Do CD-ROMs or LPs (remember them?) flow? (really)
AF
I'm looking at one right now. It isn't spherical so it must have flowed!
Drew Lawson
In article <5kb6kh$o...@fountain.mindlink.net>, somebody
<no.e...@for.me.please> wrote:
> Anyhow....I've been told that information stored on CD-ROMs will
> not be readable in fifty years because the pits that actually
> store the data will flow and disappear over time.
Whether the data will be available, I cannot say. But the pits are
in *metal* (usually alumin[i]um, I believe). So, unless the metal
flows that quickly, the pits won't flow.
> Same thing about LP records...although I still have some 78 RPM
> ones from the early parts of this century which are still quite
> good.
The main concern I recall about vinyl recordings is warping, not
"flowing."
Drew "hey! My CD has pits on it!" Lawson
--
Drew Lawson | If you're not part of the solution,
dla...@aimnet.com | you're part of the precipitate
www.aimnet.com/~dlawson |
M. Mudgett
Rush Strong wrote:
>
> In article <01bc56fc$6686f840$e98d...@JamesLinn.bnr.ca>, "James Linn" <james...@nortel.com> wrote:
> >Bob Church <chu...@art.ohiou.edu> wrote in article
> ><AF8EDC8C...@church.art.ohiou.edu>...
> >> In article <5kb6kh$o...@fountain.mindlink.net>,
> >> somebody <no.e...@for.me.please> wrote:
> >> >Anyhow....I've been told that information stored on CD-ROMs will
> >> >not be readable in fifty years because the pits that actually
> >> >store the data will flow and disappear over time.
> Jump on me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that pre-recorded CD's are cut by
> a laser, no more than lp's are reproduced by a cutting lathe. Isn't some sort
> of photo-chemical technique used? Anyone?
>
> - Rush, who still has 1000's of lp's
I'm pretty particular about who I jump on, but vinyl LP
phongraph records and compact discs are both mass-produced
mechanically, by a process known as "pressing". The
original LP master is cut on a lathe, (a Neumann, for
instance) and CD masters are made with a laser on a CD
recorder (an ODC, for instance), using a photo-chemical
technique. But the mass-produced records are "pressed"
in both cases.
--
===========================================================
Mark Mudgett mudgett.at.s...@spamkiller.org
===========================================================
Bob Church
In article <5kb6kh$o...@fountain.mindlink.net>,
somebody <no.e...@for.me.please> wrote:
>Anyhow....I've been told that information stored on CD-ROMs will
>not be readable in fifty years because the pits that actually
>store the data will flow and disappear over time.
>I realize that it's more likely that CD-ROM readers will no longer
>exist and DVD players will be considered antiques...
I'm not sure if this applies or not, but my Magneto Optical disks are rated
for a shelf life of 30 years.
Bob Church
Rush Strong
In article <01bc56fc$6686f840$e98d...@JamesLinn.bnr.ca>, "James Linn" <james...@nortel.com> wrote:
>Bob Church <chu...@art.ohiou.edu> wrote in article
><AF8EDC8C...@church.art.ohiou.edu>...
>But of course they have been around for only ten....
>
>I used to sell them when they were new, as well as WORM (Write Once Read
>Many) Optical drives which use similar technology to CDs.
>
>The answer is that although there has been extensive testing to demonstrate
>longevity, by trying to simulate aging, no one knows for sure how good the
>simulations were, until they have historical data to work with.
>
>I don't know of any mechanism of wear or decay on non-magnetic media.
>Perhaps if you played a cd continously for may years, the laser itself
>would have some effect, as lasers are used to cut CDs in the first place.
James Linn
Bob Church <chu...@art.ohiou.edu> wrote in article
<AF8EDC8C...@church.art.ohiou.edu>...
> In article <5kb6kh$o...@fountain.mindlink.net>,
> somebody <no.e...@for.me.please> wrote:
>
>
> >Anyhow....I've been told that information stored on CD-ROMs will
> >not be readable in fifty years because the pits that actually
> >store the data will flow and disappear over time.
> >I realize that it's more likely that CD-ROM readers will no longer
> >exist and DVD players will be considered antiques...
>
> I'm not sure if this applies or not, but my Magneto Optical disks are
rated
> for a shelf life of 30 years.
But of course they have been around for only ten....
I used to sell them when they were new, as well as WORM (Write Once Read
Many) Optical drives which use similar technology to CDs.
The answer is that although there has been extensive testing to demonstrate
longevity, by trying to simulate aging, no one knows for sure how good the
simulations were, until they have historical data to work with.
I don't know of any mechanism of wear or decay on non-magnetic media.
Perhaps if you played a cd continously for may years, the laser itself
would have some effect, as lasers are used to cut CDs in the first place.
I don't think its worth getting overwrought about it though.
James Linn
My opinions are MINE,MINE,MINE!!!
Leo G. Simonetta
Hank wrote:
>
> First, what I understand is that the metal(mylar?) coating on the inside
> of a normal CD will oxidize in some number of years. When I first
> got my CD player in 1985 (still working!), an engineer friend
> said that the number was 10 years. I still have CDs from 1985 that
> play, but I don't have any information on "error correction" during play.
> This is why they try to sell the 24K gold CDs - they don't oxidize,
> and I beleive that they have a finer atom density than the aluminum
> coating on ordinary CDs. Beats me if they sound any better.
According to the Kodak website that talks about the lifespan of CDs,
given reasonable care (keeping out of heat and light) the expect
lifespan of CDs is a minimum of 50 years. It does not go into any
detail about what degrades overtime - I thought it was delamination
but there was no mention of it at this website of any of the other
two websites I found using WebCrawler.
--
Leo G. Simonetta
ARC...@LANGATE.GSU.EDU My opinions. Mine! All mine!
Hank
First, what I understand is that the metal(mylar?) coating on the inside
of a normal CD will oxidize in some number of years. When I first
got my CD player in 1985 (still working!), an engineer friend
said that the number was 10 years. I still have CDs from 1985 that
play, but I don't have any information on "error correction" during play.
This is why they try to sell the 24K gold CDs - they don't oxidize,
and I beleive that they have a finer atom density than the aluminum
coating on ordinary CDs. Beats me if they sound any better.
Second, CDs are pressed just like records. In both cases, many "Mother"
CDs are produced (opposite image from the master) that are then used to press the
millions of CDs we buy. I think there is one more step in the middle somewhere.
Hank "now if I could only find my green marker" Eskin
In article <336A78...@spamkiller.org>, mudgett.at.s...@spamkiller.org says...
>
>Rush Strong wrote:
>>
>> In article <01bc56fc$6686f840$e98d...@JamesLinn.bnr.ca>, "James Linn" <james...@nortel.com>
wrote:
>> >Bob Church <chu...@art.ohiou.edu> wrote in article
>> ><AF8EDC8C...@church.art.ohiou.edu>...
>> >> In article <5kb6kh$o...@fountain.mindlink.net>,
>> >> somebody <no.e...@for.me.please> wrote:
>> >> >Anyhow....I've been told that information stored on CD-ROMs will
>> >> >not be readable in fifty years because the pits that actually
>> >> >store the data will flow and disappear over time.
>> Jump on me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that pre-recorded CD's are cut by
>> a laser, no more than lp's are reproduced by a cutting lathe. Isn't some sort
>> of photo-chemical technique used? Anyone?
>>
>> - Rush, who still has 1000's of lp's
>
>I'm pretty particular about who I jump on, but vinyl LP
>phongraph records and compact discs are both mass-produced
>mechanically, by a process known as "pressing". The
>original LP master is cut on a lathe, (a Neumann, for
>instance) and CD masters are made with a laser on a CD
>recorder (an ODC, for instance), using a photo-chemical
>technique. But the mass-produced records are "pressed"
>in both cases.
>
>--
>===========================================================
>Mark Mudgett mudgett.at.s...@spamkiller.org
>===========================================================
--
netcom: he...@ix.netcom.com
Wolfgang Schwanke
he...@ix.netcom.com (Hank) writes:
>First, what I understand is that the metal(mylar?)
aluminium
>coating on the inside
>of a normal CD will oxidize in some number of years.
It's completely coated in plastic to prevent air contact,
thus preventing oxidising.
>When I first
>got my CD player in 1985 (still working!), an engineer friend
>said that the number was 10 years.
Don't believe him. The only bit of truth in that is that there was
a stock of defective CDs made a couple of years ago, which did decay
with time. That incident was reported about in the press, and started
to spark misunderstandings and rumours about general longevity of CDs,
most of which were completely wrong.
Judging from the way CDs are constructed, they can be expected to last
extremely long without degradation, certainly many decades.
The metal layer carrying the information is completely protected from
potential damages and wear, and the coating is robust and tight.
The main problem with CDs are scratches and other damages on the coating
from handling. But if they just sit in their shell without ever being
touched, there's no way to tell how long they may last.
[...]
>This is why they try to sell the 24K gold CDs - they don't oxidize,
Neither do ordinary ones, thanks to the air tight coating.
[...]
>Beats me if they sound any better.
Gold CDs are mostly issued by certain audiophile record labels who
put extreme care in mixing and mastering, and thus they're (hopefully)
bound to sound good. But that has nothing at all to do with the fact
that they're made of gold. The same tape pressed on aluminium CDs would
sound exactly the same.
In brief: Since aluminium has no inherent defects either in longevity
or readout quality, there's no need to correct them by using a different
material.
Those audiophile record labels use the gold as a "quality marker"
and marketing gimmick. If anyone claims there are technical benefits,
they're wrong.
Greetings
wolfgang
--
Elektropost: wo...@cs.tu-berlin.de | wo...@berlin.snafu.de | wo...@techno.de
WeltweitesSpinnweb: http://www.snafu.de/~wolfi/
IRC: wolfi | htrae no ecalp a nevaeh ekam ll'eW
RealLife: Wolfgang Schwanke | tsrif semoc evol nevaeh ni yas yehT
John Fix
.
>In article <5kb6kh$o...@fountain.mindlink.net>, somebody
><no.e...@for.me.please> wrote:
>
>> Anyhow....I've been told that information stored on CD-ROMs will
>> not be readable in fifty years because the pits that actually
>> store the data will flow and disappear over time.
>
The bigger question is will you still own a device that can play the
CD-ROM's? Manufacturers try and maintain backward compatability where
possible (i.e. DVD players will play CD's), but will CD-ROM drives
eventually go the way of 5-1/4" floppy drives? You can keep a CD-ROM
player installed, but I'd bet the player would die within ten years, let
alone fifty. I've got a collection of 8-track tapes, but the player
finally died (the drive belt broke). The tapes are fine, so the media is
intact, but the mechanism for retrieving the data is dead.
This topic was covered quite well in "Silicon Snake Oil" by Clifford
Stoll... he devoted a long discussion to the stacks of data he had backed
up over the years on to data tapes, disks, punch cards (ack!), and other
storage media. Although the media was intact, it was essentially
inaccessible, except at great cost through specialty service bureaus that
recover data on outdated media.
A long answer, but perhaps food for thought when considering how long a
media will hold data.
John
Alan Bostick
In article <5ke37k$2...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
he...@ix.netcom.com (Hank) wrote:
>
>
> First, what I understand is that the metal(mylar?) coating on the inside
> of a normal CD will oxidize in some number of years. When I first
> got my CD player in 1985 (still working!), an engineer friend
> play, but I don't have any information on "error correction" during play.
Umm. The mylar film is *sealed* inside the CD. It isn't exposed to
the atmosphere, and thus can't oxidize.
Let's suppose for a moment, though, that it could. Mylar is a film of
aluminum on plastic. It actually oxidizes in air quite quickly, in
seconds or less. Aluminum oxide is transparent and tough, forming a
layer that seals in the unexposed metal and protects it from corrosion.
Aluminum oxide is also known, by the way, as sapphire.
Alan "Alley alley oxide free!" Bostick
--
Alan Bostick | The theatre isn't about truth and authenticity.
mailto:abos...@netcom.com | It's about pretending. For truth and authenticity
news:alt.grelb | we have the subway. -- Louis Menand
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick
Leo G. Simonetta
Dr. Peter Kittel wrote:
>
> In article <5kb6kh$o...@fountain.mindlink.net> somebody <no.e...@for.me.please> writes:
> >
> >Anyhow....I've been told that information stored on CD-ROMs will
> >not be readable in fifty years because the pits that actually
> >store the data will flow and disappear over time.
> >
> >Same thing about LP records...although I still have some 78 RPM
> >ones from the early parts of this century which are still quite
> >good.
>
> imagine that we then just take a video image of the old record
> (vinyl or CD) and have some software evaluating the image and
> play back the sound. If we can't scan the whole disk in one image,
> we still let it rotate under a camera whose image will be processed
> in realtime to extract the sound data.
According to the Kodak web page about the lifespan on CDs
under relatively normal conditions a CD should last a minumum
of 50 years. To make you CDs last you should avoid high temps
and bright lights. I was under the impression that the degradation
of CDs was due to delamination between the mylar and the plastic
covering but none of the three sites I found on the lifespan of
CDs mentioned this.
(I tried posting this yesterday but it appears not to have
made it to the outside world. If it did I humbly apologize.)
Mathew Hendry
In alt.folklore.science Pete Fraser <pfr...@dnai.com> wrote:
: I don't know what the mechanism is, but several of my CDs have
: developed holes in the Alumin(i)um. Typically these are circular and
: about 2 mm diameter.
This is what can happen if you leave a CD player paused for too long. After a
while, the laser can evaporate a patch of the aluminium, producing holes as
you describe. Typically the holes are elliptical rather than circular, because
of the oblique angle at which the laser strikes the disc.
-- Mat.
Andrew M. Duncan
M. Mudgett wrote:
>
> Rush Strong wrote:
> >
> > In article <01bc56fc$6686f840$e98d...@JamesLinn.bnr.ca>, "James Linn" <james...@nortel.com> wrote:
> > >Bob Church <chu...@art.ohiou.edu> wrote in article
> > ><AF8EDC8C...@church.art.ohiou.edu>...
> > >> somebody <no.e...@for.me.please> wrote:
> > >> >not be readable in fifty years because the pits that actually
> > >> >store the data will flow and disappear over time.
> > a laser, no more than lp's are reproduced by a cutting lathe. Isn't some sort
> > of photo-chemical technique used? Anyone?
> >
> > - Rush, who still has 1000's of lp's
See back-issues of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society. It's
nonsense to imagine that the pits will "flow", but then audio is prey to
even more than its share of ULs. Rather, the transparency of the plastic
will slowly degrade. How long this will actually take is not certain,
because the only way to really measure it is to wait and see.
Andrew Duncan
adu...@cs.ucsb.edu
Hank
In article <19970504.4...@ak166.du.pipex.com>, ma...@utbe.com says...
This doesn't make sense to me... The disk is spinning the
entire time on pause - wouldn't this cause a "ring" of
evaporated aluminum? (I don't actually believe this
would happen either).
I once (by accident) lefy a CD on pause for about two days
without any noticible "holes".
- Hank
--
netcom: he...@ix.netcom.com
Wolfgang Schwanke
ma...@utbe.com (Mathew Hendry) writes:
>In alt.folklore.science Pete Fraser <pfr...@dnai.com> wrote:
>: I don't know what the mechanism is, but several of my CDs have
>: developed holes in the Alumin(i)um. Typically these are circular and
>: about 2 mm diameter.
>This is what can happen if you leave a CD player paused for too long. After a
>while, the laser can evaporate a patch of the aluminium, producing holes as
>you describe.
Excuse me, but that's complete nonsense. The laser in CD players
is much too weak to produce any damage.
Greetings
wolfgang
--
Elektropost: wo...@cs.tu-berlin.de | wo...@berlin.snafu.de
WeltweitesSpinnweb: | http://www.snafu.de/~wolfi/
IRC: wolfi | RealLife: Wolfgang Schwanke
ROYAUME UNI DOUZE POINTS
AF
>In article <19970504.4...@ak166.du.pipex.com>, ma...@utbe.com
>(Mathew Hendry) wrote:
>
>>In alt.folklore.science Pete Fraser <pfr...@dnai.com> wrote:
>>: I don't know what the mechanism is, but several of my CDs have
>>: developed holes in the Alumin(i)um. Typically these are circular and
>>: about 2 mm diameter.
>>
>>This is what can happen if you leave a CD player paused for too long. After a
>>while, the laser can evaporate a patch of the aluminium, producing holes as
>>you describe. Typically the holes are elliptical rather than circular, because
>>of the oblique angle at which the laser strikes the disc.
>>
BZZT! Wrong, but thanks for playing.
CD's don't stop spinning when the player is paused.
Andrew C Taubman
> >
> > This is what can happen if you leave a CD player paused for too long.
> > After a
> > while, the laser can evaporate a patch of the aluminium, producing holes as
> > you describe. Typically the holes are elliptical rather than circular,
> > because
> > of the oblique angle at which the laser strikes the disc.
>
evaporate?
Lon Stowell
In article <336AC7...@gsu.edu>,
Leo G. Simonetta <lsimo...@gsu.edu> wrote:
>According to the Kodak website that talks about the lifespan of CDs,
>given reasonable care (keeping out of heat and light) the expect
>lifespan of CDs is a minimum of 50 years. It does not go into any
>detail about what degrades overtime - I thought it was delamination
>but there was no mention of it at this website of any of the other
>two websites I found using WebCrawler.
Can't think of anything that would be susceptible to delamination.
Ordinary CD's are stamped from a master, then the reflective layer
is applied, then they are usually just lacquered, with the label
being printed over that lacquer. The reflective layer is extremely
thin, usually a deposited layer.
J Russell Jones
Leo G. Simonetta wrote:
> According to the Kodak web page about the lifespan on CDs
> under relatively normal conditions a CD should last a minumum
> of 50 years. To make you CDs last you should avoid high temps
> and bright lights. I was under the impression that the degradation
> of CDs was due to delamination between the mylar and the plastic
> covering but none of the three sites I found on the lifespan of
> CDs mentioned this.
To really shorten the life of a CD, put one in the microwave and nuke
it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
--
---
Russ Jones - Boeing Information Support Services - Wichita Kansas
russ....@boeing.com - (316) 526-9364
Views and/or opinions expressed herein are those of the sender and
should
not be construed to represent policies or positions of The Boeing
Company.
Yohaun
In article <3371EB...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com>,
J Russell Jones <tjj...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com> wrote:
>To really shorten the life of a CD, put one in the microwave and nuke
>it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
Well, come on! Don't leave us hanging; we want the gory details! Sights,
sounds, numbers, pictures! Data!
I'd try this myself but I don't have a microwave.
Regards,
Yohaun.
--
\|/ Imagine this living carcass, screaming. \|/
-- * -- screaming endlessly into the anechoic void... -- * --
/|\ /|\
Just Me
Yohaun wrote:
>
> In article <3371EB...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com>,
> J Russell Jones <tjj...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com> wrote:
> >To really shorten the life of a CD, put one in the microwave and nuke
> >it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
>
> Well, come on! Don't leave us hanging; we want the gory details! Sights,
> sounds, numbers, pictures! Data!
>
> I'd try this myself but I don't have a microwave.
I tried it, I put a Micheal Bolton CD in my microwave. The damned thing
spat it back out. Something else i found that is really cool:
I built an acetylene cannon (calcium carbide & water) with black plastic
pipe. I taped a CD to the end and lit the cannon. That was three months
ago, I'm still find bits of CD in my garden.
Tony Sweeney
jo...@visi.com wrote:
>
> In alt.folklore.urban J Russell Jones <tjj...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com> wrote:
>
> : To really shorten the life of a CD, put one in the microwave and nuke
> : it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
>
In a modern one, nothing. Early microwaves really couldn't
tolerate metal in the oven -- huge currents are induced in
metal in a microwave, and the energy to do this has to come
from somewhere. That somewhere is the cavity magnetron (or whatever
it's called) making the microwaves. In early models, the
extra current draw was enough to overheat and/or break the
device. Better materials have made this no longer a problem.
Tony.
John
> In article <3371EB...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com>,
> J Russell Jones <tjj...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com> wrote:
> >To really shorten the life of a CD, put one in the microwave and nuke
> >it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
>
Man, I wish someone had mentioned this to me before I trashed that last
aol CD I received in the mail!
Alexander Grover
> : To really shorten the life of a CD, put one in the microwave and nuke
> : it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
> What does this do for the lifespan of the microwave?
Beats me, but the arcing effect makes ID4's fx look like a home movie :)
######################################################################
Alexander B. Grover ! ! | Carleton University,
Kartoon U. @ | where the K stands for
\___/ | Quality!
Email address: agr...@chat.carleton.ca |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ray Depew
AF (TheCentral...@pobox.com) wrote:
: If you do this make ABSOLUTELY sure you put some disposable spacer
: between the CD and the microwave bottom. That is unless you want the CD
: to become a permanent fixture.
: The CD will start to melt almost immediately. 2 seconds is plenty to see
: the special effects.
Anybody here remember the grapes?
I learned this on alt.folklore.urban:
1. Cut a grape in half, but leave it connected on one edge, like a hinge.
2. Open the grape and lay it on a plate (open side up, or down? I forget.
Try it open side down first.)
3. Put the plate in the microwave oven.
4. Turn on the microwave oven, at full power. Observe the way-cool light
show through the oven's window. Not as spectacular as a CD, but still
pretty neat.
5. Turn off the microwave oven before the smell of cooked grape gets
unbearable.
Regards
Ray
Brett Weiss
Pete Fraser <pfr...@dnai.com> wrote in article
<pfraser-0505...@bk-np2-10.np.dnai.com>...
> Could well be true, but I never pause my CD player. Also, my holes are
close
> to circular.
Termites! Termites!
--
Brett
Russ Jones
John wrote:
>
> > In article <3371EB...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com>,
> > J Russell Jones <tjj...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com> wrote:
> > >it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
> >
>
> aol CD I received in the mail!
Don't they have an 800 number? They'll mail you one or a dozen. You
really gotta see it to belive it!
--
---
Russ Jones - Boeing Information Support Services - Wichita Kansas
russ....@boeing.com
Views and/or opinions expressed herein are those of the sender and
Russ Jones
Russ Jones wrote:
>
> John wrote:
> >
> > > In article <3371EB...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com>,
> > > J Russell Jones <tjj...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com> wrote:
> > > >To really shorten the life of a CD, put one in the microwave and nuke
> > > >it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
> > >
> >
> > Man, I wish someone had mentioned this to me before I trashed that last
> > aol CD I received in the mail!
>
> Don't they have an 800 number? They'll mail you one or a dozen. You
> really gotta see it to belive it!
They do, they do. Call AOL at 1-800-827-6364 and ask for a CD. Tell 'em
you are doing scientific research.
Terry Smith
> From: Just Me <mind...@worldnet.att.net>
> Message-Id: <337256...@worldnet.att.net>
> I built an acetylene cannon... [miner's lamp with a grudge]
That's fuckin charming, that is. We'll have who only knows many national
security and safety organisations screaming about teaching [insert
favourite savage]s military secrets now. When we get calcium carbide, we
gnaw it for the mineral content.
It's only interesting here if you blew your balls off, and consequently
had to sit in an iced-water bath with a telephone in close proximity, and
only heard about it afterwards in the office.
Terry
--
|Fidonet: Terry Smith 3:800/846.23
|Internet: Te...@gastro.apana.org.au
|Commercial posts stored for US$500 per day.
|Use of my system constitutes acceptance of this offer
Just Me
Tony Sweeney wrote:
>
> jo...@visi.com wrote:
> >
> > In alt.folklore.urban J Russell Jones <tjj...@unixmail.ks.boeing.com> wrote:
> >
> > : To really shorten the life of a CD, put one in the microwave and nuke
> > : it. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
> >
>
> tolerate metal in the oven -- huge currents are induced in
> metal in a microwave, and the energy to do this has to come
> from somewhere. That somewhere is the cavity magnetron (or whatever
> it's called) making the microwaves. In early models, the
> extra current draw was enough to overheat and/or break the
> device. Better materials have made this no longer a problem.
>
> Tony.
Gee, and I thought it was that the arcing generated enough ESI/EMI to
destroy the electronic components in it.