Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Re: a clock in it, was Re: Interesting News Article
28 views
Skip to first unread message
Howard Brazee
Jun 26, 2012, 11:23:13 AM6/26/12
to
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:47:45 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>
>There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for as long.
They actually measured it.
Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>
>There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for as long.
They actually measured it.
Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Rod Speed
Jun 26, 2012, 2:27:38 PM6/26/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for as
>> long.
> They actually measured it.
Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for as
>> long.
> They actually measured it.
that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
Howard Brazee
Jun 26, 2012, 5:59:07 PM6/26/12
to
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 04:27:38 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>
>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for as
>>> long.
>
>> They actually measured it.
>
>Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>
>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for as
>>> long.
>
>> They actually measured it.
>
>Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>
>But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
Still, actual measurement trumps theory. Otherwise the theory is
Religion (as with most political discussions).
Rod Speed
Jun 26, 2012, 6:31:35 PM6/26/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for as
>>>> long.
>>> They actually measured it.
>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
But it isnt possible to measure what would have happened without daylight
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for as
>>>> long.
>>> They actually measured it.
>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
saving.
>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
> Unless they're watching TV, and using the air conditioner.
> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
> Otherwise the theory is Religion
> (as with most political discussions).
Robert Bannister
Jun 26, 2012, 8:44:32 PM6/26/12
to
usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days. If the
adults don't turn them on, the kids do and they're putting them on for
an extra hour each day. There aren't many places where people use their
air-conditioners in the early morning.
There is no power saving with daylight saving and recent studies show
there is usually a loss. In the end, it boils down to a conflict of
interest between morning and evening people.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 26, 2012, 8:53:32 PM6/26/12
to
On 27/06/12 6:31 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>
>>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>>> as long.
>
>>>> They actually measured it.
>
>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>
>> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
>
> But it isnt possible to measure what would have happened without
> daylight saving.
>
>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>
>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>
>> Unless they're watching TV, and using the air conditioner.
>
> You don't do either more when there is daylight saving.
Not TV perhaps if the children or wife watches morning TV, but the
> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>
>>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>>> as long.
>
>>>> They actually measured it.
>
>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>
>> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
>
> But it isnt possible to measure what would have happened without
> daylight saving.
>
>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>
>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>
>> Unless they're watching TV, and using the air conditioner.
>
> You don't do either more when there is daylight saving.
air-conditioning is definitely on longer because it is rarely if ever
used in the early morning. Coming home earlier (by sun time), people are
more likely to turn the air-con on even on a mild day.
>
>> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
>
> Not even possible to measure the power used with
> no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
against it, had several trials of daylight saving. The last one was only
a few years ago. Thank Lady Luck, we have managed to scuttle the idea
again. Of course, it is a perennial favourite with governments who are
in trouble - bring up daylight saving, cause a furore, and everyone
forgets about the other bad things for a while.
--
Robert Bannister
Howard Brazee
Jun 26, 2012, 10:48:24 PM6/26/12
to
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:31:35 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> They actually measured it.
>
>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>
>> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
>
>But it isnt possible to measure what would have happened without daylight
>saving.
Unless places tried both. Which they did.
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> They actually measured it.
>
>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>
>> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
>
>But it isnt possible to measure what would have happened without daylight
>saving.
>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>
>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>
>> Unless they're watching TV, and using the air conditioner.
>
>You don't do either more when there is daylight saving.
>
>> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
>
>Not even possible to measure the power used with
>no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
>> Otherwise the theory is Religion
>
>Not with this situation it isnt.
>
>> (as with most political discussions).
>
>This isnt a political discussion.
Rod Speed
Jun 26, 2012, 11:20:43 PM6/26/12
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
> which most people have these days. If the adults
> don't turn them on, the kids do and they're putting
> them on for an extra hour each day.
I'm not so sure about that. A surprising number
appear to have them on 24/7 in the hottest weather.
Certainly if you turn the aircon off when at work/school,
its likely to have an hour more of hotter time of the day,
but that not the entire power of the aircon involved.
> There aren't many places where people use
> their air-conditioners in the early morning.
Plenty do here.
> There is no power saving with daylight saving
That's very arguable.
> and recent studies show there is usually a loss.
I'm not convinced that its actually possible to 'study' rigorously.
> In the end, it boils down to a conflict of interest
> between morning and evening people.
And FAR more do stuff in the summer evenings than
in the summer mornings with no daylight saving.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>> There must be some, if only because
>>>> the lights don't have to on for as long.
>>> They actually measured it.
>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal
> compared with the usage by air-conditioners,
Yes.
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>> There must be some, if only because
>>>> the lights don't have to on for as long.
>>> They actually measured it.
>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal
> compared with the usage by air-conditioners,
> which most people have these days. If the adults
> don't turn them on, the kids do and they're putting
> them on for an extra hour each day.
appear to have them on 24/7 in the hottest weather.
Certainly if you turn the aircon off when at work/school,
its likely to have an hour more of hotter time of the day,
but that not the entire power of the aircon involved.
> There aren't many places where people use
> their air-conditioners in the early morning.
> There is no power saving with daylight saving
> and recent studies show there is usually a loss.
> In the end, it boils down to a conflict of interest
> between morning and evening people.
in the summer mornings with no daylight saving.
Rod Speed
Jun 26, 2012, 11:29:08 PM6/26/12
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
And plenty do have it on when they go to bed and don't
bother to get up to turn it off in the middle of the night,
they just let the thermostat take care of the problem.
Certainly quite a few turn it off when they go out to
work and school, but that just affects the outside temp
seen for one hour with daylight saving if they have it
on in the morning before they leave for the day. And
plenty do, I see that when I do the garage/yard sale
run in the summer, normally starting at 6am.
> Coming home earlier (by sun time), people are more
> likely to turn the air-con on even on a mild day.
I'd want some evidence for that particular claim.
>>> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
>> Not even possible to measure the power used with
>> no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
> Not true.
Fraid so.
> Here in Western Australia we have, despite numerous
> referenda against it, had several trials of daylight saving.
Yes, but that's very unusual indeed and its difficult
to separate out the effect of weather on total power
consumption even with your trials.
> The last one was only a few years ago. Thank Lady Luck,
> we have managed to scuttle the idea again. Of course, it
> is a perennial favourite with governments who are in trouble
> - bring up daylight saving, cause a furore, and everyone
> forgets about the other bad things for a while.
Doesn't explain why trials are so rare elsewhere.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>>>> There must be some, if only because
>>>>>> the lights don't have to on for as long.
>>>>> They actually measured it.
>>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
>> But it isnt possible to measure what would
>> have happened without daylight saving.
>>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>>> Unless they're watching TV, and using the air conditioner.
>> You don't do either more when there is daylight saving.
> Not TV perhaps if the children or wife watches morning
> TV, but the air-conditioning is definitely on longer
> because it is rarely if ever used in the early morning.
That's not true here, but we can get 10 days over 100F in a row.
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>>>> There must be some, if only because
>>>>>> the lights don't have to on for as long.
>>>>> They actually measured it.
>>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
>> But it isnt possible to measure what would
>> have happened without daylight saving.
>>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>>> Unless they're watching TV, and using the air conditioner.
>> You don't do either more when there is daylight saving.
> Not TV perhaps if the children or wife watches morning
> TV, but the air-conditioning is definitely on longer
> because it is rarely if ever used in the early morning.
And plenty do have it on when they go to bed and don't
bother to get up to turn it off in the middle of the night,
they just let the thermostat take care of the problem.
Certainly quite a few turn it off when they go out to
work and school, but that just affects the outside temp
seen for one hour with daylight saving if they have it
on in the morning before they leave for the day. And
plenty do, I see that when I do the garage/yard sale
run in the summer, normally starting at 6am.
> Coming home earlier (by sun time), people are more
> likely to turn the air-con on even on a mild day.
>>> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
>> Not even possible to measure the power used with
>> no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
> Not true.
> Here in Western Australia we have, despite numerous
> referenda against it, had several trials of daylight saving.
to separate out the effect of weather on total power
consumption even with your trials.
> The last one was only a few years ago. Thank Lady Luck,
> we have managed to scuttle the idea again. Of course, it
> is a perennial favourite with governments who are in trouble
> - bring up daylight saving, cause a furore, and everyone
> forgets about the other bad things for a while.
Rod Speed
Jun 26, 2012, 11:40:54 PM6/26/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
its very difficult to separate out the variation in
total power demand due to daylight saving from
that caused by variations in the weather.
>>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>>> Unless they're watching TV, and using the air conditioner.
>> You don't do either more when there is daylight saving.
>>> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
>> Not even possible to measure the power used with
>> no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
> Some places tried DLT for a while and switched, others didn't.
But it isnt possible to separate out the effect
of weather on total power demand, particularly
now with airconditioning much more common
than it was when the trials happened.
>>> Otherwise the theory is Religion
>> Not with this situation it isnt.
>>> (as with most political discussions).
>> This isnt a political discussion.
> I'm not so sure it isn't.
Only in the sense that its obviously
politicians that usually decide on that.
> Rod Speed<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> They actually measured it.
>>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
>> But it isnt possible to measure what would
>> have happened without daylight saving.
> Unless places tried both. Which they did.
Fuck all did, and even with the places that did,
>>>>> They actually measured it.
>>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>> They measure power use. Which is very much possible.
>> But it isnt possible to measure what would
>> have happened without daylight saving.
> Unless places tried both. Which they did.
its very difficult to separate out the variation in
total power demand due to daylight saving from
that caused by variations in the weather.
>>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>>> Unless they're watching TV, and using the air conditioner.
>> You don't do either more when there is daylight saving.
>>> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
>> Not even possible to measure the power used with
>> no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
> Some places tried DLT for a while and switched, others didn't.
of weather on total power demand, particularly
now with airconditioning much more common
than it was when the trials happened.
>>> Otherwise the theory is Religion
>> Not with this situation it isnt.
>>> (as with most political discussions).
>> This isnt a political discussion.
> I'm not so sure it isn't.
politicians that usually decide on that.
Andy Leighton
Jun 27, 2012, 4:54:37 AM6/27/12
to
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:44:32 +0800,
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> On 27/06/12 2:27 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>
>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>> as long.
>>
>>> They actually measured it.
>>
>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>
>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>
>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>
> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal compared with the
> usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days.
Well maybe in your country which is quite a bit hotter than where I
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> On 27/06/12 2:27 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>
>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>> as long.
>>
>>> They actually measured it.
>>
>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>
>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>
>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>
> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal compared with the
> usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days.
am, but domestic air-conditioners are still in a very small minority
where I am.
--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
Nick Spalding
Jun 27, 2012, 6:26:06 AM6/27/12
to
Andy Leighton wrote, in <slrnjuliid...@azaal.plus.com>
on Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:54:37 -0500:
>On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:44:32 +0800,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> On 27/06/12 2:27 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>
>>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>>> as long.
>>>
>>>> They actually measured it.
>>>
>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>>
>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>>
>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>>
>> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal compared with the
>> usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days.
>
>Well maybe in your country which is quite a bit hotter than where I
>am, but domestic air-conditioners are still in a very small minority
>where I am.
Nor here in Ireland, indeed I have never seen one or heard of anyone
with one.
--
Nick Spalding
on Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:54:37 -0500:
>On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:44:32 +0800,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> On 27/06/12 2:27 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>
>>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>>> as long.
>>>
>>>> They actually measured it.
>>>
>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>>
>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>>
>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>>
>> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal compared with the
>> usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days.
>
>Well maybe in your country which is quite a bit hotter than where I
>am, but domestic air-conditioners are still in a very small minority
>where I am.
with one.
--
Nick Spalding
Walter Bushell
Jun 27, 2012, 9:13:57 AM6/27/12
to
In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
--
This space unintentionally left blank.
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> There aren't many places where people use their
> air-conditioners in the early morning.
Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> There aren't many places where people use their
> air-conditioners in the early morning.
and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
--
This space unintentionally left blank.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Jun 27, 2012, 10:00:33 AM6/27/12
to
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:26:06 +0100
Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie> wrote:
> Nor here in Ireland, indeed I have never seen one or heard of anyone
> with one.
I have one, a portable device that eats 3KW[13A] and blows hot wet
Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie> wrote:
> Nor here in Ireland, indeed I have never seen one or heard of anyone
> with one.
air out of one orifice and cold dry air out of another. I didn't buy it here
and I haven't used it since I came back with it but I have seen similar
devices on sale here so I presume someone is buying them.
I have yet to see any residential building with built in air
conditioning here though.
[13A] I was in a flat with electricity included in the rent when I bought
it.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Joe Pfeiffer
Jun 27, 2012, 10:44:10 AM6/27/12
to
Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
> In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> There aren't many places where people use their
>> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>
> Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
> temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
Here in the land of the swamp coolers mine is still fighting to bring
> In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> There aren't many places where people use their
>> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>
> Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
> temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
the inside temperature back down until some time around 3 or 4, and
doesn't start back up again until late morning.
Walter Bushell
Jun 27, 2012, 11:25:22 AM6/27/12
to
In article <1blij82...@pfeifferfamily.net>,
Why called swamp coolers, they definitely don't work in a swamp, like
Washington DC.
A lot depends on the abode. If a flat roofed the temperature profile
will be quite different.
And is that 3 or 4 AM or PM?
Washington DC.
A lot depends on the abode. If a flat roofed the temperature profile
will be quite different.
And is that 3 or 4 AM or PM?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Jun 27, 2012, 12:13:23 PM6/27/12
to
On 6/27/12 9:13 AM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> There aren't many places where people use their
>> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>
> Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
> temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>
AOL. Depending on how extensive -- or not -- your air conditioning is,
> In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> There aren't many places where people use their
>> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>
> Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
> temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>
you may HAVE to use it in the morning to make sure you don't lose ground
during the day and have to play catch-up with inadequate cooling resources.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Joe Pfeiffer
Jun 27, 2012, 12:19:46 PM6/27/12
to
Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
> In article <1blij82...@pfeifferfamily.net>,
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>>
>> > In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
>> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> There aren't many places where people use their
>> >> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>> >
>> > Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
>> > and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
>> > temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>>
>> Here in the land of the swamp coolers mine is still fighting to bring
>> the inside temperature back down until some time around 3 or 4, and
>> doesn't start back up again until late morning.
>
> Why called swamp coolers, they definitely don't work in a swamp, like
> Washington DC.
You're right, they only work in the desert (we've had ... checking
> In article <1blij82...@pfeifferfamily.net>,
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>>
>> > In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
>> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> There aren't many places where people use their
>> >> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>> >
>> > Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
>> > and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
>> > temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>>
>> Here in the land of the swamp coolers mine is still fighting to bring
>> the inside temperature back down until some time around 3 or 4, and
>> doesn't start back up again until late morning.
>
> Why called swamp coolers, they definitely don't work in a swamp, like
> Washington DC.
... 1.17" of rain so far this year. Works great!). I'm guessing the
name comes because they raise the humidity inside the house.
> A lot depends on the abode. If a flat roofed the temperature profile
> will be quite different.
> And is that 3 or 4 AM or PM?
Patrick Scheible
Jun 27, 2012, 1:17:40 PM6/27/12
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> writes:
> On 27/06/12 2:27 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>
>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>> as long.
>>
>>> They actually measured it.
>>
>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>
>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>
>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>
> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal compared with
> the usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days. If
> the adults don't turn them on, the kids do and they're putting them on
> for an extra hour each day.
Wait, where does the extra hour of use of lights with DST come from? My
> On 27/06/12 2:27 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>
>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>> as long.
>>
>>> They actually measured it.
>>
>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>
>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>
>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>
> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal compared with
> the usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days. If
> the adults don't turn them on, the kids do and they're putting them on
> for an extra hour each day.
experience is more light in the evenings means using fewer lights, both
because of being outside and because of not needing the lights on
inside.
> There aren't many places where people use their air-conditioners in
> the early morning.
>
> There is no power saving with daylight saving and recent studies show
> there is usually a loss. In the end, it boils down to a conflict of
> interest between morning and evening people.
-- Patrick
Rod Speed
Jun 27, 2012, 1:36:48 PM6/27/12
to
Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote
> It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer and certainly
> most of the summer time in many place. When the temperature
> is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
There arent all that many big citys with 100F at 7am.
None of ours are and very few towns either.
But plenty have their aircon on when its 80F too.
I don’t personally, normally wait till at least
85F but I'm certainly unusual in that regard.
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
>> There aren't many places where people use
>> their air-conditioners in the early morning.
> Where do *you* live?
Western Australia in his case.
>> There aren't many places where people use
>> their air-conditioners in the early morning.
> Where do *you* live?
> It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer and certainly
> most of the summer time in many place. When the temperature
> is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
None of ours are and very few towns either.
But plenty have their aircon on when its 80F too.
I don’t personally, normally wait till at least
85F but I'm certainly unusual in that regard.
Walter Bushell
Jun 27, 2012, 1:51:16 PM6/27/12
to
In article <jsfbf3$fa5$3...@dont-email.me>,
degree F is quite different from a 90 degree day.
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On 6/27/12 9:13 AM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> > In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >
> >> There aren't many places where people use their
> >> air-conditioners in the early morning.
> >
> > Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> > and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
> > temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
> >
>
> AOL. Depending on how extensive -- or not -- your air conditioning is,
> you may HAVE to use it in the morning to make sure you don't lose ground
> during the day and have to play catch-up with inadequate cooling resources.
And, of course, how hot the day is (or is predicted) to be. A hundred
> On 6/27/12 9:13 AM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> > In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >
> >> There aren't many places where people use their
> >> air-conditioners in the early morning.
> >
> > Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> > and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
> > temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
> >
>
> AOL. Depending on how extensive -- or not -- your air conditioning is,
> you may HAVE to use it in the morning to make sure you don't lose ground
> during the day and have to play catch-up with inadequate cooling resources.
degree F is quite different from a 90 degree day.
Scott Lurndal
Jun 27, 2012, 2:20:42 PM6/27/12
to
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> writes:
>Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote
>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
>
>>> There aren't many places where people use
>>> their air-conditioners in the early morning.
>
>> Where do *you* live?
>
>Western Australia in his case.
>
>> It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer and certainly
>> most of the summer time in many place. When the temperature
>> is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>
>There arent all that many big citys with 100F at 7am.
There are places where temperatures reach 100F on
>Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote
>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
>
>>> There aren't many places where people use
>>> their air-conditioners in the early morning.
>
>> Where do *you* live?
>
>Western Australia in his case.
>
>> It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer and certainly
>> most of the summer time in many place. When the temperature
>> is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>
>There arent all that many big citys with 100F at 7am.
occasion (it hit 99F at my house a couple of weeks
ago), but many homes don't have air conditioning
(mine doesn't). We are blessed with low humidity
so 90+ degrees isn't all that unpleasant, and we
are also blessed with cool sea breezes in the evening,
so open windows at night are sufficient with a
well insulated house (it reached 80 internally on the
99F external day).
I can open the windows at night and it will be less than 65 in the
house at 8 am. There are two or three nights a year
(offshore flows) where it doesn't cool down below 60 overnight,
but they are exceptional (had 49 overnight this week).
That said, the last three years have been cooler than average.
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardisp.php?stn=KSJC&wfo=mtr&year=2012&span=Calendar+Year
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardisp.php?stn=KSJC&wfo=mtr&year=2011&span=Calendar+Year
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardisp.php?stn=KSJC&wfo=mtr&year=2010&span=Calendar+Year
On the other hand, when I lived in the midwest, AC was useful (if not necessary).
scott
Scott Lurndal
Jun 27, 2012, 2:24:29 PM6/27/12
to
is not too bad, compared with 90F and 90%RH which is just plain miserable.
scott
Rod Speed
Jun 27, 2012, 2:49:48 PM6/27/12
to
"Walter Bushell" <pr...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-537901....@news.panix.com...
> In article <1blij82...@pfeifferfamily.net>,
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>>
>> > In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
>> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> There aren't many places where people use their
>> >> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>> >
>> > Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
>> > and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
>> > temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>>
>> Here in the land of the swamp coolers mine is still fighting to bring
>> the inside temperature back down until some time around 3 or 4, and
>> doesn't start back up again until late morning.
> Why called swamp coolers,
Because they can produce a rather swampy
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>>
>> > In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
>> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> There aren't many places where people use their
>> >> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>> >
>> > Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
>> > and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
>> > temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>>
>> Here in the land of the swamp coolers mine is still fighting to bring
>> the inside temperature back down until some time around 3 or 4, and
>> doesn't start back up again until late morning.
> Why called swamp coolers,
climate with high humidity levels.
We call ours air coolers.
> they definitely don't work in a swamp, like Washington DC.
> A lot depends on the abode.
> If a flat roofed the temperature profile will be quite different.
peaked roof houses and don’t get that result.
> And is that 3 or 4 AM or PM?
its got to be a very very hot night before I leave mine on
when I got to bed because it ends up too damned cold for me
and I have to get up and turn the cooler off in the middle of the night.
Rod Speed
Jun 27, 2012, 3:04:20 PM6/27/12
to
"Joe Pfeiffer" <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:1behp02...@pfeifferfamily.net...
Rod Speed
Jun 27, 2012, 3:51:55 PM6/27/12
to
"Scott Lurndal" <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message
news:Z9IGr.110852$OB4.1...@news.usenetserver.com...
humiditys down in the low single digits in weather like that.
Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
We don’t ever see 100F at 7am tho.
Rod Speed
Jun 27, 2012, 3:57:26 PM6/27/12
to
"Scott Lurndal" <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message
check the mail etc.
> compared with 90F and 90%RH which is just plain miserable.
Patrick Scheible
Jun 27, 2012, 3:53:11 PM6/27/12
to
Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>
>> In article <1blij82...@pfeifferfamily.net>,
>> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>>>
>>> > In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> There aren't many places where people use their
>>> >> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>>> >
>>> > Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
>>> > and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
>>> > temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>>>
>>> Here in the land of the swamp coolers mine is still fighting to bring
>>> the inside temperature back down until some time around 3 or 4, and
>>> doesn't start back up again until late morning.
>>
>> Why called swamp coolers, they definitely don't work in a swamp, like
>> Washington DC.
>
> You're right, they only work in the desert (we've had ... checking
> ... 1.17" of rain so far this year.
Jeez. We had more rain than that just last Friday and Saturday.
> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>
>> In article <1blij82...@pfeifferfamily.net>,
>> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>>>
>>> > In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> There aren't many places where people use their
>>> >> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>>> >
>>> > Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
>>> > and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
>>> > temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>>>
>>> Here in the land of the swamp coolers mine is still fighting to bring
>>> the inside temperature back down until some time around 3 or 4, and
>>> doesn't start back up again until late morning.
>>
>> Why called swamp coolers, they definitely don't work in a swamp, like
>> Washington DC.
>
> You're right, they only work in the desert (we've had ... checking
> ... 1.17" of rain so far this year.
-- Patrick
Scott Lurndal
Jun 27, 2012, 4:05:53 PM6/27/12
to
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>"Scott Lurndal" <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message
>
>
>"Scott Lurndal" <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message
>> I can open the windows at night and it will be less than 65 in the
>> house at 8 am. There are two or three nights a year
>> (offshore flows) where it doesn't cool down below 60 overnight,
>> but they are exceptional (had 49 overnight this week).
>> house at 8 am. There are two or three nights a year
>> (offshore flows) where it doesn't cool down below 60 overnight,
>> but they are exceptional (had 49 overnight this week).
>Yeah, we get 10 days over 100F in quite a few summers, with
>humiditys down in the low single digits in weather like that.
>
>Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
>there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
I have a couple of portable swamp coolers (australian built)
>humiditys down in the low single digits in weather like that.
>
>Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
>there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
but I haven't needed them for the last three years, so they've
stayed in the attic.
scott
Walter Bushell
Jun 27, 2012, 5:15:46 PM6/27/12
to
In article <xdIGr.110854$OB4....@news.usenetserver.com>,
How did I forget that! It's not the heat it's the humility.
Robert Bannister
Jun 27, 2012, 8:32:05 PM6/27/12
to
> Certainly quite a few turn it off when they go out to
> work and school, but that just affects the outside temp
> seen for one hour with daylight saving if they have it
> on in the morning before they leave for the day.
------------------------------
> work and school, but that just affects the outside temp
> seen for one hour with daylight saving if they have it
> on in the morning before they leave for the day.
I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
And
> plenty do, I see that when I do the garage/yard sale
> run in the summer, normally starting at 6am.
>> Coming home earlier (by sun time), people are more likely to turn the
>> air-con on even on a mild day.
>
> I'd want some evidence for that particular claim.
>>>> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
>
>>> Not even possible to measure the power used with
>>> no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
>
>> Not true.
>
> Fraid so.
>> Here in Western Australia we have, despite numerous referenda against
>> it, had several trials of daylight saving.
>
> Yes, but that's very unusual indeed and its difficult to separate out
> the effect of weather on total power consumption even with your trials.
>> The last one was only a few years ago. Thank Lady Luck, we have
>> managed to scuttle the idea again. Of course, it is a perennial
>> favourite with governments who are in trouble - bring up daylight
>> saving, cause a furore, and everyone forgets about the other bad
>> things for a while.
>
> Doesn't explain why trials are so rare elsewhere.
to have it in Y. Governments think they are shepherds and we are shorn
whether we like it or not.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 27, 2012, 8:35:22 PM6/27/12
to
5 and 6 am when it is light? I agree there is more organised activity in
the afternoon, but the trend is for fewer and fewer people to engage in
any outside activity at all. As for the evening, that's dangerous with
all the drug-crazed criminals around.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 27, 2012, 8:38:31 PM6/27/12
to
On 27/06/12 9:13 PM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> There aren't many places where people use their
>> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>
> Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
> temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>
Not fit for human habitation. [smile]
> In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> There aren't many places where people use their
>> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>
> Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
> and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
> temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>
I can't sleep with the air-con on, but luckily it is almost never that
bad in the early morning here.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 27, 2012, 8:41:42 PM6/27/12
to
unbearable.
--
Robert Bannister
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Jun 27, 2012, 9:03:37 PM6/27/12
to
Howard Brazee
Jun 27, 2012, 9:40:41 PM6/27/12
to
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 05:04:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> And is that 3 or 4 AM or PM?
>>
>> AM (it sure isn't going to turn off at 4 PM!)
>
>Fark. You need better insulation and a much bigger swamp cooler.
Swamp coolers work with open windows. Insulation doesn't help much.
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> And is that 3 or 4 AM or PM?
>>
>> AM (it sure isn't going to turn off at 4 PM!)
>
>Fark. You need better insulation and a much bigger swamp cooler.
I live in the Denver area, so they work well but don't need to run
long as at altitude, nighttime cools down much better in the thinner
air.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Rod Speed
Jun 27, 2012, 10:04:45 PM6/27/12
to
"Robert Bannister" <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:a51n07...@mid.individual.net...
you arent in the house, the only effect of daylight saving
is the outside temperature seen in just the one hour at
the start of the time you turn the aircon on for when you
turn it on when you return to the house after work or school.
Tho I spose that if you normally do turn the aircon off
at night, and most people don't, you can certainly
say that there is an extra hour when the aircon is on
if they don't have it on the morning before they leave
the house. My neighbours do mostly have their aircon
on 24/7 in the hottest weather and some leave it on
when they are out of the house too, but that's mostly
with the much cheaper to run evaporative cooling.
Still happens with those with proper refrigerative cooling
tho, particularly when the house is well insulated.
> Are you saying a lot of people leave the air-con on all day?
> That is just asking for a house fire.
And heaps leave their house heating on when they are out
of the house, just so that its not frigid when they get home.
And in much colder northern climates hordes do leave
some heating on right thru the winter even when the
house isnt occupied, to stop the water pipes freezing.
>> And plenty do, I see that when I do the garage/yard sale run in the
>> summer, normally starting at 6am.
>>> Coming home earlier (by sun time), people are more likely to turn the
>>> air-con on even on a mild day.
>>
>> I'd want some evidence for that particular claim.
>>>>> Still, actual measurement trumps theory.
>>
>>>> Not even possible to measure the power used with
>>>> no daylight saving at the same time of the year.
>>
>>> Not true.
>>
>> Fraid so.
>>> Here in Western Australia we have, despite numerous referenda against
>>> it, had several trials of daylight saving.
>>
>> Yes, but that's very unusual indeed and its difficult to separate out
>> the effect of weather on total power consumption even with your trials.
>>> The last one was only a few years ago. Thank Lady Luck, we have
>>> managed to scuttle the idea again. Of course, it is a perennial
>>> favourite with governments who are in trouble - bring up daylight
>>> saving, cause a furore, and everyone forgets about the other bad
>>> things for a while.
>>
>> Doesn't explain why trials are so rare elsewhere.
> Because most people are sheep.
> They have daylight saving in X so we have to have it in Y.
US.
It does make sense in the smaller places like Britain which just have one
timezone.
> Governments think they are shepherds and we are shorn whether we like it
> or not.
Its much more about a difficult compromise between
those that want it and those that hate it.
Robert Bannister
Jun 27, 2012, 10:10:21 PM6/27/12
to
heater for winter - air-conditioners are not terribly efficient at
cooling, but they do a very good job at heating, especially if you've
got only electricity as I have. Then, I started switching it on when it
was very hot. Then the electricity people told us to turn them on before
it got really hot. Then I sort of started playing with the remote when I
shouldn't. OK, I'm still not as bad a children can be, but I do have it
on more than I used to, and most people I know are the same unless they
live right by the sea where they can catch breezes that never come inland.
For me, 25°C is normal room temperature and I'm comfortable up to 30°.
After that it depends on the humidity and also on how I feel at the
time. I want to save on power bills, so I try not to turn it on till
it's 35° or more, but it's easy to slip.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 27, 2012, 10:15:19 PM6/27/12
to
On 28/06/12 3:51 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
> there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
How exactly do those work so they last all night? The only evaporative
> Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
> there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
coolers I've used, you had to fill with water from the garden hose and
they rarely lasted more than 2-3 hours, but that was when I lived much
farther north, more or less in the desert.
Some big buildings have enormous water-cooling reservoirs on their roofs
for their evaporative coolers, but there have been a number of cases
where this warm water has been the indirect cause of outbreaks of
Legionnaires' disease.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 27, 2012, 10:16:35 PM6/27/12
to
On 28/06/12 9:03 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 6/27/12 8:38 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 27/06/12 9:13 PM, Walter Bushell wrote:
>>> In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There aren't many places where people use their
>>>> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>>>
>>> Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
>>> and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
>>> temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>>>
>>
>> Not fit for human habitation. [smile]
>> I can't sleep with the air-con on, but luckily it is almost never that
>> bad in the early morning here.
>>
>
>
> I need either an air conditioner or a regular fan on, or I can't
> sleep.
>
I used to have fans who would sleep with me, but now I'm getting older I
> On 6/27/12 8:38 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 27/06/12 9:13 PM, Walter Bushell wrote:
>>> In article <a4v3bi...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There aren't many places where people use their
>>>> air-conditioners in the early morning.
>>>
>>> Where do *you* live? It's done quite frequently in NYC in the summer
>>> and certainly most of the summer time in many place. When the
>>> temperature is 100 at 7 AM you think people did not sleep with AC?
>>>
>>
>> Not fit for human habitation. [smile]
>> I can't sleep with the air-con on, but luckily it is almost never that
>> bad in the early morning here.
>>
>
>
> I need either an air conditioner or a regular fan on, or I can't
> sleep.
>
just need conditioning.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 27, 2012, 10:17:50 PM6/27/12
to
On 28/06/12 1:17 AM, Patrick Scheible wrote:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> writes:
>
>> On 27/06/12 2:27 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>
>>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>>> as long.
>>>
>>>> They actually measured it.
>>>
>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>>
>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>>
>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>>
>> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal compared with
>> the usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days. If
>> the adults don't turn them on, the kids do and they're putting them on
>> for an extra hour each day.
>
>
> Wait, where does the extra hour of use of lights with DST come from? My
> experience is more light in the evenings means using fewer lights, both
> because of being outside and because of not needing the lights on
> inside.
Who mentioned extra use of lights?
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> writes:
>
>> On 27/06/12 2:27 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>>>>> There have been some recent studies which show that
>>>>>> these days, there is no energy savings for going to DST.
>>>
>>>>> There must be some, if only because the lights don't have to on for
>>>>> as long.
>>>
>>>> They actually measured it.
>>>
>>> Not even possible. And you don't have to measure it to know
>>> that the lights must be on for an hour less with daylight saving.
>>>
>>>> Some people use lights in the morning when it's dark.
>>>
>>> But far more use the lights for an hour less in the evening.
>>
>> The amount of power used by lighting is infinitesimal compared with
>> the usage by air-conditioners, which most people have these days. If
>> the adults don't turn them on, the kids do and they're putting them on
>> for an extra hour each day.
>
>
> Wait, where does the extra hour of use of lights with DST come from? My
> experience is more light in the evenings means using fewer lights, both
> because of being outside and because of not needing the lights on
> inside.
>
>> There aren't many places where people use their air-conditioners in
>> the early morning.
>>
>> There is no power saving with daylight saving and recent studies show
>> there is usually a loss. In the end, it boils down to a conflict of
>> interest between morning and evening people.
>
> Like to see these studies.
I read it in the newspaper so it must be true.
>> There aren't many places where people use their air-conditioners in
>> the early morning.
>>
>> There is no power saving with daylight saving and recent studies show
>> there is usually a loss. In the end, it boils down to a conflict of
>> interest between morning and evening people.
>
> Like to see these studies.
>
> -- Patrick
>
--
Robert Bannister
Rod Speed
Jun 27, 2012, 10:23:56 PM6/27/12
to
news:a51n6d...@mid.individual.net...
Yeah, I start the garage/yard sale run at 05:50 because
I like to be there an hour early for the 7am starts and
there are plenty of people out at that time, even in
winter when its dark then. You have to be careful you
don't run the more stupid who do it in dark clothing
on the road in the same direction as the traffic.
And I'm out myself at that time in the summer,
I start when its very much first light so I don't
trip over stuff on the bush tracks that I walk on,
so I'm finished in the coolest part of the day.
> I agree there is more organised activity in the afternoon, but the trend
> is for fewer and fewer people to engage in any outside activity at all.
I don't agree with that at all
We always have kids playing organised cricket
on the school oval that's only 150' from my house
in summer evenings and hordes of people walk
thru the park next to my house right thru the day.
> As for the evening, that's dangerous with all the drug-crazed criminals
> around.
I used to accept that line until it registered that
we have petite female parking inspectors booking
people at all hours by themselves in that den of
iniquity, Sydney. Cant recall even one of those
ever having a problem. Its an urban myth basically.
I like to be there an hour early for the 7am starts and
there are plenty of people out at that time, even in
winter when its dark then. You have to be careful you
don't run the more stupid who do it in dark clothing
on the road in the same direction as the traffic.
And I'm out myself at that time in the summer,
I start when its very much first light so I don't
trip over stuff on the bush tracks that I walk on,
so I'm finished in the coolest part of the day.
> I agree there is more organised activity in the afternoon, but the trend
> is for fewer and fewer people to engage in any outside activity at all.
We always have kids playing organised cricket
on the school oval that's only 150' from my house
in summer evenings and hordes of people walk
thru the park next to my house right thru the day.
> As for the evening, that's dangerous with all the drug-crazed criminals
> around.
we have petite female parking inspectors booking
people at all hours by themselves in that den of
iniquity, Sydney. Cant recall even one of those
ever having a problem. Its an urban myth basically.
Howard Brazee
Jun 27, 2012, 10:37:02 PM6/27/12
to
one in the house my son now has. We attached a small hose from a
faucet to fill its small reservoir. I haven't heard of a family
swamp cooler causing Legionnaires' disease.
My portable swamp cooler holds enough for a night, but we use its
timer to cut off after a couple of hours, living a mile high, we don't
need it all night.
Rod Speed
Jun 27, 2012, 10:47:34 PM6/27/12
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
roof plumbed into the water supply with a float valve
the same as you see in a toilet cistern that maintains
a fixed water level in a fibreglass dish thing that covers
the bottom of the cooler. There's an electric pump that
pumps water from there that trickles down over wood
wool pads that are the entire 4 vertical sides of the
cooler with a huge great drum fan that sucks the
outside air thru the pads that have water running down
them and blows the air into the house thru the big
3' square sheet metal duct that the whole cooler sits on.
> The only evaporative coolers I've used, you had to fill with water from
> the garden hose and they rarely lasted more than 2-3 hours, but that was
> when I lived much farther north, more or less in the desert.
Don’t they have the big evap coolers on the roof there ?
They stand out like dogs balls here as you drive around the streets.
> Some big buildings have enormous water-cooling reservoirs on their roofs
They arent actually reservoirs, they are cooling towers.
> for their evaporative coolers,
Bet they are actually cooling towers for their refrigerative aircons.
> but there have been a number of cases where this warm water
You don’t get warm water with evaporative coolers,
because the air moving thru the wet pads cools the
water by evaporation.
> has been the indirect cause of outbreaks of Legionnaires' disease.
Yeah, it’s a notorious problem with airconditioning cooling towers.
Easily avoided by cleaning them properly. Legionella is easy to kill.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
>> there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
> How exactly do those work so they last all night?
They are fucking great small car sized cubes up on the
>> Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
>> there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
> How exactly do those work so they last all night?
roof plumbed into the water supply with a float valve
the same as you see in a toilet cistern that maintains
a fixed water level in a fibreglass dish thing that covers
the bottom of the cooler. There's an electric pump that
pumps water from there that trickles down over wood
wool pads that are the entire 4 vertical sides of the
cooler with a huge great drum fan that sucks the
outside air thru the pads that have water running down
them and blows the air into the house thru the big
3' square sheet metal duct that the whole cooler sits on.
> The only evaporative coolers I've used, you had to fill with water from
> the garden hose and they rarely lasted more than 2-3 hours, but that was
> when I lived much farther north, more or less in the desert.
They stand out like dogs balls here as you drive around the streets.
> Some big buildings have enormous water-cooling reservoirs on their roofs
> for their evaporative coolers,
Bet they are actually cooling towers for their refrigerative aircons.
> but there have been a number of cases where this warm water
because the air moving thru the wet pads cools the
water by evaporation.
> has been the indirect cause of outbreaks of Legionnaires' disease.
Easily avoided by cleaning them properly. Legionella is easy to kill.
Joe Pfeiffer
Jun 28, 2012, 12:39:29 AM6/28/12
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> writes:
> On 28/06/12 3:51 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
>> there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
>
> How exactly do those work so they last all night? The only evaporative
> coolers I've used, you had to fill with water from the garden hose and
> they rarely lasted more than 2-3 hours, but that was when I lived much
> farther north, more or less in the desert.
The permanent ones are plumbed. There's a water line coming up through
> On 28/06/12 3:51 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> Hardly anyone doesn’t have a swamp cooler, tho
>> there still are a few. Ran into one last summer.
>
> How exactly do those work so they last all night? The only evaporative
> coolers I've used, you had to fill with water from the garden hose and
> they rarely lasted more than 2-3 hours, but that was when I lived much
> farther north, more or less in the desert.
the roof to it.
David DeLaney
Jun 28, 2012, 2:04:47 AM6/28/12
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
>I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
My central air is not _running_ 24/7, but it is -on- 24/7, and it decides
when to turn on and cool the apartment down a couple degrees, and when to
turn off, based on this "thermostat" thingy. And that can happen any time of
day or night at this season; we're expected to hit near 100F this weekend
in Knoxville...
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
Jun 28, 2012, 2:06:07 AM6/28/12
to
but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
hydrated,
>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
hydrated,
>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 2:09:53 AM6/28/12
to
David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote
>> whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
> "Is". Not "can be".
Wrong again. I have born it fine on more than one occasion.
> Plus you slip off the car seat while driving,
I don't.
> which is Bad.
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
>> And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> hydrated,
Nope, I don't do anything special in that situation.
>> And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> hydrated,
>> whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
> "Is". Not "can be".
> Plus you slip off the car seat while driving,
> which is Bad.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Jun 28, 2012, 8:06:08 AM6/28/12
to
On 6/28/12 2:04 AM, David DeLaney wrote:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>> what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>> air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>
> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
>
On days where it hits over 90, the air conditioner is in fact likely to
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>> what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>> air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>
> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
>
be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient air
conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my house
down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have enough to
MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
That doesn't mean the air conditioner's *compressor* is running 24/7,
although it may be a near thing on very hot days.
Michael Stemper
Jun 28, 2012, 9:08:56 AM6/28/12
to
In article <slrnjunrn...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
>but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>hydrated,
>
>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
>"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
Time to get rid of those vinyl seats. (How old is your car, anyway? I didn't
>Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
>but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>hydrated,
>
>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
>"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.
Howard Brazee
Jun 28, 2012, 10:47:50 AM6/28/12
to
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 13:08:56 +0000 (UTC),
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>>but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>hydrated,
>>
>>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>
>>"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
>
>Time to get rid of those vinyl seats. (How old is your car, anyway? I didn't
>think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
Leather is almost as bad, and costs much more. But it isn't sliding
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>>but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>hydrated,
>>
>>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>
>>"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
>
>Time to get rid of those vinyl seats. (How old is your car, anyway? I didn't
>think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
off, it's sticking to the seats.
Walter Bushell
Jun 28, 2012, 11:46:16 AM6/28/12
to
In article <jshhbg$gqp$1...@dont-email.me>,
can keep the temperature to 80F or less.
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On days where it hits over 90, the air conditioner is in fact likely to
> be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient air
> conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my house
> down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have enough to
> MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
A lot of people in that boat on really hot days with a running start I
> On days where it hits over 90, the air conditioner is in fact likely to
> be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient air
> conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my house
> down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have enough to
> MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
can keep the temperature to 80F or less.
Patrick Scheible
Jun 28, 2012, 12:03:02 PM6/28/12
to
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> hydrated,
>
>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> hydrated,
>
>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
necessity.
-- Patrick
David Dyer-Bennet
Jun 28, 2012, 12:26:09 PM6/28/12
to
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>>what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>>air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>
> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
>
> My central air is not _running_ 24/7, but it is -on- 24/7, and it decides
> when to turn on and cool the apartment down a couple degrees, and when to
> turn off, based on this "thermostat" thingy. And that can happen any time of
> day or night at this season; we're expected to hit near 100F this weekend
> in Knoxville...
And our household has always (since 1982 or some such) had people likely
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>>what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>>air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>
> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
>
> My central air is not _running_ 24/7, but it is -on- 24/7, and it decides
> when to turn on and cool the apartment down a couple degrees, and when to
> turn off, based on this "thermostat" thingy. And that can happen any time of
> day or night at this season; we're expected to hit near 100F this weekend
> in Knoxville...
to be home at any given hour of any given day, so letting the whole
place heat up isn't really an option.
More recently, I've run from one to four servers at home (down to one
currently), and I won't run a computer in a room that's above 80F.
(Kind of an arbitrary choice, but I'm used to computers wanting it much
cooler than that.)
And it does sometimes take a while to cool down enough to sleep on a hot
day.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
Joe Pfeiffer
Jun 28, 2012, 12:32:27 PM6/28/12
to
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> hydrated,
>
>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
That's what seat belts and shoulder harnesses are for (I have yet to
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> hydrated,
>
>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
have them do me any good in an accident, since I've never had an
accident with enough energy to move me. But they've kept me in my seat
many times going around corners).
Joe Pfeiffer
Jun 28, 2012, 12:34:37 PM6/28/12
to
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) writes:
> In article <slrnjunrn...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>>Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>>
>>but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>hydrated,
>>
>>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>
>>"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
>
> Time to get rid of those vinyl seats. (How old is your car, anyway? I didn't
> think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
Leather isn't a lot better where I live. Every vehicle we've bought
> In article <slrnjunrn...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>>Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>>
>>but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>hydrated,
>>
>>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>
>>"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
>
> Time to get rid of those vinyl seats. (How old is your car, anyway? I didn't
> think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
where we've had a choice has had cloth seats; the leather exceptions
have had sheepskin seat covers.
Remember the episode of "Married With Children" in which Al drvies the
Mighty Dart through the town of Burnt Scrotum, NM?
David Dyer-Bennet
Jun 28, 2012, 12:42:23 PM6/28/12
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> writes:
> I used to have fans who would sleep with me, but now I'm getting older
> I just need conditioning.
Usually, by the time one gets older, the conditioning has been
> I used to have fans who would sleep with me, but now I'm getting older
> I just need conditioning.
accomplished.
I do still have fans who sleep with me, though.
Nick Spalding
Jun 28, 2012, 1:22:29 PM6/28/12
to
Patrick Scheible wrote, in <86bok3s...@zipcon.net>
on Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:03:02 -0700:
I spent most of 1953 and 1954 at the cable station in Jesselton, North
Borneo – 6N 116E – (nowadays Kota Kinabalu, Sabah) without air
conditioning. The cable station and staff quarters were newly built and
the cable equipment room did have not very effective air conditioning
but not the living spaces. We didn't expect it so we didn't miss it.
The place had been pretty thoroughly destroyed when the Australians took
it back from the Japanese in 1945 and most of the businesses, including
both the Chartered Bank and the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank were in pretty
makeshift wooden buildings. I think it was the Hong Kong Shanghai that
built itself a shiny new concrete building, fully air conditioned. The
employees and customers hated it and some of the latter even moved
their accounts to the Chartered.
The cable station has now been replaced by a fancy hotel.
--
Nick Spalding
on Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:03:02 -0700:
Borneo – 6N 116E – (nowadays Kota Kinabalu, Sabah) without air
conditioning. The cable station and staff quarters were newly built and
the cable equipment room did have not very effective air conditioning
but not the living spaces. We didn't expect it so we didn't miss it.
The place had been pretty thoroughly destroyed when the Australians took
it back from the Japanese in 1945 and most of the businesses, including
both the Chartered Bank and the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank were in pretty
makeshift wooden buildings. I think it was the Hong Kong Shanghai that
built itself a shiny new concrete building, fully air conditioned. The
employees and customers hated it and some of the latter even moved
their accounts to the Chartered.
The cable station has now been replaced by a fancy hotel.
--
Nick Spalding
Scott Lurndal
Jun 28, 2012, 1:36:53 PM6/28/12
to
data centers are now running ambient at 80F or higher. You do have less time
to recover from a cooling system failure, in this case, however.
Intel has experimented with outside air cooling in New Mexico (outside air
temperatures between 68 and 94) and found no increase in failure rates.
My computer room may vary between 60f and 90f on really hot days, but I have
no air conditioning.
scott
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 3:15:16 PM6/28/12
to
"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:cjrou7ppf9nulhihk...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 13:08:56 +0000 (UTC),
> mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>
>>>but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>>hydrated,
>>>
>>>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>>
>>>"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which
>>>is Bad.
>>
>>Time to get rid of those vinyl seats. (How old is your car, anyway? I
>>didn't
>>think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
> Leather is almost as bad,
Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
> mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>
>>>but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>>hydrated,
>>>
>>>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>>
>>>"Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which
>>>is Bad.
>>
>>Time to get rid of those vinyl seats. (How old is your car, anyway? I
>>didn't
>>think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
> Leather is almost as bad,
> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
> seats.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 4:08:04 PM6/28/12
to
"Nick Spalding" <spal...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:8v3pu7p9j7hjarerr...@4ax.com...
> Patrick Scheible wrote, in <86bok3s...@zipcon.net>
> on Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:03:02 -0700:
>
>>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>>
>>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>>>
>>> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>> hydrated,
>>>
>>>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>>
>>> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which
>>> is Bad.
>>This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
>>changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
>>south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
>>bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
>>necessity.
> I spent most of 1953 and 1954 at the cable station in Jesselton, North
> Borneo
> – 6N 116E – (nowadays Kota Kinabalu, Sabah) without air conditioning.
I spent 3-4 years in Singapore at that time.
> on Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:03:02 -0700:
>
>>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>>
>>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>>>
>>> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>> hydrated,
>>>
>>>>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>>
>>> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which
>>> is Bad.
>>This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
>>changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
>>south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
>>bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
>>necessity.
> I spent most of 1953 and 1954 at the cable station in Jesselton, North
> Borneo
> – 6N 116E – (nowadays Kota Kinabalu, Sabah) without air conditioning.
> The cable station and staff quarters were newly built and the
> cable equipment room did have not very effective air conditioning
> but not the living spaces. We didn't expect it so we didn't miss it.
I do remember the car could get stinking hot in the sun.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 4:12:54 PM6/28/12
to
"Scott Lurndal" <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message
news:VC0Hr.111757$Qq6....@news.usenetserver.com...
> Many commercial data centers are now running ambient at 80F or higher.
> You do have less time to recover from a cooling system failure, in this
> case, however.
> Intel has experimented with outside air cooling in New Mexico (outside air
> temperatures between 68 and 94) and found no increase in failure rates.
> My computer room may vary between 60f and 90f on really hot days, but I
> have
> no air conditioning.
is over 90F, I just like it that warm, and since the computers are on
all the time 24/7, they can see 100F or more when I have been out
for a while with the cooler off.
Peter Flass
Jun 28, 2012, 4:35:29 PM6/28/12
to
On 6/28/2012 2:04 AM, David DeLaney wrote:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>> what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>> air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>
> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
The fan could overheat and catch fire. Not high on my list of worries,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>> what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>> air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>
> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
but possible, I suppose.
--
Pete
Peter Flass
Jun 28, 2012, 4:53:24 PM6/28/12
to
On 6/28/2012 12:03 PM, Patrick Scheible wrote:
>
> This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
> changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
> south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
> bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
> necessity.
>
Houses in the old days were built for the climate. Plantation houses in
>
> This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
> changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
> south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
> bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
> necessity.
>
Louisiana had bedrooms on the second floor, largely open to catch the
breeze. Nowadays they take a standard "plan" and plop it down on a
random lot, not even attempting to orient it to the sun,
--
Pete
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 5:04:03 PM6/28/12
to
"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jsif5g$ka5$2...@dont-email.me...
> Not high on my list of worries, but possible, I suppose.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 5:17:04 PM6/28/12
to
"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> On 6/28/2012 12:03 PM, Patrick Scheible wrote:
>>
>> This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
>> changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
>> south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
>> bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
>> necessity.
> Houses in the old days were built for the climate. Plantation houses in
> Louisiana had bedrooms on the second floor, largely open to catch the
> breeze.
Yeah, that was certainly true of our tropics.
>>
>> This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
>> changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
>> south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
>> bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
>> necessity.
> Houses in the old days were built for the climate. Plantation houses in
> Louisiana had bedrooms on the second floor, largely open to catch the
> breeze.
> Nowadays they take a standard "plan" and plop it down on a random lot, not
> even attempting to orient it to the sun,
and due to most just facing the street, even on NS streets
where that gives a lousy result in hot climate areas.
Dave Garland
Jun 28, 2012, 6:40:40 PM6/28/12
to
way of fire, there's not a lot to burn, and then the breaker will pop.
It's more realistic to worry about leaving your heating plant turned
on but we do, all winter. When I was a kid and our heat was from a
hand-stoked coal furnace, carbon monoxide was a very real risk, and my
father left his bedroom window open a crack for fresh air even in the
dead of winter.
I dunno. Washing machines in Oz are obviously different from North
American ones, maybe their air conditioners are made of flammable
materials. And Aunt Bertha is always a bit of a worry when she
escapes from the basement.
Patrick Scheible
Jun 28, 2012, 6:42:12 PM6/28/12
to
years.
-- Patrick
Bill Snyder
Jun 28, 2012, 7:00:09 PM6/28/12
to
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Howard Brazee
Jun 28, 2012, 7:02:35 PM6/28/12
to
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:15:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Leather is almost as bad,
>
>Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
>
>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>> seats.
>
>I don't stick to the seats.
Some people sweat more than other people. And hot cars make people
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Leather is almost as bad,
>
>Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
>
>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>> seats.
>
>I don't stick to the seats.
sweat more than air conditioned living rooms.
Howard Brazee
Jun 28, 2012, 7:04:14 PM6/28/12
to
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:32:27 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
>
>That's what seat belts and shoulder harnesses are for (I have yet to
>have them do me any good in an accident, since I've never had an
>accident with enough energy to move me. But they've kept me in my seat
>many times going around corners).
Seat belts, low and tight below the hips also decrease fatigue
<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
>
>That's what seat belts and shoulder harnesses are for (I have yet to
>have them do me any good in an accident, since I've never had an
>accident with enough energy to move me. But they've kept me in my seat
>many times going around corners).
considerably.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 7:37:53 PM6/28/12
to
"Dave Garland" <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote in message
news:jsimhk$605$1...@dont-email.me...
> And Aunt Bertha is always a bit of a worry when she escapes from the
> basement.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 7:38:51 PM6/28/12
to
"Patrick Scheible" <k...@zipcon.net> wrote in message
news:86wr2rf...@zipcon.net...
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 7:41:11 PM6/28/12
to
news:ajopu7pk616l57sfo...@4ax.com...
> And hot cars make people sweat more than air conditioned living rooms.
Everyone here has air conditioned cars.
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:15:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Leather is almost as bad,
>>
>>Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
>>
>>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>>> seats.
>>
>>I don't stick to the seats.
> Some people sweat more than other people.
Yep, specially the obscenely obese that you lot have so many of.
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Leather is almost as bad,
>>
>>Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
>>
>>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>>> seats.
>>
>>I don't stick to the seats.
> Some people sweat more than other people.
> And hot cars make people sweat more than air conditioned living rooms.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 7:48:34 PM6/28/12
to
"Scott Lurndal" <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message
Zero actually.
> bearing failure (particularly babbet bearings) can lead to fires,
Not when there is nothing to burn.
> and there is often combustable material near AC compressors
Nope,
> (and the associated air handling gear, i.e. furnace).
We don’t cosite aircons and furnaces.
We use split systems now, so there is only a small air
fan inside the house and the compressor is outside
with nothing burn anywhere near it and if the bearing
fails it will just pull the breaker.
> Resistance at corroded electrical terminals can also lead to fires.
Nope.
> Both are very low probability and avoidable with basic maintenance
> (proper lubrication for babbet bearings, for example)
We don’t have those in modern aircons.
> and not storing combutables near the equipment, and using proper
> electrical
> housings and connection techniques (like not connecting Cu and Al
> conductors
Don’t have those in house wiring.
> unless the appropriate bimetalic splitbolts and antioxidant grease are
> used).
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 8:59:54 PM6/28/12
to
On 28/06/12 10:04 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Its much more about a difficult compromise between
> those that want it and those that hate it.
As I said earlier: in the end it boils down to who is a morning person
and who is a night person.
--
Robert Bannister
> Its much more about a difficult compromise between
> those that want it and those that hate it.
As I said earlier: in the end it boils down to who is a morning person
and who is a night person.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 9:02:23 PM6/28/12
to
On 28/06/12 2:04 PM, David DeLaney wrote:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>> what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>> air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>
> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
Wiring. I have heard the fire people mention several times about the
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>> what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>> air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>
> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are stuck in
> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do that.
> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that exhausts the
> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged in and
> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky and the
> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
number of house fires started by faulty wiring with air-conditioners. I
suppose a lot of people install them themselves or re-use 30-year-old
wiring.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 9:03:58 PM6/28/12
to
On 28/06/12 8:06 PM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> likely to be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient
> air conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my
> house down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have
> enough to MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
>
> That doesn't mean the air conditioner's *compressor* is running
> 24/7, although it may be a near thing on very hot days.
I may have mine on all day if I am in the house, but I don't leave
anything running apart from fridges and freezer while I'm out.
Electricity is far too expensive.
--
Robert Bannister
> On 6/28/12 2:04 AM, David DeLaney wrote:
>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>> I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>>> what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>>> air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>>
>> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are
>> stuck in
>> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do
>> that.
>> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
>> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that
>> exhausts the
>> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged
>> in and
>> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky
>> and the
>> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
>>
>
>
> On days where it hits over 90, the air conditioner is in fact
>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>> I have read the above sentence several times and still do not understand
>>> what you're trying to say. Are you saying a lot of people leave the
>>> air-con on all day? That is just asking for a house fire.
>>
>> ?? Even given that you're responding to the Speedbot and thus are
>> stuck in
>> a minor alt-history to start with, what WHAT? Central air does not do
>> that.
>> Air conditioners sitting in windows don't do that. Swamp cooling doesn't
>> do that. What sort of air conditioner are you thinking of that
>> exhausts the
>> hot air -inside the house-? Or are you thinking "anything left plugged
>> in and
>> turned on all day will catch fire because Electricity Bad And Sparky
>> and the
>> cats or kids or dogs or hamsters or Aunt Bertha will gnaw on the wiring"?
>>
>
>
> likely to be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient
> air conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my
> house down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have
> enough to MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
>
> That doesn't mean the air conditioner's *compressor* is running
> 24/7, although it may be a near thing on very hot days.
I may have mine on all day if I am in the house, but I don't leave
anything running apart from fridges and freezer while I'm out.
Electricity is far too expensive.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 9:06:21 PM6/28/12
to
On 28/06/12 11:46 PM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <jshhbg$gqp$1...@dont-email.me>,
> can keep the temperature to 80F or less.
>
Hard to do much better than that. Few ACs will efficiently cope with
more than a ten degree Celsius difference between outside and in, though
I still know people where I have to put a jumper on when I visit because
they keep their houses so cold in summer.
--
Robert Bannister
> In article <jshhbg$gqp$1...@dont-email.me>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On days where it hits over 90, the air conditioner is in fact likely to
>> be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient air
>> conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my house
>> down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have enough to
>> MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
>
> A lot of people in that boat on really hot days with a running start I
>
>> On days where it hits over 90, the air conditioner is in fact likely to
>> be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient air
>> conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my house
>> down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have enough to
>> MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
>
> can keep the temperature to 80F or less.
>
Hard to do much better than that. Few ACs will efficiently cope with
more than a ten degree Celsius difference between outside and in, though
I still know people where I have to put a jumper on when I visit because
they keep their houses so cold in summer.
--
Robert Bannister
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 9:09:38 PM6/28/12
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
general stuff after work arent night people, just those who
prefer to do it after work rather than before work.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Its much more about a difficult compromise
>> between those that want it and those that hate it.
> As I said earlier: in the end it boils down to who
> is a morning person and who is a night person.
Nope, those who prefer to do stuff like exercise and other
>> Its much more about a difficult compromise
>> between those that want it and those that hate it.
> As I said earlier: in the end it boils down to who
> is a morning person and who is a night person.
general stuff after work arent night people, just those who
prefer to do it after work rather than before work.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Jun 28, 2012, 9:09:47 PM6/28/12
to
in the window, plug it in, and turn it on.
Central air, yeah, that's a pain, but a regular air conditioner is the
simplest thing to install. If you don't trust the window and windowsill
to hold it by itself, there are quite elegant and easy to install
support brackets that you can put in which will bear the weight quite
nicely.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 9:12:19 PM6/28/12
to
"Robert Bannister" <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:a54d50...@mid.individual.net...
> I suppose a lot of people install them themselves
> or re-use 30-year-old wiring.
30 year old wiring is fine. Mine is 40 years old and is as good as the day I
installed it.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 9:14:57 PM6/28/12
to
news:a54d7u...@mid.individual.net...
I leave the evaporative cooler on when I go out shopping etc,
so the house stays cool for when I return.
> Electricity is far too expensive.
It isnt that expensive.
so the house stays cool for when I return.
> Electricity is far too expensive.
Howard Brazee
Jun 28, 2012, 9:21:12 PM6/28/12
to
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 08:59:54 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> Its much more about a difficult compromise between
>> those that want it and those that hate it.
>
>As I said earlier: in the end it boils down to who is a morning person
>and who is a night person.
Only to those who are dependent upon events that care about the local
<rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> Its much more about a difficult compromise between
>> those that want it and those that hate it.
>
>As I said earlier: in the end it boils down to who is a morning person
>and who is a night person.
clock. We can be just as much of a morning or night person no
matter what the clock happens to say.
Howard Brazee
Jun 28, 2012, 9:21:47 PM6/28/12
to
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 9:20:42 PM6/28/12
to
news:a54dcd...@mid.individual.net...
that.
And the differential that can be maintained is determined by how well
the place is insulated. The computer room had waist to ceiling single
glazed steel framed glass for the whole of one of the largest walls.
> though I still know people where I have to put a jumper on when I visit
> because they keep their houses so cold in summer.
Yeah, I can need one in planes. But then I just wear shorts and a T shirt
and thongs.
> On 28/06/12 11:46 PM, Walter Bushell wrote:
>> In article <jshhbg$gqp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On days where it hits over 90, the air conditioner is in fact likely to
>>> be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient air
>>> conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my house
>>> down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have enough to
>>> MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
>>
>> A lot of people in that boat on really hot days with a running start I
>> can keep the temperature to 80F or less.
>>
>
> Hard to do much better than that. Few ACs will efficiently cope with more
> than a ten degree Celsius difference between outside and in,
That's just plain wrong. My computer room did a hell of a lot better than
>> In article <jshhbg$gqp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On days where it hits over 90, the air conditioner is in fact likely to
>>> be on all day and night in my house; I don't have sufficient air
>>> conditioning capacity to (at least with reasonable speed) cool my house
>>> down once it gets hot in that kind of weather, but I do have enough to
>>> MAINTAIN a cool temperature if I start with one.
>>
>> A lot of people in that boat on really hot days with a running start I
>> can keep the temperature to 80F or less.
>>
>
> Hard to do much better than that. Few ACs will efficiently cope with more
> than a ten degree Celsius difference between outside and in,
that.
And the differential that can be maintained is determined by how well
the place is insulated. The computer room had waist to ceiling single
glazed steel framed glass for the whole of one of the largest walls.
> though I still know people where I have to put a jumper on when I visit
> because they keep their houses so cold in summer.
and thongs.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 9:24:06 PM6/28/12
to
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:jsiv8s$j7p$4...@dont-email.me...
Howard Brazee
Jun 28, 2012, 9:24:39 PM6/28/12
to
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:41:11 +1000, "Rod Speed"
I'm pretty slight, but I also need to wear socks, even with sandals,
as my feet sweat as well.
If you say it's an "obscenely obese" thing, I'll say that it's a guy
thing.
>> And hot cars make people sweat more than air conditioned living rooms.
>
>Everyone here has air conditioned cars.
>
Which take some time to cool down the cars, especially the part that
you are sitting on.
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
>news:ajopu7pk616l57sfo...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:15:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Leather is almost as bad,
>>>
>>>Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
>>>
>>>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>>>> seats.
>>>
>>>I don't stick to the seats.
>
>> Some people sweat more than other people.
>
>Yep, specially the obscenely obese that you lot have so many of.
My wife is moderately heavy, but she doesn't sweat as much as I do.
>
>
>"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
>news:ajopu7pk616l57sfo...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:15:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Leather is almost as bad,
>>>
>>>Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
>>>
>>>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>>>> seats.
>>>
>>>I don't stick to the seats.
>
>> Some people sweat more than other people.
>
>Yep, specially the obscenely obese that you lot have so many of.
I'm pretty slight, but I also need to wear socks, even with sandals,
as my feet sweat as well.
If you say it's an "obscenely obese" thing, I'll say that it's a guy
thing.
>> And hot cars make people sweat more than air conditioned living rooms.
>
>Everyone here has air conditioned cars.
>
you are sitting on.
Rod Speed
Jun 28, 2012, 9:36:58 PM6/28/12
to
news:fq0qu7ldgv4n1hptp...@4ax.com...
> especially the part that you are sitting on.
Most of the body isnt in contact with that.
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:41:11 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
>>news:ajopu7pk616l57sfo...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:15:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Leather is almost as bad,
>>>>
>>>>Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that
>>>>effect.
>>>>
>>>>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>>>>> seats.
>>>>
>>>>I don't stick to the seats.
>>
>>> Some people sweat more than other people.
>>
>>Yep, specially the obscenely obese that you lot have so many of.
>
> My wife is moderately heavy, but she doesn't sweat as much as I do.
> I'm pretty slight, but I also need to wear socks, even with sandals,
> as my feet sweat as well.
>
> If you say it's an "obscenely obese" thing, I'll say that it's a guy
> thing.
>
>>> And hot cars make people sweat more than air conditioned living rooms.
>>
>>Everyone here has air conditioned cars.
> Which take some time to cool down the cars,
Not long enough to make them sweat much.
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
>>news:ajopu7pk616l57sfo...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:15:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Leather is almost as bad,
>>>>
>>>>Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that
>>>>effect.
>>>>
>>>>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>>>>> seats.
>>>>
>>>>I don't stick to the seats.
>>
>>> Some people sweat more than other people.
>>
>>Yep, specially the obscenely obese that you lot have so many of.
>
> My wife is moderately heavy, but she doesn't sweat as much as I do.
> I'm pretty slight, but I also need to wear socks, even with sandals,
> as my feet sweat as well.
>
> If you say it's an "obscenely obese" thing, I'll say that it's a guy
> thing.
>
>>> And hot cars make people sweat more than air conditioned living rooms.
>>
>>Everyone here has air conditioned cars.
> Which take some time to cool down the cars,
> especially the part that you are sitting on.
Walter Bushell
Jun 28, 2012, 10:12:29 PM6/28/12
to
In article <86bok3s...@zipcon.net>,
Patrick Scheible <k...@zipcon.net> wrote:
> d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>
> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
> >
> > but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> > hydrated,
> >
> >>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
The people who were in the South particularly the deep South were
different people. Those who weren't slaves and couldn't take it moved,
or died. But people still work in outside in the heat.
--
This space unintentionally left blank.
Patrick Scheible <k...@zipcon.net> wrote:
> d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>
> > Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >>And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
> >
> > but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> > hydrated,
> >
> >>whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
> >
> > "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is
> > Bad.
>
> > "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is
> > Bad.
>
> This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
> changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
> south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
> bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
> necessity.
>
> -- Patrick
> changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
> south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
> bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
> necessity.
>
The people who were in the South particularly the deep South were
different people. Those who weren't slaves and couldn't take it moved,
or died. But people still work in outside in the heat.
--
This space unintentionally left blank.
Walter Bushell
Jun 28, 2012, 10:21:58 PM6/28/12
to
In article <nmopu7hh8u4pphtfo...@4ax.com>,
of the car. I had one incident as a passenger when the brakes were
applied without the seat belt I would have bumped my head on the
dashboard.
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:32:27 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
> <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
> >> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is
> >> Bad.
> >
> >That's what seat belts and shoulder harnesses are for (I have yet to
> >have them do me any good in an accident, since I've never had an
> >accident with enough energy to move me. But they've kept me in my seat
> >many times going around corners).
>
> Seat belts, low and tight below the hips also decrease fatigue
> considerably.
And as indicated above sometime enable the driver to maintain control
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:32:27 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
> <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
> >> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is
> >> Bad.
> >
> >That's what seat belts and shoulder harnesses are for (I have yet to
> >have them do me any good in an accident, since I've never had an
> >accident with enough energy to move me. But they've kept me in my seat
> >many times going around corners).
>
> Seat belts, low and tight below the hips also decrease fatigue
> considerably.
of the car. I had one incident as a passenger when the brakes were
applied without the seat belt I would have bumped my head on the
dashboard.
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 10:48:49 PM6/28/12
to
More, since it comes every 61 days. As I've now got solar panels, mine
has gone right down, but many people are suffering. Our premier thinks
everyone is earning $4000 a week like the miners.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 10:50:06 PM6/28/12
to
On 29/06/12 9:21 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:03:58 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> I may have mine on all day if I am in the house, but I don't leave
>> anything running apart from fridges and freezer while I'm out.
>> Electricity is far too expensive.
>
> Fortunately, clocks don't use much electricity.
Not sure what you're getting at there. Most of my clocks run on AA
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:03:58 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> I may have mine on all day if I am in the house, but I don't leave
>> anything running apart from fridges and freezer while I'm out.
>> Electricity is far too expensive.
>
> Fortunately, clocks don't use much electricity.
batteries that last at least a year. I suppose the microwave clock uses
a tiny bit.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 10:52:57 PM6/28/12
to
(Refrigerated? - Should be "refrigerating"). These, like the older type,
require a hole knocking in the wall and wires somewhere in the roof.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 10:58:22 PM6/28/12
to
>> And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> hydrated,
Never had a problem when I lived in the desert. Got a headache once when
>
> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
> hydrated,
we climbed a Mount Augustus - it was cloudy when we set out, so we
didn't carry as much water as we planned. The dog and girl were in tears
by the end.
>
>> whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
What I don't like is that feeling of "I've wet my pants" when you stand
up from a chair. Fun up in the desert - school had plastic chairs and
nylon carpets - lots of static. I could point my finger at one of the
kids and draw an inch long spark. Kids didn't realise I could feel it as
much as them or that they could do it back. Magic. Thank goodness
neither of the above are common occurrences where I live.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 10:59:28 PM6/28/12
to
On 28/06/12 2:09 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote
Hell. From my few visits, it seems to be normal in Sydney. The devil
knows what it's like in Brizzy.
--
Robert Bannister
> David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote
>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
>
>>> And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
>> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping
>> oneself hydrated,
>
> Nope, I don't do anything special in that situation.
>
>>> And 40°C dry heat is still quite pleasant,
>
>> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping
>> oneself hydrated,
>
>
>>> whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
>> "Is". Not "can be".
>
> Wrong again. I have born it fine on more than one occasion.
>>> whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>
>> "Is". Not "can be".
>
Hell. From my few visits, it seems to be normal in Sydney. The devil
knows what it's like in Brizzy.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 11:00:00 PM6/28/12
to
> news:cjrou7ppf9nulhihk...@4ax.com...
>>> didn't
>>> think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
--
Robert Bannister
>> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 13:08:56 +0000 (UTC),
>> mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>>
>>>> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>>> hydrated,
>>>>
>> mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>>
>>>> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>>>> hydrated,
>>>>
>>>>> whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving,
>>>> which is Bad.
>>>
>>> Time to get rid of those vinyl seats. (How old is your car, anyway? I
>>>> which is Bad.
>>>
>>> didn't
>>> think they'd made vinyl seats in several decades.)
>
>> Leather is almost as bad,
>
> Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
>
>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>> seats.
>
> I don't stick to the seats.
Thought you had the air-con on.
>> Leather is almost as bad,
>
> Nope, I have leather upholstery on my armchairs and don't get that effect.
>
>> and costs much more. But it isn't sliding off, it's sticking to the
>> seats.
>
> I don't stick to the seats.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 11:02:52 PM6/28/12
to
>> but requires intimate knowledge of, or experience with, keeping oneself
>> hydrated,
>>
>>> whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>
>> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
>
>> hydrated,
>>
>>> whilst 35°C humid heat can be unbearable.
>>
>> "Is". Not "can be". Plus you slip off the car seat while driving, which is Bad.
>
> This is a good illustration of how what's bearable or not bearable
> changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
> south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
> bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
> necessity.
Absolutely true. Our school classrooms are still mainly un-conditioned
> changes. People did live in Florida, the Gulf Coast, not to mention
> south and southeast Asia before AC was widespread. They obviously did
> bear it. So AC went from nonexistent to a luxury and is now a
> necessity.
apart from in the private schools. I never had it until about ten years
ago, but you quickly get used to it. I wonder if I used to spend extra
time hanging around shopping centres before.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jun 28, 2012, 11:08:18 PM6/28/12
to
>> The only evaporative coolers I've used, you had to fill with water
>> from the garden hose and they rarely lasted more than 2-3 hours, but
>> that was when I lived much farther north, more or less in the desert.
>
> Don’t they have the big evap coolers on the roof there ?
Maybe they do now that mining has taken off again. They were pretty rare
back then, and you mainly saw them farther north. I'm talking about 1972.
--
Robert Bannister
>> from the garden hose and they rarely lasted more than 2-3 hours, but
>> that was when I lived much farther north, more or less in the desert.
>
> Don’t they have the big evap coolers on the roof there ?
Maybe they do now that mining has taken off again. They were pretty rare
back then, and you mainly saw them farther north. I'm talking about 1972.
--
Robert Bannister
David Dyer-Bennet
Jun 28, 2012, 11:25:39 PM6/28/12
to
they were the only air-conditioned places I had access to. Summer of
1969, I think it must have been; while I'd found the computer
interesting all school year, being able to really dive in was neat. AND
being comfortable was wonderful. (Obviously I wasn't "used to" air
conditioning at that point; I'd rarely had any exposure to it, and was
quite skinny too. I'm just not built for high temperatures.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages