Leonardo DaVinci & The Last Supper
sc...@haht.com
be the appropriate forum to ask, but can anyone dispute this with some
evidence?
THE LAST SUPPER
>>Author Unknown
>>
>Leonardo Da Vinci, a noted Italian artist
painted the Last Supper; and the
>time engaged for it's completion was seven
years. The figures representing
>the twelve Apostles and Christ himself were
painted from living persons.
>The life-model for the painting of the figure of
Jesus was chosen first.
>When it was decided that Da Vinci would paint
this great picture, hundreds
>and hundreds of young men were carefully viewed
in an endeavor to find a
>face and personality exhibiting innocence and
beauty, free from the scars
>and signs of dissipation caused by sin.
>>
>Finally, after weeks of laborious search, a
young man nineteen years of
>age, was selected as a model for the portrayal
of Christ. For six months
>DaVinci worked on the production of this leading
character of his famous
>painting.
>>
>During the next six years DaVinci continued his
labors on this sublime work
>of art. One by one fitting persons were chosen
to represent each of the
>eleven Apostles; space being left for the
painting of the figure
>representing Judas Iscariot as the final task of
this masterpiece. This
>was the Apostle, you remember, who betrayed his
Lord for thirty pieces of
>silver, worth in our present day currency $1696.
>>
>For weeks Da Vinci searched for a man with a
hard, callous face, with a
>countenance marked by scars of avarice, deceit,
hypocrisy, and crime; a
>face that would delineate a character who would
betray his best friend.
>>
>After many discouraging experiences in searching
for the type of person
>required to represent Judas, word came to Da
Vinci that a man whose
>appearance fully met his requirements had been
found in a dungeon in Rome,
>sentenced to die for a life of crime and murder.
>>
>Da Vinci made the trip to Rome at once, and this
man was brought out from
>his imprisonment in the dungeon and led out into
the light of the sun.
>There DaVinci saw before him a dark, swarthy
man; his long shaggy and
unkempt hair sprawled over his face, which
betrayed a character of viciousness and
complete ruin. At last the famous painter had
found the person he wanted to
represent the character of Judas in his painting.
>>
>By special permission from the king, this
prisoner was carried to Milan
>where the picture was being painted. For months
he sat before Da Vinci at
>appointed hours each day as the gifted artist
diligently continued his task
>of transmitting, to his painting, this base
character representing the
>traitor and betrayer of our Savior. As he
finished his last stroke, he
>turned to the guards and said, "I have
finished. You may take the
>prisoner away."
>>
>As the guards were leading their prisoner away,
he suddenly broke loose
>from their control and rushed up to Da Vinci,
crying as he did so, "O, Da
>Vinci, look at me! Do you not know who I am?"
Da Vinci, with the trained
>eyes of a great character student, carefully
>scrutinized the man upon whose face he had
constantly gazed for six months
>and replied, "No, I have never seen you in my
life until you were brought
>before me out of the dungeon in Rome."
>>
>Then, lifting his eyes toward heaven, the
prisoner said, "Oh, God, have I
>fallen so low?" Then turning his face to the
painter he cried, "Leonardo
>DaVinci! Look at me again for I am the same man
you painted just seven years
ago as the figure of Christ."
>>
>This is the true story of the painting of The
Last Supper. It teaches so
>strongly the lesson of the effects of right or
wrong thinking on the life of
>an individual. Here was a young man whose
character was so pure,
>unspoiled by the sins of the world, that he
represented a countenance of
>innocence and beauty fit to be used for the
painting of a representation of
>Christ.
But within seven years, following the thoughts of
sin and a life of crime, he was
changed into a perfect picture of the most
traitorous character ever known in the
history of the world.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Bruce Tindall
>I read the following and figure this has to be a legend. This may not
>be the appropriate forum to ask, but can anyone dispute this with some
>evidence?
>
> THE LAST SUPPER
> >>Author Unknown
> >By special permission from the king, this
>prisoner was carried [from Rome] to Milan
And what king might that have been? There was no king of Rome
in Leonardo's lifetime. The Pope was the temporal ruler of the
city and surrounding areas; the actual government of the city was
carried out by deputies appointed by him. No "king".
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Lee Rudolph
>And what king might that have been? There was no king of Rome
>in Leonardo's lifetime. The Pope was the temporal ruler of the
>city and surrounding areas; the actual government of the city was
>carried out by deputies appointed by him. No "king".
And the Sovereign and Military Order was still based in
Jerusalem, Rhodes, and/or Malta, too, I bet.
Lee "no S.M.O. `king'" Rudolph
Dan Drake
> I read the following and figure this has to be a legend. This may not
> be the appropriate forum to ask, but can anyone dispute this with some
> evidence?
>
> ... [snipped really cool UL shocker in which model for Christ turns into model for Judas in seven years.]
The Last Supper is a fresco: painted on plaster while the plaster is
still wet.
Another coup for Leonardo: Da Vinci's slow-drying plaster! Gives you
seven years to paint your masterpiece!
The art experts will have to provide the details on how one paints a
huge fresco like this -- I assume that not all the plaster is laid on
at once -- but I'll bet it' s not a 7-year job, with little holes left
in the plaster to insert the right face when you find it. Any takers?
--
d...@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com
Gerald Belton
>Another coup for Leonardo: Da Vinci's slow-drying plaster! Gives you
>seven years to paint your masterpiece!
>
>The art experts will have to provide the details on how one paints a
>huge fresco like this -- I assume that not all the plaster is laid on
>at once -- but I'll bet it' s not a 7-year job, with little holes left
>in the plaster to insert the right face when you find it. Any takers?
Umm, no.
According to:
http://users.iol.it/kiwi.milano/mue_leon.htm
Leonardo painted the Last Supper between 1495 and 1497.
He used a different technique. Most frescoes were created by dividing
the wall into small sections, plastering each section, painting it,
and going on to the next section.
Leonardo employed a non-traditional technique much like the one
commonly employed to paint on canvas or wood. This allowed him to
paint more than once over the same surface, so that he could retouch
details and achieve his desired end result.
This is one reason the frescoe is in such poor condition. The color
painted on dry plaster did not stick as well as it would on moist
plaster.
Incidentally, while searching for this I found the exact story that
started this thread at:
http://www.revfile.com/SpecialReports/davinci.htm. It starts thusly:
"They say it is a true story. Maybe it is. The fact that the story
appears in an old family heirloom Bible, first published in 1923, may
add credibility to the story's integrity, depending upon one's
personal viewpoint on such matters. The point remains, however, the
story itself is nothing less than remarkable."
Why a book published in 1923 lends credibility to a story set in 1497
is left as an exercise for the reader.
Gerald "it's in a Bible so it must be true" Belton
meow
> The Last Supper is a fresco: painted on plaster while the plaster is
> still wet.
He tried a wacky experiment with this work, using oil on dry plaster.
It began deteriorating almost immediately and today is in rather poor
shape in spite of many years of ongoing restoration efforts.
> Another coup for Leonardo: Da Vinci's slow-drying plaster! Gives you
> seven years to paint your masterpiece!
Only two years. It was painted during 1495-7. (Leonardo did have a
habit of working on things on and off over a period of years, but this
was one of the shorter ones.)
R H Draney
> On Tue, 07 Sep 1999 18:57:38 GMT, d...@dandrake.com (Dan Drake) wrote:
>
> >Another coup for Leonardo: Da Vinci's slow-drying plaster! Gives you
> >seven years to paint your masterpiece!
> >
> >The art experts will have to provide the details on how one paints a
> >huge fresco like this -- I assume that not all the plaster is laid on
> >at once -- but I'll bet it' s not a 7-year job, with little holes left
> >in the plaster to insert the right face when you find it. Any takers?
Unlike the stained-glass version at Forest Lawn in Burbank, where the
artist deliberately left the face of Jesus unfinished....
> Incidentally, while searching for this I found the exact story that
> started this thread at:
> http://www.revfile.com/SpecialReports/davinci.htm. It starts thusly:
>
> "They say it is a true story. Maybe it is. The fact that the story
> appears in an old family heirloom Bible, first published in 1923, may
> add credibility to the story's integrity, depending upon one's
> personal viewpoint on such matters. The point remains, however, the
> story itself is nothing less than remarkable."
Another story I've heard is that Leonardo used his own face for one of the
apostles...one of the two James', I think, or was it Matthew?...anyway, one
of the ones who didn't have any good lines at this particular seder so he
wouldn't be examined as closely as Jesus, Judas and Peter....
R H "oh, I know, you don't like the kangaroo!" Draney
David Hatunen
>not be the appropriate forum to ask, but can anyone dispute this
>with some evidence?
>
>
>
>
> THE LAST SUPPER
> >>Author Unknown
There are several things wrong with this tale, and anyone
reasonably educated ought to at least pick up on them sufficiently
to look this up.
1. The Last Supper is NOT a painting. It is a fresco. It took
DaVinci about four years, 1494-98.
2. At the time Milan was a city-state, nominally a republic. There
was no king, although the Visconti ruled Milan as despots.
3. Rome was the seat of the Papal States, with the Pope
functioning as temporal ruler. There was no king of Rome. The Pope
was a weak temporal ruleer, and the assorted territories comprising
the Papal States tended to ignore the Pope. In any case, the
Visconti and the Pope were not on the friendliest of terms
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
* Daly City California *
******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
Bruce Tindall
>He tried a wacky experiment with this work, using oil on dry plaster.
>It began deteriorating almost immediately and today is in rather poor
>shape in spite of many years of ongoing restoration efforts.
No problem. Salvador Dali made a perfect copy of it, and so we
can see it today in the National Gallery in Washington just as
Leonardo intended it to be seen 500 years ago.
B "all hail the Holy Dodecahedron" T
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Ian A. York
Bruce Tindall <tin...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>No problem. Salvador Dali made a perfect copy of it, and so we
>can see it today in the National Gallery in Washington just as
>Leonardo intended it to be seen 500 years ago.
I heard Leonardo originally intended the disciples to be playing poker.
Ian "knights on black satin" York
--
Ian York (iay...@panix.com) <http://www.panix.com/~iayork/>
"-but as he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a
very respectable Man." -Jane Austen, The History of England
Viv
Dan Drake wrote in message
<1YfR77gdNJ3y-p...@dnai-207-181-236-115.cust.dnai.com>...
:On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:27:09, sc...@haht.com wrote:
:
:> I read the following and figure this has to be a legend. This may not
:> be the appropriate forum to ask, but can anyone dispute this with some
:> evidence?
:> ... [snipped really cool UL shocker in which model for Christ turns into
model for Judas in seven years.]
Just wanted to agree with Dan - this is a gorgeous story and thank you for
posting it. Your instincts as to its legendary character appear sound.
The much nitpicking going on in the rest of the thread shows that others are
enjoying it also.
Welcome to the froup, sculp.
Vivienne "for two-fifty we'll send you a Nofficial AFU name-badge" Smythe
--
_.~:*'*:~Sydney, Australia - Olympics 2000 Construction site.~:*'*:~._
Fight gullibility now: see www.urbanlegends.com
_.~:*'*:~._.~:'*':~._.~:'*':~._.~:'*':~._.~:'*':~._.~:'*':~._~:*'*:~._
Ignorance may be bliss, but it's poor life insurance. -Sheri S. Tepper
KMP
"blank" at least on one side - usually the outside. It can generally be seen
from the inside of the church or chapel. Don't know about Forest Lawn,
although my grandmother once had a picture of the Last Supper from Forest
Lawn, Glendale and Christ's face was in it....
Regards,
--
Kathy
~*~*~*~*~
http://batman.acmecity.com/robin/50
Christopher Biggs
>
> There are several things wrong with this tale, and anyone
> reasonably educated ought to at least pick up on them sufficiently
> to look this up.
>
> 1. The Last Supper is NOT a painting. It is a fresco. It took
> DaVinci about four years, 1494-98.
>
I'll take the bait:
Some guy named Danny wrote:
|
| Main Entry: fres·co
|
| Pronunciation: 'fres-(")kO
|
| Function: noun
|
| Inflected Form(s): plural frescoes
|
| Etymology: Italian, from fresco fresh, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High
| German frisc fresh
|
| Date: 1598
|
| 1 : the art of painting on freshly spread moist lime plaster with water-based p
| igments
| 2 : a painting executed in fresco
| - fresco transitive verb
Do you care to share your theory on how Leonardo kept the plaster wet
for four years? The problem with TLS is that it is *not* a fresco,
and has thus deteriorated badly compared to contemporary frescoes.
cjb.
--
Christopher J Biggs \ ch...@stallion.oz.au \ Vice-Pope Torture & Indulgences
Stallion Technologies\ Brisbane, Australia \ Holy Church of Givashitology
nordfordfnrdfnodfnorfnordnordfordfnrdfnodfnorfnordnordfordfnrdfnodfnorfnordn
Ragnar (no, not THE Ragnar)
Last Supper so it could hang in the National Gallery.
Ragnar
>
>
> No problem. Salvador Dali made a perfect copy of it, and so we
> can see it today in the National Gallery in Washington just as
> Leonardo intended it to be seen 500 years ago.
>
David Hatunen
Christopher Biggs <ch...@stallion.oz.au> wrote:
>hat...@bolt.sonic.net (David Hatunen) moved upon the face of the 'Net
>and spake thusly:
>
>>
>> There are several things wrong with this tale, and anyone
>> reasonably educated ought to at least pick up on them sufficiently
>> to look this up.
>>
>> 1. The Last Supper is NOT a painting. It is a fresco. It took
>> DaVinci about four years, 1494-98.
[definitions deleted]
>Do you care to share your theory on how Leonardo kept the plaster
>wet for four years? The problem with TLS is that it is *not* a
>fresco, and has thus deteriorated badly compared to contemporary
>frescoes.
Every reference I have found so far refers to it as a fresco. But a
bad fresco. Leonardo apparently tried to use untested materials on
the job, leading to the deterioration.
I wass wondering about keeping the plaster fresh myself, but
figured a fresco as large as the last supper could never have been
done while the plaster of the entire area remained wet. I'm not a
frescoist, but I'll assume that the plaster can be applied in small
spaces and worked on.
Norm Soley
> In article <savh9mh...@gweepery.stallion.oz.au>,
> Christopher Biggs <ch...@stallion.oz.au> wrote:
> >Do you care to share your theory on how Leonardo kept the plaster
> >wet for four years? The problem with TLS is that it is *not* a
> >fresco, and has thus deteriorated badly compared to contemporary
> >frescoes.
>
> Every reference I have found so far refers to it as a fresco. But a
> bad fresco. Leonardo apparently tried to use untested materials on
> the job, leading to the deterioration.
>
> I wass wondering about keeping the plaster fresh myself, but
> figured a fresco as large as the last supper could never have been
> done while the plaster of the entire area remained wet. I'm not a
> frescoist, but I'll assume that the plaster can be applied in small
> spaces and worked on.
How long did it take whatshisname to paint the ceiling of the Sistine
Chapel? Years. Fresco painting was done in small bits, one days
worth of painting was plastered at a time, cartoons (literally large
line drawings of the general plan of the painting) were used to lay out
the general areas of the work so following the cartoon lines the painter
would plaster a small area such as a single face then paint it.
TLS was a bit of a hybrid, fresco techniques were used in addition
to use of overpainting with oils.
Swotl3
I thought that was "kings on black velvet."
Sorry, couldn't resist...
Richard "Elvis has left the supper" Muth
Christopher Biggs
>
> Every reference I have found so far refers to it as a fresco. But a
> bad fresco. Leonardo apparently tried to use untested materials on
> the job, leading to the deterioration.
>
> I wass wondering about keeping the plaster fresh myself, but
> figured a fresco as large as the last supper could never have been
> done while the plaster of the entire area remained wet. I'm not a
> frescoist, but I'll assume that the plaster can be applied in small
> spaces and worked on.
There was an article in National Geographic sometime in the 1980s
about the restoration. One of the restorers said that if only he'd
used fresco like everyone else at that time, they wouldn't have such a
horrid restoration job.
The article said that Leonardo painted on dry plaster because of his
well known preference for taking his time on the job.
/---------------------------\
| Christopher is searching |
| Please Wait |
| |
| [ OK ] |
\___________________________/
There were two articles in fact---Nov. 1993 and May 1989. I have both
those issues.
cjb.
--
ch...@stallion.oz.au, when he visits the Real World, is Christopher J. Biggs
Impossible Software Engineering, Stallion Technologies, Brisbane Australia.
I dig PGP, MIME and Rush. Send mail with "Subject: sendpgpkey" for my pubkey
------------------ Power grows out of the barrel of a GNU ------------------
eos...@cybergraphic.com.au
R H Draney <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Gerald Belton wrote:
>
> > Incidentally, while searching for this I found the exact story that
> > started this thread at:
> > http://www.revfile.com/SpecialReports/davinci.htm. It starts
thusly:
> >
> > "They say it is a true story. Maybe it is. The fact that the story
> > appears in an old family heirloom Bible, first published in 1923,
may
> > add credibility to the story's integrity, depending upon one's
> > personal viewpoint on such matters. The point remains, however, the
> > story itself is nothing less than remarkable."
>
> Another story I've heard is that Leonardo used his own face for one
of the
> apostles...one of the two James', I think, or was it
Matthew?...anyway, one
> of the ones who didn't have any good lines at this particular seder
so he
> wouldn't be examined as closely as Jesus, Judas and Peter....
And another one I've heard is a little different...
At the time that Leonardo DaVinci was painting the Last Supper, he was
being sued by a powerful nobleman over some matter. Because of the
man's connections, the court case was decided in his favour. Everybody
knew that Leonardo was working on a painting of Jesus and the
disciples, and Leonardo's possible revenge on his enemy was obvious -
paint him in as Judas, and have his face be the one reviled for
generations as the great betrayer.
Eventually the painting was finished, and the time came for it to be
unveiled. To the amazement of the crowd, there was Leonardo's enemy's
face looking down from the wall. As Jesus.
emma "less poetry, superior moral, equivalent voracity value" osman
natasha
> be the appropriate forum to ask, but can anyone dispute this with some
> evidence?
>
> THE LAST SUPPER
> >>Author Unknown
>space being left for the
> painting of the figure
>representing Judas Iscariot as the final task of
> this masterpiece. This
>was the Apostle, you remember, who betrayed his
> Lord for thirty pieces of
>silver, worth in our present day currency $1696.
It should be: "1696 dollars and 56 cents"
Natasha "inflation" Kasher
Dan Drake
>...
> Eventually the painting was finished, and the time came for it to be
> unveiled. To the amazement of the crowd, there was Leonardo's enemy's
> face looking down from the wall. As Jesus.
>
> emma "less poetry, superior moral, equivalent voracity value" osman
Terrific voracity value. I really ate this one up.
--
d...@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com
pulgao
>I heard Leonardo originally intended the disciples to be playing poker.
He did paint them that way, but they were nude. The same folks who
painted clothes over the nude figures on Michaelangelo's ceiling
painted dogs over the disciples in Leonardo's work.
-- Steve Lopez
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Hangar/5176/index.html
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/chesskamikazes
Brian Scearce
> I'm not a frescoist [...]
Though you would be one if you just moved a few miles north.
--
Brian Scearce b...@best.com
Read, think, (possibly) post -- do not alter this order.