Dear Abby refutes a UL!
Ted Frank
Dear Abby said it was ok to throw rice at weddings, because
the rice does *not* explode in birds' stomachs.
(However, she may have inadvertantly started a new UL when
she didn't refute the letter writer's statement that the
original UL was started by the birdseed industry.)
--Ted "Me, I throw Pop Rocks" Frank
--
Ted Frank + "You probably heard that the Soviet Union broke up
1307 E 60 St, #109 + recently. Me, I blame Yoko." -- Daniel Frank
U o' C Law Skool + "Here it is, three weeks into 1992, and Oliver Stone
Chi, IL 60637 + is *still* signing his checks 1963." -- Daniel Frank
JOSEPH T CHEW
ObBird: Dried coconut expands (not explosively) when the bird
drinks water, with lethal results, and is therefore not to be put
in the bird-feeder, no matter how avidly they peck away at it.
Fact or folklore?
Quasireference: I'm pretty sure I read this as a kid in one of those
"How to Attract, Identify, Fatten, and Cook Common American Songbirds"
books during a long-ago brush with birding.
-- Joe "Hemp, millet, sunflower seeds, and Alka-Seltzer" Chew
Unterhund
> -- Joe "Hemp, millet, sunflower seeds, and Alka-Seltzer" Chew
So that's how you get the birds to keep coming back to the
feeder.
Patrick "No flames please. Burning hemp is illegal." Clark
--
Patrick S. Clark | "Sometimes a nice, simple bit of assault
Internet: sl...@cc.usu.edu | works as well as wizardry." - Runcible,
Bitnet: slb3y@usu | in "Hershey's Kisses" by Ron Goulart
Disclaimer: Universities should encourage independent thought.
Terry Chan
writes:
+In article <20...@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, jtc...@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW) writes
+> -- Joe "Hemp, millet, sunflower seeds, and Alka-Seltzer" Chew
+ ^^^^
+ So that's how you get the birds to keep coming back to the
+feeder.
Lord know though, that it's all over when they get to the Alka-Seltzer.
Terry "If they blow up after eating dried coconut...won't they be tasty?" Chan
--
================================================================================
INTERNET: twc...@lbl.gov BITNET: twc...@lbl.bitnet
"I got a rock." -- Charlie Brown
Bob Morris
material from wherever they can without attribution, so I have no
idea where these really come from:
Chow Mein is not Chinese; it was invented in California.
Chimichangas are unknown in Mexico (for the non Southwesterners, it's
an item served in Mexican restaurants).
There were SEVEN Cleopatras and NONE of them were Egyptian.
Bob Morris mor...@anasaz.UUCP "When you do a good deed, get a receipt,
My opinions only, of course... just in case Heaven works like the IRS"
anasaz!mor...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu --Gallagher
Terry Chan
+I heard some ULs refuted on the radio this morning. These guys steal
+material from wherever they can without attribution, so I have no
+idea where these really come from:
+
+Chow Mein is not Chinese; it was invented in California.
Chow mein is a chinese dish. Perhaps they said/meant Chop Suey, which
was invented somewhere in the US (probably by the same people who put
together the fortune cookie).
BTW, anyone picking up any of the clothing with the _New York Post_
headlines design? I love the one that says "Headless Man Found in
Topless Bar".
Terry "Sauerkraut is actually French" Chan
Brian Gordon
>material from wherever they can without attribution, so I have no
>idea where these really come from:
>
>Chow Mein is not Chinese; it was invented in California.
Hmmm. Sounds ULish. I seem to recall Chop Suey as being invented by a
Chinese cook in Manhattan (NYC) when unexpected dinner guests arrived and he
served them "diced leftovers". Sound familiar to anyone?
--
:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
| Brian G. Gordon bri...@Sun.COM |
| bri...@netcom.COM |
:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Tom Neff
>BTW, anyone picking up any of the clothing with the _New York Post_
>headlines design? I love the one that says "Headless Man Found in
>Topless Bar".
Terry, Terry, you rube.
The headline is at least 15 years old and it was
HEADLESS BODY
IN TOPLESS BAR
which is the Post's little claim to tabloid immortality, as
FORD TO CITY:
DROP DEAD!
was for the NY Daily News.
Now they're sold on tacky T-shirts in tourist boutiques.
Nicholas C. Hester
Gordon) says:
>
>Hmmm. Sounds ULish. I seem to recall Chop Suey as being invented by a
>Chinese cook in Manhattan (NYC) when unexpected dinner guests arrived and he
>served them "diced leftovers". Sound familiar to anyone?
From what I've read, Chop Suey (sp?) was invented by Chinese cooks
during the building of the railroad. I heard that it means "this and that".
__
Nicholas C. Hester
ia8...@Maine.Bitnet
ia8...@maine.maine.edu
| "Of all the tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may |
| may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons |
| than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may |
| sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who |
| torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so |
| with the approval of their consciences." -- C.S. Lewis |
S. Mudgett aka little gator
(Ted Frank) writes:
>
> In response to a letter from a concerned letter-writer today,
> Dear Abby said it was ok to throw rice at weddings, because
> the rice does *not* explode in birds' stomachs.
scouts, lost the hearing in one ear when a grain of rice flung during her
wedding flew into her ear and damaged it.
anybody else remember that one?
--
-- little gator aka S. Mudgett email: s...@harvee.uucp
-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
Terry Chan
+In article <20...@dog.ee.lbl.gov> twc...@lbl.gov writes:
+>BTW, anyone picking up any of the clothing with the _New York Post_
+>headlines design? I love the one that says "Headless Man Found in
+>Topless Bar".
+
+Terry, Terry, you rube.
+
+The headline is at least 15 years old and it was
+
+ HEADLESS BODY
+ IN TOPLESS BAR
So I'm a little behind on my reading, Tom.
Terry "'sides, I was relating the FOAF issue" Chan
bill nelson
>>In article <1992Jan23.183728.715@anasaz> morris@anasaz (Bob Morris) writes:
>>I heard some ULs refuted on the radio this morning. These guys steal
>>material from wherever they can without attribution, so I have no
>>idea where these really come from:
>>
>>Chow Mein is not Chinese; it was invented in California.
>> [...]
>Hmmm. Sounds ULish. I seem to recall Chop Suey as being invented by a
>Chinese cook in Manhattan (NYC) when unexpected dinner guests arrived and he
>served them "diced leftovers". Sound familiar to anyone?
Chow Mein comes from Peking China - derived from "ch'ao mein", meaning "fried
dough".
Chop Suey is from the Cantonese "shap sui", meaning "miscellaneous bits".
Bill "Hot Oil" Nelson
Arlen Speights
>>>Chow Mein is not Chinese; it was invented in California.
>>Hmmm. Sounds ULish. I seem to recall Chop Suey as being invented by a
>>Chinese cook in Manhattan (NYC) when unexpected dinner guests arrived and he
>>served them "diced leftovers". Sound familiar to anyone?
>Chow Mein comes from Peking China - derived from "ch'ao mein", meaning "fried
>dough".
>Chop Suey is from the Cantonese "shap sui", meaning "miscellaneous bits".
At a recent lecture, a NY Times art critic mentioned that until the
time of columbus, Italians had never laid eyes on a tomato. UL?
Arlen P. Speights
Patrick L Humphrey
Not. Tomatoes were known only to the New World (specifically, the Aztecs
and Mayans, and their neighbors) until Columbus brought a few back from his
first trip...and the rest is history.
--
Patrick L. Humphrey (pat...@is.rice.edu) Rice Networking & Computing Systems
+1 713 528-3626 at Rice. 713 776-1541 at home. 713 527-4056 at Willy's Pub.
Support term limitations for politicians:
two terms -- one in office and one in jail.
Elizabeth G. Levy
>>>>Hmmm. Sounds ULish. I seem to recall Chop Suey as being invented by a
>>>>Chinese cook in Manhattan (NYC) when unexpected dinner guests arrived and he
>>>>served them "diced leftovers". Sound familiar to anyone?
I thought it was invented, so to speak, by Chinese workers on the
Continental Railroad. Left-overs gooped together. Easily impressed
Americans then hailed it as a great and wonderful dish. Musta gotten
a lot of laughs on the part of the Chinese.
>>
>>At a recent lecture, a NY Times art critic mentioned that until the
>>time of columbus, Italians had never laid eyes on a tomato. UL?
>
>Not. Tomatoes were known only to the New World (specifically, the Aztecs
>and Mayans, and their neighbors) until Columbus brought a few back from his
>first trip...and the rest is history.
I thought they had tomatoes, but thought they were poisonous, since
tomatoes are a relative of nightshade, or some other plant you wouldn't
want to serve your friends. When Columbus reported that, yes, you could
eat them and live, marinara sauce was invented.
Also, the Italians didn't have pasta 'till Marco Polo brought it back
from China. Traditional dishes aren't that old.
Potatoes were brought back from the New World (the Irish didn't grow
them till recently). I believe oranges are a similar import. That
Orange-flavored chicken in Chinese restaurants probably has a "recent"
history.
Jeffrey Davis
>and Mayans, and their neighbors) until Columbus brought a few back from his
>first trip...and the rest is history.
>
>--
Peruvian equivalent of the Cole Porter song?
--
Jeffrey Davis <da...@keats.ca.uky.edu>
pig plagiarism BELLY SLIPPERS POODLE TEMPER BAD MUSIC
SENTIMENTAL GALLIC GUSH SENSATIONALISM FUSSINESS
Cindy Kandolf
>At a recent lecture, a NY Times art critic mentioned that until the
>time of columbus, Italians had never laid eyes on a tomato. UL?
Absatutely true. Tomatoes are native to the Western Hemisphere.
-Cindy Kandolf
ci...@solan.unit.no
Trondheim, Norway
Paul Smee
>time of columbus, Italians had never laid eyes on a tomato. UL?
No, true. All of tomatoes, potatoes, corn (in the US sense, also known
as maize or 'sweet corn'), and hot peppers (the capiscum family -- not
to be confused with peppercorns, such as black pepper) were New World
plants, unknown in Europe/Asia/Africa/Australia until some time after
Columbus. Also, tobacco. Amazing the way tomatoes, potatoes, and
peppers have so (comparatively) rapidly become part of the 'traditional
staple diets' in so much of the Old World. The three are actually vague
relatives of each other, so presumably there is some ancient common
ancestor (the 'pomatper'?) which evolved in the Americas. Not sure of
the status of 'sweet' or 'bell' peppers, but I suspect the same is true
of them.
(This month's 'Smithsonian' magazine has a long article about hot
peppers. Don't know where you can get it other than by subscription,
though.)
--
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
P.S...@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!ukc!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Terry Chan
eg...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes:
+Also, the Italians didn't have pasta 'till Marco Polo brought it back
+from China. Traditional dishes aren't that old.
I thought that this was one of those historical corrections which weren't.
That is, the debunking process was:
Premise: Italians invented pasta.
1st Try: No, Marco Polo brought it back from China (along w/ice cream, etc.)
2nd Try: No, Marco Polo did not bring it back from China and despite great
odds, the Italians invented it themselves.
Any idea, AFU revisionist gourmands?
Terry "Actually, Latin is based on Chinese" Chan
Terry Chan
writes:
+Aren't tomatoes and potatoes Peruvian....and if they are, what is the
+Peruvian equivalent of the Cole Porter song?
Tu dices tomate.
Yo digo tomato.
Terry "Gershwin" Chan
Jerry Gaiser N7PWF
>time of columbus, Italians had never laid eyes on a tomato. UL?
>
>Arlen P. Speights
No UL. Tomatoes, peppers, potatoes and cocoa are all examples of foodstuffs
that Europe (or the rest of the world) knew nothing about until after the
discovery of the New World.
--
Jerry Gaiser (N7PWF) -- Relax. Don't worry. Have a homebrew
je...@jaizer.intel.com
PBBSnet: n7pwf@n7pwf.#pdx.or.usa.na
Certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
David Esan
Depends on your definitions.
Cleo was born and raised in Egypt. When Alexander the Great died (~323 BCE)
his empire split into three pieces, with his general Ptolmey getting Egypt.
Cleo (the one Liz Taylor played) was born sort 250 years later. Her family
had ruled Egypt for this time. They spoke Greek, and considered themselves
Greek. But they were long residents of Egypt, and had adopted many Egyptian
customs, like marrying your brother/sister.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--> David Esan d...@moscom.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicholas C. Hester
Humphrey) says:
>
>Not. Tomatoes were known only to the New World (specifically, the Aztecs
>and Mayans, and their neighbors) until Columbus brought a few back from his
>first trip...and the rest is history.
And "brown" sauces are still more prevalent in Northern Italy, than in the
Southern part where tomato sauces prevail.
__
Nicholas C. Hester
ia8...@Maine.Bitnet
ia8...@maine.maine.edu
| "Of all the tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may |
Vince Gibboni
>from China. Traditional dishes aren't that old.
>
Actually, according to the damn-near-infallible Cecil Adams, this is
a myth or, as he puts it, "a baseless slander against the inventiveness
of the Italian people".
Also, one of the Teeming Millions claims that tomatoes weren't introduced
until after the conquest on Mexico in 1522 (by which time, I'm pretty
sure, Columbus was fairly dead).
In Boston drivers don't even obey the laws of _physics_.
- Dave Barry
Phil Gustafson
>
>Premise: Italians invented pasta.
>
>1st Try: No, Marco Polo brought it back from China (along w/ice cream, etc.)
>
>2nd Try: No, Marco Polo did not bring it back from China and despite great
> odds, the Italians invented it themselves.
>
>Any idea, AFU revisionist gourmands?
Marco Polo could care less about pasta: he was interested in spices. But
his cook, Alfonso Guiseppe Dente, not only brought it back, but discovered
how well it went with cheese (which the Chinese didn't eat), garlic, and
basil. Finally, he invented the wicker-wrapped bottle (fiasco) (really!)
for cheap wine and the trattoria to eat and drink all this.
You have doubts? Pish f*cking tush. I have evidence: gourmands will
realize that perpectly prepared pasta is still called "Al Dente" in his
honor.
Phil "But he didn't use tomatoes!" Gustafson
--
|play: ph...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG; {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil |
|work: phil@gsi; sgi!gsi!phil | Phil Gustafson |
|Widely recognized as a thoughtful poster of reliable information since 1985|
| Plagiarize! Why do you think the good Lord magiarize? |
Tim Mefford
>
> Also, one of the Teeming Millions claims that tomatoes weren't introduced
> until after the conquest on Mexico in 1522 (by which time, I'm pretty
> sure, Columbus was fairly dead).
>
In the category of oft repeated details, not only were tomatoes
not introduced until recently, in much of northern Europe they were
initially considered to be poisonous.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tim Mefford | "If you pick up a starving dog and make
| him prosperous, he will not bite you.
t...@physics.orst.edu | This is the principal difference between
| a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
________________________________________________________________
Caroline E. Bryan
>
> No, true. All of tomatoes, potatoes, corn (in the US sense, also known
> as maize or 'sweet corn'), and hot peppers (the capiscum family -- not
> to be confused with peppercorns, such as black pepper) were New World
> plants, unknown in Europe/Asia/Africa/Australia until some time after
> other, so presumably there is some ancient common ancestor ... which evolved
> in the Americas. Not sure of the status of 'sweet' or 'bell' peppers, but I
I find Mr. Smee's uncertainty a tad puzzling, considering the point of origin
of his post: a British cookbook I own calls "sweet" or "bell" peppers
"capsicums", and hot peppers "peppers". The cookbook might be using a re-
gionalism, of course (like, London's? ;o) ).
Potatoes (Solanum tuberosum), tomatos (Lycopersicon esculentum), red pepper
(Capsicum frutescens, "which comes in several varieties such as the sweet
pepper, cayenne, etc."*), tobacco (Nicotiana tabacum), and deadly nightshade
(Atropa belladonna) are all members of the Solanaceae family, so ALL FOUR
American natives are rather close relatives, and not vague at all. Solana-
ceae are not exclusively native to the Americas; deadly nightshade is native
to Europe. It and tobacco are poisonous in all their parts; potato and toma-
to stems and leaves are poisonous; sweet and hot peppers are not poisonous.
The close resemblance of the tomato flowers to the nightshade flowers gave
rise to the belief that tomatos were poisonous; it took a couple of decades
of public tomato eating on courthouse steps to convince people that they were
edible.
Corn/maize is Zea mays of the Graminaceae family (a grass), and is not
related to the solanaceae.
* Webster's New World Dictionary
Carrie "an American tomato" Bryan c...@dbrus.unify.com x6244
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Test everything; retain what is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Montykins
> But they were long residents of Egypt, and had adopted many Egyptian
>customs, like marrying your brother/sister.
>
Gosh! I don't even _have_ a brother/sister! Those ancient Egyptians
sure were inventive . . .
-Paul "Monty" Ashley
(And I'm not AT ALL interested about how "long residents" they
were, either.)
--
"Right after I graduate, I'm gonna sit | pas...@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
in a tree, cut the soles off my shoes, | [Not a UCSD employee]
and learn to play the flute!" |
Kati Norris
> scouts, lost the hearing in one ear when a grain of rice flung during her
> wedding flew into her ear and damaged it.
>
> anybody else remember that one?
In the latest GS handbook, it says that at 25 she developed an earache.
Her doctor told her not to treat it with silver nitrate, but she did. She
lost her hearing in that ear.
A year later, on her wedding day, a grain of rice fell into her ear. The
doctors weren't able to help her, and so she ended up totally deaf in that
ear.
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
xcluud!glnserv!katin =*= Kati Norris; Houston, Texas USA
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Charles Lasner
I assume that eventually these were both introduced into Western Europe at
roughly the same time/era. I don't know much French, but isn't the French
word for potato roughly translated as ground tomato (or the other way around,
not sure which)?
cjl
ralph.moonen
Nope, potato is "pomme de terre" which means 'apple from the ground' as in
the dutch "aardappel" which means the same....
--Ralph Moonen
--rmo...@hvlpa.att.com
la...@duphy4.physics.drexel.edu
> In article <20...@dog.ee.lbl.gov> twc...@lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
>>
>>Premise: Italians invented pasta.
>>
>>1st Try: No, Marco Polo brought it back from China (along w/ice cream, etc.)
>>
>>2nd Try: No, Marco Polo did not bring it back from China and despite great
>> odds, the Italians invented it themselves.
>>
>>Any idea, AFU revisionist gourmands?
>
>
> Marco Polo could care less about pasta: he was interested in spices. But
> his cook, Alfonso Guiseppe Dente, not only brought it back, but discovered
> how well it went with cheese (which the Chinese didn't eat), garlic, and
> basil. Finally, he invented the wicker-wrapped bottle (fiasco) (really!)
> for cheap wine and the trattoria to eat and drink all this.
>
> You have doubts? Pish f*cking tush. I have evidence: gourmands will
> realize that perpectly prepared pasta is still called "Al Dente" in his
> honor.
>
> Phil "But he didn't use tomatoes!" Gustafson
>
and don't forget Al's close friend and culinary partner "Pepe Nero".
--
Drexel University \V --Chuck Lane
----------------->--------*------------<------...@duphy4.hepnet
(215) 895-1545 / \ Particle Physics la...@duphy1.bitnet
FAX: (215) 895-4999 /~~~~~~~~~~~ la...@duphy4.physics.drexel.edu
Cindy Kandolf
>I don't know much French, but isn't the French
>word for potato roughly translated as ground tomato (or the other way around,
>not sure which)?
Close. The French word for potato roughly translates as "earth apple" or
"ground apple". Pomme de terre. Go ahead, flame my spelling. If they'd
spell things like they sound, i'd be able to do it.
(The norskie word for french fries is "pommes frites", which is (so far as
i can figure) French for "fried apples". Gawd i love this language.)
And french fries are actually named that because they are fried in deep
fat, which at one time was called "french frying". The full name was french
fried potatoes, but that takes too much room for fast food menu boards. 8-)
Andrew Holyer
>In article <20...@dog.ee.lbl.gov> twc...@lbl.gov writes:
(talk about headlines....
Can I resist these two (thoroughly apocraphal) english ones:
In the Times, supposedly:
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
And during the last stages of WW2:
ALLIES' PUSH BOTTLES UP GERMAN REAR
(just re-parse that one to see what they meant...)
--
&ndy Holyer, School of Cognitive and | "An alcoholic is a man you don't
Computing Studies, University of Sussex, | like who drinks as much as you
JANET: an...@cogs.sussex.ac.uk | do" --- Dylan Thomas
Mcirvin
>In article <1992Jan28.0...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, ph...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson) writes:
>>
>> You have doubts? Pish f*cking tush. I have evidence: gourmands will
>> realize that perpectly prepared pasta is still called "Al Dente" in his
>> honor.
>
Or Guiseppe Altavanti, inventor of the pedestrian crossing signal.
Matt McIrvin
Norman Soley
In article <1992Jan27.0...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, eg...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes...
>>>
>>>At a recent lecture, a NY Times art critic mentioned that until the
>>>time of columbus, Italians had never laid eyes on a tomato. UL?
>>
>>and Mayans, and their neighbors) until Columbus brought a few back from his
>>first trip...and the rest is history.
>
>tomatoes are a relative of nightshade, or some other plant you wouldn't
>want to serve your friends. When Columbus reported that, yes, you could
>eat them and live, marinara sauce was invented.
Never heard that. I've recently read a history of the development of pizza
that included a bit about the introduction of the tomatoe. It seems that
eating tomatoes was very novel and fashionable thing to do, like Thai food is
in the US right now.
>Also, the Italians didn't have pasta 'till Marco Polo brought it back
>from China. Traditional dishes aren't that old.
That's false, noodles were developed independently in one of the regions
of what is now Italy. They were possibly unknown in the city-state Marco
Polo was from but they were not exclusively invented in the orient.
The "thin pancake wrapped around some filling" food style seems to be very
widespread and independently developed in a number of cultures and pasta
follows directly from it, just slice up the dough and boil it instead of
frying and you've got noodles. If you've ever made your own pasta you
realize how simple in concept pasta is.
>Potatoes were brought back from the New World (the Irish didn't grow
>them till recently). I believe oranges are a similar import. That
>Orange-flavored chicken in Chinese restaurants probably has a "recent"
>history.
I have some friends who are (or were, I haven't seen them in a couple years)
active in the SCA, they dragged me to a couple of their feast days, not a
tomatoe or potato in sight.
--
Norman Soley, Specialist, Professional Software Services, ITC District
Digital Equipment of Canada so...@trooa.enet.dec.com
Opinions expressed are mine alone and do not reflect those of Digital
Equipment Corporation or my cat Marge.
David Esan
>and Mayans, and their neighbors) until Columbus brought a few back from his
>first trip...and the rest is history.
Columbus never met any Aztecs or Mayans on his first trip. He met only
the Indians of the <ta da> Indies. He did not touch on the continent until
later.
Charles Lasner
cjl
Patrick L Humphrey
>>Not. Tomatoes were known only to the New World (specifically, the Aztecs
>>and Mayans, and their neighbors) until Columbus brought a few back from his
>>first trip...and the rest is history.
>
>Columbus never met any Aztecs or Mayans on his first trip. He met only
>the Indians of the <ta da> Indies. He did not touch on the continent until
>later.
True, I admit. It was after Columbus had returned with his tales of the New
World that prompted Pizarro and Cortez and Balboa, among others, to take
what they could from the natives -- and included in their loot was a tomato
or two. (Right era, wrong explorer -- I *hate* it when that happens...)
--
Patrick L. Humphrey (pat...@is.rice.edu) Rice Networking & Computing Systems
+1 713 528-3626 at Rice. 713 776-1541 at home. 713 527-4056 at Willy's Pub.
Support the Second Republic of Texas!
(If at first you don't secede, try, try again...)
Lance Franklin
}> my girl scout handbook said that juliet "daisy" low, the founder of the girl
}> scouts, lost the hearing in one ear when a grain of rice flung during her
}> wedding flew into her ear and damaged it.
}doctors weren't able to help her, and so she ended up totally deaf in that
}ear.
Of course...everybody knows that there's a tiny insect that live in grains
of rice that'll bore right through an eardrum if placed in close proximity.
Only way to stop it...grind up an alka-seltzer, and...
Oh, and have I told you about the small rodents that like to nest
in wedding bouquets?
Lance "Fun at Weddings" Franklin
--
Lance T. Franklin +----------------------------------------------+
(l...@ncmicro.lonestar.org) | "You want I should bop you with this here |
NC Microproducts, Inc. | Lollipop?!?" The Fat Fury |
Richardson, Texas +----------------------------------------------+
Stephanie da Silva
>
> translated as ground tomato (or the other way around, not sure which)?
The French word for potato is "pomme de terre."
Literally translates to "earth apple."
--
Stephanie da Silva Taronga Park * Houston, Texas
ari...@taronga.com 568-0480 568-1032
"When you get paid to watch cartoons -- life is not
bad... life is good!" -- Tad Stones
Caroline E. Bryan
Now that the original post has come around again, it comes to mind that Sir
Walter Raleigh introduced the potato to Elizabeth the Great's court. That
puts the intro of the potato to Europe at around 1600 A.D. I don't know who
introduced the tomato.
Carrie "couch earth-apple" Bryan c...@dbrus.unify.com x6244 ----+
| "The Americans call me by value, and the Europeans call me by name." |
| - Niklaus Wirth |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Elizabeth G. Levy
>
>And during the last stages of WW2:
>
>ALLIES' PUSH BOTTLES UP GERMAN REAR
Well, the military does have lots of sexual overtones. During the
Gulf War, for instance, it'd've quite proper to say that Schwarzkopf
thrust into the Iraqi rear. Phallic shaped cruise missiles, too.
Oh, and that video tape of the pilot stuffing that missile right
--
Cheng-Jih Chen using Liz's account. Back in the land of snow & stress...
IC...@asuacad.bitnet
says:
>
>(This month's 'Smithsonian' magazine has a long article about hot
>peppers. Don't know where you can get it other than by subscription,
>though.)
>
And the October issue has an interesting article on potatoes (yes, it is).
Loyd Means
Phoenix AZ
Jack Campin
> And during the last stages of WW2:
> ALLIES' PUSH BOTTLES UP GERMAN REAR
Not quite right. This is cited in M.J. Cresswell's "Logic and Language" as
EIGHTH ARMY PUSH BOTTLES UP GERMANS. Cresswell cites his source as a book
called "What the Papers Didn't Mean to Say", I think.
--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6854 work 041 556 1878 home
JANET: ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcsun and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913
INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: ja...@glasgow.uucp
Peter van der Linden
From: ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
> This is cited in M.J. Cresswell's "Logic and Language" as
> EIGHTH ARMY PUSH BOTTLES UP GERMANS. Cresswell cites his source as a book
> called "What the Papers Didn't Mean to Say", I think.
Surely this originally came from a speech of Churchill's?
It sounds like something Churchill might say.
Peter "what are you staring at?" vdL
----------------
Peter van der Linden lin...@eng.sun.com 415 336-6206
One of the few people never to have been offered the crown of Albania.
Paddy Johnson CIRT
>> Also, one of the Teeming Millions claims that tomatoes weren't introduced
>> until after the conquest on Mexico in 1522 (by which time, I'm pretty
>> sure, Columbus was fairly dead).
>>
Spanish 201 from an Irish Spanish instructor at Eastern New Mexico
University (Go Greyhounds). One of the questions on a mid-term was about
the origin of the potato. I answered (correctly) Peru. I received an F
on the exam for answering her "gift" question incorrectly and slandering
the Irish. I produced my archaeology text and showed her the relevant
passage and was told the book was incorrect and to leave her class and
never come back. I was allowed to change sections.
Scott Olt
>Now that the original post has come around again, it comes to mind that Sir
>Walter Raleigh introduced the potato to Elizabeth the Great's court. That
>puts the intro of the potato to Europe at around 1600 A.D. I don't know who
>introduced the tomato.
Hey, Carrie, am I hallutinating, or didn't you describe your ownself as a
"tomato" not too long ago? ;-)
>Carrie "couch earth-apple" Bryan c...@dbrus.unify.com x6244 ----+
--
Scott Olt
s...@uiuc.edu
Elizabeth G. Levy
in the 16th C. makes me wonder what Europeans had for supper
before that. Anyone know?
Bob Morris
Close, but no cigar. The French for Potato is "Pomme de terre" which is
"apple of the Earth" or ground apple. BTW, the French for French Fries is
"Pommes frites" (sp?) or "fried apples".
Bob "not a road apple, that's different" Morris
mor...@anasaz.UUCP
My opinions only, of course...
anasaz!mor...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Donald C. Currie
>>the dutch "aardappel" which means the same....
What's a VARK??? - DeeCee
--
Donald C. Currie -- Portland Public Schools -- Research & Evaluation Dept.
E-mail Address -- d...@redsun.pps.rain.com
"Feeling BUSHwacked? Try the Economy Depressed Card... Don't be homeless
without it!"
David Esan
>Now that the original post has come around again, it comes to mind that Sir
>Walter Raleigh introduced the potato to Elizabeth the Great's court.
Two corrections:
1. It was Sir Francis Drake, who in the good ship "Golden Hind", circumnavigated
the globe and brought the potato back to England.
2. I have never seen Elizabeth I called Elizabeth the Great. (Well, maybe
Essex did, but I don't know where to find that information). I suspects
the Scots wouldn't want to call her great either.
Paul Smee
>In article <1992Jan27....@bristol.ac.uk> P.S...@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>>
>> No, true. All of tomatoes, potatoes, corn (in the US sense, also known
>> as maize or 'sweet corn'), and hot peppers (the capiscum family -- not
>> to be confused with peppercorns, such as black pepper) were New World
>> plants, unknown in Europe/Asia/Africa/Australia until some time after
>> Columbus. And tobacco.... The three are actually vague relatives of each
>> other, so presumably there is some ancient common ancestor ... which evolved
>> in the Americas. Not sure of the status of 'sweet' or 'bell' peppers, but I
>> suspect the same is true of them....
>
>I find Mr. Smee's uncertainty a tad puzzling, considering the point of origin
>of his post: a British cookbook I own calls "sweet" or "bell" peppers
>"capsicums", and hot peppers "peppers". The cookbook might be using a re-
>gionalism, of course (like, London's? ;o) ).
Easily explained, really. I just live here. I'm actually a
transplanted American. While I was aware that hot peppers are in the
capsicum family (which I always mis-spell, by the way), it's not a word
I use in normal day-to-day conversation. And, the produce shop
(greengrocers) that I go to calls them 'peppers', and assumes you can
tell by looking whether they are sweet or hot. (Oh, and when I DO use
a cookbook (or 'cookery book') it's usually an American one we imported.
Ann tends to do the cooking if we are having British specialities. She's
the local.)
--
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
P.S...@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!ukc!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Cindy Kandolf
>All this talk about new and interesting food introduced to Europe
>in the 16th C. makes me wonder what Europeans had for supper
>before that. Anyone know?
Up here they had a lot of porridge, flatbread (ah, flatbread.... the only
food you can eat and eat and still starve to death), vegetables like
turnips, kohlrabi, and carrots, and dried fish, with occasional treats like
meat (more often for folks with big farms, of course). Yucko. It's a wonder
they didn't take one look at their dinner plates and die of boredom.
Oh, people had cheese and butter and such, too, to really spice things up.
Don't know what they ate further south. I suspect the choice of vegetables,
among other things, was a bit more interesting.
Steve Gonzales
>In article <1992Jan28....@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> las...@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>>A related question about tomatoes and potatoes:
>>
>>I assume that eventually these were both introduced into Western Europe at
>>roughly the same time/era. I don't know much French, but isn't the French
>>word for potato roughly translated as ground tomato (or the other way around,
>>not sure which)?
>
>Close, but no cigar. The French for Potato is "Pomme de terre" which is
>"apple of the Earth" or ground apple. BTW, the French for French Fries is
>"Pommes frites" (sp?) or "fried apples".
The French also call french fries "Frites Americain" or
"American Fries"
Michael Brown
There has been some post regard the fact that tomatoes and potatoes
where obtained from the New World. There is a very good book out
that has a chapter on this (_Indian Givers: How the Indians of the
Americas transformed the World_). It discusses the many food items
that have been incorporated into cuisines from around the world.
Some of these items are:
CORN TOMATOES POTATOES PEPPERS PEANUTS various BEANS
AVOCODOS TURKEY and several others I do not remember.
The chapter also mentions the diffuclty in some areas of adopting
some of these items, such as the potato. The rulers of Europe had
to force people to plant and eat them before they became the standard
stable they are today.
And what of the stories of the tomato being 'poisonious'. Someone
has already posted on this, but the book mentioned that there where
some who preached against these new foods because they where not
mentioned in the bible.
Michael Brown
mich...@shark.cse.fau.edu
Ceri Hopkins
>c...@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:
>>>Nope, potato is "pomme de terre" which means 'apple from the ground' as in
>>>the dutch "aardappel" which means the same....
> ^^^^
>What's a VARK??? - DeeCee
It's a pig, hence aardvark means... earth pig. I believe it's from
Afrikaans which of course comes from Dutch some way back. Time for the
experts to step in since I know little or none of either language.
>Donald C. Currie -- Portland Public Schools -- Research & Evaluation Dept.
> E-mail Address -- d...@redsun.pps.rain.com
>"Feeling BUSHwacked? Try the Economy Depressed Card... Don't be homeless
>without it!"
ObF*ckedEconomyStory:
Norman Lamont (Chancellor of the Exchequer, UK) has backtracked from
saying the end of the recession is "just around the corner" since no
one believes him after 8 months of hearing it. However he recently
proclaimed that "all the ingredients for economic recovery are now in
place". A letter from some wit appeared in today's Guardian with the
retort "so where's the bloody cook, and who forgot to turn on the
oven?".
Ceri
--
Ceri Hopkins
School of Computer Science C.A.H...@Cs.Bham.Ac.Uk
University of Birmingham Tel. +44-21-414-4766
Peter van der Linden
> [blah blah deleted] Tomatoes were not known in Italy till God was old.
> Absatutely true. Tomatoes are native to the Western Hemisphere.
Umm. Not to be a kill-joy or anything, but Italy is part of the
Western Hemisphere. Sometimes I despair of the geographically-impaired.
Monsignor Peter van der Linden, BfD, OUFF, B.Sc. (1st class Hons), M.S. & Bar
Peter van der Linden lin...@eng.sun.com 415 336-6206
Achtung! Das posting is nicht fur Gefingerpoken und Mittengraben. Is
easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit
spitzensparken. Is especially nicht fur das follow-uppen by Dummkopfen.
am...@vax.oxford.ac.uk
> In article <1...@haleiki.NYC.NY.US> tneff%hal...@UUNET.UU.NET (Tom Neff) writes:
>>In article <20...@dog.ee.lbl.gov> twc...@lbl.gov writes:
> (talk about headlines....
>
> Can I resist these two (thoroughly apocraphal) english ones:
>
> In the Times, supposedly:
>
> FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
>
> And during the last stages of WW2:
>
> ALLIES' PUSH BOTTLES UP GERMAN REAR
>
And don't forget
MONTY FLIES BACK TO FRONT
Ian
Tim Mefford
>Umm. Not to be a kill-joy or anything, but Italy is part of the
>Western Hemisphere. Sometimes I despair of the geographically-impaired.
> Monsignor Peter van der Linden, BfD, OUFF, B.Sc. (1st class Hons), M.S. & Bar
I must be incredibly bored by the fact that quotations from previous
posts are taking more bandwidth than original lines to be arguing about
something arbitrary like this, but, does not the prime meridian sit
west of Italy? In other words, east and west, if it is to be measured
as an absolute, is measured from Greenwich England. Italy is east of
greenwich, and therefore in the eastern hemisphere.
Seeing as little folklore is being discussed, I will bring up a topic
which has spawned as many different lay opinions as any other.
Given a 28 day cycle, how many of those days is a woman capable of getting
pregnant?
I've heard that all houseflies die of cold, predators, or starvation and
that their natural lifespan is unknown, but very long. Evidence?
Research is the king here, I answered this one for myself recently;
what method of execution is employed upon stray dogs in the pound?
Tim
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tim Mefford | "vidi, veni"
t...@physics.orst.edu | -Julius Caesar on Cleopatra
________________________________________________________________
Mr. Damon Kelly; ACS (RJE)
>> [blah blah deleted] Tomatoes were not known in Italy till God was old.
>> Absatutely true. Tomatoes are native to the Western Hemisphere.
>
>Umm. Not to be a kill-joy or anything, but Italy is part of the
>Western Hemisphere. Sometimes I despair of the geographically-impaired.
>
ITALY MOVES WEST OF PRIME MERIDIAN
Experts Link Move With UFO Sightings
"Damn, I should have KNOWN that something strange was afoot when I saw
a miles-long mound of mud move through the Strait of Gibraltar," says a
bystander to the amazing event. "I took a picture of it and sent it
to my cousin in the States. I thought nothing of it!"
Scientists around the world are working hard to find the force
responsible for shifting the shoehorn-shaped peninsula that is the
country of Italy from its former place, Europe, to its current
location, about fifty miles south and east of the U.S. Carolinas.
"So far, we don't have an answer," said a geoscientist. "Who knows,
maybe the same gremlins who created the crop circles in various parts of
the world are involved in this event."
"By God, we'll have REAL pizza now!" commented a Raleigh citizen.
Several North American food chains are reportedly negotiating trade
agreements with the Italian government that would allow the businesses
exclusive rights to import unique Italian eateries to their markets.
"This situation has significantly lowered shipping costs," says a
businessman. "We're happy about that."
Declaring a state of emergency, several members of the U.S. Congress,
lead by Senator Ted Kennedy, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas,
Gary Hart and presidential candidate Bill Clinton immediately traveled
to the orphaned landmass to "assess the situation."
Monsignor Peter van der Linden, BfD, OUFF, B.Sc. (1st class Hons),
M.S., etc., has appointed himself the harbinger of change and is now
traveling to the world's universities, telling everybody who will
listen that Italy has a new place in the world. "Cartographers should
be especially sensitive about this. They MUST get the word out!"
--Damon "Where ARE my new Atlas maps??" Kelly
Cindy Kandolf
>...Italy is part of the
>Western Hemisphere.
Um, Peter, not that i'm trying to sound snipy or anything, but where _did_
your geography book draw the line between the Western and Eastern
Hemispheres? Mine claimed the Prime Meridian and the International Date Line
were the dividers. This puts Italy in the Eastern Hemisphere.
Admittedly, which one you call the Western and which one you call the Eastern
is arbitrary, but i don't think it makes sense to put what gets called the
Middle East and the Far East in the Western Hemisphere 8-)
jen...@triton.unm.edu
[PvdL discusses folklore]
>
>Seeing as little folklore is being discussed, I will bring up a topic
>which has spawned as many different lay opinions as any other.
>
>Given a 28 day cycle, how many of those days is a woman capable of getting
>pregnant?
>
Jenny "Given a 35 day cycle" Ballmann
jen...@triton.unm.edu
Mcirvin
That's surprising, if it's true. Most of the popular mythology associated
with pommes frites in France involves the insatiable hunger for them on
the part of Belgians. Perhaps "frites americains" (americaines?) are
the kind you get at McDonalds?...
They do seem to sell them everywhere in Brussels, but also in Amsterdam.
Maybe it's a Benelux thing.
Matt McIrvin
Norman Soley
>In <zan...@Unify.Com> c...@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:
>Now that the original post has come around again, it comes to mind that Sir
>puts the intro of the potato to Europe at around 1600 A.D. I don't know who
>introduced the tomato.
>
One of the "instant win" lotteries available here recently was called
"Couch Potato" (the aim of the game was to find three matching symbols to
win, there were things like Football, Satellite Dish, Bag of Chips, Remote
Control) anyway the apparent French translation of couch potato was
"Pantoflard", any of you bilingual types know what the H E double hockey
sticks this actually means?
Norm "Enquiring minds want to know" Soley
--
Norman Soley, Specialist, Professional Software Services, ITC District
Digital Equipment of Canada so...@trooa.enet.dec.com
Opinions expressed are mine alone and do not reflect those of Digital
Equipment Corporation or my cat Marge.
Caroline E. Bryan
Multi-talented, that's me.
Carrie "human bean" Bryan c...@dbrus.unify.com x6244 ------+
| "Creativity in programming is to find deep simplicities in a complex |
| process." - Harlan Mills |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Caroline E. Bryan
>>>Nope, potato is "pomme de terre" which means 'apple from the ground' as in
>>>the dutch "aardappel" which means the same....
> ^^^^
>What's a VARK??? - DeeCee
Child, child, what do you think a dictionary's for? Propping up your nose?
Don't they teach kids anything these days? On the first page of the A section
you will find "aardvark", which, the dictionary will say, comes from the Dutch
"aarde", meaning "earth", and "vark", meaning "pig". It will also suggest
that you look at the word "farrow" for another word, related to pigs, that
comes from the same root as "vark". You will find "farrow" on the 9th or so
page of the F section of the same dictionary. Get a dictionary! They aren't
cheap, but using one will prevent you from asking the world brain-dead
questions!
Carrie "literate and proud of it" Bryan c...@dbrus.unify.com x6244
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Life is uncertain. Eat dessert first." - Anon. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Peter van der Linden
varying from ribald remark-passing to earnest requests for
further instruction concerning my remark about Italy being in
the Western Hemisphere, and I am certainly not one to miss an
opportunity to enlighten the teeming thousands (however slow-
witted and illiterate some fraction of them always appear), hence
I am losing no time in stating my full position on the matter,
namely, that the phrase "Western Hemisphere" is normally used in
educated circles (not that I wish to cast aspersions on whatever
circles *you*, dear reader, may be accustomed to revolving in)
to mean the "First World" developed countries of Western Europe,
including therefore Italy and, for example, all of England (and
not merely that portion west of Greenwich -- after all, were we
to chose so arbitrary a delimiter as the Great Circle on
the zero'th meridian to mark the Western Hemisphere, we would be
cutting off not just part of England, but we would also
be eliding one third of the capital city of London itself, a
procedure which surely sounds wrong prima facie and as absurd
as it would be if you tried it), and the United States, yielding
the convention that the phrase refers to a concept rather than an
area of geographically anal precision.
I trust that clarifies matters. Thank you for your attention.
Monsignor Peter van der Linden, BfD, OUFF, B.Sc. (1st class Hons), M.S., & bar.
Phil Gustafson
>My esteemed colleagues of the Internet are having reactions
>varying from ribald remark-passing to earnest requests for
>further instruction concerning my remark about Italy being in
>the Western Hemisphere, and I am certainly not one to miss an
Hmf. Anyone who knows anything knows that right justification
_decreases_ the readability of text on most terminals. Let's do
some unmunging:
>My esteemed colleagues of the Internet are having reactions
>varying from ribald remark-passing to earnest requests for
>further instruction concerning my remark about Italy being in
>the Western Hemisphere, and I am certainly not one to miss an
>opportunity to enlighten the teeming thousands (however slow-
>witted and illiterate some fraction of them always appear), hence
>I am losing no time in stating my full position on the matter,
>namely, that the phrase "Western Hemisphere" is normally used in
>educated circles (not that I wish to cast aspersions on whatever
>circles *you*, dear reader, may be accustomed to revolving in)
>to mean the "First World" developed countries of Western Europe,
>including therefore Italy and, for example, all of England (and
>not merely that portion west of Greenwich -- [and on and on]
>
>I trust that clarifies matters. Thank you for your attention.
>
You're welcome. But my trusted Merriam-Webster puts the Western
Hemisphere "to the west of the Atlantic Ocean". An imagination
that would put Italy on this side of the pond is seriously wopped.
>Monsignor Peter van der Linden, BfD, OUFF, B.Sc. (1st class Hons), M.S., & bar.
>
Pope Phildo I, NPS, BS, ACBL, [etc]
--
|play: ph...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG; {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil |
|work: phil@gsi; sgi!gsi!phil | Phil Gustafson |
|Widely recognized as a thoughtful poster of reliable information since 1985|
| Plagiarize! Why do you think the good Lord magiarize? |
Kate McDonnell
In article <1992Jan31....@engage.pko.dec.com>
sso...@trooa.enet.dec.com (Norman Soley) writes:
>One of the "instant win" lotteries available here recently was called
"Couch Potato" (the aim of the game was to find three matching symbols to
>win, there were things like Football, Satellite Dish, Bag of Chips, Remote
>Control) anyway the apparent French translation of couch potato was
>"Pantoflard", any of you bilingual types know what the H E double hockey
>sticks this actually means?
Given that "pantoufles" are slippers, I suspect that a
"pantoflard" is someone given to mooching around the house in
their slippers - a couch potato, in fact.
Neither Larousse nor Bergeron's dictionary of Quebecois slang has
the word, though.
--
Kate McDonnell
gre...@ozrout.UUCP
(ozrout!gre...@netserv.sobeco.com)
Donald C. Currie
>>What's a VARK??? - DeeCee
>Child, child, what do you think a dictionary's for? Propping up your nose?
>Don't they teach kids anything these days? On the first page of the A section
>you will find "aardvark", which, the dictionary will say, comes from the Dutch
>"aarde", meaning "earth", and "vark", meaning "pig". It will also suggest
>that you look at the word "farrow" for another word, related to pigs, that
>comes from the same root as "vark". You will find "farrow" on the 9th or so
>page of the F section of the same dictionary. Get a dictionary! They aren't
>cheap, but using one will prevent you from asking the world brain-dead
>questions!
Who needs a dictionary when there's a network that spans the planet?!?
- Dee "Duh, how can I look it up if I can't spell it?" Cee
George Robbins
>
> One of the "instant win" lotteries available here recently was called
> "Couch Potato" (the aim of the game was to find three matching symbols to
> win, there were things like Football, Satellite Dish, Bag of Chips, Remote
> Control) anyway the apparent French translation of couch potato was
> "Pantoflard", any of you bilingual types know what the H E double hockey
> sticks this actually means?
I don't have any french dictionary handy, but both Kartofel and Pantofel
are french loanwords in German. Kartofel is potato and is apparently a
regional/dialect word that shows up in a number of languages. Pantofel is
a house-slipper, also used to describe a "domesticated" man (in the sense
of wife-dominated/henpecked). "ard" seems to be a french suffix for "man
of the" in the sense that montagnard means mountain-man.
I haven't a clue whether there is some intentional punning in french or what.
It is worth noting that there *are* several alternate words in french or
used in french speaking areas for potatos and related tubers. High School
french classes do not tell the whole story.
--
George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing: domain: g...@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department phone: 215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
Terry Chan
(Donald C. Currie) writes:
+
+Who needs a dictionary when there's a network that spans the planet?!?
Well, a network can't hold my monitor up at the right height.
+ - Dee "Duh, how can I look it up if I can't spell it?" Cee
Terry "Why is the word 'dictionary' in the dictionary?" Chan
--
================================================================================
INTERNET: twc...@lbl.gov BITNET: twc...@lbl.bitnet
"I got a rock." -- Charlie Brown
Cindy Kandolf
countries is "the North", as opposed to the poorer countries in "the South"
(referring to the fact that most of the developed nations are in the
Northern Hemisphere). However, i think this would include the ex-Pinko
Commie Developed Nations, which were the "Second World" according to the
theory that there were three worlds on one planet. I have heard "the West"
used, also, to refer to the nations who were for Justice and the Democratic
Way of Squishing Pinko Commies. However, none of these expressions tried to
claim that there was an actual, geographical hemisphere involved. This
is the first time i have heard this claim, despite hanging out with more
boring "intellectuals" and pseudo-intellectuals than i care to remember, now.
Also, i think it's perfectly clear that plants are native to a geographical
region rather than an economic region. For these reasons, i still claim
that tomatoes are native to the Western Hemisphere. Those of you who
find your sensibilities offended by this can substitute "the Americas" for
"the Western Hemisphere".
Chris Keane
>All this talk about new and interesting food introduced to Europe
>in the 16th C. makes me wonder what Europeans had for supper
>before that. Anyone know?
McDonalds?
Claudio Calvelli
[...]
> namely, that the phrase "Western Hemisphere" is normally used in
> educated circles (not that I wish to cast aspersions on whatever
> circles *you*, dear reader, may be accustomed to revolving in)
> to mean the "First World" developed countries of Western Europe,
> including therefore Italy and, for example, all of England (and
> not merely that portion west of Greenwich -- after all, were we
Maybe we speak different languages... but I thought that this was
"Western World", while the Eastern/Western Hemisphere was based on
the arbitrary division at Greenwich.
Claudio "It doesn't matter because Scotland is all west of Greenwich" Calvelli
Facts (sorry) Italy extends from ~7 deg east to ~18 deg east, so it's in
the Eastern part of the arbitrary division.
--
Claudio Calvelli - email: c...@dcs.ed.ac.uk - phone: +44-31-650-5165
"Sheesh! This is just my opinion, and may be an UL"
IC...@asuacad.bitnet
Gustafson) says:
>
>In article <kojpff...@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> lin...@adapt.Sun.COM (Peter van r
>de
>Linden) spouts irrelevantly:
>
>>to mean the "First World" developed countries of Western Europe,
>>including therefore Italy and, for example, all of England (and
>>not merely that portion west of Greenwich -- [and on and on]
>>
>>I trust that clarifies matters. Thank you for your attention.
>>
>You're welcome. But my trusted Merriam-Webster puts the Western
>Hemisphere "to the west of the Atlantic Ocean". An imagination
>that would put Italy on this side of the pond is seriously wopped.
>
National Geographic. Among other things, it has insets of the western and
eastern hemispheres. The western hemisphere is primarily the Americas, with
western Africa, Spain, Portugal and the British Isles barely visible. Perhaps
Mr VdL meant "western civilization", rather than "western hemisphere". That,
of course, would also include parts of Asia. I would imagine such mistakes are
fairly commonplace.
Loyd Means
Phoenix AZ
Chris Keane
>Terry "Why is the word 'dictionary' in the dictionary?" Chan
I don't know, but the word "gullible" *isn't*!
bill nelson
>twc...@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
It isn't? Do you even own a dictionary? Try using it.
Bill "Gullible - having the propensity to explode when fed Alkaseltzer" Nelson
----------
Derek Tearne
>
>Umm. Not to be a kill-joy or anything, but Italy is part of the
>Western Hemisphere. Sometimes I despair of the geographically-impaired.
>
And then later...
>My esteemed colleagues of the Internet are having reactions
>varying from ribald remark-passing to earnest requests for
>further instruction concerning my remark about Italy being in
>the Western Hemisphere... [Gibber Gibber...]
Phrases like illiterate etc deleted (Not that we would take offence
as - being illiterate we can't read his posting :-<)
>that the phrase "Western Hemisphere" is normally used in
>educated circles (not that I wish to cast aspersions on whatever
>circles *you*, dear reader, may be accustomed to revolving in)
^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
Ah I get it - :-)
>to mean the "First World" developed countries of Western Europe,
>the convention that the phrase refers to a concept rather than an
>area of geographically anal precision.
>
Ah now we see that he changes his mind. After all we only got upset
because we were called 'geographically-impaired.'
Now it turns out we aren't discussing geography at all. At
least not physical geography. Perhaps social or Human geography.
This Western 'hemisphere' concept you refer to is the 'West' of the
press/literature meaning first world and encompasses *much* more than
half the surface of the earth (if you include some relevant oceans).
Perhaps there is a phrase like Demi-Hemi sphere?
Funny how America is in the 'West' and Russia/pinko commies the 'East'
even though America is directly to the east of russia whereas to the east
the USA there is an enormous Atlantic ocean and much of Europe before we
reach the 'East'.
Perplexing isn't it.
--
Derek Tearne de...@fivegl.co.nz | If yo
rek l .nz | yo
New Zea
and while he wasn't looking the .sig eaters were busy at work
Joseph M Knight
|> In article <kohbts...@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> lin...@adapt.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden) writes:
|> >Umm. Not to be a kill-joy or anything, but Italy is part of the
|> >Western Hemisphere. Sometimes I despair of the geographically-impaired.
|> >
|>
|> starts/finishes?
|> The Northern and Southern are easy as there is a north pole and a
|> NOT north pole ( south ) with an equator between them?
|> Surely the Western hemisphere moves away from you as you get close?
|> Do we use the greenwich meridian? If so does most of western europe
|> suddenly join the eastern bloc - rather than the current reverse
|> trend?
|> Perhaps this is why people rarely refer to the eastern and western
|> hemispheres?
|>
|> Please enlighten me on this point
|>
|>
Being a geography enthusiast, I guess I finally will have to set everyone
"strait" on this point. It seems pretty silly that this has gone on this
long, doesn't it?
Hemisphere: literally, "a half sphere"
Considering that a sphere is a precise geometric construct, perfectly circular,
I would presume a half sphere is equally precise.
Historically, the earth has been divided (arbitrarily) into latitudes and
longitudes, with the Prime Meridian at Greenwich being the baseline for
longitudes. If one were in North America, the longitude would be something
like 96 degrees WEST longitude. If in Italy, something like 10 (or whatever)
degrees EAST longitude. The need to precisely define position relative to
some arbitrary point has led to the precise partitioning of the globe into
hemispheres. Suppose the Royal Observatory was founded in Wyoming. Now suppose
it was founded at the North Pole. Now touch your fingers to your nose and
whisper "abracadabra". See my point?
Travel east to west across the International Date Line (180 longitude, East or
West. Doesn't matter) and you leave the Western Hemisphere and enter the Eastern
Hemisphere. Nifty, eh? Counter-intuitive, eh?
Refering to latitude/longitude, and thusly to hemispheres, is useful only for
navigators or astronomers or the like who need to reference their precise
positions on the earth's surface. Using these terms for geopolitical discussion
is relatively meaningless.
I guess the traditional use of "the East" for Asia, and "the West" for Europe
and North America may have its origins in this system. Maybe "the East" was
started by European explorers for refering to lands east of themselves, and "the
West" eventually came to describe "not the East." Anyone????
/////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
"I recall Central Park in fall, how you tore your dress. What a mess!"
Joseph "McCarty" Knight
Derek Tearne
>Western Hemisphere. Sometimes I despair of the geographically-impaired.
>
Excuse my ignorance but how do you decide where the western hemisphere
starts/finishes?
The Northern and Southern are easy as there is a north pole and a
NOT north pole ( south ) with an equator between them?
Surely the Western hemisphere moves away from you as you get close?
Do we use the greenwich meridian? If so does most of western europe
suddenly join the eastern bloc - rather than the current reverse
trend?
Perhaps this is why people rarely refer to the eastern and western
hemispheres?
Please enlighten me on this point
Derek "Geographically confused" Tearne
Martin Emmerich
>Charles Lasner writes:
>>I don't know much French, but isn't the French
>>word for potato roughly translated as ground tomato (or the other way around,
>>not sure which)?
>Close. The French word for potato roughly translates as "earth apple" or
>"ground apple". Pomme de terre. Go ahead, flame my spelling. If they'd
>spell things like they sound, i'd be able to do it.
In some german regions the old form "erdapfel" is still in use.
In Suedtirol (the northern german speaking part of Italy) you
sometimes still hear "Paradeisapfel" (apple from paradise) for
tomato.
>(The norskie word for french fries is "pommes frites", which is (so far as
>i can figure) French for "fried apples". Gawd i love this language.)
>And french fries are actually named that because they are fried in deep
>fat, which at one time was called "french frying". The full name was french
>fried potatoes, but that takes too much room for fast food menu boards. 8-)
"Pommes frites" or shortly "Pommes" is here in Germany the usual
expression ("einmal Pommes mit Majo, ey"). Many people use only
the short slang form, but on signs "pommes frites" ist still
dominating.
The fun with pommes frites naming is the fact (UL?) that they
were invented in Belgium.
Then there is a german joke or obviously wrong UL on how pommes
frites got their name:
As everybody knows, it was the german emperor Friedrich der
Grosse, called "Der alte Fritz" ("old Fritz") who made big
efforts to introduce the potato as main food. And he was
successful (true, proven). But to raise the acceptance of the
new plant, he invented a meal which he called "pommes de terre
Friedrich" (on all european courts in this aera they spoke french)
but this was too fussy to most people. So they called them
"Pommes Fritz" (the french frites are usually spoken fritz in
german).
--
/|/> / ,--- / Internet address:
/ / _ __-/- o _ /-- __ __ _ __ o _ /_ m...@grmbl.saar.sub.org
/ /_/_(_/(_/(_(_/ ( /___//(_//(_(/_/(_(_(_/ ( or em...@cs.uni-sb.de
======== I've got the : Segmentation violation -- Core dumped blues. ========
Martin Emmerich
>In article <1992Jan27.0...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, eg...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes...
>>>>
>>>>At a recent lecture, a NY Times art critic mentioned that until the
>>>>time of columbus, Italians had never laid eyes on a tomato. UL?
>>>
>>>Not. Tomatoes were known only to the New World (specifically, the Aztecs
>>>and Mayans, and their neighbors) until Columbus brought a few back from his
>>>first trip...and the rest is history.
>>
>>I thought they had tomatoes, but thought they were poisonous, since
>>tomatoes are a relative of nightshade, or some other plant you wouldn't
>>want to serve your friends. When Columbus reported that, yes, you could
>>eat them and live, marinara sauce was invented.
>Never heard that. I've recently read a history of the development of pizza
>that included a bit about the introduction of the tomatoe. It seems that
>eating tomatoes was very novel and fashionable thing to do, like Thai food is
>in the US right now.
No, as I know the tomato was exclusively a New World plant.
The standard pizza (obviously not the "ANSI pizza") originally
was sort of a flat bread, smeared with olive oil on its upper
surface.
The first "official" pizza was the Pizza Margherita, invented to
the honor of princess Margerita. It consisted of tomato,
Mozarella and something green (Pesto?). The inventor just wanted
to put the national colors on it.
>>Also, the Italians didn't have pasta 'till Marco Polo brought it back
>>from China. Traditional dishes aren't that old.
>That's false, noodles were developed independently in one of the regions
>of what is now Italy. They were possibly unknown in the city-state Marco
>Polo was from but they were not exclusively invented in the orient.
Hmm, I only know the standard form (imported from China by
Messer Marco Millione). The only difference between the chinese
glass noodle and their italian descendant is the sort of flour I
think.
When I was the last time in Amsterdam, I ate in a tibetarian
restaurant (highly recommended!). The owner of the restaurant
claimed that the noodle is originally from Tibet. The Chinese
had taken it over when taking over Tibet in former times.
>The "thin pancake wrapped around some filling" food style seems to be very
>widespread and independently developed in a number of cultures and pasta
>follows directly from it, just slice up the dough and boil it instead of
>frying and you've got noodles. If you've ever made your own pasta you
>realize how simple in concept pasta is.
It is simple, yes, and thus probable but all good ULs are somewhat
probable. Probability is _no_ argument.
Neil Townsend
> The rulers of Europe had
>to force people to plant and eat them before they became the standard
>stable they are today.
The French UL (I assume) is that in order to convince the
farmers (paysans) to grow potatoes, the government bought some fields,
told everyone that it was an experiment on behalf of the nobility and
generally made it a `keep out top secret' area. This ensured that all
the local farmers went round at night to nick some to plant for
themselves to find out ...
Neil `It just turned up in my field one morning officer.' Townsend
--
Neil Townsend ne...@uk.ac.ox.robots 273126 O O
\/
Apperently the above represents only my /\ errrrrrr,
opinions and nobody elses. I'm not convinced. / \ that's it.
Chris Keane
>ch...@state.COM.AU (Chris Keane) / 3:12 pm Feb 3, 1992 / writes:
>>twc...@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
>>>Terry "Why is the word 'dictionary' in the dictionary?" Chan
>>I don't know, but the word "gullible" *isn't*!
>It isn't? Do you even own a dictionary? Try using it.
Yes. I use it to prop open the door. Did you mean that I was
supposed to use it too?
Mark Brader
> East or West. Doesn't matter) and you leave the Western Hemisphere
> and enter the Eastern Hemisphere. Nifty, eh? Counter-intuitive, eh?
This would be correct if it didn't mention the International Date Line.
Only part of the Date Line follows the 180th meridian of longitude.
Crossing the Date Line carries its own piece of counterintuitivity, though.
Generally, if you cross a time zone boundary from east to west, the time
goes backward 1 hour for you. But if you cross the Date Line from east
to west, the time goes *forward* 24 hours. If this seems puzzling,
suppose you could travel around the world instantaneously -- then you'd
expect to return to your starting point with no net change in the time.
This is possible because the time change when you cross the Date Line
cancels the sum of all the individual changes from time zone boundaries.
--
Mark Brader "What can be more palpably absurd than the prospect held out
utzoo!sq!msb of locomotives travelling twice as fast as stagecoaches?"
m...@sq.com -- The Quarterly Review (England), March 1825
This article is in the public domain.
Michael A. Covington
why there is such a thing:
Point out that time zones count up 1, 2, 3... 12 hours on one side of
Greenwich, and down -1 -2 -3...-12 hours on the other side.
Naturally, the +12 and -12 time zones are adjacent, and they're 24
hours (= 1 day) apart.
--
===================================================================
Michael A. Covington, Ph.D. | mcov...@uga.cc.uga.edu | N4TMI
Artificial Intelligence Programs | U of Georgia | Athens, GA 30602
===================================================================
Siren
>Crossing the Date Line carries its own piece of counterintuitivity, though.
>Generally, if you cross a time zone boundary from east to west, the time
>goes backward 1 hour for you. But if you cross the Date Line from east
>to west, the time goes *forward* 24 hours. If this seems puzzling,
>suppose you could travel around the world instantaneously -- then you'd
>expect to return to your starting point with no net change in the time.
>This is possible because the time change when you cross the Date Line
>cancels the sum of all the individual changes from time zone boundaries.
Aha, Gotcha! According to your own arithmetic, the delta-t that occurs
as you round the globe would be one hour not zero!
[Of course the time goes forward TWENTY-THREE hours!]
I think the story is that Magellan's crew (minus himself, of course)
discovered that Thursday was not Thursday but Wedsday....
--
####################################
boy...@math.mit.edu, the SIREN
Bob Morris
>Here's how to explain the Intl. Date Line to people who can't fathom
>why there is such a thing:
>
>Point out that time zones count up 1, 2, 3... 12 hours on one side of
>Greenwich, and down -1 -2 -3...-12 hours on the other side.
>
>Naturally, the +12 and -12 time zones are adjacent, and they're 24
>hours (= 1 day) apart.
>
(or West) of Greenwich. (It's in Africa, so you may have missed it :-)
So depending on how you count, you get either -11 and +12 or
-12 and +11 which are adjacent and 23 hours apart. This is almost 1
day, but remember that two adjacent time zones are still one hour apart
(23 hours = 1 day - 1 hour).
Bob "Does anybody know what time it is? Does anybody really care? " Morris
aka mor...@anasaz.UUCP
My opinions only, of course...
anasaz!mor...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
bill nelson
>>suppose you could travel around the world instantaneously -- then you'd
>>expect to return to your starting point with no net change in the time.
>>This is possible because the time change when you cross the Date Line
>>cancels the sum of all the individual changes from time zone boundaries.
>Aha, Gotcha! According to your own arithmetic, the delta-t that occurs
>as you round the globe would be one hour not zero!
>[Of course the time goes forward TWENTY-THREE hours!]
Why, you would cross 24 time zone boundaries - don't forget the IDL.
>I think the story is that Magellan's crew (minus himself, of course)
>discovered that Thursday was not Thursday but Wedsday....
Actually, I think they found that Thursday was actually Friday.
Bill "Follow the sun" Nelson
Terry J. Wood
>bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>>>I don't know, but the word "gullible" *isn't*!
>>It isn't? Do you even own a dictionary? Try using it.
>Yes. I use it to prop open the door. Did you mean that I was
>supposed to use it too?
A fellow came by my office the other day. I asked him if he was looking
for sympathy. He said that, yes, he was! So I handed him my dictionary
and told him to look under "S".
Terry "ABSOLUTELY TRUE" Wood
--
INTERNET: tj...@pitt.edu BITNET: TJW@PITTVMS
"Laugh while you can, Monkey Boy!" - Lord "John" Warfin
"There can be only one!" - The Highlander
"There should have been only one. I want my money back!" - Terry
Mark Brader
[Michael Covington:]
> > Point out that time zones count up 1, 2, 3... 12 hours on one side of
> > Greenwich, and down -1 -2 -3...-12 hours on the other side.
> > Naturally, the +12 and -12 time zones are adjacent, and they're 24
> > hours (= 1 day) apart.
> Close, but no cigar. There is also a time zone that is 0 hours East
> (or West) of Greenwich. (It's in Africa, so you may have missed it :-)
> So depending on how you count, you get either -11 and +12 or
> -12 and +11 which are adjacent and 23 hours apart.
And boy...@math.mit.edu writes:
[Me:]
> > Generally, if you cross a time zone boundary from east to west, the time
> > goes backward 1 hour for you. But if you cross the Date Line from east
> > to west, the time goes *forward* 24 hours. If this seems puzzling,
> > suppose you could travel around the world instantaneously ...
>
> Aha, Gotcha! According to your own arithmetic, the delta-t that occurs
> as you round the globe would be one hour not zero!
> [Of course the time goes forward TWENTY-THREE hours!]
For the moment, let us consider the simplified time zone boundaries that
fall every 15 degrees of longitude. Most time zone maps show these as
the actual boundaries on the oceans, though I don't know whether ships
do commonly observe them or not.
What Mr. Morris and Mr. @math.mit.edu are both forgetting is that these
zones are each *centered* on a multiple of 15 degrees -- the 0 zone is
centered on longitude 0, the +1 and -1 zones are centered on 15 east and
west, and so on. But the International Date Line (again, in the simplified
version) is at longitude 180 -- so it splits the 12-hour zone down the
middle, with half-width -12 and +12 zones on the two sides of it.
Gotcha back.
In the real world, of course, the IDL does *not* follow the 180th meridian
for its full length, and many of the boundaries are nowhere near the "odd
multiples of 7.5 degrees longitude" that the above would suggest. But
there really are places with times 24 hours apart -- and more, in fact.
The following list of extreme time zones was compiled, and posted a week
or two ago to sci.astro, by Joe Dellinger (j...@montebello.soest.hawaii.edu):
| Chatham Islands: +12:45 Southern Winter, +13:45 Southern Summer
| Tonga: +13 year round
| New Zealand: +12 Southern Winter, +13 Southern Summer
| Easternmost Siberia (assuming Russia has gone back to using 1-hour
| advanced time zones again): +12 Northern Winter, +13 Northern Summer
|
| Hawaii: -10 year round
| Midway, Kure, American Samoa: -11 year round
| Kwajalein atoll: -12 year round
Of the first group, all but New Zealand are wholly or partly inside one
or the other of the easterly excursions of the IDL away from the 180th
meridian, but they do not extend so far east as to fall "naturally" into
zone +13. In this context it may be interesting to note that the western
Aleutians extend into a westerly excursion of the IDL and reach into the
"natural" time zone -13, but are in fact, like Hawaii, on -10.
The most bizarre, however, is Kwajalein, which is *west* of the 180th
meridian -- that is, it is in east longitude -- and also west of the IDL,
and yet observes time zone -12 rather than +12. It is in the Marshall
Islands, and the map I have shows the entire island group as observing +12.
(Well, actually it shows -12, but it uses the opposite sign convention
from the usual.)
--
Mark Brader "How diabolically clever: a straightforward message!
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto Only a genius could have thought of that."
utzoo!sq!msb, m...@sq.com -- Maxwell Smart (Agent 86)