Computers, Hollywood Style!
Peter
: In article <1e.7418.35...@ablelink.org>,
: Stan Salter <stan....@ablelink.org> wrote:
:
: >MU>>A problem with a lot of the software depicted on TV/movies is
: > >>that it is obviously fake.
:
: >What I find amazing is the number of TV shows that show someone
: >writing a book or story or whatever and the screen is in 40 column
:
: Also, they always show people entering passwords that echo to the screen,
: a definite no-no... some older systems may have done this, but just about
: all newer systems don't cause the password to be echoed.
:
: Something else that I've noticed: they show people entering passwords,
: but in many instances, they don't show any login or username being
: entered.
:
: Something else: ever notice how, in great big letters, the words
: "ACCESS DENIED" frequently start flashing on the screen when they
: can't guess the password? I'm just waiting until they start showing
: the terminals becoming a bit more animated and the terminals, or
: monitors, begin to be shown jumping up and conking people over the
: head when they fail to guess the right password, and then crashing
: onto the floor, displaying a fantastic show of sparks.
:
: --
And computers on TV and in movies are always beeping and making
'computerish' electronic noises. And I just love those computers
with huge banks of flashing lights. It would really impress my
friends if I actually worked on something like that!! At least
we rarely see Hollywood computers with spinning reals these days.
The computers on the Enterprise are really strange. They have
perfect voice recognition, and yet people still often type things
in on their consoles. I suppose this is acceptable in various
situations (eg for security) but have you noticed what they
type on? Flat pieces of perspex!! If you have ever had to
type on a membrane keyboard (eg Old Ataris) you'd know how
damn annoying this is. No tactile feedback.
Actually, the times when I have seen the crew of the Enterprise
access the computer through security codes, they always say
the code out loud e.g. "Computer, key access 435621...".
And something else that bother me about Sci Fi shows; Most of
them use normal CRT monitors. I would have thought flat panel
displays would be perfected in the future. (Total Recall and
Trek are exceptions here).
And I really really hate it when all Aliens speak English.
Merry Chrismas.
-Peter.
Lauren Weinstein
>them use normal CRT monitors. I would have thought flat panel
>displays would be perfected in the future. (Total Recall and
>Trek are exceptions here).
Hmmm. I have lots of stories about things like this, but the one
that most closely applies goes back to when I was involved in the
production of "Star Trek the Motion Picture" (i.e. Star Trek I).
At one point I was asked for my opinion of what I thought would be
reasonable display systems for a ship in that time period (that is, the
Enterprise). Ya see, there was a problem. Some of the art production folks
wanted to use ROUND screens, because they thought they would look oh so nice
for displaying the various silly Whitney film loops they had planned for rear
projection. I pointed out that round screens were wasteful of space, and
that even with modern televisions the trend was toward the most rectangular,
flat displays possible which would provide maximal useful viewing area.
I also suggested that in reality there was a good chance that by the time
frame of Star Trek virtual "screens" might be in use, where displays could
appear on any surface, and even follow a viewer around, as necessary. I
also mentioned the concept of "holographic" or projected displays (in a crude
form, the type used by the computer-connected finger rings in "Zardoz").
I was told my ideas were great and they'd see what could be done. A few
days later I was told it was all for naught--it turned out that the prop
folks had already cast the round screen forms in fiberglas, and nobody
wanted to spend the money to change them. Paramount ended up wasting
amazing amounts of money on other things for the film, but that's a
different story.
So that, dear friends, is why the screens on the Enterprise in "Star
Trek the Motion Picture" look like early 1950's televisions.
--Lauren--
Ernst 'pooh' Mulder
In article <1993Dec24....@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au>,
p...@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au (Peter) writes:
>And computers on TV and in movies are always beeping and making
>'computerish' electronic noises. And I just love those computers
>with huge banks of flashing lights. It would really impress my
>friends if I actually worked on something like that!!
I won't say which computer to buy, (this is not a religious group,) but
mine has all sorts of different (star-trek-)sounds attached to all kinds of
different actions. For the lights, from the top of my screen, right now, a
bunch of blinking christmas-light are suspended.
>The computers on the Enterprise are really strange. They have
>perfect voice recognition, and yet people still often type things
>in on their consoles. I suppose this is acceptable in various
>situations (eg for security) but have you noticed what they
>type on? Flat pieces of perspex!! If you have ever had to
>type on a membrane keyboard (eg Old Ataris) you'd know how
>damn annoying this is. No tactile feedback.
For the workings and explanation of these 'Display panels' I refer to the
'Star Trek The Next Generation Technical Manual', p. 34. It's really all
quite intriguing.
pooh
----
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Ernst 'pooh' Mulder
It seems we ended up (as I often do) discussing Star Trek, but anyways.
There is a striking difference between user-interface and lay-out of the
main bridge of the Enterprise if you compare ST:TNG with Star Trek VI
(which in my opinion is the best STMP so far).
The ST VI bridge is all Blinkenlichten and hundreds of tiny displays and so
forth, whilst the ST:TNG bridge is very sober and smooth.
About computers in ST:TOS, I think the computer 'disks' or 'cubes' (what do
they call them?) are something we'll see in our reality in the not so far
away future. I'm really in for solid-state audio.
Phil Torre KB7ZFH
>
>Hmmm. I have lots of stories about things like this, but the one
>that most closely applies goes back to when I was involved in the
>production of "Star Trek the Motion Picture" (i.e. Star Trek I).
...deletia...
>I was told my ideas were great and they'd see what could be done. A few
>days later I was told it was all for naught--it turned out that the prop
>folks had already cast the round screen forms in fiberglas, and nobody
>wanted to spend the money to change them. Paramount ended up wasting
>amazing amounts of money on other things for the film, but that's a
>different story.
This is rather off topic, but I wonder if anyone else has noticed these
other scenery bits:
Star Trek II (The Wrath of Khan): Remember when you were in grade school,
they had those lame filmstrips that came with a cassette, and someone got
to turn the knob to the next frame everytime the cassette went "bing!"?
Those things came in binders with some hardcopy; the film cans and tapes
themselves were held in this extruded plastic panel inside the front cover
of the binder, that had four round holes for film cans to fit into and four
depressions for cassettes to rest in.
These plastic panels can be seen on the walls of the bridge, painted beige.
Also, Seaquest DSV: They have a corridor on the set where crew members
pause for dramatic conversations. The walls of the corridor are lined
with these plastic things that look like some sort of plumbing. Actually,
they're those plastic jugs that you buy to change your oil with (with the
big screw-off lid for the old oil to drip into, and the built-in handle).
Obviously, the Seaquest is well prepared for any sudden oil changes.
Charlie Gibbs
p...@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au (Peter) writes:
>And computers on TV and in movies are always beeping and making
>'computerish' electronic noises.
Even worse, the writers of "real-world" software (especially Windows
applications), feel compelled to do the same. Life follows art.
> And I just love those computers
>with huge banks of flashing lights. It would really impress my
>friends if I actually worked on something like that!!
I really miss front panels. You could figure out a lot about what
what was happening on the fly. And, of course, nothing quite matched
the experience of toggling in (or modifying) programs through the
front panel switches.
> At least
>we rarely see Hollywood computers with spinning reals these days.
True, although I've rotated a few integers. :-) But seriously,
hardware became a lot less fun when 9-track tape drives faded
from view.
It seems that TV and movie computers have evolved along their own
path. In the '40s they had big brass dials and maybe a Jacob's
Ladder or two. In the '50s an oscilloscope displaying Lissajous
patterns was high-tech. In the '60s the all-knowing machine would
spit out a punch card containing the answer to anyone's question.
In the '70s we had spinning tape drives and Teletypes. The '80s
brought us sleek black panels with just a few LEDs (a style which
was quickly adopted by hi-fi equipment manufacturers and NeXT),
accompanied by CRTs with their huge ACCESS DENIED messages or
whatever. What will we see in the '90s? Well, maybe something
like Jurassic Park: "It's a Unix system!" - complete with
gratuitous GUIs.
But the HCF (halt and catch fire) instruction will probably be
with us forever. :-)
>And something else that bother me about Sci Fi shows; Most of
>them use normal CRT monitors. I would have thought flat panel
>displays would be perfected in the future. (Total Recall and
>Trek are exceptions here).
2001 was another notable exception.
Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca
"I'm cursed with hair from HELL!" -- Night Court
Michael Shapiro
>
> It seems that TV and movie computers have evolved along their own
> path. In the '40s they had big brass dials and maybe a Jacob's
> Ladder or two. In the '50s an oscilloscope displaying Lissajous
> patterns was high-tech. In the '60s the all-knowing machine would
> spit out a punch card containing the answer to anyone's question.
> In the '70s we had spinning tape drives and Teletypes. The '80s
> brought us sleek black panels with just a few LEDs (a style which
> was quickly adopted by hi-fi equipment manufacturers and NeXT),
> accompanied by CRTs with their huge ACCESS DENIED messages or
> whatever. What will we see in the '90s? Well, maybe something
> like Jurassic Park: "It's a Unix system!" - complete with
> gratuitous GUIs.
The "spinning tape drives" comment helped me recall the tale told to me
by an acquaintance that worked for a large computer firm. He said that
for election coverage, one local TV station director wanted to always be
able to show the computer running. This required a tape drive in motion.
His job was to program a tape controller to keep one or two drives always
in motion, going backward and forward on the tape with the typical
motions. That way the director could always have a camera focus on that
tape drive for fade-ins or fade-outs. The drives used for this were not
even connected to the main computer. This work being done in L.A., it's
rumored that after the coverage, one of the studios purchased the system
for their properties unit. And it appeared in several movies and TV shows.
--
INTERNET: msha...@netlink.nix.com (Michael Shapiro)
UUCP: ...!ryptyde!netlink!mshapiro
Network Information eXchange * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
StraitJacket
: I really miss front panels. You could figure out a lot about what
: what was happening on the fly. And, of course, nothing quite matched
: the experience of toggling in (or modifying) programs through the
: front panel switches.
The perfect add on card for your IBM compatable! The 'Throwback' (tm)
fits in any xt card slot, and 5.24 1/2 hight bay. Provides a indicaton of
addressing, interrupt and databus activity!
Completely isolated system, Switchable red/green display. includes eggshell
and classic black front plate!
: >And something else that bother me about Sci Fi shows; Most of
: >them use normal CRT monitors. I would have thought flat panel
: >displays would be perfected in the future. (Total Recall and
: >Trek are exceptions here).
: 2001 was another notable exception.
I loved the video clipboards!
--
Return: str...@eskimo.com (StraitJacket)
These opinions are mine, nobody else would claim them!
DragonDance software... Look out Microsoft!
Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Add me to your .signature and join in the fun!
Ralph Barbagallo
for the Enterprise! No keyboards, just chiclets and flat membranes!
--
Ralph A. Barbagallo III --- rbar...@cs.uml.edu --- Only AMIGA makes it
Possible...
Only C O M M O D O R E stands in the way....
ZzzzzZZZzzzzzzZzzzzzzz.... .
Ralph Barbagallo
I also like how in Star Trek I when they go into the rec room
(or whatever) with that posessed lady (whatever her name was) to show her the
high tech entertainment of the 21st century and the guy starts playing a
big game of shuffleboard!
Paul Tomblin
> Don't you remember? Clive Sinclair designed all the computers
>for the Enterprise! No keyboards, just chiclets and flat membranes!
Wouldn't that mean that the Enterprise was announced but never delivered?
--
Paul Tomblin. In Vicki Robinson we trust.
"When viewed from the proper perspective, this thread is actually just a bunch
of people being silly." - Daniel Lottero
Andrew Williams
>rbar...@cs.uml.edu (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
>> Don't you remember? Clive Sinclair designed all the computers
>>for the Enterprise! No keyboards, just chiclets and flat membranes!
>Wouldn't that mean that the Enterprise was announced but never delivered?
No- it just means that if the big round white RAMpack on top gets
wobbled, the whole ship gets rebooted, and when its docked, you have to
be careful about not knocking the power connector out. Actually, a
Sinclair Enterprise fits well with the show. How do you explain typing
galactic coordinates in 3D into the computer with 5 keypresses on a
machine without a tokenised keyboard?
Andrew Williams,
Physics, Uni of Western Australia.
Michael D. Maxfield
alt.folklore.computers
Is it true that the reason Sinclair had so many problems getting their
computers delivered was because they could never solve the problem of
oil leaks?
luis fernandes
and...@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Andrew Williams) writes:
No- it just means that if the big round white RAMpack on top gets
wobbled, the whole ship gets rebooted, and when its docked, you have to
be careful about not knocking the power connector out.
This explains all those recurring starboard power-coupling failures
in the past years.
Michael Shapiro
>
> Is it true that the reason Sinclair had so many problems getting their
> computers delivered was because they could never solve the problem of
> oil leaks?
Are you implying that computers should never have oil leaks? Perhaps
your knowledge of the machines doesn't go back far enough. One
installation I worked at in the 1960s had three IBM 7094s. One had an
air-cooled memory. The other two had oil-cooled memories. Occasional
oil leaks were a problem. Another problem once encountered was a fleck
of solder loose in the oil. It floated from position to position,
occasionally shorting out a memory location for a short time. The
solution, as I recall, was to drain the oil, filter it (that's how the
particle was found), and refill it. As I recall, the oil came out of an
IBM depot in Pennsylvania.
Steven King
>The perfect add on card for your IBM compatable! The 'Throwback' (tm)
>fits in any xt card slot, and 5.24 1/2 hight bay. Provides a indicaton of
>addressing, interrupt and databus activity!
As the man said in Robocop, "I *LIKE* it!" Maybe I'll build one for the
little Linux box I'm typing on. Lessee... Yep. Three empty 5.25"
bays, just begging for blinkenlights...
--
----------------------------------------<Steven King, ve...@pshrink.chi.il.us>--
Welcome to alt.folklore.computers, where subject drift is a highly refined
art form.
Steven King
>True, although I've rotated a few integers. :-) But seriously,
>hardware became a lot less fun when 9-track tape drives faded
>from view.
Am I the *ONLY* person on this group who still works with 9-track drives
every day? I mean as part of my day job, not for reasons of nostalgia.
The system I program (cellular telephone switch) has RAM, and it has
9-track tapes. Disk? What's a disk?
We also have 68030 based devices as peripherals to the central Z80
processing system. Ain't an evolutionary product wonderful?
Ernst 'pooh' Mulder
In article <35...@mindlink.bc.ca>, you write:
>I really miss front panels. You could figure out a lot about what
>what was happening on the fly. And, of course, nothing quite matched
>the experience of toggling in (or modifying) programs through the
>front panel switches.
During the period when I was using an Apple ][ I had added a MIPS-COUNTER
to my computer, which was a simple frequency-meter connected to some output
on the 6502 (forgot the name) which pulsed every time it had finished an
instruction. Thus the frequency was actually the 6502's current number of
instructions per second. I had the decimal dot positioned at 10^6, so
therefore it was a MIPS-COUNTER. Unfortunately it never did over 1 MIPS,
the max reading was with memory filled with nops, and a jump back to 200H.
ObFolklore:
Sometimes when I wanted to know whether the Apple ][ hung or was still
thinking about something, I would hold an AM radio next to it, the
resulting noise would give an indication of what was going on! :-)
Kelly Bert Manning
In a previous article, po...@brokendrum.stack.urc.tue.nl (Ernst 'pooh' Mulder) says:
>
>In article <35...@mindlink.bc.ca>, you write:
>>I really miss front panels. You could figure out a lot about what
>>what was happening on the fly. And, of course, nothing quite matched
>>the experience of toggling in (or modifying) programs through the
>>front panel switches.
In the late 70s Honeywell mainframes had an analog "applause meter" at
the console that gave a rough indication of how many cycles were acutally
being used by programs instead of by the operating system looking for
some work to do.
>
>During the period when I was using an Apple ][ I had added a MIPS-COUNTER
>to my computer, which was a simple frequency-meter connected to some output
>on the 6502 (forgot the name) which pulsed every time it had finished an
>instruction. Thus the frequency was actually the 6502's current number of
>instructions per second. I had the decimal dot positioned at 10^6, so
>therefore it was a MIPS-COUNTER. Unfortunately it never did over 1 MIPS,
>the max reading was with memory filled with nops, and a jump back to 200H.
>
>ObFolklore:
>Sometimes when I wanted to know whether the Apple ][ hung or was still
>thinking about something, I would hold an AM radio next to it, the
>resulting noise would give an indication of what was going on! :-)
>
>pooh
>----
>/* internet: po...@stack.urc.tue.nl * snail mail: Hoogstraat 214 *
> * po...@es.ele.tue.nl * 5615 PX Eindhoven *
> * telephone: +31 40-572314 (home) * the Netherlands *
> * +31 40-446969 (work) */
>
--
Edward Rice
E'> During the period when I was using an Apple ][ I had added a
E'> MIPS-COUNTER to my computer, which was a simple frequency-meter
E'> connected to some output on the 6502 (forgot the name) which pulsed
E'> every time it had finished an instruction. Thus the frequency was
E'> actually the 6502's current number of instructions per second. I had
E'> the decimal dot positioned at 10^6, so therefore it was a
E'> MIPS-COUNTER. Unfortunately it never did over 1 MIPS, the max reading
E'> was with memory filled with nops, and a jump back to 200H.
Honeywell mainframe consoles used to have a MIPS-meter. They were supposed to
be calibrated by qualified HFED reps only, but occasionally we'd tweak one of
the adjustment screws downwards significantly for a favored operator, leading
them to scream "why isn't this machine running right?" all the way down the
hall.
Deryk Barker
: In a previous article, po...@brokendrum.stack.urc.tue.nl (Ernst 'pooh' Mulder) says:
: >
: >In article <35...@mindlink.bc.ca>, you write:
: >>I really miss front panels. You could figure out a lot about what
: >>what was happening on the fly. And, of course, nothing quite matched
: >>the experience of toggling in (or modifying) programs through the
: >>front panel switches.
: In the late 70s Honeywell mainframes had an analog "applause meter" at
: the console that gave a rough indication of how many cycles were acutally
: being used by programs instead of by the operating system looking for
: some work to do.
Actually I think you'll find the speedometer was essentially nothing
more than an ammeter. Who told you the above?
--
Deryk.
=================================================================
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Without music, life |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada | would be a mistake |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | |
|phone: +1 604 370 4452 | (Friedrich Nietzsche).|
=================================================================
David Adams
>tw...@netcom.com (Michael D. Maxfield) writes:
>>
>> Is it true that the reason Sinclair had so many problems getting their
>> computers delivered was because they could never solve the problem of
>> oil leaks?
>Are you implying that computers should never have oil leaks? Perhaps
^^^^^^^^^
>your knowledge of the machines doesn't go back far enough. One
>installation I worked at in the 1960s had three IBM 7094s. One had an
>air-cooled memory. The other two had oil-cooled memories. Occasional
>oil leaks were a problem. Another problem once encountered was a fleck
>of solder loose in the oil. It floated from position to position,
>occasionally shorting out a memory location for a short time. The
>solution, as I recall, was to drain the oil, filter it (that's how the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>particle was found), and refill it. As I recall, the oil came out of an
>IBM depot in Pennsylvania.
Seems like some of those rea lly old computers had something called
grid leaks on them that was replaced in later years by FET drains.
Maybe that was how they got the oil out.
David "Don't forget to recyle your used computer oil" Adams
--
| David Adams | This is an Un-Registered Shareware version of the |
| ve...@netcom.com | Vicki Robinson sig. virus. Some features disabled |
Kelly Bert Manning
>Kelly Bert Manning (ua...@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA) wrote:
>: In a previous article, po...@brokendrum.stack.urc.tue.nl (Ernst 'pooh' Mulder) says:
>: >>I really miss front panels. You could figure out a lot about what
>: >>what was happening on the fly. And, of course, nothing quite matched
>: >>the experience of toggling in (or modifying) programs through the
>: >>front panel switches.
>
>: the console that gave a rough indication of how many cycles were acutally
>: being used by programs instead of by the operating system looking for
>: some work to do.
>
>Actually I think you'll find the speedometer was essentially nothing
>more than an ammeter. Who told you the above?
>
the needle jumped because someone was using the system again. This was a
little after midnight and the mainframe had the usual capacity surplus
that you get at night on a system sized for a 7:30 to 16:30 online
processing usage pattern. This was before micros or PCs and few people
had home terminals. If there was a problem at night I just took a cab
and used my key card to go into the machine room.
This was about the only
circumstance I was allowed in, apart from the first time I tried printing
a huge invoice run for real. The operators decided to have a little fun
with the "junior analyst" with the shiny new B.Sc. in Comp. Sci. by using
an old box of forms that someone had ordered for real cheap without
realizing that it was cheap because the paper was too thin to survive
a trip through a line printer without tearing every couple of minutes.
After comparing the forms they were using with the stock I had used for
testing on an RJE I realized that the paper weight was different and a
bit more examination turned up a different impression date at the bottom
of each page. When I pointed this out one of the operators reached around
behind the printer and pulled out the new stock, commenting "I guess
we had better recycle those old forms". Once we got past that they did
give me some useful advice, such as assigning a printer directly to my
job instead of dumping the whole print tape file to the print spool.
--
Edward Rice
DB> : In the late 70s Honeywell mainframes had an analog "applause meter"
DB> at : the console that gave a rough indication of how many cycles were
DB> acutally : being used by programs instead of by the operating system
DB> looking for : some work to do.
DB>
DB> Actually I think you'll find the speedometer was essentially nothing
DB> more than an ammeter. Who told you the above?
It was my impression (and I spent a lot of time with Honeywell mainframes)
that it was rate-of-change of the IC that it measured. What would an ammeter
be measuring that would tie in to system instructions-per-second?
iv...@cc.usu.edu
If you measured a bit set when the system entered user mode, you could do it.
The movement of the meter would average out the high-frequency transitions and
give you a general reading.
--
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Roger Ivie | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as
iv...@cc.usu.edu | 'obsolete-ready'
Dave Wagner
No, I think it was just the (inverse of the) percentage that the processor
was not in a DIS state.
--
Dave Wagner "My other computer is a T3D."
da...@cray.com , uunet!cray!davew "Beer, it's not just for
(612) 683-5393 breakfast anymore."
Dave Wagner
>edwar...@his.com (Edward Rice) writes:
>
>> DB> From: dbarker@turing (Deryk Barker)
>>
>> DB> : In the late 70s Honeywell mainframes had an analog "applause meter"
>> DB> at : the console that gave a rough indication of how many cycles were
>> DB> acutally : being used by programs instead of by the operating system
>> DB> looking for : some work to do.
>> DB>
>> DB> Actually I think you'll find the speedometer was essentially nothing
>> DB> more than an ammeter. Who told you the above?
>>
>>It was my impression (and I spent a lot of time with Honeywell mainframes)
>>that it was rate-of-change of the IC that it measured. What would an ammeter
>>be measuring that would tie in to system instructions-per-second?
>>
>No, I think it was just the (inverse of the) percentage that the processor
>was not in a DIS state.
>
Woops, too many negatives there, it's the percentage of time that the
processor was not in a DIS state -or- the inverse ...was in a DIS state.
(There was also a LED on the L66 panel (weren't they _great_ panels!) that
lit when the processor was DIS'd.
Deryk Barker
: da...@cray.com (Dave Wagner) writes:
: >edwar...@his.com (Edward Rice) writes:
: >
: >> DB> From: dbarker@turing (Deryk Barker)
: >>
: >> DB> : In the late 70s Honeywell mainframes had an analog "applause meter"
: >> DB> at : the console that gave a rough indication of how many cycles were
: >> DB> acutally : being used by programs instead of by the operating system
: >> DB> looking for : some work to do.
: >> DB>
: >> DB> Actually I think you'll find the speedometer was essentially nothing
: >> DB> more than an ammeter. Who told you the above?
: >>
: >>It was my impression (and I spent a lot of time with Honeywell mainframes)
: >>that it was rate-of-change of the IC that it measured. What would an ammeter
: >>be measuring that would tie in to system instructions-per-second?
: >>
: >No, I think it was just the (inverse of the) percentage that the processor
: >was not in a DIS state.
: >
: Woops, too many negatives there, it's the percentage of time that the
: processor was not in a DIS state -or- the inverse ...was in a DIS
: state.
That sounds about right.
: (There was also a LED on the L66 panel (weren't they _great_ panels!) that
: lit when the processor was DIS'd.
I'll say! I've still got various parts of the control panel from a L68
(Multics) CPU at home, including the APU scroll. Now that's what I
*call* a computer.
Edward Rice
DB> Actually I think you'll find the speedometer was essentially nothing
DB> more than an ammeter. Who told you the above?
DB>
> It was my impression (and I spent a lot of time with Honeywell
> mainframes) that it was rate-of-change of the IC that it measured. What
> would an ammeter be measuring that would tie in to system
> instructions-per-second?
>
ie> If you measured a bit set when the system entered user mode, you could
ie> do it. The movement of the meter would average out the high-frequency
ie> transitions and give you a general reading. --
However, the meter measured the MIPS on systems that were generally
multi-processor, Honeywell never having figured out how to build /fast/ ones.
(Come to think of it, I'm not sure if it showed the bootload CPU or all CPUs.
Hmmm... where is Mike Arnwine or Don Mengel?)
Deryk Barker
: ie> From: iv...@cc.usu.edu
Don was last seen working for Cray in Chippewa Falls. I've not heard
of/from him in a couple of years though.
There was one speedo per console, I *think* it measured only a single
CPU, but the engineers could hook it up to any one they wished. I;m
moderately confident that I have seen two sepearate speedos on a
multi-processor system displaying different readings.
Dave Wagner
>Dave Wagner (da...@cray.com) wrote:
>: >
>: Woops, too many negatives there, it's the percentage of time that the
>: processor was not in a DIS state -or- the inverse ...was in a DIS
>: state.
>
>That sounds about right.
>
>: (There was also a LED on the L66 panel (weren't they _great_ panels!) that
>: lit when the processor was DIS'd.
>
>I'll say! I've still got various parts of the control panel from a L68
>(Multics) CPU at home, including the APU scroll. Now that's what I
>*call* a computer.
>
>--
Yea. I'd love to buy a front panel (I wonder if they're around anywhere?)
to an L66. Just thinking about it brings back fond memories of debugging
boot code from that panel.
--
Dave Wagner "My other computer is a T3D."
da...@cray.com , uunet!cray!davew "Ask me about PWC chapters near
(612) 683-5393 near (Parents Without Camcorders)"
Dave Wagner
>Edward Rice (edwar...@his.com) wrote:
>: ie> From: iv...@cc.usu.edu
>
>: DB> Actually I think you'll find the speedometer was essentially nothing
>: DB> more than an ammeter. Who told you the above?
>: DB>
>: > It was my impression (and I spent a lot of time with Honeywell
>: > mainframes) that it was rate-of-change of the IC that it measured. What
>: > would an ammeter be measuring that would tie in to system
>: > instructions-per-second?
>: >
>: ie> If you measured a bit set when the system entered user mode, you could
>: ie> do it. The movement of the meter would average out the high-frequency
>: ie> transitions and give you a general reading. --
>
>: However, the meter measured the MIPS on systems that were generally
>: multi-processor, Honeywell never having figured out how to build /fast/ ones.
>: (Come to think of it, I'm not sure if it showed the bootload CPU or all CPUs.
>: Hmmm... where is Mike Arnwine or Don Mengel?)
>
>Don was last seen working for Cray in Chippewa Falls. I've not heard
>of/from him in a couple of years though.
>
>There was one speedo per console, I *think* it measured only a single
>CPU, but the engineers could hook it up to any one they wished. I;m
>moderately confident that I have seen two sepearate speedos on a
>multi-processor system displaying different readings.
>
Naw, the (single) console had a speedo per CPU. The little box-like thing
was about 4x6 inches on a little pedestal from the console and had a 6 or 8
columns of LEDs. One per MMU port - but the IOMs couldn't be hooked up (that
I know of). I do remember that the bottom one was actually marked DIS.
This was at least the way they looked on all our machines when I worked
in LA for Honeywell.
Tommy Usher
>The perfect add on card for your IBM compatable! The 'Throwback' (tm)
>fits in any xt card slot, and 5.24 1/2 hight bay. Provides a indicaton of
>addressing, interrupt and databus activity!
Is this for real? I missed the first post, but I have actually kicked
around an idea like this. I hadn't really thought about using a drive
bay, but that would work. Actually, I have also kicked around the idea
of building a "hacker's" computer with a front panel, and full source
of all systems software, including two versions of the OS. One would be
a very, very simple version to learn on. The second would be a full
featured version of the same system, but again, with full source. The
same approach would be applied to languages, etc.
---
. SLMR 2.1a . I am Terminator of Borg. Hasta Lassimilation, Baby!
Tommy Usher
p...@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au (Peter) writes:
>And computers on TV and in movies are always beeping and making
>'computerish' electronic noises. And I just love those computers
>with huge banks of flashing lights. It would really impress my
>friends if I actually worked on something like that!! At least
>we rarely see Hollywood computers with spinning reals these days.
Well, actually....the old mainframe in college had a rather impressive
display. Of course not one ever paid any attention to it. Granted,
the tapes didn't exactly spin like they did on TV or in the movies.
Actually, I would love to have a system with a front panel like that.
>The computers on the Enterprise are really strange. They have
>perfect voice recognition, and yet people still often type things
>in on their consoles. I suppose this is acceptable in various
>situations (eg for security) but have you noticed what they
>type on? Flat pieces of perspex!! If you have ever had to
>type on a membrane keyboard (eg Old Ataris) you'd know how
>damn annoying this is. No tactile feedback.
Maybe they have figure out how to provide tactile feedback on a flat
panel. I mean, compared to teleporting and other stuff, that would
be simple.
>Actually, the times when I have seen the crew of the Enterprise
>access the computer through security codes, they always say
>the code out loud e.g. "Computer, key access 435621...".
I always assumed that their was voiceprint recognition that was
extremely sophisticated. (Like able to detect a recording.)
>And something else that bother me about Sci Fi shows; Most of
>them use normal CRT monitors. I would have thought flat panel
>displays would be perfected in the future. (Total Recall and
>Trek are exceptions here).
I have noticed that also.
>And I really really hate it when all Aliens speak English.
Haven't you ever heard about the Universal Translator? They have done
a couple of episodes that emphasized this. One involved a race that did
not use a normal type of language, and the other they showed it slowing
figuring it out.
>Merry Chrismas.
You too. And a Happy New Year!
---
. SLMR 2.1a . IBM really means I Breaks Monthly
Jeff Lee
1) the Universal Translator also seems to handle making the aliens' mouths
look like they're speaking the English words :-), and
2) even when the aliens *were* speaking a different kind of language (I
believe the episode was called `Darmok', or something like that),
they were still using English words (rock, river, etc.)
===== Jeff Lee / jl...@smylex.uucp / jlee%smyle...@tscs.tscs.com =====
===== SCA: Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook, Trimaris Barque Herald =====
===== Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules =====
"Why would a haddock kill itself? Why am I even asking that question?"
Chris Cebelenski
: In article <7632.11...@the-matrix.com>, tommy...@the-matrix.com (Tommy Usher) writes:
: > In article <1993Dec24....@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au>,
: > p...@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au (Peter) writes:
: >
: >>And I really really hate it when all Aliens speak English.
: >
: > Haven't you ever heard about the Universal Translator? They have done
: > a couple of episodes that emphasized this. One involved a race that did
: > not use a normal type of language, and the other they showed it slowing
: > figuring it out.
: 1) the Universal Translator also seems to handle making the aliens' mouths
: look like they're speaking the English words :-), and
Yes, this always bugged me. Of course it could just be a hologram!
(uh-huh, sure)
: 2) even when the aliens *were* speaking a different kind of language (I
: believe the episode was called `Darmok', or something like that),
: they were still using English words (rock, river, etc.)
Well, Trek is pseudo-science anyway. But boy, if we could only *USE*
some of that stuff... Actually that episode is a particullary good
example, as an alien race that has such a different way of expressing
themselves almost certainly wouldn't even match ANY earth language, even
at the concept level.
: ===== Jeff Lee / jl...@smylex.uucp / jlee%smyle...@tscs.tscs.com =====
: ===== SCA: Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook, Trimaris Barque Herald =====
: ===== Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules =====
Oh, and nice to see your still out there... :-)
--
=============================================================
Chris Cebelenski c...@shell.portal.com
Science Fiction SIG Moderator c...@cup.portal.com
Portal Communications
iv...@cc.usu.edu
> In article <1993Dec24....@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au>,
>
> Haven't you ever heard about the Universal Translator?
Sure, but then how come their lips always sync up? Watching an alien that
is speaking English through the universal translator ought to be like
watching a dubbed Asian kickflick.
David Adams
> Well, Trek is pseudo-science anyway. But boy, if we could only *USE*
> some of that stuff... Actually that episode is a particullary good
> example, as an alien race that has such a different way of expressing
> themselves almost certainly wouldn't even match ANY earth language, even
> at the concept level.
I was reading somewhere that dolphins may also use just such a language.
Some dolphin researchers think that dolphins express concepts and
ideas to each other by generating facimiles of sonar echos of objects
in their environment. Sure would make it hell to translate especially
considering they can supposedly visualize sound images in true
hologram style 3d. Fascinating -- as a certain pointy eared individual
would say (in English).
Edward Rice
> There was one speedo per console, I *think* it measured only a single
> CPU, but the engineers could hook it up to any one they wished. I;m
> moderately confident that I have seen two sepearate speedos on a
> multi-processor system displaying different readings.
>
DW> Naw, the (single) console had a speedo per CPU. The little box-like
DW> thing was about 4x6 inches on a little pedestal from the console and
DW> had a 6 or 8 columns of LEDs. One per MMU port - but the IOMs
DW> couldn't be hooked up (that I know of). I do remember that the bottom
DW> one was actually marked DIS.
You're talking about MUCH later speedometers. We're referring to the GE-600
and H-6000 line of speedometers, not those nasty, new-fangled electronic
gadgets.
Real GE gauges, man. Made in the USA.
Dave Wagner
Ahh. That's where the confusion was. Sorry.
--
Dave Wagner "My other computer is a T3D."
da...@cray.com , uunet!cray!davew "Ask me about PWC chapters near
(612) 683-5393 you (Parents Without Camcorders)"
JAMES E. GALL
>Sure, but then how come their lips always sync up? Watching an alien that
>is speaking English through the universal translator ought to be like
>watching a dubbed Asian kickflick.
And who's holding the camera on those external shots of the Enterprise?
And why is every mission on a Saturday?
And why does Picard go undercover as an actor to appear on old Earth talk
shows? :)
Deryk Barker
: dbarker@turing (Deryk Barker) writes:
Ah, you're talking DPS8s right Dave? I remember those little rows of
LEDs. However, on the old 6000/6100 and Level 66/68 series the speedo
was one per console and looked like the VU meter on a tape deck or
mixing board, i.e it had a needle which zoomed around against a
totally meaningless scale. I was told on several occasions by
engineers that they could tweak it to go as high as we wished the
customer to see.
Michael Chance
>Ah, you're talking DPS8s right Dave? I remember those little rows of
>LEDs. However, on the old 6000/6100 and Level 66/68 series the speedo
>was one per console and looked like the VU meter on a tape deck or
>mixing board, i.e it had a needle which zoomed around against a
>totally meaningless scale. I was told on several occasions by
>engineers that they could tweak it to go as high as we wished the
>customer to see.
Datamation magazine ran an article about 10 years ago when Brigham
Young University finally shut down the last operational IBM Stretch
computer (a forerunner to the 360). They quoted one the the guys who
ran the thing as saying that modern computers couldn't give you the
same sense of satisfaction as being able to program the computer to
have the word "TILT" blink on and off using the maintenance lights.
--
Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields
Work: mc3...@sw1sta.sbc.com of St. Vidicon"
Play: ab...@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
mch...@nyx.cs.du.edu
Dave Wagner
>
>Ah, you're talking DPS8s right Dave? I remember those little rows of
>LEDs. However, on the old 6000/6100 and Level 66/68 series the speedo
>was one per console and looked like the VU meter on a tape deck or
>mixing board, i.e it had a needle which zoomed around against a
>totally meaningless scale. I was told on several occasions by
>engineers that they could tweak it to go as high as we wished the
>customer to see.
>
Hmm. I never saw those. We had these boxy-LED things on both DPS8 and
L66 consoles, but it was after the DPS8 was out. CP-6 could even run
on a machine composed of both DPS8 and L66 CPUs.
--
Dave Wagner "My other computer is a T3D."
da...@cray.com , uunet!cray!davew "Ask me about PWC chapters near
(612) 683-5393 you (Parents Without Camcorders)"
Deryk Barker
: dbarker@turing (Deryk Barker) writes:
: >Ah, you're talking DPS8s right Dave? I remember those little rows of
: >LEDs. However, on the old 6000/6100 and Level 66/68 series the speedo
: >was one per console and looked like the VU meter on a tape deck or
: >mixing board, i.e it had a needle which zoomed around against a
: >totally meaningless scale. I was told on several occasions by
: >engineers that they could tweak it to go as high as we wished the
: >customer to see.
: Datamation magazine ran an article about 10 years ago when Brigham
: Young University finally shut down the last operational IBM Stretch
: computer (a forerunner to the 360). They quoted one the the guys who
: ran the thing as saying that modern computers couldn't give you the
: same sense of satisfaction as being able to program the computer to
: have the word "TILT" blink on and off using the maintenance lights.
GCOS-3 (as it then was) used to display TILT on the operator console
under certain circumstances: if the periphal allocater ($PALC)
crashed I think it was.
David Breneman
:
: Hmmm. I have lots of stories about things like this, but the one
: that most closely applies goes back to when I was involved in the
: production of "Star Trek the Motion Picture" (i.e. Star Trek I).
Deletions...
:
: So that, dear friends, is why the screens on the Enterprise in "Star
: Trek the Motion Picture" look like early 1950's televisions.
So, tell us, who's responsible for the 30-some minutes of
Sulu gaping at the view screen? Is this guy amazed, or *what*?
--
David Breneman Email: da...@jaws.engineering.dgtl.com
System Administrator, Voice: 206 881-7544 Fax: 206 556-8033
Software Engineering Services
Digital Systems International, Inc. Redmond, Washington, U. S. o' A.
David Breneman
: Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs) writes:
: >
: > It seems that TV and movie computers have evolved along their own
: > path. In the '40s they had big brass dials and maybe a Jacob's
: > Ladder or two. In the '50s an oscilloscope displaying Lissajous
: > patterns was high-tech. In the '60s the all-knowing machine would
: > spit out a punch card containing the answer to anyone's question.
: > In the '70s we had spinning tape drives and Teletypes. The '80s
: > brought us sleek black panels with just a few LEDs (a style which
: > was quickly adopted by hi-fi equipment manufacturers and NeXT),
: > accompanied by CRTs with their huge ACCESS DENIED messages or
: > whatever. What will we see in the '90s? Well, maybe something
: > like Jurassic Park: "It's a Unix system!" - complete with
: > gratuitous GUIs.
:
: The "spinning tape drives" comment helped me recall the tale told to me
: by an acquaintance that worked for a large computer firm. He said that
: for election coverage, one local TV station director wanted to always be
: able to show the computer running. This required a tape drive in motion.
: His job was to program a tape controller to keep one or two drives always
: in motion, going backward and forward on the tape with the typical
: motions. That way the director could always have a camera focus on that
: tape drive for fade-ins or fade-outs. The drives used for this were not
: even connected to the main computer. This work being done in L.A., it's
: rumored that after the coverage, one of the studios purchased the system
: for their properties unit. And it appeared in several movies and TV shows.
The Tracey/Hepburn movie "Desk Set" has a classic prototypical movie
computer of the 50s, which even looks fairly plausible with the
exception of the huge bank of pattern-flashing lights in the middle -
which later made its way on to the "Seaview" control room in Voyage
to the Bottom of the Sea.
David Breneman
:
: Star Trek II (The Wrath of Khan): Remember when you were in grade school,
: they had those lame filmstrips that came with a cassette, and someone got
: to turn the knob to the next frame everytime the cassette went "bing!"?
: Those things came in binders with some hardcopy; the film cans and tapes
: themselves were held in this extruded plastic panel inside the front cover
: of the binder, that had four round holes for film cans to fit into and four
: depressions for cassettes to rest in.
: These plastic panels can be seen on the walls of the bridge, painted beige.
:
..And the turbo lifts are lined with waffle carpet pad. Totally
killed the realism for me, since I'd worked for a carpet cleaning
firm in college. Also, in "Alien", a lot of the surfaces in the
ship are covered with video tape shipping cases - the kind with the
turn-to-lock knob in the middle.
Steve Summit
> Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs) writes:
>> It seems that TV and movie computers have evolved along their own
>> path. In the '40s they had big brass dials and maybe a Jacob's
>> Ladder or two. In the '50s an oscilloscope displaying Lissajous
>> patterns was high-tech.
I particularly liked the Bond movie where the technicians
attempted to regain control of the satellite which the Bad Guy
was usurping: they were flipping knobs madly, and the Lissajous
figures figures and/or sine waves dutifully changed -- which made
sense, since the knobs they were flipping were sweep rate and
other controls on the oscilloscopes themselves.
>> In the '70s we had spinning tape drives and Teletypes...
>
> The "spinning tape drives" comment helped me recall the tale told to me
> by an acquaintance that worked for a large computer firm. He said that
> for election coverage, one local TV station director wanted to always be
> able to show the computer running. This required a tape drive in motion.
> His job was to program a tape controller to keep one or two drives always
> in motion, going backward and forward on the tape with the typical
> motions...
I heard a story (unsubstantiated, and doubtless apocryphal, but
hey, this is folklore) about a big law firm that wanted to really
wow its clients (and competitors) by installing a big, new,
million dollar VAX in a glassed-in computer room. The day it was
delivered, they complained about the lack of blinking lights, and
promptly paid an additional few tens of thousands of dollars for
a custom front panel which the savvy sales rep promised them and
which a few engineers at DEC probably had a lot of fun crufting
together.
Steve Summit
s...@eskimo.com
David Adams
>In article <BeN5ec...@netlink.nix.com>, msha...@netlink.nix.com writes:
>> Charli...@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs) writes:
>>> It seems that TV and movie computers have evolved along their own
>>> path. In the '40s they had big brass dials and maybe a Jacob's
>>> Ladder or two. In the '50s an oscilloscope displaying Lissajous
>>> patterns was high-tech.
>I particularly liked the Bond movie where the technicians
>attempted to regain control of the satellite which the Bad Guy
>was usurping: they were flipping knobs madly, and the Lissajous
>figures figures and/or sine waves dutifully changed -- which made
>sense, since the knobs they were flipping were sweep rate and
>other controls on the oscilloscopes themselves.
Back when I was still in school, I worked part-time at a Motorola
commercial radio repair center. At that time there was a lot of
sunspot activity disrupting communications, power etc. The local
T.V. station decided to send out a crew to interview my boss and
find out all about sunspots etc. After being sent to the library
to get a book about sunspots so he could pretend he knew something
about them, he told me to turn on a communications monitor and get
some sort of trace on its built-in scope so the T.V. people could
maybe use it for a lead-in to his interview.
Not being content with just a simple trace, I set it up to do a nice
slowly rotating figure 8 lissajous pattern. Well the T.V. people came and
went and the boss told everyone he knew to watch for him on T.V.
that night.
When big moment came the entire spot consisted of showing the
lissajous pattern on the screen while the announcer said something
like "local electronics experts say sunspots are causing havoc
with communications"!
Tommy Usher
Jeff Lee <jl...@smylex.UUCP> writes:
>In articlee <7632.11...@the-matrix.com>, tommy...@the-matrix.com (Tommy
>Usher) writes:
>> In article <1993Dec24....@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au>,
>> p...@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au (Peter) writes:
>>
>>>And I really really hate it when all Aliens speak English.
>>
>> Haven't you ever heard about the Universal Translator? They have done
>> a couple of episodes that emphasized this. One involved a race that did
>> not use a normal type of language, and the other they showed it slowing
>> figuring it out.
>1) the Universal Translator also seems to handle making the aliens' mouths
>look like they're speaking the English words :-), and
Well, that is just another example of Starfleet technology. In this case,
the "Appearance-of-a-Bad-Kung-Fu-Movie-Avoidance" Software in the view
screen software. Granted, it seems to work face to face also. Perhaps
the universal translator projects a holographic image that is superimposed
over the speakers face. Then again, maybe trying to explain things like
this, really is as silly as it sounds.
>2) even when the aliens *were* speaking a different kind of language (I
>believe the episode was called `Darmok', or something like that),
>they were still using English words (rock, river, etc.)
Well, I thing the idea there was that their language used a different
basis. The computer could translate the words, but it could not figure
out what they actually meant. But I was thinking of the Deep Space Nine
episode a few weeks ago.
---
. SLMR 2.1a . Computers aren't intelligent. They only think they are.
Tommy Usher
iv...@cc.usu.edu writes:
>In article <7632.11...@the-matrix.com>, tommy...@the-matrix.com (Tommy
>sher) writes:
>> In article <1993Dec24....@scammell.ecos.tne.oz.au>,
>>>And I really really hate it when all Aliens speak English.
>>
>> Haven't you ever heard about the Universal Translator?
>Sure, but then how come their lips always sync up? Watching an alien that
>is speaking English through the universal translator ought to be like
>watching a dubbed Asian kickflick.
Then you will probably appreciate the answer I gave to this in a previous
message. ;-)
---
. SLMR 2.1a . Lottery (n), A tax on people who are bad at math.
MATT MCCULLAR
I recall one episode of the new "Mission: Impossible" where the data
display for one computer supposedly printed out a detailed color
screen's worth of data. You could see the monitor, but you could
easily tell that what it displayed was matted in. Which was a good
thing, because the monitor was an old-time TRS-80 Model I monochrome
job.
Tommy Usher
GALLJE%D...@pcmail.usafa.af.mil (JAMES E. GALL) write:
>And who's holding the camera on those external shots of the Enterprise?
Worf, he likes to show how tough he really is.
>And why is every mission on a Saturday?
Ah, this is one of the innovations of the 24th Century. They have
eliminated all the rest of the week, leaving only that one day. I
mean, Saturday IS everyone's favorite day.
>And why does Picard go undercover as an actor to appear on old Earth talk
>shows? :)
Well, he IS an amateur archaeologist. Where else would he go to look
for ruins?
---
. SLMR 2.1a . OK, OK... Right after this it's back to the topic!
Scott - Maxwell
>>>
>>Haven't you ever heard about the Universal Translator?
>>
>Sure, but then how come their lips always sync up? Watching an alien that
>is speaking English through the universal translator ought to be like
>watching a dubbed Asian kickflick.
>
tadpole (Guild member) came to see the emperor.
/===============================================================\
|Scott Maxwell * Has anyone noticed that CBS anchor |
|sco...@cup.portal.com * Jim Jenson is starting to sound like |
|Amiga 1000, 2000, 1200 * WJM anchor Ted Baxter? |
|Pet, SuperPET, Vic, 64 *---------------------------------------|
|128D, 800XL, TI, //e * Good nighs and good newt - Ted Baxter |
\===============================================================/
SillyWiz
>Dune did the tranlator right near the beginning of the film when the giant
>tadpole (Guild member) came to see the emperor.
It's the way there's even a lag as the thing gets up to speed and the
conversation has holes in it where the alien & English are different lengths.
(Quite apart from the fact that it's one of the few decent bits in the entire
script.. most of the dialogue is rather formula.)
-- the SillyWiz --
-------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
The University of Warwick cares little | It is now wise to turn off your
for my opinions the rest of the time so| Macintosh.
it can't have these if it wants them. | (RESTART)
-------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
Keith Lucas ---- sill...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk , cs...@csv.warwick.ac.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lance S. Buckley
the bit where they break into the LASER facility, and Flynn hits
the LAP/RESET button on the entry panel to get them in? My watch
has one of those, I wonder if it'll do the same for me.
--
Lance S. Buckley (LSB) la...@avalon.demon.co.uk
Living on the edge of the Brentford Triangle...
Belay that knobkerry Neville, and make mine a pint of Large!
(*sniff* Can you smell creosote?)
[PGP 2.3a key available on request, and via keyserver]
Jeff Lee
Figuring out the words without knowing the context in which they're used?
Must be some pretty good software! (trying desperately to get this back
to something VAGUELY related to afc) :-)
Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner
>In article <7997.11...@the-matrix.com>, tommy...@the-matrix.com (Tommy Usher) writes:
>> In article <719-JN...@smylex.UUCP>, Jeff Lee <jl...@smylex.UUCP> writes:
>>
>>>2) even when the aliens *were* speaking a different kind of language (I
>>>believe the episode was called `Darmok', or something like that),
>>>they were still using English words (rock, river, etc.)
>>
>> Well, I thing the idea there was that their language used a different
>> basis. The computer could translate the words, but it could not figure
>> out what they actually meant.
>
>Figuring out the words without knowing the context in which they're used?
>Must be some pretty good software! (trying desperately to get this back
>to something VAGUELY related to afc) :-)
Not all that difficult, just do a direct translation to the target language.
Now, making scense of the output is the tough part.
-spc ("What happened? Why did the alien monster fire upon us?"
"All I said was 'We greet you with open arms.' It replied
'You avian belong,' turned away, cut communications, and
fired. What more can I say?")
Jeff Lee
> In article <724-JN...@smylex.UUCP> Jeff Lee <jl...@smylex.UUCP> writes:
>>In article <7997.11...@the-matrix.com>, tommy...@the-matrix.com (Tommy Usher) writes:
>>>
>>> Well, I thing the idea there was that their language used a different
>>> basis. The computer could translate the words, but it could not figure
>>> out what they actually meant.
>>
>>Figuring out the words without knowing the context in which they're used?
>>Must be some pretty good software! (trying desperately to get this back
>>to something VAGUELY related to afc) :-)
>
> Not all that difficult, just do a direct translation to the target language.
The problem I have with it is that when you're dealing with an alien race
you've never met before, you're not going to be *able* to do a direct
translation until you know what the words mean -- and you can't figure out
what the words mean until you can build some kind of contextual reference.
On Star Trek, however, it begins translating from the first word spoken.
Say you come upon an alien vessel, which transmits the phrase `blort
fleeble flarp'. It could mean `identify yourself' or `we come in peace' or
even `prepare to die'.* Yet the Trusty Olde Federation Equipment (well,
trusty until they need an easy means of endangering the vessel) is able to
magically translate it into English perfectly (and, of course, translate
English into the alien language, including words that the aliens haven't
even spoken yet -- an even neater trick, in my book).
* What you'd need, in that case, would be something like a Digital
Betazoid circuit, so as to state the blindingly obvious:
Alien: Blort fleeble flarp! (fires photon torpedoes)
Translator: I sense great hostility. Probable translation:
Prepare to die.
Paul Flinders
In article <728-JN...@smylex.UUCP> Jeff Lee <jl...@smylex.UUCP> writes:
>
>* What you'd need, in that case, would be something like a Digital
> Betazoid circuit, so as to state the blindingly obvious:
>
No - you just need a Babel Fish
--
Paul Flinders Mail: p...@delcam.co.uk
Delcam International PLC. Tel: +44 21 766 5544 Fax: +44 21 766 5511
Antonio Vasconcelos
: Hmm. I never saw those. We had these boxy-LED things on both DPS8 and
: L66 consoles, but it was after the DPS8 was out. CP-6 could even run
: on a machine composed of both DPS8 and L66 CPUs.
I just wish modern systems have that kind of stuff.
It whould be great to have a remote unix uptime metter, something that
I could carry in my pocket and that shows the uptime, number of users,
free disk, and so on... And that whould start beeping in case of a
panic, low disk or high uptime...
The only modern machines with blinkenglights that I know are the
Unisys 6000 (they have on the backside some LEDs, and 8 of them are
counting in binary) and the HP Apollo 4000 witch have an heart LED
pulsing (1 Hz, it looks).
Then, there is the IBM RS/6000 with the 3 digits LED that a user can
access with a program (forguet the name) and making it display a
flashing 888 to the joy of the sysadmin... 8-)
--
Regards,
.--------------------------------------------------. .-------------.
| Antonio Vasconcelos at The Lisbon $tock Exchange | | sysadmin & |
| "I DO NOT SPEAK FOR BVL !!!" | | perl rookie |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ASCII: va...@bvl.pt Micro$oft Mail: Antonio_V...@bvl.pt |
| SUNmail: va...@morgan.bvl.pt NeXTMail: ro...@jessica.bvl.pt |
`-_________________________________________________________________-'
X-Tagline: "Modesty died when false modesty was born." Mark Twain
Peter da Silva
Antonio Vasconcelos <va...@bvl.pt> wrote:
> The only modern machines with blinkenglights that I know are the
> Unisys 6000 (they have on the backside some LEDs, and 8 of them are
> counting in binary) and the HP Apollo 4000 witch have an heart LED
> pulsing (1 Hz, it looks).
DPT SCSI controllers have a bank of LEDS that run in cylon mode when
everythings OK.
If a single LED counts, the Amiga line of computers have a software-controlled
power light that tells you (among other things) if the audio filter's cut out
or it's been reset.
--
Peter da Silva. <pe...@sugar.neosoft.com>.
`-_-' Ja' abracas-te o teu lobo, hoje?
'U`
Looks like UNIX, Feels like UNIX, works like MVS -- IBM advertisement.
Simon Slavin
>
>If a single LED counts, the Amiga line of computers have a software-controlled
>power light
I know that it's considered better to do things in s/w than h/w
but having a software controlled power light is ridiculous !
WTH did they do that ?
Simon.
--
<"We are all standing in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.">
< - Oscar Wilde. | Help me start up alt.fan.feynman ! | sla...@psy.man.ac.uk >
Matt Simmons
: In article <2govtf$b...@sugar.NeoSoft.COM> pe...@sugar.NeoSoft.COM (Peter da Silva) writes:
: >If a single LED counts, the Amiga line of computers have a software-controlled
: >power light
: I know that it's considered better to do things in s/w than h/w
: but having a software controlled power light is ridiculous !
: WTH did they do that ?
two, it's an indicator as to whether or not the high-pass audio filter is
turned on. It's kinda pointless to have an audio filter that's not
software controllable, you can control it via software... Another fun
use for it is as a CPU monitor. One of the programs I use runs at a
hideously-low priority.. it's only purpose in life is to turn off the
power light. When something else preempts it, the power light turns
on... nice little toy, but it sucks rocks when you try to listen to a mod
with it...
Stewart Stremler
> If a single LED counts, the Amiga line of computers have a software-controlled
> power light that tells you (among other things) if the audio filter's cut out
> or it's been reset.
...the system locks, the power LED starts flashing, and there's just enough
time to shout "Oh, shit!" before the pretty Guru shows up.
And then there are those programs (generally games) that think it's cute
to simulate this before actually starting up. Arg.
(the lock-and-flash, not the shouting...)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Egocentric model of the Universe: Since the earth is circling the sun
on an orbit which is quite exactly right to keep me happy, this universe
must have been constructed for myself. QED.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stewart Stremler | stre...@ucssun1.sdsu.edu | FidoNet: 1:202/1111
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Barbagallo
>I know that it's considered better to do things in s/w than h/w
>but having a software controlled power light is ridiculous !
>WTH did they do that ?
I'm not sure why they did that either... I really don't feel like
I'm at a loss when I can't tell if the audio filter is turned on. However,
one of the most irritating things is when you get a GURU error (er.. Software
Failure in the new Amigas).. everything locks up (this is on 1.3) for a sec
and then all you see is that damn light blinking... then BOOM the whole
computer crashes. It gets VERY annoying.. (I had a bad 512kRAM expander in
my 500 and it did that every 10 mins..ugh..)
--
Ralph A. Barbagallo III --- rbar...@cs.uml.edu --- Only AMIGA makes it
Possible...
Only C O M M O D O R E stands in the way....
ZzzzzZZZzzzzzzZzzzzzzz.... .
Peter Wemm
>Peter da Silva (pe...@sugar.NeoSoft.COM) wrote:
>> If a single LED counts, the Amiga line of computers have a software-controlled
>> power light that tells you (among other things) if the audio filter's cut out
>> or it's been reset.
>...the system locks, the power LED starts flashing, and there's just enough
>time to shout "Oh, shit!" before the pretty Guru shows up.
Actually, there is a reason for it.. On the older Amigas, there is a
debugger build into the system firmware. If you have a serial
terminal connected at 9600, and send a DEL (127) character while the
light is flashing, you get dropped into "RomWack" (the debugger). It
is theoretically possible (in some cases) to fix the problem and let
the OS continue (canceling the crash...).
Newer amigas have different software that requires you to have another
amiga connected to the serial port running some fancy user interface..
>And then there are those programs (generally games) that think it's cute
>to simulate this before actually starting up. Arg.
Yes, bloody annoying, aren't they? I have seen people return demos
as a "bad disk" because of these stupid tricks, when in fact it was
the normal startup...
>(the lock-and-flash, not the shouting...)
>--
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Egocentric model of the Universe: Since the earth is circling the sun
> on an orbit which is quite exactly right to keep me happy, this universe
> must have been constructed for myself. QED.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stewart Stremler | stre...@ucssun1.sdsu.edu | FidoNet: 1:202/1111
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Peter
--
Peter Wemm <pe...@DIALix.oz.au> - NIC Handle: PW65 - The keeper of "NN"
"My computer is better than your computer" - Anonymous
(Overheard, shortly after the creation of the second computer....)
Bill Bereza
>>
>>If a single LED counts, the Amiga line of computers have a software-controlled
>>power light
>
>I know that it's considered better to do things in s/w than h/w
>but having a software controlled power light is ridiculous !
>WTH did they do that ?
>
You can't actually turn the light off via s/w, but you can make it
dimmer or brighter. You do it by turning off or on the audio
high-pass filter. The power light simply dims whenever the filter
is turned off, so technically the light is h/w controlled, but
the filter is software controlled.
--
=======///===============================================================>
/// "What for you bury me in the | Bill Bereza
\\\/// cold, cold ground?" | ber...@beech.csis.gvsu.edu
\\\/ -- Tazmanian Devil | ac...@leo.nmc.edu
Joachim Str|mbergson
>In article <1994Jan7.1...@bvl.pt>,
>Antonio Vasconcelos <va...@bvl.pt> wrote:
>> The only modern machines with blinkenglights that I know are the
>> Unisys 6000 (they have on the backside some LEDs, and 8 of them are
>> counting in binary) and the HP Apollo 4000 witch have an heart LED
>> pulsing (1 Hz, it looks).
On the backside of all SUN 3/50's and 3/60's there are 8 (I think) LED's
that move back and forth, really nifty actually.
... And on my C64 I've got several kewl LED's!
--
--------------------- FairLight - When might is right -----------------
Watc...@ludd.luth.se (130.240.160) d91...@sm.luth.se
Joachim Stroembergson Karhusvagen5:503 S-977 54 Lulea Sweden
--------------------- FairLight - When might is right -----------------
Jennifer M. Meigs
va...@bvl.pt (Antonio Vasconcelos) writes:
>I just wish modern systems have that kind of stuff.
>It whould be great to have a remote unix uptime metter, something that
>I could carry in my pocket and that shows the uptime, number of users,
>free disk, and so on... And that whould start beeping in case of a
>panic, low disk or high uptime...
to page you every <Insert desired time interval> minutes with the status.
I have one at work, but I wrote a small windows program for home that
monitors my phone and when someone leaves a message on my answering
machine, the program pages me and lets me know a message is waiting.
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jerry A. Jelinek ak...@cleveland.freenet.edu |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Guten Tag!" - Hans |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Please respond to this sig address only |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Antonio Vasconcelos
: On the backside of all SUN 3/50's and 3/60's there are 8 (I think) LED's
: that move back and forth, really nifty actually.
:
: ... And on my C64 I've got several kewl LED's!
For me, the most usefull blinkenglight whould be a watch in the
pc-alike keyboards...
--
Regards,
.--------------------------------------------------. .-------------.
| Antonio Vasconcelos at The Lisbon $tock Exchange | | sysadmin & |
| "I DO NOT SPEAK FOR BVL !!!" | | perl rookie |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ASCII: va...@bvl.pt Micro$oft Mail: Antonio_V...@bvl.pt |
| SUNmail: va...@morgan.bvl.pt NeXTMail: ro...@jessica.bvl.pt |
`-_________________________________________________________________-'
X-Tagline: Beware of a dark-haired man with a loud tie.
Matt Simmons
: You can't actually turn the light off via s/w, but you can make it
That's amazing... My 500 seems to have the strange idea that it can
infact make the power light turn off... In fact, all of the 500's
I've ever seen can do that...
zar...@cs1.bradley.edu Matt Simmons Bradley University, Peoria, IL
Teri Polo Fan, Disney Freak, Amigoid, Movie Nut, Owned by Citibank
Cool Looking Mutant Spider Thing
Dave Brown
Bill Bereza <ber...@elm.csis.gvsu.edu> wrote:
>In article <14...@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> sla...@psy.man.ac.uk (Simon Slavin) writes:
>>In article <2govtf$b...@sugar.NeoSoft.COM> pe...@sugar.NeoSoft.COM (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>>
>>>If a single LED counts, the Amiga line of computers have a software-controlled
>>>power light
>>
>>I know that it's considered better to do things in s/w than h/w
>>but having a software controlled power light is ridiculous !
>>WTH did they do that ?
>>
>
>You can't actually turn the light off via s/w, but you can make it
>dimmer or brighter. You do it by turning off or on the audio
>high-pass filter. The power light simply dims whenever the filter
>is turned off, so technically the light is h/w controlled, but
>the filter is software controlled.
Well, depends on what sort of Amiga you have, and how old it is...my
1988-vintage Amiga 500 has a power light that actually goes *off*.
It's also useful to indicate that your system has just gone
sky-high...it flashes on and off and on and off and on and off and on
again, then the computer says "Guru meditation <long, seemingly random
number>". Except in 2.0 and later, it just says "Software error
<long, seemingly random number>". Boring.
Dave "still no hard drive, just upgraded to 3MB of RAM" Brown
--
Dave Brown -- dagb...@uwaterloo.ca -- (416) 739-4888
"No vision of God and heaven ever experienced by the most exalted prophet
can, in my opinion, match the vision of the universe as seen by Newton
or Einstein" -- Isaac Asimov
Ralph Barbagallo
off...but on the newer ones (4000, 1200, etc.) it just dims. Just as
irritating when a Guru...oh sorry.. 'Software Failure' happens though.
Bill Bereza
>Bill Bereza (ber...@elm.csis.gvsu.edu) wrote:
>: You can't actually turn the light off via s/w, but you can make it
>That's amazing... My 500 seems to have the strange idea that it can
>infact make the power light turn off... In fact, all of the 500's
>I've ever seen can do that...
I have an A1200 and two 100's and none of them will turn it completely
off, just dimmer.
--
=======///===============================================================>
/// "I believe I'll buy me a graveyard | ber...@beech.csis.gvsu.edu
\\\/// of my own. I'm gonna kill everybody |_ ac...@leo.nmc.edu
\\\/ that have done me wrong." -- "Furry's Blues" Furry Lewis
Antonio Vasconcelos
: Well with a Motorola alphanumeric pager, you could write a small program
: to page you every <Insert desired time interval> minutes with the status.
: I have one at work, but I wrote a small windows program for home that
: monitors my phone and when someone leaves a message on my answering
: machine, the program pages me and lets me know a message is waiting.
Well, that could be a soulution, but it'll be expensive, imagine, a
call every minute or so... No, it should be something internal to a
site, using RF or Ultrasonics...
--
Regards,
.--------------------------------------------------. .-------------.
| Antonio Vasconcelos at The Lisbon $tock Exchange | | sysadmin & |
| "I DO NOT SPEAK FOR BVL !!!" | | perl rookie |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ASCII: va...@bvl.pt Micro$oft Mail: Antonio_V...@bvl.pt |
| SUNmail: va...@morgan.bvl.pt NeXTMail: ro...@jessica.bvl.pt |
`-_________________________________________________________________-'
X-Tagline: Love & scandal are coffee's best sweeteners
Scott - Maxwell
d
>>power light
>
>I know that it's considered better to do things in s/w than h/w
>but having a software controlled power light is ridiculous !
>WTH did they do that ?
>
way to add an audio filter. The circuit for the LED and the filter are the
same. Dim light means filter on. Bright light means filter off. It's quite
nice actually.
>Simon.
><"We are all standing in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
>
>< - Oscar Wilde. | Help me start up alt.fan.feynman ! | sla...@psy.man.ac.uk
>
/===============================================================\
|Scott Maxwell * I was almost cut off in traffic by |
|sco...@cup.portal.com * Lorena Bobbitt. |
|Amiga 1000, 2000, 1200 * Senate hearing finds King Missile is |
|Pet, SuperPET, Vic, 64 * responsible for Bobbitt's Detachable |
|128D, 800XL, TI, //e * Penis. *Acquit Lorena!* |
\===============================================================/
Scott - Maxwell
e
>d
>> power light that tells you (among other things) if the audio filter's cut ou
t
>> or it's been reset.
>
>...the system locks, the power LED starts flashing, and there's just enough
>time to shout "Oh, shit!" before the pretty Guru shows up.
>
>And then there are those programs (generally games) that think it's cute
>to simulate this before actually starting up. Arg.
>
I have a little program that does this. It's for those newbie Amigans who
don't know about the Insert Kickstart hand. It acts like a guru and throws
the picture up for a few seconds. It also plays the nifty little kicktune.
> Stewart Stremler | stre...@ucssun1.sdsu.edu | FidoNet: 1:202/1111
/===============================================================\
Scott - Maxwell
>: You can't actually turn the light off via s/w, but you can make it
>That's amazing... My 500 seems to have the strange idea that it can
>infact make the power light turn off... In fact, all of the 500's
>I've ever seen can do that...
>
have seen dim the LED.
> zar...@cs1.bradley.edu Matt Simmons Bradley University, Peoria, IL
/===============================================================\
Ethan Dicks
: >>If a single LED counts, the Amiga line of computers have a software-controlle
: d
: >>power light
: >
: >I know that it's considered better to do things in s/w than h/w
: >but having a software controlled power light is ridiculous !
: >WTH did they do that ?
: >
: It flashes to let you know the system is going down. It was also the easiest
: way to add an audio filter. The circuit for the LED and the filter are the
: same. Dim light means filter on. Bright light means filter off. It's quite
: nice actually.
Also, someone out there, years and years ago, wrote a library to flash
diagnostic message in morse code on the power light for debugging deep kernel
routines that shouldn't/couldn't use the screen or a serial port. It beats
bit-banging the second mouse port, I guess.
BTW, on the A1000 (the oldest model - Sept. 1985), there is no s/w controllable
audio filter. The idea came later and the least incompatible hack was to
piggyback the audio filter cutoff control to the already existing power light
circuit. It is such a compatible hack that it's a trivial matter to reverse-
install the audio filter cutoff control to an A1000.
-ethan
Bart Peters
> off...but on the newer ones (4000, 1200, etc.) it just dims. Just as
> irritating when a Guru...oh sorry.. 'Software Failure' happens though.
That's absolutely right. My Amiga 500, which I bought in 1990, had a powerled
that would just dim. As this was hardly visible, I openend the case and
located the power-led circuit. Just removing one resistor, et voila, now the
led would turn completely off (yes, and back on again). I did this on the
A2000 too, which I bought 1.5 years later.... It still works fine.
Bart 'of course I also bypassed the filter-circuit, and the fan makes
a hell of a noise so there really is no need for the LED
at all' Peters