dollar serial question
David Scheidt
looking at them to see if they were brand new, and if they were new,
whether they were consecutively numbered. They're not. They do,
however, they all have the same last three numbers. Three of them are
different only in the fifth digit (A 66645453 A, 66646453 A, and
666457453). I thought this very odd. Actually I still think it very
odd.
--
sig 89
Keith F. Lynch
> I received five very crisp one dollar bills in the mail today.
No, you're supposed to *send* five dollars, and *receive* fifty
thousand. You're running the chain letter in reverse.
> I was looking at them to see if they were brand new, and if they
> were new, whether they were consecutively numbered. They're not.
I've noticed that $20 bills from ATMs often are. That came in handy
once when someone found a dropped $20 in the room and I wondered if
it was mine. It was.
> They do, however, they all have the same last three numbers.
> Three of them are different only in the fifth digit (A 66645453 A,
> 66646453 A, and 666457453). I thought this very odd. Actually I
> still think it very odd.
Maybe they're counterfeit.
Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
danny burstein
>Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
>digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
Grandpa, what's a pay phone?
- But that being said, the "9xxx" _was_ the standard designation
for payphones way back in the daze of One Bell System, It Works.
The key operational reason was that if you tried making
collect calls to it (rememebr collect calls?), which back
then used an operator in the middle, she (they were almost
always "shes" back then) would tell you to stop playing games.
A friend of mine in college in 1975 had parents with a "9xxx"
number on their home phone. She had to make a point of
telling the operator ahead of time that it was a real
residential phone.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
R H Draney
>
>David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> They do, however, they all have the same last three numbers.
>> Three of them are different only in the fifth digit (A 66645453 A,
>> 66646453 A, and 666457453). I thought this very odd. Actually I
>> still think it very odd.
It *is* odd...all three of them are odd...you can tell because you get a
remainder when you divide any of them by two....
>Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
>digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Mike Williams
Perhaps bills are printed in (logical) sheets of 1000. So, for example,
there'd be one sheet containing A 66645000 to A 6645999. A number of
such sheets are stacked before being sliced into individual bills. Once
sliced, you get 1000 stacks of bills, a vertical slice through the
original printed sheets. The bills in each stack are from the same
position on different sheets, and therefore have the same last three
digits.
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
D. Stussy
news:hdarg...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Keith F. Lynch filted:
> >David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> They do, however, they all have the same last three numbers.
> >> Three of them are different only in the fifth digit (A 66645453 A,
> >> 66646453 A, and 666457453). I thought this very odd. Actually I
> >> still think it very odd.
>
> It *is* odd...all three of them are odd...you can tell because you get a
> remainder when you divide any of them by two....
>
> >Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
> >digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
>
> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
Yes; a week ago. There is a single pay phone outside the U.S. Post Office
that serves my location.
R H Draney
>
>"R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>news:hdarg...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Keith F. Lynch filted:
>>
>> >digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
>>
>> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
>
>Yes; a week ago. There is a single pay phone outside the U.S. Post Office
>that serves my location.
Not that I'm doubting you or anything, but I'd like to see a picture...maybe
with a current newspaper's front page in the frame so we know it's not an
archive shot....r
David DeLaney
>David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>> I received five very crisp one dollar bills in the mail today.
>
>No, you're supposed to *send* five dollars, and *receive* fifty
>thousand. You're running the chain letter in reverse.
Note that that massively improves his potential to make at least a little
profit. (I Remember When "Dave Rhodes" was the name on most of them...)
Dave "of course, I also remember before there was spam. But you try to tell
kids these days that, and they don't even look UP from their texting!" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>Keith F. Lynch filted:
>>Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
>>digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
>
>Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
Oh certainly; there's one at the gas station near the foot of this hill I
live on. (Maybe you need to look in the poor section of town?)
Dave
Warren Oates
R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
There's a couple in our little town -- two side-by-each in front of Tim
Horton's, another in front of the LCBO (that's the "state store" to
y'all).
Of course, Bell Canada increased the fees to 50 cents a couple-three
years ago so no one uses them much. I don't really feel like going dpwm
the block and taking a picture of them though, too many rednecks hanging
out in front of Tim's.
They have them in the Kingston General Hospital - I was there about two
years ago, and it's the last time I used one (with a calling card). You
_are_ allowed to use a cel phone in the lobby/elevator areas of KGH, but
the signal was crap in my wing.
Warren "what's a dollar bill?" Oates.
--
Suddenly he realized that he was alone
with a giant halfwit on a dark deserted street.
-- Chester Himes
BillGill
> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
>
>
Yep, there is one around the corner in front of a block of apartments.
I believe there is still one in a shopping center parking lot about
a mile from here. It is set lower than I remember them being, so
you can use it from a car window.
Bill
Tim McDaniel
Mike Williams <nos...@econym.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Perhaps bills are printed in (logical) sheets of 1000. So, for
>example, there'd be one sheet containing A 66645000 to A 6645999. A
>number of such sheets are stacked before being sliced into individual
>bills. Once sliced, you get 1000 stacks of bills, a vertical slice
>through the original printed sheets. The bills in each stack are from
>the same position on different sheets, and therefore have the same
>last three digits.
An interesting hypothesis, but not true, so far as I know. I recently
got several straps of $2 bills. What I found interesting was that
they were *almost all* sequentially numbered: about 5 from the start
of the sequence were transposed to the bottom of the last strap.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Lee Ayrton
> In <hdalte$b46$1...@reader1.panix.com> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>
>>Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
>>digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
>
> Grandpa, what's a pay phone?
>
> - But that being said, the "9xxx" _was_ the standard designation
> for payphones way back in the daze of One Bell System, It Works.
>
> The key operational reason was that if you tried making
> collect calls to it (rememebr collect calls?), which back
> then used an operator in the middle, she (they were almost
> always "shes" back then) would tell you to stop playing games.
>
> A friend of mine in college in 1975 had parents with a "9xxx"
> number on their home phone. She had to make a point of
> telling the operator ahead of time that it was a real
> residential phone.
Canterbury, Connecticut, circa 1970: Most of the "new" phone numbers in
town were 546-9nnn. Folks who had had their phone in town since old
Hector was a pup had 546-6nnn numbers. I don't remember what the number
for The phonebooth in the center of town (by The blinker light) was.
Well into the 1970s the central office serving the area was an
electro-mechanical exchange and the locals knew that you could
dial inter-exchange numbers by simply dialing the last four digits.
These days CT has 4 area codes and everyone who still punches digits by
hand has to enter 10 digits.
Overheard in a cell phone store in MA a skip and a jump from the RI line:
"A lot of people from Rhode Island don't know that you have to dial all 10
digits on a cell phone because they're used to dialing only 7 on their
house phone."
Strobe
>Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
They're still quite common in New York City.
They don't all work, but they do exist.
However, in recent years every second building seems to have sprouted
cellphone antennae. In my suburb, every crossroads is line-of-sight to
at least one antenna, sometimes as many as three.
On another tack, has anyone else seen "live" adverts?
One of our street phone booths boasts an advert for NY Lottery, showing the
amount of the current jackpot - there's a cellphone-type antenna on the top of
the phone booth to update the figure.
D. Stussy
> D. Stussy filted:
> >"R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> >news:hdarg...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >> Keith F. Lynch filted:
> >> >Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
> >> >digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
> >>
> >> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
> >
> >Yes; a week ago. There is a single pay phone outside the U.S. Post
Office
> >that serves my location.
>
> Not that I'm doubting you or anything, but I'd like to see a
picture...maybe
> with a current newspaper's front page in the frame so we know it's not an
> archive shot....r
If you're in Southern California, do a drive-by look. It's the building
that serves 90049 and 90077. Look at the south end of the front of the
building.
Don Freeman
> "R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:hdb6i...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Not that I'm doubting you or anything, but I'd like to see a
> picture...maybe
>> with a current newspaper's front page in the frame so we know it's not an
>> archive shot....r
>
> If you're in Southern California, do a drive-by look. It's the building
> that serves 90049 and 90077. Look at the south end of the front of the
> building.
>
>
So it is up to him to prove your assertion? (Just being nitpicky but
thems the rulez)
--
-Don
John Francis
Google Maps streetview for 200 S Barrington Ave, 20049 shows two payphones.
Hatunen
wrote:
>Keith F. Lynch filted:
>>
>>David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> They do, however, they all have the same last three numbers.
>>> Three of them are different only in the fifth digit (A 66645453 A,
>>> 66646453 A, and 666457453). I thought this very odd. Actually I
>>> still think it very odd.
>
>It *is* odd...all three of them are odd...you can tell because you get a
>remainder when you divide any of them by two....
>
>>Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
>>digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
>
>Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
The ones I see around here seem to be always at a gas station.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
D. Stussy
news:hdcj3i$6pk$1...@reader1.panix.com...
1) I told them where to find it. Although I have no plans to be in its
area, even if I were to take a photo, they'd claim it was some other
location. Therefore, personal viewing is what I directed.
2) I know there's at least one. If Google shows 2, fine.
Mike Williams
>Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
Around here, most of them seem to have been converted into Internet
booths. You can still make phone calls there.
http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/2776/1435644768077283171S600x600Q85.jpg
Ray
> On 9 Nov 2009 20:51:14 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
> wrote:
>>Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
>
> The ones I see around here seem to be always at a gas station.
The only one I know of in my neighborhood is at a gas station.
--
Ray
(remove the Xs to reply)
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Keith F. Lynch filted:
>> David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> They do, however, they all have the same last three numbers.
>>> Three of them are different only in the fifth digit (A 66645453 A,
>>> 66646453 A, and 666457453). I thought this very odd. Actually I
>>> still think it very odd.
>
> It *is* odd...all three of them are odd...you can tell because you get a
> remainder when you divide any of them by two....
>
>> Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
>> digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
>
> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
Not in the last 4 years, because 4 years ago we finally removed the pay
phone from the lower level of the Grange Hall. Oh wait, I remember
seeing a pay phone in a railroad station recently, maybe it was Denver.
Charles
Keith F. Lynch
> R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
There are plenty of pay phones here in the DC area. Not as many as
there used to be, but still plenty. There are several in every Metro
station, both inside and outside the paid area, for instance. And
I've never seen a 7-11 without at least one.
> The ones I see around here seem to be always at a gas station.
Well, it would be strange if they moved around, wouldn't it?
Keith F. Lynch
> On another tack, has anyone else seen "live" adverts? One of our
> street phone booths boasts an advert for NY Lottery, showing the
> amount of the current jackpot - there's a cellphone-type antenna
> on the top of the phone booth to update the figure.
There are plenty of lottery ads in DC Metro stations showing the
current jackpot in large glowing red letters. I don't know if or
how they're kept up to date, but the numbers do change.
They're often blocked by someone standing next to them or leaning
on them to get enough light to read by. The stations are not
brightly lit.
Keith F. Lynch
> Well into the 1970s the central office serving the area was an
> electro-mechanical exchange and the locals knew that you could
> dial inter-exchange numbers by simply dialing the last four digits.
> These days CT has 4 area codes and everyone who still punches digits
> by hand has to enter 10 digits.
That's progress for you. Maybe in a few more years we'll all have to
dial the country code, even when calling a number in our own country.
At least there's not likely to be any space colonization in our
lifetimes, so no need to preface all of the above with a planet code
even when calling your next-door neighbor.
> Overheard in a cell phone store in MA a skip and a jump from the RI
> line: "A lot of people from Rhode Island don't know that you have to
> dial all 10 digits on a cell phone because they're used to dialing
> only 7 on their house phone."
I'm surprised. I thought ten-digit dialing had been mandatory
everywhere in the US for about the past decade.
It used to be that all area codes had zero or one as a middle digit,
and no exchanges did, so the phone system could figure out which you
meant. Now anything goes, so it would have no idea whether you're
done after dialing seven digits or whether three more are still
to come. "Anything goes" of course opens up far more phone numbers:
Cell phones, fax machines, modem lines, etc.
UL?: Originally states with just one area code had a zero in the
middle of their area code and all other states had a one in the
middle of all their area codes. For the purpose of this rule, DC
counts as a state.
UL?: The "most important" cities were given the area codes that
can be dialed most quickly on a rotary phone: 212, New York;
213, Chicago; 312, Los Angeles; etc.
Keith F. Lynch
> Of course, Bell Canada increased the fees to 50 cents a couple-three
> years ago so no one uses them much.
Pay phones have been 50 cents here for several years. But at least
calls to toll-free numbers are free. The owner of the toll-free
number is charged extra for calls from pay phones. This is good
to know if you see any toll-free numbers in spams. Just say, "Your
number was on an opt-in list of people who want long recordings of
street noises on their answering machine. To be removed from our
list, just write your request on a legal-sized sheet of paper, have
it notarized, and submit it into the nearest trash can." Then leave
the phone off the hook and walk away.
> Warren "what's a dollar bill?" Oates.
We in the US get frequent "public service" ads touting dollar coins.
But what are we supposed to do? Refuse change in the form of bills,
and insist on dollar coins? What if, as is likely, the cashier
doesn't have any?
Keith F. Lynch
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> I received five very crisp one dollar bills in the mail today.
>> No, you're supposed to *send* five dollars, and *receive* fifty
>> thousand. You're running the chain letter in reverse.
> Note that that massively improves his potential to make at least a
> little profit.
Not if he starts by sending someone $50,000.
> Dave "of course, I also remember before there was spam. But you try
> to tell kids these days that, and they don't even look UP from their
> texting!" DeLaney
The first spam was in 1978. I didn't get one until 1982, though.
Keith F. Lynch
> D. Stussy filted:
>> Yes; a week ago. There is a single pay phone outside the U.S. Post
>> Office that serves my location.
> Not that I'm doubting you or anything, but I'd like to see a
> picture...maybe with a current newspaper's front page in the frame
> so we know it's not an archive shot....r
Better yet, he could tell you the phone number, and you could try
calling it collect and see if the operator allows it.
I'm skeptical that pay phones are so rare where you are that you're
skeptical that they exist elsewhere. Please submit photos that don't
show any pay phones. Include a current newspaper's front page in the
frame so we know you didn't take the photo before pay phones were
invented. Or provide the phone numbers of the pay phones so we can
call them and get "that number is no longer in service" recordings.
Thank you.
David Harmon
F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote,
>UL?: The "most important" cities were given the area codes that
>can be dialed most quickly on a rotary phone: 212, New York;
>213, Chicago; 312, Los Angeles; etc.
213: Los Angeles.
Warren Oates
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> Pay phones have been 50 cents here for several years. But at least
> calls to toll-free numbers are free. The owner of the toll-free
> number is charged extra for calls from pay phones. This is good
> to know if you see any toll-free numbers in spams. Just say, "Your
> number was on an opt-in list of people who want long recordings of
> street noises on their answering machine. To be removed from our
> list, just write your request on a legal-sized sheet of paper, have
> it notarized, and submit it into the nearest trash can." Then leave
> the phone off the hook and walk away.
I've done that. I missed the OJ Simpson 800 number, but I've dialed a
few spammers. One day I walked from my house to downtown (in Montreal)
and called the same spam number from 4 or so different pay phones, and
just left the receiver on the little metal shelf. Then I got a job.
> We in the US get frequent "public service" ads touting dollar coins.
> But what are we supposed to do? Refuse change in the form of bills,
> and insist on dollar coins? What if, as is likely, the cashier
> doesn't have any?
You've tried the dollar coins a couple of times now, right? Susan B.
Anthony, and then Sacajowea? I've got one of hers. I've also got a
couple of Kennedy half-dollars that a bar I visited in Maine was giving
out as change some years ago, for reasons I've never figured out. Neat
coin -- we haven't had "fifty-cent pieces" (as we say) in circulation
for like 60 years.
Hey, UL time: the original modern Canadian dollar coin was designed
after our classic old silver dollar, had a canoe and voyageurs on the
back (Herself on the front of course), and then Purolator lost the dies
and the thing had to be redesigned. Can't find any references to that.
The other UL was that the two-dollar coin (which is bimetal) fell apart
when it was first introduced. Apparently the Mint has a video debunking
that one. The Mexican ones fell apart ...
Warren "loonies and toonies" Oates.
Tim McDaniel
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>even when calling a number in our own country.
>I'm surprised. I thought ten-digit dialing had been mandatory
>everywhere in the US for about the past decade.
For land lines, not anywhere I've ever lived. I know little about
mobile phones.
>It used to be that all area codes had zero or one as a middle digit,
>and no exchanges did, so the phone system could figure out which you
>meant. Now anything goes, so it would have no idea whether you're
>done after dialing seven digits or whether three more are still to
>come.
The way it tells in central Texas, and the several places that I lived
before, is that 10-digit numbers are prefixed by dialing 1 first, so
if there's no leading 1, it's a 7-digit number.
... and 1 *is* the country code for the US, so on a land line, I have
*always* had to dial the country code to make a long-distance call.
(OK, maybe for when my parents lived in Vienna, Virginia, in the
1980s: I dimly recall that for 202 and nearby 301 you *didn't* dial
1+. But this level of trivial obsolete neepery makes *nt*rst*t*
h*ghw*y n*mb*r*ng look faaaascinating.)
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Tim McDaniel
Warren Oates <warren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>You've tried the dollar coins a couple of times now, right? Susan B.
>Anthony, and then Sacajowea?
There's the Presidential dollars now. I suppose I should feel better
abotu spending them when I despise the man on the front -- at least
I'm getting rid of them.
>I've also got a couple of Kennedy half-dollars that a bar I visited
>in Maine was giving out as change some years ago, for reasons I've
>never figured out.
You've remembered that bar for how long? Sounds like the advertising
worked.
I actually use US $2 notes, $1 coins, and half-dollar coins just for
fun, but I often tell clerks who ask, "When I go to lunch with
co-workers, there's never any question about whether I've paid".
>Neat coin -- we haven't had "fifty-cent pieces" (as we say) in
>circulation for like 60 years.
45, so I've heard. The story I read was that half-dollar coins were
in regular circulation until J. F. Kennedy was killed and they decided
to put his picture on it. As I heard it, there were delays in minting
it, and then they decided to keep the coins as 40% silver when all the
rest were changed in 1964 to mostly copper (as silver prices had risen
to where the value of the silver as metal was higher than the face
value).
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_dollar_(United_States_coin)>
agrees, adding
... The Kennedy half-dollar design, however, continued to be
minted in a 40 percent silver-clad composition from 1965-1970. To
find the value of a half-dollar, multiply the current market price
for silver by 0.36169 for 1964 issues, and by 0.1479 for all
issues 1965 to 1970.
Initially the Kennedy halves were hoarded for sentimental reasons
and because they were recognized as the only precious metal
U.S. coin remaining in circulation. By the time mintage figures
could match normal demand and the coin's composition was changed
to match the newer dimes and quarters in 1971, both businesses and
the public had adapted to a world in which the half dollar did not
generally circulate. Other uses had been found for the
half-dollar section of the cash drawer. People had gotten used to
depending on quarters as the major component of change.
Both in the silver days (<1964) and in the all-clad days (>=1971), the
half-dollar coin weighed as much as two quarters, so there was no
weight saving.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
David DeLaney
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>Maybe in a few more years we'll all have to dial the country code,
>>even when calling a number in our own country.
>...
>>I'm surprised. I thought ten-digit dialing had been mandatory
>>everywhere in the US for about the past decade.
>
>For land lines, not anywhere I've ever lived. I know little about
>mobile phones.
Not everywhere. Many places still have one area code covering a medium-to-
large area (my locale, for example, though WHICH area code it is changed
a decade or so ago). You don't have to add area code until you're trying to
call outside at least your local part of that area.
But there are also many places, mostly high-population ones, that have
multiple area codes all covering the same area, and those _have_ to mandate
ten-digit dialing in the area.
Dave "and so the cell-phone-tower-numbering thread category was born" DeLaney
Alan Follett
<snip>
> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone
> in the last five years?...r
They're still occasionally seen in corridor or lobby areas outside hotel
meeting rooms, though generally just one or two forlorn-looking phones
along a counter obviously designed with fittings for many more.
Alan "they say the lion and the lizard keep the courts..." Follett
David Scheidt
:Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
:>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
:>>Maybe in a few more years we'll all have to dial the country code,
:>>even when calling a number in our own country.
:>...
:>>I'm surprised. I thought ten-digit dialing had been mandatory
:>>everywhere in the US for about the past decade.
:>
:>For land lines, not anywhere I've ever lived. I know little about
:>mobile phones.
:Not everywhere. Many places still have one area code covering a medium-to-
:large area (my locale, for example, though WHICH area code it is changed
:a decade or so ago). You don't have to add area code until you're trying to
:call outside at least your local part of that area.
Annoying to me is the inconsistancy in how this is done. Some places
allow ten digit dialing to anywhere in the country (even for toll
calls). Some places allow eleven digit dialing for anywhere
(including local calls). Others require 11 digits for toll calls, but
require you to dial ten for local calls. I'd like to be able to use
a phone without having to guess.
Where I live, it's not required to dial ten digits for local calls on
land line. Until quite recently, dialing ten digits when only seven
were required would land you at an intercept saying "dial seven digits.
Moron." With cell phones, it's even more complicated. My carrier
allows me to dial seven digit numbers. But if I'm roaming, I can't.
Since I have no way of knowing whether I'm roaming or not (until I get
an intercept that says "we can't complete this call, but we're not
going to tell you what you did wrong, because we're the phone company,
and you're just a moron", it's annoying.
--
sig 19
R H Draney
You apparently missed a phase we went through here, before cellphones had become
ubiquitous and when Arizona was all still one area code...calls to the same
"zone" in the Phoenix area were seven digits and no toll charges applied...calls
to a zone adjacent to your own were also seven digits, and still no toll charges
applied...but if your zones *weren't* adjacent, you had to dial "one" before the
number, for a total of eight digits (area code wasn't required because the whole
state was the same), and it was charged as "long distance"....
When calling local BBS systems, people away from the central "zone A" had to be
aware where the receiving number was located...you wouldn't want to be connected
at 300 baud for an hour or two, tying up your home phone line, and running up
charges the whole time...one BBS in particular had a switching subsystem where
they'd forward your call to any other BBS in their database, thus chaining two
"local intrazone" calls into one...it was called Switchbaud, and its number
happened to spell the word ARSENIC....
(On the original point of this thread, ten-digit dialing within the Phoenix
metropolitan area is only required now when the area codes are different, such
as when I call my house from my cellphone)....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Hatunen
McDaniel) wrote:
>Both in the silver days (<1964) and in the all-clad days (>=1971), the
>half-dollar coin weighed as much as two quarters, so there was no
>weight saving.
Because the old precious metal coins contained precious metal of
that value. I seem to recall something like 25 grams to the
dollar, no matter which coins you had. And that they could be
used for balance weights in a pinch. That was, of course, the
reason why many $1 and $5 notes were engraved "Silver
Certificate".
When I ws young I don't think I ever saw a $1 note that wasn't a
silver certificate. $5 notes might be either silver certificates
or Federal Reserve notes, and there were also some notes in
circulation that were United States Bank Notes.
Ray
> I'm surprised. I thought ten-digit dialing had been mandatory
> everywhere in the US for about the past decade.
>
> It used to be that all area codes had zero or one as a middle digit,
> and no exchanges did, so the phone system could figure out which you
> meant. Now anything goes, so it would have no idea whether you're
> done after dialing seven digits or whether three more are still
> to come. "Anything goes" of course opens up far more phone numbers:
> Cell phones, fax machines, modem lines, etc.
In my neck of the woods I can dial 7 digits within my area code, or 10
digits for local numbers in the surrounding area code, or 11 digits for
LD numbers. I don't know how it figures out when you've finished
dialing; maybe the local area doesn't have any exchanges starting with
the adjacent area code?
Alan J Rosenthal
>But there are also many places, mostly high-population ones, that have
>multiple area codes all covering the same area, and those _have_ to mandate
>ten-digit dialing in the area.
Don't hafta. It doesn't really matter whether the area codes cover the same
geographical area. What matters is whether you can phone a non-"toll-free"
number without a leading '1'. If you can, then you need the area codes
always, now that you can no longer tell an area code from an exchange number.
If you can't, i.e. if a leading '1' is always required for a non-toll-free
call, then the only necessity is that valid toll-free-call exchanges are
not valid toll-free-call area codes. And usually there will be just a few
toll-free-call area codes.
Seven-digit dialling of local calls between area codes used to be common
in NANP, or at least in Bell Canada territory, before the advent of this
ten-digit-dialling fashion we're now immersed in.
Keith F. Lynch
> Until quite recently, dialing ten digits when only seven were
> required would land you at an intercept saying "dial seven digits.
> Moron."
If you think that's bad, I once get a phone company recording that
said, "The number that you dialed is not in service. Please check
the number and die."
> With cell phones, it's even more complicated. My carrier allows me
> to dial seven digit numbers. But if I'm roaming, I can't. Since I
> have no way of knowing whether I'm roaming or not (until I get an
> intercept that says "we can't complete this call, but we're not
> going to tell you what you did wrong, because we're the phone
> company, and you're just a moron", it's annoying.
My understanding is that most cell phone users don't dial (or key in)
numbers, but have their phone remember the most frequently called
numbers. If so, how does this interact with phone numbers that vary
depending on where you are?
Speaking of autodialers, in cleaning out my hall closet to find
the dead mouse that was stinking the place up, I found an ancient
autodialer I had put away there probably more than 30 years ago. It
was the size of a first-generation VCR. It contained a plastic scroll
with spaces for digits. You had to black-in the squares for each of
the digits for each of the 38 phone numbers it could remember. When
you wanted to call a number, an electric motor would scroll the
scroll past electrodes that read the digits and started and stopped
an eletromechanical relay's bouncing open and shut. It has no
electronics at all; it's purely electromechanical.
David Scheidt
:My understanding is that most cell phone users don't dial (or key in)
:numbers, but have their phone remember the most frequently called
:numbers. If so, how does this interact with phone numbers that vary
:depending on where you are?
I keep all my phone book entries in fully expanded form (includin
country code.) That always works. But if I know the number, it's
much faster to dial it directly then it is to find it in a list. Cell
phones have the advantage of receiving the whole digit string in one
go, so they don't have guess how many digits you're dialing.
--
sig 34
Keith F. Lynch
> But there are also many places, mostly high-population ones, that
> have multiple area codes all covering the same area, and those
> _have_ to mandate ten-digit dialing in the area.
In the DC area, 703 (Virginia), 202 (DC), and 301 (Maryland) numbers
have always been local to each other, but ten-digit dialing wasn't
mandatory for local calls in one's own area code until about ten
years ago.
And until about 15 years ago, it wasn't necessary for *any* number
that was a local call in this area, regardless of area code. The
phone company avoided assigning duplicate exchanges within the area.
And any phone in the area could be dialed long distance from outside
the area using any of the three area codes.
So my ISP, Digex, whose voice phone number was (301) 220-2020,
advertised the more memorable (202) 220-2020 instead. People from
outside the area could reach it at that number. People within the
area would just dial 220-2020.
(Digex is long gone. That 301 number now apparently goes to to a
video store.)
R H Draney
>
>David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Until quite recently, dialing ten digits when only seven were
>> required would land you at an intercept saying "dial seven digits.
>> Moron."
>
>If you think that's bad, I once get a phone company recording that
>said, "The number that you dialed is not in service. Please check
>the number and die."
Reminds me of a Robert Palmer record that started skipping on a radio station I
used to listen to...before the DJ realized what was happening and stopped it,
listeners were treated to a minute or so of "face it, you're a dick--face it,
you're a dick--face it, you're a dick---"
Keith F. Lynch
> You've tried the dollar coins a couple of times now, right? Susan
> B. Anthony, and then Sacajowea?
And before them, Eisenhower. And after them, all dead presidents,
in order. According to Wikipedia they're up to the 11th presdident,
James K. Polk, but I've only seen the first two, Washington and Adams.
They're expected to reach Reagan by 2016, unless Carter kicks the bucket
by then, in which case the Gipper might be bumped to the following year.
(Speaking of dead presidents (my favorite kind), next year JFK will
have been dead longer than he was alive. That's already true of FDR.
This won't happen again intil 2037, when it becomes true of LBJ.)
> The other UL was that the two-dollar coin (which is bimetal) fell
> apart when it was first introduced. Apparently the Mint has a video
> debunking that one.
I would think either extreme heat or extreme cold would separate them.
I've heard of people who separate them and reverse the middle section,
though I forget how it was done.
Since 1982 US pennies have been mostly zinc. If you cool them in
liquid nitrogen they can be easily shattered. No other common US
coins can be.
On Medline, I read a report of someone who swallowed pennies.
This caused him to suffer from a copper *deficiency*. (Zinc is
biologically antagonistic to copper.) Sadly, they didn't suggest
treating this deficiency by feeding him older, pure copper, pennies.
I've noticed that British pennies, unlike any US coin, can be
attraced by a magnet. They look like copper. Presumably they're
copper-cladded steel.
Keith F. Lynch
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote,
>> UL?: The "most important" cities were given the area codes that
>> can be dialed most quickly on a rotary phone: 212, New York;
>> 213, Chicago; 312, Los Angeles; etc.
> 213: Los Angeles.
D'oh! I swapped Chicago and LA. Just be glad I'm not an airline pilot.
Nick Spalding
on Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:36:33 +0000 (UTC):
> My understanding is that most cell phone users don't dial (or key in)
> numbers, but have their phone remember the most frequently called
> numbers. If so, how does this interact with phone numbers that vary
> depending on where you are?
I sometimes use my phone overseas, I have relatives in the UK and
France. I have all my local numbers stored as the full international
number, beginning with +353 for Ireland. This causes no problem at
home.
--
Nick Spalding
Des
>
> That's progress for you. Maybe in a few more years we'll all have to
> dial the country code, even when calling a number in our own country.
>
In the US, you do have to dial the country code when calling long
distance. The country code for the US and Canada is _1_.
Thomas Prufer
>Seven-digit dialling of local calls between area codes used to be common
>in NANP, or at least in Bell Canada territory, before the advent of this
>ten-digit-dialling fashion we're now immersed in.
I still have an active six-digit phone number.
Thomas "he said nonchalantly" Prufer
Lee Ayrton
> Keith F. Lynch filted:
>>Has anyone else noticed that pay phones almost always have a middle
>>digit of 9? For instance 555-9123.
>
> Has anyone else *seen* a pay phone in the last five years?...r
Sure. There's still plenty of phone booths (the blue-slab Bell Atlantic
variety, not the all metal with folding door Bell variety) in Rhode Island
with working phones in them.
Hatunen
Rosenthal) wrote:
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>>But there are also many places, mostly high-population ones, that have
>>multiple area codes all covering the same area, and those _have_ to mandate
>>ten-digit dialing in the area.
>
>Don't hafta. It doesn't really matter whether the area codes cover the same
>geographical area. What matters is whether you can phone a non-"toll-free"
>number without a leading '1'. If you can, then you need the area codes
>always, now that you can no longer tell an area code from an exchange number.
It's easy to tell the difference between an area code and an
exchange number: count the digits. Ten digits and the first three
are an area code, seven digits and the first three are an
exchange.
Hatunen
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Warren Oates <warren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> You've tried the dollar coins a couple of times now, right? Susan
>> B. Anthony, and then Sacajowea?
>
>And before them, Eisenhower.
For the youngsters it should be noted that Eisenhower dollars
were the same size as the old silver dollars, while the Susies
and Sackies and the new presidential series are close to a quarte
in size -- too clsoe in size, actually.
Back in the 1950s I used to get twenty silver dollars in change
when I deposited my pay check. I figured that they were so heavy
Iwouldn't be inclined to carry too many for pocket cash. (Try
carryig twenty silver dollars in yor trouser pcoket sometime). Of
course, back then I could tek a date our for a pretty decent meal
for both of us for five dollars.
>And after them, all dead presidents,
>in order. According to Wikipedia they're up to the 11th presdident,
>James K. Polk, but I've only seen the first two, Washington and Adams.
>They're expected to reach Reagan by 2016, unless Carter kicks the bucket
>by then, in which case the Gipper might be bumped to the following year.
>
>(Speaking of dead presidents (my favorite kind), next year JFK will
>have been dead longer than he was alive. That's already true of FDR.
>This won't happen again intil 2037, when it becomes true of LBJ.)
>
>> The other UL was that the two-dollar coin (which is bimetal) fell
>> apart when it was first introduced. Apparently the Mint has a video
>> debunking that one.
>
>I would think either extreme heat or extreme cold would separate them.
>I've heard of people who separate them and reverse the middle section,
>though I forget how it was done.
>
>Since 1982 US pennies have been mostly zinc. If you cool them in
>liquid nitrogen they can be easily shattered. No other common US
>coins can be.
>
>On Medline, I read a report of someone who swallowed pennies.
>This caused him to suffer from a copper *deficiency*. (Zinc is
>biologically antagonistic to copper.) Sadly, they didn't suggest
>treating this deficiency by feeding him older, pure copper, pennies.
>
>I've noticed that British pennies, unlike any US coin, can be
>attraced by a magnet.
1943 US pennies could be attracted by a magnet, as could some
nickels of the time. This is a distinct childhood memory for me.
I used to have a jar of pennies that had some 1943 pennies in it,
butthe 1943 pennies would rust. I don't suppose the constant
contact with copper pennies helped much, altohugh I don't recall
which way the iron-copper reaction goes.
R H Draney
>
>Back in the 1950s I used to get twenty silver dollars in change
>when I deposited my pay check. I figured that they were so heavy
>Iwouldn't be inclined to carry too many for pocket cash. (Try
>carryig twenty silver dollars in yor trouser pcoket sometime). Of
>course, back then I could tek a date our for a pretty decent meal
>for both of us for five dollars.
After which you'd stand up and she'd say "is that fifteen silver dollars in your
pocket or are you just...?"
David DeLaney
>fl...@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) wrote:
>>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>>>But there are also many places, mostly high-population ones, that have
>>>multiple area codes all covering the same area, and those _have_ to mandate
>>>ten-digit dialing in the area.
>>
>>Don't hafta. It doesn't really matter whether the area codes cover the same
>>geographical area. What matters is whether you can phone a non-"toll-free"
>>number without a leading '1'. If you can, then you need the area codes
>>always, now that you can no longer tell an area code from an exchange number.
>
>It's easy to tell the difference between an area code and an
>exchange number: count the digits. Ten digits and the first three
>are an area code, seven digits and the first three are an exchange.
This doesn't help the exchanges that are parsing the phone number as it
comes through, though, because they never know if you're DONE dialing yet. If
the _last_ three were special, it would.
Dave "reverse Arabic notation" DeLaney
Tim McDaniel
Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:25:06 +0000 (UTC), tm...@panix.com (Tim
>McDaniel) wrote:
>
>>Both in the silver days (<1964) and in the all-clad days (>=1971),
>>the half-dollar coin weighed as much as two quarters, so there was
>>no weight saving.
>
>Because the old precious metal coins contained precious metal of
>that value.
No, they didn't. That is, they contained silver, but for decades the
face value exceeded the metal's value, just like today.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinage_Act_of_1873>
"The Fourth Coinage Act was enacted by the United States Congress in
1873 and embraced the gold standard and de-monetized silver. ...
The USA did not actually adopt the gold standard 'de jure' until the
year 1900 ..."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar#Silver_and_gold_standards>
says that the 1900 act "defined the dollar as 23.22 grains (1.505 g)
of gold, equivalent to setting the price of 1 troy ounce of gold at
$20.67."
So silver's price floated freely. I already noted that the price of
silver began to exceed the face value of the coins in the early 1960s
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_certificates> says that it was
at $1.29 in 1960.) The flip side of the coin was that the value of
the silver had (at least since 1900 and probably before) been less.
>I seem to recall something like 25 grams to the dollar, no matter
>which coins you had.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_coin_(United_States)>:
8.100 g (0.260 troy oz)
>And that they could be used for balance weights in a pinch. That was,
>of course, the reason why many $1 and $5 notes were engraved "Silver
>Certificate".
Have you been possessed by the ghost of Paul Harvey? It was a
compromise sop towards the silver and monetary expansion interests to
issue paper money backed by (purchased) silver.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_certificates>
Yes, I've relied a lot of Wikipedia. The articles I've seen look a
priori like low bogosity, except for some of the older history in
"Silver certificate". They agree with what I've read elsewhere in the
parts where they overlap.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Warren Oates
Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
> For the youngsters it should be noted that Eisenhower dollars
> were the same size as the old silver dollars, while the Susies
> and Sackies and the new presidential series are close to a quarte
> in size -- too clsoe in size, actually.
I guess when I only mentioned the two lady-dollars, I wasn't really
thinking about "silver dollar" type coins. Even in Canada we make a
distinction between the old silver dollars and what we now call a
"dollar coin." There were always silver dollars, you could always go to
a bank and get them for a buck each, and they were always legal tender,
but no one ever spent them much, except for eccentrics and
Newfoundlanders. Like I said, the Cdn silver dollar had a canoe with
voyeurs on the back.
Liz Megerle
Like I said, the Cdn silver dollar had a canoe with
> voyeurs on the back.
Spledding chuckker get you?
Liz "ag" M.
Keith F. Lynch
> Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
>> For the youngsters it should be noted that Eisenhower dollars were
>> the same size as the old silver dollars, while the Susies and
>> Sackies and the new presidential series are close to a quarte in
>> size -- too clsoe in size, actually.
> I guess when I only mentioned the two lady-dollars, I wasn't really
> thinking about "silver dollar" type coins.
The Eisenhower dollars weren't silver.
Keith F. Lynch
> It's easy to tell the difference between an area code and an
> exchange number: count the digits. Ten digits and the first three
> are an area code, seven digits and the first three are an exchange.
It's easy to tell when toast is done: When it starts smoking, it
needs two minutes less.
Telephones -- at least the ones I've used -- don't have an Enter key.
The central office needs to have some way to know whether you're done
dialing the number.
Hatunen
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Warren Oates <warren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> For the youngsters it should be noted that Eisenhower dollars were
>>> the same size as the old silver dollars, while the Susies and
>>> Sackies and the new presidential series are close to a quarte in
>>> size -- too clsoe in size, actually.
>
>> I guess when I only mentioned the two lady-dollars, I wasn't really
>> thinking about "silver dollar" type coins.
>
>The Eisenhower dollars weren't silver.
Due to its size, I have no problem with saying it was a "silver
dollar type" of coin. And it *looks* silver.
Lon
> In article <e7gof5dgtajclhuoa...@4ax.com>,
> Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> For the youngsters it should be noted that Eisenhower dollars
>> were the same size as the old silver dollars, while the Susies
>> and Sackies and the new presidential series are close to a quarte
>> in size -- too clsoe in size, actually.
>
> I guess when I only mentioned the two lady-dollars, I wasn't really
> thinking about "silver dollar" type coins. Even in Canada we make a
> distinction between the old silver dollars and what we now call a
> "dollar coin." There were always silver dollars, you could always go to
> a bank and get them for a buck each, and they were always legal tender,
> but no one ever spent them much, except for eccentrics and
> Newfoundlanders. Like I said, the Cdn silver dollar had a canoe with
> voyeurs on the back.
Until the mid to late 60's, northwest Montana had almost zero paper
dollars. If you wanted any, you had to go to a bank. The cartwheels
were heavy, but nobody seemed to want the more easily transported paper
ones.
Alan J Rosenthal
>On 11 Nov 2009 23:05:01 GMT, fl...@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) wrote:
>>Seven-digit dialling of local calls between area codes used to be common
>>in NANP,
>
Not within NANP, I suspect.
Keith F. Lynch
> Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> writes:
>> I still have an active six-digit phone number.
> Not within NANP, I suspect.
Given that he's posting from Germany, it does seem fairly likely that
he's not in the North American Numbering Plan.
R H Draney
>
>Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
>> It's easy to tell the difference between an area code and an
>> exchange number: count the digits. Ten digits and the first three
>> are an area code, seven digits and the first three are an exchange.
>
>It's easy to tell when toast is done: When it starts smoking, it
>needs two minutes less.
>
>Telephones -- at least the ones I've used -- don't have an Enter key.
>The central office needs to have some way to know whether you're done
>dialing the number.
In the early days of tone-dialing, we were told to append a star to the number
so the phone system would know we were finished dialing and start routing the
call to its destination...without that signal, it would wait some uncomfortable
length of time before deciding it was time to start making the actual
connections....r
Derek Lyons
>You apparently missed a phase we went through here, before cellphones had become
>ubiquitous and when Arizona was all still one area code...calls to the same
>"zone" in the Phoenix area were seven digits and no toll charges applied...calls
>to a zone adjacent to your own were also seven digits, and still no toll charges
>applied...but if your zones *weren't* adjacent, you had to dial "one" before the
>number, for a total of eight digits (area code wasn't required because the whole
>state was the same), and it was charged as "long distance"....
We went through a weird phase here in the county - the north end could
call north end and the central area toll free, but the balance was
(eight digit) toll. The central area could call Bremerton, the north
and south ends toll free. Bremerton could call the central area toll
free. The southern end could call the southern end and central area
toll free. (And the sub base was, very confusingly, centrally located
physically but in the north end by telephone geography, but required a
ten digit number to call into from outside of the northern area.)
Then there was Kingston which had it's own steam-and-hampster powered
phone system (with party lines into the late 80's!) which was long
distance to everywhere in the county.
Which was massively annoying when using a pay phone or a phone not
your own... Trying to keep track of where you were in relation to the
number you were calling. They finally made the whole county one
dialing area in the mid 90's.
>When calling local BBS systems, people away from the central "zone A" had to be
>aware where the receiving number was located...you wouldn't want to be connected
>at 300 baud for an hour or two, tying up your home phone line, and running up
>charges the whole time...
Yep. The central area of the county was the home of the largest and
busiest BBSs in the area.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Thomas Prufer
wrote:
>Given that he's posting from Germany, it does seem fairly likely that
>he's not in the North American Numbering Plan.
Yup. Here, they had differing lengths of phone numbers, so a very small village
might have had three-digit phone numbers, but with a five-digit area code (not
counting the leading zero). And cities would have two-digit area codes. A single
leading zero got you the national level exchange, a double the international
exchange. And some of these old numbers have persisted due to having been in
continuing use for many decades -- such as my six-digit number in a large city.
Thomas Prufer
David Kaye
>That's progress for you. Maybe in a few more years we'll all have to
>dial the country code, even when calling a number in our own country.
Funny, all I have to do on my phone is press the little button in the upper
right and then the first letter or two of my friend and then SEND. So most
calls for me are 3 to 5 presses. That's progress for you...
--
"You're in probably the wickedest, most corrupt city, most
Godless city in America." -- Fr Mullen, "San Francisco"
David Kaye
>For land lines, not anywhere I've ever lived. I know little about
>mobile phones.
I have a mobile (aka cell) phone exclusively. Within my area code I dial 7
digits. Outside I dial 10 (no 1 needed). Some companies and government
agencies offer shorter numbers of 4 or 5 digits. This can be done because
with a cell phone you dial the number first and then press SEND, thus the
equipment doesn't have to invoke a standardized 7-digit sequence.
David Kaye
>This doesn't help the exchanges that are parsing the phone number as it
>comes through, though, because they never know if you're DONE dialing yet. If
>the _last_ three were special, it would.
This is why the 1 prefix became mandatory. The 1 tells the switch to wait for
11 numbers. The lack of 1 tells the switch to wait for 7 numbers.
Prior to the opening of fhe former area code-style numbers (the 3-number codes
with 0 or 1 in the middle) the switch could easily determine a prefix or an
area code. Now that the numbers are used as prefixes they can't, thus the
mandatory 1.
The mandatory 1 is not needed with cell phones due to the fact that the Send
button concludes the dialing string.
David Kaye
>In the early days of tone-dialing, we were told to append a star to the number
>so the phone system would know we were finished dialing and start routing the
>call to its destination...without that signal, it would wait some uncomfortable
>length of time before deciding it was time to start making the actual
>connections....r
The star? It was common practice to use the octothorp (#) as the enter key
and the star (*) as the backspace key.
R H Draney
>
>R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>In the early days of tone-dialing, we were told to append a star to the number
>>so the phone system would know we were finished dialing and start routing the
>>call to its destination...without that signal, it would wait some uncomfortable
>>length of time before deciding it was time to start making the actual
>>connections....r
>
>The star? It was common practice to use the octothorp (#) as the enter key
>and the star (*) as the backspace key.
TWIAVBP....r
Moe Trin
<mvfof5llt1hrbfenm...@4ax.com>, Hatunen wrote:
>(Alan J Rosenthal) wrote:
>> (David DeLaney) writes:
>>> But there are also many places, mostly high-population ones, that
>>> have multiple area codes all covering the same area, and those
>>> _have_ to mandate ten-digit dialing in the area.
[compton ~]$ grep -ic overlay area.codes
105
[compton ~]$ grep "New York" area.codes
212 NY New York City (Manhattan) (Overlays 646 and 917)
347 NY New York City (Bronx | Brooklyn | Queens | Staten Island
(Overlays 718 and 917)
646 NY New York City (Manhattan) (Overlays 212 and 917)
718 NY New York City (Bronx | Brooklyn | Queens | Staten Island
(Overlays 347 and 917)
917 NY New York City ("newer cellulars" overlays 212, 347, 646 and
718)
[compton ~]$
>> Don't hafta. It doesn't really matter whether the area codes cover
>> the same geographical area. What matters is whether you can phone a
>> non-"toll-free" number without a leading '1'. If you can, then you
>> need the area codes always, now that you can no longer tell an area
>> code from an exchange number.
Hmmm... seems there are a lot of Whoosh birds out there this week.
Nope. There's actually a trivial solution and not surprisingly, some
of the telcos have adopted it. Here in Phoenix, my toll-free calling
area covers portions of three area codes - 480, 602, and 623. I dial
7 digits of "my" area code and 10 digits for the other two. Why?
Gee - there aren't any 480-602-xxxx or 480-623-xxxx numbers... nor any
602-480-xxxx or 602-623-xxxx or 623-480-xxxx or 623-602-xxxx numbers.
It's just like no area code or exchange begins with a zero or one...
Damn, that is SOOOO COMPLICATED!!! Maybe I can patent that idea.
>It's easy to tell the difference between an area code and an
>exchange number: count the digits. Ten digits and the first three
>are an area code, seven digits and the first three are an
>exchange.
and how long do you want the switches to wait to be sure you've
dialed all of the digits you're going to dial, and aren't checking
the listing in the phone book to make sure you got it right before
you dial the last digits? You expect people should know they can
pause with two or four digits to go, and NOT three?
Old guy
Keith F. Lynch
> R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> In the early days of tone-dialing, we were told to append a star to
>> the number so the phone system would know we were finished dialing
>> and start routing the call to its destination...without that
>> signal, it would wait some uncomfortable length of time before
>> deciding it was time to start making the actual connections....r
> The star? It was common practice to use the octothorp (#) as the
> enter key and the star (*) as the backspace key.
Either way, I'm skeptical. Early Touch Tone phones didn't have
the # or * keys. They only had the ten digit keys.
Keith F. Lynch
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> That's progress for you. Maybe in a few more years we'll all have
>> to dial the country code, even when calling a number in our own
>> country.
> Funny, all I have to do on my phone is press the little button
> in the upper right and then the first letter or two of my friend
> and then SEND. So most calls for me are 3 to 5 presses. That's
> progress for you...
That's a cell phone? But doesn't the number vary depending on where
you are? Isn't the area code mandatory in some places and forbidden
in others?
David Scheidt
:David Kaye <sfdavi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
:>> That's progress for you. Maybe in a few more years we'll all have
:>> to dial the country code, even when calling a number in our own
:>> country.
:> Funny, all I have to do on my phone is press the little button
:> in the upper right and then the first letter or two of my friend
:> and then SEND. So most calls for me are 3 to 5 presses. That's
:> progress for you...
:That's a cell phone? But doesn't the number vary depending on where
:you are? Isn't the area code mandatory in some places and forbidden
:in others?
Cell phones aren't generally covered by the same rules as land line
phones. the switches have the advantage of receiving the complete
string of dialed digits all at once. So they don't have to worry if
you're dialing a 7 or ten digit number: they know. And cell phone
companies can do all sorts of things with translating the dialed
digits into something else; a company could well offer a feature that
allows you to dial calls in the same area code as the phone's number
with only seven digits, even if you'd have to dial 10 from a land
line.
His phone (and many others, fot that matter) have a handy
autocompletion feature which lets him start typing a name, and it
provides a list of matching contacts. So you don't know what the
stored number that's actually dialed is. It could be an IPv6
address...
--
sig 40
R H Draney
>
>David Kaye <sfdavi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>> In the early days of tone-dialing, we were told to append a star to
>>> the number so the phone system would know we were finished dialing
>>> and start routing the call to its destination...without that
>>> signal, it would wait some uncomfortable length of time before
>>> deciding it was time to start making the actual connections....r
>
>> The star? It was common practice to use the octothorp (#) as the
>> enter key and the star (*) as the backspace key.
>
>Either way, I'm skeptical. Early Touch Tone phones didn't have
>the # or * keys. They only had the ten digit keys.
Push-button != Touch Tone....r
R H Draney
Fifty years on, the time may now be ripe for an updated version of Silverberg's
story "MUgwump 4"....r
Keith F. Lynch
> (And the sub base was, very confusingly, centrally located
> physically but in the north end by telephone geography, but required
> a ten digit number to call into from outside of the northern area.)
Even stranger, the Guantanamo Bay naval base is in Norfolk, Virginia
by telephone geography.
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> I'm surprised. I thought ten-digit dialing had been mandatory
> everywhere in the US for about the past decade.
I could have told you different. We dial only seven digits for local
calls in AC 661. I have a second home in AC 760 and it just went to
an overlay and ten digit dialing.
Mary "I prefer getting a new AC and only dialing seven digits."
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/
Alan J Rosenthal
>This is why the 1 prefix became mandatory. The 1 tells the switch to wait for
>11 numbers. The lack of 1 tells the switch to wait for 7 numbers.
Depends upon your phone company. In Bell Canada territory, the 1 means
"I accept that there are additional charges for this number" (i.e. it's a
"toll call"). "Toll-free" calls are dialed as ten digits with no leading 1.
(Except for 800 numbers, for no apparent reason, which _do_ have the 1.
OTOH, they're not exactly "toll-free" but really a third category.
E.g. they're free from pay phones.)
Lon
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>> That's progress for you. Maybe in a few more years we'll all have to
>> dial the country code, even when calling a number in our own country.
>
> Funny, all I have to do on my phone is press the little button in the upper
> right and then the first letter or two of my friend and then SEND. So most
> calls for me are 3 to 5 presses. That's progress for you...
You have to press *buttons*!? Real physical buttons?
Richard Casady
wrote:
How things have changed in my adult life. Now it looks like the dollar
has reached a breakpoint. Nobody want to loan the gov money the the
national debt has reached critical mass, there is no realistic
expectation the the debt can be paid without desparate measures like
selling the statue of liberty for scrap copper, the washington
monument for burnt lime, shit like that. White house to a Japanese
hotel chain. MWF there is no hope whatever in any area, TWF things are
OK, Sunday I refuse to think at all.
Casady
Warren Oates
Richard Casady <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> How things have changed in my adult life. Now it looks like the dollar
> has reached a breakpoint. Nobody want to loan the gov money the the
> national debt has reached critical mass, there is no realistic
> expectation the the debt can be paid without desparate measures like
> selling the statue of liberty for scrap copper, the washington
> monument for burnt lime, shit like that. White house to a Japanese
> hotel chain. MWF there is no hope whatever in any area, TWF things are
> OK, Sunday I refuse to think at all.
... and now there are ten bloody films nominated for Best Picture. I
mean, really! That's like dealing blackjack from 8 decks of cards,
there's no there there.
--
Very old woody beets will never cook tender.
-- Fannie Farmer
R H Draney
Oscar's greatest WTF moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8EpWYFhnw
And she was nominated again last year!...r
Tim McDaniel
In article <m15pn59ehpqvoo946...@4ax.com>,
Richard Casady <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Nobody want to loan the [US] gov money
Horseshit. "The US Treasury awarded $32.00 billion in four-week bills
at Wednesday's auction at a high rate of 0.060%." [Wall Street Journal
- Feb 17, 2010]
The rate on two-year loans was 0.851%. Ten-year: 3.747%
<http://www.marketwatch.com/story/treasurys-drop-after-data-greek-debt-woes-ease-2010-02-17>
If nobody wanted to lend to the US, the auctions would have failed.
Instead, US government debt is so popular (and therefore there's
enough confidence in the value of the US dollar) that the US
government can borrow at a lower rate than anyone else (so far as I
know). It is still considered the LEAST risky investment among the
alternatives available today.
>the national debt has reached critical mass, there is no realistic
>expectation the the debt can be paid without desparate measures
More horseshit.
<http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/the-spanish-tragedy/>
Government debt as % of GDP for the OECD. The US is a little below
the horribly irresponsible spendthrift doomed governments of Canada
and Germany.
There's handwringing about Greece, but why not Japan, almost twice as
indebted? As he points out in the February 2 post,
<http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/fiscalizing-failure/>
I thought Japan's influence has waned because of its economic
stagnation, its failure to maintain its status as an economic
superpower; I have never heard anyone cite the debt as a central
cause. Bear in mind that so far, at least, Japan has had no
problems financing its deficits.
Btw, it's also not true, as the article asserts, that "Chinese
leadership" is lending much of the money to finance the
U.S. government's spending. I keep trying to tell people this: the
surge in government borrowing has been more than offset by a
plunge in private borrowing, and we're less dependent on foreign
financing than we have been for a long time.
He has a graph in some earlier entry showing US government
borrowing/lending versus private borrowing/lending: they really did
swap places.
He has another graph in another earlier entry, showing the US federal
debt as a percentage of GDP. Nobody in the 1940s or 1950s thought
that the US government was headed for inevitable doom, even though
their federal debt load was much higher than today's.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Richard Casady
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Sadly, they didn't suggest
>treating this deficiency by feeding him older, pure copper, pennies.
Not pure. 95/5 copper/tin bronze.
>
>I've noticed that British pennies, unlike any US coin, can be
>attraced by a magnet. They look like copper. Presumably they're
>copper-cladded steel.
1943 zinc coated steel US cents were still in circulation when I was a
kid.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
David Scheidt
Of course. So do I. (Actually, I think they're in a filing
cabinet.) The steel pennies are one of the very few coins (other than
gold ones) removed from circulation by the US mint. They rusted
badly.
--
sig 64
Hatunen
Back in the late 1950s I had a few in my desk but they rusted.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Keith F. Lynch
> The steel pennies are one of the very few coins (other than gold
> ones) removed from circulation by the US mint. They rusted badly.
Modern copper-coated-zinc US pennies also corrode very badly.
David DeLaney
>> The steel pennies are one of the very few coins (other than gold
>> ones) removed from circulation by the US mint. They rusted badly.
>
>Modern copper-coated-zinc US pennies also corrode very badly.
Shocked, I am SHOCKED to hear these charges!
Dave "such electronegativity!" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
R H Draney
>
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> The steel pennies are one of the very few coins (other than gold
>>> ones) removed from circulation by the US mint. They rusted badly.
>>
>>Modern copper-coated-zinc US pennies also corrode very badly.
>
>Shocked, I am SHOCKED to hear these charges!
>
>Dave "such electronegativity!" DeLaney
And isn't it ionic? (don'cha think?)...r
--
"Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly."
- Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle
Keith F. Lynch
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> Modern copper-coated-zinc US pennies also corrode very badly.
>> Shocked, I am SHOCKED to hear these charges!
>> Dave "such electronegativity!" DeLaney
> And isn't it ionic? (don'cha think?)...r
Speaking of ions: On Friday, the Washington Post Express, a free
daily newspaper distributed at DC Metro stations, had:
Two technologies that tap the tap, have recently made their way into
the residential market after years of use in commercial cleaning.
Electrolyzed water (aka "activated water") has been touted as a
miracle liquid -- strong enough to kill salmonella but pure enough
to drink. Meant to replace all-purpose cleaners, this mixture of
water and salt is zapped with an electric current, charging the ions
to bond with and lift away dirt. In 2009, Active Ion introduced the
Ionator HOM, a hand-held sprayer for home use ($169).
(Also online, at
http://www.expressnightout.com/content/2010/03/spring-cleaning-solutions.php)
This is, of course, utterly bogus, and makes me less likely to read
that paper in the future. If they're wrong on things I know a fair
amount about, how can I trust them on things I know little about?
(I'll forgive them the ungrammatical comma.)
Nick Spalding
on Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:10:24 +0000 (UTC):
It was ever thus. Whenever you read something about a subject you
actually know about it contains obvious errors.
--
Nick Spalding
Ralph Jones
wrote:
[snip]
>> (Also online, at
>> http://www.expressnightout.com/content/2010/03/spring-cleaning-solutions.php)
>>
>> This is, of course, utterly bogus, and makes me less likely to read
>> that paper in the future. If they're wrong on things I know a fair
>> amount about, how can I trust them on things I know little about?
>>
>> (I'll forgive them the ungrammatical comma.)
>
>It was ever thus. Whenever you read something about a subject you
>actually know about it contains obvious errors.
Worse yet, when you're inteviewed by a reporter and then read what he
says you said...
rj
Thomas Prufer
>Worse yet, when you're inteviewed by a reporter and then read what he
>says you said...
I know people that made it a condition of an interview that they would be
allowed to review the article for factual errors before it went to print. The
reporter interviewed and wrote, and was then "out of town", and their editor
printed it with errors anyway, sorry, nothing they could do about that...
Thomas Prufer
Richard Casady
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> David DeLaney filted:
>>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>> Modern copper-coated-zinc US pennies also corrode very badly.
>
>>> Shocked, I am SHOCKED to hear these charges!
>
>>> Dave "such electronegativity!" DeLaney
>
>> And isn't it ionic? (don'cha think?)...r
>
>Speaking of ions: On Friday, the Washington Post Express, a free
>daily newspaper distributed at DC Metro stations, had:
>
> Two technologies that tap the tap, have recently made their way into
> the residential market after years of use in commercial cleaning.
> Electrolyzed water (aka "activated water") has been touted as a
> miracle liquid -- strong enough to kill salmonella but pure enough
> to drink. Meant to replace all-purpose cleaners, this mixture of
> water and salt is zapped with an electric current, charging the ions
> to bond with and lift away dirt. In 2009, Active Ion introduced the
> Ionator HOM, a hand-held sprayer for home use ($169).
>
>(Also online, at
>http://www.expressnightout.com/content/2010/03/spring-cleaning-solutions.php)
>
>This is, of course, utterly bogus, and makes me less likely to read
>that paper in the future. If they're wrong on things I know a fair
>amount about, how can I trust them on things I know little about?
>
>(I'll forgive them the ungrammatical comma.)
Electric current and salt water. We did that when I was a kid.
We attached copper wires to an AC model train transformer,put them in
salt water, and evolved gasses, while dissolving the wires into green
gook.You had hydrogen, oxygen and chlorine gasses for possible
products as well as whatever happened to the sodium and copper. I got
four A's in high school and 1st year college chemistry, and I have no
real idea what went on in any detail. The wires fizzed and turned into
green slime.I seem to recall collecting the fizz in 4ml test tubes and
igniting it, it could have been a mixture of hydrogen with oxygen. I
would expect that the chlorine stayed in the water. I might have found
out more with platinum wires, and maybe some litmus paper. I actually
had an inch long platinum wire in a glass tube holder, but it was too
valuable for flame color and borax bead tests to cut in half for a
couple of electrodes wires that would be tiny, once spliced to longer
copper and waterproofed.
Be that what it may, we wouldn't have expected salt water and juice to
be worth 69 cents let alone $169. How much is a AA battery, and a foot
of wire? [back then the AA's cost a dime, and had for decades,then
they were two for a quarter. Very soon after that, they cost fifteen
cents, and the race was on.]
A D battery has as much juice as two C's, or four AA's. or eight AAA's
and bulk, weight and cost to manufacture are all in proportion. So why
do they generally cost the same at retail?
Casady