Monthly posting...
M Darrin Chaney
alt.folklore.urban monthly posting
To all new members of alt.folklore.urban (a.f.u), we would like to welcome you
and encourage you to post. This group is unmoderated, and basically anything
goes. We enjoy discussing new topics of folklore, and the versions that we
have heard. Overall, I think you'll find that the content of this group has
less 'flames' than most groups, so don't be afraid to ask about something that
you are not sure of, or put in your '2 cents worth' on a topic being debated.
If you want to flame someone for any reason, please do so by mail, unless it
is to clear up something that may have confused others.
afu is like most newsgroups. There are a few "core" members who do most of the
discussion, while most of the questions are posed by people who post only
very seldom, or perhaps only once. We don't mind, and we welcome your input
and questions. Most of the questions basically are of the form, "I heard this,
is it true". Allow me to first note that if the characters are unnamed, the
place and time unnamed, it's probably just another one of those "Urban
Legends", and we love them.
Urban legend is a new idea brought on for our modern folklore. Many of us
have heard anecdotes from family, coworkers, costudents, and even through
the media. Unattributed (or perhaps attributed to a 'Friend Of A Friend', or
FOAF) stories are generally the most common, and these stories almost always
keep up with current technology. They usually are the kind of story where you
end up saying, "Is that true?" They live on the boundaries of possibility, but
are just a bit beyond. All of them show how we feel inside, as a large group
of people. Some show our fears, whether they be of madmen or new technology.
Some show things that we find funny, such as the underdog winning. And, some
show superstitions, and strange beliefs. We'll see some examples later.
The monthly posting is in two parts. The first part (which you are reading
now) simply discusses the newsgroup, and it's history. The second part gives
a look at folklore from an academic standpoint. I also give you some insight
as to what you can expect if you take a class in the subject.
This posting will be updated monthly. You will probably want to put this in
your kill file (use Ctrl-K if you are using 'rn') after you finish reading it.
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If you are new, then you've missed some of our stories that we've already
discussed. This section should show you some of the stories we've
covered here, and show you some extra information on them.
P&G logo/Satanism- rumor has it that Procter & Gamble's logo is a Satanic
symbol, and that the CEO appeared on Donahue saying that 1/3 of the company's
profits go to Satan. Totally FALSE!
News flash- The Satanism connection is now attributed to Liz Claiborne.
According to this, she went on the Oprah Winfrey show and revealed this.
Just like the last one, this is false.
Santa/Satanism- apparently some religious groups hold that Santa is
basically Satan. Why? He invokes greed. Of course, they fail to notice that
the guy gives free toys to every single child in the world without asking
anything in return.
Halloween/Satanism- was Halloween derived from an old occultists' holiday?
Galloping Girdy (Tacoma Narrows Bridge, Tacoma, Washington, I know, I know)-
not folklore at all. This bridge succumbed to high winds through the narrows,
which set up standing waves in the bridge, finally destroying it. There is a
neat film on the subject.
Marching vibrations collapse bridge- the Army has a special thing that they do
when the cross bridges, they break step. This is to avoid what happened in the
previous. Does it matter? Nobody is for sure.
Guts sucked out by pool drain- just about says it all. A person, usually a
child, has their guts sucked out by a pool drain, or perhaps in a jacuzzi or
hot tub.
Anti-gravity devices- were the skateboards in "Back to the Future, Parts II &
III" real, or Hollywood special FX?
UFO coverups- Was the show "Project Bluebook" canned by the FBI because it
exposed too much?
Rural fun (cow-tipping, snipe hunting, dead cows, stupid people, Cheers episode
where guys take Frazier snipe hunting)- just some of the various things that we
do here in rural areas.
Contacts fused to corneas from arc welder- A person looks into an arc, and
microwaves from the arc (hmm) dry up the water between his corneas and
contacts. When he removes the contacts, he removes his corneas. I've seen
this one reported as true on television, along with someone to whom it
suposedly happened.
Crunching ice- sign of iron deficiency, or harmless past-time. Many dentists
say it's bad for the teeth, as are other cold foods, such as ice cream.
Alka-Seltzer, thrown to sea gulls- Something to do on the coast, make sea gulls
explode. I've heard it first-hand, but I hold judgement.
Exploding birds from wedding rice- is that the real reason they change to
birdseed?
LSD tatoos- were these really given out to kids to get them hooked? Well, no.
Couple gets stuck together- actual, verifiable, from a doctor. Two people can
get stuck together during sex.
Pints of semen in rock stars' stomachs- I heard this as a kid. It seems to go
around to various stars. Apparently, they pass out or get sick on stage.
Large amounts of semen is found in his (always a guy) stomach.
Thomas Crapper- This man is attributed with inventing the flush toilet. There
is also a company in the United Kingdom that bears his name. He has a
biography called "Flushed with Pride". However, it's not believed that he
ever existed.
And some others. We also discuss ballads.
-------------------
Acronyms are popular on the net, and here are some of the most commonly used:
IMHO- In My Humble Opinion
BTW- By The Way
RTFM- Read the F***ing Manual
FOAF- Friend Of A Friend
FOAF is commonly used here, but I doubt you'll see it elsewhere.
-------------------
Part 2- Folklore from the academic view
I'd like to give you a "feel" for what folklore is. It's not just funny little
stories that you hear, but encompasses a wide variety of things that are passed
along. This includes:
1. Legends, and other oral folklore
2. Ballads, and folksongs
3. Material lore, crafts, etc.
4. Some jobs, such as an apprentice may learn
5. Types of buildings (no joke)
6. Riddles and Jokes
7. Other categories
The unifying idea behind all of these is that they are passed along, without
regards to the originator, and without much "officialism".
There are some names that you'll be seeing again and again, so we may as well
start with the one that you'll see probably more than others, Jan Harold
Brunvand. Here are his and some other prominent folklorists' definitions of
folklore:
Jan Harold Brunvand: "Folklore- the material- is what goes around and around
and around by word of mouth, ever recognizable but ever changing too.
Folklore- the study- is what I and my fellow researchers in this field do with
it: collect the variations, organize them, and most of all try to explain the
forms this material takes and the needs it seems to fill." (1)
Richard Dorson, who is held by many to be the 'father of folklore', defines
folklore: "Folklore is the culture of the people. It is the hidden submerged
culture lying in the shadow of the official civilization about which
historians write." (2)
Archer Taylor, another well-known folklorist, defines it as "materials that are
handed down traditionally from generation to generation without a reliable
ascription to an inventor or author." (2)
Ronald Baker, who I personally studied under in my introductory folklore class,
defines it as "the dynamic process of sharing informal culture within
close-knit groups." (2)
It's interesting to note that both Mr. Brunvand and Mr. Baker studied under
Richard Dorson here at Indiana University in Bloomington. Mr. Baker is now the
head of the English Department at Indiana State University in nearby Terre
Haute, and Mr. Brunvand serves in the Enlish Department at the Univeristy
of Utah in Salt Lake City.
Both of these gentlemen, along with a host of others, write books pertaining to
the subject. Here is a brief listing of some books that I know of. You should
be able to find them in any reputable bookstore, as I've personally had no
problem doing so myself. If not, you may check with the clerk about ordering
them.
Jan Harold Brunvand-
"Curses, Broiled Again!"
This is a large book, costs around $19, and contains a broad
overview of some modern legends, including its namesake,
about the girl who is cooked in the suntan bed. (3)
"The Mexican Pet: More "New" Urban Legends and Some Old Favorites"
This and the next two are smaller books, about 200 pages each,
and costing only about $7, a great deal. This one contains
more stories than the other two, but less in the way of
analysis. It's namesake of course is "The Mexican Pet." (4)
It also contains alot of references to the next two books.
"The Choking Doberman: Urban Legends and Their Meanings"
This book contains quite a few legends, and also gives alot of
analysis. It's namesake is the story of "The Choking
Doberman." (5)
"The Vanishing Hitchhiker: American Urban Legends and Their Meanings"
This was the first of his books on new legends, and spends a
large amount of time discussing "The Vanishing Hitchhiker." (6)
It also discusses a variety of other legends.
"A Study of American Folklore: An Introduction"
Meant to be a college textbook, this was, I believe, his first
book on the subject. First published in 1968, it has undergone
two major revisions, to keep up with the times. May I suggest
this to someone who would like to study the topic in more
detail. Expect to pay $20 - $25 for this. Unlike the other
books, this doesn't give so many stories, but instead, is a
guidebook to the serious student.
Ronald Baker-
"Hoosier Folk Legends"
"Jokelore: Humorous Folktales from Indiana"
Both of these books are very similar. Baker gives the folktale
with no analysis or any of that. He does give information
about the source, where it was collected, etc. Also, in the
beginning of each book, he devotes 40 pages to the subject
at hand. He's a very interesting writer, and gives much
analysis in the Introduction. The first book contains 305
legends, all collected in Indiana, but not necessarily
originating here. "Jokelore" contains 352 jokes, tall tales,
and all kinds of funny anecdotes. The jokes it contains
encompasses just about every group going. There are Polish,
Jewish, Irish, Black, Catholic, Drunks, and of course,
Kentuckian jokes, as well as a variety of others. This book
isn't made to be an insult to anyone, but instead, to be a
collection of jokes for the folklorist. Jokelore is $9.95,
while Folk Legends is $8.95. Both are well worth this price.
Two other books, which I know nothing about, are also from Mr. Baker.
They are "Indiana Place Names", and "Folklore in the Writings of
Rowland E. Robinson."
Peter & Iona Opie
"The Lore and Language of School Children"
I honestly know nothing about this book.
Paul Smith (from across the pond)
"The Book of Nasty Legends"
I've never seen this one.
"The Book of Nastier Legends"
Well, I have this book. First allow me to point out, Paul's
use of the word "Nasty" in the title varies greatly from
Americans' definitions. We generally think of nasty as "filthy
or morally unfit", but all of the stories given in this book
are absolutely clean. The cover is devoted to the story of the
"Tarantulas in the Yucca Plant" (7), and it contains around 100
legends. I got mine on sale for $4. He also gives a bit of
an explanation or background with each legend, but many
Americans would find this easier with a dictionary of British
slang. Of course, I'm sure American books are no vacation for
them, either.
-------------------
Notes:
1. Excerpt from "The Mexican Pet: More "New" Urban Legends and Some Old
Favorites": Jan Harold Brunvand, 1986.
2. Excerpt from "Jokelore: Humorous Folktales from Indiana": Ronald L. Baker,
1986.
3. Girl cooked in Suntan bed (paraphrased): A girl is going to go on a
vacation (cruise, etc.) and wants to have a good tan before she goes. She
goes to a couple of those suntan places, and they all have a half hour
limit. So, she decides to get around the limit, she'll just go to a number
of them. After going to 7 (5, etc.) she begins to feel sick. She goes to
a doctor, who then tells her that she is going to die. From going to all
the places, she has cooked herself from the inside out, like a microwave
oven.
4. The Mexican Pet: A lady goes to Mexico, and finds a little dog. It follows
her around all day, and at the end of the day, she wants to take it home.
She sneaks it across the border in some boxes (or long overcoat, etc.) and
takes it home. The next day it gets sick, so she takes it to a vet. He
informs her that it is a Mexican sewer rat, and is about to die.
5. The Choking Doberman: A lady comes home to find her Doberman choking,
nearly to death. She takes him to the vet, and leaves him there. Upon
returning to her house, the phone is ringing. It's the vet, who tells her
to get out of the house and stay at a neighbor's until the police arrive,
whom he has already called. He tells her then to say nothing, but hang up
the phone and leave. The police get there and find a man in a closet, with
a pool of blood. The Doberman had bitten off two (3 or 4) of his fingers
and was choking on them.
6. The Vanishing Hitchhiker, two versions. First the old: A boy was driving
down a road late at night and came upon a girl. He offered her a ride, and
she accepted, saying she was going home. He gave her his jacket, because
she was cold. Upon arrival at the house, he left her there, but shortly
went back, remembering his jacket. The lady who answers the door knows
nothing of it, but then he notices the girl's picture on the wall. She
tells him that the picture is of her deceased daughter (this was her
birthday, in some versions). When he goes to the graveyard where she is
buried, he finds his jacket over the tombstone.
New version: A man is driving down a road and sees a hitchhiker. He
offers the guy a ride, and the guy gets in the back seat. The new
passenger is silent, but finally says "Jesus is coming again" ("The war
will end soon", etc.) and disappears. The driver tells a gas station
attendant (police officer, etc.) down the road a way, and is told by this
person, "You're the 3rd (5th, etc.) person who's told me this today."
7. A person buys a Yucca plant (cactus) from someplace (could be anywhere).
The plant makes a funny hissing noise (bends over when watered, etc.) and
worries the owner. Finally they call a plant store (zoo, etc.) who tell
them to get out of the house and wait for them to arrive. They arrive
minutes later, and put a large bag over the plant. Just then, it explodes
and hundreds (thousands) of baby tarantulas come out. Of course, this is a
common occurence.
-------------------
As for me, I'm a student of Computer Science here at beautiful Indiana
University at Bloomington. I'm on the perpetual student program, and, let us
suffice it to say that I should have graduated already, but that's how it goes.
My first brush with folklore came when I was a student at Indiana State
University. I needed one more class, and had only a day to find it. A friend
mentioned that he was in a "Folklore" class, but that it was pretty boring. I
said something to the tune of "what the hell, I've got to get something" and
with that, I signed up for the class. The first couple of sessions were
boring, but it quickly picked up to become a very interesting class. I learned
many big names, and we soon found out that our very own teacher, Ronald
Baker, was one of the "big guys" as modern folklore goes.
Anyway, you don't just go through a class like this taking tests. You have the
big project, a "collection". You see, Mr. Baker started and is currently
maintaining the folklore archives at ISU (the largest is here at IU). My
collection project included collecting some local legends. They are numerous
in my county, and so I set out on my task. Mr. Baker also lives in my county,
so he's interested in such, also.
A lady I had the pleasure of working with knew some stuff, and grew up around
the time and place as some of the great "gangster" legends in the county, and
the county due north of mine (for reference, I'm from Clay county, and Parke
county is the next one north). She gave me first-hand stories of the James
gang, and even Dillinger (her mother once got a ride from him). Anyway, I got
an A on the 17 page paper, most of which was stories.
My friend and I had the distinct pleasure of speaking with Baker on many
occasions, and the one question that we asked was, "but how do you know if it
is true when someone turns it in?" (Mr. Baker doesn't require the tape of your
interview) His simple response was, "I know what to believe." You see,
folklore has a form that is recognizable, and after reading a book or two, you
should be able to "smell it a mile away." I leave you with that thought, and,
Happy Folkloring.
M Darrin Chaney
mdchaney@iubacs
mdch...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
mdch...@rose.ucs.indiana.edu
Gabe NEWELL
I am interested in references to books or articles on:
1) How folklore is used to teach children values
and in generaly be part of socialization. Anything
on the difference between stories told to and by
boys and girls. Anything on how folklore relates
to stages in personality development.
2) The relationship between folk lore and belief
systems as they relate to sustaining identity
(i.e., why do people need so strongly to believe
in things like UFO's, satanism, the sadistic
nature of large coporations, etc...).
Peter van der Linden
Ro(n)ald Dahl is born of Norwiegan stock, but was raised in
England, and in fact was a Spitfire pilot in WWII, until crippled
by a surfeit of stupid orders. He has spent the intervening half-
century "going back to his roots" and writing kids' stories --
Not all that different to Prince Charles, when you think about it...
----------------
Peter van der Linden lin...@eng.sun.com (415) 336-6206
I can't belive I just heard Coors advertise "bottled beer taste in
n
Gabe NEWELL
I just read "The Vanishing Hitchhiker" and "The Barking Doberman".
FYI - when I was a kid, crunching your ice was supposed to indicate
sexual frustration, not iron deficiency. As I remember there were
supposed to be a whole bunch of unconcsious signals people would give
off to indicate that they were sexually frustrated, gay, a Satanist,
whatever. We kids also ghoulishly passed around a set of lists of
how homosexuals would attempt to signal other homosexuals in restrooms.
I also just saw Nicholas Roeg's "Witches" last night. It was based
on Roald Dahl's children's book. What was interesting was that the
list of things to look for to identify a witch (purple eyes, square
toeds shoes, etc...) were very different from anything I remember
as a kid being the secret warning signs of evil adults. Does anyone
know where Roald Dahl came from?
Peter van der Linden
Scandanavian spelling of Roald for *no good reason*. Life's like that.
----------------
Peter van der Linden lin...@eng.sun.com (415) 336-6206
I can't belive I just heard Coors advertise "bottled beer taste in a can..."
as though this were desirable or an advantage!
Peter Deutsch
>
> Ro(n)ald Dahl is born of Norwiegan stock, but was raised in
> England, and in fact was a Spitfire pilot in WWII, until crippled
> by a surfeit of stupid orders. He has spent the intervening half-
> century "going back to his roots" and writing kids' stories --
> Not all that different to Prince Charles, when you think about it...
Oh, I didn't know Charles was a fighter pilot in WWII? And
born in Norway, too? Gosh, that's almost like a naming
collision!
(sorry, it's late and I'm reading news when I should go
home...)
- peterd
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+-------+ Peter Deutsch McGill University
| u # u | pet...@cs.mcgill.ca School of Computer Science
|/\/\/\/|
| a a |
\ a / "Love my work, hate my job..."
\___/
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Mitch Wagner
#FYI - when I was a kid, crunching your ice was supposed to indicate
#sexual frustration, not iron deficiency. As I remember there were
#supposed to be a whole bunch of unconcsious signals people would give
#off to indicate that they were sexually frustrated, gay, a Satanist,
#whatever. We kids also ghoulishly passed around a set of lists of
#how homosexuals would attempt to signal other homosexuals in restrooms.
I had a fascinating conversation with a gay acquaintance a few weeks ago who
told me about some kind of code using bandannas. If you wear a gray
bandanna in your back pocket, you're into bondage; a white bandanna,
mutual masturbation, etc. etc. etc.
We were sitting in a sidewalk cafe in Greenwich Village at the time.
I was about 90 percent sure he was making all this stuff up as he went
along, until he said that bondage is also signalled by a man wearing a
leather thong around his neck with a certain type of knot in it -- "like
that," he said, pointing out a man in the passing crowd. Who then winked
at him.
After that, I was only 60 percent sure he was making this stuff up....
--
-- Mitch Wagner
VOICE: 516/562-5758 GEnie: UNIX-TODAY
UUCP: wag...@utoday.com ...uunet!utoday!wagner
Tom Neff
>I had a fascinating conversation with a gay acquaintance a few weeks ago who
>
>I was about 90 percent sure he was making all this stuff up...
Ah, where would we be without Manhasset. :-)
It is not an "urban legend," the bandanna codes are perfectly true;
although I believe they have evolved somewhat over time. There are also
bandanna codes in the Castro, again slightly different.
I think there ought to be a dividing line somewhere between plain
ignorance of contemporary subcultures vs. real urban folklore.
Doug Sewell
codes. There were 63 different entries. I would have to significantly
censor that list to post it here, but trust me, anything imaginable
(and some not so imaginable) has a hanky color to represent it.
A few entries: mosquito netting - outdoor sex, teddy bear - likes to
cuddle, black/white checkered - safer sex, mustard - 'well endowed',
charcoal - latex fetish, black - heavy s&m, light blue - oral sex,
dark blue - anal sex, fur - bestiality, zip-lock bag - drugs, and
black/white stripe - prefers black partner.
In general, left meant more active (top), possessing, or offering
something, and right meant more passive (bottom) or looking for what's
being offered.
Hanky colors are generally meaningless or ignored in all but the
largest 'gay ghettos' of the country, and some bars in other areas.
But, wearing the wrong color hanky in those environments could get you
invited home for something not-altogether-expected.
--
Doug (do...@ysub.bitnet, do...@ysub.ysu.edu, ...!uunet!ysub.ysu.edu!doug)
Gary Allen
>I had a fascinating conversation with a gay acquaintance a few weeks ago who
>told me about some kind of code using bandannas. If you wear a gray
>bandanna in your back pocket, you're into bondage; a white bandanna,
>mutual masturbation, etc. etc. etc.
He wasn't making it up. The different colors stand for different activities,
whereas the side on which it is worn side denotes whether the dude is active
or passive.
I don't know about the leather thong.
Gary Allen
Apollo Computer
Chelmsford, MA
gal...@apollo.HP.COM