Re: What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

[brad]

"Andy Leighton" wrote:

> On Thu, 16 May 2013 10:45:17 -0500, Dave Garland
> <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 5/16/2013 5:47 AM, brad wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Clinton allowed Iraq to say "screw you", despite a treaty or
>>> whatever,
>>> when they kicked our inspectors out of the country, thus setting the
>>> stage
>>> for Iraq, part II.
>>>
>> They didn't kick our inspectors out (not that they cooperated very
>> much with the inspectors). We told the inspectors to leave, right
>> before we attacked.
>
> Also to be fair they weren't "your" inspectors. Unless by "our" you
> mean the UN. But yeah although Iraq wasn't overly forthcoming with
> information, the level of cooperation was reasonable and the UNMOVIC
> team had investigated a large number of sites and put a small number
> of long-distance conventional missiles out of action.

I didn't see anything reasonable about what I saw on TV. Are you saying MSM
(the only kind I watch) staged what I saw?

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 13, 2:03 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

> > What about SO2 and radioactive fly ash from coal plants? Or CO2, which
> > is having devastating effects on the climate already.
>
> And mercury from coal burning which has an infinite half life?

Coal can be converted to coke in sealed ovens which will capture most
of the nasty stuff in the coal; most of which can be sold as raw
chemicals or used as a fuel. (Coke is used in steel mills). Anyway,
despite the cost of the extra step, could they use coke in power
plants to reduce nasty stuff? I think coke burns more efficiently
than coal since it is almost all plain carbon.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 13, 3:23 pm, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:

> Why $45M in Stolen Cash Still Won't Get Rid of Hackable ATM Cardshttp://www.wired.com/business/2013/05/hackable-atm-cards/
>
> By the time the astonishing heist was under way, the difficult work of
> hacking prepaid debit card accounts and stripping the withdrawal limits
> was long done. After that, coding the magnetic stripes on the backs of
> plastic cards with the hacked account numbers was no big deal. Brooklyn
> U.S. Attorney Loretta Lynch said conspirators in the global scheme,
> which netted $45 million from ATMs around the world, were able to use
> gift cards, old hotel keys, expired credit cards -- anything with a
> magnetic stripe on the back.

How were they able to access the bank accounts' main records in the
database to change the withdrawal limits? Doesn't that require a bank
employee to do it?

Are PINs stored in the magstripe? (I hope not!)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#51 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#52 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#53 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

eisenhower's goodbye speech was warning about the MICC, including the
pentagon/airforce had tried to use claims about the "bomber gap" to
justify 20% increase in DOD budget to build massive numbers of
additional B52s. the important thing about U2 was eisenhower was able to
use cia u2 photo recon to debunk the MICC "bomber gap" claims.

roll forward and the newcons/team-b are trying to greatly inflate threat
analysis supporting massive MICC spending. Colby, head of the CIA
wouldn't go along; ford dismisses him and replaces him with somebody
that would go along (bush1; claims that this is significant factor in trend
getting cia analysis to conform with administration politics). later
several of the necon/team-b members show up last decade in bush2
administration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_B

from above:

In 1975, PFIAB members asked CIA Director William Colby to approve the
initiative of producing comparative assessments of the Soviet
threat. Colby refused, stating it was hard "to envisage how an ad hoc
independent group of analysts could prepare a more thorough,
comprehensive assessment of Soviet strategic capabilities than could the
intelligence community."[11] Colby was removed from his position in the
Halloween Massacre; Ford has stated that he, himself, made the decision
alone,[12] but the historiography of the "Halloween Massacre" appears to
support the allegations that Rumsfeld had successfully lobbied for
this.[13]

... snip ...

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> How were they able to access the bank accounts' main records in the
> database to change the withdrawal limits? Doesn't that require a bank
> employee to do it?
>
> Are PINs stored in the magstripe? (I hope not!)

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#37 regulation,bridges,streams
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#38 regulation,bridges,streams


Yes, It's Possible To Steal $45M From ATMs Around The World In Just A
Few Hours
http://consumerist.com/2013/05/10/yes-its-possible-to-steal-45m-from-atms-around-the-world-in-just-a-few-hours/

According to the authorities, hackers worked their way into bank
databases and erased withdrawal limits on pre-paid debit cards and made
up their own access codes. Then that data would be loaded onto any old
plastic card with a magnetic stripe, even a hotel key card could work.

... snip ...

possibly substituting the same PIN for every card ... in feb. they got
$40M in 10hrs with 36,000 transactions (avg. $1111/transaction) ... they
possibly also have to deal with ATM per transaction limits.

Global network of hackers steals $45M from ATMs
http://www.newstimes.com/news/crime/article/Global-network-of-hackers-steals-45M-from-ATMs-4504719.php

from above:

The first federal study of ATM fraud was 30 years ago, when the use of
computers in the financial community was growing rapidly. At the time,
the Bureau of Justice Statistics found nationwide ATM bank loss from
fraud ranged from $70 and $100 million a year.

... snip ...

random unrelated recent email referencing los gatos lab
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#email920722
in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#49 A Complete History Of Mainframe Computing

and past posts mentioning ATM machine work at Los Gatos lab ... as well
as during the early years the magstripe standard was also managed out of
Los Gatos lab
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio6 biometrics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#5 I-P: WHY I LOVE BIOMETRICS BY DOROTHY E. DENNING
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#55 Multics hardware (was Re: "Soul of a New Machine" Computer?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#45 Wanted: the SOUNDS of classic computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#3 Ping: Anne & Lynn Wheeler
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#25 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#26 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#5 Materiel and graft
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#9 Was FORTRAN buggy?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#40 New attacks on the financial PIN processing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#9 Plurals and language confusion
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#14 IBM ATM machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#47 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#7 ATMs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#25 Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#37 Graphics on a Text-Only Display
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#6 ATMs At Risk
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#51 Mainframe Hall of Fame: 17 New Members Added
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009f.html#39 PIN Crackers Nab Holy Grail of Bank Card Security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#25 New standard for encrypting card data in the works; backers include Heartland
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#44 Book on Poughkeepsie
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#55 Book on Poughkeepsie
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#71 Barclays ATMs hit by computer fault
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#75 IBM's 96 column punch card
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009j.html#1 Is it possible to have an alternative payment system without riding on the Card Network platforms?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009j.html#48 Replace the current antiquated credit card system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009m.html#52 Online banking: Which bank is the most secure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009m.html#65 European Banks Warned: Brace for Rise in Cash Machine Fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009m.html#67 European Banks Warned: Brace for Rise in Cash Machine Fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009m.html#74 ATMs by the Numbers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#78 70 Years of ATM Innovation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#7 "Unhackable" Infineon Chip Physically Cracked - PCWorld
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#21 Credit card data security: Who's responsible?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#27 Should the USA Implement EMV?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#61 Handling multicore CPUs; what the competition is thinking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#76 Software that breaks computer hardware( was:IBM 029 service manual )
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#12 taking down the machine - z9 series
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#13 Is the ATM still the banking industry's single greatest innovation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#52 Basic question about CPU instructions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#59 Question: Why Has Debit Grown So Quickly?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#40 The Credit Card Criminals Are Getting Crafty
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#46 The Credit Card Criminals Are Getting Crafty
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#50 The Credit Card Criminals Are Getting Crafty
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#2 Fun with ATM Skimmers, Part III
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#11 Credit cards with a proximity wifi chip can be as safe as walking around with your credit card number on a poster
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#54 Credit cards with a proximity wifi chip can be as safe as walking around with your credit card number on a poster
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#51 Telephones--private networks, Independent companies?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#38 The Conceptual ATM program
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#1 IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#17 "JP MORGAN SAW ITSELF AS ABOVE THE REGULATORS" Do you agree?

[Lawrence Statton]

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> On May 13, 3:23 pm, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
>
>> Why $45M in Stolen Cash Still Won't Get Rid of Hackable ATM Cards

http://www.wired.com/business/2013/05/hackable-atm-cards/

>

> How were they able to access the bank accounts' main records in the
> database to change the withdrawal limits? Doesn't that require a bank
> employee to do it?

Apparently it does not ... since these outsiders were able to make
that change. I'm curious WHICH of the big prepaid-card back-end
providers it was that took the bath.

>
> Are PINs stored in the magstripe? (I hope not!)

If you're in the bank's database changing the withdrawal limit,
setting the PIN seems to be a trivial task.


--
NK1G - Lawrence
echo 'lawre...@abaluon.abaom' | sed s/aba/c/g

[Simon Brown]

"Andrew Swallow" <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:pbmdnSsbo6p_JQnM...@bt.com...
> On 16/05/2013 04:16, Dan Espen wrote:
>> "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> writes:
>>
>>> "Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kn16gs$31v$2...@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 5/15/2013 11:13 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Where you rah-rahing when we invaded a foreign
>>>>> country on trumped up charges?
>>>
>>>> At least Bush *did something*.
>>>
>>> Pity about the immense cost in money, lives,
>>> severe injuries to no useful outcome at all.
>>>
>>> Even when it was not on trumped up charges,
>>> it was STILL at an immense cost in money, lives,
>>> severe injuries to no useful outcome at all except
>>> that it got the Taliban out of power for a few years.
>>
>> One could argue that Afghanistan was trumped up charges,
>> but that's not what I was referring to. It's the other
>> country, the one with no Taliban.
>>
> {snip}
>
> Iraq had oil wells. If a country has oil wells it has to boot lick the
> USA or its dictator dies.

That is not how it happened with Mexico, Brazil or Venezuela.

> President Saddam was hung.

Not because of the oil.

[Simon Brown]

"brad" <no...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kn2d8r$69g$1...@dont-email.me...
> Some people wrote some things:
>
> "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message
> news:748.919T2...@kltpzyxm.invalid...
>> In article <kn16gs$31v$2...@dont-email.me>, Peter...@Yahoo.com

>> (Peter Flass) writes:
>>
>>> On 5/15/2013 11:13 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where you rah-rahing when we invaded a foreign
>>>> country on trumped up charges?
>>>
>>> At least Bush *did something*.
>>

>> "Something must be done. This is something.
>> Therefore, this must be done."
>>
>>> Obama makes Hamlet look like a man of action.
>>
>> If I were in a boat upstream of Niagara falls,
>> even drifting aimlessly would be better than
>> driving straight for the falls.
>
> ISTM there is plenty of credit to go around. Bush screwed us with his
> give-away to big pharma in Medicare Part D.
>
> Obama screwed us with his give-away to the health insurance industry and
> the "Affordable Care Act".
>
> My reading of the Tenth Amendment says health care is not a valid or
> permissible concern of the federal government.

The supremes feel otherwise.

[Simon Brown]

"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:kn2gkt$mjn$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 5/15/2013 9:41 PM, Simon Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:kn16gs$31v$2...@dont-email.me...

>>> On 5/15/2013 11:13 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>>>> Where you rah-rahing when we invaded a foreign
>>>> country on trumped up charges?
>>
>>> At least Bush *did something*.
>>

>> Pity about the immense cost in money, lives,
>> severe injuries to no useful outcome at all.

> There were a lot of useful outcomes.

I'm not convinced with Iraq, even
when the immense cost is ignored.

> The final verdict on a democratic Iraq is still up in the air,

And there is no evidence that it ever will be a viable democracy.

> but they currently have a democratically-elected government

Which gets very little done, essentially because of the
real downsides with any democracy in that situation.

> that at least kills and tortures less.

That may be true of the government, but isn't of the country as a whole.

> One big SOB and his krew of little SOBs are dead.

Very few of them are dead. Yes, Saddam is certainly dead,
but that came at an immense cost in the lives of Iraqis and
of the allies too. His death was not worth anything like that
immense cost.

> We have proven that there were no WMDs, which you can now look at and say
> "see, we were wrong," when, in fact, we didn't know.

Yes, but it cost trillions to prove that, quite apart from
all those corpses. Saddam killed nothing like as many.

> The Iraqui oil industry is now finally beginning to get back to a normal
> status after years of Saddam running it into the ground.

But at a cost of trillions spent by the allies.

That is a completely stupid cost for a result like that.

If their oil industry has been run into the
ground, that is their problem, not ours.

> Al Queda is no longer in control of large parts of the country...

It never was in control of large parts of the country before the invasion.

> I've now read several books by American soldiers and marine who served
> there. Despite the losses, they uniformly say that what we were doing was
> worth while.

It is hardly surprising that none of them are prepared
to admit that it was a complete waste of all those lives,
let alone the trillions of dollars.

There are some that run the same line about Vietnam too.

Yes, WW2 was worth the immense cost in lives
and money, but Vietnam and Iraq were not.

>> Even when it was not on trumped up charges,
>> it was STILL at an immense cost in money, lives,
>> severe injuries to no useful outcome at all except
>> that it got the Taliban out of power for a few years.

> Afghanistan may not be fixable.

I'm sure it isn't.

Which is why it made sense to assist the Northern Alliance
to get rid of the Taliban from government to stop the
terrorist training camps there, but it made no sense at all
to even try to have troops on the ground there.

>>> Obama makes Hamlet look like a man of action.

>> But not as bad as Slick on the inaction field.

> It's beginning to look like the time has past. A year or so ago if we'd
> gotten behind the moderate groups in Syria we could probably have avoided
> a lot of bloodshed and headed off the rise of the islamist factions.

I doubt it given the outcome in Libya.

Assad was never going to put his hands up, he knows what would
happen if he did.

> Now it may not be possible.

I'm not convinced that it ever was.

[Simon Brown]

"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:kn2h98$pr1$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 5/16/2013 3:26 AM, Simon Brown wrote:
>>
>> But Slick did very little about terrorist activity prior to 9/11
>> and basically just ignored Rwanda and hoped it would go
>> away and took a hell of a long time before he did anything
>> about Kosovo etc.

> I don't understand why we got involved in the last one at all.

Essentially because of the complete and utter obscenity with
ethnic cleansing and Sarajevo etc.

> Kosovo is in Europe, don't our European allies theoretically have some
> sort of military forces?

Yes, but they didn�t do a damned thing when Mladic just
just executed all those men and boys at Srebrenica etc.

> The combined military might of France, Germany and the UK, not to mention
> such powerful states as Italy, Spain, and Greece should have been able to
> clobber Serbia without our help.

Yes, but they chose not to. With the outcome we saw with WW2, it is
hardly very surprising that someone eventually decided to do something.

Pity about all the corpses that could have been
avoided if Slick had done something much earlier.

Rwanda is more complicated, it was much harder to
predict that particular complete and utter obscenity.

[Simon Brown]

"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:kn2hjb$rkv$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 5/16/2013 6:25 AM, Andrew Swallow wrote:

>> On 15/05/2013 19:28, Dan Espen wrote:
>>> "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> writes:
>>>

>>>> "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message

>>>> news:770.918T17...@kltpzyxm.invalid...
>>>>> In article <a4adnQWvst4R-Q7M...@bt.com>,
>>>>> am.sw...@btinternet.com (Andrew Swallow) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We have just been through one of the greatest pieces of trickle
>>>>>> down in history. Hundreds of millions were taken out of poverty.
>>>>>> Unfortunately for American and their politicians the workers lived
>>>>>> in China.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately for Americans, perhaps. (Don't forget Canadians too.)
>>>>> I wouldn't go so far as to include the politicians, though; I'm sure
>>>>> they were handsomely rewarded for selling out everyone else.
>>>>
>>>> It had nothing to do with any politicians and so they did not
>>>> get rewarded for it happening.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure tax treatments played a part.
>>>
>>> The idea of politicians not getting their cut just doesn't compute.
>>>
>>
>> The Japanese and Chinese politicians got their cut. The US politicians
>> were on the (job) losing side.
>>
>
> The companies that offshored the jobs made a lot of money,

Yes.

> and probably kicked some of it back to the politicians.

But not because of any action by any of the politicians.

That was just because they had made a lot of money
and chose to spend a small part of that on politicians
to get them to do other stuff like tax holidays for new
WalMarts etc in the US.

> Between the happy Wal-Mart shoppers and the big companies the pols made
> out well enough to counter the votes of the people who got thrown out of
> work.

In fact given that the unemployment rate bottomed at
4.x% with an immense legal and illegal immigration rate
just before the clowns were allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, there weren't even very
many thrown out of work for long.

> Besides, there seems to be a despair of ever being able to fix things,

Yes, but that is what happens with any great depression
or severe recession. They do get fixed eventually tho.

> so a lot of voters don't bother to try.

And don't even bother to vote most of them.

[Charles Richmond]

"Bill Findlay" <yald...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:CDBAB7F2.2E652%yald...@blueyonder.co.uk...
> On 15/05/2013 22:05, in article 87ppws9...@cluon.com, "Lawrence
> Statton"
> <lawr...@abaluon.abaom> wrote:
>
>> JimP. <pongb...@cableone.net> writes:
>>>
>>> Of course, its invalid. Jesus states in the New Testament the He is
>>> there to replace the Old Testament. So, its kinda hard for a Christian
>>> to be following the OT, but some say they are doing so.
>>
>>
>> Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not
>> come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matt 5:17
>>
>> Now, let the argument move to "Does fulfil mean replace? Overlap?
>> Expound upon? Render moot?"
>
> You stopped short of:
>
> "18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
> tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
>
> 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and
> shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
> but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in
> the
> kingdom of heaven."
>
> That seems crystal clear to me. The old law stands, until the end of the
> world. Christianity validates and incorporates the entire batshit
> craziness
> of the OT, root and branch. Jesus said so. (So he would have been
> batshit
> crazy as well, had he actually existed.)
>

Parts of the New Testament *invalidate* parts of the Old Testament.
Compare:

Deuteronomy 19:21

And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth
for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

... with ...

Matthew 5:38-48

King James Version (KJV)

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for
a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite
thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him
have thy cloak also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn
not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and
hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good
to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and
persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he
maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the
just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the
publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not
even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.

--

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

[Simon Brown]

"Dan Espen" <des...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ic7gizo...@home.home...
> "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> writes:
>
>> "Dan Espen" <des...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:icppwrp...@home.home...

>>> "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:kn16gs$31v$2...@dont-email.me...
>>>>> On 5/15/2013 11:13 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Where you rah-rahing when we invaded a foreign
>>>>>> country on trumped up charges?
>>>>
>>>>> At least Bush *did something*.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the immense cost in money, lives,
>>>> severe injuries to no useful outcome at all.
>>>>

>>>> Even when it was not on trumped up charges,
>>>> it was STILL at an immense cost in money, lives,
>>>> severe injuries to no useful outcome at all except
>>>> that it got the Taliban out of power for a few years.
>>

>>> One could argue that Afghanistan was trumped up charges,
>>

>> I don’t agree. It is clear that there were terrorist training
>> camps there, and that those who did 9/11 had trained there.

>>
>>> but that's not what I was referring to. It's
>>> the other country, the one with no Taliban.
>>

>> Sure, that was obvious. I just commented on the
>> other one too that was not trumped up charges.

>>
>>>>> Obama makes Hamlet look like a man of action.
>>
>>>> But not as bad as Slick on the inaction field.
>>

>>> I guess you also think any action is better than the correct action.
>>
>> No I do not.

>>
>> But Slick did very little about terrorist activity prior to 9/11
>> and basically just ignored Rwanda and hoped it would go
>> away and took a hell of a long time before he did anything
>> about Kosovo etc.
>>

>>> I'm sorry Bill Clinton didn't start enough military actions to satisfy.
>>
>> It's not satisfy that matters, its what did need some action.
>>
>>> Bills record:
>>
>>> Attacks on terrorists in Afghanistan
>>
>> Very ineffective ones tho. Nothing like the very effective
>> support for the Northern Alliance that didn’t cost much
>> at all in terms of money, lives, severe injuries. That action
>> did get rid of the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan.
>>
>>> including OBL and Sudan
>>
>> Which didn’t really achieve anything useful at all.
>>
>>> Air attacks on Kosovo
>>
>> But much later than it should have happened.
>>
>>> I guess he just wasn't an achiever.
>>
>> Didn’t do much at all in the way of useful action.
>>
>>> There must have been somewhere
>>> else he could have attacked.
>>
>> Of course there was. Like Kosovo much earlier.
>> And Afghanistan much more effectively too.

> Sure if you don't like president Clinton (and you don't: "slick"),

I do like him more than most other politicians.

I just think he was completely stupid to have Monica
suck his dick and that he took a hell of a long time to
do much at all action wise and didn’t do a damned
thing about some things like Rwanda.

I also call the shrub the shrub. That’s got nothing
to do with who I like. I also call Ike Ike. And Tricky
Dick Tricky Dick. Some of the others like FDR and
LBJ don’t have a nice catchy name, so I use the
initials for them.

> there are limitless fantasies you can indulge in.

That is not a fantasy. We know that the assistance
given to the Northern Alliance with airstrikes was very
effective indeed and cost very little in american lives.

[Charles Richmond]

"Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message

news:2215.918T2...@kltpzyxm.invalid...
> In article <kmua22$rn$1...@dont-email.me>, nume...@aquaporin4.com

> (Charles Richmond) writes:
>
>> "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message

>> news:1380.916T27...@kltpzyxm.invalid...
>>
>>> [snip...] [snip...]
>>> [snip...]
>>>
>>> One of the most common arguments put forth for having a strong economy
>>> is job creation. Yet many large corporations are busily shipping
>>> jobs overseas. Here in Canada, there was recently a lot of noise
>>> made over the Royal Bank doing this (and making the victims train
>>> their replacements, just to add insult to injury). Canda's major
>>> banks are making quarterly profits of over a billion dollars each.
>>
>> Wrong. The "victims" can *refuse* to train their replacements. I
>> know of folks in my area who refused. Of course, they had to quit...
>> but they did *not* have to train their replacements.
>
> I was thinking "that goes without saying" - but for the sake of
> completeness I suppose it should be said. Still, you have to
> admire the gold-plated balls of anyone who proposes such a scheme.
> Or not... "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you
> can with a kind word."
>

Corollary to Murphy's Law:

A Smith & Wesson beats for aces.

[Rod Speed]

"jmfbahciv" <See....@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004DCD...@aca27338.ipt.aol.com...
> Walter Bushell wrote:
>> In article <PM0004DCC...@ac817ee3.ipt.aol.com>,
>> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Businesses grow when they are successful. If you had a business which
>>> was creeping towards a tax threshold, would you stop the growth
>>> or start saving cash to pay for the sudden big incrase of the cost
>>> of doing business? Think about apps or designs or cottage businesses
>>> which sell crafts.
>>
>> Start a subsidiary and spin it off. I'm sure the lawyers can come up
>> with all sorts of ideas.
>
> There is something wrong with this scenario. It's difficult enough
> to be in business with competition; small business doesn't need
> levels of governments hobbling them with insane regs and tax rules.

There is no alternative if you want to tax.

Yes, you can certainly make a case for not taxing any business
at all, and just taxing the end users, but that’s essentially politically
unsellable, so no jurisdiction that has elections does it like that.

[Rod Speed]

"jmfbahciv" <See....@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004DCD...@aca27338.ipt.aol.com...

> John Levine wrote:
>>>> I dunno how many "Mom/Pop" businesses are going to be pulling down a
>>>> million bucks in internet sales.

>>>
>>>Businesses grow when they are successful. If you had a business which
>>>was creeping towards a tax threshold, would you stop the growth
>>>or start saving cash to pay for the sudden big incrase of the cost
>>>of doing business? Think about apps or designs or cottage businesses
>>>which sell crafts.
>>

>> I would plan ahead. It's a million dollars in the trailing year, so
>> you have plenty of time to upgrade your tax collection software to be
>> legal.
>>
>>>So all they have to do is download the software, run it, and pay the
>>>amount which pops up on the screen? I'm beginning to understand why
>>>it cost a million bucks to implement one state. But I still would
>>>like to know why it was so much.
>>
>> Because some states have very complicated rules about what tax applies
>> where. I live in a village at the corner of three counties, with the
>> local zip code covering parts of all three, so sometimes when I order
>> something online and enter my address, it comes back and asks which
>> county I'm in.
>
> I wish I could remember which state the codeing was done for.
>
>>
>> In case you don't remember the last three messages,
>
> I do remember. There is still 50 different sales tax patterns.
>
>>out of state
>> vendors WILL NOT HAVE TO DO THIS because the law requires one rate per
>> state. In-state vendors already deal with it, so there's no change.
>
> Well, it's still a bill and can change into a morass of aligators.
>
>>
>>>> I'm guessing that some cloud-based vendor will spring up to provide
>>>> consolidated service (one set of data into however many returns), but
>>>> who knows what the cost will be.
>>
>> Why do you imagine that such vendors do not already exist?

> Because one company did their own acording to the report.

But that may just be because their system was one hell of a mess
and it made sense to just start over and redo the whole thing and
that may be the reason for that substantial cost.

>> Try out
>> that newfangled Google thing. I poked around and found one that will
>> validate 5000 orders/mo for $119 or 20,000 orders for $289 (that's
>> about 1.5c/order). If you're doing $1M/yr and can't afford that,
>> you're not serious.

> OK. what does validate mean?

Check that the tax is done as the legislation requires it be done.

[Rod Speed]

"jmfbahciv" <See....@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004DCD...@aca27338.ipt.aol.com...

> Walter Bushell wrote:
>> In article <kmua22$rn$1...@dont-email.me>,

>> "Charles Richmond" <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Wrong. The "victims" can *refuse* to train their replacements. I know
>>> of
>>> folks in my area who refused. Of course, they had to quit... but they
>>> did
>>> *not* have to train their replacements.
>>

>> Perhaps the best revenge is to subtly misstrain the replacements.

> That's what happens.

Hardly ever in fact.

> Or the piece of paper which has all the passwords gets eaten.

If they are actually stupid enough to do it like that...

Plenty more have goons with guns show up when they
decide to get rid of their current employees and have
them frog marched out of the place so they can't do
any sabotage on the way out.

[Rod Speed]

"jmfbahciv" <See....@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004DCD...@aca27338.ipt.aol.com...

> Morten Reistad wrote:
>> In article <PM0004DCC...@ac817ee3.ipt.aol.com>,
>> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:

>>>Morten Reistad wrote:
>>>> In article <PM0004DCA...@ac8125f1.ipt.aol.com>,
>>>> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>John Levine wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>> In the EU you pay the local sales tax as long as it is shipped
>>>> within the union. So Malta, Cyprus, Ireland and the Azores have
>>>> become popular mail delivery places.
>>>
>>>Who pays whose sales tax? If I live in Michigan and order something
>>>on the web, the person who owns the web (I'm assumning this) has
>>>to send Michigan DoR the sales tax at Michigan's rates and definitions.
>>>That means that if you sold me something and your company has a revenue
>>>greater than $1Million dollars, you will have to do the paperwork
>>>and pay Michigan the sales tax you have to charge me.
>>>
>>>Do you really not see anything wrong with this picture?
>>
>> Yep. If they DO want to tax internet stuff they need to avoid this.
>> The EU system is the other way around. You pay the sales tax (VAT)
>> of the state where the shipment takes place, to that state.
>>
>> So if I buy a gadget from the Azores (10% VAT(or is it still 8%)) to
>> Sweden (25%) I pay 10%, to the Azores. The low VAT areas are the
>> Azores, Malta, Luxembourg, Ireland. Cyprus used to be among them,
>> but had to increase the VAT.
>
> Yes, that one makes sense. But that's not what our preciious idiots
> a.k.a. Senate are doing. I have not yet read the Senate's proposal.
> The House hasn't started to work on it yet.
>>
>>>>>> Again, anyone who claims that the sales tax bill will require out of
>>>>>> state vendors to apply thousands of different tax rates is ignorant
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> lying. Probably both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you don't believe me, read the fripping bill yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>I'll believe you. So the first rendition is 50(+2?) different
>>>>>sales taxes. Do you think it's not going to be added to
>>>>>if the law works at (estimated) to acquire even 5-10% more
>>>>>revenue for a government?
>>>>
>>>> They will collect, sure. And the US is notorious for making complex
>>>> tax systems, but so far this one seems at least a little bit sane.
>>>
>>>Are you going to send each state the money, too? Or are all web
>>>sites going to suddenly move to Malta?
>>
>> All web SHIPMENT moves to lower VAT places. These "low 4" are isolated
>> islands plus very expensive Luxembourg. So places in the intermediate
>> zone like Estonia, the Czech Republic etc also do a lot of such shipping.

> Are really saying that the physical item is flown to Malta and then flown
> out?

Nope.

> that's how the fUSSR did their business; everything had to go through
> Moscow.

Bullshit.

> It was the most unproductive scheme I've ever seen.

Its pure fantasy, it didn’t happen like that.

>>>I've been reading Onassis' biography. For the first time, I'm
>>>beginning to understand why ships ran under Panamanian
>>>or Liberbian flags. Web site businesess will be doing a
>>>similar thing for the exact same reasons.

>> St Pierre & Miquelon, anyone? Or the Bahamas?

> Nah. If the trend continues to go this way, one of
> the SE Asian countries will become the shipping hub.

Its been like that for more than half a
century now, Singapore and HongKong.

> they're hungry enough and willing to put in the work to attract business.

And they don’t have to bother with a democracy either.

> And they have lots of ports. There are one or two places
> in the African continent but there isn't any area which is
> safe long enough to put in the infrastructure.

That’s not true of the RSA.

[Peter Flass]

On 5/16/2013 11:29 AM, Dan Espen wrote:

> Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> I've now read several books by American soldiers and marine who served
>> there. Despite the losses, they uniformly say that what we were doing
>> was worth while.
>

> Oh, okay, I guess that makes it okay then.
>
> I mean if the foot soldiers that went and killed a bunch of people
> think it was okay, who are we to contradict them?
>

If the guys who are actually risking their lives, not the politicians or
the generals, think they're accomplishing something, they most likely
are. They were out on the streets every day interacting with the
people, they probably had the best idea of what was actually going on of
anyone.

--
Pete

[Simon Brown]

<hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
news:b77de815-1a13-49f6...@y5g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...

> On May 13, 2:03 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> > What about SO2 and radioactive fly ash from coal plants? Or CO2, which
>> > is having devastating effects on the climate already.
>>
>> And mercury from coal burning which has an infinite half life?
>
> Coal can be converted to coke in sealed ovens which will capture most
> of the nasty stuff in the coal; most of which can be sold as raw
> chemicals or used as a fuel. (Coke is used in steel mills). Anyway,
> despite the cost of the extra step, could they use coke in power
> plants to reduce nasty stuff?

Yes. But that approach would be very expensive with
a power station which consumes a lot more coal than
a steel mill does.

> I think coke burns more efficiently than
> coal since it is almost all plain carbon.

Depends on what you mean by efficiently.

Its not as efficient for power generation.

Its much cleaner emissions wise tho.

But that approach is not viable for brown coal
which has no other use except power generation.

[Peter Flass]

On 5/16/2013 11:39 AM, Dave Garland wrote:

> On 5/16/2013 6:52 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>
> The Iraqui oil
>> industry is now finally beginning to get back to a normal status after
>> years of Saddam running it into the ground.
>

> That it ran into the ground while Saddam was in power was largely due to
> the US embargo. So it's sort of disingenuous to say that Saddam ran it
> into the ground.

Saddam could have ended the embargo any time.

>
> Al Queda is no longer in
>> control of large parts of the country...
>

> AQ was never "in control of large parts" of Iraq. Saddam didn't like AQ
> (he didn't like threats to his power) and AQ didn't like Saddam (he was
> secular).

It was after the invasion. We broke it, we had to fix it.

>
> The people now live in religiously-segregated areas, instead of the
> secular mishmash that it was under Saddam. Women are now at risk if
> they travel outside the home without a male escort, and have difficulty
> working outside the home. Birth defects and cancer have skyrocketed
> (the cause may be the widespread use of depleted uranium and white
> phosphorous munitions by the US during the war, though the collapse of
> the health system probably doesn't help matters). And, of course, the
> expense of doing it all, without raising taxes to pay for it was one of
> the factors that flew our economy into the ground.

The Shiites and the Kurds suffered outrageous discrimination. The Marsh
Arabs had the swamps they lived in bulldozed and nearly turned into a
desert. Now it's being restored.

--
Pete

[Simon Brown]

<hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
news:7cf41311-9d72-4537...@i3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

Not in the sense that the PIN can be obtained from
the magstripe. All that's in the magstripe does is
allow an offline ATM to validate the PIN.

[Peter Flass]

On 5/16/2013 11:45 AM, Dave Garland wrote:
> On 5/16/2013 5:47 AM, brad wrote:
>

>> Bill Clinton allowed Iraq to say "screw you", despite a treaty or
>> whatever,
>> when they kicked our inspectors out of the country, thus setting the
>> stage
>> for Iraq, part II.
>>

> They didn't kick our inspectors out (not that they cooperated very much
> with the inspectors). We told the inspectors to leave, right before we
> attacked.
>

They didn't kick them out, they screwed with them so much we had no way
of knowing what was true and what wasn't. Somehow they got tipped off
that the inspectors were going to make an unannounced visit somewhere,
and the satellite images would show the trucks lined up to pull
"something" out before they got there. They were better off not being
there if they weren't able to actually "inspect."

--
Pete

[Simon Brown]

"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:kn3g8d$d1o$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 5/16/2013 11:29 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> I've now read several books by American soldiers and marine who served
>>> there. Despite the losses, they uniformly say that what we were doing
>>> was worth while.
>>
>> Oh, okay, I guess that makes it okay then.
>>
>> I mean if the foot soldiers that went and killed a bunch of people
>> think it was okay, who are we to contradict them?
>>
>
> If the guys who are actually risking their lives, not the politicians or
> the generals, think they're accomplishing something, they most likely are.

We know they have not accomplished anything with
the invasion of Afghanistan, whatever they claim.

Plenty ran the same line with Vietnam too and it is
clear that nothing whatever was accomplished there
except an immense pile of corpses.

> They were out on the streets every day interacting with the people, they
> probably had the best idea of what was actually going on of anyone.

They claimed they did with Vietnam too. It turned out that they did not.

[Simon Brown]

"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:kn3gh2$hcg$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 5/16/2013 11:39 AM, Dave Garland wrote:
>> On 5/16/2013 6:52 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> The Iraqui oil
>>> industry is now finally beginning to get back to a normal status after
>>> years of Saddam running it into the ground.
>>
>> That it ran into the ground while Saddam was in power was largely due to
>> the US embargo. So it's sort of disingenuous to say that Saddam ran it
>> into the ground.

> Saddam could have ended the embargo any time.

But it is hardly surprising that he did not, essentially
because he realised that he could not survive doing that.

In the end he could not survive not doing that either,
but it wasn't so easy to predict that the US would
invade when Bush senior chose not to do that.

>> Al Queda is no longer in
>>> control of large parts of the country...
>>
>> AQ was never "in control of large parts" of Iraq. Saddam didn't like AQ
>> (he didn't like threats to his power) and AQ didn't like Saddam (he was
>> secular).

> It was after the invasion.

Yes, it was one of the results of the invasion.

> We broke it, we had to fix it.

But it was never fixed.

Vietnam wasn't either.

Afghanistan won't be either.

>> The people now live in religiously-segregated areas, instead of the
>> secular mishmash that it was under Saddam. Women are now at risk if
>> they travel outside the home without a male escort, and have difficulty
>> working outside the home. Birth defects and cancer have skyrocketed
>> (the cause may be the widespread use of depleted uranium and white
>> phosphorous munitions by the US during the war, though the collapse of
>> the health system probably doesn't help matters). And, of course, the
>> expense of doing it all, without raising taxes to pay for it was one of
>> the factors that flew our economy into the ground.

> The Shiites and the Kurds suffered outrageous discrimination.

Yes.

> The Marsh Arabs had the swamps they lived in bulldozed and nearly turned
> into a desert. Now it's being restored.

And it remains to be seen how viable that is in the long term.

Yes, the Kurds particularly are much better off than they were
under Saddam, but is that worth the immense cost in money
and lives and serious injuries ? I don't believe it is myself.

With Afghanistan in spades where there is no real useful
result at all except with the elimination of the terrorist
training camps which were eliminated by assisting the
Northern Alliance with airstrikes very early on.

There was no point in the west having troops on the ground there.

[JimP.]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 22:50:20 -0400, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net>

wrote:
>Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> writes:
>

>> On 5/15/2013 6:49 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>> Jesus never says, "no I'm not talking about that old evil god,
>>> this is a new one, much nicer".
>>
>> That was the Gnostics, but it's a but disconcerting because it
>> explains so much.
>
>Made me refresh my Gnostic data bank.
>That's good.
>
>Well the Gnostics seem to explain why the Old Testament God was evil,
>He was one of many sub gods, including Satan.
>
>They look at Jesus as another sub god
>with various views as to how that happened.
>
>Interesting beliefs but pretty hard to match up to current Christian
>doctrine.
>
>Gnostics beliefs explain some things, but aren't consistent to current
>beliefs. The were rejected by early Christians as early as 264.
>
>Very interesting.

Yeah, rejected by purging them through execution in Europe. Along with
others who were purged from Christianity via physical violence.

JimP.
--
Brushing aside the thorns so I can see the stars.
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://dice.drivein-jim.net/ my dice collection
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ Aug 26, 2009

[John Levine]

>Start a subsidiary and spin it off. I'm sure the lawyers can come up
>with all sorts of ideas.

That seems like an awful lot of effort to avoid 2.5c/order to add
the tax.

--
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

[Dan Espen]

Every time I want someone with international political insight and high
moral views, I consult a hired killer. Seriously, this whole line of
reasoning is absurd. Might have well consulted the Pope.

--
Dan Espen

[Dan Espen]

I predicted hand waving and here it is.

Contradictions do not change the nature of the content.
It's there plain enough, chosen people, mass killings, sacrifices for
appeasement, genocide, baby killing, fits of jealousy.

--
Dan Espen

[Bill Findlay]

On 16/05/2013 21:12, in article kn3ecs$5lm$1...@dont-email.me, "Charles

Of course. Logical consistency has never been religion's strong point.
--
Bill Findlay
with blueyonder.co.uk;
use surname & forename;

[Shmuel Metz]

In <avd0aq...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/14/2013
at 06:21 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:

>I don't see that makes any sense, particularly if it stops the use
>of brown coal which has no other use from being used for power
>generation.

Chemical feed stock.

As for burning it, how many people are you willing to kill in order to
avoid nuclear power?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org

[Shmuel Metz]

In <proto-09F276....@news.panix.com>, on 05/14/2013
at 12:54 AM, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> said:

>Anyway the three faith have a very different concepts of the deity
>so calling it the same, seems like a strained interpretation.

How are the Jewish and Islamic views of the deity not similar? Compare
your quote from the Quran with, e.g., Adon Olam
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adon_olam>.

[sdrat]

"Shmuel (Seymour J.)Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in
message news:5195817a$1$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...

> In <avd0aq...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/14/2013
> at 06:21 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:
>
>>I don't see that makes any sense, particularly if it stops the use
>>of brown coal which has no other use from being used for power
>>generation.

> Chemical feed stock.

Normal coal is much better chemical feed stock.

So is coal seam gas.

> As for burning it, how many people are you
> willing to kill in order to avoid nuclear power?

I don�t want to avoid nuclear power.

I think it is the best way to do power generation.

And I think its much better to use coal as a chemical
feed stock to produce liquid hydrocarbon fuels for use
in cars because of the much higher energy density than
anything that you can produce from a nuclear power
station that can be used in cars like hydrogen.

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

"Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> writes:
> Not in the sense that the PIN can be obtained from
> the magstripe. All that's in the magstripe does is
> allow an offline ATM to validate the PIN.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#37 regulation,bridges,streams
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#38 regulation,bridges,streams
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#55 banking fraud; regulation,bridges,streams

3624
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3624

from above:

The IBM 3624 was a late 1970s second-generation automatic teller machine
(ATM), a successor to the IBM 3614. Designed at the IBM Los Gatos lab,
the IBM 3624, along with the later IBM 4732 model, was manufactured at
IBM facilities in Charlotte, North Carolina and Havant, England until
all operations were sold to Diebold, tied to the formation of the
InterBold partnership between IBM and Diebold.

... and ...

One of the most lasting features introduced with the 3624 was the IBM
3624 PIN block format used in transmission of an encrypted personal
identification number (PIN). The PIN functions, with an early commercial
encryption using the DES algorithm, were implemented in two modules -
BQKPERS and BQKCIPH - and their export controlled under the US export
munitions rules.

... snip ...

recent mention of DES
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#31 The Vindication of Barb
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#42 The Vindication of Barb

Personal identification number
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identification_number

from above:

IBM 3624 + offset

To allow user selectable PINs it is possible to store a PIN offset
value. The offset is found by subtracting natural PIN from the customer
selected PIN using modulo 10.[7] For example, if the natural PIN is
1234, and the user wishes to have a PIN of 2345, the offset is 1111.

The offset can be stored either on the card track data,[8] or in a
database at the card issuer.

To validate the PIN, the issuing bank calculates the natural PIN as in
the above method, then adds the offset and compares this value to the
entered PIN.

... and ...

In 2002 two PhD students at Cambridge University, Piotr Zielinski and
Mike Bond, discovered a security flaw in the PIN generation system of
the IBM 3624, which was duplicated in most later hardware. Known as the
decimalization table attack, the flaw would allow someone who has access
to a bank's computer system to determine the PIN for an ATM card in an
average of 15 guesses.

... snip ...

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

[Shmuel Metz]

In <PM0004DCA...@ac8125f1.ipt.aol.com>, on 05/14/2013
at 02:11 PM, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> said:

>I'm not even trying to say it was an either/or. Also note that
>magtapes are unit record devices in that the magtape cannot be
>"shared" with two or more users doing different things.

That's not how IBM defined "unit record" and I doubt that DEC defined
it that way either.

>Magtapes uscked so moving files from one system to another was an
>exercise in wrestling.

Maybe at DEC. I certainly had no trouble moving tape between IBM and
CDC.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <icbo8dt...@home.home>, on 05/14/2013
at 08:16 PM, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> said:

>Oh, how much I love IPCS.

Well, you do need to read the manuals, except for what you can get
from HELP, but it really is convenient.

>Got a bunch of tape recalls just getting to the IPCS menu.

That has to do with your installation's migration policies, not with
IPCS per se. More to the point, if you are using IPCS within REXX
code, why bother with the panels?

>So, it's not CURRENT, its ACTIVE.

You asked abouit selecting the current address space; that is CURRENT.
See
<http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r11/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.zos.r11.ieac700/selexit.htm>

Selecting the source as storage rather than a dataset is a separate
issue, and the keyword is any of ACTIVE,MAIN or STORAGE ; see
<http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r11/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.zos.r11.ieac500/setdef.htm>.

>So, it's not CURRENT, its ACTIVE.

It's both. Of course, for LPAMAP it doesn't matter what address space
you select.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <proto-4A4B5B....@news.panix.com>, on 05/15/2013
at 08:37 AM, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> said:

>Perhaps the taxes for roads should fall on real estate as
>transportation enhances real estate values.

Sure, but that's still a way "to abscond people's wealth." (sic) If
you want the road, someone has to pay for it, and the alternative to a
toll is a tax.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <proto-DF07AA....@news.panix.com>, on 05/15/2013
at 08:38 AM, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> said:

>In article <519143e8$37$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>,
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid>
> wrote:

>> In <avcp7t...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/14/2013
>> at 04:20 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:
>>
>> >> But it seems they don't really have a good solution in place on
>> >> handling nuclear waste,
>>
>> >Yes they do, its reprocessed into more nuke fuel.
>>
>> Pu239 isn't the only isotope of concern; there are also, e.g., fission
>> byproducts.
>>
>> >> some of which is very dangerous for many years.
>> >Just as true of what's dug up to use in the nuke in the first place.
>>
>> No. the half life of U238 is extremely long.

>It's more of a chemical poison as a heavy metal.

Yes, burning all of the fuel eliminates the issue of Pu239 poisoning,
but it still leaves the issue of the daughter nuclides from fission.
You'd still be looking at something more dangerous than the original
Uranium ore.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <PM0004DCA...@ac8125f1.ipt.aol.com>, on 05/14/2013
at 02:11 PM, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> said:

>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
>> In <PM0004DC8...@ac817919.ipt.aol.com>, on 05/12/2013
>> at 02:47 PM, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> said:
>>
>>>Where did I say that?
>>
>> Sheesh! Not only did you write "IBM's computing was based on fooling
>> with big data bases", but you quoted that in the very article where
>> yuou asked where you said it.
>>
>>>Their culture was card deck based
>>
>> Make up your mind; a card deck mentality is the opposite of a data
>> base mentality.
>>
>No, it's not. Cards and magtapes are both unit record.

Maybe at DEC; certainly not in the real worl. More to the point,
neither is data base.

[sdrat]

"Shmuel (Seymour J.)Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in

message news:51958a52$11$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...

> In <proto-DF07AA....@news.panix.com>, on 05/15/2013
> at 08:38 AM, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> said:
>
>>In article <519143e8$37$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>,
>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid>
>> wrote:
>
>>> In <avcp7t...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/14/2013
>>> at 04:20 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:
>>>
>>> >> But it seems they don't really have a good solution in place on
>>> >> handling nuclear waste,
>>>
>>> >Yes they do, its reprocessed into more nuke fuel.
>>>
>>> Pu239 isn't the only isotope of concern; there are also, e.g., fission
>>> byproducts.
>>>
>>> >> some of which is very dangerous for many years.
>>> >Just as true of what's dug up to use in the nuke in the first place.
>>>
>>> No. the half life of U238 is extremely long.
>
>>It's more of a chemical poison as a heavy metal.
>
> Yes, burning all of the fuel eliminates the issue of Pu239 poisoning,
> but it still leaves the issue of the daughter nuclides from fission.
> You'd still be looking at something more dangerous than the original
> Uranium ore.

Not with the best of the reprocessing reactors
and not with the thorium system either.

[ma...@mail.com]

Not mentioned much, the US retains one of the largest military bases
in the world in Bagdad. The present Iraqi governemnt is Shia based,
resented in the Sunni areas, (generlly the West and North). The oil
industry is in the hands of multinationals, basically, the US with
token outsiders. (One of the suspeccted reasons for the war was that
Saddam was selling oil without using dollars).

According to some of Cheneys recent remarks, Dick was basically in
charge, with GWB nodding agreement as Dick made plans)>(analogy with
Ludendorff-Hindenburg in WW1). The elections were basically dodgy,
former Baath(Saddam) members were not allowed to go fforward.


--
Greymaus

[Andy Leighton]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 11:34:47 -0500, brad <no...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Andy Leighton" wrote:

>
>> On Thu, 16 May 2013 10:45:17 -0500, Dave Garland
>> <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/16/2013 5:47 AM, brad wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill Clinton allowed Iraq to say "screw you", despite a treaty or
>>>> whatever,
>>>> when they kicked our inspectors out of the country, thus setting the
>>>> stage
>>>> for Iraq, part II.
>>>>
>>> They didn't kick our inspectors out (not that they cooperated very
>>> much with the inspectors). We told the inspectors to leave, right
>>> before we attacked.
>>

>> Also to be fair they weren't "your" inspectors. Unless by "our" you
>> mean the UN. But yeah although Iraq wasn't overly forthcoming with
>> information, the level of cooperation was reasonable and the UNMOVIC
>> team had investigated a large number of sites and put a small number
>> of long-distance conventional missiles out of action.
>
> I didn't see anything reasonable about what I saw on TV. Are you saying MSM
> (the only kind I watch) staged what I saw?

Well inspection of over 700 sites. A dozen or so long range and rather
more medium range missiles were decommissioned. Sure at times Iraq
dragged their feet. At times they outright obstructed the inspectors.
It is easy to pick the times when they were non-compliant and say "look
they are bad" - however that is cherry picking. ISTR that at the time
things were moving back to a better relationship between UNMOVIC and
Iraq. Blix certainly thought so - and he was the man on the ground.

--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

[Seebs]

On 2013-05-14, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnkp3dt5.dcb...@leptop.lan>,
> Seebs <usenet...@seebs.net> wrote:
>> There's also the thing where a fair number of members of the various
>> Abrahamic faiths believe that the other two are also worshipping the same
>> deity, but are doing so incorrectly in some way. This is also not an
>> ontological denial, I don't think.

> Anyway the three faith have a very different concepts of the deity so
> calling it the same, seems like a strained interpretation.

There is a hefty philosophical question here: Identity and attributes.
Consider James Tiptree, Jr., the science fiction writer. Now, say I read
a couple of his stories, and I think they're awesome, and when someone asks
me to name my favorite male and female science fiction writers, I put
him down under "male".

Someone else, who happens to have read up on things a bit more, puts James
Tiptree, Jr., down as his favorite *female* science fiction author.

Obviously, since men and women are distinct categories, we aren't talking
about the same author.

Obviously, since only one person wrote "Houston, Houston, do you read?",
we are talking about the same author.

So, are we talking about different authors, or is one of us mistaken about
the *qualities* of a single author that we are both talking about?

If two people agree that there is an entity which created all things seen
and unseen, and which spoke to Abraham and made a deal with him, and all
sorts of stuff, and then one says "... and then this entity incarnated and
visited us" and the other says "... and this entity has never incarnated
in our world", does that mean they are talking about different entities,
or that they disagree about the attributes of a single entity?

People can disagree on this. I have known someone who thought that Orthodox
Jews and Protestant Christians worshipped the same deity, but that other
Jews, and Catholics, and Muslims didn't worship that deity. It's certainly
not a completely settled question. But! It's certainly not generally the
case that the major religions absolutely deny each others' reality or
claims about God entirely. (Heck, last I checked, the official Catholic
teaching is that all three Abrahamic faiths worship the same deity, although
I know Catholics who reject that claim.)

-s
--
Copyright 2013, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet...@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
Autism Speaks does not speak for me. http://http://autisticadvocacy.org/
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.

[Seebs]

On 2013-05-16, Bill Findlay <yald...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 15/05/2013 22:05, in article 87ppws9...@cluon.com, "Lawrence Statton"
><lawr...@abaluon.abaom> wrote:
>> Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not
>> come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matt 5:17
>>
>> Now, let the argument move to "Does fulfil mean replace? Overlap?
>> Expound upon? Render moot?"

> You stopped short of:
>
> "18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
> tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

> 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and
> shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
> but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the
> kingdom of heaven."

> That seems crystal clear to me.

If something in a religious text seems "crystal clear", you are probably
overlooking a gimmick.

> The old law stands, until the end of the
> world.

Well, hang on. Until the end of the world? Or until some other point?
See also Luke 24:44, which talks about "all things" being fulfilled, but
further qualifies the things, and/or John 19:23-34 or so. It is not
uncommon for people to argue that somewhere right around here is where
"all" became fulfilled.

Right or wrong? Heck if I know. But it's common enough that it's not
unreasonable for Christians to claim that they don't think they are under
OT law, and indeed, they've been doing so since the first century or so.

[Seebs]

On 2013-05-16, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> wrote:
> The rest of them range from child rapists, to charlatans, to hospital
> vampires.

Wow. Three or four billion people, and all of them are horrible.

> There may even be a few in the business for actual lofty ideals.
> A few, like 2 or 3.

Oh, wait. All but two or three of them.

> Nope, I knew too many of them and my eyes aren't closed.

So, out of those few billion people, how many exactly have you met and
talked to? What are your possible sampling or identification biases? For
instance, how would you *know* what religion most people are, if they
haven't stopped to actively push it at you?

Pushy people tend to be jerks.

> How do you like that "Dollar Creflo" guy.
> Send him money and get rich.
> First time I heard it, it wouldn't process.
> People actually think it works.

I used to hang around on religious discussion boards. My impression is
that the people who are convinced by that are a couple-few percent of the
religious population, if that. It's easy for them to only meet other
like-minded people, or at least to only talk to other like-minded people
about their religion. But I don't think they're exactly a representative
sample.

[Seebs]

On 2013-05-15, Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 5/15/2013 11:13 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Where you rah-rahing when we invaded a foreign
>> country on trumped up charges?

> At least Bush *did something*. Obama makes Hamlet look like a man of
> action.

We must do something! This is something! We must do this!

[Peter Flass]

I think very few thought we were accomplishing anything in Vietnam,
especially towards the end. As I say, the bigwigs kept hollering
"progress," but the grunts usually didn't have anything good to say.
Where local progress was made the VC would come in and kill the village
leaders and terrify the rest.

--
Pete

[Andrew Swallow]

On 16/05/2013 20:37, Simon Brown wrote:
>
>
> "Andrew Swallow" <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:pbmdnSsbo6p_JQnM...@bt.com...
>> On 16/05/2013 04:16, Dan Espen wrote:

>>> "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:kn16gs$31v$2...@dont-email.me...

>>>>> On 5/15/2013 11:13 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Where you rah-rahing when we invaded a foreign
>>>>>> country on trumped up charges?
>>>>
>>>>> At least Bush *did something*.
>>>>

>>>> Pity about the immense cost in money, lives,
>>>> severe injuries to no useful outcome at all.
>>>>
>>>> Even when it was not on trumped up charges,
>>>> it was STILL at an immense cost in money, lives,
>>>> severe injuries to no useful outcome at all except
>>>> that it got the Taliban out of power for a few years.
>>>
>>> One could argue that Afghanistan was trumped up charges,
>>> but that's not what I was referring to. It's the other
>>> country, the one with no Taliban.
>>>
>> {snip}
>>
>> Iraq had oil wells. If a country has oil wells it has to boot lick
>> the USA or its dictator dies.
>
> That is not how it happened with Mexico, Brazil or Venezuela.
>

They keep selling oil.

>> President Saddam was hung.
>
> Not because of the oil.
>
>

Official reasons and reality can be different.

Andrew Swallow

[Peter Flass]

On 5/16/2013 5:05 PM, Simon Brown wrote:
>
>
> "Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:kn3gh2$hcg$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 5/16/2013 11:39 AM, Dave Garland wrote:
>
>> Saddam could have ended the embargo any time.
>
> But it is hardly surprising that he did not, essentially
> because he realised that he could not survive doing that.

There was a long period before the war where he could have hopped on a
plane, escaped to some country that wouldn't extradite him and enjoyed
at least a large part of the hidden billions he had stashed away. I
think we would have been happy enough to see him go that we wouldn't
have pursued him too hard. He wanted power more than anything, in the
end more than his life. It's sad, too, because he could have saved Iraq
from a whole raft of problems.

--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

On 5/16/2013 9:12 PM, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> In <PM0004DCA...@ac8125f1.ipt.aol.com>, on 05/14/2013
> at 02:11 PM, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> said:
>
>> I'm not even trying to say it was an either/or. Also note that
>> magtapes are unit record devices in that the magtape cannot be
>> "shared" with two or more users doing different things.
>
> That's not how IBM defined "unit record" and I doubt that DEC defined
> it that way either.
>
>> Magtapes uscked so moving files from one system to another was an
>> exercise in wrestling.
>
> Maybe at DEC. I certainly had no trouble moving tape between IBM and
> CDC.
>

Tape was *the* portable storage media. 9-track, 1600bpi unlabelled,
blocked 80x800, character data only. Your only problem was deciding
whether to record in ASCII or EBCDIC.

--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

On 5/16/2013 9:35 PM, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> In <icbo8dt...@home.home>, on 05/14/2013
> at 08:16 PM, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> said:
>
>> Oh, how much I love IPCS.
>
> Well, you do need to read the manuals, except for what you can get
> from HELP, but it really is convenient.
>
>> Got a bunch of tape recalls just getting to the IPCS menu.
>
> That has to do with your installation's migration policies, not with
> IPCS per se. More to the point, if you are using IPCS within REXX
> code, why bother with the panels?

I put the IPCS control files in a separate management class that wasn't
migrated. The control files aren't very big. The dumps themselves are
usually not worth specifying as NOMIG, since you typically scan them and
are done in a short time.

--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

Yes, "mistakes were made." Similar to the Nazis or the Communists you
had to belong to the party in order to get any kind of job.
De-Baathification resulted in a lot of low-level bureaucrats and even
college professors losing their jobs when their expertise would have
been most useful.


--
Pete

[jmfbahciv]

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:

> In <PM0004DCA...@ac8125f1.ipt.aol.com>, on 05/14/2013
> at 02:11 PM, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> said:
>
>>I'm not even trying to say it was an either/or. Also note that
>>magtapes are unit record devices in that the magtape cannot be
>>"shared" with two or more users doing different things.
>
> That's not how IBM defined "unit record" and I doubt that DEC defined
> it that way either.
>
>>Magtapes uscked so moving files from one system to another was an
>>exercise in wrestling.
>
> Maybe at DEC. I certainly had no trouble moving tape between IBM and
> CDC.

And you weren't working on the OS development systems which were
running code that had never been before.

/BAH

[jmfbahciv]

Peter Flass wrote:

> On 5/16/2013 11:45 AM, Dave Garland wrote:
>> On 5/16/2013 5:47 AM, brad wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Clinton allowed Iraq to say "screw you", despite a treaty or
>>> whatever,
>>> when they kicked our inspectors out of the country, thus setting the
>>> stage
>>> for Iraq, part II.
>>>
>> They didn't kick our inspectors out (not that they cooperated very much
>> with the inspectors). We told the inspectors to leave, right before we
>> attacked.
>>
>

> They didn't kick them out, they screwed with them so much we had no way
> of knowing what was true and what wasn't. Somehow they got tipped off
> that the inspectors were going to make an unannounced visit somewhere,
> and the satellite images would show the trucks lined up to pull
> "something" out before they got there. They were better off not being
> there if they weren't able to actually "inspect."
>
Right. When the inspectors planned to examine documentation, there
wasn't a scrap of paper left in the building they had scheeduled
to visit. I don't know why people forget things like this.

/BAH

[jmfbahciv]

Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> writes:
>>John Levine wrote:
>
>>>out of state
>>> vendors WILL NOT HAVE TO DO THIS because the law requires one rate per
>>> state. In-state vendors already deal with it, so there's no change.
>>
>>Well, it's still a bill and can change into a morass of aligators.
>
> And "the world can end tomorrow". But it is highly unlikely.

It's already a bad bill; do you really believe that the House
will improve it?

>
>>
>>>
>>>>> I'm guessing that some cloud-based vendor will spring up to provide
>>>>> consolidated service (one set of data into however many returns), but
>>>>> who knows what the cost will be.
>>>
>>> Why do you imagine that such vendors do not already exist?
>>
>>Because one company did their own acording to the report.
>
> But you can neither tell us which company, nor who wrote the report?

I was half asleep. I cannot remember the name of the company. I do
remember the million dollars for implementing one state's sales tax.
Taht woke me up. and I started trying code it in my head to try
to figure out why it cost so much.

/BAH

[Bill Findlay]

On 17/05/2013 09:17, in article slrnkpbpjg.4gd...@leptop.lan,

It is entirely unreasonable, but that never deterred the devout.

--
Bill Findlay
with blueyonder.co.uk;
use surname & forename;

[Dan Espen]

Hmm, I use IPCS every few months.
Lot's of people defeat HSM though various schemes, but it never seemed
worth it to me. Our NOMIG classes aren't meant for casual use.

Maybe I'm confused about what it's doing, I have 2 datasets:

MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR.DATA MIGRAT2
MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR.INDEX MIGRAT2

and I get this when I log on:

Allocating new IPCS dump directory: 'MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR'
IGD17100I UNEXPECTED CATALOG ERROR FOR DATA SET
MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR
RETURN CODE IS 8 REASON CODE IS 52 IGG0CLEM
IGD17219I UNABLE TO CONTINUE DEFINE OF DATA SET
MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR
IDC3013I DUPLICATE DATA SET NAME+
IDC0014I LASTCC=12
IDC3009I ** VSAM CATALOG RETURN CODE IS 8 - REASON CODE IS IGG0CLEM-52
IKJ56228I DATA SET MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR NOT IN CATALOG OR CATALOG CAN NOT BE ACCESSED
IKJ56228I DATA SET MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR NOT IN CATALOG OR CATALOG CAN NOT BE ACCESSED
IKJ56701I MISSING DATA SET NAME+
IKJ56701I MISSING NAME OF DATA SET TO BE ALLOCATED
Dump directory name 'MYID.DDIR' will be used
ALLOCATE FILE(IPCSDDIR) REUSE DSNAME('MYID.DDIR') SHR /* @P1C*/
Dump directory 'MYID.DDIR' allocated to FILE(IPCSDDIR)
BLS21110I CISIZE(18K) is less than 24K. It may degrade IPCS performance

Those 2 datasets don't recall says they're not backed up.
So far tried to uncatalog and delete, neither works.
Nice.

--
Dan Espen

[Dan Espen]

No paper? How dare he, invade.

I don't know why you think your mental processes are superior to
everyone else when faced with daily proof that they aren't.

--
Dan Espen

[Dan Espen]

Well, it's damn simple.
So you SHOULD have been able to figure out that 1M was a bald faced lie.

I don't know why people can't see things like this.

--
Dan Espen

[Dan Espen]

Seebs <usenet...@seebs.net> writes:

> On 2013-05-16, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> The rest of them range from child rapists, to charlatans, to hospital
>> vampires.
>
> Wow. Three or four billion people, and all of them are horrible.
>
>> There may even be a few in the business for actual lofty ideals.
>> A few, like 2 or 3.
>
> Oh, wait. All but two or three of them.
>
>> Nope, I knew too many of them and my eyes aren't closed.
>
> So, out of those few billion people, how many exactly have you met and
> talked to? What are your possible sampling or identification biases? For
> instance, how would you *know* what religion most people are, if they
> haven't stopped to actively push it at you?
>
> Pushy people tend to be jerks.
>
>> How do you like that "Dollar Creflo" guy.
>> Send him money and get rich.
>> First time I heard it, it wouldn't process.
>> People actually think it works.
>
> I used to hang around on religious discussion boards. My impression is
> that the people who are convinced by that are a couple-few percent of the
> religious population, if that. It's easy for them to only meet other
> like-minded people, or at least to only talk to other like-minded people
> about their religion. But I don't think they're exactly a representative
> sample.

Should have been clear I was referring to the people making a living out
of their religion. That's nothing like a billion people.

How should you have known?

The key phrase is "child rapists, to charlatans, to hospital vampires".

We all know who these people are.

--
Dan Espen

[Scott Lurndal]

I was, and I had no trouble moving data on tape between IBM and Burroughs, or later
between a VAX and Burroughs systems. Note that the VAX was ASCII and the Burroughs
was EBCDIC, yet I was able to move source files between them easily on 9-track tapes.

In any case, it sounds like your OS development systems were running broken
code - that doesn't make it the tapes fault.

scott

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> writes:
> There was a long period before the war where he could have hopped on a
> plane, escaped to some country that wouldn't extradite him and enjoyed
> at least a large part of the hidden billions he had stashed away. I
> think we would have been happy enough to see him go that we wouldn't
> have pursued him too hard. He wanted power more than anything, in the
> end more than his life. It's sad, too, because he could have saved
> Iraq from a whole raft of problems.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#51 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#52 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#53 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#54 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

note that he was heavily supported by past administrations
... especially during the iraq/iran war ... and he apparently thot that
he could go into kuwait with impunity.

one account has sat. photo recon showing iraq marshaling forces for the
kuwait invasion, the white house was notified ... and the administration
responded by saying that iraq wouldn't do any such thing and the analyst
raising the alarm was discredited. it wasn't until the same analyst
raised the alarm that forces were being marshaled on the saudi border
that things got moving.

lots of the details of the US administration support for Iraq during the
80s were scheduled to be released in 2001 (under Presidential Records
Act) ... then the new president signs an executive order keeping them
classified
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#53 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?

other recent posts/threads mentioning Iraq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#16 A Matter of Mindset: Iraq, Sequestration and the U.S. Army
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#28 A Matter of Mindset: Iraq, Sequestration and the U.S. Army
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#45 A Matter of Mindset: Iraq, Sequestration and the U.S. Army
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#86 A Matter of Mindset: Iraq, Sequestration and the U.S. Army
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#30 A Matter of Mindset: Iraq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#5 Lessons Learned from the Iraq War

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <ly...@garlic.com> writes:
> one account has sat. photo recon showing iraq marshaling forces for the
> kuwait invasion, the white house was notified ... and the administration
> responded by saying that iraq wouldn't do any such thing and the analyst
> raising the alarm was discredited. it wasn't until the same analyst
> raised the alarm that forces were being marshaled on the saudi border
> that things got moving.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#58 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

note that Boyd's Desert Storm plan had Iraqi army captured and disarmed
... but right at the end, they stopped and the Republican Guard was
allowed to escape.

since then there has been various comments attributing the
administration bowing to saudi pressure to let the Republican Guard
escape.

since desert storm was more preemptive action to prevent invasion of
saudi arabia ... that seems to be unlikely. it is much more likely that
there are lots of interests in both saudi arabia and iraq ... and
desert storm was more to keep them from battling each other.

misc. past posts & web references mentioning Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 15, 8:37 am, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

> Perhaps the taxes for roads should fall on real estate as
> transportation enhances real estate values. For example the subway
> system in NYC is absolutely necessary to support he high value of
> Manhattan real estate.

Interestingly, the subway was originally expanded to reduce housing
prices. Circa 1910 an enormous number of immigrants were crowded into
a few places with social problems spreading as a result. The city's
fathers realized something had to be done and approved a big expansion
of the subway system. This allowed cheap transportation for the
workers to new areas where housing was much cheaper and thus much less
overcrowded.

There are old photos of subway lines passing through farms in
undeveloped sections.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 15, 11:19 am, Stan Barr <pla...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> Or as someoen once said "There is only one God. All they're arguing
> about is who has the franchise here on Earth."

My impression is that today everyday people are much less concerned
about religion's "franchise" than they were a generation ago; people
are far more accepting of other religions. Intermarriage is far more
accepted. Many of the old prejudices between religions are gone.

An exception is the 'fundametnalist' groups of all religions; they
believe theirs is the _only_ valid religion and everyone else is a
heretic. What's curious is that theyr'e often so passionate that only
their sub-sect is the right one and other sub-sects of the same
religion are wrong. For instance, the Shitte and Suni Islamic groups.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 15, 2:19 pm, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
> Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> writes:
> > Real estate taxes do pay for roads.
>
> > Around here we have municipal roads, county roads, toll roads and
> > interstate.
>
> there has been lots of stuff about the states having diverted road use
> taxes from highway trust funds to the general fund and used for other
> purposes. then when it comes time to do road repair and other stuff
> ... then they have lots of publicity about having to raise taxes for
> road work.

But an awful lot of general fund resources have been used to pay for
the construction, maintenance, and operation of major highways.

Don't forget highways require considerable public safety costs to deal
with accidents, and those costs are almost always paid for general
taxes, not road taxes.

Also, highway bonds are usually government backed and have low
interest rates as opposed to private sector bonds.

When a road is expanded, the land used often comes off the tax base,
forcing a tax hike. The benefits do not necessarily accrue to those
paying the taxes, indeed, some may suffer losses from increased
highway congestion.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 15, 9:54 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

> So, I thought conservatives liked small government.

That's what they claim. But in fact they want a government that
serves their interests and ideology. Big criminal justice, big
defense, big roads, is all good. Trains (which are very cost
efficient) is ideologically disliked so they're bad.

[brad]

Remind me of why trains is disliked by those idiots?

[Walter Bushell]

In article <kn55eu$j4g$2...@dont-email.me>,

That's a raaather high blocking factor.

--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx

[Lawrence Statton]

Because they use trains in Europe.

Very slightly less glib: Cars represent freedom.

--
NK1G - Lawrence
echo 'lawre...@abaluon.abaom' | sed s/aba/c/g

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

"Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> writes:
> We know they have not accomplished anything with
> the invasion of Afghanistan, whatever they claim.

recent from today:

Afghanistan For Real: This Is What Winning Looks Like -- Article, Full
Length Movie Online, and Book
http://www.phibetaiota.net/2013/05/berto-jongman-afghanistan-for-real-this-is-what-winning-looks-like-article-full-length-movie-online-and-book/

references

This Is What Winning Looks Like -- My Afghanistan War Diary
http://www.vice.com/vice-news/this-is-what-winning-looks-like-full-length

from above:

The US and British forces are preparing to leave Afghanistan for good
(officially, by the end of 2014), and my time in the country over the
last six years has convinced me that our legacy will be the exact
opposite of what Allen posits -- not a stable Afghanistan, but one at
war with itself yet again. Here are a few encapsulated snapshots of what
I've seen and what we're leaving behind.

... snip ...

and

The Definitive Account of the Afghanistan War
http://www.noworseenemy.com/

above includes review by Bing West, former US assistant SECDEF and
author of "No True Glory" ... "A Frontline Account of the Battle
for Fallujah"
http://www.amazon.com/No-True-Glory-Frontline-ebook/dp/B0067A909E/

from above:

The Marines had planned to slip into Fallujah "as soft as fog." But
after four American contractors were brutally murdered, President Bush
ordered an attack on the city--against the advice of the Marines. The
assault sparked a political firestorm, and the Marines were forced to
withdraw amid controversy and confusion--only to be ordered a second
time to take a city that had become an inferno of hate and the lair of
the archterrorist al-Zarqawi.

... snip ...

a little inter-service rivalry ... there were some Army references to
fire fights that the Marines didn't stick around for.

I mention upthread, that despite various claims to the contrary
... things seem to get worse in Iraq ... this reference has 2007-2008
Baqubah worse than Fallujah
http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Baqubah-Killing-Our-ebook/dp/B007VBBS9

other past posts mentioning Baqubah:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#21 The Age of Unsatisfying Wars
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#2 Interesting News Article
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#8 Interesting News Article
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#64 Early use of the word "computer"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#54 Singer Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#49 Cultural attitudes towards failure

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#86 A Matter of Mindset: Iraq, Sequestration and the U.S. Army
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#30 A Matter of Mindset: Iraq

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#38 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#5 Lessons Learned from the Iraq War

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#79 As an IBM'er just like the Marines only a few good men and women make the cut,


recent posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#51 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#52 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#53 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#54 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#58 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#59 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

[Simon Brown]

"Andrew Swallow" <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:XYudnQ8jCYS5hQvM...@bt.com...

So did everyone else that had any oil.

>>> President Saddam was hung.
>>
>> Not because of the oil.
>>
>>
>
> Official reasons and reality can be different.

But weren't in that case.

[Simon Brown]

"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:kn54ul$ffi$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 5/16/2013 4:58 PM, Simon Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

>> news:kn3g8d$d1o$1...@dont-email.me...

>>> On 5/16/2013 11:29 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I've now read several books by American soldiers and marine who served
>>>>> there. Despite the losses, they uniformly say that what we were doing
>>>>> was worth while.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, okay, I guess that makes it okay then.
>>>>
>>>> I mean if the foot soldiers that went and killed a bunch of people
>>>> think it was okay, who are we to contradict them?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If the guys who are actually risking their lives, not the politicians
>>> or the generals, think they're accomplishing something, they most
>>> likely are.
>>

>> We know they have not accomplished anything with
>> the invasion of Afghanistan, whatever they claim.
>>

>> Plenty ran the same line with Vietnam too and it is
>> clear that nothing whatever was accomplished there
>> except an immense pile of corpses.

>>
>>> They were out on the streets every day interacting with the people,
>>> they probably had the best idea of what was actually going on of anyone.
>>

>> They claimed they did with Vietnam too. It turned out that they did not.

> I think very few thought we were accomplishing anything in Vietnam,
> especially towards the end.

Plenty did write books like you said about Iraq.

> As I say, the bigwigs kept hollering "progress," but the grunts usually
> didn't have anything good to say.

Some always do.

> Where local progress was made the VC would come in and kill the village
> leaders and terrify the rest.

Nothing like that happened in Iraq or Afghanistan, eh ?

[Simon Brown]

"Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:kn5579$j4g$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 5/16/2013 5:05 PM, Simon Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Peter Flass" <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:kn3gh2$hcg$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 5/16/2013 11:39 AM, Dave Garland wrote:
>>
>>> Saddam could have ended the embargo any time.
>>
>> But it is hardly surprising that he did not, essentially
>> because he realised that he could not survive doing that.
>
> There was a long period before the war where he could have hopped on a
> plane, escaped to some country that wouldn't extradite him and enjoyed at
> least a large part of the hidden billions he had stashed away.

But given what happened to the Shah, it is hardly surprising that he did
not.

> I think we would have been happy enough to see him go that we wouldn't
> have pursued him too hard.

Yes, if he had just put his hands up and left at the end of the
first Gulf War, I doubt anyone who mattered would have cared.

> He wanted power more than anything, in the end more than his life.

I doubt that last was a choice he made.

> It's sad, too, because he could have saved Iraq from a whole raft of
> problems.

Sure, but that's true of anyone in his situation.

Doesn't mean it's worth spending trillions and all those
lives to get rid of everyone like that tho, particularly
when things end up a lot worse for most Iraqis.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <PM0004DCC...@ac817ee3.ipt.aol.com>, on 05/15/2013
at 01:13 PM, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> said:

>> I don't think a tape has ever been called unit-record.

>It has the same functionality and restrictions as unit records.

Not even close.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org

[ma...@mail.com]

for the last few years the rail system in the UK has been privatised
and renationalized . Anyway.
One smallish railway company wanted an annual outing, so a low grade
underling was detailed to organize it, so he hired a fleet of busses,
hotels, etc. When he reported to
those above about it, there was a long silence.

"Why not use trains?"

"The busses are a lot cheaper"

I would think that promotion is not imminant.


--
Greymaus

[ma...@mail.com]

another account was that just before the launch of the attack, Saddam
informed washington what was going to happen. He had previously been asking
the US ambassador how the US would react to such an event, and (I think, she)
had not ruled it out. When Saddams message reached the White House,
the President was 'otherwise engaged' , and could not be contacted.
By morning the Saudis were going spare, aand so on the sad story went..


--
Greymaus

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> But an awful lot of general fund resources have been used to pay for
> the construction, maintenance, and operation of major highways.
>
> Don't forget highways require considerable public safety costs to deal
> with accidents, and those costs are almost always paid for general
> taxes, not road taxes.
>
> Also, highway bonds are usually government backed and have low
> interest rates as opposed to private sector bonds.
>
> When a road is expanded, the land used often comes off the tax base,
> forcing a tax hike. The benefits do not necessarily accrue to those
> paying the taxes, indeed, some may suffer losses from increased
> highway congestion.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#48 What Makes a bridge Bizarre?

there was case in cal. where the public utility commission (PUC)
authorized rate increase for PG&E .... part of it was to keep
brush&trees cleared from power lines ... instead PG&E was diverting the
funds to pay executive bonuses and not doing any brush and limb
clearing. there was a brush fire that burned several bldgs. that
started from powerline electric spark as a result of brush clearing
... and PG&E was held liable (since they had taken responsibility for
the brush clearing with the petition for additional rate increase for
the purpose).

except for get out jail free cards for public officials ... any traffic
accidents & deaths as a result of diverting highway trust funds and
resulting lack of road maintenance should subject the responsible
parties to prosecution.

there have been cases the past couple years where some roads&highways
have been privatized ... i wonder how they are treating legal liability
for proper maintenance

when they were building the new 101 highway in south bay ... coyote
valley citizens group convinced the state that it should only be four
lanes for the ten miles through coyote valley; it was six lanes north of
coyote valley in south san jose and six lanes south of coyote valley.
The six->four going north in the morning was a horrendous choke point as
was the four lane stretch all the way through coyote valley ... and it
reversed in the evening going south. The coyote valley citizens
committee had claimed that the six->four lanes would reduce the
congestion through coyote valley ... but it had the exact opposite
effect ... making congestion significantly worse. There was the
equivalent of tens of thousands of dollars aggregate loss by the
additional commute time every day and additional tens of millions by the
state when it finally got around to retrofitting the coyote valley
section to six lanes (compared to what it would have been to make it six
lanes to begin with). is anybody held responsible????

past posts mentioning highway 101 through coyote valley
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#25 TGV in the USA?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#31 Moribund TSO/E
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#25 Network databases
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#34 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#68 Historian predicts the end of 'science superpowers'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#63 64 Cores -- IBM is showing a prototype already
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009n.html#16 Mainframe Hall of Fame: Three New Members Added
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#46 If IBM Hadn't Bet the Company
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#84 Where are all the old tech workers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#11 The PC industry is heading for collapse

[Shmuel Metz]

In <avjg2l...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
at 05:26 PM, "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> said:

>Very ineffective ones tho. Nothing like the very effective support
>for the Northern Alliance that didn t cost much at all in terms of
>money, lives, severe injuries. That action did get rid of the
>terrorist training camps in Afghanistan.

And let OBL slip through our fingers. We should have relied more on
our own troops.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <kn16gs$31v$2...@dont-email.me>, on 05/15/2013

at 07:53 PM, Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> said:

>At least Bush *did something*.

Doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <avi1j6...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
at 04:13 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:

>And there is no significant disease and premature
>death that results from the use of brown coal
>instead of natural gas for power generation anyway.

You get more pollution than with hard coal.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <avi1ck...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
at 04:09 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:

>But the best of the modern designs just consume those
>too,

How? At about half the atomic weight and half the atomic number of
Uranium, there's not much you can do about the daughter atoms without
immense amounts of energy.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <avi169...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
at 04:06 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:

>But the reader needs to be able to see the context
>of that first 3 word quote was to see if your comment
>was at all relevant to the context it appeared in.

I was commenting on the Soviet lie that their system was communism.
Those three words were what was relevant.

>And there were no serfs with communism in russia either.

Other than the nomenclature, how did their treatment differ from the
way the boyars treated the serfs?

[Shmuel Metz]

In <avhuqn...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
at 03:26 AM, "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> said:

>That is not true of the god that I was commenting on, that of the
>jews, christians and muslims. There differences there are not that
>great.

1 != 3

[sdrat]

"Shmuel (Seymour J.)Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in
message news:519698d6$5$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...

> In <avi169...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
> at 04:06 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:
>
>>But the reader needs to be able to see the context
>>of that first 3 word quote was to see if your comment
>>was at all relevant to the context it appeared in.
>
> I was commenting on the Soviet lie that their system was communism.
> Those three words were what was relevant.

But not relevant to the comment I made before those
3 words were ripped completely out of context.

>>And there were no serfs with communism in russia either.

> Other than the nomenclature, how did their treatment
> differ from the way the boyars treated the serfs?

They were free to do well in their education
so that they would get the better jobs.

[sdrat]

"Shmuel (Seymour J.)Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in

message news:519699c1$6$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...

> In <avi1ck...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
> at 04:09 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:
>
>>But the best of the modern designs just consume those too,

And that is another example of your much too aggressive snipping.

It isn't at all clear what 'those' refers to.

> How?

The same way breeders do it.

> At about half the atomic weight and half the atomic number
> of Uranium, there's not much you can do about the daughter
> atoms without immense amounts of energy.

That is just plain wrong.

[sdrat]

"Shmuel (Seymour J.)Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in

message news:519699ff$7$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...

> In <avi1j6...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
> at 04:13 AM, "sdrat" <sd...@gfr.com> said:
>
>>And there is no significant disease and premature
>>death that results from the use of brown coal
>>instead of natural gas for power generation anyway.

> You get more pollution than with hard coal.

Yes, but it's mostly just water and that does not
cause significant disease and premature death.

[Simon Brown]

"Shmuel (Seymour J.)Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in

message news:51969e43$9$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...

> In <avjg2l...@mid.individual.net>, on 05/16/2013
> at 05:26 PM, "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com> said:
>
>>Very ineffective ones tho. Nothing like the very effective support
>>for the Northern Alliance that didn t cost much at all in terms of
>>money, lives, severe injuries. That action did get rid of the
>>terrorist training camps in Afghanistan.

> And let OBL slip through our fingers.

You don't know that that would not have happened anyway.

> We should have relied more on our own troops.

No, that would have cost much too much in terms of
money, lives, severe injuries. It was much more viable
to deal with him the way he was dealt with. He didn't
do anything that mattered in the time between the
assistance to the Northern Alliance and when he was
killed and his death was achieved much more cheaply
than if lots of troops had been used instead.

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <ly...@garlic.com> writes:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_B
>
> from above:
>
> In 1975, PFIAB members asked CIA Director William Colby to approve the
> initiative of producing comparative assessments of the Soviet
> threat. Colby refused, stating it was hard "to envisage how an ad hoc
> independent group of analysts could prepare a more thorough,
> comprehensive assessment of Soviet strategic capabilities than could the
> intelligence community."[11] Colby was removed from his position in the
> Halloween Massacre; Ford has stated that he, himself, made the decision
> alone,[12] but the historiography of the "Halloween Massacre" appears to
> support the allegations that Rumsfeld had successfully lobbied for
> this.[13]
>
> ... snip ...

re:

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#54 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

recent article with picture of Rumsfield with Ford

On Afghanistan, Benghazi and Critics: Donald Rumsfeld's leadership ABCs
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-leadership/wp/2013/05/15/on-afghanistan-benghazi-and-critics-donald-rumsfelds-leadership-abcs/

past post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#53 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?

reference to 2001 executive order preventing release of
presidential papers called for under Presidential records
act ... and reference to US support of Iraq ... including video of
Rumsfield with Saddam

United States support for Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

above includes:

Professor Noam Chomsky says the only country to have been granted the
"privilege" of attacking a U.S. warship and getting away with it, other
than Israel in 1967, is Saddam Hussein's Iraq.[43]

... snip ...

also references:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/index.htm

above has significant amount of information

post mentions warnings about massing forces for evasion of Kuwait being
discredited

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#54 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?

told in this book

Long Strange Journey
http://www.amazon.com/Long-Strange-Journey-Intelligence-ebook/dp/B004NNV5H2

past posts referencing book:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#70 Long Strange Journey: An Intelligence Memoir
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#10 Jedi Knights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#38 Jedi Knights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#83 Protected: R.I.P. Containment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#9 OT: Tax breaks to Oracle debated
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#78 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 17, 7:51 am, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

> I think very few thought we were accomplishing anything in Vietnam,

> especially towards the end.  As I say, the bigwigs kept hollering

> "progress," but the grunts usually didn't have anything good to say.

> Where local progress was made the VC would come in and kill the village
> leaders and terrify the rest.

Opinions changed over time. In the first half of the 1960s, Americans
knew full well the nasty record of Communist aggression and assumed,
with reasonably correctness, that it was happening in Vietnam.
Further, Americans believed what the government was telling them and
tended to look down at anti-war protesters.

But in the second half of the 1960s, more people began to take a
closer look at the situation and have their doubts. Even uninformed
people questioned why it was taking so damn long to resolve the
situation after expending so much blood and treasure. People asked
more specifically what were we doing and why were we doing it.

IMHO, the tactics of the anti-war protesters and other malcontents of
the late 1960s only made things worse. A good many of those folks
wanted to disrupt society as an end goal. A lot of the young people
who attended rallies and marched were doing so because it was
fasionable at the time, an excuse to cut school, and a way to
socialize.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 17, 7:59 am, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

> Tape was *the* portable storage media.  9-track, 1600bpi unlabelled,
> blocked 80x800, character data only.  Your only problem was deciding
> whether to record in ASCII or EBCDIC.

There was ASCII tape in that format?

Back then we got tapes from all sorts of computers in the above
format, always in EBCDIC.

[Simon Brown]

<hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
news:bc0e3b2b-b5f6-4fdc...@j7g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...

> On May 17, 7:59 am, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Tape was *the* portable storage media. 9-track, 1600bpi unlabelled,
>> blocked 80x800, character data only. Your only problem was deciding
>> whether to record in ASCII or EBCDIC.

> There was ASCII tape in that format?

Yes, particularly from DEC machines.

[Seebs]

On 2013-05-17, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Should have been clear I was referring to the people making a living out
> of their religion.

It wasn't.

> The key phrase is "child rapists, to charlatans, to hospital vampires".

> We all know who these people are.

Only:

1. I have met plenty of people who feel that way about all the religious
people.
2. It's still a ludicrous overclaim even if you restrict it to people who
make a living out of their religion.

The guys you see on TV, and who make the news, are not necessarily a
representative sample.

-s
--
Copyright 2013, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet...@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
Autism Speaks does not speak for me. http://http://autisticadvocacy.org/
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.

[Seebs]

On 2013-05-17, Bill Findlay <yald...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 17/05/2013 09:17, in article slrnkpbpjg.4gd...@leptop.lan,
> "Seebs" <usenet...@seebs.net> wrote:
>> Well, hang on. Until the end of the world? Or until some other point?
>> See also Luke 24:44, which talks about "all things" being fulfilled, but
>> further qualifies the things, and/or John 19:23-34 or so. It is not
>> uncommon for people to argue that somewhere right around here is where
>> "all" became fulfilled.

>> Right or wrong? Heck if I know. But it's common enough that it's not
>> unreasonable for Christians to claim that they don't think they are under
>> OT law, and indeed, they've been doing so since the first century or so.

> It is entirely unreasonable, but that never deterred the devout.

I would think that "entirely unreasonable" ought to be a much higher
standard than "some guy on the Internet said he thinks it's unreasonable".

I don't even think it's just-plain "unreasonable", but "entirely unreasonable"
is a pretty strong claim. If you think it's unreasonable, you're welcome
to advance an explanation of why people should be absolutely beholden to
the way you personally interpret a translation into English of a single
specific passage originally language that they don't know, without any regard
to how they interpret other passages in the same text.

[Peter Flass]

On 5/17/2013 9:47 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
> Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> writes:
>

>> On 5/16/2013 9:35 PM, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
>>> In <icbo8dt...@home.home>, on 05/14/2013
>>> at 08:16 PM, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> said:
>>>
>>>> Oh, how much I love IPCS.
>>>
>>> Well, you do need to read the manuals, except for what you can get
>>> from HELP, but it really is convenient.
>>>
>>>> Got a bunch of tape recalls just getting to the IPCS menu.
>>>
>>> That has to do with your installation's migration policies, not with
>>> IPCS per se. More to the point, if you are using IPCS within REXX
>>> code, why bother with the panels?
>>
>> I put the IPCS control files in a separate management class that
>> wasn't migrated. The control files aren't very big. The dumps
>> themselves are usually not worth specifying as NOMIG, since you
>> typically scan them and are done in a short time.
>
> Hmm, I use IPCS every few months.
> Lot's of people defeat HSM though various schemes, but it never seemed
> worth it to me. Our NOMIG classes aren't meant for casual use.

If you need to debug a problem, you usually don't want to want for a
recall. Anyhow, like I said, the control files are very small (IIRC).
>
> Maybe I'm confused about what it's doing, I have 2 datasets:
>
> MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR.DATA MIGRAT2
> MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR.INDEX MIGRAT2
>
> and I get this when I log on:
>
> Allocating new IPCS dump directory: 'MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR'
> IGD17100I UNEXPECTED CATALOG ERROR FOR DATA SET
> MYID.IPCS520.DUMPDIR
> RETURN CODE IS 8 REASON CODE IS 52 IGG0CLEM
> IGD17219I UNABLE TO CONTINUE DEFINE OF DATA SET
...

Sounds like the data and index components got migrated but somehow not
the cluster. I don't have a clue, but you may need to delete the data
and index components separately and then IPCS will recreate the datasets
for you.

--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

On 5/17/2013 9:52 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> writes:
>
>> Peter Flass wrote:
>>> On 5/16/2013 11:45 AM, Dave Garland wrote:
>>>> On 5/16/2013 5:47 AM, brad wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bill Clinton allowed Iraq to say "screw you", despite a treaty or
>>>>> whatever,
>>>>> when they kicked our inspectors out of the country, thus setting the
>>>>> stage
>>>>> for Iraq, part II.
>>>>>
>>>> They didn't kick our inspectors out (not that they cooperated very much
>>>> with the inspectors). We told the inspectors to leave, right before we
>>>> attacked.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They didn't kick them out, they screwed with them so much we had no way
>>> of knowing what was true and what wasn't. Somehow they got tipped off
>>> that the inspectors were going to make an unannounced visit somewhere,
>>> and the satellite images would show the trucks lined up to pull
>>> "something" out before they got there. They were better off not being
>>> there if they weren't able to actually "inspect."
>>>
>> Right. When the inspectors planned to examine documentation, there
>> wasn't a scrap of paper left in the building they had scheeduled
>> to visit. I don't know why people forget things like this.
>
> No paper? How dare he, invade.
>
> I don't know why you think your mental processes are superior to
> everyone else when faced with daily proof that they aren't.
>

The point was that the inspectors knew a lot of stuff was missing, but
didn't know *what* was missing. Not just paper but equipment and
supplies. I think when they got to one place they found only a few
scraps on the floor of an otherwise empty factory.

In a case like this you have to be cautious and assume that whatever is
being removed is significant, otherwise why were they going to the
trouble of removing it? It turns out they were just being obstinate,
but who knew that at the time?

They asked for what they got.

--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

On 5/17/2013 10:19 AM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>
> one account has sat. photo recon showing iraq marshaling forces for the
> kuwait invasion, the white house was notified ... and the administration
> responded by saying that iraq wouldn't do any such thing and the analyst
> raising the alarm was discredited. it wasn't until the same analyst
> raised the alarm that forces were being marshaled on the saudi border
> that things got moving.

Sounds like Benghazi. I don't know why we bother having field agents
when obviously the fat-assed bureaucrats in DC have a much better idea
of what's "really" going on. They could just pull out their crystal
balls and generate the intelligence.


--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

On 5/17/2013 1:37 PM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <kn55eu$j4g$2...@dont-email.me>,
> Peter Flass <Peter...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/16/2013 9:12 PM, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
>>> In <PM0004DCA...@ac8125f1.ipt.aol.com>, on 05/14/2013
>>> at 02:11 PM, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> said:
>>>
>>>> I'm not even trying to say it was an either/or. Also note that
>>>> magtapes are unit record devices in that the magtape cannot be
>>>> "shared" with two or more users doing different things.
>>>
>>> That's not how IBM defined "unit record" and I doubt that DEC defined
>>> it that way either.
>>>
>>>> Magtapes uscked so moving files from one system to another was an
>>>> exercise in wrestling.
>>>
>>> Maybe at DEC. I certainly had no trouble moving tape between IBM and
>>> CDC.

>>>
>>
>> Tape was *the* portable storage media. 9-track, 1600bpi unlabelled,
>> blocked 80x800, character data only. Your only problem was deciding
>> whether to record in ASCII or EBCDIC.
>

> That's a raaather high blocking factor.
>

Not 80x800 as in 64,000 byte blocks. I was suggesting 800 byte blocks.

--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

On 5/17/2013 1:37 PM, Lawrence Statton wrote:

> "brad" <no...@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>
>>> On May 15, 9:54 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, I thought conservatives liked small government.
>>>
>>> That's what they claim. But in fact they want a government that
>>> serves their interests and ideology. Big criminal justice, big
>>> defense, big roads, is all good. Trains (which are very cost
>>> efficient) is ideologically disliked so they're bad.
>>
>> Remind me of why trains is disliked by those idiots?
>

> Because they use trains in Europe.
>
> Very slightly less glib: Cars represent freedom.
>

More prosaically, many Republicans represent rural districts where
passenger trains are not widely used. Demsocrats from the northeast
corridor and coastal California are the big train supporters, for
obvious reasons. Anyhow, Amtrak now says it is actually making a
profit. I just think passenger rail should get the same kind of support
as roads and airports, at least per capita or per passenger mile.



--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

It makes sense to send the tape in the original character set of the
data, and let the recipient translate it. Otherwise you're depending on
the sender to provide a correct translation.

--
Pete