asthma in former times
Jack Campin - bogus address
diagnosed) before the last generation. Here is the table of
causes of death for London published in the _Scots Magazine_
in 1784 (p.698):
Diseases
Abort. and Stillb. ...................................... 518
Abscess ................................................... 1
Aged ................................................... 1240
Ague ...................................................... 8
Apoplexy and Sud. ....................................... 207
Asthma and Phthisick .................................... 377
Bedridden ................................................ 12
Bleeding .................................................. 4
Bloody Flux ............................................... 1
Bursten and Rupture ...................................... 17
Cancer ................................................... 43
Canker .................................................... 2
Chicken Pox ............................................... 2
Childbed ................................................ 133
Cholic, Gripes, Twisting of the Guts ...................... 9
Cold ...................................................... 3
Consumption ............................................ 4540
Convulsions ............................................ 4219
Cough, and Hooping-Cough ................................ 467
Dropsy .................................................. 830
Evil ..................................................... 13
Fever, ditto malignant, scarlet, spotted, and purples .. 1973
Fistula ................................................... 4
Flux ...................................................... 9
French Pox ............................................... 31
Gout ..................................................... 63
Gravel, Stone, and Strangury ............................. 35
Grief ..................................................... 3
Headach ................................................... 1
Headmouldsh, Horseshoehead, and Water in the Head ........ 15
Imposthume ................................................ 4
Inflammation ............................................ 198
Jaundice ................................................. 62
Livergrown ................................................ 4
Lunatic .................................................. 46
Measles .................................................. 29
Miscarriage ............................................... 3
Mortification ........................................... 136
Palsy .................................................... 66
Pleurisy ................................................. 15
Quinsy .................................................... 4
Rheumatism ................................................ 8
Scurvy .................................................... 4
Small Pox .............................................. 1759
Sore Throat ............................................... 6
Sores and Ulcers ......................................... 13
Stoppage in Stom. ........................................ 10
Surfeit ................................................... 1
Swelling .................................................. 1
Teeth ................................................... 369
Thrush ................................................... 65
Tympany ................................................... 1
Vomit, and Loosness ....................................... 2
Worms .................................................... 11
Casualties
Bit by a mad dog ............................... 2
Broken Limbs ................................... 3
Bruised ........................................ 2
Burnt ......................................... 14
Choaked ........................................ 1
Drowned ....................................... 97
Excessive Drinking ............................. 8
Executed ...................................... 11
Found Dead ..................................... 5
Killed by Falls, and several other Accidents .. 39
Killed themselves ............................. 23
Murdered ....................................... 4
Poisoned ....................................... 2
Scalded ........................................ 5
Starved ........................................ 1
Suffocated ..................................... 3
And for Edinburgh:
Aged ............ 100
Apoplexy .......... 2
Asthma ........... 17
Bowelhive ........ 37
Burnt ............. 1
Childbed .......... 3
Chincough ........ 35
Consumption ..... 229
Dropsy ............ 3
Drowned ........... 1
Executed .......... 1
Fever ........... 103
Found dead ........ 1
Gravel ............ 2
Killed by a fall .. 1
Measles .......... 34
Mortification ..... 1
Palsy ............. 4
Rupture ........... 1
Small pox ....... 123
Stillborn ........ 20
Suddenly ......... 18
Teething ......... 67
There was also a doctoral thesis on asthma presented at the University
of Edinburgh in that year.
I think I can see why medical romances weren't a popular genre back then
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Sevo Stille
> Grief ..................................................... 3
Sevo
Hugh Gibbons
Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Somebody here questioned whether asthma existed (or was often
> diagnosed) before the last generation. Here is the table of
> causes of death for London published in the _Scots Magazine_
> in 1784 (p.698):
>
> Diseases
>
> Abort. and Stillb. ...................................... 518
> Abscess ................................................... 1
> Aged ................................................... 1240
> Ague ...................................................... 8
> Apoplexy and Sud. ....................................... 207
> Asthma and Phthisick .................................... 377
>
> There was also a doctoral thesis on asthma presented at the University
> of Edinburgh in that year.
>
> I think I can see why medical romances weren't a popular genre back then
>
> ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
> Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
> <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
> stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Excellent! This establishes not only an early date for identification of
Asthma, but it's the 9th leading cause of death in 1784 London. Maybe
higher or lower incidence than the countryside. I understand London air
was pretty polluted at the time.
Hugh Gibbons
Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Evil ..................................................... 13
Coincidence? I think NOT!
John Gilmer
"Jack Campin - bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bogus-9152C4....@news.news.demon.net...
> Somebody here questioned whether asthma existed (or was often
> diagnosed) before the last generation.
WTF is/was the "last generation."
I know for a FACT that adults c 1960 were not only "diagnosed" but sometimes
actually died as a result of it.
David
<gil...@crosslink.net> typed furiously:
The claim, I made, was not that asthma did not exist but that the
apparent incidence had been increasing since the fifties, following
the increase in the use of germicidal/disinfecting detergents in the
home.
--
David
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
Duggy
> Gone are the days when you could still die of:
> > Grief ..................................................... 3
Still can, it's just death due to a profound emotional response to a
negative event.
===
= DUG.
===
Jack Campin - bogus address
> but it's the 9th leading cause of death in 1784 London. Maybe higher
> or lower incidence than the countryside. I understand London air
> was pretty polluted at the time.
I would guess it was higher in the countryside. One cause is allergic
reactions to moulds, and farmworkers' housing was usually damp, even
worse if roofs were thatched. A thatched roof is several tons of fungal
culture right over your head, and mould-induced asthma still affects
residents of thatched houses in England today, despite the fact that
most occupants of such are extremely wealthy.
Sevo Stille
> The claim, I made, was not that asthma did not exist but that the
> apparent incidence had been increasing since the fifties, following
> the increase in the use of germicidal/disinfecting detergents in the
> home.
The list does not prove the contrary. Something reasonably like the
current diagnostic classifications does only exist since the late 19th
century. The list is mostly symptomatic, with only a small fraction of
deaths attributed to a cause that can be identified with one single
currently diagnosed disease.
Most people back then "died" of consumption and convulsions, purely
symptomatic container classes. The killer number one at that time,
tuberculosis, is not identified as one single disease, heart diseases
were barely diagnosed at all (and if so, only by their secondary
symptom, insuffiency presumably accounted for most cases of dropsy), and
rheumatism and cancer were barely ever diagnosed - which does not imply
that they did not exist. "Asthma and Phthisick" in that list is a
symptomatic diagnosis as well, and will have covered the whole breadth
of reasons for a bronchial obstruction or lung insuffiency (cancer,
tuberculosis, emphysema etc.) besides asthma.
Sevo
Charles Wm. Dimmick
My brother Paul was diagnosed with asthma back around 1950.
By about 1960 he had outgrown it.
Charles
Jack Campin - bogus address
> attributed to a cause that can be identified with one single
> currently diagnosed disease.
>
> Most people back then "died" of consumption and convulsions, purely
> symptomatic container classes. The killer number one at that time,
> tuberculosis, is not identified as one single disease
It's consumption. Distinctive enough that mistakes can't have been
common.
> heart diseases were barely diagnosed at all (and if so, only by
> their secondary symptom, insuffiency presumably accounted for most
> cases of dropsy), and rheumatism and cancer were barely ever
> diagnosed - which does not imply that they did not exist.
If by "rheumatism" you mean rheumatoid arthritis, it would rarely
be named as a cause of death even now. There is, I think, some
evidence that it *didn't* exist as a significant problem before
1800 - an infectious agent introduced then has been suspected of
causing it (or of being an essential co-factor in most cases).
It's such a distinctive disease you would expect doctors to have
been writing about it for 2000 years if they were seeing it.
The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the same
time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of manic-depressive
illness back to classical times, but no progressive illness of
early-adult onset involving thought disorder, desocialization,
delusions, auditory hallucinations and sporadic violence which
was anywhere near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
> "Asthma and Phthisick" in that list is a symptomatic diagnosis
> as well, and will have covered the whole breadth of reasons for
> a bronchial obstruction or lung insuffiency (cancer, tuberculosis,
> emphysema etc.) besides asthma.
The obstructive symptoms of asthma are distinct from the others -
occurring spasmodically, and making it harder to breathe out than
in - so I'd bet diagnosis wasn't all that far off modern standards.
Maybe I'll go look up that 1784 doctoral thesis (I think it's in
Latin but I should remember enough of that to get the drift).
John Varela
<cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
> > I know for a FACT that adults c 1960 were not only "diagnosed" but sometimes
> > actually died as a result of it.
>
> My brother Paul was diagnosed with asthma back around 1950.
> By about 1960 he had outgrown it.
In the early 1940s the girl next door, about 8 years old, was sent to
live with relatives in what was supposed to be a better climate for
asthma victims. (St. Louis instead of New Orleans; I find it hard to
believe that St. Louis is significantly better for allergies than New
Orleans but that's what they did.)
--
John Varela
Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email
TeaLady (Mari C.)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0614-1, 04/04/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
> The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the
> same time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of
> manic-depressive illness back to classical times, but no
> progressive illness of early-adult onset involving thought
> disorder, desocialization, delusions, auditory
> hallucinations and sporadic violence which was anywhere
> near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
>
Witches, possession, evil - a whole host of things could have
been used to describe schizophrenia. The crazy young man
wandering the moors and talking to invisible beings, angels or
demons, could be a sufferer. Or, could be suffering from any
number of things.
--
TeaLady (mari)
"The principal of Race is meant to embody and express the utter
negation of human freedom, the denial of equal rights, a
challenge in the face of mankind." A. Kolnai
Avast ye scurvy dogs ! Thar be no disease in this message.
No 33 Secretary
news:Xns979CB26...@130.133.1.4:
> Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:bogus-76D74D....@news.news.demon.net:
> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0614-1, 04/04/2006), Outbound message
> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
>
>> The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the
>> same time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of
>> manic-depressive illness back to classical times, but no
>> progressive illness of early-adult onset involving thought
>> disorder, desocialization, delusions, auditory
>> hallucinations and sporadic violence which was anywhere
>> near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
>>
>
> Witches, possession, evil - a whole host of things could have
> been used to describe schizophrenia.
Indeed. The symptoms above describe half the nobility of Europe for several
hundred years.
--
"So there is no third law of Terrydynamics."
-- William Hyde
Terry Austin
David DeLaney
>Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the
>> same time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of
>> manic-depressive illness back to classical times, but no
>> progressive illness of early-adult onset involving thought
>> disorder, desocialization, delusions, auditory
>> hallucinations and sporadic violence which was anywhere
>> near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
>
>Witches, possession, evil - a whole host of things could have
>been used to describe schizophrenia. The crazy young man
>wandering the moors and talking to invisible beings, angels or
>demons, could be a sufferer. Or, could be suffering from any
>number of things.
Also, monks.
Dave "any sufficiently advanced religious mania can be indistinguishable from
magic^H^H^H^H^Hother mental illness" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Jack Campin - bogus address
"TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:bogus-76D74D....@news.news.demon.net:
> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0614-1, 04/04/2006), Outbound message
> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
>
> > The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the
> > same time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of
> > manic-depressive illness back to classical times, but no
> > progressive illness of early-adult onset involving thought
> > disorder, desocialization, delusions, auditory
> > hallucinations and sporadic violence which was anywhere
> > near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
> Witches, possession, evil - a whole host of things could have
> been used to describe schizophrenia. The crazy young man
> wandering the moors and talking to invisible beings, angels or
> demons, could be a sufferer. Or, could be suffering from any
> number of things.
No. Schizophrenia is *common* - about 1% of the British population
has it. It's a major public health problem, and it manifests itself
at an early enough age that it should be obvious no matter what the
general mortality stats are. There aren't any mediaeval records of
a similar disease with similar incidence. (Sporadic occurrences,
yes, but it seems to have multiple aetiologies so you'd expect some
of them to date back further than others).
Look at early-modern witch trial records and where they suggest
functional mental illness at all, it's bipolar disorder. The
witch craze was shortlived - in most places just a few major
cases spanning a few years out of the period 1480-1750, with
decades in between outbreaks and no cases in the Middle Ages.
A disease that had been endemic since ancient times couldn't
fit that temporal pattern.
Duggy
> The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the same
> time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of manic-depressive
> illness back to classical times, but no progressive illness of
> early-adult onset involving thought disorder, desocialization,
> delusions, auditory hallucinations and sporadic violence which
> was anywhere near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
I don't know, that sound like a description of a lot of famous leaders
of the time...
===
= DUG.
===
David Winsemius
76D74D.171...@news.news.demon.net:
>> heart diseases were barely diagnosed at all (and if so, only by
>> their secondary symptom, insuffiency presumably accounted for most
>> cases of dropsy), and rheumatism and cancer were barely ever
>> diagnosed - which does not imply that they did not exist.
>
> If by "rheumatism" you mean rheumatoid arthritis, it would rarely
> be named as a cause of death even now.
true enough.
> There is, I think, some
> evidence that it *didn't* exist as a significant problem before
> 1800 - an infectious agent introduced then has been suspected of
> causing it (or of being an essential co-factor in most cases).
> It's such a distinctive disease you would expect doctors to have
> been writing about it for 2000 years if they were seeing it.
>
You have in the past come up citeless after making medical
pronouncements. May I ask for a few cites in this instance? Perhaps
medical history is more your forte?
--
David Winsemius
John Gilmer
> In the early 1940s the girl next door, about 8 years old, was sent to
> live with relatives in what was supposed to be a better climate for
> asthma victims. (St. Louis instead of New Orleans; I find it hard to
> believe that St. Louis is significantly better for allergies than New
> Orleans but that's what they did.)
Much/most of St. Louis is quite high and dry even when the Mississippi is in
flood.
Much/most of NOLA is below sea level. I suspect that NOLA has a lot more
black mold spores in the air.
Or course, St. Louis ain't Arizona.
Hugh Gibbons
Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the same
> time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of manic-depressive
> illness back to classical times, but no progressive illness of
> early-adult onset involving thought disorder, desocialization,
> delusions, auditory hallucinations and sporadic violence which
> was anywhere near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
What's missing is DETAILED DESCRIPTIONS of progression of the
disease over time. That doesn't mean it wasn't present nor that
it wasn't as common as today. Remember, before a certain time,
mental illness wasn't even recognized as ILLNESS. It was considered
a whole different category of problem.
That aside, there were plenty of descriptions of people exhibiting
symptoms of schizophrenia.
Lon
It appears to have been a common childhood affliction long before that,
with even being a common diagnosis for newborns. Common enough to have
been mentioned in a popular song from long before the 50's....
Lon "yessir asthma baby..." Stowell
David
<spres...@yahoo.com> typed furiously:
>Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>news:bogus-76D74D....@news.news.demon.net:
>X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0614-1, 04/04/2006), Outbound message
>X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
>
>> The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the
>> same time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of
>> manic-depressive illness back to classical times, but no
>> progressive illness of early-adult onset involving thought
>> disorder, desocialization, delusions, auditory
>> hallucinations and sporadic violence which was anywhere
>> near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
>>
>
>Witches, possession, evil - a whole host of things could have
>been used to describe schizophrenia. The crazy young man
>wandering the moors and talking to invisible beings, angels or
>demons, could be a sufferer. Or, could be suffering from any
>number of things.
Or a Prophet!
TOliver
"TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> The other major disease that seems to arrived at about the
>> same time was schizophrenia. There are accounts of
>> manic-depressive illness back to classical times, but no
>> progressive illness of early-adult onset involving thought
>> disorder, desocialization, delusions, auditory
>> hallucinations and sporadic violence which was anywhere
>> near as prevalent as schizophrenia is today.
>>
I'm not sure what else Shakespeare must have been attempting to describe in
a couple of his characterizations.
As for the early adult onset, there may be your key.
Folks demonstrated the symptoms of onset, unmedicated grew worse amd more
intolerable to the world around them, and were done in by others or their
own peculiar actions. I'm not sure that many severe schizophrenics would
have lasted long in premodern societies. On the other hand, extremely
powerful families, royalty or nobility, may have exercised the capacity to
preserve and protect the emntally ill among them (or even to preserve and
potect monsters and murderous sociopaths.
>
> Witches, possession, evil - a whole host of things could have
> been used to describe schizophrenia. The crazy young man
> wandering the moors and talking to invisible beings, angels or
> demons, could be a sufferer. Or, could be suffering from any
> number of things.
>
A host of classical sources including the Old Testament certainly provide
credibility for the existence of all sorts of variously described but
potentially identifiable conditions. I don't see how we can exclude
schizophrenia from among them without better evidence, no more than we can
realistically claim asthma to be some condition peculiar to the modern
world. Having had a baby sister born in 1953 with severe infant asthma, I
can voice the considered opinion that without substantial medical advances
only just available then, she would not have survived infancy.
I suspect that serious asthmatics born before the mid20th century had but a
tiny chance of surviving early childhood (and that their causes of death
were ascribed to a gamut of ailments including but not limited to asthma).
Claiming schizophrenia as a late arrival (perhaps connected with a modern
causal agent) seems to me as unsupportable as claiming that folks didn't die
from rapidly spreading infections of the appendix in the 15th century,
because we've no record of appendectomies being performed to alleviate the
realtively specific symptoms during that period.
TM "Folks no crazier now than back then." Oliver
Duggy
> TM "Folks no crazier now than back then." Oliver
Speak for yourself.
===
= DUG.
===
grey...@gmaildo.tocom
>
> I suspect that serious asthmatics born before the mid20th century had but a
> tiny chance of surviving early childhood (and that their causes of death
> were ascribed to a gamut of ailments including but not limited to asthma).
>
> Claiming schizophrenia as a late arrival (perhaps connected with a modern
> causal agent) seems to me as unsupportable as claiming that folks didn't die
> from rapidly spreading infections of the appendix in the 15th century,
> because we've no record of appendectomies being performed to alleviate the
> realtively specific symptoms during that period.
>
Inward Pain.' Re mental illness, "An anatomy of melancoly", written
1621.. Never read, to depressing.
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
Ken Ward
wrote:
A fairly common "cause of death" for infants & small children up until
the 20C was "failure to thrive". These days that would be diagnosed
as lactose intolerance or other food allergy.
There are quite a few records of wealthy and/or noble families having
relatives locked away for various mental illnesses. The
convent/monastery was also a useful place to park the poorer members
of society so afflicted.
Hatunen
<kwar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>A fairly common "cause of death" for infants & small children up until
>the 20C was "failure to thrive". These days that would be diagnosed
>as lactose intolerance or other food allergy.
As soem AFUers know. my wife and I are licensed foster parents
specializing in the care of medically fragile infants. I assure
you that "ailure to thrive" is sgtill the diagnosis for many of
the children who come into our home, or job being to make them
thrive.
>There are quite a few records of wealthy and/or noble families having
>relatives locked away for various mental illnesses. The
>convent/monastery was also a useful place to park the poorer members
>of society so afflicted.
It was also a way of getting rid of inconvenient heirs.
Particularly in Russia.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Hugh Gibbons
Hatunen <hatu...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 22:21:03 GMT, Ken Ward
> <kwar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>
> >A fairly common "cause of death" for infants & small children up until
> >the 20C was "failure to thrive". These days that would be diagnosed
> >as lactose intolerance or other food allergy.
>
> As soem AFUers know. my wife and I are licensed foster parents
> specializing in the care of medically fragile infants. I assure
> you that "ailure to thrive" is sgtill the diagnosis for many of
> the children who come into our home, or job being to make them
> thrive.
Basically, it means they're not eating right, correct? For which
there can be numerous causes, e.g. allergies, viral infection,
neurological disorders, chemical disorders.
Heckuva demanding job. I bet in a considerable number of cases
you never really found out why they had a problem.
> >There are quite a few records of wealthy and/or noble families having
> >relatives locked away for various mental illnesses. The
> >convent/monastery was also a useful place to park the poorer members
> >of society so afflicted.
>
> It was also a way of getting rid of inconvenient heirs.
> Particularly in Russia.
Inconvenient potentially rival heirs. Much better than killing
them, too, because if the eldest should die, you can extract a
brother from the monastery, and better than sending them off to
Belorussia or Kiev where they might build a rival power base.
Hugh Gibbons
David <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
I keep telling people this is not-for-prophet.
Dave Griffith
> David wrote:
>> The claim, I made, was not that asthma did not exist but that the
>> apparent incidence had been increasing since the fifties, following
>> the increase in the use of germicidal/disinfecting detergents in the
>> home.
> The list does not prove the contrary. Something reasonably like the
> current diagnostic classifications does only exist since the late 19th
> century. The list is mostly symptomatic, with only a small fraction of
> deaths attributed to a cause that can be identified with one single
> currently diagnosed disease.
I found it interesting that there was a fatality attributed to
"headache".
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'
Madalch
> "headache".
What? You've never had a migraine so intense that you wanted to remove
the painful parts with an axe?
You must not have kids.
Thomas Prufer
>>There are quite a few records of wealthy and/or noble families having
>>relatives locked away for various mental illnesses. The
>>convent/monastery was also a useful place to park the poorer members
>>of society so afflicted.
>
>It was also a way of getting rid of inconvenient heirs.
>Particularly in Russia.
>
It's still done today, So I Have Been Told. Not only heirs, but wealthy
relatives and parents. being shoved off into the closed ward, with the children
then being able to take over the business or plunder the accounts.
I was told this by someone who knows someone who specializes in getting sane
people who have been committed for such reasons back out of institutions.
Happens all the time, they say.
Has some UL features, with a nice bit of conspiracy thrown in.
Thomas Prufer
R H Draney
>
>> I found it interesting that there was a fatality attributed to
>> "headache".
>
>What? You've never had a migraine so intense that you wanted to remove
>the painful parts with an axe?
I sense a misunderstanding...the person who gets the headache kills the person
who gave it to him....
R H "at least that's always been my policy" Draney
--
We are the parents our people warned us about.
Hugh Gibbons
dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu (Dave Griffith) wrote:
Possibly an abscess or brain tumor. In many cases, the identified
causes according to medicine prior to very modern times was simply
a description of the symptoms they had exhibited prior to death.
Hugh Gibbons
"Madalch" <tres...@gmail.com> wrote:
No, that would have been listed as murder.
Lara
> A fairly common "cause of death" for infants & small children up until
> the 20C was "failure to thrive". These days that would be diagnosed
> as lactose intolerance or other food allergy.
Lactose intolerance as a major cause of infant death? Do you have a cite
for that? Congenital lactose intolerance is vanishingly rare.
Lara
Hatunen
<pa...@myhouse.com> wrote:
>In article <o65b32dd6ps4ss619...@4ax.com>,
> Hatunen <hatu...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 22:21:03 GMT, Ken Ward
>> <kwar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >A fairly common "cause of death" for infants & small children up until
>> >the 20C was "failure to thrive". These days that would be diagnosed
>> >as lactose intolerance or other food allergy.
>>
>> As soem AFUers know. my wife and I are licensed foster parents
>> specializing in the care of medically fragile infants. I assure
>> you that "ailure to thrive" is sgtill the diagnosis for many of
>> the children who come into our home, or job being to make them
>> thrive.
>
>Basically, it means they're not eating right, correct? For which
>there can be numerous causes, e.g. allergies, viral infection,
>neurological disorders, chemical disorders.
>
>Heckuva demanding job. I bet in a considerable number of cases
>you never really found out why they had a problem.
By the time the babies leave us, within maybe six months or a
year, they've usually put on weight and are considered to be
thriving just fine.
TOliver
"Lara" <{nospam}@waawa.cx> wrote in message
news:1hdg4sh.1v995sb31jxbaN%{nospam}@waawa.cx...
I agree with Lara. The cases I've seen or had anecdotally described were
far more likely to come from infant diarrhea (resulting essentially in
"death by thirst"), simple starvation, inadequate nutrition over extended
periods, malnutrition, entirely improper nutrition, the classic "failure to
thrive" syndrome of almost complete lack of attention and nurturing
(amazingly potentially deadly, and likely part of the history of some of the
kids the Hatunens foster, a grim task), and all sorts of untreated and
debilitating minor infections, either repiratory or other, in most cases one
or more of the above combining to cause death. I'd rank lactose intolerance
somewhere below insect bites (actually statistically significant) and
rat-gnawing as identifiable causes.
For our grand parents, "fevers of unknown origin" in infants and "ague" in
adults covered a wide variety, but folks did die of influenza long before
1918, that year's mutation being a particulaly nasty bugger.
I'm surprised that no one to date has brought up the statistical clanger,
that in "olden times", a lot more folk passed before they became likely to
develop some of the killer conditions to which we are subject today.
Anybody living close to or entering Gulf of Mexico and its US ports was
subject to exposure to malaria, likely to insure if contracted that a white
male wouldn't live long enough to die from cancer of the prostate. The
extension of lifespans of the hypertensive in the last few decades has
changed actuarial tables among some cultural and economic groups.
Obviously, today, leukemia survivors abound, but how would a physican
describe a death from that condition in 1800. Then there's Jack's London
and Edinburgh statistics. Even today, although maybe not in London or
Scotland's capital and grandest city, a Hell of a lot of folks "pass" wihout
benefit of much specific medical inquiry (around here, the Justice of the
Peace signs Death Certificates and need not consult a physician or
pathologist). How many during the period to which Jack's stats apply were
attended at death by a physician or had any post mortem exam? More likely,
Old Ian, the Landlord, reported that poor Nell had passed in the throes of
devilishly-inspired flummox, and the clerk at the Recorder's Office (by
whatever name) had inserted "Fit of Hysteria" as an appropriate cause of
death
TM "Spending too much time in afu countering wild speculation." Oliver
Hugh Gibbons
Hatunen <hatu...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:04:39 GMT, Hugh Gibbons
> <pa...@myhouse.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <o65b32dd6ps4ss619...@4ax.com>,
> > Hatunen <hatu...@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 22:21:03 GMT, Ken Ward
> >> <kwar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >A fairly common "cause of death" for infants & small children up until
> >> >the 20C was "failure to thrive". These days that would be diagnosed
> >> >as lactose intolerance or other food allergy.
> >>
> >> As soem AFUers know. my wife and I are licensed foster parents
> >> specializing in the care of medically fragile infants. I assure
> >> you that "ailure to thrive" is sgtill the diagnosis for many of
> >> the children who come into our home, or job being to make them
> >> thrive.
> >
> >Basically, it means they're not eating right, correct? For which
> >there can be numerous causes, e.g. allergies, viral infection,
> >neurological disorders, chemical disorders.
> >
> >Heckuva demanding job. I bet in a considerable number of cases
> >you never really found out why they had a problem.
>
> By the time the babies leave us, within maybe six months or a
> year, they've usually put on weight and are considered to be
> thriving just fine.
I expected so. But do some of them just get better when you're caring
for them and you're not sure why, or do you always have to figure out
what the problem is and correct it?
Hugh
Hatunen
<pa...@myhouse.com> wrote:
To some extent we simply don't know. We, my wife, that is, spends
a lot of time taking our babies to the best pediatricains she can
find and having formulas adjusted and whatnot. Aside from that,
they simply get better with lots of TLC. Remember, though, that
any baby with obvious problems won't be released from the
hospital until it's cleared up. Remember, too, that we are
*foster* parents; the babies that come to us have been removd
from the custody of their parents for a variety of reasons, and
one of the main reasons is drug use by the mother, so that many
of our babies became addicted in the womb. This also usually
results in premature birth. Once we get them through withdrawal,
things improve fairly rapidly.
Hatunen
<tolive...@Hot.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"Lara" <{nospam}@waawa.cx> wrote in message
>news:1hdg4sh.1v995sb31jxbaN%{nospam}@waawa.cx...
>> Ken Ward <kwar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>> A fairly common "cause of death" for infants & small children up until
>>> the 20C was "failure to thrive". These days that would be diagnosed
>>> as lactose intolerance or other food allergy.
>>
>> Lactose intolerance as a major cause of infant death? Do you have a cite
>> for that? Congenital lactose intolerance is vanishingly rare.
>>
>
>I agree with Lara. The cases I've seen or had anecdotally described were
>far more likely to come from infant diarrhea (resulting essentially in
>"death by thirst"), simple starvation, inadequate nutrition over extended
>periods, malnutrition, entirely improper nutrition, the classic "failure to
>thrive" syndrome of almost complete lack of attention and nurturing
>(amazingly potentially deadly, and likely part of the history of some of the
>kids the Hatunens foster, a grim task),
More than some.
>and all sorts of untreated and
>debilitating minor infections, either repiratory or other, in most cases one
>or more of the above combining to cause death.
A lot of the babies we receive are very premature.
>I'd rank lactose intolerance
>somewhere below insect bites (actually statistically significant) and
>rat-gnawing as identifiable causes.
We do ocassionallly get a babies that cannot handle milk and we
have to put them on a soy formula. I certainly wouldn't classify
it as "rare", but rather as "uncommon".
>For our grand parents, "fevers of unknown origin" in infants and "ague" in
>adults covered a wide variety, but folks did die of influenza long before
>1918, that year's mutation being a particulaly nasty bugger.
Up into the early 20th century infant mortality rates were pretty
high from a variety of infections and diseases, since there were
no aantibiotics yet.
Simon Slavin
<Xns979CB26...@130.133.1.4>:
> Witches, possession, evil - a whole host of things could have
> been used to describe schizophrenia. The crazy young man
> wandering the moors and talking to invisible beings, angels or
> demons, could be a sufferer. Or, could be suffering from any
> number of things.
Don't forget 'cats stealing the breath of children'.
The primary symptom of Asthma is that you can't breath easily.
Asthma is triggered by allergies.
Many people are allergic to cats (more precisely, the bugs that live in
cat hair).
So children died of cats. Were the cats stealing their breath, or were
they just triggering allergies ? It's all a matter of interpretation.
Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk
Sevo Stille
> I'm surprised that no one to date has brought up the statistical clanger,
> that in "olden times", a lot more folk passed before they became likely to
> develop some of the killer conditions to which we are subject today.
Not really - much of the low average life expectancy was due to the
extremely high infant death rate. Around 1800 the life expectancy in
England was 36, but adults had a fairly reasonable chance of living to
50 or beyond - in Webster's Scottish census of 1755, 5% of the
population were over 65.
> Obviously, today, leukemia survivors abound, but how would a physican
> describe a death from that condition in 1800.
Consumption, cough, fever or pleurisy - they'd most likely die from
pneumonia or a reactivation of their dormant tuberculosis, without any
opportunity to display the symptoms of later leukemia stages.
Sevo
Lara
> <tolive...@Hot.rr.com> wrote:
> >I'd rank lactose intolerance
> >somewhere below insect bites (actually statistically significant) and
> >rat-gnawing as identifiable causes.
>
> We do ocassionallly get a babies that cannot handle milk and we
> have to put them on a soy formula. I certainly wouldn't classify
> it as "rare", but rather as "uncommon".
I'll wager they have cows milk protein intolerance/allergy, not lactose
intolerance.
Lara
Hatunen
wrote:
Could be. Since we never see mother's milk, I can't be sure.
Paul Ding
something that included:
My late first wife was charge nurse in an intensive care nursery. She
told me that they had a lot of "failure to thrive" babies. It was her
opinion that it was caused by emotional detachment and/or autism.
There is a rather celebrated case where some clinical research was
spoiled by a nurse on nights, who picked up crying babies, held them,
rocked them, and talked to them. They didn't die was they were
expected to. In fact, they started to thrive. She almost
singlehandedly reversed the school of thought which said that babies
did best if they were raised scientifically, with a maximum of
sanitation and a minimum of human contact.
I've been impressed by Mr. Hatunen for a number of years, and it does
not surprise me at all that he attracted a woman of the calibre he
describes.
--
AmishHosting.com
Hatunen
<lanc...@paulding.net> wrote:
>There is a rather celebrated case where some clinical research was
>spoiled by a nurse on nights, who picked up crying babies, held them,
>rocked them, and talked to them. They didn't die was they were
>expected to. In fact, they started to thrive. She almost
>singlehandedly reversed the school of thought which said that babies
>did best if they were raised scientifically, with a maximum of
>sanitation and a minimum of human contact.
But it creates problems for us, as well as the bio mother if she
takes the baby home. The babies get used to such intense TLC and
it becomes a struggle at home to get the baby to finally learn to
sleep on a schedule that affords sleep for the parents. It can
also create babies that demand to be held all the time.
Ken Ward
Anecdotal - discussion between a third generation midwife [Graduate
nurse with post-graduate certificate in midwifery] and her mother
[triple certificate nurse with certificate in midwifery]. They were
comparing the use of the term failure to thrive as a generic catch-all
pre-WWII with its much reduced use post WWII and a corresponding
increase in other diagnoses such as dietary, infectious, etc.
I did not mean to imply that lactose intolerance was a major cause;
however, it was their perception that the incidence of a diagnosis of
lactose intolerance had significantly increased post-WWII in
Australia. Certainly, it has become the practice at some hospitals to
treat asiatic children as potentially susceptable to lactose
intolerance immediately on birth [again anecdotal].
The incidence of drug affected newborn appears to have increased post
WWII in Australia. While these babies clearly do not thrive because
of the withdrawal & probable neglect by the parent, they are more
likely to be diagnosed as drug-dependent & neglected rather than a
generic term suchj as failure to thrive these days.
I suspect but cannot cite evidence that emotional neglect has waned
with the reduction in family size. Certainly it appears these days
that almost every child is treated from the start as vitally important
with a heavy investiture of emotional & physical capital, simply
because there are so few of them in each family. Reviewing the
attitudes expressed in literature regarding large families & the very
young seems to indicate that serious emotional investment did not
occur until the child had lived for a few years, particularly after ta
few had been born.
grey...@gmaildo.tocom
When I was young (Ireland) about 50 years ago, there were a whole lot
of diseases that seem to have been renamed or disappeared.. maneric
was one, and every area had someone with a `cure'. A neighbour had a
growth on the back of his hand, which was treated with a dressing that
removed it, I remember being shown it in the last stages, with `roots'
like a tree holding the lump to the hand. Ghastly. The person that
mixed up the dressing told the man that the dressing would cure the
`tumor', but it would be very stressfull, and AFAIRemember, the man
died soon after. There was a woman that lived way back in the bog
that used to make mixtures like that up to the 1970's, the local
doctor got one analysed and discovered that it contained large amounts
of cadmium (as Paracelsus advised hundreds of years before), whether
this cadmium was derived from chemicals or through plants that would
concentrate it from their environment, I don't know. There were a
whole lot of `cures', one was getting your breastbone raised, whatever
that meant, two old people were being driven to get their breastbones
raised when the driver, almost as old as them, crossed a major road
without stopping and the two old people were killed.
TOliver
"Ken Ward" <kwar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote ...
>
> I suspect but cannot cite evidence that emotional neglect has waned
> with the reduction in family size.
At least in some US culture/subculture, not accompanied by a drop in the
birthrate for very young mothers (accidental or unintentional pregnancy) and
among unmarried/never married mothers, the category(ies) most likely for
infants with health and/or "thriving" problems. Dave mentions the
"over-attention" syndrome, the babies held to much or not permitted to cry
without immediate parental reaction, but certainly the oppositie is equally
valid.
A sort of Hatunenite, I'd go as far as claiming that you can't nor should
you attempt to separate emotional neglect from physical neglect. While dogs
and infants are not completely analogous, my male Jack Russell, Elijah, is
mightily affectionate, but his companion, Hannah, retreived from a
neglectful puppyhood, only easily sinks into blissfull relaxation when my
wife or I puts a hand on her chest/shoulder. Un-nurtured in a critical
period, she maintains enough of remembrance of same to seek to prevent any
reoccurrence. For both dogs and children the border between habit and
learned conduct remains hazy and hard to define. Dangerous pitbulls and
criminal sociopaths both required/received a lot of negative reinforcement
along the way...
> Certainly it appears these days
> that almost every child is treated from the start as vitally important
> with a heavy investiture of emotional & physical capital, simply
> because there are so few of them in each family.
I question the validity of that conclusion. I grew up in large household
with four younger sisters, a couple of my mother's sisters who boarded while
working on MAs, etc.. In "big tribe" environments, sibling attention goes a
long way toward offsetting any lack of maternal care. I've read somewhere
that the incidence of mental illness in adulthood was statistically less
likely among children raised in large households. Certainly, literature and
other sources seem to highlight the hazards faced by bearers of the "only
child" mantle. Affectionate abuse is better than no affection or the
opoosite "over-affection".
> Reviewing the
> attitudes expressed in literature regarding large families & the very
> young seems to indicate that serious emotional investment did not
> occur until the child had lived for a few years, particularly after ta
> few had been born.
I've two objections to the contention....
The perspectives of "olden times" become less and less applicable as the
physical changes of "modern times" make them increasingly irrelevant. At
some point, 1945?, earlier?, Quien sabe?, families began to expect that
infants would survive and were investment class assets.
If you've ever watched little girls (and even some little boys), 4-11 years
old (and older if they haven't discovered clothes, boys, peer, etc.)
interact with infant siblings in activities ranging from attempts to
stimulate "play", language, motor skills, etc., all the way to outright
"imitation mothering" (and in many homes, not so imitation, the "older
sister more competent than Mom" syndrome not unknown to many observers), an
absence of emotional investment is not readily apparent. The concept isa
recurrent theme in 19th C. American literature (and the movies and TV,
reflections if occasionally a bit distorted of society).
TM "Victim of oldest child/only brother over-attention." Oliver
Simon Slavin
<44347b9b$0$16...@dingus.crosslink.net>:
> > In the early 1940s the girl next door, about 8 years old, was sent to
> > live with relatives in what was supposed to be a better climate for
> > asthma victims. (St. Louis instead of New Orleans; I find it hard to
> > believe that St. Louis is significantly better for allergies than New
> > Orleans but that's what they did.)
>
> Much/most of St. Louis is quite high and dry even when the Mississippi
> is in flood.
>
> Much/most of NOLA is below sea level. I suspect that NOLA has a lot
> more black mold spores in the air.
Damp in the air is good for some allergens and bad for others. NOLA might
encourage spores but it'll lay the dust.
Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk
John Varela
<slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Damp in the air is good for some allergens and bad for others. NOLA might
> encourage spores but it'll lay the dust.
Dust? In New Orleans? Might as well look for gravel.
Your remark remnds me that in the 1940s many New Orleans residential
streets, incuding the one in front of our house, were surfaced with
not gravel, because there is no nearby source of gravel, but clam
shells barged in from some island in the Gulf of Mexico. There was
quite a lot of dust raised from the clam shells. From time to time
the city would send a truck around to spray some black petroleum
liquid on the clamshells to lay the dust; this was usually right
around election time. Children then tracked black goo into the
houses. Sixty years later, the streets that once were surfaced with
clam shells are all paved, with the consequence that water can't seep
into the ground and ordinary rainstorms can cause minor flooding, even
in high ground areas that weren't flooded by Katrina.
--
John Varela
Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Your remark remnds me that in the 1940s many New Orleans residential
> streets, incuding the one in front of our house, were surfaced with
> not gravel, because there is no nearby source of gravel, but clam
> shells barged in from some island in the Gulf of Mexico.
If I remember correctly, the clam was _Rangia_ _cuneata_ and they
were dredged from the floor of Lake Pontchartrain.
http://www.jaxshells.org/rangia.htm
At one time, there were seven dredge boats working the lake 24 hours per
day, 7 days per week. Each dredge had a 30 in diameter suction pipe that
extended down into the bottom of the lake.
Charles
Hugh Gibbons
John Varela
You are no doubt correct about that. The "island in the Gulf" story
is what I was told as a child, and that was good enough for me.
John Varela
wrote:
> > At one time, there were seven dredge boats working the lake 24 hours per
> > day, 7 days per week. Each dredge had a 30 in diameter suction pipe that
> > extended down into the bottom of the lake.
> Why'd they quit? Run out of clams?
I don't really know, having left New Orleans for school in 1951, but
at least part of the reason was that they asphalted the streets. This
one would think would be an improvement, and it did reduce dust and
maybe cost as well, but it led to flooding. By coincidence, one of my
sons married a New Orleans girl that he met in New York, and for a few
years they lived in New Orleans's Uptown area, a couple of blocks on
the river side of St. Charles Avenue. This was one of the older,
high-ground areas that Katrina did not flood. But on more than one
occasion they had a foot or more of water in the street after a
rainstorm. That sort of thing didn't happen 60 years ago; at worst
there would be a few inches of water at a low street intersection.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Damned if I know. I haven't lived in New Orleans since 1966,
and I kinda lost track of things there.
Charles
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:13:35 UTC, Hugh Gibbons <pa...@myhouse.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>At one time, there were seven dredge boats working the lake 24 hours per
>>>day, 7 days per week. Each dredge had a 30 in diameter suction pipe that
>>>extended down into the bottom of the lake.
>
>
>>Why'd they quit? Run out of clams?
>
>
> I don't really know, having left New Orleans for school in 1951, but
> at least part of the reason was that they asphalted the streets. This
> one would think would be an improvement, and it did reduce dust and
> maybe cost as well, but it led to flooding. By coincidence, one of my
> sons married a New Orleans girl that he met in New York, and for a few
> years they lived in New Orleans's Uptown area, a couple of blocks on
> the river side of St. Charles Avenue.
Any more detail as to where they lived? We used to be on Pitt Street,
just behind the St. George and the Dragon Church, at the edge of the
old Garden District, between Louisiana and Napoleon.
Charles
Simon Slavin
719E2A.082...@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com>:
> dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu (Dave Griffith) wrote:
>
> > I found it interesting that there was a fatality attributed to
> > "headache".
>
> Possibly an abscess or brain tumor. In many cases, the identified
> causes according to medicine prior to very modern times was simply
> a description of the symptoms they had exhibited prior to death.
Yeah. I was thinking that the last symptom reported was probably a
migraine or something. That list reports a lot of people dying from
'teeth'.
The other thing is that some were reported as 'Casualties: found dead'.
To us that's not a cause of death, but to them that's all they need to
report.
Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk
Leonard Blaisdell
Simon Slavin <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> On 07/04/2006, Hugh Gibbons wrote in message <party-
> 719E2A.082...@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com>:
> > Possibly an abscess or brain tumor. In many cases, the identified
> > causes according to medicine prior to very modern times was simply
> > a description of the symptoms they had exhibited prior to death.
>
> Yeah. I was thinking that the last symptom reported was probably a
> migraine or something. That list reports a lot of people dying from
> 'teeth'.
>
> The other thing is that some were reported as 'Casualties: found dead'.
> To us that's not a cause of death, but to them that's all they need to
> report.
Strokes may cause acute short-lasting headaches where the unfortunate
souls last words are 'headache'.
leo
John Varela
<cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
> Any more detail as to where they lived? We used to be on Pitt Street,
> just behind the St. George and the Dragon Church, at the edge of the
> old Garden District, between Louisiana and Napoleon.
We've had this conversation before. My parents and my mother's
parents were married in that church, as my great grandparents owned a
house near the intersection of Prytania and Valence. My son and his
wife lived on Perrier, between Dufossat and Valmont, a few blocks from
the old Prytania Theatre. Perrier is two blocks closer to the river
than Pitt, running between Prytania and Coliseum. That area is not in
the Garden District, it's Uptown.
R H Draney
>
>Yeah. I was thinking that the last symptom reported was probably a
>migraine or something. That list reports a lot of people dying from
>'teeth'.
Without specifying who or what actually bit 'em to death....r
--
We are the parents our people warned us about.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:12:53 UTC, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
> <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Any more detail as to where they lived? We used to be on Pitt Street,
>>just behind the St. George and the Dragon Church, at the edge of the
>>old Garden District, between Louisiana and Napoleon.
>
>
> We've had this conversation before. My parents and my mother's
> parents were married in that church, as my great grandparents owned a
> house near the intersection of Prytania and Valence.
That's 8 blocks upriver from where we lived.
> My son and his wife lived on Perrier, between Dufossat and Valmont,
13 blocks further upriver.
> a few blocks from the old Prytania Theatre. Perrier is two blocks
> closer to the river than Pitt, running between Prytania and Coliseum.
> That area is not in the Garden District, it's Uptown.
>
Yah. We needed to be 5 blocks further downtown to be in the Garden
District proper. But it had more class when we told people we were
"at the edge of the Garden District".
charles
chorl...@hotmail.com
My 2 cents worth on lactose intolerance:
the enzyme group which catalyzes the hydrolysis of lactose into the
monosaccharides galactose and glucose is at the very tip of the
brush-border villi in the small intestine. This means that any
intestinal disorder, viral and /or bacterial which can cause
inflammation at the tip of the brush border, will generate at least a
temporary lactose intolerance. If a child continues to receive lactose
during these episodes, the disaccharide remains undigested and is
metabolized by bacteria causing gas, pain and diarrhea.
lactose tolerance as a whole is largely the domain of Europeans
(Butter-stinkers as the Japanese occasionally refer to them) Some
cultures entirely prefer yogourt which is previously digested.
David
Sevo Stille
> lactose tolerance as a whole is largely the domain of Europeans
> (Butter-stinkers as the Japanese occasionally refer to them) Some
> cultures entirely prefer yogourt which is previously digested.
Maintaining lactose tolerance across the border of infanthood seems to
be more of a matter of training than of a real genetic predisposition -
cultures that drink milk seem to be sprinkled all across Europe, Asia
and Africa, and many are not genetically distant at all from their
lactose-intolerant neighbours.
Sevo