ketchup v. tomato sauce: the controversy
abzorba
subject probably been traversed before, but it’s a live issue again in
Australia, so I’ll revisit it, possibly from a different angle. It is
customary to deplore the intrusion of Americanisms into the British
and Australian vernacular. But my objection to, say, the gradual
replacement of the tried and true “mate” of Australian idiom with the
borderline offensive American “buddy” does not extend to ALL
Americanisms. To be fair, I think many American terms, including
neologisms, are to be preferred to the alternatives. Many Australians
froth at the mouth over the use of the American term “tomato ketchup”
over the native “tomato sauce” but I am not with the patriots on this
one—there are very good reasons why ketchup is the better word.
Most Aussies would be surprised to learn that the unusual sounding
“ketchup” is most probably derived from a Malay word for a type of
relish with fish and pickles in it that the British came across in the
early 18th Century. This was a time of their colonial adventures. (I
remember having to sing as a kid that line from a hymn that goes
“dominion over palm and pine” – ketchup was a consequence of the
“palm” side of their colonialism) Anyway, the Brits took it back home,
where it became very popular. (And ketchup “sounds” very Indonesian or
Malay, doesn’t it?) It did NOT have tomato in it at that time.
Then, as the excellent Wikipedia article on “ketchup”, relates by
1801, a recipe for tomato ketchup was created by Sandy Addison and was
later printed in an American cookbook, the Sugar House Book. Tomatoes
were popular in America, and tomato ketchup became a staple. Shortly
thereafter, Heinz and then other companies launched their variant
versions of tomato ketchup. This was in the late 19th Century and by
then, there were very few if any ingredients in common with the
original ketchup.
So it is a bit rich to the Aussies to make such a fuss over a
condiment which they love, but which is an American invention. The
word “ketchup” is not an Americanism, it was Malay, and the word was
common in Britain before Australia was settled by whites. That’s my
first point.
My second point is that Australians are at opposite poles to the Yanks
when it comes to coining new words. We hardly ever do it. In a world
where there are many types of liquid or semi-liquid variants of tomato
sauces, it is gormless to insist on call a special form of one of them
“tomato sauce”. There is tomato puree, tomato paste, tomato relish,
and so on. Tomato sauce is pureed tomatoes with some seasoning. This
is what cooks would mean when they refer to “tomato sauce”. That kind
of sauce would go well over pasta, for instance. But you would not put
the Aussie “tomato sauce” over pasta, it is far too rich. It is a
condiment, used sparingly, and goes on sausages, bacon and the like, a
couple of squeezes and a couple of squeezes will do ya. So it is good
linguistic practice to make a distinction between the two, and reserve
the term “ketchup” for the more concentrated and spicy stuff.
And we should remember to thank the Americans for providing us with
this much-loved and well-named relish, instead of being pompous and
ungrateful about it.
Fred
"abzorba" <myle...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:04f26842-d2b0-47a8...@u19g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
Is the practise of beginning sentences with the unnecessary cliché, 'to be
fair' of Australian origin?
Peter Brooks
>
>
> So it is a bit rich to the Aussies to make such a fuss over a
> condiment which they love, but which is an American invention. The
> word “ketchup” is not an Americanism, it was Malay, and the word was
> common in Britain before Australia was settled by whites. That’s my
>
"
ketchup
(ˈkɛtʃəp, -ʌp)
Also 8 kitchup: see also catchup.
[app. ad. Chinese (Amoy dial.) kôechiap or kê-tsiap brine of pickled
fish or shell-fish (Douglas Chinese Dict. 46/1, 242/1). Malay kēchap
(in Du. spelling ketjap), which has been claimed as the original
source (Scott Malayan Wds. in English 64–67), may be from Chinese.
The Japanese kitjap, alleged in some recent dicts., is an
impossible form for that language. (? error for Javanese.)]
A sauce made from the juice of mushrooms, walnuts, tomatoes, etc., and
used as a condiment with meat, fish, or the like. Often with
qualification, as mushroom ketchup, etc.
1711 Lockyer Acc. Trade India 128 Soy comes in Tubbs from Jappan,
and the best Ketchup from Tonquin; yet good of both sorts are made and
sold very cheap in China. 1748 Mrs. Harrison House-kpr.'s Pocket-
bk. i. (ed. 4) 2, I therefore advise you to lay in a Store of Spices,‥
neither ought you to be without‥Kitchup, or Mushroom Juice. 1817
Byron Beppo viii, Buy in gross‥Ketchup, Soy, Chili⁓vinegar, and
Harvey. 1840 Dickens Barn. Rudge (1849) 91/1 Some lamb chops
(breaded, with plenty of ketchup). 1874 Cooke Fungi 89 One
important use to which several‥fungi can be applied, is the
manufacture of ketchup.
"
G
referred to as red sauce.
James Hogg
> In Britain (In the East Midlands at least) I have often heard it
> referred to as red sauce.
That's to distinguish it from the other bottle with the brown sauce and
the Houses of Parliament on the label.
--
James
Adam Funk
> The OED sayeth:
> ketchup
> (ˈkɛtʃəp, -ʌp)
> Also 8 kitchup: see also catchup.
>
> [app. ad. Chinese (Amoy dial.) kôechiap or kê-tsiap brine of pickled
> fish or shell-fish (Douglas Chinese Dict. 46/1, 242/1). Malay kēchap
> (in Du. spelling ketjap), which has been claimed as the original
> source (Scott Malayan Wds. in English 64–67), may be from Chinese.
> The Japanese kitjap, alleged in some recent dicts., is an
> impossible form for that language. (? error for Javanese.)]
>
> A sauce made from the juice of mushrooms, walnuts, tomatoes, etc., and
> used as a condiment with meat, fish, or the like. Often with
> qualification, as mushroom ketchup, etc.
>
> 1711 Lockyer Acc. Trade India 128 Soy comes in Tubbs from Jappan,
> and the best Ketchup from Tonquin; yet good of both sorts are made and
> sold very cheap in China. 1748 Mrs. Harrison House-kpr.'s Pocket-
> bk. i. (ed. 4) 2, I therefore advise you to lay in a Store of Spices,‥
> neither ought you to be without‥Kitchup, or Mushroom Juice. 1817
> Byron Beppo viii, Buy in gross‥Ketchup, Soy, Chili⁓vinegar, and
> Harvey. 1840 Dickens Barn. Rudge (1849) 91/1 Some lamb chops
> (breaded, with plenty of ketchup). 1874 Cooke Fungi 89 One
> important use to which several‥fungi can be applied, is the
> manufacture of ketchup.
More historical information here:
http://languageoffood.blogspot.com/2009/09/ketchup.html
(I like the mushroom ketchup illustrated there.)
--
Civilization is a race between catastrophe and education.
[H G Wells]
Don Phillipson
news:04f26842-d2b0-47a8...@u19g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
> Many Australians
> froth at the mouth over the use of the American term “tomato ketchup”
> over the native “tomato sauce” but I am not with the patriots on this
> one—there are very good reasons why ketchup is the better word.
> . . .
> “ketchup” is most probably derived from a Malay word for a type of
> relish with fish and pickles in it that the British came across in the
> early 18th Century.
Dutch experience (from the 17th century to contemporary bottle labels)
suggests (Malay) kechap simply means sauce, thus is properly used for
Chinese soy sauce (fermented beans), Vietnamese nuoc mam (fermented
fish) and many others such as Worcester and Tabasco. (This implies
American usage for their tomato sauces is not misplaced, cf. also their
interesting back-formation "catsup," preferred in some regions as a
genteelism.) Perhaps Australian gourmands have not yet read the
labels but the gourmets must have.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Roland Hutchinson
> Dutch experience (from the 17th century to contemporary bottle labels)
> suggests (Malay) kechap simply means sauce, thus is properly used for
> Chinese soy sauce (fermented beans), Vietnamese nuoc mam (fermented
> fish) and many others such as Worcester and Tabasco. (This implies
> American usage for their tomato sauces is not misplaced, cf. also their
> interesting back-formation "catsup," preferred in some regions as a
> genteelism.)
Though heaven knows why suggesting something the cat might have dragged
in (or, worse, a comestible prepared from cat) should count as a
genteelism. Folk-etymology--I could buy that!
> Perhaps Australian gourmands have not yet read the labels
> but the gourmets must have.
We were able to get some lovely bottled mushroom catsup (thin liquid,
flavorful) here a while back, but the source seems to have dried up.
--
Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> We were able to get some lovely bottled mushroom catsup (thin liquid,
> flavorful) here a while back, but the source seems to have dried up.
Mushroom ketchup is easy and fun to make. There's a whole regiment of
these old-fashioned store sauces, mostly in that sort of genre. The one
I haven't yet got round to making is Mustapha Ketchup, which starts with
a whole raw ox liver: I'll try a scaled-down version one of these
days...
--
Mike.
abzorba
wrote:
Thanks for the loads of good info here, but I am wondering why
"catsup" should be considered more genteel than "ketchup".
Roland Hutchinson
I do have some recipes for mushroom ketchup, but we've never gotten
around to trying them. The ready-made stuff was _very_ convenient.
R H Draney
>
>On Nov 6, 9:33=A0am, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk>
>wrote:
>>
>> Mushroom ketchup is easy and fun to make. There's a whole regiment of
>> these old-fashioned store sauces, mostly in that sort of genre. The one
>> I haven't yet got round to making is Mustapha Ketchup, which starts with
>> a whole raw ox liver: I'll try a scaled-down version one of these
>> days...
>
>"catsup" should be considered more genteel than "ketchup".
I believe it was Neil Simon who declared that any word with a K in it is
automatically funny....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
abzorba
> Mushroom ketchup is easy and fun to make. There's a whole regiment of
> these old-fashioned store sauces, mostly in that sort of genre. The one
> I haven't yet got round to making is Mustapha Ketchup, which starts with
> a whole raw ox liver: I'll try a scaled-down version one of these
> days...
Yes, but where are you going to find a scaled-down ox for the whole
raw liver?
- Myle...@yahoo.com.au
“Well, this changes things!”: newly emergent butterfly flapping
wings.
Carl
Pat Durkin
"Carl" <cjper...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b608f892-659b-499d...@y23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Very funny...and apt!
Donna Richoux
> I believe it was Neil Simon who declared that any word with a K in it is
> automatically funny....r
Well, Neil Simon put it into "The Sunshine Boys," but he wasn't the
first. It may have been a piece of comic folklore for a long time.
Wikipedia has an article "Inherently Funny Words" (also numbers) which
says among other things:
In an article in the New Yorker published in 1936, H. L.
Mencken argues that "k words" are funny. "K, for
some occult reason, has always appealed to the
oafish risibles of the American plain people, and its
presence in the names of many ... places has helped
to make them joke towns ... for example, Kankakee,
Kalamazoo, Hoboken, Hohokus, Yonkers, Squeedunk, '
Stinktown' and Brooklyn."
In Neil Simon's play The Sunshine Boys, a character says,
"Words with a k in it are funny.
Alka-Seltzer is funny. Chicken is funny.
Pickle is funny. All with a k. Ls are not funny. Ms
are not funny."
I believe Wikipedia is wrong about the Mencken piece being in 1936 --
maybe he said it elsewhere then, but I am nearly 100% certain he said it
in a New Yorker piece of September 25, 1948, "The Podunk Mystery."A
technical problem with the New Yorker archive stops me from seeing the
full article, but I hope that will be resolved soon.
--
Best - Donna Richoux
Mike Lyle
Hmm...he may have been onto something... ducks are funny...fucking ducks
are funny till you actually see it...chicken joke...cock...but back
isn't funny...stack, slack...no, not proven.
And I'm with Abzorba on "catsup". A daft word, and, as somebody
suggested, carries suggestions of unsavoury feline activities.
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
> Mike Lyle enthused:
>
>> Mushroom ketchup is easy and fun to make. There's a whole regiment of
>> these old-fashioned store sauces, mostly in that sort of genre. The
>> one I haven't yet got round to making is Mustapha Ketchup, which
>> starts with a whole raw ox liver: I'll try a scaled-down version one
>> of these days...
>
> Yes, but where are you going to find a scaled-down ox for the whole
> raw liver?
Dexter, perhaps. An AI man once gave me a lift, and hinted at
considerable funniness with that breed.
--
Mike..
R H Draney
>
>R H Draney wrote:
>>
>> I believe it was Neil Simon who declared that any word with a K in it
>> is automatically funny....r
>
>Hmm...he may have been onto something... ducks are funny...fucking ducks
>are funny till you actually see it...chicken joke...cock...but back
>isn't funny...stack, slack...no, not proven.
As I understand it, the underlying rule is that if two similar words are given,
one with a K and one without, the former is funnier than the latter..."back" is
not a knee-slapper itself, but it's funnier than "front", and if the domain is
"anatomical regions", it's got it all over "elbow" and shin"....r
abzorba
What about Kafka? That's kind of funny and scary at the same time. A
Kafkaesque sequence is not obviously comical, and yet...maybe it is in
a kind of black way. K is used by the Germans in place of C. And
perhaps that's why the substitution of K for C has a sort of fascist
kind of look. Remember when radicals used to spell it “Amerika”. (And
of course Kafka wrote a novel with that title.) There are lots of such
examples. And of course the Ku Klux Klan. Here's another example of
something that is funny and scary at the same time.
R H Draney
>
>On Nov 7, 10:08=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> As I understand it, the underlying rule is that if two similar words are =
>given,
>> one with a K and one without, the former is funnier than the latter..."ba=
>ck" is
>> not a knee-slapper itself, but it's funnier than "front", and if the doma=
>in is
>> "anatomical regions", it's got it all over "elbow" and shin"....r
>
>Kafkaesque sequence is not obviously comical, and yet...maybe it is in
>a kind of black way. K is used by the Germans in place of C. And
>perhaps that's why the substitution of K for C has a sort of fascist
>of course Kafka wrote a novel with that title.) There are lots of such
>examples. And of course the Ku Klux Klan. Here's another example of
>something that is funny and scary at the same time.
And the racist-baiting "Amerikkka", which manages to combine both references in
a single word....
Kafka comical?...perhaps in a cosmic (or "kozmic", pace Janis Joplin?) sense;
the universe is laughing at us poor helpless creatures who think we have any
control over things....
abzorba
You're onto something there. The joke that has become a meme, the one
where the lunatic points to his head and says "kidneys, kidneys" would
not be so funny if "spleen, spleen" were substituted.
- Myle...@yahoo.com.au
abzorba
>
> - Show quoted text -
Kafka is not as universally desolate as some think. In "The
Metamorphosis", for example, there is humour in the surreal nature of
Gregor’s dilemma. His first thoughts on finding that he has become a
monstrous insect overnight are on how he is going to make it to work
on time. Other short stories are lighter in tone to his main novels.
In any case, the gods may be laughing at our helplessness, but then,
as philosophers have pointed out, humour is a way of releasing the
spirit from a prison. So we can laugh right back.
The Teutonic use of k has, in the Western counter-culture led to some
notion that the English c is somewhat bourgeois and effete. So there
is a lot of transposition of k and c. Kool Kat springs to mind, and
also the mantel piece. Krusty the Clown is another, Korn is the name
of a heavy metal group, and so on. Of course, Kaiser is the German
variant of Caesar, so there you go.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Soon after reading that I was browsing the website of The Times of
India. I noticed this article:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Entertainment-Bollywood-News-Interviews/Aamir-Kiran-on-Koffee-With-Karan/articleshow/6880037.cms
Aamir, Kiran on Koffee With Karan
Diksha Kamra, TNN, Nov 7, 2010, 12.00am IST
Karan Johar, who's as famous for 'Koffee With Karan' as he is for
his films, says that he wants Aamir Khan to come to his show, not
with Salman, but with wife Kiran Rao.
I have to be honest, I don't write those questions myself. If at all
I do, it's only for the rapid fire, at times. But I don't think I
need any homework, I know a lot about them anyway," says Karan Johar
about his show 'Koffee With Karan'. He's down with malaria, and
couldn't accompany buddy SRK for his birthday celebrations in
Berlin.
....
I wonder whether the letter K has the same effect in India?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Irwell
> On Nov 7, 1:12ļæ½pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> abzorba filted:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Nov 7, 10:08=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> As I understand it, the underlying rule is that if two similar words are =
>>>given,
>>>> one with a K and one without, the former is funnier than the latter..."ba=
>>>ck" is
>>>> not a knee-slapper itself, but it's funnier than "front", and if the doma=
>>>in is
>>>> "anatomical regions", it's got it all over "elbow" and shin"....r
>>
>>>What about Kafka? That's kind of funny and scary at the same time. A
>>>Kafkaesque sequence is not obviously comical, and yet...maybe it is in
>>>a kind of black way. K is used by the Germans in place of C. And
>>>perhaps that's why the substitution of K for C has a sort of fascist
>>>kind of look. Remember when radicals used to spell it =93Amerika=94. (And
>>>of course Kafka wrote a novel with that title.) There are lots of such
>>>examples. And of course the Ku Klux Klan. Here's another example of
>>>something that is funny and scary at the same time.
>>
>> And the racist-baiting "Amerikkka", which manages to combine both references in
>> a single word....
>>
>> Kafka comical?...perhaps in a cosmic (or "kozmic", pace Janis Joplin?) sense;
>> the universe is laughing at us poor helpless creatures who think we have any
>> control over things....
>>
>> --
>> Me? ļæ½Sarcastic?
>> Yeah, right.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Kafka is not as universally desolate as some think. In "The
> Metamorphosis", for example, there is humour in the surreal nature of
> Gregorļæ½s dilemma. His first thoughts on finding that he has become a
> monstrous insect overnight are on how he is going to make it to work
> on time. Other short stories are lighter in tone to his main novels.
> In any case, the gods may be laughing at our helplessness, but then,
> as philosophers have pointed out, humour is a way of releasing the
> spirit from a prison. So we can laugh right back.
>
> The Teutonic use of k has, in the Western counter-culture led to some
> notion that the English c is somewhat bourgeois and effete. So there
> is a lot of transposition of k and c. Kool Kat springs to mind, and
> also the mantel piece. Krusty the Clown is another, Korn is the name
> of a heavy metal group, and so on. Of course, Kaiser is the German
> variant of Caesar, so there you go.
>
> Myle...@yahoo.com.au
> ļæ½Well, this changes things!ļæ½: newly emergent butterfly flapping
> wings.
Does Irak sound more menacing than Iraq?
Vinny Burgoo
> >> I believe it was Neil Simon who declared that any word with a K in it
> >> is automaticallyfunny....r
>
> >Hmm...he may have been onto something... ducks arefunny...fucking ducks
> >arefunnytill you actually see it...chicken joke...cock...but back
> >isn'tfunny...stack, slack...no, not proven.
>
> As I understand it, the underlying rule is that if two similarwordsare given,
> one with a K and one without, the former is funnier than the latter..."back" is
> not a knee-slapper itself, but it's funnier than "front", and if the domain is
> "anatomical regions", it's got it all over "elbow" and shin"....r
Thus rule doesn't work. 'Biscuits' is inherently funnier than
'cookies', 'manly' beats 'manky' and 'lard' beats everything.
--
VB
Richard Bollard
<myle...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>But you would not put
>the Aussie �tomato sauce� over pasta, it is far too rich. It is a
>condiment, used sparingly, and goes on sausages, bacon and the like, a
>couple of squeezes and a couple of squeezes will do ya. So it is good
>linguistic practice to make a distinction between the two, and reserve
>the term �ketchup� for the more concentrated and spicy stuff.
>
On bacon? How strange. It can get there accidentally but never, in my
experience, deliberately.
A lot of the yoof put it on chips. It belongs on a meat pie, all
varieties of snag (hot dogs, sausage inna bun, etc). Some put it on
steak but they are uncouth.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
R H Draney
Maybe there's hope yet...do you put either of these sauces (or anything similar)
on scrambled eggs?...r
Adam Funk
> And I'm with Abzorba on "catsup". A daft word, and, as somebody
> suggested, carries suggestions of unsavoury feline activities.
And why is "sup dog" compounded the other way?
--
Mathematiker sind wie Franzosen: Was man ihnen auch sagt, übersetzen
sie in ihre eigene Sprache, so daß unverzüglich etwas völlig anderes
daraus wird. [Goethe]
R H Draney
>
>On 2010-11-06, Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> And I'm with Abzorba on "catsup". A daft word, and, as somebody
>> suggested, carries suggestions of unsavoury feline activities.
>
>
>And why is "sup dog" compounded the other way?
Because dogs, unlike cats, are predominantly right-handed....r
Peter Brooks
hind-pawed but right fore-pawed. Would you describe such a creature as
left or right handed?
This happens with people, who can be left-handed, but right-footed;
Also, of course, many can be right-handed, but wrong-footed.
R H Draney
It's easy enough to test a pet's forepaw preference...hold something just out of
range and see how they reach for it....r
Donna Richoux
> On 2010-11-06, Mike Lyle wrote:
>
> > And I'm with Abzorba on "catsup". A daft word, and, as somebody
> > suggested, carries suggestions of unsavoury feline activities.
>
>
> And why is "sup dog" compounded the other way?
You're waiting for someone to ask "Whuzzup, dog?" aren't you?
(Some jokes are hard to spell.)
abzorba
> >> Yeah, right.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Kafka is not as universally desolate as some think. In "The
> > Metamorphosis", for example, there is humour in the surreal nature of
> > monstrous insect overnight are on how he is going to make it to work
> > on time. Other short stories are lighter in tone to his main novels.
> > In any case, the gods may be laughing at our helplessness, but then,
> > as philosophers have pointed out, humour is a way of releasing the
> > spirit from a prison. So we can laugh right back.
>
> > The Teutonic use of k has, in the Western counter-culture led to some
> > notion that the English c is somewhat bourgeois and effete. So there
> > is a lot of transposition of k and c. Kool Kat springs to mind, and
> > also the mantel piece. Krusty the Clown is another, Korn is the name
> > of a heavy metal group, and so on. Of course, Kaiser is the German
> > variant of Caesar, so there you go.
>
> > Well, this changes things! : newly emergent butterfly flapping
> > wings.
>
> Does Irak sound more menacing than Iraq?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
This just in. Kaka sounds a LOT funnier than shit. (Ask Boris)
- Myle...@yahoo.com.au
“Well, this changes things!”: newly emergent butterfly flapping
wings.
Richard Bollard
*I* don't but I can't speak for others. Fried egg can sometimes
welcome a savoury soupcon of sauce (but I prefer something less sweet
like my Byron Bay green jalapeno chilli sauce that I have to order
over the internet now).
Richard Bollard
Observation suggests that my Polly is right-pawed. I have often seen
her flash a warning paw towards the dog and it is always a right-hand
jab. She does it without breaking stride if he is getting too close.
He knows what it means.
Peter Moylan
In my primary school days I was occasionally allowed to skip the
sandwiches and buy my lunch. There were only two kinds of lunches that
anyone thought worth buying [1]. Either you went to the fish shop and
bought a piece of fish and thrippence worth of chips, or you went to the
bakery and asked for a pie with sauce.
I never saw anyone go without the sauce, even though it cost a penny extra.
(No sauce on the fish and chips, of course. That would have been
unthinkable. Instead, we had vinegar.)
[1] Three, now that I think of it [2]. The bakery also sold pasties.
[2] Four, actually. My brother used to buy a strange-looking thing
called a Boston bun. It seemed to be a huge piece of bread with icing on it.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>[2] Four, actually. My brother used to buy a strange-looking thing
>called a Boston bun. It seemed to be a huge piece of bread with icing on it.
Something like this?
http://www.100cafestreet.com/category/creative-ideas/page/3/
Peter Moylan
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:50:35 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> [2] Four, actually. My brother used to buy a strange-looking thing
>> called a Boston bun. It seemed to be a huge piece of bread with icing on it.
>
> Something like this?
> http://www.100cafestreet.com/category/creative-ideas/page/3/
>
possibly the same recipe.
abzorba
Lord, don't start in on octopuses. We'll be here all night!
Abzorba Myles (knows Mrs Palmer and her 5 daughters) Paulsen
Peter Brooks
>
>
> Lord, don't start in on octopuses. We'll be here all night!
>
This week's Spectator (well, last week's if you've access to the one
published yesterday) has a competition to produce an elegy for the
dead octopus that was involved with predicting soccer scores:
http://newstaging.spectator.widearea.co.uk/the-magazine/diversions/6440203/competition.thtml
abzorba
Shit... He were done in, weren't he? First Phar Lap, and now Paul. Of
course, how could the bookies make money from the poor punter when
Paul would give them the good oil every time? That's why they done
Phar Lap in. The big end of town done it. Too many wins. And too
many wins did for Paul too. I never knew he were daid until just now.
I'm off to bed.
Abzorba - Myles (It's all just too much for this punter) Paulsen
John Holmes
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:50:35 +1100, Peter Moylan
>> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> [2] Four, actually. My brother used to buy a strange-looking thing
>>> called a Boston bun. It seemed to be a huge piece of bread with
>>> icing on it.
>>
>> Something like this?
>> http://www.100cafestreet.com/category/creative-ideas/page/3/
>>
> It didn't look like that picture, but it's the same general idea and
> possibly the same recipe.
This is more like the ones I've seen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_bun
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>Peter Moylan wrote:
>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:50:35 +1100, Peter Moylan
>>> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [2] Four, actually. My brother used to buy a strange-looking thing
>>>> called a Boston bun. It seemed to be a huge piece of bread with
>>>> icing on it.
>>>
>>> Something like this?
>>> http://www.100cafestreet.com/category/creative-ideas/page/3/
>>>
>> It didn't look like that picture, but it's the same general idea and
>> possibly the same recipe.
>
>This is more like the ones I've seen:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_bun
That says that in New Zealand the Boston bun is often called a Sally
Lunn.
The original Sally Lunn did not have icing on it.
http://www.sallylunns.co.uk/history,intro.htm
Peter Moylan
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:50:35 +1100, Peter Moylan
>>> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [2] Four, actually. My brother used to buy a strange-looking thing
>>>> called a Boston bun. It seemed to be a huge piece of bread with
>>>> icing on it.
>>>
>>> Something like this?
>>> http://www.100cafestreet.com/category/creative-ideas/page/3/
>>>
>> It didn't look like that picture, but it's the same general idea and
>> possibly the same recipe.
>
> This is more like the ones I've seen:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_bun
>
I never knew it was Australian. I thought it came from Boston.
abzorba
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yep, here's another confirming instance of my theory that every aue
thread eventually ends up talking about food. Not, love, not
philosophy, just food.
Myles (if you can't beet them, joint them) Paulsen
Richard Bollard
Especially the ones that _began_ talking about food.