neck until not quite dead.
Drawn by horse through the streets, so that everyone gets a good look
at you.
Quartered into four pieces (you die about here).
Nick
Robert
your intestines pulled out. Since the whole procedure takes place on a
scaffold with a large crowd around, there's no need for further parading.
HDQ was not, I think, an everyday occurance during the middle ages - it was
reserved for traitors and other particularly nasty criminals. Everyday
thieves etc. would merely be hanged.
By the way, I've heard that being burnt at the stake was generally a fairly
painless way to die, because you would become unconscious through smoke
inhalation within minutes.
Which reminds me:
Q) What's this difference between Noah's Ark and Joan of Arc?
A) One was made of wood and the other was Maid of Orleans.
- Robert "I'll take the firing squad, please" Alcock
--
Bicycle - a device for measuring the slope of hills <ie...@warwick.ac.uk>
Helge Moulding
: gnpenter, who asks,
: > [...] Would someone please describe hanged, drawn and quartered.
: [Rick explains...]
Actually, I remember a story where some strongman had harnesses
fastened to his arms, and kept a couple of cars from driving off.
Wheels spinning, etc... I think the point at the time was that
cars don't have as much traction as horses, although I think that
a more important point is that the cars never got up any speed in
the first place.
Harnessing horses to an evacuated pair of hemispheres was, incidentally,
how some German joker illustrated airpressure to the plebes. I've seen
woodcuts that put teams of eight horses on each side...
Before the thread mutates entirely, here's a prisoner survival
puzzle. I'd post it on rec.puzzles, except I suspect it's an old
chestnut over there.
A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
50 black marbles. Tomorrow I'll return. I'll choose one box
at random, and then choose one marble at random. If the marble
is white, you are spared.
"You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
What does the prisoner do?
--
Helge "I thought it was way too obvious" Moulding
(Just another guy with a new .sig)
_______________________________________________ ___________________________
"Do you think if we talk about my name enough || Annoying Joel Furr is not
I can get into the FAQ?" -- Maddie Boudreaux || a hobby, it's a duty!
----------------------------------------------- ---------------------------
Richard N Kitchen
Would somebody explain to me why the label of a pair of Levi's jeans
show a pair of Levi's apparently being quartered?
Rick "What crime did they commit?" Kitchen
--
Rick Kitchen da...@cleveland.freenet.edu
"Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
--Terry Pratchett, "Small Gods"
Marc Reeve
Nick Scott-Samuel <N.E.Scot...@aston.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <2rt62a$s...@char.vnet.net>
>gnpe...@char.vnet.net (GNP Enterprises) writes:
>
>> ok I'll bite. Would someone please describe hanged, drawn and quartered.
>> Well maybe just the last two, I think I got the hanged part ok.
>
>Hanged by the neck until not quite dead.
>Drawn by horse through the streets, so that everyone gets a good look
>at you.
Being "drawn" is having an incision made in your belly, and your
intestines drawn out, usually into some sort of winch-like gadget.
This doesn't (usually) kill a bloke, but I would imagine it hurts
like nobody's business.
>Quartered into four pieces (you die about here).
>
>
>Nick
Marc "will not draw intestines for food" Reeve
--
... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ...
Marc Reeve cmr...@deeptht.armory.com | @gorn.iuma.com
Does anyone else think Kibo must look like Laszlo from "Real Genius"?
Coming Soon: Iguana Dating Service!
bill nelson
:
: Before the thread mutates entirely, here's a prisoner survival
: puzzle. I'd post it on rec.puzzles, except I suspect it's an old
: chestnut over there.
:
: A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
: identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
: 50 black marbles. Tomorrow I'll return. I'll choose one box
: at random, and then choose one marble at random. If the marble
: is white, you are spared.
:
: "You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
: all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
:
: What does the prisoner do?
Nothing. Any moving of marbles reduces his chances from the 50% he
has if he leaves the boxes untouched.
This is an example of combinational (or conditional, I forget which)
probability.
Bill
bill nelson
:
: Would somebody explain to me why the label of a pair of Levi's jeans
: show a pair of Levi's apparently being quartered?
It was to show that the jeans could stand such stress without being
damaged.
Kim Scheinberg
I'm being trolled. I just know it. They know I don't know math...
Okay. Put one white marble in one box. All the other marbles in the other
box. From the random box selection, 50% of the time, the prisoner is
spared immediately.
If the warden picks the other box, the prison gets away 49.5% of the time.
Seems like this solution gives him just under a 75% chance of survival.
So go ahead... tell me where I got hooked... *sigh*
kim "next number in this sequence: 4, 14, 23, 34, 42" scheinberg
Lee Rudolph
>Would somebody explain to me why the label of a pair of Levi's jeans
>show a pair of Levi's apparently being quartered?
>Rick "What crime did they commit?" Kitchen
Draft-dodging. Or else their owner was really mad at them.
Lee "defend the Third Amendment" Rudolph
cask...@ix.wcc.govt.nz
>Gladly! Drawing and quartering were more commonly used in conjunction
>with beheading than with hanging, for logistical reasons. They were
>forms of torture employed as part of a death sentence for really nasty
>crimes (like not being Catholic). The procedure was: first drawing,
>then beheading, then quartering (not much fun any other way).
Or being, as the case might be. Got a bit of a bee in your bonnet, Kevin?
Steve "like, uh, the death penalty was abolished by Henry VIII?" Caskey
--
Steve Caskey: cask...@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (one month stay of execution)
Disclaimer: If anyone cared what I thought, I'd be rich and famous.
"You cannot hope to bribe or twist/Thank God! The British journalist/
But seeing what/That man will do/Unbribed, there is no reason to." [ViRo]
FloydPhi
<someone please explain drawn and quartered>
Well ok. Much like it sounds. They would simply tie each arm
and each leg to the saddle horn of a different horse, Then move
the horses so as to pull the ropes tight leaving the victim hanging
in mid-air. For the coup-de-grace one simply spanks all four horses
and sends them on their way. (Of course if you were hanged first
you probably would not get the full benefit of this marvelous form
of curing recidivism ---)
Mark Wojcik
>: "You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
>: all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
>:
>: What does the prisoner do?
>
>Nothing. Any moving of marbles reduces his chances from the 50% he
>has if he leaves the boxes untouched.
>
>This is an example of combinational (or conditional, I forget which)
>probability.
Sorry, Bill, but in this case there is a good strategy for the prisoner. I
won't give away the answer here, but let me just say that the optimal strategy
gives the prisoner an almost 75% chance of having the correct color marble
drawn from the boxes.
I have heard this one in several different forms; I think my favorite is the
"King Solomon" version, which I think Martin Gardner, among other people, has
used. Anyone who really wants to hear my solution can email me.
Tom Swiss
>A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
>identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
>50 black marbles. Tomorrow I'll return. I'll choose one box
>at random, and then choose one marble at random. If the marble
>is white, you are spared.
>
>"You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
>all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
>
>What does the prisoner do?
Starts looking _REALLY_ hard for some White-Out?
===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/t...@tis.com | "Born to die." | Keep your laws off my brain!
"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe
Free people keep and bear arms to defend freedom by any means necessary.
"If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure."
-- Former Vice President Dan Quayle, to the Phoenix
Republican Forum, March 1990
Malinda McCall
: >A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
: >identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
: >50 black marbles. Tomorrow I'll return. I'll choose one box
: >at random, and then choose one marble at random. If the marble
: >is white, you are spared.
: >"You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
: >all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
: >
: >What does the prisoner do?
He probaly just rearranges all of the black marbles under a false
bottom somehow. They are in there, but would not be chosen.
So he'd have 25 black marbles under a false bottom and 25 white
marbles loose and within reach in each box.
Sorry for any spelling/format errors: my machine is duplexxing
wildly and I see alphabet soup on the screen.
Sigh.
: ===============================================================================
Mike Andrews
Phyllis...@rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) writes:
>According to my no doubt wobbly memory of Antonia Fraser's
>biography of Mary Queen of Scotts--
>
>Mary's execution was a bit slap-dash (the folks were
>probably afraid Elizabeth I would change her mind). The
>executioner's first stroke with the axe resulted in little
>more than a nick. The second "mostly" did the job. But
>it took a third to completely sever the head from the body.
>
>Some said her lips were still moving after that . . .
>
>(eerie noises fade into the distance.)
>
>Phyllis
Hello, Phyllis. One meets friends in the _oddest_ places.
In _Crucibles: The Story of Chemistry_, the story is related that
after Antoine Lavoisier's servant was beheaded on Dr. Guillotin's
handy new slicer, Lavoisier picked up the head and asked him to
blink if he understood. The head is reported to have blinked.
Talk about scientific detatchment!
Lavoisier later was given the opportunity to be the _subject_,
rather than the experimenter, but no reports are extant of the
experiment.
--
Mike Andrews
uds...@ibm.okladot.state.ok.us (192.149.244.2)
Ted Frank
>A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
>identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
>50 black marbles. Tomorrow I'll return. I'll choose one box
>at random, and then choose one marble at random. If the marble
>is white, you are spared.
>
>"You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
>all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
>
>What does the prisoner do?
Recognizing that stomach acid dissolves black dye, he swallows
the fifty black marbles, and eats a lot of Ex-Lax to excrete the
resulting white marbles (once washed) in time for the King to
select from the 100 marbles.
--
ted frank "Nothing in this analysis turns on the nutritional value
the law skool of a Monterey Ranch Chicken Sandwich."
the u of c
kibo#=0.5 -- 61 U.Chi.L.Rev. 650 n.45 (1994)
Nyani-Iisha Martin
: In article <1994May24.130809.10169@guvax>, kei...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
: >forms of torture employed as part of a death sentence for really nasty
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Or being, as the case might be. Got a bit of a bee in your bonnet, Kevin?
Well, not necessarily. It's hard to encompass all of Medieval European
religious history in one post. I definetely don't think that Kevin is
being anti-Catholic here.
Ny "Defender of the Faith" Martin
DaveHatunen
Richard N Kitchen <da...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>
>Would somebody explain to me why the label of a pair of Levi's jeans
>show a pair of Levi's apparently being quartered?
Levi Strauss invented Levis, especially the rivets, for gold rush
miners here in California. He promoted them by claiming strength and
durability, hence the logo with the horses.
Dave "The San Francisco Treat" Hatunen
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California: *
* where San Francisco meets The Peninsula *
* and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea *
*******************************************************
linda dunlap
Ted Frank <th...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>In article <smthsen-19...@oc24.bc.edu> smt...@bcvms.bc.edu
(Sean Smith) writes:
>>EXECUTION STORY #2
>>This one is closer to the UL genre, 'cause I heard it from a grade school
>>buddy of mine. As he had heard it, this guy actually survived the electric
>>chair, although he was horribly burned and mutilated. The authorities took
>>him out of the chair and were making arrangements to let him go, but then
>>the guy happened to catch sight of himself in a mirror (or perhaps the
>>reflecting glass where the witnesses sit behind) and was so horrified he
>>died of a heart attack.
>
>People do survive the electric chair not infrequently, though the standard
>procedure is to reapply the electricity quickly before anyone notices.
>
>The Texas Law Review published a Comment on this in the last year or two.
>--
>ted frank "Why do people hate Zima so much when it doesn't taste worse
>the law skool than any other form of vinegar?"
>the u of c
>kibo#=0.5 -- James Parry
Just finished a book by Clifford Irving (can't recall the title) that was
fiction but had a note in the front that the description of an execution was
based on a real one.
It happened in Florida. Just before the electrocution someone noticed that
the sponge that was soaked in water and then placed between the electrodes and
the skin was "dirty" and decided that it was only humane to purchase a new
one. They went to the local Circle K convenience store and purchased new
sponges.
When it was time for the execution, the first application of electricity
caused fire to shoot out from under the hood and black gook started dripping
down. The prisoner started screaming and screaming. The electricity was
stopped. Things were checked and they tried again. Same thing. It took
20 minutes of trying, adjusting, screaming, etc. before he was finally
pronounced dead.
What happened was that the old sponge was a natural sponge. The new one
was not. Instead of conducting the electricity properly, it melted and
caught fire.
Also, have you read about the prisoner in Washington State or Oregon
who has filed some sort of suit stating that the state can't hang him
because he is afraid his head will fall off? He weighs 400 pounds. What
I don't understand is that he has his choice of that or injection. He
rejected injection on some other grounds and how says they can't execute
him at all.
Steve Cassidy
Wasn't this supposed to be an early (as in California Gold Rush) demo of
the durability of the brand? Levi himself was a Gold Rush prospector who
couldn't find any gold and who decided to make some damn tight trousers
instead...
kei...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
> Also, have you read about the prisoner in Washington State or Oregon
> who has filed some sort of suit stating that the state can't hang him
> because he is afraid his head will fall off? He weighs 400 pounds. What
> I don't understand is that he has his choice of that or injection. He
> rejected injection on some other grounds and how says they can't execute
> him at all.
What's not to understand? He's trying to get out of it. It's like
one of those logic games: "You are to be executed but can choose your
own method. How do you want to die?" "Of old age." He thinks they
gave him the right to choose which method they had to use, and now
claims they can't use that method (the old "my head will fall off"
trick - we've seen it a million times!); since they can only use one
method and now can't even use the one method he chose, he should go
free. He's going to find out that the authorities in real life are
less impressed with cutesy QEDs than they are in the logic puzzles.
They will argue either that his choice is valid only when there is a
real option to choose from (and thus he will have to take lethal
injection), or that he doesn't have a right not to have his head fall
off (in which case they'll string him up unless he changes his mind).
As stupid clemency tricks go, it's not nearly as bad as the fat guy
who tried to eat himself so large he wouldn't fit in the electric
chair (didn't work).
It is useful to note here the way the choice of execution method is
sometimes presented. Usually there is a presumptive method with a
procedure whereby the prisoner may request another method (Maryland
had this procedure in place for its recent John Thanos sendoff).
Thus, the prisoner doesn't really get a choice - they get one method
right off the bat, but can choose a different one if they like. This
prevents prisoners from stalling their own executions by refusing to
choose; if they refuse they just get the default whacking. In the
above case, the prisoner probably doesn't really get to rule out one
of the methods, he just gets to indicate whether he'd prefer being
hanged to being injected; if hanging is not preferrable to him due to
squeamishness over his head falling off, or not legal for that reason
(unlikely), then he'll have to settle for injection.
Kevin "nice try" T. Keith
bill nelson
:
: Also, have you read about the prisoner in Washington State or Oregon
: who has filed some sort of suit stating that the state can't hang him
: because he is afraid his head will fall off? He weighs 400 pounds. What
: I don't understand is that he has his choice of that or injection. He
: rejected injection on some other grounds and how says they can't execute
: him at all.
T'isn't Oregon. I don't recall if capital punishment is currently legal
here (it seems to change every 10 years or so) but, if so, then it would
be by lethal injections - not hanging.
I suspect that the court might give a prisoner a choice of execution method,
but it is unlikely. By that time, the prisoner's personal wishes and rights
are pretty much nonexistant.
Bill
Thomas O'Donnell
>In article <2rt62a$s...@char.vnet.net>, gnpe...@char.vnet.net (GNP Enterprises) writes:
>
>>>one of the less-squeamish AFU'ers describe the process).
>>>
>> Well maybe just the last two, I think I got the hanged part ok.
>
>with beheading than with hanging, for logistical reasons. They were
>crimes (like not being Catholic). The procedure was: first drawing,
>
>slashed across the stomach and their intestines physically pulled out
>and either let hang or thrown on a fire. The prisoner was then
>beheaded (or, sometimes also thrown onto the fire, let scream and jump
>a bit, and then beheaded). "Quartering" came after, when the body was
>cut into 4 pieces (one limb and part of the torso each). The head
>often wound up on a stake, the limbs sometimes hung from a tree or a
>rack as an object lesson in cultural diversity, and then discarded for
>dogs and birds to pick at. There was nothing left to bury, which was
>also part of the punishment.
>
>Kevin "have a nice day" T. Keith
Check out Michel Foucault's book(s) on the history of punishment and incarceration.
I'm pretty sure they've been translated into English; sorry, don't recall the
title in either language. Foucault gives several gory descriptions and then asserts
that at the time d&q was popular, the perp's _body_ (as distinct from the perp, per
se), was to be punished, even after death had occurred.
---
=======================================================================
Tom O'Donnell
Peter Trei
>Before the thread mutates entirely, here's a prisoner survival
>puzzle. I'd post it on rec.puzzles, except I suspect it's an old
>chestnut over there.
>A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
>identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
>50 black marbles. Tomorrow I'll return. I'll choose one box
>at random, and then choose one marble at random. If the marble
>is white, you are spared.
>
>"You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
>all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
>
>What does the prisoner do?
I'm coming into this thread late, so I may be repeating the obvious...
Assuming that tricks such as false bottoms and recoloring the marbles
are out, he can still raise his survival chances to nearly 75%. He
puts all of the marbles in one box, then moves one white one to the
empty one.
50% of the time, the warden will pick the box with the one white
marble. The other 50% of the time, he will pick the other box.
However, nearly half of the time the marble he pulls out of that one
will still be white. Thus, he has a 1/2 * (1 + 49/99) chance of
surviving.
Peter
More likely, he calls his lawyer and asks for a clemency on the
grounds that the warden's offer constitutes cruel and unusual mental
punishment.
Phil Gustafson
The label was designed when Mr. Strauss' company produced tack as well as
trou. His denim-and-rivet harnesses were cheap and effective, but the
rivet in the ventral strap overheated when the horse stood too close
to the fire.
For people pants, this was one mistake, but for dobbin dress it was
two. He stuck with the job he was less bad at.
Phil "Sort of the Peter Principle" Gustafson
Rick Davis
> "You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
> all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
>
> What does the prisoner do?
Pull out the Magic Marker (tm) and start coloring?
But seriously, don't keep me hanging!
--
Rick Davis Augusta County Library, VA
rda...@leo.vsla.edu Technical Services
* I speak for no one and no one speaks for me*
Terry Chan
-:
-: Before the thread mutates entirely, here's a prisoner survival
-: puzzle. I'd post it on rec.puzzles, except I suspect it's an old
-: chestnut over there.
-:
-: A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
-: identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
-: 50 black marbles. [...]
Man, it's a tough day when puzzlahs that appeared on NPR's
"Car Talk" from a couple of years ago start showing up on AFU.
Terry "Anyone hear that one about Monty Hall..." Chan
--
Energy and Environment Division | Mail: twc...@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory | No matter how thin you slice it
Berkeley, California USA 94720 | it's still baloney. -- BB
Harry Teasley III
: What happened was that the old sponge was a natural sponge. The new one
: was not. Instead of conducting the electricity properly, it melted and
: caught fire.
Missed the beginning of this, so forgive any repetition, but as I recall,
Ethyl Rosenberg took three or four jolts to finally kill her. I believe
a scene in Atomic Cafe is a reporting of the execution, although I cannot
remember.
Harry ">BZZZZZZZZZZT<!" Teasley
David Lesher
>: What happened was that the old sponge was a natural sponge. The new one
>: was not. Instead of conducting the electricity properly, it melted and
>: caught fire.
I believe this took place in Florida, a state that seems to
delight in executing folks, in or about the last 80's.
IEEE Spectrum had a story on an electric chair expert about that
time, too.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close...........(v)301 56 LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close)....kibo# 777............pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead..............vr....................20915-1433
Ted Frank
>T'isn't Oregon. I don't recall if capital punishment is currently legal
>here (it seems to change every 10 years or so) but, if so, then it would
>be by lethal injections - not hanging.
Washington, Montana, and New Hampshire are the only states that have hanging,
and all allow the option of lethal injection. Only one hanging has happened
since the reinstitution of the death penalty in 1976.
>I suspect that the court might give a prisoner a choice of execution method,
>but it is unlikely. By that time, the prisoner's personal wishes and rights
>are pretty much nonexistant.
In addition to the three states above, Idaho and Utah condemned are given
a choice between the needle and the firing squad, Missouri, Mississippi,
and Colorado folk are given a choice between the needle and the gas chamber,
and Arkansans may choose between lethal injection and the electric chair.
ObUL: An anti-death-penalty book, _Death Work_, is recommended by the
federal agency, the National Institute of Corrections, for use by
states in preparing for executions.
ObUL: Zippers on prisoners about to be executed by the chair are replaced
by Velcro.
--
ted frank "Nothing in this analysis turns on the nutritional value
the law skool of a Monterey Ranch Chicken Sandwich."
the u of c
Brian Leibowitz
>
>Missed the beginning of this, so forgive any repetition, but as I recall,
>Ethyl Rosenberg took three or four jolts to finally kill her. I believe
>a scene in Atomic Cafe is a reporting of the execution, although I cannot
>remember.
I just watched Atomic Cafe last night - the reporter talks about how
they had already unhooked the straps and electrodes when the doctor
indicated that her heart was still beating. They had to
hook her up again and redo it. The reporter indicates that the second time
it was successful.
Brian
Luke David Welling
>A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
>identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
>50 black marbles. Tomorrow I'll return. I'll choose one box
>at random, and then choose one marble at random. If the marble
>is white, you are spared.
>"You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
>all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
>What does the prisoner do?
Just one question, does 'the prisoner' have any white paint?
--
Luke Welling Melbourne, Australia
s92...@yallara.cs.rmit.oz.au
"Remember, society is to blame" - Andrew Denton
Steven Thornton
> Washington, Montana, and New Hampshire are the only states that have hanging,
> and all allow the option of lethal injection. Only one hanging has happened
> since the reinstitution of the death penalty in 1976.
This was true until a couple of days ago. Wesley Dodd was hanged in 1993, and
Charles Campbell got it on Friday.
--
__________________________________________________________________________
Steve Thornton ste...@eskimo.com Seattle, Washington
Paul Stoufflet
> : A condemned man has a visit from the warden. "Here are two
> : identical boxes. One box contains 50 white marbles, the other
> : 50 black marbles. Tomorrow I'll return. I'll choose one box
> : at random, and then choose one marble at random. If the marble
> : is white, you are spared.
> : "You may rearrange the marbles in the boxes in any manner, but
> : all 100 marbles must remain in the boxes."
> :
> : What does the prisoner do?
> Nothing. Any moving of marbles reduces his chances from the 50% he
> has if he leaves the boxes untouched.
On the other hand, I would empty all of the marbles into one box, then
place one of the white marbles in the empty box. I believe that would
increase my chances of avoiding execution to close to 75%.
--
Paul Stoufflet
Decision Systems Group
Brigham and Women's Hospital
75 Francis Street
Boston, MA 02115
internet: psto...@dsg.harvard.edu
work: (617) 732-7746
T. P. Uschanov
one of mine:
> Odd that, because contrary to popular opinion, virtually all people
>have their hearts on the right side of the chest (although it's near the
>middle).
It of course depends on from which direction we look at it, front or back.
The side on which the heart slightly is is referred to as the left side here.
I don't know about Australia or the US.
Stefan Alexei Lasiewski
The Scarlet Manuka <sa...@maths.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
> Odd that, because contrary to popular opinion, virtually all people
>have their hearts on the right side of the chest (although it's near the
>middle).
So, is that why I can see and feel my heart beating on the left half of my
chest???
Soren F Ragsdale
> In article <2rkklh$p...@freenet.hut.fi>, dad...@freenet.hut.fi (T. P.
> Uschanov) wrote:
> > I don't think there has ever been a case of the squad completely missing
> > the man, but in 1951, at the execution of Eliseo J. Mares, all five men
> > apparently decided that they did _not_ want to fire the lethal shot, and
> > chose the right side of Mares's chest as their target. Therefore their
> > bullets did not hit Mares's heart, and he slowly bled to death instead.
> Odd that, because contrary to popular opinion, virtually all people
> have their hearts on the right side of the chest (although it's near the
> middle).
In this kind of executions, only one gun has the bullet. The rest have
blanks, so the executioners never know which one is the "real" gun.
Something about helping their consciences.
Gregory Barton
: middle).
just wanted to point out that the heart is on the left if you're talking
about yourself...but on the right if you're pointing at someone else..
is this why there seems to be some confusion over this point? It's
surely not a downunder thing.
greg'beating from the left' barton.
T. P. Uschanov
(firing squad & heart stuff deleted)
>In this kind of executions, only one gun has the bullet. The rest have
>blanks, so the executioners never know which one is the "real" gun.
>Something about helping their consciences.
NO!!! In fact this whole thread started from my explaining that the squad
of five men has four bullets and one blank, not the other way around. Remember?
Erik Nathan Swartz
Your heart is pretty much smack dab in the middle of your chest. The
reason you can feel it beating on the left side is that the left
ventricle pumps blood throughout your whole body, while the right
ventricle pumps deoxygenated blood to your lungs. Thus, the left
ventricle has a much greater blood pressure which is why people believe
theat their hearts are on the left-hand side.
And goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
Helge Moulding
: [...] this whole thread started from my explaining that the squad
: of five men has four bullets and one blank [...]
Gary Gilmore's brother has written memoires about his family, so the
whole sordid story hit last Sunday's paper here in SLC. One point that
was made was that the squad of five produced *five* bullets which hit
Gilmore's heart... No blanks there, I'd say.
Unless the reporter never heard of the bit about the blank...
--
Helge "What we need is more uniform
distribution of these myths" Moulding
David Farmer
grab an electric fence, then you should use your right hand. The reason
given was that if you used the left hand the electricity would go directly
to your heart. It was also suggested that you hold a blade of grass and
touch the grass to the fence. Presumably this would sheild you in some way.
I know I touched an electric fence once, but I can't recall which hand I
used and I don't recall if I used a blade of grass.
How dangerous is an electric fence?
If one wanted to touch an electric fence, what is the best method to use?
Dave
Micromine
: When I was in elementary school it was widely reported that if you want to
: grab an electric fence, then you should use your right hand. The reason
: given was that if you used the left hand the electricity would go directly
: to your heart. It was also suggested that you hold a blade of grass and
: touch the grass to the fence. Presumably this would sheild you in some way.
: I know I touched an electric fence once, but I can't recall which hand I
: used and I don't recall if I used a blade of grass.
: How dangerous is an electric fence?
Not very dangerous.... Unless you have a pacemaker or weak heart...
Most will just give you a nasty jolt that will make you think twice
before doing it again.
Pissing on an electric fence IS NOT RECOMMENDED !
: If one wanted to touch an electric fence, what is the best method to use?
Well, a damp blade of grass, touched to the fence with your right arm
should do the trick... The grass acts as a resister and cuts the amount
of voltage and current getting to you... I've touched one with my bare
hand before and just suffered a good jolt.
Of course you could find a security electric fence... Very rare and I
think illegal... They will fry you. The normal ones used by farmers etc
are not lethal unless you strangle in the wire..... :)
Simon.
Len Berlind
>why people believe theat their hearts are on the left-hand side.
Not me. I believe it because everyone says so.
William VanHorne
alt.suicide.holiday? Anyway, touch it with the back of either hand. Do
*not* touch with palm of either hand.
---Bill "I'll let sci.med tell you why" VanHorne
Magpie
>grab an electric fence, then you should use your right hand. The reason
>given was that if you used the left hand the electricity would go directly
>to your heart. It was also suggested that you hold a blade of grass and
>touch the grass to the fence. Presumably this would sheild you in some way.
>I know I touched an electric fence once, but I can't recall which hand I
>used and I don't recall if I used a blade of grass.
>
>How dangerous is an electric fence?
Depends on the type, but never fataly so.
>If one wanted to touch an electric fence, what is the best method to use?
I once urinated on one by accident. I don't recommend that method in the
slightest.
Carl "Will electrocute penis for food?" Bradbury.
Ed Clarke
> touch the grass to the fence. Presumably this would sheild you in some way.
> I know I touched an electric fence once, but I can't recall which hand I
> used and I don't recall if I used a blade of grass.
> How dangerous is an electric fence?
I have an electric fence around my garden. These things can give you
a painful shock but are not dangerous. The one that I have is solar
powered (charges a gel-cel) and works similarly to a photo flash. You
can hear the thing charging, then there's a short pulse of electricity
to the fence. Mine will toss a spark about 1/4 inch on a good day. No
danger of not being able to let go since the fence is usually off and
only pulses once every second or so.
The blade of grass trick is useful to see if there really is a charge on
the fence. There's enough resistance in it to mitigate the shock to a
minor tingle. Touch the fence with the blade of grass, and when it pulses
you will feel a slight tingle, depending upon how long the blade of grass
is and how masochistic you feel ... 8-)