node names

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

repost from "node name" thread in another fora:

an old post with list of machines at various institutions from summer of
1981
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#61

I had been blamed for online computer conferencing on the internal
network in the late 70s and early 80s. Then as Jim Gray was leaving San
Jose Research for Tandem Oct 1980, he wrote "MIP ENVY" (commenting about
corporate resources for internal users compared to other institutions)
... he was also palming off some number of things on me.

After he left, I would periodically go by and visit Jim at Tandem and
write up trip report and distribute. Some of it would resonate with
people and be redistribute and increasing number of people would send me
comments ... which I would in turn add to growing distribution
list. This collection of comments came to be known as "Tandem Memos"
... which resulted in some amount of turmoil inside the corporation and
various reactions (folklore is that when the executive committee was
told about online computer conferencing and the internal network, 5of6
wanted to fire me).

In any case, one of the results is the summer of 1981, there were
sponsored visits to a number of institutions to gather information
regarding the computing resources at those institutions. The post from
2001 has small bit from the resulting report about other institutions.


... my 20Sept1980 MIP ENVY version
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#email800920
in this post
http:/www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#17 Jim Gray is Missing

and both 20Sept1980 and 24Sept1980 version can be found here in
Publications section:
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/gray/

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 26, 10:08 am, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
> repost from "node name" thread in another fora:

Forum is the singular; fora is *plural*.

John Savard

[Charlie Gibbs]

In article
<dfa17ac9-0194-417a...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

Thank you for that datum. :-)

--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 27, 1:30 pm, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <dfa17ac9-0194-417a-8a21-263c141b9...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

>
> jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
> > On Oct 26, 10:08 am, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
>
> >> repost from "node name" thread in another fora:
>
> > Forum is the singular; fora is *plural*.
>
> Thank you for that datum.  :-)

You're welcome. Of course, also note that in English, "data" is
treated not as a normal plural noun, but as a *substance name*, like
water or fish. Over the objections of Latin purists.

John Savard

[Charlie Gibbs]

In article
<35d6be63-c4b0-4688...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

That's OK, I still bristle when I see people saying "an e-mail".
"E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
that this too should be inherited.

[Rod Speed]

"Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message
news:1143.719T1...@kltpzyxm.invalid...

> In article
> <35d6be63-c4b0-4688...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> jsa...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
>
>> On Oct 27, 1:30 pm, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <dfa17ac9-0194-417a-8a21-263c141b9...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
>>> > On Oct 26, 10:08 am, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> repost from "node name" thread in another fora:
>>>>
>>>>> Forum is the singular; fora is *plural*.
>>>
>>> Thank you for that datum. :-)
>>
>> You're welcome. Of course, also note that in English, "data" is
>> treated not as a normal plural noun, but as a *substance name*,
>> like water or fish. Over the objections of Latin purists.
>
> That's OK, I still bristle when I see people saying "an e-mail".
> "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
> that this too should be inherited.

Really something to cream your jeans about, eh ?

[Andrew Swallow]

On 28/10/2012 20:20, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> In article
> <35d6be63-c4b0-4688...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> jsa...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
>
>> On Oct 27, 1:30 pm, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <dfa17ac9-0194-417a-8a21-263c141b9...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
>>>> On Oct 26, 10:08 am, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> repost from "node name" thread in another fora:
>>>>
>>>>> Forum is the singular; fora is *plural*.
>>>
>>> Thank you for that datum. :-)
>>
>> You're welcome. Of course, also note that in English, "data" is
>> treated not as a normal plural noun, but as a *substance name*,
>> like water or fish. Over the objections of Latin purists.
>
> That's OK, I still bristle when I see people saying "an e-mail".
> "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
> that this too should be inherited.
>

Mailbag takes the plural - 5 mailbags were delivered containing many
letters.

Andrew Swallow

[jmfbahciv]

Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> In article
> <35d6be63-c4b0-4688...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> jsa...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
>
>> On Oct 27, 1:30 pm, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <dfa17ac9-0194-417a-8a21-263c141b9...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
>>> > On Oct 26, 10:08 am, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> repost from "node name" thread in another fora:
>>>>
>>>>> Forum is the singular; fora is *plural*.
>>>
>>> Thank you for that datum.  :-)
>>
>> You're welcome. Of course, also note that in English, "data" is
>> treated not as a normal plural noun, but as a *substance name*,
>> like water or fish. Over the objections of Latin purists.
>
> That's OK, I still bristle when I see people saying "an e-mail".

I've written that.

> "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
> that this too should be inherited.
>

So how do you write "an e-mail account"? Using "a" doesn't sound
right.

/BAH

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 29 Oct 2012 13:27:05 GMT

jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> > In article

> > "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
> > that this too should be inherited.
> >
> So how do you write "an e-mail account"? Using "a" doesn't sound
> right.

An e-mail account is fine just as is "a mailbox", the theory here
is that "an e-mail" is as wrong as "a mail" for a single letter. Strangely
"an email" doesn't sound wrong to me, nor does "some mail" but "a mail"
does.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[jmfbahciv]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 29 Oct 2012 13:27:05 GMT
> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> > In article
>
>> > "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
>> > that this too should be inherited.
>> >
>> So how do you write "an e-mail account"? Using "a" doesn't sound
>> right.
>
> An e-mail account is fine just as is "a mailbox", the theory here
> is that "an e-mail" is as wrong as "a mail" for a single letter. Strangely
> "an email" doesn't sound wrong to me, nor does "some mail" but "a mail"
> does.
>

Yea, I agree. How would you write about a single piece of e-mail? I think
people use "an email" to refer to one. It's not a post as in newsgroups.

/BAH

[Charles Richmond]

"Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message
news:1143.719T1...@kltpzyxm.invalid...

> In article
> <35d6be63-c4b0-4688...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> jsa...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
>
>> On Oct 27, 1:30 pm, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <dfa17ac9-0194-417a-8a21-263c141b9...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc) writes:
>>> > On Oct 26, 10:08 am, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> repost from "node name" thread in another fora:
>>>>
>>>>> Forum is the singular; fora is *plural*.
>>>
>>> Thank you for that datum. :-)
>>
>> You're welcome. Of course, also note that in English, "data" is
>> treated not as a normal plural noun, but as a *substance name*,
>> like water or fish. Over the objections of Latin purists.
>
> That's OK, I still bristle when I see people saying "an e-mail".
> "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
> that this too should be inherited.
>

Charlie, so you would have us say "a piece of e-mail", just as we would say
"a piece of mail"??? That sounds strange to me. Things do *not* always
transfer in "whole cloth" mode. For example, ISTM that the plural of mouse
(as it relates to computers) is mouses, and *not* mice.

--

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:02:39 -0500
"Charles Richmond" <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

> "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message

> > That's OK, I still bristle when I see people saying "an e-mail".
> > "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
> > that this too should be inherited.
> >
>
> Charlie, so you would have us say "a piece of e-mail", just as we would
> say "a piece of mail"??? That sounds strange to me.

It does, as does "an e-letter" which would make for a more complete
carry over.

> Things do *not*
> always transfer in "whole cloth" mode. For example, ISTM that the plural
> of mouse (as it relates to computers) is mouses, and *not* mice.

Really ? I've always called them mice (when being polite anyway).

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 30 Oct 2012 13:55:55 GMT

Yes, I tend to use phrases like "I've sent you an email ..." which
is similar to "I've sent you a letter ...".

[Charlie Gibbs]

In article <k6ommb$g3r$1...@dont-email.me>, nume...@aquaporin4.com

(Charles Richmond) writes:

> Charlie, so you would have us say "a piece of e-mail", just as we
> would say "a piece of mail"??? That sounds strange to me. Things
> do *not* always transfer in "whole cloth" mode. For example, ISTM
> that the plural of mouse (as it relates to computers) is mouses,
> and *not* mice.

Why? I know that English is an irrational language, but having
usage rules change based solely on context is... well, let's just
say that I've worked with computer systems that were designed
that way, and I didn't enjoy it.

[Rod Speed]

"Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message

news:858.721T14...@kltpzyxm.invalid...

> In article <k6ommb$g3r$1...@dont-email.me>, nume...@aquaporin4.com
> (Charles Richmond) writes:
>
>> Charlie, so you would have us say "a piece of e-mail", just as we
>> would say "a piece of mail"??? That sounds strange to me. Things
>> do *not* always transfer in "whole cloth" mode. For example, ISTM
>> that the plural of mouse (as it relates to computers) is mouses,
>> and *not* mice.
>
> Why? I know that English is an irrational language, but having
> usage rules change based solely on context is... well, let's just
> say that I've worked with computer systems that were designed
> that way, and I didn't enjoy it.

Whether you enjoy it or not is irrelevant to how the language works.

[Rod Speed]

jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote

>> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote
>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote

>>>> "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun;
>>>> I feel that this too should be inherited.

More fool you. English doesn’t work like that.

>>> So how do you write "an e-mail account"?
>>> Using "a" doesn't sound right.

>> An e-mail account is fine just as is "a mailbox", the theory
>> here is that "an e-mail" is as wrong as "a mail" for a single
>> letter. Strangely "an email" doesn't sound wrong to me,
>> nor does "some mail" but "a mail" does.

> Yea, I agree. How would you write about a single piece of e-mail?
> I think people use "an email" to refer to one.

Yep, they aren't actually stupid enough to be obsessed with the
fact that the word mail is a collective noun and carry on regardless.

[Uncle Steve]

E-mail is what is known as a neologism, and everyone knows that the
proper English term is "electronic mail" -- and is obviously much too
long for such a frequently used term.


Regards,

Uncle Steve

--
My people and I have come to an agreement that satisfies us both.
They are to say what they please, and I am to do what I please.
- Frederick the Great, c. 1770

[Walter Bushell]

In article <k6ommb$g3r$1...@dont-email.me>,

Not micen?

--
This space unintentionally left blank.

[Rod Speed]

Uncle Steve <stev...@gmail.com> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote
>> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote
>>>> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote
>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote

>>>>>> "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun;
>>>>>> I feel that this too should be inherited.

>> More fool you. English doesn't work like that.

>>>>> So how do you write "an e-mail account"?
>>>>> Using "a" doesn't sound right.

>>>> An e-mail account is fine just as is "a mailbox", the theory
>>>> here is that "an e-mail" is as wrong as "a mail" for a single
>>>> letter. Strangely "an email" doesn't sound wrong to me,
>>>> nor does "some mail" but "a mail" does.

>>> Yea, I agree. How would you write about a single piece of e-mail?
>>> I think people use "an email" to refer to one.

>> Yep, they aren't actually stupid enough to be obsessed with the
>> fact that the word mail is a collective noun and carry on regardless.

>>> It's not a post as in newsgroups.

> E-mail is what is known as a neologism,

Wrong, as always. It has in fact been accepted into mainstream usage now.

> and everyone knows that the proper English term is "electronic mail"

Try telling that to those who write the Oxford dictionary.

Don't be TOO surprised when they just laugh in your stupid
pig ignorant face, just like everyone else always does.

> -- and is obviously much too long for such a frequently used term.

Which might just be why almost no one uses that term and they use email
instead, fuckwit.

[Peter Flass]

Or meeces?

--
Pete

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 29, 7:27 am, jmfbahciv <See.ab...@aol.com> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> > In article

> > <35d6be63-c4b0-4688-83e8-0e76bd3e4...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

> > "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
> > that this too should be inherited.
>
> So how do you write "an e-mail account"?  Using "a" doesn't sound
> right.

Huh? The use of "a" or "an" depends only on whether the word following
starts with a vowel.

If E-mail were a collective noun, that wouldn't preclude the use of an
indefinite article in this case, since here E-mail is acting as an
adjective, and the indefinite article applies to the following word.

Like "a water bill"; you don't say "a water", but since you do say "a
bill", it's OK. That's what he was talking about.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 30, 8:49 am, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 30 Oct 2012 13:55:55 GMT

> jmfbahciv <See.ab...@aol.com> wrote:

> > Yea, I agree.  How would you write about a single piece of e-mail?  I
> > think people use "an email" to refer to one.  It's not a post as in
> > newsgroups.
>
>         Yes, I tend to use phrases like "I've sent you an email ..." which
> is similar to "I've sent you a letter ...".

I guess you've just come up with the way to satisfy the purists. I
opened up my E-mail, and saw that just one new E-letter had arrived.

John Savard

[Charles Richmond]

"Quadibloc" <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:509180d2-6878-472f...@k20g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...

On Oct 29, 7:27 am, jmfbahciv <See.ab...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <35d6be63-c4b0-4688-83e8-0e76bd3e4...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
> > "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
> > that this too should be inherited.
>>
>> So how do you write "an e-mail account"? Using "a" doesn't sound
>> right.
>
>Huh? The use of "a" or "an" depends only on whether the word following
>starts with a vowel.
>

That's the simplified rule we all learned in elementary school. But words
beginning with *certain* vowel sounds... still take "a" instead of "an". A
case in point is "utility"... you would say "a utility" and *not* "an
utility". ISTM the whole matter is what makes the words flow better...
makes them easier to say.

[Gerard Schildberger]

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 11:45:47 PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Oct 29, 7:27 am, jmfbahciv <See.ab...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <35d6be63-c4b0-4688-83e8-0e76bd3e4...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>>> "E-mail" evolved from "mail", which is a collective noun; I feel
>>> that this too should be inherited.

>> So how do you write "an e-mail account"?  Using "a" doesn't sound
>> right.

> Huh? The use of "a" or "an" depends only on whether the word following
> starts with a vowel.

Not quite, it depends whether the word following starts with a
--- vowel sound ---.
Wait an hour (or maybe a half-hour). _______________ Gerard Schildberger

[Stan Barr]

and, of course, hotel and hour get "an" as they're from the French
where the H is silent.

--
Cheers,
Stan Barr plan.b .at. dsl .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!

[Shmuel Metz]

In <k70ml7$3bt$1...@dont-email.me>, on 11/02/2012

at 09:51 AM, "Charles Richmond" <nume...@aquaporin4.com> said:

>That's the simplified rule we all learned in elementary school. But
>words beginning with *certain* vowel sounds... still take "a"
>instead of "an". A case in point is "utility"

No - it's pronounced yewtility, so "a" is appropriate. Pronunciation
trumps spelling when deciding between "a" and "an".

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org

[Joy Beeson]

re "a" and "an":

The rule is simple: English-speaking people can't pronounce two
vowels in succession. So we stick an "n" in to separate them.

Some words are spelled with vowels and pronounced with consonants:
they don't need the "n" sound, so it's "I have a use for it". (If you
pronounced "use" as "oos", you would have an oos for "an".)

Some words are spelled with consonants and pronounced with vowels;
these require the "n" sound, so it's "That's impossible. It would
take an hour."


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

[Rod Speed]

Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote

> re "a" and "an":

> The rule is simple:

Fraid not. Very little of english ever is with the gory detail.

> English-speaking people can't pronounce two vowels
> in succession. So we stick an "n" in to separate them.

Doesn't explain the exceptions.

> Some words are spelled with vowels and pronounced
> with consonants: they don't need the "n" sound,

Doesn't explain all the exceptions.

> so it's "I have a use for it". (If you pronounced
> "use" as "oos", you would have an oos for "an".)

> Some words are spelled with consonants and pronounced with
> vowels; these require the "n" sound, so it's "That's impossible.
> It would take an hour."

Still doesn't explain all the exceptions.

[Charles Richmond]

"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in
message news:5095a5ba$12$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...

> In <k70ml7$3bt$1...@dont-email.me>, on 11/02/2012
> at 09:51 AM, "Charles Richmond" <nume...@aquaporin4.com> said:
>
>>That's the simplified rule we all learned in elementary school. But
>>words beginning with *certain* vowel sounds... still take "a"
>>instead of "an". A case in point is "utility"
>
> No - it's pronounced yewtility, so "a" is appropriate. Pronunciation
> trumps spelling when deciding between "a" and "an".
>

That's what I said, Shmeul... use "a" instead of "an". Re-read my OP.

[Rich Alderson]

<Doffing my usual computer museum hat, donning instead my historical
linguist chapeau>

Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> writes:

> re "a" and "an":

> The rule is simple: English-speaking people can't pronounce two
> vowels in succession. So we stick an "n" in to separate them.

Of course, historically speaking it's the other way around. The indefinite
article "an" derives from an unaccented form of the numeral "one" (prior to
the development of the excrescent [w] sound on the number word--cf. the Scots
number word "ane"), with subsequent loss of the nasal before consonants.

The apparent development, and current modern complexity, is due to dialect
mixture, social (due to literacy) as well as geographical.

--
Rich Alderson ne...@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...

[Shmuel Metz]

In <k780cl$3bg$1...@dont-email.me>, on 11/05/2012
at 03:20 AM, "Charles Richmond" <nume...@aquaporin4.com> said:

>That's what I said, Shmeul

1. No, you said "vowel sounds"; "utility" is proounced with a
leading consonant.

2. That's Shmuel.

[Stan Dandy Liver]

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 02:19:06 -0000, Joy Beeson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> re "a" and "an":
>
> The rule is simple: English-speaking people can't pronounce two
> vowels in succession. So we stick an "n" in to separate them.

Oi! Ah forget it, it'll take an eon to persuade you, my aorta won't last
that long.

> Some words are spelled with vowels and pronounced with consonants:
> they don't need the "n" sound, so it's "I have a use for it". (If you
> pronounced "use" as "oos", you would have an oos for "an".)
>
> Some words are spelled with consonants and pronounced with vowels;
> these require the "n" sound, so it's "That's impossible. It would
> take an hour."
>
>


--

[dash dash space newline 4line sig]

Money/Life question

[Shmuel Metz]

In <k70ml7$3bt$1...@dont-email.me>, on 11/02/2012

at 09:51 AM, "Charles Richmond" <nume...@aquaporin4.com> said:

>That's the simplified rule we all learned in elementary school. But
>words beginning with *certain* vowel sounds... still take "a"
>instead of "an". A case in point is "utility"

It's pronounced yewtility; it does not start with a vowel sound, even
though it is spelled beginning with a vowel.