Botched execution UL
Tim McDaniel
and if the rope breaks or whatever, the prisoner is not executed.
It's usually considered F, as with
<http://www.snopes.com/legal/second.asp>. But there's a news story
where it's T temporarily, and there's a twist I've not seen before:
problems with person X delaying person Y's execution.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8291373.stm>
Second Ohio execution is halted
A US appeals court has halted a man's execution, three weeks after
an attempt to put another man to death by lethal injection failed.
On 15 September, the execution of Romell Broom was abandoned after
Ohio officials failed to find a vein.
Judges have now halted Thursday's scheduled execution in the state
of Lawrence Reynolds, 43.
The execution is being delayed until a federal judge can hear
arguments over problems with the injection process.
The execution of Broom - convicted of rape and murder - is also on
hold ahead of a federal court hearing on 30 November. ...
<http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ju0_UPvEVxUhVLghH9flkDra4lEAD9B50G680>
has more details on the ruling.
<http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/63523212.html> has still more
details:
In granting Reynolds' stay, the appeals court cited Ohio's
"failure to have a contingency plan in place should peripheral
vein access be impossible," "issues related to the competence of
the lethal injection team" and "other potential deficiencies" with
its execution process.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
John Dean
> There's the UL that an executioner gets one shot at his, er, client,
> and if the rope breaks or whatever, the prisoner is not executed.
>
> It's usually considered F, as with
> <http://www.snopes.com/legal/second.asp>. But there's a news story
> where it's T temporarily, and there's a twist I've not seen before:
> problems with person X delaying person Y's execution.
>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8291373.stm>
> Second Ohio execution is halted
It's not entirely F, at least in the variant related to John Lee (three
strikes and you're back in your cell)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbacombe_Lee
and Joseph Samuel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Samuel
Listen out for "Babbacombe Lee" the concept album:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbacombe_Lee_(album)
--
John Dean
Oxford
Richard Casady
wrote:
>There's the UL that an executioner gets one shot at his, er, client,
>and if the rope breaks or whatever, the prisoner is not executed.
The usual sentence is to be hanged until dead. Anyway, nobody ever
broke a rope. The head comes off long before there is enough strain on
the rope to break it.
Casady
Keith F. Lynch
> Anyway, nobody ever broke a rope. The head comes off long before
> there is enough strain on the rope to break it.
It has happened, though not recently. Perhaps the rope was rotten. See
http://www.executedtoday.com/2008/08/28/1807-james-mclean-twice/
and
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C05E0D7153FE533A25754C1A9669D94649FD7CF
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Richard Casady
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Richard Casady <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Anyway, nobody ever broke a rope. The head comes off long before
>> there is enough strain on the rope to break it.
>
>It has happened, though not recently. Perhaps the rope was rotten. See
>http://www.executedtoday.com/2008/08/28/1807-james-mclean-twice/
>and
>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C05E0D7153FE533A25754C1A9669D94649FD7CF
Sound practice is a new 3/4 inch hemp rope. You boil it for an hour
and dry it while stretched. This takes the stretchiness out of it.
Casady
David Scheidt
:On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:58:46 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
:<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
According to whom? Is there hanging handbook published by someone?
I'd rather expect that most hangings were done by people using
whatever apparently suitable rope was on offer by the last
capitalist^W^W^W^W^Whand.
--
sig 36
Mike Williams
>Richard Casady <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>:On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:58:46 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
>:<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>:>Richard Casady <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>:>> Anyway, nobody ever broke a rope. The head comes off long before
>:>> there is enough strain on the rope to break it.
>:>
>:>It has happened, though not recently. Perhaps the rope was rotten. See
>:>http://www.executedtoday.com/2008/08/28/1807-james-mclean-twice/
>:>and
>:>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C05E0D7153FE533A25754C
>
>:Sound practice is a new 3/4 inch hemp rope. You boil it for an hour
>:and dry it while stretched. This takes the stretchiness out of it.
>
>According to whom? Is there hanging handbook published by someone?
>I'd rather expect that most hangings were done by people using
>whatever apparently suitable rope was on offer by the last
>capitalist^W^W^W^W^Whand.
>
There are various sets of published rules for hanging.
The rules about using 30 feet of 3/4"-1" diameter manila hemp rope,
boiled to take out stretch and any tendency to coil, formed into 6 coils
and then waxed, soaped or greased to assure that the knot slides easily,
comes from a US Army manual.
There's a set of drop distance tables published by the British Home
Office. The tables are there to try to ensure that the death is as quick
and clean as possible. Make the drop too short and the neck doesn't
break resulting in strangulation which isn't considered humane. Make the
drop too long and the head comes off.
In the UK, hangings were performed with 13 feet of 3/4" diameter hemp
rope with a brass eyelet on the end. The rope is passed through the
eyelet to form a simple loop with no coils.
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
Richard Casady
<dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>:Sound practice is a new 3/4 inch hemp rope. You boil it for an hour
>:and dry it while stretched. This takes the stretchiness out of it.
>
>According to whom? Is there hanging handbook published by someone?
Yes there indeed is. The state of Delaware prisons has one with all
the details. Specifications for the restraints for example.
>I'd rather expect that most hangings were done by people using
>whatever apparently suitable rope was on offer by the last
>capitalist^W^W^W^W^Whand.
Not even.
Casady
Richard Casady
<nos...@econym.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In the UK, hangings were performed with 13 feet of 3/4" diameter hemp
>rope with a brass eyelet on the end. The rope is passed through the
>eyelet to form a simple loop with no coils.
This is shown clearly in the movie Dirty Dozen.
Casady
David Scheidt
:On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 03:45:07 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
:<dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
:>:Sound practice is a new 3/4 inch hemp rope. You boil it for an hour
:>:and dry it while stretched. This takes the stretchiness out of it.
:>
:>According to whom? Is there hanging handbook published by someone?
:Yes there indeed is. The state of Delaware prisons has one with all
:the details. Specifications for the restraints for example.
Written by a guy who just made shit up, it's worth noting, and who's
got a long history of fraud, extortion and general fucking
nutso-ness.
:>I'd rather expect that most hangings were done by people using
:>whatever apparently suitable rope was on offer by the last
:>capitalist^W^W^W^W^Whand.
:Not even.
That's all 20th century reference, though. Most hangings tok place in
early times.
--
sig 2
Richard Casady
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Richard Casady <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Anyway, nobody ever broke a rope. The head comes off long before
>> there is enough strain on the rope to break it.
>
>It has happened, though not recently. Perhaps the rope was rotten. See
>http://www.executedtoday.com/2008/08/28/1807-james-mclean-twice/
>and
>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C05E0D7153FE533A25754C1A9669D94649FD7CF
Never was too strong a word, but a new 3/4 inch hemp rope is not going
to break. The head is not attached well enough.
It has been about 150 years since the long drop was adopted in the UK
and US. Before that, the short drop used put little more than just the
victims weight on the rope, little jerk. Even before then, using a new
rope was the practice. Delaware's manual on hanging says drop sandbags
of the weight of the condemned, about twenty times. I supposethe idea
was to work out the last bit of stretch. There have been quite a few
lynchings and any number could have been with substandard rope. It is
even possible that a rope broke and the mob gave it up as a bad job.
Casady
Dave Garland
> Richard Casady <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> :On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 03:45:07 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
> :<dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> :>:Sound practice is a new 3/4 inch hemp rope. You boil it for an hour
> :>:and dry it while stretched. This takes the stretchiness out of it.
> That's all 20th century reference, though. Most hangings tok place in
> early times.
>
In early times they didn't worry so much about a quick kill. There
was more entertainment value, in watching them dance a bit. (Not just
"early times", either, niceties such as scaffolds were omitted from
most military and partisan executions during WWII, and I saw a video
of a recent hanging in Iran where the condemned were attached to a
length of I-beam, which was then hoisted into the air by a crane. No
drop at all, the lightest condemned did kick for a while.)
Dave
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> In early times they didn't worry so much about a quick kill. There
> was more entertainment value, in watching them dance a bit. (Not just
> "early times", either, niceties such as scaffolds were omitted from
> most military and partisan executions during WWII, and I saw a video
> of a recent hanging in Iran where the condemned were attached to a
> length of I-beam, which was then hoisted into the air by a crane. No
> drop at all, the lightest condemned did kick for a while.)
And the last time they hanged an elephant I don't think there was any drop.
Charles
David Scheidt
:Dave Garland wrote:
I thought elephants got the electric chair?
--
sig 64
Charles Wm. Dimmick
A [Temporary] Dog
<dave.g...@wizinfo.com> painted a red bull's eye on his forehead,
ascended the altar of Fluffy and shouted:
No video with this, but sometimes they do more then that:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4353449.stm
Iran's 'desert vampire' executed
(Summary: The "desert vampire" was a serial killer of children. At
his execution, he was whipped, stabbed by the brother of one of the
victims, and hanged by hoisting on a crane. The mother of one of the
victims was asked to put the rope around the "desert vampire's" neck.
Stretch not being an issue, they used a nylon rope)
--
- A (Temporary) Dog |"Intelligent, reasonable
The Domain is *nym hush com* |people understand that -
The Name is tempdog |unfortunately, we're dealing
|with elected officials"
Put together as name@domain | - name withheld
Lon
Bull elephants are always hung.
R H Draney
But seldom hanged....
R H "grammatical nitpicks ya us" Draney
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Lon
> Lon filted:
>> David Scheidt wrote:
>>> Charles Wm. Dimmick <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> :And the last time they hanged an elephant I don't think there was any drop.
>>>
>>> I thought elephants got the electric chair?
>> Bull elephants are always hung.
>
> But seldom hanged....
>
> R H "grammatical nitpicks ya us" Draney
>
Who, in this chain, was the one who botched the UL in the first place?
Mojohan
> R H Draney wrote:
> >> Bull elephants are always hung.
>
> > But seldom hanged....
>
> > R H "grammatical nitpicks ya us" Draney
>
> Who, in this chain, was the one who botched the UL in the first place?
Check with Ed Conrad but when has that ever really mattered?
Especially when we're treated to a link where they hang an elephant. I
sent it to ASPCA so they can go back in time and deal with those
individuals.
Mojo "choked up" Han
Ralph Jones
wrote:
In the good old days, they just let 'em out onto the tracks...
http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/spring2002/jumbo.html
rj
Keith F. Lynch
> In the good old days, they just let 'em out onto the tracks...
> http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/spring2002/jumbo.html
If all that remains of Jumbo is a patch of hide and a jar of ashes at
Tufts, why does the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History have what
they claim to be him on display?
Ralph Jones
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Ralph Jones <ra...@nomeking.kahm> wrote:
>> In the good old days, they just let 'em out onto the tracks...
>> http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/spring2002/jumbo.html
>
>If all that remains of Jumbo is a patch of hide and a jar of ashes at
>Tufts, why does the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History have what
>they claim to be him on display?
Well, hey, I remember driving past three or four museums in the
Fifties that had H*tl*r's armored touring car...
rj
Keith F. Lynch
Schicklgruber probably had several cars. But I doubt that Jumbo had
several bodies.
nancy13g
> Ralph Jones <ra...@nomeking.kahm> wrote:
> > In the good old days, they just let 'em out onto the tracks...
> >http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/spring2002/jumbo.html
>
> If all that remains of Jumbo is a patch of hide and a jar of ashes at
> Tufts, why does the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History have what
> they claim to be him on display?
Late to the thread, but here's an explanation (courtesy of the always
reliable Wikipedia):
Jumbo's skeleton was donated to the American Museum of Natural History
in New York City, New York, USA. The elephant's heart was sold to
Cornell University. Jumbo's hide was stuffed by William J. Critchley
and Carl Akeley, both of Ward's Natural Science, and the mounted
specimen traveled with Barnum's circus for a number of years. In 1889,
Barnum donated the stuffed Jumbo to Tufts University, where it was
displayed until destroyed by a fire in 1975, coincidentally a fate
that befell many of Barnum's exhibits during his own lifetime.
The great elephant's ashes are kept in a 14-ounce Peter Pan Crunchy
Peanut Butter jar in the office of the Tufts athletic director, while
his taxidermied tail, removed during earlier renovations, resides in
the holdings of the Tufts Digital Collections and Archives.[2] A
statue of an elephant, dubbed "Jumbo," was purchased from an amusement
park and placed on the Tufts campus after the fire.
Jon M
<nanc...@verizon.net> wrote:
>The great elephant's ashes are kept in a 14-ounce Peter Pan Crunchy
>Peanut Butter jar in the office of the Tufts athletic director, while
>his taxidermied tail, removed during earlier renovations, resides in
>the holdings of the Tufts Digital Collections and Archives.
There must be more to the elephants ashes than a 14 oz jar's worth. A
fully grown human's ashes take up more like a gallon jar or more. A
nelephant's ashes should be at least a couple gallons.
And while jar sizes change with the times, the peanut butter I'm
familiar with usually comes in 12 or 18 ounce jars.
Jon M
After an elephant's eaten all the peanut butter out of the jar, how
would he fit in?
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> There must be more to the elephants ashes than a 14 oz jar's worth. A
> fully grown human's ashes take up more like a gallon jar or more. A
> nelephant's ashes should be at least a couple gallons.
>
Are you sure about that? The ashes we receive at the Church office
usually come in a cardboard box measuring about 5 inches by 5 inches by
about 7 inches high.
charles
Jon M
Let's see... 7.48gals/cubic foot, cubic foot = 1728 cubic inches, so a
gallon = 231ish cubic inches. Your box is only 175 cubic inches. So
I'm about 30% off.
Even so, I bet an elephant's ashes still take up 500 cubic inches.
Jon "or more, if it's an African elephant" M
Keith F. Lynch
> There must be more to the elephants ashes than a 14 oz jar's worth.
The article said a jar's volume of ashes were scooped up from
the vicinity where the stuffed elephant had been. The jar almost
certainly contains a mixture of elephant ashes and other ashes.
Nobody ever claimed it contained nothing but elephant ashes or
that it contained all of the elephant's ashes.
Jon M
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Jon M <faceo...@omnicast.net> wrote:
>> There must be more to the elephants ashes than a 14 oz jar's worth.
>
>The article said a jar's volume of ashes were scooped up from
>the vicinity where the stuffed elephant had been. The jar almost
>certainly contains a mixture of elephant ashes and other ashes.
>Nobody ever claimed it contained nothing but elephant ashes or
>that it contained all of the elephant's ashes.
From Wikipedia:
]Jumbo's skeleton was donated to the American Museum of Natural
]History in New York City, New York, USA. The elephant's heart was
]sold to Cornell University. Jumbo's hide was stuffed by William J.
]Critchley and Carl Akeley, both of Ward's Natural Science, and the
]mounted specimen traveled with Barnum's circus for a number of years.
]In 1889, Barnum donated the stuffed Jumbo to Tufts University, where
]it was displayed until destroyed by a fire in 1975, coincidentally a
]fate that befell many of Barnum's exhibits during his own lifetime.
]The great elephant's ashes are kept in a 14-ounce Peter Pan Crunchy
]Peanut Butter jar in the office of the Tufts athletic director, while
]his taxidermied tail, removed during earlier renovations, resides in
]the holdings of the Tufts Digital Collections and Archives.[2] A
]statue of an elephant, dubbed "Jumbo," was purchased from an
]amusement park and placed on the Tufts campus after the fire. Jumbo
]became the university's mascot, and remains such to this day.
End Wikipedia
No, that article doesn't make any claims about where the fourteen oz
of PB & E came from at all. It seems to imply that this is a complete
accounting of the whereabouts of Jumbo's earthly remains, since it
lists the tail, heart and skin. But Charles and I both agree, I
think, that elephant cremains would come in at over 80 oz.
Jon "even after parted out" M
Chuk Goodin
They should just give them an overdose of LSD.
--
chuk
Keith F. Lynch
I vote for a giant fly-swatter.
Better yet, drop them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
I wonder how bright a meteor trail an elephant would cause.
Say, maybe that's what caused those mysterious lights over Sweden!
Unidentified Falling Pachyderms!
Lee Ayrton
There is an Orwell essay circa 1936 on his shooting a killer elephant in
india. It didn't go well for the elephant.
--
"If you can fake verisimilitude, you're home free."
Jon M offers an absolute truth on AFC-A
Nasti J
> There is an Orwell essay circa 1936 on his shooting a killer elephant in
> india. It didn't go well for the elephant.
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my
pajamas I'll never know."
Groucho Marx
njg
R H Draney
>
>On Dec 11, 9:47=A0am, Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.com.nul> wrote:
>
>> There is an Orwell essay circa 1936 on his shooting a killer elephant in
>
>
>
>
>"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my
>pajamas I'll never know."
>Groucho Marx
Took him a quarter of a century to get from one end of that quote to the other:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWFaxEkYmSc
....r
Lon
Large Sugary Donuts?
Lon "only works on the police elephants" Stowell