Rumbullion

[Charles Wm. Dimmick]

I just learned a new word.
And it's not in my very thick crossword puzzle dictionary.
Heavens be praised for Google.

[Charles Wm. Dimmick]

Apologies. I Maddied this. It was supposed to go to another froup.

Charles

[Lon]

Was this the result of a fat fingered other word and Google offered this
as a substitute?

[Charles Wm. Dimmick]

No. Just a case of tracing word origins, and like cleaning out an attic
getting distracted and sidetracked and ending up somewhere I never
intended. May be possible origin of the word "Rum".

Charles

[Nasti J]

On Jan 25, 5:14 pm, "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdimm...@snet.net> wrote:
> I just learned a new word.

Cubes that make an alcoholic beverage instead of soup?

[R H Draney]

Charles Wm. Dimmick filted:

Well, since we're now making random un-legendary posts to kill time: I've had
something like six blinding muscle cramps in different parts of my body since
6pm...I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat earlier
today....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Mac]

Naw, that's really old vinogel.

[Lon]

Ah yes, the unintended but highly enjoyable walkabout thru unexplored
territory. Almost as much fun on the internet as it is in a vehicle or
shank's mare.

[Lon]

PSSST, Draney. Take the clothes off first, silly.

[Mary Shafer]

On 27 Jan 2012 00:58:39 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
wrote:

> Well, since we're now making random un-legendary posts to kill time: I've had
> something like six blinding muscle cramps in different parts of my body since
> 6pm...I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat earlier
> today....r

I only had one cramp in each leg and one in each foot on Wednesday,
but I know exactly what caused them. I put on a pair of sandals with
a different heel height and went shopping (and walking). This was the
first time in about three months that I changed sandals and my calves
and feet had definitely gotten way too used to the one pair.

Mary "Foot cramps in your sleep are really painful; I didn't know my
feet could go into those shapes."
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://digitalknitter.blogspot.com/

[R H Draney]

Lon filted:

One of the cramps (in my upper *arm*, fer jeezsake!) happened in the act of
trying to take off my shirt....r

[Thomas Prufer]

On 27 Jan 2012 00:58:39 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:

>Well, since we're now making random un-legendary posts to kill time: I've had
>something like six blinding muscle cramps in different parts of my body since
>6pm...I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat earlier
>today....r

"Magnesium" is sposed to take care of that. Not the metal, but some salt
thereof.

And I'm off to post something legendary...


Thomas Prufer

[Strobe]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:47:06 +0100, Thomas Prufer
<prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

>On 27 Jan 2012 00:58:39 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>Well, since we're now making random un-legendary posts to kill time: I've had
>>something like six blinding muscle cramps in different parts of my body since
>>6pm...I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat earlier
>>today....r
>
>"Magnesium" is sposed to take care of that. Not the metal, but some salt
>thereof.

I'd heard it was Potassium that did that magic.
It's found in bananas (cite?), and, oddly enough, in Campbell's cream of tomato
soup,
The soup is easier to keep a stock of, and the warm soup also helps soothe one
back to sleep.

--

Terry V.

[bil...@wildblue.net]

I have no cite but the standard army solution (when I was in jump school) to the "charlie horse" cramps, from the long runs, was to eat bananas.

[R H Draney]

bil...@wildblue.net filted:

>
>I have no cite but the standard army solution (when I was in jump school) to the
>"charlie horse" cramps, from the long runs, was to eat bananas.

For the potassium...which the conventional nutritional chart misstates for
bananas....

I recently laid in a supply of canned coconut water...supposed to be a better
way of replenishing those electrolytes, and since it can be kept in the fridge,
doesn't attract flies....r

[Moe Trin]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article
<g3f9i7l92ih20gr49...@4ax.com>, Strobe wrote:

>Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

>> R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:

>>> Well, since we're now making random un-legendary posts to kill
>>> time: I've had something like six blinding muscle cramps in
>>> different parts of my body since 6pm...I'm thinking it has something
>>> to do with my trip to the laundromat earlier today....r

>> "Magnesium" is sposed to take care of that. Not the metal, but some
>> salt thereof.

Not had much luck there

>I'd heard it was Potassium that did that magic.

Agree

>It's found in bananas (cite?), and, oddly enough, in Campbell's cream
>of tomato soup,

It's found in most vegatables, also meats, fish, chocolate and dried
fruits - bananas are merely the most commonly suggested source, but
any will do. The USDA nutritional guidelines recommend daily amount
is about 3450 milligrams of potassium.

>The soup is easier to keep a stock of, and the warm soup also helps
>soothe one back to sleep.

Actually, I like tomato juice as a source, but most are rather heavily
salted. Campbell's (among others) makes a premium priced "low sodium"
and "sodium free" version, but it's probably easier to make your own.
You may notice the list of ingredients on the container as "tomato juice
(reconstituted from concentrate), salt, preservative". The concentrate
is readily available - it's called "tomato paste". The commercial
product is essentially

12 oz/340 gram can of tomato paste
52 oz/1475 gram water
1 tablespoon/15.6 gram "salt"

That makes 1/2 gallon - adjust the "salt" quantity "to taste". If you
use "NoSalt(r)" (sodium free salt which is potassium chloride), your
cardiologist will be happier, HOWEVER those with diabetes, heart or
kidney disease, or receiving medical treatments should ask their
physician. Some people like to pep up their tomato juice with spices
or Tabasco(tm) sauce - others prefer vodka YMMV

Old guy

[R H Draney]

Moe Trin filted:

>
>Actually, I like tomato juice as a source, but most are rather heavily
>salted. Campbell's (among others) makes a premium priced "low sodium"
>and "sodium free" version, but it's probably easier to make your own.
>You may notice the list of ingredients on the container as "tomato juice
>(reconstituted from concentrate), salt, preservative". The concentrate
>is readily available - it's called "tomato paste". The commercial
>product is essentially
>
> 12 oz/340 gram can of tomato paste
> 52 oz/1475 gram water
> 1 tablespoon/15.6 gram "salt"
>
>That makes 1/2 gallon - adjust the "salt" quantity "to taste". If you
>use "NoSalt(r)" (sodium free salt which is potassium chloride), your
>cardiologist will be happier, HOWEVER those with diabetes, heart or
>kidney disease, or receiving medical treatments should ask their
>physician. Some people like to pep up their tomato juice with spices
>or Tabasco(tm) sauce - others prefer vodka YMMV

Or, I coulda hadda V-8....r

[Ralph Jones]

On 27 Jan 2012 00:58:39 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
wrote:

I take a diuretic for blood pressure, and it has the side effect of
reducing my potassium level, so I also take KCl capsules to maintain
that. If I get behind on the potassium, I get nighttime leg cramps.

rj

[R H Draney]

Ralph Jones filted:

>
>On 27 Jan 2012 00:58:39 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
>wrote:
>>

>>Well, since we're now making random un-legendary posts to kill time: I've had
>>something like six blinding muscle cramps in different parts of my body since
>>6pm...I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat earlier
>>today....r
>
>I take a diuretic for blood pressure, and it has the side effect of
>reducing my potassium level, so I also take KCl capsules to maintain
>that. If I get behind on the potassium, I get nighttime leg cramps.

I have the KCl, but my doctor told me to stop taking it when he took me off the
diuretic (I'm still taking a couple of other things for the blood
pressure)...after the series of cramps I dug out the half-used bottle of
potassium and took one with that night's vitamins, and another the next
morning....r

[Thomas Prufer]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:05:04 -0700, Ralph Jones <ra...@nomeking.com> wrote:

>I take a diuretic for blood pressure, and it has the side effect of
>reducing my potassium level, so I also take KCl capsules to maintain
>that. If I get behind on the potassium, I get nighttime leg cramps.

I think it may be the potassium/magnesium balance. Took magnesium for cramps
once, and it made them worse... I don't recall seeing potassium supplements as
available over-the-counter -- and ISTR something about overdosing being more
harmful than with other salts...

However; this:

>I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat earlier
>today...

is clear evidence laundromats are at fault.


Thomas Prufer

[R H Draney]

Thomas Prufer filted:

>
>>I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat earlier
>>today...
>
>is clear evidence laundromats are at fault.

Half an hour folding clothes at a table a good foot lower than would be
comfortable, shlepping the full hamper up and down the stairs at home, and
across the parking lot at the laundromat, waiting for my clothes to finish while
sitting on those sadist-designed benches...yes, I'd say laundromats are a
contributing factor....r

[Ralph Jones]

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 12:22:36 +0100, Thomas Prufer
<prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:05:04 -0700, Ralph Jones <ra...@nomeking.com> wrote:
>
>>I take a diuretic for blood pressure, and it has the side effect of
>>reducing my potassium level, so I also take KCl capsules to maintain
>>that. If I get behind on the potassium, I get nighttime leg cramps.
>
>I think it may be the potassium/magnesium balance. Took magnesium for cramps
>once, and it made them worse... I don't recall seeing potassium supplements as
>available over-the-counter -- and ISTR something about overdosing being more
>harmful than with other salts...
>

Potassium gluconate is available on the "supplements" shelf
hereabouts, but my KCl is by prescription. My prescribed dose is one
Furosemide (generic Lasix) 40 mg per day and one KCl 10 MEQ .

rj

[Moe Trin]

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article
<o2ski7t6q1n39qj95...@4ax.com>, Thomas Prufer wrote:

>I don't recall seeing potassium supplements as available over-the-counter
> -- and ISTR something about overdosing being more harmful than with
>other salts...

I haven't been paying attention, but I believe it is commonly available
here in a "low" dosage (1/8 to 1/3 the USDA recommended "Daily Values").
When one says "salt" as relating to foods (and a lot more) one is almost
always referring to sodium chloride. I don't know the laws and customs
in Germany, but in the USA, you can purchase alternative salts in most
grocery stores - useful for those on a low sodium diet. An alternative
salt would be something like potassium chloride, or a mixture of sodium
and potassium chlorides. While more expensive that sodium chloride,
they are available under brand names like "LiteSalt" and "NoSalt".
Likewise, the typical "multi-vitamin" that contains minerals will
include potassium - in the form of potassium chloride or potassium
iodide or both, but in low quantities (less than 10% of the USDA DV).

Old guy

[R H Draney]

Ralph Jones filted:

>
>Potassium gluconate is available on the "supplements" shelf
>hereabouts, but my KCl is by prescription. My prescribed dose is one
>Furosemide (generic Lasix) 40 mg per day and one KCl 10 MEQ .

The OTC dosage of potassium gluconate tops out at about one-eleventh the
bioavailability of the prescription KCl....r

[Thomas Prufer]

On 2 Feb 2012 19:35:42 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:

>The OTC dosage of potassium gluconate tops out at about one-eleventh the
>bioavailability of the prescription KCl....r

A quick, nondefinitive glance through wiki suggests that taking too much
magnesium is less dangerous than taking too much potassium.

Anyway, I recall a bicycle biker telling me that the banana was the fruit of
many uses: carbohydrates, potassium, minerals in good proportion for biking, in
a biodegradable wrapper. Also, asa lubricant: a small slice placed between
soleplate and pedal clip stopped an annoying squeak for about seventy miles.



Thomas Prufer

[Thomas Prufer]

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:14:22 -0600, ibup...@painkiller.example.tld.invalid
(Moe Trin) wrote:

>I haven't been paying attention, but I believe it is commonly available
>here in a "low" dosage (1/8 to 1/3 the USDA recommended "Daily Values").
>When one says "salt" as relating to foods (and a lot more) one is almost
>always referring to sodium chloride. I don't know the laws and customs
>in Germany, but in the USA, you can purchase alternative salts in most
>grocery stores - useful for those on a low sodium diet. An alternative
>salt would be something like potassium chloride, or a mixture of sodium
>and potassium chlorides. While more expensive that sodium chloride,
>they are available under brand names like "LiteSalt" and "NoSalt".

Now you mention it, this wouldn't be on the shelves of a supermarket, even a
very large one.

It may be that it would have to be sold in a pharmacy -- anything that isn't a
food but a medicine (but not necessarily a prescription medicine) needs to be
sold there. There's also the Reformhaus, a health food store, and I don't
recall seeing any low-sodium "salt" there, though I doubt I would have
registered it if it had been there.

On the whole, there's a lot less supplements and OTC medication on sale here.

>Likewise, the typical "multi-vitamin" that contains minerals will
>include potassium - in the form of potassium chloride or potassium
>iodide or both, but in low quantities (less than 10% of the USDA DV).

Upthread, I mentioned the results of a quick glance through wiki: I gathered
that too much potassium could cause cardiac muscle trouble, whereas too much
magnesium were less irreversible. I didn't bother to work out how much too much
is in terms of how many KCl supplement pills. But putting it in a combination
supplement would ensure that folks couldn't get too much of an imbalance.


Thomas Prufer

[R H Draney]

Thomas Prufer filted:

>
>Upthread, I mentioned the results of a quick glance through wiki: I gathered
>that too much potassium could cause cardiac muscle trouble, whereas too much
>magnesium were less irreversible. I didn't bother to work out how much too much
>is in terms of how many KCl supplement pills. But putting it in a combination
>supplement would ensure that folks couldn't get too much of an imbalance.

From personal experience: if you're getting a dextrose IV drip and they decide
you also need potassium (as chloride), do yourself a favor and insist that they
arrange the two drips to mix before entering your arm...if the KCl goes in a
separate pipe, your arm will feel like it's being cooked from within; with the
dilution of the other drip, the effect is at least blunted....

(Note also that KCl is the third part of the combination that is familiarly
known as "lethal injection"...it stops the heart...the first two parts sedate
you and paralyze you so they don't have to listen to you scream bloody murder
when the last part kicks in)....r

[Ralph Jones]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 09:05:09 +0100, Thomas Prufer
<prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
[snip]

>Now you mention it, this wouldn't be on the shelves of a supermarket, even a
>very large one.
>
>It may be that it would have to be sold in a pharmacy -- anything that isn't a
>food but a medicine (but not necessarily a prescription medicine) needs to be
>sold there.

I take it you're speaking in European terms. Your typical USAn
supermarket contains a complete pharmacy, and the non-prescription
pharmacy items simply take up one of the store aisles.

We smear the boundaries between those product lines quite a bit
here...our flagship "drugstore", Walgreen's, is about 20% pharmacy.
People go there for cosmetics, candy, gift wrapping, cellphones,
cameras, milk and ice cream.

rj

[Thomas Prufer]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 09:05:35 -0700, Ralph Jones <ra...@nomeking.com> wrote:

>I take it you're speaking in European terms. Your typical USAn
>supermarket contains a complete pharmacy, and the non-prescription
>pharmacy items simply take up one of the store aisles.

Yes. It's called an "apothecary" here in Germany, which sells first,
prescription drugs. Then, non-prescription stuff that's only allowed to be sold
in the "Apotheke" (and there's a word for it: Apothekenpflichtig!). This stuff
is sold only over-the-counter, literally: you have to ask, and they give it to
you, along with any warnings about side effects, or that the combination you
just bought is dangerous/ineffective, or whatever. There's a pharmacist there,
who has spent four-five years studying pharmaceutics and medicine at an
university, and passed an exam. Some are good, free and immediately available
sources of medical advice and a reasonable substitute for a doctor in many minor
things... They will also make things fo you -- I asked for an oinment that had
been discontinued, they looked up the ingredients, and said they could make it
up for me, overnight and a few dollars. They also sell cosmetics, bath essences,
shampoo, bandages, and so on, but compete with the equivalent of People's (CVS
now?) and so on on these items.


Thomas Prufer

[Moe Trin]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article
<1oopi7pjs4c45ah5p...@4ax.com>, Thomas Prufer wrote:

>ibup...@painkiller.example.tld.invalid (Moe Trin) wrote:

>> I don't know the laws and customs in Germany, but in the USA, you
>> can purchase alternative salts in most grocery stores - useful for
>> those on a low sodium diet. An alternative salt would be something
>> like potassium chloride, or a mixture of sodium and potassium
>> chlorides. While more expensive that sodium chloride, they are
>> available under brand names like "LiteSalt" and "NoSalt".

>Now you mention it, this wouldn't be on the shelves of a supermarket,
>even a very large one.

Those two brands are sold on the same shelf with three or more brands
of the common sodium chloride version. It's also common to find
various prepared foods such as soups, stews, frozen meals, and
fruit/vegetable juices offered in a "low sodium" version (usually with
some of the sodium chloride salt replaced with a potassium chloride).
These are sold on the same shelf as the "regular" product. It's all
considered to be ordinary foodstuffs.

>It may be that it would have to be sold in a pharmacy -- anything that
>isn't a food but a medicine (but not necessarily a prescription
>medicine) needs to be sold there.

The salts are shelved with the rest of the dried spices - in my nearest
Safeway and Frys (Kroger) stores, that's about 15'/4.5 meters of aisle
space eight shelves high.

>On the whole, there's a lot less supplements and OTC medication on
>sale here.

which is probably a good thing - those same two grocery stores (each
about 65000 feet^2/6000 meters^2) have at least 75 feet/23 meters of
aisle maybe seven to ten shelves high of such products. Part of that
is competition - there are probably 20 different aspirin-like products
from six or more manufacturers alone, never mind a dozen or more
brands of multi-vitamin products.

Old guy

[R H Draney]

Moe Trin filted:

>
>On Sat, 04 Feb 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article
><1oopi7pjs4c45ah5p...@4ax.com>, Thomas Prufer wrote:
>

>>ibup...@painkiller.example.tld.invalid (Moe Trin) wrote:
>
>>> I don't know the laws and customs in Germany, but in the USA, you
>>> can purchase alternative salts in most grocery stores - useful for
>>> those on a low sodium diet. An alternative salt would be something
>>> like potassium chloride, or a mixture of sodium and potassium
>>> chlorides. While more expensive that sodium chloride, they are
>>> available under brand names like "LiteSalt" and "NoSalt".
>
>>Now you mention it, this wouldn't be on the shelves of a supermarket,
>>even a very large one.
>

>Those two brands are sold on the same shelf with three or more brands
>of the common sodium chloride version. It's also common to find
>various prepared foods such as soups, stews, frozen meals, and
>fruit/vegetable juices offered in a "low sodium" version (usually with
>some of the sodium chloride salt replaced with a potassium chloride).
>These are sold on the same shelf as the "regular" product. It's all
>considered to be ordinary foodstuffs.
>

>>It may be that it would have to be sold in a pharmacy -- anything that
>>isn't a food but a medicine (but not necessarily a prescription
>>medicine) needs to be sold there.
>

>The salts are shelved with the rest of the dried spices - in my nearest
>Safeway and Frys (Kroger) stores, that's about 15'/4.5 meters of aisle
>space eight shelves high.
>

>>On the whole, there's a lot less supplements and OTC medication on
>>sale here.
>

>which is probably a good thing - those same two grocery stores (each
>about 65000 feet^2/6000 meters^2) have at least 75 feet/23 meters of
>aisle maybe seven to ten shelves high of such products. Part of that
>is competition - there are probably 20 different aspirin-like products
>from six or more manufacturers alone, never mind a dozen or more
>brands of multi-vitamin products.

Pausing here for a moment to wonder aloud: isn't there a UL that nutmeg is
poisonous when taken in quantity?...r

[bil...@wildblue.net]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutmeg#Effects

[Thomas Prufer]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 20:26:16 -0600, ibup...@painkiller.example.tld.invalid
(Moe Trin) wrote:

>It's also common to find
>various prepared foods such as soups, stews, frozen meals, and
>fruit/vegetable juices offered in a "low sodium" version (usually with
>some of the sodium chloride salt replaced with a potassium chloride).
>These are sold on the same shelf as the "regular" product. It's all
>considered to be ordinary foodstuffs.

Actually, I don't recall seeing any low sodium foods, at least not in day-to-day
shopping in stores here in Germany.

People take less *stuff*, on the whole: far fewer supplements, less "XYZ
fortified" food. And there's less ready-made food on the shelves, too. TV
dinners, fr'instance, are unknown...

>which is probably a good thing - those same two grocery stores (each
>about 65000 feet^2/6000 meters^2) have at least 75 feet/23 meters of
>aisle maybe seven to ten shelves high of such products. Part of that
>is competition - there are probably 20 different aspirin-like products
>from six or more manufacturers alone, never mind a dozen or more
>brands of multi-vitamin products.

Aye, I know it well. And the cheese counter is smaller than that!

Good beef is harder, and more expensive, to get here, though.


Thomas Prufer

[Moe Trin]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article
<nqesi7pubn0rfgaga...@4ax.com>, Thomas Prufer wrote:

>ibup...@painkiller.example.tld.invalid (Moe Trin) wrote:

>> It's also common to find various prepared foods such as soups, stews,
>> frozen meals, and fruit/vegetable juices offered in a "low sodium"
>> version (usually with some of the sodium chloride salt replaced with
>> a potassium chloride). These are sold on the same shelf as the
>>"regular" product. It's all considered to be ordinary foodstuffs.

>Actually, I don't recall seeing any low sodium foods, at least not in
>day-to-day shopping in stores here in Germany.

The most obvious example that comes to mind is the bottled tomato and
multi-vegetable juices - "V-8" is offered in many varieties, including
the "normal" or original blend, the same blend with reduced sodium, and
a third with "low sodium" (translated to "lots of salt", "50/50
sodium and potassium chloride salt" and a blend with the ratio even
more to potassium chloride). The store brand offers two such blends.
The tomato juice blend offerings are similar. Another common example
is "Campbells Soup" which is a canned condensed soup - several of those
soups are offered in high and reduced sodium blends

>People take less *stuff*, on the whole: far fewer supplements, less
>"XYZ fortified" food. And there's less ready-made food on the shelves,
>too. TV dinners, fr'instance, are unknown...

A lot of the products have a substantial salt level - whether it's the
ready made stuff or the fast foods from McBurger-in-a-box.

>Aye, I know it well. And the cheese counter is smaller than that!

The two chain grocery stores I mentioned have pre-packaged cheese in
the dairy aisle (probably about 10 meters of aisle, six shelves high)
with varieties of "cheddar", "american", "swiss" and so on (the dry
ground parmesan is over on aisle 3 with the spaghetti sauce), but both
have a "delicatessen" selling slightly better cheeses, luncheon meats
and such, sliced to order. Whoopie!

>Good beef is harder, and more expensive, to get here, though.

Beef, pork, ham, chicken and turkey is quite easy to find, and is usually
pretty good. Prices vary widely (and sometimes wildly) for the same
cut/quality. What is difficult to find (and as expensive as top grades
and cuts of beef) are lamb and veal. This appears to be a regional
selection problem (I'm near Phoenix, Arizona, about 360 miles/600 KM East
of Los Angeles) as I found a much better selection in the San Francisco
bay area. Here, the lamb is usually limited to rib/loin chops and
partially boned legs for roasting. The veal may only be thin sliced
round (for scallopini) if it's on the shelf at all.

Old guy

[Moe Trin]

On 4 Feb 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article

<jgl54...@drn.newsguy.com>, R H Draney wrote:

>Pausing here for a moment to wonder aloud: isn't there a UL that nutmeg
>is poisonous when taken in quantity?...r

Hitting your favorite search engine with the terms "nutmeg" and
"quantity" will probably turn up a bunch of hits that boil down to

the fun dose is so-and-so - but be very careful because that's
close to LD50.

Examples might be

http://www.livestrong.com/article/366854-nutmeg-side-effects/
http://www.drugtext.org/library/books/recreationaldrugs/nutmeg.htm

Looking at "The Anarchist Cookbook" (LOCUS 71-127797, the 12th edition
from 1980 is ISBN 0-8184-0003-X for hardcover, 0-8184-0004-8 for paper,
by "William Powell"), it lists the "normal" dose as 10-15 grams or 1/3
to 1/2 ounce, and only states that "A larger dose than this may produce
excessive thirst, anxiety, and rapid heartbeat, but hallucinations are
rare." As this same book gives instructions/recipe for making
"nitrogen tri-iodide" (relatively bad stuff) "as a warning and as a
curiosity", I'm inclined to take the book "with some salt".

Old guy

[R H Draney]

Moe Trin filted:

>
>The most obvious example that comes to mind is the bottled tomato and
>multi-vegetable juices - "V-8" is offered in many varieties, including
>the "normal" or original blend, the same blend with reduced sodium, and
>a third with "low sodium" (translated to "lots of salt", "50/50
>sodium and potassium chloride salt" and a blend with the ratio even
>more to potassium chloride). The store brand offers two such blends.
>The tomato juice blend offerings are similar. Another common example
>is "Campbells Soup" which is a canned condensed soup - several of those
>soups are offered in high and reduced sodium blends

If you have to drink low-sodium V-8 juice, you have my sympathies...I bought
some a while back thinking it would be better for me...and I'd rather have it
with no seasoning at all than the stuff someone *thinks* is a substitute (it's a
bit like using wood shavings to replace bread crumbs, except that at least wood
shavings don't generally contribute a completely dissimilar flavor of their own
to the result)....

>Beef, pork, ham, chicken and turkey is quite easy to find, and is usually
>pretty good. Prices vary widely (and sometimes wildly) for the same
>cut/quality. What is difficult to find (and as expensive as top grades
>and cuts of beef) are lamb and veal. This appears to be a regional
>selection problem (I'm near Phoenix, Arizona, about 360 miles/600 KM East
>of Los Angeles) as I found a much better selection in the San Francisco
>bay area. Here, the lamb is usually limited to rib/loin chops and
>partially boned legs for roasting. The veal may only be thin sliced
>round (for scallopini) if it's on the shelf at all.

I'm in Phoenix proper, and I recently learned that you're supposed to go to
small independent carnicerias for that kind of selection...heck, I can't even
get boneless pork butt at the regular supermarkets (everybody wants to sell me
"loin" instead, which has no flavor whatsoever)....r

[Charles Wm. Dimmick]

The UL that I heard, circa 1964, was that ingesting a fairly large
quantity of nutmeg, approximately one ounce of the ground nutmeg, would
cause you to see and hear all kinds of things that were not there, and
was advertized as a relatively cheap high. I met a person, a psychology
major at Tulane University, who claimed to have tried this, said that it
took about 20 minutes to get it all down, and that he indeed experience
the promised high, but that he was sick for the next three days.

Charles

[John Francis]

In article <slrnjitmmo.s...@compton.phx.az.us>,

Moe Trin <ibup...@painkiller.example.tld.invalid> wrote:
>
>Beef, pork, ham, chicken and turkey is quite easy to find, and is usually
>pretty good. Prices vary widely (and sometimes wildly) for the same
>cut/quality. What is difficult to find (and as expensive as top grades
>and cuts of beef) are lamb and veal. This appears to be a regional
>selection problem (I'm near Phoenix, Arizona, about 360 miles/600 KM East
>of Los Angeles) as I found a much better selection in the San Francisco
>bay area. Here, the lamb is usually limited to rib/loin chops and
>partially boned legs for roasting. The veal may only be thin sliced
>round (for scallopini) if it's on the shelf at all.

Here in Silicon Valley finding almost any cut of veal is easy; there
are supermarkets that cater to the Italian tastes. While finding lamb
(or at least lamb loin chops & leg of lamb) is quite easy, finding good
lamb (and such esoteric offerings as lamb kidneys) is a bit harder.
Fortunately there are several middle eastern stores, and quite a few
Halal butchers. What is harder to find is decent pork products once
you get beyond one or two popular cuts. And should you be crazy enough
to want a leg of pork complete with the skin, you'll have to grab it
should one show up; while not impossible to find, they're not common.

[Lon]

What is so bad about nitrogen tri-iodide? Sure it is a tad sensitive
to even the slightest touch, may be unstable in sunlight, will tear a
hole in paper if you happen to touch the paper with a grain of NTI on
it... On the other hand, as it detonates it produces no flame and the
iodine vapor will sufficiently sterilize the bloody stub of your hand.

[Nasti J]

On Feb 5, 12:46 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:

> I'm in Phoenix proper, and I recently learned that you're supposed to go to
> small independent carnicerias for that kind of selection...heck, I can't even
> get boneless pork butt at the regular supermarkets (everybody wants to sell me
> "loin" instead, which has no flavor whatsoever)....r

Have you tried Smart & Final? They usually have a good selection of
Cry-O-Vac-ed pork. Don't know where you are, but the one at Scottsdale
Rd. & Thunderbird always has lots of different cuts. Or try the
butchers at The Super L Ranch Market, down at the Chinese Cultural
Center. 668 North 44th Street.

[Thomas Prufer]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 23:47:42 +0000 (UTC), jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:

> And should you be crazy enough
>to want a leg of pork complete with the skin, you'll have to grab it
>should one show up; while not impossible to find, they're not common.

"Skin on" is standard here in Bavaria, both for hock and roasts. Crunchy skin
with the meat tender and juicy is the ideal here.

Then there's the other four hundred things they make from pork, from sausages
raw, cooked and smoked and made for frying, heating, cooking, eating cold, whole
or sliced, to dozens of varieties of ham, raw, cooked, smoked, to a bewildering
array of meat cuts, then souse, black pudding, innards... Then go to the baker
next door, chose from several dozen kinds of bread, and there you go.

I can get some pretty odd food down at the market, at a price: there's a butcher
devoted entirely to horsemeat... And there's a restaurant where the English
tourist menu leaves out some of the more odd rustic dishes, sorta like the
Chinese restaurant menus.


Thomas Prufer

[Moe Trin]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article
<jgn4eu$p7u$1...@reader1.panix.com>, John Francis wrote:

>Moe Trin <ibup...@painkiller.example.tld.invalid> wrote:

>> I found a much better selection in the San Francisco bay area. Here,
>> the lamb is usually limited to rib/loin chops and partially boned
>> legs for roasting. The veal may only be thin sliced round (for
>> scallopini) if it's on the shelf at all.

>Here in Silicon Valley finding almost any cut of veal is easy; there
>are supermarkets that cater to the Italian tastes. While finding lamb
>(or at least lamb loin chops & leg of lamb) is quite easy, finding good
>lamb (and such esoteric offerings as lamb kidneys) is a bit harder.
>Fortunately there are several middle eastern stores, and quite a few
>Halal butchers. What is harder to find is decent pork products once
>you get beyond one or two popular cuts.

We left the Bay area (Sunnyvale) in 1996, but there were two butchers
in Mountain View - one on the South corner of Castro and Villa, and
one on the West side of San Antonio between Miller and Fayette about
a quarter mile North of El Camino (roughly opposite Sears). If you go
to the San Antonio one on Saturday, try to get there before mid-day as
they sometimes sold out of some products.

At least up to 1996, Alpha Beta (Rengstorff at Middlefield, and Mathilda
at Maude) used to have boneless sirloin lamb chops several times a week,
and even PakNSave at Mathilda and El Camino) had good lamb and veal.

>And should you be crazy enough to want a leg of pork complete with the
>skin, you'll have to grab it should one show up; while not impossible
>to find, they're not common.

Try the butcher on San Antonio.

Old guy

[Moe Trin]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article
<1LCdnfj2CsXUh7LS...@giganews.com>, Lon wrote:

>Moe Trin wrote:

[The Anarchist Cookbook]

>> As this same book gives instructions/recipe for making "nitrogen
>> tri-iodide" (relatively bad stuff) "as a warning and as a curiosity",
>> I'm inclined to take the book "with some salt".

>What is so bad about nitrogen tri-iodide?

It tends to be noisy and disturb the neighbors

>On the other hand, as it detonates it produces no flame and the
>iodine vapor will sufficiently sterilize the bloody stub of your hand.

The book also gives instructions/recipes for nitroglycerine, and various
metallic fulminates with appropriate warnings. Apparently the author
realizes that some may not give due care and read the instructions
before attempting to tease Darwin - they mention one teen who apparently
tried to dry smokeless powder in the kitchen oven...

Old guy

[Moe Trin]

On 5 Feb 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article

<jgmma...@drn.newsguy.com>, R H Draney wrote:

>Moe Trin filted:

>> The most obvious example that comes to mind is the bottled tomato and
>> multi-vegetable juices - "V-8" is offered in many varieties, including
>> the "normal" or original blend, the same blend with reduced sodium,
>> and a third with "low sodium" (translated to "lots of salt", "50/50
>> sodium and potassium chloride salt" and a blend with the ratio even
>> more to potassium chloride). The store brand offers two such blends.

>If you have to drink low-sodium V-8 juice, you have my sympathies...I
>bought some a while back thinking it would be better for me...and I'd
>rather have it with no seasoning at all than the stuff someone *thinks*
>is a substitute

That's probably a matter of taste - mentioned up-thread, I usually
build my own version starting with tomato paste and spicing it up MY
way. As regards the sodium vs potassium salts, I got used to using
less salt when I started cooking for myself, and switched to a potassium
salt about fifteen years ago when the blood work showed the potassium
serum levels on the low side. The several times I've been in for
surgery, the attending physician would add potassium pills to my meds
as a "precaution".

>I'm in Phoenix proper, and I recently learned that you're supposed to
>go to small independent carnicerias for that kind of selection...heck,
>I can't even get boneless pork butt at the regular supermarkets
>(everybody wants to sell me "loin" instead, which has no flavor
>whatsoever)....r

I suppose that depends on what you are looking for - I'll often buy the
so-called "boneless ribs" when I want something different. Looking
in the Phoenix Metro "dex", it seems most of them are downtown rather
than out here in the Boonies of Cave Creek. From what I can determine
of the local supermarkets, they only take primal cuts from a bag, slice
and wrap that. Really disappointing. They also seem to be "looking
out for our health" - corned beef is limited to flats and points, except
the pre-roasted stuff in the deli (at $12-15 a pound). Corned round?
Surely you jest. I can do better at "Smart and Final".

Old guy

[R H Draney]

Nasti J filted:
>
>On Feb 5, 12:46=A0pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm in Phoenix proper, and I recently learned that you're supposed to go =
>to
>> small independent carnicerias for that kind of selection...heck, I can't =
>even
>> get boneless pork butt at the regular supermarkets (everybody wants to se=

>ll me
>> "loin" instead, which has no flavor whatsoever)....r
>
>Have you tried Smart & Final? They usually have a good selection of
>Cry-O-Vac-ed pork. Don't know where you are, but the one at Scottsdale
>Rd. & Thunderbird always has lots of different cuts. Or try the
>butchers at The Super L Ranch Market, down at the Chinese Cultural
>Center. 668 North 44th Street.

Have been in both stores within the past week (Chinese New Year!) but I've had
pretty good luck with the pork at Super Wal-Mart...sometimes I have to settle
for "picnic roast" which is trussed up in fishnet stockings, but the size is
about right for the pans I use to roast it (you'd be amazed what you can cook in
a toaster oven)....r

[Nasti J]

On Feb 7, 2:13 am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:

>
> Have been in both stores within the past week (Chinese New Year!) but I've had
> pretty good luck with the pork at Super Wal-Mart...sometimes I have to settle
> for "picnic roast" which is trussed up in fishnet stockings, but the size is
> about right for the pans I use to roast it (you'd be amazed what you can cook in
> a toaster oven)....r

Glad you found something serviceable - I don't do Wal-Mart.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <jftov...@drn.newsguy.com>, R H Draney
<dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:

>Charles Wm. Dimmick filted:
>>
>>On 1/25/2012 7:14 PM, Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
>>> I just learned a new word.
>>> And it's not in my very thick crossword puzzle dictionary.
>>> Heavens be praised for Google.
>>Apologies. I Maddied this. It was supposed to go to another froup.
>
>Well, since we're now making random un-legendary posts to kill time: I've had
>something like six blinding muscle cramps in different parts of my body since
>6pm...I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat
earlier
>today....r

And today's Ed Rice Award goes to:

Is it odd that the cramps were in separate parts? I was wondering what you
could have done in a laurdromat, that was part of the usual things one
does, where you would have strained 6 separate parts.

I assume you're better by now. I'm getting cramps in my calves more
frequently than I used to, with no indication I'm working any harder than
before.

--
charles

[Don Freeman]

(to continue on in this vein)

Hmmmm...
My wife stopped getting cramps over a decade ago. Do you think it is
because she doesn't go to laundromats anymore?

[Jay E. Morris]

On 4/30/2012 7:48 PM, Charles Bishop wrote:
> In article<jftov...@drn.newsguy.com>, R H Draney
> <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> Charles Wm. Dimmick filted:
>>>
>>> On 1/25/2012 7:14 PM, Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
>>>> I just learned a new word.
>>>> And it's not in my very thick crossword puzzle dictionary.
>>>> Heavens be praised for Google.
>>> Apologies. I Maddied this. It was supposed to go to another froup.
>>
>> Well, since we're now making random un-legendary posts to kill time: I've had
>> something like six blinding muscle cramps in different parts of my body since
>> 6pm...I'm thinking it has something to do with my trip to the laundromat
> earlier
>> today....r
>
> And today's Ed Rice Award goes to:
>
> Is it odd that the cramps were in separate parts? I was wondering what you
> could have done in a laurdromat, that was part of the usual things one
> does, where you would have strained 6 separate parts.
>

Me too. I usually only get two, three at the most, riding in the dryer.