Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
Laura Faussone
Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
Jun 10, 2:30 pm ET
TOKYO (Reuters) - The pajama-clad skeleton of a Japanese man has been
found in a vacant apartment building -- 20 years after his lonely death.
The skeleton was discovered lying atop musty "futon" bedding earlier
this month when workers getting ready to raze the derelict building
entered the second floor unit where the man had lived, domestic media
reports said on Thursday.
A newspaper dated February 20, 1984, was on the kitchen table.
Police believe the man, an employee of the construction firm that built
the apartments in 1973, moved in after the building was vacated when the
firm managing it went bankrupt, the reports said.
The man, then 57 and divorced with children, suddenly stopped coming in
to work two decades ago but none of his relatives ever asked police to
search for him.
"I had no idea that the apartment even existed," the Yomiuri Shimbun
newspaper quoted a 65-year-old neighbor as saying.
"After I heard the news, I thought 'Oh, it's here.' It's as if time had
stopped in this one place."
netOBSESSIVE
> Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
Tokyo must do something different with their apartments than they do
here. When I lived in an Apt. I could smell everything they cooked, when
they lit a joint, when they lit incense. I am VERY sure I could have
detected a dead body.
Also I don't think my landlord would have waited 20 years for the
rent...
--
Ok this really happened to a friend of my cousin's husband best friend's
barber.
Richard Fitzpatrick
> Laura Faussone wrote:
> >
> > Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
>
> That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
I'd rather leave this plane the way I entered it.
Naked, yelling for attention and covered in (someone else's) blood.
--
Richard F.
"...if you keep my mouth sufficiently full, I can't offer any
lines of argument" - Deborah Stevenson gives sound debating
advice in a.f.u.
Marianne Ono
>Laura Faussone wrote:
>
>>Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
>>
>>
>That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
>Tokyo must do something different with their apartments than they do
>here. When I lived in an Apt. I could smell everything they cooked, when
>they lit a joint, when they lit incense. I am VERY sure I could have
>detected a dead body.
>
> Also I don't think my landlord would have waited 20 years for the
>rent...
>
>
"In tones drenched with pity, people say of someone, 'He died alone.' I
have never understood this point of view. Who wants to have to die and
be polite at the same time?"
Quentin Crisp
Marianne
R H Draney
>
>netOBSESSIVE wrote...
>> Laura Faussone wrote:
>> >
>> > Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
>>
>> That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
>
>I'd rather leave this plane the way I entered it.
>
>Naked, yelling for attention and covered in (someone else's) blood.
Ahem....
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Xns923F686591651dadoctah%40216.148.53.81
....r
John Francis
Richard Fitzpatrick <fit...@webone.NO.com.SPAM.au> wrote:
>netOBSESSIVE wrote...
>> Laura Faussone wrote:
>> >
>> > Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
>>
>> That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
>
>I'd rather leave this plane the way I entered it.
>
>Naked, yelling for attention and covered in (someone else's) blood.
... not to mention in bed with a woman who isn't your wife.
--
Hello. My name is Darth Vader. I am your Father. Prepare to die.
R H Draney
>
>"In tones drenched with pity, people say of someone, 'He died alone.' I
>have never understood this point of view. Who wants to have to die and
>be polite at the same time?"
>Quentin Crisp
There's much to recommend taking someone with you....r
TCS
>netOBSESSIVE wrote...
>> Laura Faussone wrote:
>> >
>> > Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
>>
>> That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
>I'd rather leave this plane the way I entered it.
>Naked, yelling for attention and covered in (someone else's) blood.
old joke:
I wanna die like my grandpa, who died in his sleep.
Not like the three screaming passengers in his car.
Donna Richoux
> Laura Faussone wrote:
>
> > Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
Reuters story to be found various places, such as:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=53
95648
>
> That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
> Tokyo must do something different with their apartments than they do
> here. When I lived in an Apt. I could smell everything they cooked, when
> they lit a joint, when they lit incense. I am VERY sure I could have
> detected a dead body.
>
> Also I don't think my landlord would have waited 20 years for the
> rent...
Please look again -- it was a VACANT building. This guy had been
squatting, alone -- he moved into an abandoned *former* apartment
building, and that's where he died. This story is technically about as
interesting as "Body of homeless vagrant found in ditch" would be.
To me, it's nothing like the stories where people died in genuinely
functioning apartment buildings or neighborhoods and weren't discovered
for months.
--
Donna "or the ones with hungry pets" Richoux
Bill Schnakenberg
To me, the urban legend is that there was a vacant apartment building in
Tokyo.
--
Bill "or no vacant spaces" Schnakenberg
Burroughs Guy
> old joke:
> I wanna die like my grandpa, who died in his sleep.
> Not like the three screaming passengers in his car.
Better delivery:
I want to die in my sleep like my grandpa, not screaming in terror
like the passengers in his car.
--
Burroughs Guy
Vaguer memories available upon request
Marianne Ono
Actually it's not quite as interesting as "body of homeless vagrant
found in ditch where it had lain for 20 years"...
Marianne "...buried under tennis shoes which had fallen off the power
lines" Ono
Mary Shafer
wrote:
> netOBSESSIVE <trask...@NOSPAM.Charter.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
> > Laura Faussone wrote:
> >
> > > Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
>
> Reuters story to be found various places, such as:
> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=53
> 95648
> >
> > That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
> > Tokyo must do something different with their apartments than they do
> > here. When I lived in an Apt. I could smell everything they cooked, when
> > they lit a joint, when they lit incense. I am VERY sure I could have
> > detected a dead body.
> >
> > Also I don't think my landlord would have waited 20 years for the
> > rent...
>
> Please look again -- it was a VACANT building. This guy had been
> squatting, alone -- he moved into an abandoned *former* apartment
> building, and that's where he died. This story is technically about as
> interesting as "Body of homeless vagrant found in ditch" would be.
What's the deal that a building would stand empty in Tokyo for twenty
years? I mean, they buy their land by the square centimeter,
practically, because demand is so high; it seems unrealistic that an
empty apartment building would just sit there for two decades. I'd
think other folks would move in, too, if it was really sitting there
empty that long.
Mary
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
mil...@qnet.com
Richard Fitzpatrick
> Richard Fitzpatrick wrote:
> >netOBSESSIVE wrote...
> >> Laura Faussone wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
> >>
> >> That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
> >
> >I'd rather leave this plane the way I entered it.
> >
> >Naked, yelling for attention and covered in (someone else's) blood.
>
> ... not to mention in bed with a woman who isn't your wife.
At the age of 94 - at the hands of a jealous spouse?
Charles Bishop
(Donna Richoux) wrote:
>
>Please look again -- it was a VACANT building. This guy had been
>squatting, alone -- he moved into an abandoned *former* apartment
>building, and that's where he died. This story is technically about as
>interesting as "Body of homeless vagrant found in ditch" would be.
>
>To me, it's nothing like the stories where people died in genuinely
>functioning apartment buildings or neighborhoods and weren't discovered
>for months.
It is something like them, I think. The similarity turns on the time-20
years is a fair bit and brings this story into the realm of the
interesting.
charles, for values of interesting
Richard Fitzpatrick
2002? Good for you. I first heard it several years before that.
This version is attributed to Dana Gould in his May 4 1991 performance
"Panic, Lust & Confusion," (Showtime):
"We enter this world naked, screaming and covered in blood. It doesn't
have
to stop there if you know how to live right."
http://members.aol.com/baltohoya/rugga8.htm
There are quite a few a hits from people using it as taglines or in
quotation collections.
The version I've seen most often and for the longest has been a bumper
sticker "I intend to leave this world the way I came in. Naked, screaming
and covered in blood."
Poet Sal Salasin used another version in his "12 Cautionary Tales": "We come
into the world naked, screaming, and covered in blood. And I think that
about covers it." http://www.scn.org/realpoetik/12cautnw.html Salasin
doesn't mention the leaving part, though. I couldn't find a copyright
notice or mark associated with that work, but the "diary-entry" puts it as
May 12, 1995.
There were other quotations, but I couldn't find any older than the
attribution to Dana Gould in 1991.
R H Draney
Actually, I'd rather go out like the dinosaurs....
R H "as the victim of a meteorite strike" Draney
Liz & Allan MacDonald
Liz "one last instroke as the body settles"
Louise Bremner
> > Please look again -- it was a VACANT building. This guy had been
> > squatting, alone -- he moved into an abandoned *former* apartment
> > building, and that's where he died. This story is technically about as
> > interesting as "Body of homeless vagrant found in ditch" would be.
>
> What's the deal that a building would stand empty in Tokyo for twenty
> years? I mean, they buy their land by the square centimeter,
> practically, because demand is so high; it seems unrealistic that an
> empty apartment building would just sit there for two decades.
Note that the owner was reported as going bankrupt. It'd just plausible
that the legal complications of the bankruptcy lasted so long, the
bubble burst and so the bank found it couldn't sell it to recoup the
debt--no-one would pay anything like the original price for the land.
There are several empty apartment blocks near where I live (in Western
Tokyo), mostly of the older mortar-on-framework type with one-room
"apartments". There's even a reinforced-concrete building that never
even got finished, which has been that way for at least 16 years to my
knowledge.
________________________________________________________________________
Louise "" Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
netOBSESSIVE
> I want to die in my sleep like my grandpa, not screaming in terror
> like the passengers in his car.
I always heard it :
I want to die in my sleep like my grandpa, not screaming in terror
like the passengers in the bus he drove..
netOBSESSIVE
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Xns923F686591651dadoctah%40216.148.53.81
Doesn't exactly mention someone else's blood though.
David Winsemius
> Actually, I'd rather go out like the dinosaurs....
>
> R H "as the victim of a meteorite strike" Draney
>
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite
"The only reported fatality from meteorite impacts is an Egyptian dog who
was killed in 1911, although this report is disputed. The meteorites that
struck this area were identified in the 1980s as Martian in origin. The
first, and as of 2003, only known modern case of a human being hit by a
space rock occurred on November 30, 1954 in Sylacauga, Alabama. There an
8.5 pound sulfide meteorite crashed through a roof and hit a Mrs. Elizabeth
Hodges in her living room after it bounced off her radio. Other than a
nasty bruise she was OK."
Charles Wm. Dimmick
'Meteorite' hits girl
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3162626.stm
'A meteorite smashed through my roof'
Then there was the Donahue meteorite of 1982. I still have a
piece of it, plus a piece of their attic floor with the
scorch marks at the edge of the hole as it went through the
floor.
For a compilation of a large number of objects and near
misses, and a few hits of people and animals, see:
http://www.branchmeteorites.com/metstruck.html
Charles
--
"And some rin up hill and down dale, knapping the
chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like sae mony
road-makers run daft -- they say it is to see how
the warld was made!"
djl
<lfausso...@gtalumni.org> wrote:
~
~Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
~
~Jun 10, 2:30 pm ET
~
~TOKYO (Reuters) - The pajama-clad skeleton of a Japanese man has been
~found in a vacant apartment building -- 20 years after his lonely death.
~
~The skeleton was discovered lying atop musty "futon" bedding earlier
~this month when workers getting ready to raze the derelict building
~entered the second floor unit where the man had lived, domestic media
~reports said on Thursday.
~
~A newspaper dated February 20, 1984, was on the kitchen table.
~
~Police believe the man, an employee of the construction firm that built
~the apartments in 1973, moved in after the building was vacated when the
~firm managing it went bankrupt, the reports said.
~
~The man, then 57 and divorced with children, suddenly stopped coming in
~to work two decades ago but none of his relatives ever asked police to
~search for him.
~
~"I had no idea that the apartment even existed," the Yomiuri Shimbun
~newspaper quoted a 65-year-old neighbor as saying.
~
~"After I heard the news, I thought 'Oh, it's here.' It's as if time had
~stopped in this one place."
~
~
I believed the story the first time I read it back in c1990 before the internet
was at my fingertips. At that time I was not familiar with the concept of urban
legends. I thought tales of the choking doberman were plausible and I even
believed the young lady in the office when she was collecting cards for Craig.
A few years later I read the same story, again about a man found dead in an
apartment in Germany and I had that "Deja vu all over again" feeling.
I think this story is a hoax that is put out either by the wire service to see
who will bite or supplied to the wire service as a prank. The story is not
nearly as funny as Peter Jennings telling us that Lennin's corpse is for sale
but could fall into the same general category of a story injected into the wire
service feed without verification. The story has several attributes of an urban
legend. As noted above this story is a variation on a similar story I have seen
in the papers at least twice about a German man who was not found until many
years after his death. Someone who has access to the Lexus-Nexus news archive
may want search for cites. It seems odd to me that the deceased is not named
but enough is known about him to know his age, where he worked (which is also
unnamed), that he was divorced and had children. One of the often repeated
rules of journalism is "Who, what, where, when, why, and how". Leaving out the
name of the deceased ignores the who and leaves behind a bouquet of anonymity
similar to the anonymous FOAF. The article says that the building was vacated
when the firm managing it went bankrupt. Seems strange that the owner of the
building or the court appointed receiver did not contract with another firm to
manage the building. If the building was vacant and scheduled to be
demolioshed why did the deceased have a neighbor quoted in the story. I would
think that everyone would have been moved out of the building. As several have
already noted; Tokyo is home to the most valuable real estate in the world. A
building in Tokyo would be too valuable to leave unoccupied and derelict for
twenty years. Like many ULs this one has a moral component that intends to
provoke sadness and sympathy for someone who died all alone in the night without
friends or family present while telling us to live our lives such that our own
friends and family do not abandon us.
DJL
Deja Moo - I've seen this bullshit before.
Vince Barmann
> In article <40c999c9$0$24191$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au>,
> Richard Fitzpatrick <fit...@webone.NO.com.SPAM.au> wrote:
>
>>netOBSESSIVE wrote...
>>
>>>Laura Faussone wrote:
>>>
>>>>Man Lies Dead in Apartment for 20 Years
>>>
>>>That's how I wanna go. Alone, unloved and unmissed.
>>
>>I'd rather leave this plane the way I entered it.
>>
>>Naked, yelling for attention and covered in (someone else's) blood.
>
>
> ... not to mention in bed with a woman who isn't your wife.
That's how you were born, though....
Vince B.
Louise Bremner
> I think this story is a hoax that is put out either by the wire service to
> see who will bite or supplied to the wire service as a prank.
That could explain why I couldn't find anything in Japanese--I assumed
it was just that I lack skill in searching (and I don't subscribe to the
G^HYomiuri, either).
> As several have already noted; Tokyo is home to the most valuable real
> estate in the world. A building in Tokyo would be too valuable to leave
> unoccupied and derelict for twenty years.
Depends which part of Tokyo. I know of several buildings in this suburb
that have been left to rot for nearly that long, and a couple of them
are too heavily secured for homeless people to move in. This detail of
the story fits in well with the knowledge that Japanese financial
institutions have vast amounts of yen tied up in property that they
daren't sell because they'd lose so much--not just money but also
prestige.
Karen J. Cravens
news:DwKyc.7082$Y3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
You left out "and with a whoosh bird crowing on the chimney."
--
Karen J. Cravens
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
I'm still trying to figure out how to take *everyone* with me. I mean,
why settle for anything less?
--
Leif Kjønnøy, cunctator maximus. http://www.pvv.org/~leifmk
Ray Heindl
> I think this story is a hoax that is put out either by the wire
> service to see who will bite or supplied to the wire service as a
> prank.
Some years ago I saw a wire story in the paper that was identical to
the "grandmother's corpse in the rug" story in one of Brunvand's books.
Coincidentally I had just finished reading that book, so it seemed very
obvious that someone had hoaxed the wire service -- or the wire service
had hoaxed their subscribers.
> If the building was vacant and scheduled to be
> demolioshed why did the deceased have a neighbor quoted in the
> story. I would think that everyone would have been moved out of
> the building.
If the decedent could squat there, so could other people. But a
squatter might be reluctant to be quoted in a news article.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: rahe...@xnccwx.net)
Cathy Walshe
A suburban Auckland, NZ, sofa was annihilated by an (apparent)
meteorite, according to occasionally reliable TV sources. The 1.3kg,
four-billion year old rock fell through the roof of the house in
suburban Ellerslie about 9am on June 12 (although how they know its
age before it's been examined remains a mystery).
Householder Brenda Archer said: "I don't know what to make of it, it's
unbelievable. I'm just glad no-one was sitting on the couch because
they would have got absolutely crowned."
Cathy "pounding headache" Walshe
Vince Barmann
Yes, not being confident when whooshbirding is apropos. I mean,
I'm pretty sure, but.... if I'm right one is approaching right now.
Vince B.
David Winsemius
news:EvJyc.7702$bO5....@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com:
What wonderful grist, Charles. What about the assertion by NASA that
meteorites will not be hot when they land?
http://www.southpole.com/headlines/y2001/ast27jul_1.htm
The Meteor Society seems more ambivalent:
http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball/faqf.html#9
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> What wonderful grist, Charles. What about the assertion by NASA that
> meteorites will not be hot when they land?
> http://www.southpole.com/headlines/y2001/ast27jul_1.htm
>
> The Meteor Society seems more ambivalent:
> http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball/faqf.html#9
I have heard first-hand reports of meteorites being warm
to the touch, and also of metorites developing a light
layer of frost shortly after landing. Both are possible.
That the Donahue meteorite scorched an attic floorboard
I have first-hand evidence, but the Donahues told me
that by the time the meteorite landed under their
dining-room table [not _on_ the table as some reports
would have it] it did not seem particularly warm or cold,
perhaps slightly cool. The surface 1/16 of an inch
of the meteorite was a black glass, obviously heated
above the melting point upon entry, but below that was
a sharp transition to ordinary-looking crystalline gray
rock. Since it had been in outer space for a very long
time, that interior would have been quite cold upon
entry.
It is possible that a small [circa 1 inch dia.] fragment
breaking off the outside of a descending bolide might
be noticibly warmer than ambient immediately after landing.
Vince Barmann
When i was about 16 I "almost" got hit by one. Well,about 200
yards; but cosmically.... I heard it hit in the woods nearby.
Looked for it the following day, but no luck. It was flaming
all the way down and looked fairly hot, moving at a speed that
was not tremendous.
people who saw it from miles away said it seemed to be moving
quite slowly, so they assumed it was farther away, but the
angles they saw it at confirmed its relative closeness.
I was having an otherwise rotten day. I began to feel paranoid
after the near-miss from a truck and the dog attack within the
next few minutes.
Vince B.
Simon Slavin
> From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite
>
> "The only reported fatality from meteorite impacts is an Egyptian dog
> who was killed in 1911, although this report is disputed. The
> meteorites that struck this area were identified in the 1980s as
> Martian in origin. The first, and as of 2003, only known modern case of
> a human being hit by a space rock occurred on November 30, 1954 in
> Sylacauga, Alabama. There an 8.5 pound sulfide meteorite crashed
> through a roof and hit a Mrs. Elizabeth Hodges in her living room after
> it bounced off her radio. Other than a nasty bruise she was OK."
It doesn't matter how many people they've killed. These
meteorites have caused millions of dollars of property
damage and they /could/ be used to kill people. I say
the MARTIANS have WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION and I SAY
WE INVADE !
Simon.
--
Using pre-release version of newsreader.
Please tell me if it does weird things.
netOBSESSIVE
> I say
> the MARTIANS have WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION and I SAY
> WE INVADE !
What about trade relations?
R H Draney
>
>Simon Slavin wrote:
>
>> I say
>> the MARTIANS have WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION and I SAY
>> WE INVADE !
>
>What about trade relations?
If they've got oil the first troops will ship on tomorrow....r
David Winsemius
@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com:
> David Winsemius wrote:
>
>> What wonderful grist, Charles. What about the assertion by NASA that
>> meteorites will not be hot when they land?
>> http://www.southpole.com/headlines/y2001/ast27jul_1.htm
>>
>> The Meteor Society seems more ambivalent:
>> http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball/faqf.html#9
>
> I have heard first-hand reports of meteorites being warm
> to the touch, and also of metorites developing a light
> layer of frost shortly after landing. Both are possible.
> That the Donahue meteorite scorched an attic floorboard
> I have first-hand evidence, but the Donahues told me
> that by the time the meteorite landed under their
> dining-room table [not _on_ the table as some reports
> would have it] it did not seem particularly warm or cold,
> perhaps slightly cool. The surface 1/16 of an inch
> of the meteorite was a black glass, obviously heated
> above the melting point upon entry, but below that was
> a sharp transition to ordinary-looking crystalline gray
> rock. Since it had been in outer space for a very long
> time, that interior would have been quite cold upon
> entry.
>
> It is possible that a small [circa 1 inch dia.] fragment
> breaking off the outside of a descending bolide might
> be noticibly warmer than ambient immediately after landing.
>
This Just In: Kiwis Attacked from Outer Space
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1238116,00.html
"A New Zealand couple had an unexpected visitor from space at the weekend
when a 1.3kg (2.8lb) meteorite crashed into their living room shortly
before breakfast."
......
"I couldn't see anything, there was just dust. I thought something had
exploded in the ceiling. Phil saw a stone under the computer and it was
hot to touch."
......
"The only recorded case of a human being hit by a meteorite is a woman in
Alabama, who was bruised by a 4kg rock which crashed through her roof and
bounced off her radio in 1954."
David "THE SKY IS FALLING!" Winsemius
Lon
I saw the blurb on the one that landed in Auckland recently but
nothing on whether it was warm or cold when it came to rest in
some folk's house.
Tried calling the mayor, Jerry Brown, but he, as usual, new nothing
about any of them spacy things, meteorites.
Lon
> Simon Slavin wrote:
>
>
>>I say
>>the MARTIANS have WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION and I SAY
>>WE INVADE !
>
>
> What about trade relations?
>
Are you looking to get rid of your Brother In Law, or suggesting wife
swapping?
Charles Bishop
Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>I have heard first-hand reports of meteorites being warm
>to the touch, and also of metorites developing a light
>layer of frost shortly after landing. Both are possible.
>That the Donahue meteorite scorched an attic floorboard
>I have first-hand evidence, but the Donahues told me
>that by the time the meteorite landed under their
>dining-room table [not _on_ the table as some reports
>would have it] it did not seem particularly warm or cold,
>perhaps slightly cool. The surface 1/16 of an inch
>of the meteorite was a black glass, obviously heated
>above the melting point upon entry, but below that was
>a sharp transition to ordinary-looking crystalline gray
>rock. Since it had been in outer space for a very long
>time, that interior would have been quite cold upon
>entry.
no doubt is being cast by the following question, none, whatsoever-
But-
What condition was the roof in? Any scorching there?
Was the dining room floor scorched? Because you didn't mention these two,
and I'd have thought that if the midlevel shows scorching, then the level
above (roof) and below (floor) should/might show some too.
Any chance it was friction burn? Whatever that is?
About how fast would have it been going at about roof height?
just curious,
westerly charles
Charles Bishop
Barmann <vbarMyFi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[nearmiss by meteor(ite)(oid)]
>I was having an otherwise rotten day. I began to feel paranoid
>after the near-miss from a truck and the dog attack within the
>next few minutes.
Why you're not a conspiricy theorist, I'll never know.
charles, "drat, missed again"
Charles Bishop
<dwin$emiu$@fnord.comcast.net> wrote:
>
>David "THE SKY IS FALLING!" Winsemius
"I'd sooner believe that scientists would lie, than rocks would fall from
the sky."
charles, google was no help with accuracy or who
Charles Bishop
>
>> David Winsemius <dwin$emiu$@fnord.comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>From Wikipedia:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite
>>
>>>"The only reported fatality from meteorite impacts is an Egyptian dog
>>>who was killed in 1911, although this report is disputed. The
>>>meteorites that struck this area were identified in the 1980s as
>>>Martian in origin. The first, and as of 2003, only known modern case of
>>>a human being hit by a space rock occurred on November 30, 1954 in
>>>Sylacauga, Alabama. There an 8.5 pound sulfide meteorite crashed
>>>through a roof and hit a Mrs. Elizabeth Hodges in her living room after
>>>it bounced off her radio. Other than a nasty bruise she was OK."
> I saw the blurb on the one that landed in Auckland recently but
> nothing on whether it was warm or cold when it came to rest in
> some folk's house.
>
> Tried calling the mayor, Jerry Brown, but he, as usual, new nothing
> about any of them spacy things, meteorites.
Lon, you got on the wrong plane.
charles, again
R H Draney
Jefferson...you'll have better luck if you specify "yankee scientists"....r
Charles Wm. Dimmick
>>I have heard first-hand reports of meteorites being warm
>>to the touch, and also of metorites developing a light
>>layer of frost shortly after landing. Both are possible.
>>That the Donahue meteorite scorched an attic floorboard
>>I have first-hand evidence, but the Donahues told me
>>that by the time the meteorite landed under their
>>dining-room table [not _on_ the table as some reports
>>would have it] it did not seem particularly warm or cold,
>>perhaps slightly cool.
> What condition was the roof in? Any scorching there?
Donno. This happened in the evening. By the time I got
there the next morning the roof had a temporary patch on it.
Bits of wood and asphalt shingle from the roof were in
the attic, but nothing distinctive, nothing that was
obviously at the edge of the penetrating body. What I have
is a piece of the attic floorboard.
>
> Was the dining room floor scorched? Because you didn't mention these two,
> and I'd have thought that if the midlevel shows scorching, then the level
> above (roof) and below (floor) should/might show some too.
No scorching on living-room floor where it hit, nor on the
dining-room ceiling or wall or floor, where it bounced. It
came through into the living-room, hit the floor, bounced
into the dining room, where it hit the ceiling, then wall,
then rolled under the dining-room table [this based on
police analysis of trajectory
>
> Any chance it was friction burn? Whatever that is?
It is quite possible, and that would be my own guess.
> About how fast would have it been going at about roof height?
> just curious,
I don't know. Someone may have worked this out, but if so
I never saw the figures.
> westerly charles
Charles of the east.
Vince Barmann
I am a conspiracy theorist. I believe someone is deliberately
trying to make me believe in conspiracies. Fortunately, I'm
immune.
Vince "Gimme nother of them anti-conspiracy pills, Moira" B.
Lee Ayrton
> >>... not to mention in bed with a woman who isn't your wife.
> >
> > At the age of 94 - at the hands of a jealous spouse?
> >
> On the outstroke.
>
> Liz "one last instroke as the body settles"
Nelson Rockefeller? Izzat you?
<URL:http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/penis_417.html>
Lee "See also: The first act of _Private Benjamin_" Ayrton
Jesse F. Hughes
R H Draney <dado...@earthlink.net> writes:
> Richard Fitzpatrick filted:
>>
>>I'd rather leave this plane the way I entered it.
>>
>>Naked, yelling for attention and covered in (someone else's) blood.
I can't help thinking that you're not a frequent flyer.
After 9-11, good luck entering the plane like that. Before, perhaps.
--
"At the Microsoft-sponsored cocktail reception in the Galaxy Ballroom
that evening, Robert Dees urges us 'to network on behalf of the people
of Iraq,'"
-- Naomi Klein reports on Microsoft's efforts to further democracy.
Karen J. Cravens
news:87vfhta...@phiwumbda.org:
> I can't help thinking that you're not a frequent flyer.
> After 9-11, good luck entering the plane like that. Before, perhaps.
Oh, I think it's still par for the course on vacation charters.
--
Karen J. Cravens
Lon
Kinda like using salmon eggs in Montana, eh?
PS. When did you change your last name? Was it worth all the effort,
as you only moved one position forward in line unless you live in
B-ville.
Burroughs Guy
> For a compilation of a large number of objects and near
> misses, and a few hits of people and animals, see:
> http://www.branchmeteorites.com/metstruck.html
Excellent page. Bookmarked.
I am reminded of the words of Thomas Jefferson: "I would more easily
believe that two Yankee professors would lie, than that stones would
fall from heaven." It's not that Jefferson ever said stones don't
fall from heaven, but he made the valid point that it is so unlike any
other known natural phenomenon that such claims should be met with
stern skepticism.
--
Burroughs Guy
Vaguer memories available upon request
Burroughs Guy
> What wonderful grist, Charles. What about the assertion by NASA that
> meteorites will not be hot when they land?
> http://www.southpole.com/headlines/y2001/ast27jul_1.htm
One side will be very hot and the other side will be very cold. The
size and shape of the meteor will determine the ratio of hot part to
cold part. In a minute or so the temperature will equalize. It may
be hot cold or in between.
Ad absurdum per aspera
> years? I mean, they buy their land by the square centimeter,
> practically, because demand is so high
I think there's a LOT more to this story than meets the wire service.
At first I too thought "long abandoned building? Tokyo?"; but then I
vaguely remembered something about the popping of their infamous
real-estate bubble in the early 90s. Perhaps all this was compounded
by something badly wrong with the building, especially considering
that that's earthquake country. So... I dunno; maybe what with the
physical and the financial aspects of construction and the possible
legal encumberments mentioned by others, they're just now getting
around to demolition.
But the really missing bit of the story is the personal side. Hmm...
family and cow orkers notice his absence but apparently make no
inquiry earnest enough to involve the police. Maybe they were
embarrassed by the fact that he was basically living in a squat?
Maybe *he* was embarrassed by his reduced circumstances and very
secretive about his new life? Maybe there were drugs or mental
illness involved? Maybe he was a nomadic sort whose well known
pattern was one of unannounced and unexplained absences? Pick one or
more, or something I've not thought of at all.
Or maybe the reporter didn't probe all that deeply, or tried and ran
into nothing but cold trails and dead ends, or...
Anyway, that's really what makes the alone-unloved-unmissed part
newsworthy. When a vagrant dies under a bridge somewhere, that's
pathetic, certainly, and illustrative of a flaw in a society that
would seem to have more than enough resources to take better care of
such people, but it's too accepted (rightly or not) as the normal
course of things to be considered news. When someone with a job, and
people who (presumably) knew him and cared about him, just goes
missing, one wonders why.
Cheers,
--Joe
Norton Zenger
>David Winsemius wrote:
>
>> What wonderful grist, Charles. What about the assertion by NASA that
>> meteorites will not be hot when they land?
>> http://www.southpole.com/headlines/y2001/ast27jul_1.htm
>
>One side will be very hot and the other side will be very cold. The
>size and shape of the meteor will determine the ratio of hot part to
>cold part. In a minute or so the temperature will equalize. It may
>be hot cold or in between.
So basically they're a cosmic McDLT?
Michael Kuettner
"Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1gfb3hc.amspxd1ib2syyN%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> <djl> wrote:
>
> > I think this story is a hoax that is put out either by the wire service
to
> > see who will bite or supplied to the wire service as a prank.
>
> That could explain why I couldn't find anything in Japanese--I assumed
> it was just that I lack skill in searching (and I don't subscribe to the
> G^HYomiuri, either).
>
> > As several have already noted; Tokyo is home to the most valuable real
> > estate in the world. A building in Tokyo would be too valuable to leave
> > unoccupied and derelict for twenty years.
>
> Depends which part of Tokyo. I know of several buildings in this suburb
> that have been left to rot for nearly that long, and a couple of them
> are too heavily secured for homeless people to move in. This detail of
> the story fits in well with the knowledge that Japanese financial
> institutions have vast amounts of yen tied up in property that they
> daren't sell because they'd lose so much--not just money but also
> prestige.
>
Might it be that there was some speculation going on ?
Like letting the buildings rot until they have to be torn down
to make place for some nice new sky-scrapers ?
So it's not a case of losing prestige but of holding on to a
two-storey-building which doesn't bring profit now but
will as soon as it's torn down ?
I know of some cases over here in Austri(Li)a where exactly
that happened.
Some very nice old buildings were destroyed by that practice.
But I don't know nothing about Japanese conservation laws.
Michael "but at least I've watched Shogun" Kuettner
Alan Follett
> Charles Bishop filted:
>> "I'd sooner believe that scientists would lie,
>> than rocks would fall from the sky."
>> charles, google was no help with accuracy
>> or who
> Jefferson...you'll have better luck if you
> specify "yankee scientists"....r
Or, better, "Yankee professors." From:
http://fernlea.tripod.com/sale5.html
"Weston (Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA) H4 (stone) - fell 14th
December 1807:
"'It is easier to believe that two Yankee professors would lie than that
stones would fall from heaven!' - President Thomas Jefferson, 1807.
"The Weston meteorite is the first documented fall of rocks from space
to have fallen on US soil. It occurred at a critical time in the history
of meteorite research, just as science was beginning to concede that
rocks really DO fall from space and land on the Earth (See also listings
for Wold Cottage & L'Aigle). Some people still maintained that
meteorites were really just rocks that had been hurled from distant
volcanoes, or stones that had been struck by lightning and melted.
"Shortly after the Weston fall, Yale professors, Benjamin Silliman and
James Kingsley travelled to Weston to interview witnesses and to collect
fragments of the meteorite. Back in their Yale laboratory, these
fragments were analysed and found to be....well.....stony meteorites
basically!
"After reading a report written by the two Yale professors, President
Thomas Jefferson reputedly exclaimed "It is easier to believe that two
Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall from heaven!".
While dining with a senator, after listening to another account of the
Weston meteorite fall and examining a sample, Jefferson stated that five
words summed up the whole case.....'It is all a lie.'"
The "reputedly exclaimed" attribution bothers me a bit; I've been unable
to find the original source for this oft-quoted remark.
Alan "paging Andrew McMichael!" Follett
Ben Zimmer
>
> dado...@earthlink.net (R H Draney) wrote:
>
> > Charles Bishop filted:
>
> >> "I'd sooner believe that scientists would lie,
> >> than rocks would fall from the sky."
>
> >> charles, google was no help with accuracy
> >> or who
>
> > Jefferson...you'll have better luck if you
> > specify "yankee scientists"....r
>
> Or, better, "Yankee professors." From:
>
> http://fernlea.tripod.com/sale5.html
>
> "Weston (Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA) H4 (stone) - fell 14th
> December 1807:
>
> "After reading a report written by the two Yale professors, President
> Thomas Jefferson reputedly exclaimed "It is easier to believe that two
> Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall from heaven!".
> While dining with a senator, after listening to another account of the
> Weston meteorite fall and examining a sample, Jefferson stated that five
> words summed up the whole case.....'It is all a lie.'"
>
> The "reputedly exclaimed" attribution bothers me a bit; I've been unable
> to find the original source for this oft-quoted remark.
Some debunkage here:
http://www7.pair.com/arthur/meteor/archive/archive9/Dec99/msg00108.html
ASTRONOMY NOW, Dec 99, p. 74:
Thomas Jefferson, third wisest President of the United States,
is doomed to appear in astronomy books as an awful warning to
us all. Author after author claims that Jefferson sneered at
meteors. When one exploded over Weston, Connecticut, on
December 14, 1807, he is said to have declared "I should
sooner believe that Yankee professors should lie than that
stones should fall from heaven".
The presence of "Yankee" and the triple "should" instantly
suggests that the quote is apocryphal. Jefferson's speech
was unfailingly elegant and, as so often, the truth is more
entertaining than the legend.
[etc.]
See also this sci.skeptic thread:
http://groups.google.com/groups?th=94ac1c462d5693d0
Ben "jefferson star-quip" Zimmer
Burroughs Guy
> Some debunkage here:
You misspieled "non-debunkage".
> http://www7.pair.com/arthur/meteor/archive/archive9/Dec99/msg00108.html
>
> ASTRONOMY NOW, Dec 99, p. 74:
> Thomas Jefferson, third wisest President of the United States,
> is doomed to appear in astronomy books as an awful warning to
> us all. Author after author claims that Jefferson sneered at
> meteors. When one exploded over Weston, Connecticut, on
> December 14, 1807, he is said to have declared "I should
> sooner believe that Yankee professors should lie than that
> stones should fall from heaven".
> The presence of "Yankee" and the triple "should" instantly
> suggests that the quote is apocryphal. Jefferson's speech
> was unfailingly elegant and, as so often, the truth is more
> entertaining than the legend.
> [etc.]
Oen of my biggest peeves is when people mis-state some claim, and then
attack the part they have mangled. A search of the Internet shows
most citations have Jefferson using the word "would" not "should".
According to the James Randi Foundation, Thomas Jefferson said
I would more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie,
than that stones would fall from heaven.
http://www.randi.org/jr/030703.html
This is a far cry from saying the claim is a lie. Jefferson is just
applying Occam's Razor. Since stones falling from heaven is so unlike
any other natural phenomenon, this simplest explanation is that this
is a hoax. According to that same cite, two months later Jefferson
was encouraging proper scientific study of the alleged meteor:
I should think that an inquiry by some one of our scientific
societies, as the Philosophical Society of Philadelphia for
example, would be most likely to be directed with such caution
and knowledge of the subject, as would inspire a general
confidence.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
>>Some debunkage here:
> You misspieled "non-debunkage".
> Oen of my biggest peeves is when people mis-state some claim, and then
> attack the part they have mangled. A search of the Internet shows
> most citations have Jefferson using the word "would" not "should".
> According to the James Randi Foundation, Thomas Jefferson said
>
> I would more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie,
> than that stones would fall from heaven.
> http://www.randi.org/jr/030703.html
>
> This is a far cry from saying the claim is a lie. Jefferson is just
> applying Occam's Razor.
Where is your proof that Jefferson ever made the statement to
begin with? It is impossible to state that "Jefferson is just
applying Occan's Razor" unless you can prove that Jefferson
made the statement attributed to him. Quoting others as saying
that Jefferson made the statement is hearsay, and not real
evidence. I would more easily believe that others made up
the quote and attributed it to Jefferson than that Jefferson
would have made the statement attributed to him.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Gerald Clough
> Where is your proof that Jefferson ever made the statement to
> begin with? It is impossible to state that "Jefferson is just
> applying Occan's Razor" unless you can prove that Jefferson
> made the statement attributed to him. Quoting others as saying
> that Jefferson made the statement is hearsay, and not real
> evidence. I would more easily believe that others made up
> the quote and attributed it to Jefferson than that Jefferson
> would have made the statement attributed to him.
I understand that the extraterrestrial nature of meteorites wasn't
understood at the time and that they were imagined to be of atmospheric
origin. On the other hand, a popular Samuel Johnson quote begins,
"Tradition is but a meteor, which, if it once falls, cannot be
rekindled." I don't know the date, but since Johnson died in 1784, one
would presume that the knowledge that they do indeed fall to Earth,
whatever their origin, was available during his lifetime. The Jefferson
quote, when dated, is placed well after that, 1809. Or 1807, the year of
the strike.
At any rate, there was no argument about "stones falling from the sky".
The confusion was where they were from. The Jefferson quote is, so far
as I can find, never attributed to anyone having heard it. I should
think that it is such an extraordinary thing to claim to have been said
by Jefferson, given his interest in science, that somewhere it would
include a citation. I wonder how far back the quote appears.
--
Gerald 'heads up!' Clough
Burroughs Guy
> > I would more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie,
> > than that stones would fall from heaven.
> > http://www.randi.org/jr/030703.html
> >
> > This is a far cry from saying the claim is a lie. Jefferson is just
> > applying Occam's Razor.
>
> Where is your proof that Jefferson ever made the statement to
> begin with? It is impossible to state that "Jefferson is just
> applying Occan's Razor" unless you can prove that Jefferson
> made the statement attributed to him.
I believe the Amazing Randi.
Ben Zimmer
>
> Ben Zimmer wrote:
>
> > Some debunkage here:
>
> You misspieled "non-debunkage".
>
> > http://www7.pair.com/arthur/meteor/archive/archive9/Dec99/msg00108.html
> >
> > ASTRONOMY NOW, Dec 99, p. 74:
> > Thomas Jefferson, third wisest President of the United States,
> > is doomed to appear in astronomy books as an awful warning to
> > us all. Author after author claims that Jefferson sneered at
> > meteors. When one exploded over Weston, Connecticut, on
> > December 14, 1807, he is said to have declared "I should
> > sooner believe that Yankee professors should lie than that
> > stones should fall from heaven".
> > The presence of "Yankee" and the triple "should" instantly
> > suggests that the quote is apocryphal. Jefferson's speech
> > was unfailingly elegant and, as so often, the truth is more
> > entertaining than the legend.
> > [etc.]
>
> Oen of my biggest peeves is when people mis-state some claim, and then
> attack the part they have mangled. A search of the Internet shows
> most citations have Jefferson using the word "would" not "should".
I'm with you on your peeve, but the business about the triple "should"
is only the beginning of the article. I snipped the remaining debunkage
in the interest of brevity and figured that those interested would click
on the link to read the rest.
> According to the James Randi Foundation, Thomas Jefferson said
>
> I would more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie,
> than that stones would fall from heaven.
> http://www.randi.org/jr/030703.html
>
> This is a far cry from saying the claim is a lie. Jefferson is just
> applying Occam's Razor. Since stones falling from heaven is so unlike
> any other natural phenomenon, this simplest explanation is that this
> is a hoax. According to that same cite, two months later Jefferson
> was encouraging proper scientific study of the alleged meteor:
>
> I should think that an inquiry by some one of our scientific
> societies, as the Philosophical Society of Philadelphia for
> example, would be most likely to be directed with such caution
> and knowledge of the subject, as would inspire a general
> confidence.
Yes, this was included in the "Astronomy Now" article as well (see the
link). The letter (to one of the meteorite's collectors, Daniel Salmon)
is the only verifiable comment on the meteorite that we have from
Jefferson. I agree with the author of the "Astronomy Now" article that
Jefferson's reply is the probable origin of the "Yankee professors"
quote. His healthy skepticism about the claim was transmogrified (by
some anti-Jeffersonian, no doubt) into a wholesale mockery of the
possibility of meteorites.
The thread (<http://groups.google.com/groups?th=94ac1c462d5693d0>) on
sci.skeptic that I cited gives some information about a meteorite that
exploded over a French town in 1803. The physicist J. B. Biot verified
the claim and reported his evidence to the French Academy later that
year. It seems likely that Jefferson, a noted naturalist, would have
been familiar with Biot's report long before he received news about the
Weston meteorite.
Ben "go and catch a falling star..." Zimmer
Ben Zimmer
>
> Ben Zimmer wrote:
>
> >
> > ASTRONOMY NOW, Dec 99, p. 74:
> > Thomas Jefferson, third wisest President of the United States,
> > is doomed to appear in astronomy books as an awful warning to
> > us all. Author after author claims that Jefferson sneered at
> > meteors. When one exploded over Weston, Connecticut, on
> > December 14, 1807, he is said to have declared "I should
> > sooner believe that Yankee professors should lie than that
> > stones should fall from heaven".
> > The presence of "Yankee" and the triple "should" instantly
> > suggests that the quote is apocryphal. Jefferson's speech
> > was unfailingly elegant and, as so often, the truth is more
> > entertaining than the legend.
> > [etc.]
>
> Oen of my biggest peeves is when people mis-state some claim, and then
> attack the part they have mangled. A search of the Internet shows
> most citations have Jefferson using the word "would" not "should".
> According to the James Randi Foundation, Thomas Jefferson said
>
> I would more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie,
> than that stones would fall from heaven.
> http://www.randi.org/jr/030703.html
The mutations of this one are countless... Here's what an Amazon search
<http://tinyurl.com/3gb8y> turns up for books attributing a direct quote
to Jefferson (alphabetized for your convenience):
-------------
Gentlemen, I would rather believe that those two Yankee professors would
lie than believe that stones would fall from heaven.
Gentlemen, I would rather believe that those two Yankee Professors would
lie than to believe that stones fell from heaven.
I could more easily believe that two Yankee professors could lie than
that stones could fall from Heaven.
I could more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie than
that stones would fall from heaven.
I could more easily believe two Yankee professors would lie than stones
would fall from heaven.
I could more easily believe two Yankee professors would lie than that
stones would fall from heaven.
I would find it easier to believe that two Yankee professors would lie,
than that stones should fall from the sky.
I would more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie than
that stones would fall from heaven.
I would much sooner believe that Yankee professors would lie than that
stones would fall from the heavens.
I would prefer to believe that two Yankee professors would lie rather
than that stones could fall from heaven.
I would rather believe that a Yankee professor would lie than stones
fall from the sky.
I would rather believe that Yankee professors would lie, than to believe
that rocks can fall from the sky.
I would sooner believe that two Yankee professors lied, than that stones
fell from the sky.
It is easier to believe that two Yankee professors would lie, than that
stones would fall from heaven.
It is easier to believe that Yankee professors would lie than that
stones would fall from heaven.
-------------
The only book I noticed on Amazon that actually gives a citation is
Christopher Cerf's _The Experts Speak: The Definitive Compendium of
Authoritative Misinformation_. Cerf gives the version, "I could more
easily believe two Yankee professors would lie than stones would fall
from heaven," and says that it is "quoted in _Physics Bulletin_, 1968;
quoted from R.L. Weber and E. Mendoza, _Random Walk in Science_
(Philadelphia: Heyden & Son, 1973), p. 81."
And here are some older variants from the Proquest historical newspapers
database:
It is easier to believe that two Yankee professors will lie
than to admit that stones can fall from heaven.
Washington Post, May 13, 1906
One can rather believe that two Yankee professors lie than
believe that stones fall from heaven.
Washington Post, Nov 11, 1917
I would prefer to believe that two Yankee professors should
lie rather than that stones should fall from heaven.
New York Times, May 25, 1930
I would prefer to believe that two Yankee professors should
lie than that stones should fall from heaven.
New York Times, Oct 5, 1930 (and Dec 14, 1930)
I would rather believe that these two Yankee professors would
lie than to believe that stones fell from heaven.
Washington Post, Sep 30, 1934
If nothing else, Jefferson's quote fulfills the "appears mysteriously
and spreads spontaneously in varying forms" requirement for ULs.
Ben "meteorite mutations... like the Blob?" Zimmer
R H Draney
Ladies and Gentlemen, you've been listening to the collected poetry of Philip
Glass....r
artyw
I'm waiting for the variant with the Red Sox professors...
That is my Real Name
(This space intentionally left blank)