Stupid Professor Tricks
Peter van der Linden
like computer science. Firstly, any field of study containing the noun
"science" is almost guaranteed not to be one (e.g. social science,
political science, computer science). Secondly, in any field that
evolves as rapidly as computer science, the students may very well know
more than the pedagogue -- an intolerable situation for a professor.
Thus it is with a mixture of both pleasurable anticipation and
trepidation that I throw open an invitation to readers to recount
"stupid professor tricks."
One of my favorite's is a quote from Professor Black that "these
micro's are alright, but they will never be of any significance" (circa
1979). The good professor retired into obscurity soon after, while I
went on to earn a fat living as a microcomputer consultant -- and they
say there's no justice!
----------------
Peter "proactive" van der Linden lin...@eng.SuN.cOm (415) 336-6206
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
by lin...@adapt.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden):
> There are two fundamental problems with being a professor of a subject
> like computer science. Firstly, any field of study containing the noun
> "science" is almost guaranteed not to be one (e.g. social science,
> political science, computer science).
The above two sentences are almost a direct quote from Don Knuth's
introduction to his Donald Gillies memorial lecture at the University
of Illinois back in the 1970's. Was it 1977 or 1978? The lecture
was on TeX and Metafont.
Doug Jones
jo...@herky.cs.uiowa.edu
Mike Dahmus
(Scott Alfter) says:
>And Apple is as strong as ever. I have my IIe in my dorm room. Radio Shack
>is also doing fairly well in the computer biz.
A IIe? How can you be PROUD of a IIe? Regardless of the fact that Apple is
still in business! Just because IIe's still exist doesn't mean they weren't
outclassed! They were, even by the admittedly pathetic PCjr! Many people
still have their PCjrs as well.
>IBM: Insipid Brainless Monster.
Tell you what. Since you're judging IBM on the PCjr, how 'bout judging
Apple on the IIe? Both have been severely outclassed, and it would be
silly to judge either company this way.
By the way, I have a Model 70. It blows away *anything* Apple or Radio Shack
can come up with...
-------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael E. Dahmus | "Stupid people and Macintoshes - it takes a |
| MXD118 @ PSUVM | crowbar to seperate 'em!" |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. Murphy
(Scott Alfter) writes:
>In article <13...@cbnewsc.ATT.COM> wc...@cbnewsc.ATT.COM (Willard C. Smith)
writes:
>>At my school the faculty was divided up into the IBMers and the anti-IBMers.
>>The day IBM announced the PC JR one of my professors walked into class and
>>announced that APPLE didn't have a chance and would be out of business by
>>the end of the year and that Radio Shack would be be hard pressed, but might
>>hang on to *some* of its market share. Of course, none of this came to pass,
>>the JR was such a Turkey that IBM practically paid people to take them.
>
>And Apple is as strong as ever. I have my IIe in my dorm room. Radio Shack
>is also doing fairly well in the computer biz.
>
of it's Tandy 1000 line of PC compatibles. The closest I ever want to
come to an Apple is a TrackStar 1000 board.
>Scott Alfter------------------------------------------------------------------
>Internet: cs1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _/_ Apple IIe: the power to be your best!
This is your Objoke to rec.humor, right? (That's a *hilarious* one!!)
(Oh boy, my Apple has 128K!!! And 6-color 220x200 graphics!! And a 2 MHz
processor!! Wow, what a computer!!!!)
The only real computer I've seen come out of Apple is the Mac II - and
you could buy close to *3* generic 286 machines (like the 1000 TL!) for
what you would pay for a decent Mac II system.
Of course, people that used them in high school and don't know any
better go out and buy an Apple anyway.
+-Murphy's law: The amount of bugs present-+-_ M_ i_ c_ h_ a_ e_ l _ M_ u_ r_ p_ h_ y--------------+
| in your program is inversely proportional| mm2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu |
| to the time you've spent working on the | mur...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu |
+-damn thing.------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Willard C. Smith
>One of my favorite's is a quote from Professor Black that "these
>micro's are alright, but they will never be of any significance" (circa
>1979). The good professor retired into obscurity soon after, while I
>went on to earn a fat living as a microcomputer consultant -- and they
>say there's no justice!
At my school the faculty was divided up into the IBMers and the anti-IBMers.
The day IBM announced the PC JR one of my professors walked into class and
announced that APPLE didn't have a chance and would be out of business by
the end of the year and that Radio Shack would be be hard pressed, but might
hang on to *some* of its market share. Of course, none of this came to pass,
the JR was such a Turkey that IBM practically paid people to take them.
--
Willard C. Smith (708) 979-0024 att!iwsgw!wcsa
"It's life, Captain, but not as we know it."
Scott Alfter
>The only real computer I've seen come out of Apple is the Mac II - and
>you could buy close to *3* generic 286 machines (like the 1000 TL!) for
>what you would pay for a decent Mac II system.
Why don't you just face up the simple fact that IBM sucks? Messy-DOS is the
most brain-dead operating system ever devised! Why do i even hear the MS-DOS
users complaining that their machines have great hardware, but the OS stinks?
Don't even start talking about OS/2. I haven't seen it, and probably never
will, as IBM hackers want to hang on to obsolete command-line systems while
innovative companies like Apple make computers the average Joe can use without
a degree in computer science (referring, of course, to the Macintosh). As for
the Apple II, you have the best of both worlds. If you want to return to the
old days, you can get an OS that makes sense, or you can run desktop programs
if you don't want the confusion that sometimes comes with giving commands
directly to the computer.
>Of course, people that used them in high school and don't know any
>better go out and buy an Apple anyway.
OK, so they are a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for. I think
Apple makes genuinely usable computers. Every time I've tried to use an IBM
PC, on the other hand, I've run into nothing but trouble with OS crashes (OK,
so the Mac has them all the time also) or just plain incomprehensible soft-
ware. The Apple II does what I want, which is something no IBM "personal
computer" will ever do. And no, my .sig is NOT an objoke.
Sorry for the digression, but back to getting what you pay for, a GENUINE IBM
system probably costs as much as the Macintosh II system you speak of, and it's
nowhere near as flexible or easy-to-use. Don't even think of mentioning
clones--they're usually flimsy Japanese (or worse!) pieces of shit. You
can't beat the real thing, no matter what line of computers you're talking
about. Speaking in terms of Apple II compatibles, the Laser 128 may only cost
about as much as a Commodore 128, but it isn't half the machine that the Apple
IIe is. I suspect likewise with the MS-DOS clones from places with strange
names exhibit the same overall chintziness.
I think I will fix my .sig just a little bit, tho'. Someone else (who has an
Apple II) suggested the change originally.
Scott Alfter-------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: cs1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _/_ Apple II: the power to be your best!
alf...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu/ v \
saa3...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ( ( A keyboard--how quaint!
Bitnet: free...@uiucvmd.bitnet \_^_/ --M. Scott, STIV
Scott Alfter
>The day IBM announced the PC JR one of my professors walked into class and
>announced that APPLE didn't have a chance and would be out of business by
>the end of the year and that Radio Shack would be be hard pressed, but might
>hang on to *some* of its market share. Of course, none of this came to pass,
>the JR was such a Turkey that IBM practically paid people to take them.
And Apple is as strong as ever. I have my IIe in my dorm room. Radio Shack
is also doing fairly well in the computer biz.
IBM: Insipid Brainless Monster.
Scott Alfter-------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: cs1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _/_ Apple IIe: the power to be your best!
Dave Newton the Late
I dunno about this silly computer-war thing...
For the price of a full Mac IIx, I can get a 33 Mhz 386 absed system with
Unix and X-windows, probably Motif (or simialar) and blow your pants off.
Why argue about whose computer is best? Who cares? If it does what it
needs to, it doesn't really matter. I have a "lowly" Atari ST. I got it
because I had about $1000 to spend and didn't want an IBM in that price range.
But for the price, a Unix 80x86 box is hard to beat, both in terms of software
_and_ hardware options.
I'd still take a NeXT anyway. And don't give me crap about it not being
great, 'cuz I know it isn't _that_ wonderful. But it would suffice for my
meager needs.
--
David L. Newton | uunet!marque!carroll1!dnewton
(414) 524-7343 (work) | dne...@carroll1.cc.edu
(414) 524-6809 (home) | 100 NE Ave, Waukesha WI 53186
TomShark Collins
(Scott Alfter) says:
>Why don't you just face up the simple fact that IBM sucks? Messy-DOS is the
>most brain-dead operating system ever devised! Why do i even hear the MS-DOS
>users complaining that their machines have great hardware, but the OS stinks?
>Don't even start talking about OS/2. I haven't seen it, and probably never
>will, as IBM hackers want to hang on to obsolete command-line systems while
>innovative companies like Apple make computers the average Joe can use without
>a degree in computer science
>Alfter-------------------------------------------------------------------
You definitely have some strong feelings toward the Apple II. When I
was in high school, I swore by my IIe, and anything I couldn't do with
that, I could do with a GS. I hated using MS-DOS computers when I had
to, and thought I'd get a GS and be happy the rest of my life. Well, I
broke down and bought an IBM system, and after I started using it, I
found out how much nicer MS-DOS was than ProDos. I found that
programming in Turbo Pascal was nothing like Apple Pascal. And the
graphics - EGA blows the IIe away, and VGA blows the IIGS away. I will
admit that the GS kicks ass when it comes to sound, but I could get an
AdLib card for my IBM and have similar capabilities.
Everyone has to face up to the fact that people like their computers and
will defend them to the death (well, almost anyone). I'm just trying to
say that you can't judge a machine until you've owned and used one as
your primary system for an extended period of time. After using my IBM
(clone - no, it's not cheap and Taiwanese) I'd hate using my IIe when I
go home for school breaks.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but don't state your opinions as
facts.
-Shark
-------
Tom "Shark" Collins Since ICS is comprised of 2 people, my views
tbc...@psuvm.psu.edu are the opinion of at least 50% of the company.
Scott Alfter
>Tell you what. Since you're judging IBM on the PCjr, how 'bout judging
Whoever said I was judging IBM on the PCjr? The trouble I've had is with XTs
and ATs. If I can't sit down at a computer and start to get some real use out
of it without wading through thousands of pages of documentation (I'm just
talking about basics, nothing really advanced--though I did learn AppleWorks
without a manual :-) ), I want nothing to do with it. Messy-DOS is brain-
dead, and you know it. It's just that you sunk thousands upon thousands of
dollars into a machine that runs this lousy system, and you're too proud to
admit the stupidity of your decision.
Scott Alfter-------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: cs1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _/_ Apple II: the power to be your best!
MEGAZONE 23
>HEY GUYS, HOLD IT RIGHT THERE!! THIS IS REC.HUMOR AND NOT
>
>COMPUTER.RELIGIOUS.WAR!! If you want to fight, just step outside of
>
>this newsgroup, please, and don't mess the place up. Thank you.
Question: How the hell did this get crossposted to rec.humor from
alt.folklore.computers in the first place?
###############################################################################
# "Calling Garland operator 7G," EVE "No................Yes," Sue #
# MEGAZONE, aka DAYTONA, aka BRIAN BIKOWICZ Email mega...@wpi.wpi.edu #
# In Search of: Animag #3 & #4 Bitnet megazone@wpi #
###############################################################################
Edward Vielmetti
[ Apple vs. IBM deleted ]
Uh, folks, that group you want is alt.religion.computers, not
alt.folklore.computers, for the my-pc-is-better-than-yours wars.
Thankyouverymuch.
--Ed
Byron Rakitzis
>In article <1990Feb20.1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, cs1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
>(Scott Alfter) says:
>>And Apple is as strong as ever. I have my IIe in my dorm room. Radio Shack
>>is also doing fairly well in the computer biz.
>
>A IIe? How can you be PROUD of a IIe? Regardless of the fact that Apple is
>still in business! Just because IIe's still exist doesn't mean they weren't
>outclassed! They were, even by the admittedly pathetic PCjr! Many people
>still have their PCjrs as well.
>
Hey, the Apple // series is way cool. Just think that the first apple //
came out, when, in 1978???? That's over 10 years ago! What can you
possibly expect from a machine which has an 8-bit processor and 64K of
memory? The fact is that given its limited resources the apple kicked
ass. It was a true hackers machine; the architecture was completely
open and you knew exactly where you were going when you were
programming the //.
Give me the // over any stinking PCjr, any day.
--
Just try taking your VAX down to Jiffy-Lube these days!
Byron "Bo knows parallel computational geometry" Rakitzis.
(tbra...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU)
Matthew T. Russotto
>By the way, I have a Model 70. It blows away *anything* Apple or Radio Shack
>can come up with...
Sure-- when it crashes, it takes everything within 50ft, be it Apple,
Radio Shack, or Compaq....
--
Matthew T. Russotto russ...@eng.umd.edu russ...@wam.umd.edu
][, ][+, ///, ///+, //e, //c, IIGS, //c+ --- Any questions?
David Bonds
>a degree in computer science (referring, of course, to the Macintosh). As for
>the Apple II, you have the best of both worlds. If you want to return to the
Sounds like the perfect computer for morons. I never could get anything
productive done on a computer that smiles at me when it boots up, and makes
a "DOING" noise when it gets a disk error of some type.
>old days, you can get an OS that makes sense, or you can run desktop programs
>if you don't want the confusion that sometimes comes with giving commands
>directly to the computer.
Once again, the computer for morons. Which is easier, typing DIR for
DIRectory, ERAse, DELete, and all the other DOS commands, or moving a mouse
around the screen while trying to decypher what all the Icons mean, and
whether your file is currently lost in a folder, project, and what the
difference between a folder and project is in the first place.
>
>>Of course, people that used them in high school and don't know any
>>better go out and buy an Apple anyway.
>
>OK, so they are a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for. I think
>Apple makes genuinely usable computers. Every time I've tried to use an IBM
>PC, on the other hand, I've run into nothing but trouble with OS crashes (OK,
I'd imagine you didn't know the commands, and got frustrated when the
computer didn't help you with a smile or a "doing".
>
so the Mac has them all the time also) or just plain incomprehensible soft-
>ware. The Apple II does what I want, which is something no IBM "personal
>computer" will ever do. And no, my .sig is NOT an objoke.
And MS-DOS does what No Apple could ever do, give me real computing power
without having to own a Unix system.
and my sig IS an objoke, after all, this is rec.humor, not really the
place for flame wars on computers. If ya really gotta bitch, take it
to email.
>clones--they're usually flimsy Japanese (or worse!) pieces of shit. You
>can't beat the real thing, no matter what line of computers you're talking
>about. Speaking in terms of Apple II compatibles, the Laser 128 may only cost
Again, I must disagree.. The system I use at home (wish I had it here!)
is a 20Mhz 80286. It was such a clone it didn't even have a nameplate
where the IBM usually was on "the real thing". Ran faster than almost all
of the IBM line, to be exact, it ran ~1084% faster than an original IBM.
>about as much as a Commodore 128, but it isn't half the machine that the Apple
>IIe is. I suspect likewise with the MS-DOS clones from places with strange
>names exhibit the same overall chintziness.
I never had a system crash, even when HL&P pulled a fast one on me and
glitched the power once. Took a lickin and keeped on tickin ( in Mhz, not
in secs. (-: ).
All in all, eveyone will have their own personal favs for PCs, and whatever
creams your twinkie is best for you. If you prefer a TI-99 to a Cray
because it is easier to use, have fun.. Personally, I need the power, and
concidentally, like the DOS type of apprach to human-computer intefaces.
If you really want to get into powerful computing, try unix, it is
easier to learn it going from a DOS shell than from an Icon oriented
shell, but as I said before - to each his own..
Direct all IBM flames to my mailbox - if you don't get a reply in 2 or 3 days,
you probably won't....
GurgleKat [Pete Gontier]
-- a graph is a specialized form of tree
(nope, it's the other way around, and I knew that intuitively
without the benefit of the unit on graph traversal)
-- BASIC, FORTRAN, and COBOL are the most widely-used languages
(nope, hon, it's dBASE and all of its clones, and you'd better
start reading periodicals if you want to provide practical info)
-- VAR parameters in Pascal are an abomination because BASIC didn't
do it that way
-- Pascal doesn't allow you to say x := y where x and y are some
arbitrary but matching data type, including records, arrays, etc.,
because Pascal didn't allow it when she went to school
Ah, the benefits of attending a research institution...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Gontier | InterNet: 6600...@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, BitNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa
Editor, Macker | Online Macintosh Programming Journal; mail for subscription
Hire this kid | Mac, DOS, C, Pascal, asm, excellent communication skills
Larry A. Shurr
}Why don't you just face up the simple fact that IBM sucks?...
Ahhh! Nothing like a civil discussion among friends.
--
Signed: Larry A. Shurr (cbema!l...@att.ATT.COM or att!cbema!las)
Clever signature, Wonderful wit, Outdo the others, Be a big hit! - Burma Shave
(With apologies to the real thing. The above represents my views only.)
(You may now R'eply. Forwarding from cbnews to my mail address now works!!!)
Larry A. Shurr
}In article <42...@helios.TAMU.EDU> gor...@photon.tamu.edu (Dan Gordon) writes:
>>HEY GUYS, HOLD IT RIGHT THERE!! THIS IS REC.HUMOR AND NOT
>>COMPUTER.RELIGIOUS.WAR!! If you want to fight, just step outside of
>>this newsgroup, please, and don't mess the place up. Thank you.
}Question: How the hell did this get crossposted to rec.humor from
}alt.folklore.computers in the first place?
'Course, one might ask why it's in alt.folklore.computers, as well.
regards, Larry
pixel,c108,,
> In article <42...@helios.TAMU.EDU> gor...@photon.tamu.edu (Dan Gordon) writes:
>>HEY GUYS, HOLD IT RIGHT THERE!! THIS IS REC.HUMOR AND NOT
>>COMPUTER.RELIGIOUS.WAR!! If you want to fight, just step outside of
>>this newsgroup, please, and don't mess the place up. Thank you.
>
> Question: How the hell did this get crossposted to rec.humor from
> alt.folklore.computers in the first place?
Actually it *started* in alt.folklore.computers and was crossposted to
rec.humor, then got crossposted *back* here.
*shrug* go figure.
Hey, has anyone noticed those new analog on-off switches? Like the ones
on Zenith PC Monitors, that are supposed to control the width of the display.
One setting leaves nice wide margins on the sides, the other cuts off the edges
of the display, but someone here figured out that if you putz with the switch,
you can get it to display a medium sized screen...just right for the physical
size of the monitor! :-)
-----
Pixel rick cooley, sablelover cooleyra@clutx. clarkson.edu | bitnet
"Keep the wind in your solar sails..." --Glenn Clapp
"Nothing can stop him. Not even common sense." --Mark Komarinski
Steve Lamont
Can we please take this to alt.religion.computers -- thanx loads.
spl (the p stands for
purdy please with
sugar on it)
--
Steve Lamont, sciViGuy (919) 248-1120 EMail: s...@ncsc.org
NCSC, Box 12732, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
"I love you for your beauty; love me although I am ugly."
Cervantes, _Don_Quixote_
Dave Ihnat
Well, wait a minute. The PC Jr. actually wasn't as much a turkey as you
suggest. It wasn't what you or I would consider a professional-quality
machine. BUT it had a great and potentially burgeoning future in the
educational market. You know, that area where Apple has guaranteed that it
will have thousands of kids coming out of school knowing and loving Apples?
It, even in its most minimal configuration, could run most then-current IBM PC
programs; and in addition, it had a more powerful color display than the stock
PC, and a sound generation system that was far more advanced. (It actually
played a rather sophisticated Bach cantata in three voices for one application
I worked on.) The chiclet keyboard was a PITA, and the I/R link was funny if
you had an office full of the boxes. And it was (typically, for IBM products)
over-priced. BUT--it was a lot cheaper than a true-blue PC.
How do I know this? A major client had developed a series of educational
software targeted for the PC Jr., with sophisticated animation, still
graphics, and complex sound generation. They'd planned an entire product
line to revolve around the availability of a cheap, relatively powerful
box. I was called in to port the products to another platform when IBM
announced that it was "ceasing production, since there were enough units
warehoused to fill anticipated demand." Read this as the death knell for
any product line.
Frankly, at that time, I (and several others) after really getting to know
the PC Jr. and its line of addon expansion products, think that IBM killed
it because they belatedly realized that they'd introduced a machine that
would severely cut into stock PC sales. I could easily envision a small
office buying several machines for secretaries, order entry, etc., and only
buying one true PC for those tasks that the Jr. couldn't handle; whereas if
the Jr. didn't exist, they'd have to consider buying all of them real PC's.
Dave Ihnat
ign...@homebru.chi.il.us (preferred return address)
ign...@chinet.chi.il.us
Tim Nelson
>(Scott Alfter) says:
>>And Apple is as strong as ever. I have my IIe in my dorm room. Radio Shack
>>is also doing fairly well in the computer biz.
>
>A IIe? How can you be PROUD of a IIe? Regardless of the fact that Apple is
>still in business! Just because IIe's still exist doesn't mean they weren't
>outclassed! They were, even by the admittedly pathetic PCjr! Many people
>still have their PCjrs as well.
>
>>IBM: Insipid Brainless Monster.
>
>Tell you what. Since you're judging IBM on the PCjr, how 'bout judging
>Apple on the IIe? Both have been severely outclassed, and it would be
>silly to judge either company this way.
>
>By the way, I have a Model 70. It blows away *anything* Apple or Radio Shack
>can come up with...
Yah? Well I have a BOOMIN' BIG MUDDA (a BBM to you techies), and it
can outclass everything from a LITTLE PIECE OF SHIT (LPOS) to
a BIG PIECE OF SHIT (BPOS).
[ hardy hardy har ... but I'm tellin de truth, you must believe me ]
It is faster than a CRAY, smaller than a telephone, and able to leap
pieces of paper in real time.
So don't go tellin me about this (haha) Model 70.
Haven't had one of those for 'bout goin' on 20 years now.
And as far as Apple and IBM are concerned, my BBM ate them for lunch
3 months ago.
So take that dammit!
q8-) .... that's a smiley wearing glasses and a baseball hat for
the non-BBMers out there.
later,
=====
tim nelson | uucp ...!uunet!attcan!ncrcan!tim
ncr canada | internet Tim.N...@Toronto.NCR.COM
(416) 826-9000 | 6865 Century Ave, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5N 2E2
=====
* Have a good day, and a great forever! * What?
Jeff Boerio
>Whoever said I was judging IBM on the PCjr? The trouble I've had is with XTs
>and ATs. If I can't sit down at a computer and start to get some real use out
>of it without wading through thousands of pages of documentation (I'm just
>talking about basics, nothing really advanced--though I did learn AppleWorks
>without a manual :-) ), I want nothing to do with it. Messy-DOS is brain-
>dead, and you know it. It's just that you sunk thousands upon thousands of
>dollars into a machine that runs this lousy system, and you're too proud to
>admit the stupidity of your decision.
I own a PC, and I admit that MS-DOS isn't the best choice for an operating
system, but it is a darn sight better than using BASIC as an operating
system. I still haven't read most of the documentation that came with my
PC, and I have never had a problem using it. I still haven't read some of
the documentation for a lot of the software that I use on my PC. And it
doesn't cost "thousands upon thousands" of dollars to build a decent
machine. I don't regret my choice at all, considering the other choice was
an Apple IIe at the time!
- Jeff
--
Jeff Boerio : Purdue University Dept. of Computer Science
a...@mace.cc.purdue.edu : Purdue University Computing Center Volunteer
boe...@orchestra.ecn.purdue.edu : Purdue University ECN Student Programmer
Michael D. Kersenbrock
I expect most users of IBM made PC machines don't spend much time at the
DOS prompt, they likely are using an application's user interface.
<>The Apple II does what I want, which is something no IBM "personal
<>computer" will ever do. And no, my .sig is NOT an objoke.
I had one for a while (my wife had one when we got married). We gave it
away, the homebrew Z80 CP/M system I had at the time blew the Apple II
away for our purposes. Whatever.
<>Don't even think of mentioning
<>clones--they're usually flimsy Japanese (or worse!) pieces of shit. You
Don't look inside your Mac. Especially don't look at the writing on many
of the IC's that are inside your MAC. You might get unhappy.
<>Scott Alfter-------------------------------------------------------------------
<>Internet: cs1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _/_ Apple II: the power to be your best!
<> alf...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu/ v \
<> saa3...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ( ( A keyboard--how quaint!
<> Bitnet: free...@uiucvmd.bitnet \_^_/ --M. Scott, STIV
BTW - When you say "IBM machine", I assume you speak specifically about
their PC-products, currently their PS/2 line. IBM has other
products, such as their new line of POWER RISC workstations
(low-end unit unit is something like 27 MIPS & 7.5 MFLOPS, that with
a 1200 x 1000 display, 8-MB of RAM, and 300 Meg of disk, comes out
at about $13K. It doesn't run DOS, it runs Unix (Posix/Motif vein I
think), with an alternative UI like Job's NeXt. When you say
"IBM-stinks", you speak of these units as well. I've only seen the
trade press on these (they didn't invite me to their shindig in
S.F. - sigh :-) ), but on first glance, they don't appear to stink
at all. Certainly not yet anyway.
This vein of computer-war probably should be moved to alt.flame.
--
Mike Kersenbrock
Tektronix Microprocessor Development Products
mich...@copper.WR.TEK.COM
Aloha, Oregon
Mark Edward Bradley
I'd rather see another Superman joke. (well... maybe knot :-)
One of the things I hate most about being a CS major is you always see the
IBM and Apple people at each others throats!!!
Give it a rest.
Joke: (Sounds a little bit like the current thread)
Two boys arguing on the sidewalk:
My dad's smarter than your dad!
NO HE'S NOT! My dad's stronger than your dad!
NO HE'S NOT! My mom's better than your mom!
Well, you got me there. That's what my dad says too.
--
Mark Bradley "I bet your the guy that always BEATS on the pinball
meb...@cec2.wustl.edu glass when the ball doesn't go the way YOU wanted it
Disclaimer: Your fault. to." -- David Watters
Andrew MacRae
>and my sig IS an objoke, after all, this is rec.humor, not really the
>place for flame wars on computers. If ya really gotta bitch, take it
>to email.
Please Mr. Bonds, please, please, please, check the newsgroups line before
posting responses all over the network. I don't mean to single you personally
on this latest flareup of my computer is better than your computer, but it is
a real pain to find this junk in this newsgroup.
Again, please don't take this personally, but EVERYONE, please don't post
flames in this group!
Andrew MacRae
Jochen M. Fritz
>Ah, but you see, this was in a basic (not BASIC) programming class in which
>we used Turbo Pascal and Wirth's name was never mentioned, to my knowledge.
>Besides, I can always trot out the old saw "Popular usage is more relevant
>than the standard." And I don't think I would be too far off the mark in this
>case, even though I usually hate dictionary arguments, because Pascal is one
>language in particular that is almost never implemented according to its
>standard.
>
Thus, it is proven that real programmers and languages are WIRTH-less.
(Sorry about this, but I couldn't resist.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jochen Fritz | For though we live in the world, we do not |
| joef...@pawl.rpi.edu | wage war as the world does.-- 2 Cor. 10:3 |
| user...@rpitsmts.bitnet| You have heard it said, Love your neighbor |
| Noah [the peace monger] | and hate your enemy. But I tell you: Love |
| | your enemies. Matt. 5:43-44 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David M Tate
>
> Thus, it is proven that real programmers and languages are WIRTH-less.
>(Sorry about this, but I couldn't resist.)
>
between the (correct) German pronunciation, 'Veert', and the Anglicized one,
'Worth'. The joke: "Germans invoke him by reference; Americans by value".
--
David M. Tate | "A fool and his money are soon elected."
dt...@unix.cis.pitt.edu |
| "I was of three minds, like a tree in which
"A Man for all Seasonings" | there are three blackbirds." -- Wallace Stevens
Sean Colbath
>
> (nope, hon, it's dBASE and all of its clones, and you'd better
> start reading periodicals if you want to provide practical info)
I'd be interested in hearing where you got *your* information from. dBASE
only runs on one or two platforms, to the best of my knowledge. I know of
very few platforms that don't have a FORTRAN compiler. I know of extremely
modern companies that still use COBOL, especially when tools like ADABAS or
NOMAD or other relational databases are available. I don't think dBASE is
available on large IBM mainframes, which I suspect is where 90% of the
nation's databases are stored.
> -- Pascal doesn't allow you to say x := y where x and y are some
> arbitrary but matching data type, including records, arrays, etc.,
> because Pascal didn't allow it when she went to school
To the best of my knowledge, *Pascal* still doesn't allow this. *Turbo*
pascal may, or *Mac* pascal, but *Pascal* has never allowed assignment of
compound types. Not, at least, as Wirth specified the language.
>Ah, the benefits of attending a research institution...
Hmm...
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Pete Gontier | InterNet: 6600...@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, BitNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa
>Editor, Macker | Online Macintosh Programming Journal; mail for subscription
>Hire this kid | Mac, DOS, C, Pascal, asm, excellent communication skills
--
Sean Colbath
col...@cs.rochester.edu ...uunet!rochester!colbath
"And now for something completely different..."
GurgleKat [Pete Gontier]
> dBASE only runs on one or two platforms, to the best of my knowledge.
CP/M, DOS, UNIX, Mac... the list goes on. dBASE can't be an incredibly
expensive product to port once you've cloned the basic engine, which many
people have done.
But I think the vast majority of people are using it under DOS,
so it might as well be a one-platform product. Regardless of that,
though, DOS happens to be the OS with the most installations, so...
> I know of very few platforms that don't have a FORTRAN compiler. I
> know of extremely modern companies that still use COBOL, especially
> when tools like ADABAS or NOMAD or other relational databases are available.
The question isn't whether COBOL is being used a lot or not.
It obviously is. It's whether it has been overtaken by dBASE.
> I don't think dBASE is available on large IBM mainframes, which I suspect
> is where 90% of the nation's databases are stored.
Naw. Maybe 90% of the data (but I doubt it), but not 90% of the databases.
Your comparisons get screwed as long as I maintain that all cook-book and
record collection databases are "real" databases. Think of all the CEO's who
spend their time playing with their PCs. Think of all the Point-of-Sale
systems that people have thrown together.
One thing I will concede is that dBASE may as well be BASIC, so I'm not
saying anything significant here. You make the call.
>> -- Pascal doesn't allow you to say x := y where x and y are some
>> arbitrary but matching data type, including records, arrays, etc.,
>> because Pascal didn't allow it when she went to school
>
> To the best of my knowledge, *Pascal* still doesn't allow this. *Turbo*
> pascal may, or *Mac* pascal, but *Pascal* has never allowed assignment of
> compound types. Not, at least, as Wirth specified the language.
Ah, but you see, this was in a basic (not BASIC) programming class in which
we used Turbo Pascal and Wirth's name was never mentioned, to my knowledge.
Besides, I can always trot out the old saw "Popular usage is more relevant
than the standard." And I don't think I would be too far off the mark in this
case, even though I usually hate dictionary arguments, because Pascal is one
language in particular that is almost never implemented according to its
standard.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Meissner
col...@cs.rochester.edu (Sean Colbath) writes:
| In article <40...@hub.UUCP> 6600...@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu writes:
| >My "favorite" CS professor had a few doozies:
| >
| > -- BASIC, FORTRAN, and COBOL are the most widely-used languages
| > (nope, hon, it's dBASE and all of its clones, and you'd better
| > start reading periodicals if you want to provide practical info)
|
| I'd be interested in hearing where you got *your* information from. dBASE
| only runs on one or two platforms, to the best of my knowledge. I know of
| very few platforms that don't have a FORTRAN compiler. I know of extremely
| modern companies that still use COBOL, especially when tools like ADABAS or
| NOMAD or other relational databases are available. I don't think dBASE is
| available on large IBM mainframes, which I suspect is where 90% of the
| nation's databases are stored.
I dunno, how many millions of PC and/or Mac users out there compared
to how many thousands of mainframe programmers? If you go by "widely-
used" languages, I would would believe the above claim.
--
Michael Meissner email: meis...@osf.org phone: 617-621-8861
Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA
Catproof is an oxymoron, Childproof is nearly so
Christian Brunschen
Let people enjoy whatever computer they happen to own,
and be happy with what you have yourself,
and keep dreaming about what you would like to have ...
But remeber :
The thing that keeps the computer manufacturers constantly improving
their machines is NOT some kind of interest in fast computers.
It's GREED.
They build computers to make money.
Now here enters a word which is very important :
COMPETITION.
If there were no competition, no one would bother to build newer,
bigger, better, faster computers (or any product for that matter),
because nobody would have the option of buying anything else.
So we see a performance/price race all over the computer market.
This could well be happening, even if there was only ONE TYPE of
computer (just look at the IBM & its closes : all alike, yet all
different); BUT (and this is important) computer manufacturers
are competing about the best overall PHILOSOPHY as well.
This means that not only speed and/or memory are factors in buying
a computer.
The way it interacts with you has come to play an extremely important part.
Conclusion :
As long as there is a market for something, even if there are alternatives
in the same proce range, you can conclude that some people actually LIKE
that product, or have gotten used to it, which is almost the same when
computers are involved.
YOU CAN'T DENY THAT even by stating 'Product X is sh*t!' or something
similar.
I will not comment on the Apple []*,//*,II*,///* vs IBM PC/XT/AT* vs CP/M
war.
I have migrated to un*x, which has gotten far beyond such petty fights
(except for the one against OS/2 ... :-)
Love whatever you love,
Hate whatever you hate,
Use whatever you have;
But please: keep flames out of alt.folklore.computers .
It started out as one of the best newsgroups in the system (= most intresting),
but alas, has now become littered with identical flames (except for replacing
IBM by Apple and vice versa), so I'm actually thinking of unsubscribing...
But I don't want to miss all the good stuff!!
Too bad my first posting has to be like this
mtfbwy
Christian Brunschen
--
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Internet : d8...@efd.lth.se | Snail : Christian Brunschen |
| | Husmansv. 26 |
| IRC : snooker | S - 222 38 Lund |
| Phone # : +46 (46) 13 19 84 | Sweden |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------+
Michael Sinz - CATS
>>My "favorite" CS professor had a few doozies:
>>
[deleted the stuff about dBase... You both a right... ;-)]
>> -- Pascal doesn't allow you to say x := y where x and y are some
>> arbitrary but matching data type, including records, arrays, etc.,
>> because Pascal didn't allow it when she went to school
>
>To the best of my knowledge, *Pascal* still doesn't allow this. *Turbo*
>pascal may, or *Mac* pascal, but *Pascal* has never allowed assignment of
>compound types. Not, at least, as Wirth specified the language.
Ah, but that was not the point. The point was in the last line:
"becasue Pascal didn't allow it when she went to school"
Note that Pascal does not allow it because it is a strongly typed language
and not because it did not earlier and thus does not now.
BTW - TURBO does not let mis-matched types to be assigned either. And if
MAC pascal does, then it is not a strong-typed language.
James R. B. Davies
> Date: 22 Feb 90 00:56:15 GMT
>
> dt...@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)
>> Actually, the standard joke about the name "Wirth" has to do with the
contrast
>> between the (correct) German pronunciation, 'Veert', and the Anglicized one,
>> 'Worth'. The joke: "Germans invoke him by reference; Americans by value".
>
> In Germany I am called by reference: Herr Doktor
> In Switzerland I am called by name: Professor Wirth
> In America I am called by value: Worth
I heard (second- or third-hand) that Wirth himself used to use this joke
to start talks:
You can call me by name (Neeklas Veert)
or by value (Nickel's Worth)
This really only makes sense in the US and Canada, I guess - otherwise
the reference to a "nickel" might be a bit obscure...
J.M. Spencer
Comparing computers? Boring boring boring boring boring boring.
Why don't you morons go and watch some paint dry?
OBJ:
Friend's 10 year old daughter to mother *just* turned 40:
D. Mum, can I ask you a question?
M. Yes of course, what is it?
D. Why are you all wrinkly?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sender : Jonathan M Spencer
Mail : Computing Lab, University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK
Phone : +91 222 8229
ARPA : J.M.Spencer%newcast...@cs.ucl.ac.uk
JANET : J.M.S...@uk.ac.newcastle
UUCP : !ukc!newcastle.ac.uk!J.M.Spencer
Paul Martz
discussion for rec.humor, just because watching you two mac/ibm
stereotypes go at each other could, tangentially, be described as
amusing. But NO WAY is this an appropriate topic for discussion in
alt.folklore.computers.
You all have been asked before to move this crap to
alt.religion.computers. Are you completely ignorant of what groups
you are posting to?
--
-Paul
cross fingers and type: {utah-cs,decwrl}!esunix!"pmartz@bambam"
or cs.utah.edu!esunix!"pmartz@bambam"
Jim Warford
>One of the things I hate most about being a CS major is you always see the
>IBM and Apple people at each others throats!!!
Yep, arguing about tinker-toys. Wait until they see a real computer :-)
--
Faster horses
Younger women
Older whiskey
More money!
David C. Kaplowitz
>Joke: (Sounds a little bit like the current thread)
>Two boys arguing on the sidewalk:
>My dad's smarter than your dad!
>NO HE'S NOT! My dad's stronger than your dad!
>NO HE'S NOT! My mom's better than your mom!
>Well, you got me there. That's what my dad says too.
To men who have a long standing competition, meet casually in a bar.
The first one, running his hand over the second's bald head, remarks
loudly "Why, this feals just like my wife's bottom!" The second,
after running *his own* hand over *his own* head replies "Why, you're
right, IT DOES!"
adam
--
Jonathan A. Chandross
> Actually, the standard joke about the name "Wirth" has to do with the contrast
> between the (correct) German pronunciation, 'Veert', and the Anglicized one,
> 'Worth'. The joke: "Germans invoke him by reference; Americans by value".
This is incomplete. The correct list is something like:
In Germany I am called by reference: Herr Doktor
In Switzerland I am called by name: Professor Wirth
In America I am called by value: Worth
I'm not surprised you forgot call by name. They probably didn't mention
it in class. Call by name is something you use to threaten compiler
writers with: "If you don't behave you'll have to implement call by
name. And then you'll be sorry."
Jonathan A. Chandross
Internet: j...@paul.rutgers.edu
UUCP: rutgers!paul.rutgers.edu!jac
Craig DeForest
>Scott Alfter says:
>>And Apple is as strong as ever. I have my IIe in my dorm room.
Hey, mellow out, Mike. The Apple ][ line is like the Volkswagen Bug. It's
underpowered, but it gets you there. And it's easy to work on. And it's
no more complex than it has to be. And... see the .sig...
I still have my original Apple ][ : 48k RAM, with an extra 16k swappable in
the Language Card. I took it in to get a new keyboard ribbon cable (the sharp
points on the underside of the keyoard PC finally worked their way through the
insulation...), and the guy at Computerland actually gave me a free ROM upgrade
to an Apple ][+! (Applesoft in ROM). (I did keep the old Programmer's Aid
ROMs; whaddayathinkIam? Stoopid?)
How many of you hidden Apple II owners used the TTL drivers for anything
useful? (like feeding them, with the speaker output, into a D/A for 5-bit
sound?)
--
===============================================================================
Craig DeForest : zo...@portia.stanford.edu --or-- cr...@reed.BITNET
Dr. Porsche designed the first VW engine. His career went downhill from there.
===============================================================================
Scott MacHaffie
because they have fewer components, so the electrons don't have as far
to go." -- well, yes, but.....
Scott MacHaffie
%will, as IBM hackers want to hang on to obsolete command-line systems while
%innovative companies like Apple make computers the average Joe can use without
%a degree in computer science (referring, of course, to the Macintosh). As for
A degree in computer science, how quaint. YOU might need a cs degree to
use (much less program) a computer, but some of us do fine without one.
Paul J. Osze
got an AMIGA system that runs MS-DOS and Mac software, and has both a mouse/icon
interface and a command line shell. I can't wait to add UNIX to it this
Spring! (Not to mention the new INMOS Transputer!)
Why pick and choose when you can have the best (and worst) of all systems?
The BoingDragon
+----------+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| \\^^// | "I suppose it is much more comfortable to be mad and not know it |
| (O||O) | than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin |
| \||/ | |
| (oo) | "Life does not require justification." - Dragon proverb |
| `' | |
| Khryss | "I TOLD you to burn the mummy!" - Roderick Manalac |
+----------+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Charles Green
>My dad's smarter than your dad!
>NO HE'S NOT! My dad's stronger than your dad!
"Oh yeah? Well, *my* computer can emulate *your* computer ... in real-time!"
--
"IOUT should never be allowed to equal ILIMIT, even for a microsecond."
cha...@C3.COM {decuac.dec.com,cucstud}!c3pe!charles ex::!echo Boo:
David Munday
mach...@fred.cs.washington.edu (Scott MacHaffie) writes:
Reminds me of my undergrad Computer Graphics prof who spent a lecture explaining
how the red, green and blue _electrons_ came from their respective guns to
make a color image...upon cross examination, she revealed that the electrons
themselves were indeed red, green, and blue.
She also consumed an entire hour demonstraiting the vector transformations
to progect a 3D virtual image into a 2D raster, and did every transformation
backwards. (I came in late and didn't figure out where she got this wierd
stuff on the board from untill it was too late to correct within the hour.)
--
Dave Munday | Bitnet : d0mund01@ulkyvx AT&T 606-781-2423
Fool on the Hill | INTERNET : d0mund01%ulkyvx...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Northern Kentucky U. | UUCP : ...psuvax1!ulkyvx.bitnet!d0mund01
| Fido : 9876/99 606-781-5834
| USmail : 20 Chalfonte Pl, Ft Thomas, Ky 41075
"In heaven all the interesting people are missing." - Nietzsche
Anton Rang
>Tell you what. Since you're judging IBM on the PCjr, how 'bout judging
>Apple on the IIe? Both have been severely outclassed, and it would be
>silly to judge either company this way.
Sure, both of 'em are outclassed. But the //e still sells pretty well.
>By the way, I have a Model 70. It blows away *anything* Apple or Radio Shack
>can come up with...
Hmm. I suspect the Model 70 is probably roughly equivalent to one
of the Mac // series. Both Apple and IBM seem to make pretty decent
computers, though IBM has mostly gone out of the business of making
cheap ones, it seems.
Anton
[ Followups to alt.religion.computers ]
+---------------------------+------------------+-------------+
| Anton Rang (grad student) | ra...@cs.wisc.edu | UW--Madison |
+---------------------------+------------------+-------------+
The Polymath
}I dunno, how many millions of PC and/or Mac users out there compared
}to how many thousands of mainframe programmers? If you go by "widely-
}used" languages, I would would believe the above claim.
A confounding condition is how many copies of dBase are actually in use,
as opposed to merely possessed. Osborne was bundling dBase II with their
machines for a while, as were several other companies. Lots of
inexperienced owners probably buy it for the hype, only to discover you
have to be a programmer to make any real use of it.
Yes, there's a lot of dBase II's, III's and even IV's out there, but all
those COBOL programs get _used_, most of them _every day_. I'd bet a
large fraction of the PC's and clones out there get used as word
processors and game machines, regardless of available software. (A
slightly smaller fraction get used as door stops and dust collectors).
Millions of copies sold doesn't necessarily mean millions in use.
--
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, holl...@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimis non
Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
Nick Christopher
> I like the teacher who said "RISC chips are faster than CISC chips
> because they have fewer components, so the electrons don't have as far
> to go." -- well, yes, but.....
Reminds me of my AI teacher who had been pursued down to the hardware level
on the subject of knowledge representation. The class had a couple of people
who knew nothing about hardware but wanted an answer about "what a bit was".
Well the profs final attempt was:
student: what's a bit? how does it represent one or zero?
prof: ever lick a battery?
student: yes....
prof: that tingle - thats a one!
That put an end to that digression.
\n
Robin Rosenberg INF
In article <90051.151...@psuvm.psu.edu> MXD...@psuvm.psu.edu (Mike Dahmus) writes:
>By the way, I have a Model 70. It blows away *anything* Apple or Radio Shack
>can come up with...
Have you tried shutting off the fan by cutting the wires to it? Perhaps that
could reduce your problems.
--------------
Robin Rosenberg
Rich Strebendt
That reminded me of one of my earliest programming classes in which
another student asked the instructor the equivalent to the question
"How does a computer actually compute?" The instructor, rather than
try to fit a course on digital hardware into the remaining few minutes
of the class, gave the memorable reply
"Magic"
Rich Strebendt
...!att!ihlpb!res
r.str...@att.com
Ellen R. Spertus
English class, a large research paper. In order to try to keep
students from reusing papers, they kept a file of old junior themes
(or said they did). Also, they made students turn in their note
cards, which were a required intermediate step.
My year was one of the first that most of the papers were word
processed. The teacher told us the department was considering making
students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on. He couldn't
understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
Chuck Bigham
>
>My year was one of the first that most of the papers were word
>processed. The teacher told us the department was considering making
>students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on. He couldn't
>understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
Okay, I'll bite.
Why was this funny?
John Owens
> processed.
I believe I was the first person in my high school to turn in a
word-processed English paper. It took considerable effort to convince
the teacher that the computer hadn't "written the paper for me".
--
John Owens jo...@jetson.UPMA.MD.US uunet!jetson!john
+1 301 249 6000 john%jetso...@uunet.uu.net
Robert Lane A.
Okay, I'll bite.
Why was this funny?
It's funny if they wanted the floppy disks to keep the students from
sharing their work with each other or with students who take the class
in the future. Can you say *backup*? I knew you could. :-)
Come to think of it, it's downright *hilarious* if they expected to
actually _read_ all of the floppies they would get!
Lane
l...@usl.edu
Steven Casagrande
>In article <21...@milton.acs.washington.edu> dig...@milton.acs.washington.edu (Chuck Bigham) writes:
> In article <1990Feb28.2...@athena.mit.edu> ers...@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes:
> >
> >My year was one of the first that most of the papers were word
> >processed. The teacher told us the department was considering making
> >students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on. He couldn't
> >understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
>
> Okay, I'll bite.
> Why was this funny?
>
>It's funny if they wanted the floppy disks to keep the students from
>sharing their work with each other or with students who take the class
>in the future. Can you say *backup*? I knew you could. :-)
They could use the floppies to CHECK for copies. For example, they
input a certain string (from a given report) and search (grep, if you
like) for that string in ALL THE PAST REPORTS. The reports could
be put on a hard disk for this purpose. You would have to make sure
you used a suitable search string to get the number of matches
you were looking for (for example, the string "Introduction" probably
would match 90% of the papers, but "Stallings shows that the performance"
might only catch the copies).
Example algorithm:
for each new paper
get a 'unique' string from the paper
for each old paper
search for 'unique' string in old papers
report hits for further evaluation
done
done
For 100 new papers and 1000 old ones, you do have a lot of computer time,
but it could run overnight.
It *is* funny if they only wanted it for the reason you say, but
it could be used as an automated copy-checker.
Steve Casagrande
s...@lzga.att.com
The Polymath
}students from reusing papers, they kept a file of old junior themes ...
}... The teacher told us the department was considering making
}students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on. He couldn't
}understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
Neither can I. Yes, the students can keep a copy of the disk. So?
Nothing kept the students from making copies of their note cards and old
themes, either. The point is the department can build a machine readable
database of papers. That would make copy detection _much_ easier -- which
is the whole point.
Sounds more like a stupid student trick to me.
Fred Buechler [Devil Mountain Consulting]
>actually _read_ all of the floppies they would get!
>
Maybe it was just a scam to get a bunch of free floppies! :-) :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fred Buechler fr...@llama.rtech.com
Devil Mountain Consulting, Inc 71261...@compuserve.com
Concord, California # include <DISCLAIMERS.STD>
"Don't test for an error condition that you don't know how to handle"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
George D. Nincehelser
>In article <1990Feb28.2...@athena.mit.edu> ers...@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes:
>}... to try to keep
>}students from reusing papers, they kept a file of old junior themes ...
>
>}... The teacher told us the department was considering making
>}students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on. He couldn't
>}understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
>
>Neither can I. Yes, the students can keep a copy of the disk. So?
>Nothing kept the students from making copies of their note cards and old
>themes, either. The point is the department can build a machine readable
>database of papers. That would make copy detection _much_ easier -- which
>is the whole point.
>
>Sounds more like a stupid student trick to me.
>
Unless this was the computer science department (or a very progressive
English department) I doubt that they were planning to do copy
detection.
I can see it now! 100 disks handed in: several different physical
sizes, several different OS formats (for each size), and several
different file formats (for each OS). Yeah, there are solutions
to this problem, but none are real elegant.
The main point of handing in note-cards is not to prevent copying.
Educators (the good ones at least) are trying to make the students
go through a tried-and-true process of writing a research paper,
not to catch cheaters.
I'm sure many students think that the note-card issues is to stop
them from cheating. They, like all young people, sometimes fail
to see the big picture. I sure would have thought like them,
but not now.
I found the folklore humorous for two reasons: 1) the educator
got lost in technology and 2) the students thought they were
really going to get away with something.
Handing in disks in lieu of note-cards is silly unless it can
document the research process in some way. Even if it could,
would the educator be able to read the format?
Handing in disks as machine readable copies of papers is silly,
too, unless the department is willing and able to handle the
problem of varying formats.
--
/ George D. Nincehelser \ uunet!swbatl!george \
/ / Southwestern Bell Telephone \ Phone: (314) 235-6544 \
/ / / Advanced Technology Laboratory \ Fax: (314) 235-5797 \
/ / / /\ 1010 Pine, St. Louis, MO 63101 \ de asini umbra disceptare \
Ellen R. Spertus
>}... to try to keep
>}students from reusing papers, they kept a file of old junior themes ...
>
>}... The teacher told us the department was considering making
>}students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on. He couldn't
>}understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
>
>Neither can I. Yes, the students can keep a copy of the disk. So?
>Nothing kept the students from making copies of their note cards and old
>themes, either. The point is the department can build a machine readable
>database of papers. That would make copy detection _much_ easier -- which
>is the whole point.
>
>Sounds more like a stupid student trick to me.
No way. You vastly overestimate the intelligence of a high school
English department. The reason they wanted the disks was so that
students couldn't just give each other electronic copies to modify.
This was of course ridiculous, because all the students would have
backups anyway. The English department probably didn't own any
computers, and certainly lacked the sophistication. The disks would
have been IBM, Apple (II and Mac), TRS-80, and who knows what else.
I could imagine a college trying to do what you're describing, but
it was definitely NOT what my high school intended.
David Harrington
>
>That reminded me of one of my earliest programming classes in which
>another student asked the instructor the equivalent to the question
>"How does a computer actually compute?" The instructor, rather than
>try to fit a course on digital hardware into the remaining few minutes
>of the class, gave the memorable reply
>
> "Magic"
> Rich Strebendt
> ...!att!ihlpb!res
> r.str...@att.com
Which reminds me of my first day in Partial Differential Equations:
Me (an Engineering student): "What are we going to DO with the
equations?"
Prof (scowling): SOLVE them!
--
David Harrington internet: d...@unify.UUCP
Unify Corporation ...!{csusac,pyramid}!unify!dgh
3870 Rosin Court voice: (916) 920-9092
Sacramento, CA 95834 fax: (916) 921-5340
Harold Tomlinson
:)
:) In article <90051.151...@psuvm.psu.edu> MXD...@psuvm.psu.edu (Mike Dahmus) writes:
:) >By the way, I have a Model 70. It blows away *anything* Apple or Radio Shack
:) >can come up with...
:)
:) Have you tried shutting off the fan by cutting the wires to it? Perhaps that
:) could reduce your problems.
:)
:) --------------
:) Robin Rosenberg
:)
:)
I really hate to follow this thread, but...
As to your Model 70, did you know that it was released about 2 hours
after the Tandy 5000MC? Did you also know that the Tandy 5000MC is the
only other OS/2 (read micro-channel) machine one the market?
Did you also know that the Tandy 5000MC and the IBM PS/2 Model 70 are
physically IDENTICAL inside?
PC magazine did an article on it a while back. The only differance
they found was that the Tandy was faster!!! (Now how's your fan blowing?)
Oops. I made a mistake... There was one other differance...
... about $4000.00 ...
The 5000MC was release about $4000 less.
Harold.t.
--
==========================================================================
Disclaimer: What you think my opinion is may not even be my opinion.
It is in fact only what my opinion is in your opinion.
==========================================================================
|\/~\/~\/| Harold Tomlinson
| | Computing Advisor
| | Academic Computing Services
| | York University
\__ __/ 4700 Keele St., North York (Toronto)
'||` Ontario, Canada. M3J 1P3
||
==========================================================================
Backup: The duplicate copy of crucial data that no one bothered to make.
==========================================================================
Mike Dahmus
(Harold Tomlinson) says:
> Oops. I made a mistake... There was one other differance...
>
> ... about $4000.00 ...
>
> The 5000MC was release about $4000 less.
That's REALLY surprising, since the street price of a Model 70 386 is now
somewhere between $5 and 6 K. According to your info, that means this
Tandy (386) machine can be had for between $1 and 2K!! I'm surprised Radio
Shack can keep them in stock!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael E. Dahmus | "Stupid people and Macintoshes - it takes a |
| MXD118 @ PSUVM | crowbar to separate 'em!" |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
jeff
: As to your Model 70, did you know that it was released about 2 hours
:after the Tandy 5000MC? Did you also know that the Tandy 5000MC is the
:only other OS/2 (read micro-channel) machine one the market?
:Did you also know that the Tandy 5000MC and the IBM PS/2 Model 70 are
:physically IDENTICAL inside?
Did *you* know that OS/2 runs on machines other than micro-channel machines?
Usenet file owner
]>In article <1990Feb21....@chinet.chi.il.us> ign...@chinet.chi.il.us (Dave Ihnat) writes:
]>> In article <13...@cbnewsc.ATT.COM> wc...@cbnewsc.ATT.COM (Willard C. Smith) writes:
]>> > ...the JR was such a Turkey that IBM practically paid people to take them.
]>>
]>> Well, wait a minute. The PC Jr. actually wasn't as much a turkey as you
]>> suggest.
]>
]>Yeah, I don't know why people always thought of the Jr. as a turkey, either.
]>At one point I had to work on a project that involved PC's, and I chose to
]>take a PC Jr. home instead of the regular PC (because it was lighter to carry).
]>It didn't seem any slower, none of the software that I tried didn't run, there
]>just weren't any real differences between it and the "real" PC. This was a
]>later Jr with a real keyboard (non chicklet) and the optional keyboard cord.
]>Joe "Augi" Augenbraun ucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!augi
Yeah! Did you get your PCjr with IBM's Writing Assistant, too? We
got the 'orphan' price on ours, and it proved pretty darn useful for
a family that only needed word processing. I later borrowed it to do
a long paper on. It came for about $1000(1984) with the disk drive, 128K,
color monitor, & the Writing Assistant. I am going to get it myself one
of these days, and all I have to do is fix it. B^).
--Scott
Joe Augenbraun
> In article <13...@cbnewsc.ATT.COM> wc...@cbnewsc.ATT.COM (Willard C. Smith) writes:
> > ...the JR was such a Turkey that IBM practically paid people to take them.
>
> Well, wait a minute. The PC Jr. actually wasn't as much a turkey as you
> suggest.
Yeah, I don't know why people always thought of the Jr. as a turkey, either.
At one point I had to work on a project that involved PC's, and I chose to
take a PC Jr. home instead of the regular PC (because it was lighter to carry).
It didn't seem any slower, none of the software that I tried didn't run, there
just weren't any real differences between it and the "real" PC. This was a
later Jr with a real keyboard (non chicklet) and the optional keyboard cord.
Joe
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Illiterate? Write for free brochure"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe "Augi" Augenbraun ucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!augi
System Engineering arpa: cbmvax!au...@uunet.uu.net
Commodore Business Machines Phone: 215-431-9332
Steve Ansell
>At one point I had to work on a project that involved PC's, and I chose to
>take a PC Jr. home instead of the regular PC (because it was lighter to carry).
>It didn't seem any slower, none of the software that I tried didn't run, there
>just weren't any real differences between it and the "real" PC. This was a
>later Jr with a real keyboard (non chicklet) and the optional keyboard cord.
>
> Joe
>
phhht ha ha ha oh gosh! I can hardly control myself! phew! I get it!
> "real" PC
^^^^^^
oh my! phhht ha ha ha! This news group just gets funnier by the minute!
CAUTION: wild posters crossing {please be careful where you cross-post}
-Steven T. Ansell
_______________________________________
|Internet: stan...@ucdavis.edu |
| ccs...@pollux.ucdavis.edu|
|BITNET: stansell@ucdavis |
|UUCP: ucdavis!stansell |
| ucdavis!pollux!ccs005 |
---------------------------------------