Re: Starving people refuse to eat food aid
Keith F. Lynch
> I'm wondering if it isn't that the really high end restaurants
> require a certain minimum status to get in to with "tourists"
> automatically getting a boost just for being tourists. That is,
> in your own country you just may not have the right connections
> to learn about the true top end places whereas tourists get told
> about them because as tourists they're "foreign and interesting".
Why would the restaurant care about anything but ability to pay?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> I'm wondering if it isn't that the really high end restaurants
>> require a certain minimum status to get in to with "tourists"
>> automatically getting a boost just for being tourists. That is,
>> in your own country you just may not have the right connections
>> to learn about the true top end places whereas tourists get told
>> about them because as tourists they're "foreign and interesting".
>
> Why would the restaurant care about anything but ability to pay?
Many restaurants cater to clientele which are at the high end, and they
care about atmosphere, visibility, style at least as much as the simple
"can you pay". There's lots of people who CAN pay -- but you may not
want all of them.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Quadibloc
> Why would the restaurant care about anything but ability to pay?
Perhaps because most of the potential customers of that restaurant,
who have the ability to pay, and the interest in doing so, want a
serene and quiet eating experience with others like themselves - not
vulgar members of the general public.
So if the restaurant lowered its standards, it might get one extra
customer once - but lose a lot of customers in the future.
John Savard
James
Tourists are stereotyped as someone on a budget (they are eating out
most of the trip and have to limit themselves), who will look to spend
as little as possible.
Regulars often indulge in more expensive meals, particularly the high
profit alcohol and deserts.
It is entirely possible that its more profitable to keep a regular
than to try and fill up the empty tables with tourists.
James
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>Tourists are stereotyped as someone on a budget (they are eating out
>most of the trip and have to limit themselves), who will look to spend
>as little as possible.
Well, that's a silly stereotype. Lots of tourists are on a
hang-the-expense once-in-a-lifetime spree and will go first-class all
the way. Certainly I'm more likely to indulge in a good wine or
exotic dish when I'm traveling than when I'm eating locally.
>Regulars often indulge in more expensive meals, particularly the high
>profit alcohol and desserts.
Again, not my experience; regulars tend to settle on something they
like and get the same things over and over, and usually NOT the fancy
stuff.
I mean, I've SEEN cases where someone's so much a regular that when he
walks in, the waitress immediately calls his order to the kitchen
without even bothering to ask, "The usual?"
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.watt-evans.com/realmsoflight0.html
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:37:31 -0800 (PST), James <jl...@idirect.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tourists are stereotyped as someone on a budget (they are eating out
>> most of the trip and have to limit themselves), who will look to spend
>> as little as possible.
>
> Well, that's a silly stereotype. Lots of tourists are on a
> hang-the-expense once-in-a-lifetime spree and will go first-class all
> the way. Certainly I'm more likely to indulge in a good wine or
> exotic dish when I'm traveling than when I'm eating locally.
>
>> Regulars often indulge in more expensive meals, particularly the high
>> profit alcohol and desserts.
>
> Again, not my experience; regulars tend to settle on something they
> like and get the same things over and over, and usually NOT the fancy
> stuff.
I'm with you. If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
be home, making myself a chicken.
Don Freeman
when I do I'm not going to short-change myself.
--
-Don
Bill Snyder
Wow. There must have been advances in DNA-tailoring of which I
was completely unaware.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Cheryl
Some tourists don't have enough left over after paying for the
transportation to eat without watching the cost. They can - if they've
planned properly, which of course is far more important when you have
relatively little money - eat well and pay for what they need, but they
can't and aren't going to suddenly start eating all the most expensive
dishes without considering the cost just because they're on vacation.
--
Cheryl
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Yeah, of course they exist, but are they enough of a majority to
justify a stereotype? I don't think so.
It may vary according to which tourist destination you're looking at.
I suspect that, say, your typical national park gets less profligate
tourists than Cancun or Rio.
James
I think the growing popularity of cruises and all included resorts is
the fact that the tourist doesn't have to worry about the food costs,
its all in.
I've seen quite a few restaurants in places like Niagara Falls, or
Times Square, NYC where they are targeting the budget minded tourist.
And my wife's recollection of tourists in Ottawa is that they were
more frugal than regulars, she was a waitress for years.
James
Dimensional Traveler
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:37:31 -0800 (PST), James <jl...@idirect.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tourists are stereotyped as someone on a budget (they are eating out
>> most of the trip and have to limit themselves), who will look to spend
>> as little as possible.
>
> Well, that's a silly stereotype. Lots of tourists are on a
> hang-the-expense once-in-a-lifetime spree and will go first-class all
> the way. Certainly I'm more likely to indulge in a good wine or
> exotic dish when I'm traveling than when I'm eating locally.
>
>> Regulars often indulge in more expensive meals, particularly the high
>> profit alcohol and desserts.
>
> Again, not my experience; regulars tend to settle on something they
> like and get the same things over and over, and usually NOT the fancy
> stuff.
>
> I mean, I've SEEN cases where someone's so much a regular that when he
> walks in, the waitress immediately calls his order to the kitchen
> without even bothering to ask, "The usual?"
>
call it in to the kitchen, the cook automatically starts making the
order just long enough before you get there that she can put it on the
table in front of you just as you sit down. :-D
--
"Dude. They've gone fractal."
Dimensional Traveler
Keith F. Lynch
Sea wasps do lay eggs, but I don't think they're chicken eggs.
erilar
<q478h515a685dloa3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:37:31 -0800 (PST), James <jl...@idirect.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Tourists are stereotyped as someone on a budget (they are eating out
> >most of the trip and have to limit themselves), who will look to spend
> >as little as possible.
I buy things when I'm on a trip that I never buy at home. . .
>
> Well, that's a silly stereotype. Lots of tourists are on a
> hang-the-expense once-in-a-lifetime spree and will go first-class all
> the way. Certainly I'm more likely to indulge in a good wine or
> exotic dish when I'm traveling than when I'm eating locally.
I remember having a cheap meal and an expensive wine a time or two
in the past in Germany 8-)
>
> >Regulars often indulge in more expensive meals, particularly the high
> >profit alcohol and desserts.
>
> Again, not my experience; regulars tend to settle on something they
> like and get the same things over and over, and usually NOT the fancy
> stuff.
Sometimes one, sometimes the other.
>
> I mean, I've SEEN cases where someone's so much a regular that when he
> walks in, the waitress immediately calls his order to the kitchen
> without even bothering to ask, "The usual?"
I've never reached that point 8-)
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
erilar
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
> be home, making myself a chicken.
Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany on a
not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: I bought my food
in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <hf1748$it4$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
>> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
>> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
>> be home, making myself a chicken.
>
> Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany on a
> not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
> bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: I bought my food
> in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
>
But that's not tourism, which was the question. "Student in another
country" may DO some sightseeing, but they're not a tourist by the
normal definition.
Mike Ash
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> erilar wrote:
> > In article <hf1748$it4$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
> >> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
> >> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
> >> be home, making myself a chicken.
> >
> > Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany on a
> > not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
> > bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: I bought my food
> > in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
> >
>
> But that's not tourism, which was the question. "Student in another
> country" may DO some sightseeing, but they're not a tourist by the
> normal definition.
He's talking about traveling and playing tourist while a student.
Students can be a tourist just as much as anyone else, by going
somewhere other than where they live.
I was a student in France for a year, and most of the time I wasn't a
tourist, but you can bet that I became one when I traveled to Rome,
Venice, and various other places. And you can bet that I ate cheaply.
(And travelled cheaply. Spending thousands of dollars on a trip was
completely out of the question.)
My fondest memory from my visit to London was buying bread, cheese, and
other simple food from a grocery store and going to a park to eat it.
(Second fondest was being the only person in the "Non-EU citizens" line
at the airport passport control, with 50+ people crowding the other one,
and thus getting the jump on all of them once they actually roused the
person who was supposed to be manning the desk on my side. Tremendously
amusing, and convenient.)
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <hf1748$it4$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
>> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
>> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
>> be home, making myself a chicken.
>
>Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany on a
>not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
>bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: I bought my food
>in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
Sure, I've gone that route -- it's not just cheaper, it's a lot of
fun.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
>(Second fondest was being the only person in the "Non-EU citizens" line
>at the airport passport control, with 50+ people crowding the other one,
>and thus getting the jump on all of them once they actually roused the
>person who was supposed to be manning the desk on my side. Tremendously
>amusing, and convenient.)
Ah, we had that experience in Barcelona! The guy who was supposed to
be manning our desk had walked off, in fact, so we just marched
through unhindered.
Dorothy J Heydt
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <hf1748$it4$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
>> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
>> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
>> be home, making myself a chicken.
>
>Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany on a
>not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
>bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: I bought my food
>in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
I did the same thing when I was in England in 1984. Marks and
Sparks was my friend.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
James
> In article <drache-9CC7E8.20321630112...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>
> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> >In article <hf1748$it...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
> >> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
> >> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
> >> be home, making myself a chicken.
>
> >Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany on a
> >not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
> >bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: I bought my food
> >in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
We did something similar about 20 years ago, when visiting ski
resorts.
The prices at the top of the mountain were outrageous and the food was
only marginally better than fast food. So we used our backpacks and
bought good bread, cheese and meat from a deli at the bottom of the
ski hill, and stole mustard from the restaurants at the top.
And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
James
Walter Bushell
<q478h515a685dloa3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:37:31 -0800 (PST), James <jl...@idirect.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Tourists are stereotyped as someone on a budget (they are eating out
> >most of the trip and have to limit themselves), who will look to spend
> >as little as possible.
>
> Well, that's a silly stereotype. Lots of tourists are on a
> hang-the-expense once-in-a-lifetime spree and will go first-class all
> the way. Certainly I'm more likely to indulge in a good wine or
> exotic dish when I'm traveling than when I'm eating locally.
>
> >Regulars often indulge in more expensive meals, particularly the high
> >profit alcohol and desserts.
>
> Again, not my experience; regulars tend to settle on something they
> like and get the same things over and over, and usually NOT the fancy
> stuff.
>
> I mean, I've SEEN cases where someone's so much a regular that when he
> walks in, the waitress immediately calls his order to the kitchen
> without even bothering to ask, "The usual?"
One can do things away from home that one would not do while in one's
stomping grounds. If you find an expensive dish that you like at away,
it's much less likely to establish a precedent. Trip over, revert to
reality.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
Walter Bushell
Bill Snyder <bsn...@airmail.net> wrote:
But if the experiment succeeds, just *think* of what he saves in food
cost.
Mike Ash
<3vb9h5pmlh6kpdve3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:36:39 -0500, Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
>
> >(Second fondest was being the only person in the "Non-EU citizens" line
> >at the airport passport control, with 50+ people crowding the other one,
> >and thus getting the jump on all of them once they actually roused the
> >person who was supposed to be manning the desk on my side. Tremendously
> >amusing, and convenient.)
>
> Ah, we had that experience in Barcelona! The guy who was supposed to
> be manning our desk had walked off, in fact, so we just marched
> through unhindered.
Walking through sounds kind of dangerous to me. Hopping lines and
bypassing desks at passport control is the sort of thing that could get
you tackled from behind by a couple of large unfriendly uniformed men.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
>In article
><3vb9h5pmlh6kpdve3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:36:39 -0500, Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
>>
>> >(Second fondest was being the only person in the "Non-EU citizens" line
>> >at the airport passport control, with 50+ people crowding the other one,
>> >and thus getting the jump on all of them once they actually roused the
>> >person who was supposed to be manning the desk on my side. Tremendously
>> >amusing, and convenient.)
>>
>> Ah, we had that experience in Barcelona! The guy who was supposed to
>> be manning our desk had walked off, in fact, so we just marched
>> through unhindered.
>
>Walking through sounds kind of dangerous to me. Hopping lines and
>bypassing desks at passport control is the sort of thing that could get
>you tackled from behind by a couple of large unfriendly uniformed men.
Naah. We were perfectly willing to stop, and had our passports out,
but there just wasn't anyone THERE on the non-EU side. We were coming
from Milan, in January, and apparently they just didn't think there
could possibly be any non-EU travelers on that route at that time.
Certainly, there weren't any but the two of us.
Bill Snyder
Well, yes, *obviously* his outlay would be mere chicken feed at
that point.
(Thank you, but I won't be here all week; in fact, I'm running for
the exit right now.)
erilar
<718aae88-636e-4c4d...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
erilar
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> erilar wrote:
> > In article <hf1748$it4$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
> >> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
> >> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
> >> be home, making myself a chicken.
> >
> > Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany on a
> > not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
> > bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: I bought my food
> > in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
> >
>
> But that's not tourism, which was the question. "Student in another
> country" may DO some sightseeing, but they're not a tourist by the
> normal definition.
Ah, but I still do that same thing at times when traveling alone.
There's not always a handy restaurant when you want one. It's also
useful when traveling long distances using a variety of trains, which I
have a tendency to do in Germany.
Default User
> I mean, I've SEEN cases where someone's so much a regular that when he
> walks in, the waitress immediately calls his order to the kitchen
> without even bothering to ask, "The usual?"
That's the case with My Friend The Vice-President[1] and me. We have a
regular Friday night pizza and beer meet-up, and the place (there've
been a few) soon knows what we want and they'll just ask if we want the
usual.
1. There are many VPs in the world.
Brian
--
Day 302 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Don Freeman
> In article
> <718aae88-636e-4c4d...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
>> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
>> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
>> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
>> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
>> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
>
> Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>
Surfing is pretty good there I hear.
--
-Don
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Ah. Everywhere I've gone on vacation, the problem was choosing from all
the restaurants, not trying to find one.
Dorothy J Heydt
Reminds me of the joke from the 1960s, in which someone claims to
have seen on a bulletin board (or a men's room wall, or whatever)
the following exchange:
"My mother made me a neurotic."
"If I buy her some yarn, will she make me one too?"
(Sometimes "homosexual" was substituted for "neurotic," but not
often.)
Dorothy J Heydt
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article
><718aae88-636e-4c4d...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
>> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
>> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
>> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
>> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
>> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
>
>Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme
about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
versa. They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
Mike Ash
<crgah55ectctufh04...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 11:02:45 -0500, Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><3vb9h5pmlh6kpdve3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:36:39 -0500, Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >(Second fondest was being the only person in the "Non-EU citizens" line
> >> >at the airport passport control, with 50+ people crowding the other one,
> >> >and thus getting the jump on all of them once they actually roused the
> >> >person who was supposed to be manning the desk on my side. Tremendously
> >> >amusing, and convenient.)
> >>
> >> Ah, we had that experience in Barcelona! The guy who was supposed to
> >> be manning our desk had walked off, in fact, so we just marched
> >> through unhindered.
> >
> >Walking through sounds kind of dangerous to me. Hopping lines and
> >bypassing desks at passport control is the sort of thing that could get
> >you tackled from behind by a couple of large unfriendly uniformed men.
>
> Naah. We were perfectly willing to stop, and had our passports out,
> but there just wasn't anyone THERE on the non-EU side. We were coming
> from Milan, in January, and apparently they just didn't think there
> could possibly be any non-EU travelers on that route at that time.
>
> Certainly, there weren't any but the two of us.
Yeah, but they still wanted you to go through passport control, even if
they didn't bother to have someone at the desk. Nobody there means you
have to wait, not that you get to go through. If security had seen you
it might have turned ugly, although I'd give very good odds that they'd
just pass it off as a misunderstanding.
Strobe
wrote:
>But you're not _really_ a regular until the waitress doesn't need to
>call it in to the kitchen, the cook automatically starts making the
>order just long enough before you get there that she can put it on the
>table in front of you just as you sit down. :-D
At your regular table...
Kurt Busiek
> Reminds me of the joke from the 1960s, in which someone claims to
> have seen on a bulletin board (or a men's room wall, or whatever)
> the following exchange:
>
> "My mother made me a neurotic."
>
> "If I buy her some yarn, will she make me one too?"
>
> (Sometimes "homosexual" was substituted for "neurotic," but not
> often.)
I saw it as "homosexual," in a book on graffiti.
My favorite graffitum was on the men's room wall at Hungry Charlie's in
Syracuse, New York. It read, simply, "Why is Stacy right?"
Therer was something so plaintive, so existential about asking that
question of strangers, completely out of context, that has made me
remember it with affection ever since. If I can someday figure out a
story that would hinge on that particular piece of graffiti, I'll write
it.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> In article
> <718aae88-636e-4c4d...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
>> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
>> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
>> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
>> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
>> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
>
> Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>
true that Vienna is in Austria, but AFU is an alternate universe, and
not everything is the same. TWIAVBP. YMMV. [These acronyms are valid
only in RASW; in AFU there is a BOA].
Charles
Lawrence Watt-Evans
There were no signs to that effect, and no one in sight anywhere.
When we emerged into the terminal no one paid any attention.
This was a few years ago -- 2004, maybe?
Dimensional Traveler
In your regular seat, which has acquired the perfect contours.
--
"Dude. They've gone fractal."
Moriarty
> In article <drache-64CEEE.10565801122...@nothing.attdns.com>,
>
> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> >In article
> > James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
> >> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
> >> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
> >> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
> >> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
> >> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
>
> >Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>
> Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme
> about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
> versa. They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
True story: a couple of years ago, here in Sydney (Austr(al)ia) we had
the dubious pleasure of hosting that years APEC meeting where lots of
world leaders flew in, dressed up in matching clothes, caused massive
disruptions, achieved nothing and flew out. One of the leaders was
your President Minibrain who fluffed one of his speeches, referring to
both "Austria" and "OPEC". The usual rent-a-crowd, anti-
globalisation, loony protesters were doing their thing, but some of
them replaced their usual chant with "OPEC out of Austria!"
Well, it was funny at the time.
-Moriarty
David DeLaney
>erilar wrote:
>> James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>>> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
>>> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
>>> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
>>> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
>>> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
>>
>> Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>
>Surfing is pretty good there I hear.
Their ley lines are superb as well, I'm told. Though they go the other way,
Austria being on the other side of the world.
Dave "soon we shall introduce the * <-- PERTH graphic to this thread" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:
>> Reminds me of the joke from the 1960s, in which someone claims to
>> have seen on a bulletin board (or a men's room wall, or whatever)
>> the following exchange:
>>
>> "My mother made me a neurotic."
>>
>> "If I buy her some yarn, will she make me one too?"
>>
>> (Sometimes "homosexual" was substituted for "neurotic," but not often.)
Whereas I don't think I ever saw it as 'neurotic' - might be a generational-
difference thing.
>I saw it as "homosexual," in a book on graffiti.
Hmmm. Would that have been the at-least-four-book series by Haan & Hammerstrom,
"Graffiti in the <group of colleges>"?
>My favorite graffitum was on the men's room wall at Hungry Charlie's in
>Syracuse, New York. It read, simply, "Why is Stacy right?"
>
>Therer was something so plaintive, so existential about asking that
>question of strangers, completely out of context, that has made me
>remember it with affection ever since. If I can someday figure out a
>story that would hinge on that particular piece of graffiti, I'll write it.
Dave
Mike Ash
<g93bh5tlm5a49cne7...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> >Yeah, but they still wanted you to go through passport control, even if
> >they didn't bother to have someone at the desk. Nobody there means you
> >have to wait, not that you get to go through. If security had seen you
> >it might have turned ugly, although I'd give very good odds that they'd
> >just pass it off as a misunderstanding.
>
> There were no signs to that effect, and no one in sight anywhere.
> When we emerged into the terminal no one paid any attention.
>
> This was a few years ago -- 2004, maybe?
I maintain that it was probably a bad move overall, but not too
surprising that you got away with it. You were traveling from one
Schengen country to another, after all, so border checks would have been
minimal in any case.
As for signs, I don't remember seeing any signs at US immigration
control saying, "If you try to cut through the passport booths without
being checked, a crowd of large angry men will spontaneously appear and
knock you to the ground," but I'm pretty sure that's how things are
there.
erilar
When I'm traveling alone with an itinerary I've planned myself, I tend
to use large places with many restaurants only as places to change
trains, ending up at small places at odd times 8-)
erilar
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <drache-64CEEE....@nothing.attdns.com>,
> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> >In article
> ><718aae88-636e-4c4d...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> > James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
> >
> >> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
> >> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
> >> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
> >> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
> >> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
> >
> >Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>
> Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme
> about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
> versa. They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
When I was in Austria, in the Wachau as I recall, I saw a postcard
pointing out that there are no kangaroos in the countryside there.
Cheryl
some hours because someone wanted to say goodbye one last time before
leaving on an internal flight.
Not leaving *immediately*, as it turned out.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/09/16/nl-airport-160909.html
She can't have gone through security on her return, because I've left
the secure area any number of times while travelling, and they've always
let me back in as long as I go through security again.
--
Cheryl
Kurt Busiek
> Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:
>>> Reminds me of the joke from the 1960s, in which someone claims to
>>> have seen on a bulletin board (or a men's room wall, or whatever)
>>> the following exchange:
>>>
>>> "My mother made me a neurotic."
>>>
>>> "If I buy her some yarn, will she make me one too?"
>>>
>>> (Sometimes "homosexual" was substituted for "neurotic," but not often.)
>
> Whereas I don't think I ever saw it as 'neurotic' - might be a generational-
> difference thing.
>
>> I saw it as "homosexual," in a book on graffiti.
>
> Hmmm. Would that have been the at-least-four-book series by Haan & Hammerstrom,
> "Graffiti in the <group of colleges>"?
No idea. It was in the left hand bookshelf in my father's study, third
shelf up, toward the right side. Next to a book about dirty limericks
that my brain wants to tell me was either written by or had an
introduction by Isaac Asimov. But I don't remember the title of the
book. PARODIES: FROM CHAUCER TO BEERBOHM AND AFTER and LAUGH WITH
LEACOCK were on the same shelf as well.
I would have read it in the 1970s, and it almost certainly had to date
back years prior to that to be on those shelves, if that means anything.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
We should never travel together. I don't like small places. They tend
not to have civilization in them.
Scott Lurndal
>erilar wrote:
>> In article <hf1748$it4$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
>>> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
>>> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
>>> be home, making myself a chicken.
>>
>> Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany on a
>> not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
>> bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: I bought my food
>> in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
>>
>
> But that's not tourism, which was the question. "Student in another
>country" may DO some sightseeing, but they're not a tourist by the
>normal definition.
>
As tourists in London, a couple of decades ago, we did the
same - to the extent we kept a liter of milk on the outside windowsill of the
hotel room (it was xmas time) in liu of an icebox.
scott
Dimensional Traveler
civilization.
Canth
wrote:
>In article <drache-64CEEE....@nothing.attdns.com>,
>erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>In article
>><718aae88-636e-4c4d...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>> James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
>>> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
>>> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
>>> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
>>> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
>>
>>Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>
>Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme
>about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
>versa. They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
Not all. Generally it is just the parochial yanks who think it is
cute to disparage other countries.
AS! ds++:+++ a++ c+++ p++ t+ f-- S+ p+ e++ h++ r++ n++ i+ P+ m++ M
Canth
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:37:31 -0800 (PST), James <jl...@idirect.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tourists are stereotyped as someone on a budget (they are eating out
>>> most of the trip and have to limit themselves), who will look to spend
>>> as little as possible.
>>
>> Well, that's a silly stereotype. Lots of tourists are on a
>> hang-the-expense once-in-a-lifetime spree and will go first-class all
>> the way. Certainly I'm more likely to indulge in a good wine or
>> exotic dish when I'm traveling than when I'm eating locally.
>>
>>> Regulars often indulge in more expensive meals, particularly the high
>>> profit alcohol and desserts.
>>
>> Again, not my experience; regulars tend to settle on something they
>> like and get the same things over and over, and usually NOT the fancy
>> stuff.
>>
>> I mean, I've SEEN cases where someone's so much a regular that when he
>> walks in, the waitress immediately calls his order to the kitchen
>> without even bothering to ask, "The usual?"
>>
>But you're not _really_ a regular until the waitress doesn't need to
>call it in to the kitchen, the cook automatically starts making the
>order just long enough before you get there that she can put it on the
>table in front of you just as you sit down. :-D
I think I almost achieved this. At a particular Chinese fast food
outlet, the staff would start dishing up my usual as I approached
through the crowd, even at the very busiest of times. By the time I
made it to the cash register, the meal was waiting on the counter
beside it.
Keith F. Lynch
Which country does such name swapping disparage? I thought the only
one who was disparaged was whoever first made that typo on this
newsgroup. Next you'll be suggesting that "cow orker" disparages
coworkers, or perhaps cows. Or that voracity/veracity disparages
honest people, or perhaps hungry people.
As for whether anyone but Americans ever disparaged another nation,
well, talk about parochial....
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Keith F. Lynch
> Don Freeman <free...@cosmoslair.com> wrote:
>> erilar wrote:
>>> Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no
>>> kangaroos.
>> Surfing is pretty good there I hear.
> Their ley lines are superb as well, I'm told. Though they go the
> other way, Austria being on the other side of the world.
Is it true that when you flush a toilet there, the water goes up
instead of down?
Don Freeman
> David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>> Don Freeman <free...@cosmoslair.com> wrote:
>>> erilar wrote:
>>>> Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no
>>>> kangaroos.
>
>>> Surfing is pretty good there I hear.
>
>> Their ley lines are superb as well, I'm told. Though they go the
>> other way, Austria being on the other side of the world.
>
> Is it true that when you flush a toilet there, the water goes up
> instead of down?
No, that's France.
--
-Don
Bill Snyder
You think that's weird, in Japan it goes sideways.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Keith F. Lynch
> My favorite graffitum was on the men's room wall at Hungry Charlie's
> in Syracuse, New York. It read, simply, "Why is Stacy right?"
> Therer was something so plaintive, so existential about asking that
> question of strangers, completely out of context, that has made me
> remember it with affection ever since. If I can someday figure out
> a story that would hinge on that particular piece of graffiti, I'll
> write it.
Then there's the mysterious, "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"
I once saw a memorable nonsense word carved on a tree. I later used
variants of it as computer passwords.
Walter Bushell
> On Dec 1, 12:58�am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> > In article <drache-9CC7E8.20321630112...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >
> > erilar �<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> > >In article <hf1748$it...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > > "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> If I'm going to spend literally thousands of dollars to
> > >> take a trip, I'm not watching the spending on the food. I'm here to
> > >> enjoy myself. If I can't afford the food, I shouldn't be here, I should
> > >> be home, making myself a chicken.
> >
> > >Well, there's another situation. �When I was studying in Germany on a
> > >not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed to do a good
> > >bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all: �I bought my food
> > >in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc., and "picnicked".
>
> We did something similar about 20 years ago, when visiting ski
> resorts.
>
> The prices at the top of the mountain were outrageous and the food was
> only marginally better than fast food. So we used our backpacks and
> bought good bread, cheese and meat from a deli at the bottom of the
> ski hill, and stole mustard from the restaurants at the top.
>
> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
>
> James
Vienna Australia? Exists and has at least one hotel.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
Walter Bushell
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
There is a Vienna in Australia.
Keith F. Lynch
>> instead of down?
> No, that's France.
Oh, I thought it was my apartment. Then the landlord once again sends
letters to all tenants -- in Spanish, of course -- saying that anyone
caught flushing trash down the toilet will be evicted. I wonder how
they're going to catch the culprit. Check the clog for fingerprints?
Keith F. Lynch
> Vienna Australia? Exists and has at least one hotel.
And I live in Vienna, Virginia. It has one motel.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Vienna Australia? Exists and has at least one hotel.
>
> And I live in Vienna, Virginia. It has one motel.
And a significant number of excellent ethnic restaurants.
And the largest parking lot on the Metro.
Keith F. Lynch
But no kangaroos or alps. And the Metro station and its parking lot
are not actually in the town.
Hatunen
wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:50:26 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <drache-64CEEE....@nothing.attdns.com>,
>>>Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>>
>>Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme
>>about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
>>versa. They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
>Not all. Generally it is just the parochial yanks who think it is
>cute to disparage other countries.
AFU was a pretty global community back then; it wasn't just the
yanks. But I'm not sure what country you feel was disparaged: was
it Austria or Australia?
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Keith F. Lynch
> Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> Ah, we had that experience in Barcelona! The guy who was supposed
>> to be manning our desk had walked off, in fact, so we just marched
>> through unhindered.
I had a similar experience in Glasgow. By the time my bike was
unloaded from the plane, and I finished unpacking and assembling
it, nobody was around, so I just rode it out of the airport. See
http://KeithLynch.net/bike.glasgow.html
Disclaimer: This was before 9/11.
> Walking through sounds kind of dangerous to me. Hopping lines and
> bypassing desks at passport control is the sort of thing that
> could get you tackled from behind by a couple of large unfriendly
> uniformed men.
I think they're more concerned with people skipping security when
approaching a plane then when leaving one.
Hatunen
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Vienna Australia? Exists and has at least one hotel.
>
>And I live in Vienna, Virginia. It has one motel.
The Youngstown Ohio airport is in Vienna, Ohio. Pronounced
Vye-enna.
Keith F. Lynch
> The prices at the top of the mountain were outrageous and the food
> was only marginally better than fast food.
They probably had to cook the food at the bottom of the mountain,
where water boils at a reasonable temperature, and then haul it up
to the top quickly, before the food gets cold.
Keith F. Lynch
> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>> Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany
>> on a not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed
>> to do a good bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all:
>> I bought my food in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc.,
>> and "picnicked".
> Sure, I've gone that route -- it's not just cheaper, it's a lot
> of fun.
I basically never eat in restaurants. Anyhow, why go somewhere just
to see what other tourists see? I want to see how the ordinary
people live.
I was once sent on a business trip to Roosevelt Roads, a military base
on Puerto Rico. I wasn't allowed to leave the base except in a car,
and I don't drive. I wasn't allowed to shop at the commissary, and
nowhere else on base except restaurants sold food. I was not happy.
Hatunen
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>> Well, there's another situation. When I was studying in Germany
>>> on a not-at-all-generous fellowship long and long ago, I managed
>>> to do a good bit of traveling by not eating in restaurants at all:
>>> I bought my food in grocery stores, bakeries, meat markets, etc.,
>>> and "picnicked".
>
>> Sure, I've gone that route -- it's not just cheaper, it's a lot
>> of fun.
>
>I basically never eat in restaurants. Anyhow, why go somewhere just
>to see what other tourists see? I want to see how the ordinary
>people live.
There are restaurants that aren't frequented by tourists, you
know. They can be a valuable part of seeing a country and seeing
the locals.
Mike Ash
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> > Walking through sounds kind of dangerous to me. Hopping lines and
> > bypassing desks at passport control is the sort of thing that
> > could get you tackled from behind by a couple of large unfriendly
> > uniformed men.
>
> I think they're more concerned with people skipping security when
> approaching a plane then when leaving one.
On domestic flights, yes. On international flights, the passport control
area is an international border, and most countries frown on people
trying to enter through a controlled international border without
actually going through the controls.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
You speak, but your words... they have no meaning.
David DeLaney
>> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> Vienna Australia? Exists and has at least one hotel.
>
>>> And I live in Vienna, Virginia. It has one motel.
>
>> And a significant number of excellent ethnic restaurants.
>> And the largest parking lot on the Metro.
>
>But no kangaroos or alps.
That you KNOW of.
Dave "ninja orogeny" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) said:
>>Hmmm. Would that have been the at-least-four-book series by Haan &
Hammerstrom,
>>"Graffiti in the <group of colleges>"?
>
>No idea. It was in the left hand bookshelf in my father's study, third
>shelf up, toward the right side.
Cover pictures visible at, let's see, ... okay, isn't that special: a quick
search in the usual places brings back NO images whatsoever of any of the
four covers. So never mind.
> Next to a book about dirty limericks
>that my brain wants to tell me was either written by or had an
>introduction by Isaac Asimov.
Could be any of Lecherous Limericks, More LL, Still More LL, or Limericks: Too
Gross. The man wrote entirely too profligately.
>I would have read it in the 1970s, and it almost certainly had to date
>back years prior to that to be on those shelves, if that means anything.
Looks like the ones I'm thinking about are from 1980-1982, so that can't be
them then. Oh well.
Dave
R H Draney
>
>Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>> My favorite graffitum was on the men's room wall at Hungry Charlie's
>> in Syracuse, New York. It read, simply, "Why is Stacy right?"
>
>> Therer was something so plaintive, so existential about asking that
>> question of strangers, completely out of context, that has made me
>> remember it with affection ever since. If I can someday figure out
>> a story that would hinge on that particular piece of graffiti, I'll
>> write it.
>
>Then there's the mysterious, "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"
>
>I once saw a memorable nonsense word carved on a tree. I later used
>variants of it as computer passwords.
CROATOAN?...r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
R H Draney
>
>Don Freeman <free...@cosmoslair.com> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>> Is it true that when you flush a toilet there, the water goes up
>>> instead of down?
>
>> No, that's France.
>
>Oh, I thought it was my apartment. Then the landlord once again sends
>letters to all tenants -- in Spanish, of course -- saying that anyone
>caught flushing trash down the toilet will be evicted. I wonder how
>they're going to catch the culprit. Check the clog for fingerprints?
This is where DNA testing really comes into its own....r
R H Draney
>
>On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:40:44 GMT, Canth <kwar...@bigpond.net.au>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:50:26 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <drache-64CEEE....@nothing.attdns.com>,
>
>>>>Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>>>
>>>Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme
>>>about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
>>>versa. They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
>
>>Not all. Generally it is just the parochial yanks who think it is
>>cute to disparage other countries.
>
>AFU was a pretty global community back then; it wasn't just the
>yanks. But I'm not sure what country you feel was disparaged: was
>it Austria or Australia?
It was Canada, actually, but as usual they were too polite to say anything about
it....r
R H Draney
>
>Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Vienna Australia? Exists and has at least one hotel.
>
>And I live in Vienna, Virginia. It has one motel.
Fun with geography:
46 49'12"N, 67 55'23"W
41 28'39"N, 105 38'12"W
What's the third place (Google Maps won't help)?...r
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> The prices at the top of the mountain were outrageous and the food
>> was only marginally better than fast food.
>
>They probably had to cook the food at the bottom of the mountain,
>where water boils at a reasonable temperature, and then haul it up
>to the top quickly, before the food gets cold.
Or they could've had pressure cookers ... but in any case they
had to haul everything up to the top ... perhaps by ski lift.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Canth
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Canth <kwar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>> Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme about
>>> always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice versa.
>>> They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
>
>> Not all. Generally it is just the parochial yanks who think it is
>> cute to disparage other countries.
>
>Which country does such name swapping disparage? I thought the only
>one who was disparaged was whoever first made that typo on this
>newsgroup. Next you'll be suggesting that "cow orker" disparages
>coworkers, or perhaps cows. Or that voracity/veracity disparages
>honest people, or perhaps hungry people.
>
Both countries as it belittles them by implying they do not matter
enough to be correctly distinguished. I do tend to still get puzzled
when I see statements which are blatantly wrong.
>As for whether anyone but Americans ever disparaged another nation,
>well, talk about parochial....
Personal experience: I have traveled a bit in Europe, Asia & Nth
America. Of those three regions, only people in the USA ever failed
to correctly identify the region where Australia is. What's more,
sufficient USA people failed that it is one of the enduring memories
of my two months there, patiently explaining that Australia is the big
country in the Southern Hemisphere, not the little one somewhere in
Europe. From the puzzled looks on some faces, I sometimes wondered if
they even believed there is a Southern Hemisphere, or that people
could live there.
AS! ds++:+++ a++ c+++ p++ t+ f-- S+ p+ e++ h++ r++ n++ i+ P+ m++ M
cryptoguy
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:02:16 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
>
>
>
>
>
> <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >> djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> >>> Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme about
> >>> always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice versa.
> >>> They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
>
> >> Not all. Generally it is just the parochial yanks who think it is
> >> cute to disparage other countries.
>
> >Which country does such name swapping disparage? I thought the only
> >one who was disparaged was whoever first made that typo on this
> >newsgroup. Next you'll be suggesting that "cow orker" disparages
> >coworkers, or perhaps cows. Or that voracity/veracity disparages
> >honest people, or perhaps hungry people.
>
> Both countries as it belittles them by implying they do not matter
> enough to be correctly distinguished. I do tend to still get puzzled
> when I see statements which are blatantly wrong.
This is correct. That Keith doesn't realize this speaks volumes...
> >As for whether anyone but Americans ever disparaged another nation,
> >well, talk about parochial....
>
> Personal experience: I have traveled a bit in Europe, Asia & Nth
> America. Of those three regions, only people in the USA ever failed
> to correctly identify the region where Australia is. What's more,
> sufficient USA people failed that it is one of the enduring memories
> of my two months there, patiently explaining that Australia is the big
> country in the Southern Hemisphere, not the little one somewhere in
> Europe. From the puzzled looks on some faces, I sometimes wondered if
> they even believed there is a Southern Hemisphere, or that people
> could live there.
You think that's bad? The American state of 'New Mexico' is frequently
confused with the country of Mexico.
By Americans.
pt
Ralph Jones
<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <KtzIw...@kithrup.com>,
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> In article <drache-64CEEE....@nothing.attdns.com>,
>> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>> >In article
>> ><718aae88-636e-4c4d...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>> > James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> And I did it recently in Australia. We had some grand nights out with
>> >> preset prepaid meals, but many times for lunch we were on our own, so
>> >> we visited delis and supermarkets. That left more more money for
>> >> beer. :) Its hard to walk down any street in Vienna without finding
>> >> good places to buy reasonable lunch supplies.
>> >
>> >Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>>
>> Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme
>> about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
>> versa. They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
>
>When I was in Austria, in the Wachau as I recall, I saw a postcard
>pointing out that there are no kangaroos in the countryside there.
I bought a T-shirt in Salzburg on the same theme. It showed cows
dancing on their hind legs in an Alpine meadow, using their forelegs
to hold their udders vaguely like a kangaroo's pouch. Caption, "No
Kangaroos in Austria".
Sadly, the Austrians have mastered the art of peddling cheap crap to
tourists, and it lasted through about three washings.
rj
Dorothy J Heydt
It is, among other things, because the US is large. People live
their whole lives, and travel many hundreds of miles, and move
house from state to state, without ever leaving the US. They
develop, as it were, a feeling of "what difference do those other
countries make? I'm never going to go there." It was worse
before the various wars of the 20th century, when American men
went hither and thither to fight and (some of them) returned to
tell the tale, even if their families didn't quite get what they
were talking about. There was a song after WWI: "How're you
gonna keep them down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?"
Ralph Jones
<treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
>You think that's bad? The American state of 'New Mexico' is frequently
>confused with the country of Mexico.
>
Well...
I'll agree that New Mexicans _perceive_ that to be the case, having
enshrined it in their license-plate motto. And their state-published
tourist magazine has a monthly feature titled "One Of Our Fifty Is
Missing", which lists a page of reader-contributed anecdotes on the
theme every month. It's very amusing, if a bit tiring after a while.
Before the Atlanta Olympics, a couple of New Mexico stories involving
unnamed ticket agents made it into the national news media. Well,
OK...and during the Vietnam War the story of the ethnic laborer's
misadventure with rope, pulley and bucket of tiles appeared there too,
with a Vietnamese laborer in that case. Plenty of populations have
their "stupid outlander" tales, and media eat them up. I suspect that
the state/country confusion is simply New Mexico's version of same.
I'm 68 years old and I have never, ever met a person who was confused
on that point.
rj
David J. Martin
> On Dec 2, 8:33 am, Canth <kwar6...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:02:16 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> Canth <kwar6...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>> djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>>> Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme about
>>>>> always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice versa.
>>>>> They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
>>>> Not all. Generally it is just the parochial yanks who think it is
>>>> cute to disparage other countries.
>>> Which country does such name swapping disparage? I thought the only
>>> one who was disparaged was whoever first made that typo on this
>>> newsgroup. Next you'll be suggesting that "cow orker" disparages
>>> coworkers, or perhaps cows. Or that voracity/veracity disparages
>>> honest people, or perhaps hungry people.
>> Both countries as it belittles them by implying they do not matter
>> enough to be correctly distinguished. I do tend to still get puzzled
>> when I see statements which are blatantly wrong.
>
> This is correct. That Keith doesn't realize this speaks volumes...
I always thought that it belittled the people who can't tell the
difference between the two countries. That and it was a bit of a
shibboleth, of which AFU had (has? hard to say these days) many. Keith
mentions a couple others.
David 'internyms were also a mark of distinction' Martin
"Michal Dwuznik (Michał Dwużnik)"
>>> Sure, I've gone that route -- it's not just cheaper, it's a lot
>>> of fun.
>> I basically never eat in restaurants. Anyhow, why go somewhere just
>> to see what other tourists see? I want to see how the ordinary
>> people live.
>
> There are restaurants that aren't frequented by tourists, you
> know. They can be a valuable part of seeing a country and seeing
> the locals.
>
strange looking guy when going to buy $FAVFRUIT $FAVBREAD and others,
but not eating "touristified" food is worth playing "the odd guy" part.
Michal
"Michal Dwuznik (Michał Dwużnik)"
> Don Freeman <free...@cosmoslair.com> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>> Is it true that when you flush a toilet there, the water goes up
>>> instead of down?
>
>> No, that's France.
>
> Oh, I thought it was my apartment. Then the landlord once again sends
> letters to all tenants -- in Spanish, of course -- saying that anyone
> caught flushing trash down the toilet will be evicted. I wonder how
> they're going to catch the culprit. Check the clog for fingerprints?
the dorm. Their faces when the plumber unclogged the toilet, and emerged
with a hard proof that the person flushing the root cause of the clog
was female of certain age range in his hand (glove, actually) made my day.
Michal
cryptoguy
It's belittling in my book. The message it sends is 'Austria and
Australia are both so insignificant in the larger scheme of things
that not real harm can be done by reversing them in afu postings'.
Similarly it's belittling to say 'Your name can't be displayed
correctly on some news readers? Big deal; use US-ASCII or don't use
usenet."
People (and countries) are belittled when others treat their name as a
source of 'innocent merriment'.
pt
Dorothy J Heydt
Hatunen
wrote:
Maybe you were being Margaret Meaded.
Hatunen
<treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
I daresay if they had to use the name of New Mexico non-Americans
would be just as confused. but I suspect it just doesn't come up
that often for them.
Anyway, New Mexico license plates do say "New Mexico USA" on
them. I think it's the only state that has "USA" on its license
plates.
James
> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:40:44 GMT, Canth <kwar6...@bigpond.net.au>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:50:26 GMT, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >wrote:
>
> >>In article <drache-64CEEE.10565801122...@nothing.attdns.com>,
> >>>Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>
> >>about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
> >>versa. They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
> >Not all. Generally it is just the parochial yanks who think it is
> >cute to disparage other countries.
>
> yanks. But I'm not sure what country you feel was disparaged: was
> it Austria or Australia?
My intent was never to disparage either country, I loved my trip to
the Alpen country and have some memories to savour for the rest of my
life; singing in a thousand year old church, cruising the Danube and
seeing the castle where Richard the Lionheart was held, touring
Mozart's birthplace etc. And I posted on AFU regarding the Tshirts I
saw stating "There are no Kangaroos in Austria" so I'm fairly certain
the inhabitants have a sense of humour.
And for the record of the previous poster, I'm not a yank, nor
parochial. Nor cute, come to think of it, though my wife may disagree.
The usage is a shibboleth, meant for those users of the AFU group, not
the wide world or the population of either Austria or Australia.
James
Ralph Jones
wrote:
Don't think so, but it's gone now.
rj
Don Freeman
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:02:16 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
> <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> Which country does such name swapping disparage? I thought the only
>> one who was disparaged was whoever first made that typo on this
>> newsgroup. Next you'll be suggesting that "cow orker" disparages
>> coworkers, or perhaps cows. Or that voracity/veracity disparages
>> honest people, or perhaps hungry people.
>>
> From the puzzled looks on some faces, I sometimes wondered if
> they even believed there is a Southern Hemisphere, or that people
> could live there.
Or the puzzled looks could be from their bewilderment as to how you
could have missed such an obvious joke.
--
-Don
netcat
says...
Just like we keep confusing New York, all the time?
rgds,
netcat
James
> In article <hf4nda$pp...@reader1.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
> >James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
> >> The prices at the top of the mountain were outrageous and the food
> >> was only marginally better than fast food.
>
> >They probably had to cook the food at the bottom of the mountain,
> >where water boils at a reasonable temperature, and then haul it up
> >to the top quickly, before the food gets cold.
>
> Or they could've had pressure cookers ... but in any case they
> had to haul everything up to the top ... perhaps by ski lift.
That would explain some of the menu choices.
There was lots of sushi, broiled salmon, broiled burgers, things they
could cook quickly and easily up top to reduce what they have to ship
up. Don't recall all the sides.
I've also eaten at the restaurant near the top of the CN Tower. Its at
1150 feet, not as high obviously as Whistler/Blackcomb. But the space
issues force them to have a small prep kitchen up top, and a larger
kitchen at the base of the tower. It seems to work though. The food is
good, the view can be spectacular.
James
Don Freeman
> In article <9fqch5pig2ifua6an...@4ax.com>,
> Canth <kwar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> Personal experience: I have traveled a bit in Europe, Asia & Nth
>> America. Of those three regions, only people in the USA ever failed
>> to correctly identify the region where Australia is.
>
> It is, among other things, because the US is large. People live
> their whole lives, and travel many hundreds of miles, and move
> house from state to state, without ever leaving the US. They
> develop, as it were, a feeling of "what difference do those other
> countries make? I'm never going to go there."
The only time I've come across the Australia/Austria confusion on USENET
has been a deliberate usage meant to belittle those that might actually
confuse the two. It's such an obvious troll that it is really hard to
read this conversation without shaking my head. Proof positive that not
only is the Whoosh Bird NOT extinct its population is quite healthy in
these parts.
--
-Don
Hatunen
<jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>On Dec 1, 10:17�pm, Hatunen <hatu...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:40:44 GMT, Canth <kwar6...@bigpond.net.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:50:26 GMT, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >>In article <drache-64CEEE.10565801122...@nothing.attdns.com>,
>> >>>Vienna is in Austria, where they have great mountains, but no kangaroos.
>>
>> >>Yes, but (clearly) James is on afu, where they have this meme
>> >>about always saying "Australia" when they mean "Austria" and vice
>> >>versa. �They did warn us about this, way way upthread.
>> >Not all. �Generally it is just the parochial yanks who think it is
>> >cute to disparage other countries.
>>
>> AFU was a pretty global community back then; it wasn't just the
>> yanks. But I'm not sure what country you feel was disparaged: was
>> it Austria or Australia?
>
>And for the record of the previous poster, I'm not a yank, nor
>parochial. Nor cute, come to think of it, though my wife may disagree.
>
>The usage is a shibboleth, meant for those users of the AFU group, not
>the wide world or the population of either Austria or Australia.
Back in those days AFU regulars included some Aussies but no
Austrians. The Aussies never objected.
Dorothy J Heydt
Hm. But in that case, I suppose, the food can be brought up
quickly via freight elevator, not slowly by ski lift.
Kurt Busiek
I live near the city of Vancouver, WA. Not a state, but the "Vancouver
WA USA" construction is common enough that I see it regularly.
When we drove out here from the East Coast, we got a AAA Triptik map.
We went in, traced out our route with the AAA people, and came back in
a few days to get the Triptik, only to find that someone had helpfully
corrected our destination from Vancouver WA to Vancouver BC.
Luckily, most of the new route was exactly the same, and we could
correct for the last bit without difficulty.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!