Looney lefty liberalism strikes again
Dink
chance at the Texas academic proficiency exit exam will be allowed to
don caps and gowns and cross the stage with their classmates and receive
a 'certificate of participation' in lieu of a diploma.
--
Dink
N 30.21, W 97.81 http://snipurl.com/whereiam
http://snipurl.com/austinweatherpixie
"Guns cause crime like wet sidewalks cause rain, cameras cause
pornography, and spoons cause Rosie to be fat and stupid."~~Neal Boortz
JD Cooper
> Students in the Austin Independent School District who failed their last
> chance at the Texas academic proficiency exit exam will be allowed to
> don caps and gowns and cross the stage with their classmates and receive
> a 'certificate of participation' in lieu of a diploma.
good fuckin' grief!
well... the liberals will love this.
JD
**Dalin**
wrote:
Aww c'mon JD. Maybe the school district has a heart and doesn't want
to embarrass the kids who didn't pass. They will go to summer school,
no doubt, or repeat their senior year, but meanwhile their classmates
and relatives other than parents won't know. It's a kindness, nothing
to do with being liberal or conservative I think.
And what's wrong with the Texas system if the kids keep trying and
failing the test? How did they get to be seniors anyway if they don't
know enough? Maybe the school district is a little embarrassed about
that.
Dalin
JD Cooper
you're kidding, right?
JD
**Dalin**
wrote:
About embarrassing the kids or something being wrong with the Texas
system that they can't pass the test? I wasn't kidding about either
one. They aren't getting a diploma if they didn't pass. I just
don't see anything so horrible in letting them walk across a stage and
getting a non-diploma. What is the point in punishing them by
embarrassing them, by pointing out they were too stupid to pass the
test? Kids can leave school at 16 so those who stay must have been
trying. Maybe they had to work after school and were tired, and maybe
they weren't the smartest in the class.
I don't know what a proficiency exit exam is anyway. We don't have
that here, we have regents exams the kids have to pass, one in
science, math, language, American History, English etc. And it's the
same exam all across the state. The kids in BOCES or a business
degree don't take the science or math or language regents but they all
have to take English and History and pass it. And they have to have
enough credits in passed courses to graduate. Plus passing the
required regents exam.
So what is this proficiency exit exam? Proficiency in what?
Dalin
Wolfie
Graduations are for graduates. To honor students who failed to
complete their requirements in the same ceremony cheapens the honor to
the graduates. Why do people insist upon denegrating success to the
same level as failure just to save the feelings of someone who
failed? I should think those who failed would be too embarassed to be
on the same stage as the graduates. They should be.
Wolfie, et al
**Dalin**
wrote:
As I said the failures could have quit when they reached 16. They
stayed the course and just maybe it's because they aren't too smart,
or they had to work too hard after school, or the school system failed
them by continually passing them when they didn't deserve it. It
happens a lot that way. But they didn't leave at 16.
Maybe they did complete their requirements and failed the proficiency
exit test because some kids just get all worried and scared and don't
do well on tests. As I said to JD I'd like to know more about what
this test is. I didn't take chemistry in HS so if they asked Chem
questions I would have failed those.
What I hate to think is that everything they learned in HS depends on
ONE test which is what was implied.
Anyway, if it all depends on one test, that's my opinion and you sure
can have a different one. That's what makes the world go round. :-)
And I respect your and JD's feelings. I just think you guy are
heartless! LOL!
Dalin
>
Jim Chandler
No, Dalin, that is NOT kindness. It is liberal BULLSHIT! Nothing more,
nothing less. If there were some real consequences to not doing the
work during school, such as not being allowed to participate in the
graduation ceremonies and having everyone know that you're a lazy ass,
or worse yet, stupid, perhaps the kids would work a little harder. Why
even send them to school if you're going to give them a "Certificate of
Participation"? It's nonsense, plain and simple. Now these dunderheads
get to walk across the stage and fool those who don't know what jerks
they are into thinking that they actually graduated high school. Sorry,
no sympathy for this misbegotten scheme. Do the work, graduate, or stay
home.
Jim
Jim Chandler
The exit exam is a test that the kids take when juniors and seniors that
is, at least here in Californicate, based on eighth and ninth grade
information. It's not that hard. Why should those who can't or won't
pass the test be allowed to pollute the ranks of those who DID do the
work and learned, after twelve years, at least what they should have
known when leaving junior high? That, to me, is degrading to the workers.
Jim
Jim Chandler
Thank you, Wolfie. Today's kids have no shame and many, in fact, think
it is cool just to walk across the stage, whether they belong there or
not. We are in complete agreement on this subject.
Jim
Barbara
smartest kid in the class. I failed practically everything ...but I got a A
for effort. My problem, I had no motivation to pursue a life career...plus,
I had hearing problems which I couldnt hear half the time what was being
said, so it was boring. BUT...when I turned 25, I went to a college level
rehab center (I have a physical disability, in case you forgot), I was
excellent there! Because I had motivation from my instructors and
counselors. Then, later on I went to a Business College to pursue Medical
Secretarial Courses. I aced just about all classes. So, it may be other
reasons involved...dont be too quick to judge people!
--
Barb
"Jim Chandler" <n4...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:GK61i.413$b67.231@trnddc06...
Jim Chandler
B I N G O!!
The worst thing that the liberals have done to our school systems is the
"social" promotions. Kids who do absolutely NOTHING during the year and
receive "F"s for the class are promoted so they can stay with their
friends and not suffer the stigma of failure. Get real, all you lefty
loonies, failure is part of life and the best time to learn that harsh
lesson is when you are in school and your livelyhood does not depend on
getting a passing grade. The kids today who are socially promoted are
not fit for the outside world and think that when they do leave high
school they are just going to march into a business and be given a job,
whether they can do it or not, and never have to worry about failiing at
it because they never suffered any consequences for failure in school.
High school is not that difficult. There are basic skill courses that
those who don't want to work too hard can take and at least get some
knowledge. They don't all have to take Calculus and Trig and
Para-normal Psychology, etc. The exit exam covers a variety of subjects
including English (you know the language we speak), and math at and
eigth grade level, along with some general science questions. The test
is not that difficult and they are allowed to take it several times if
they don't pass it the first time. No, the problem is NOT the test,
it's the ne're-do-wells who think that the world owes them something and
that they will not have to work for anything.
Jim
**Dalin**
Fine, but I don't understand what a proficiency exit test is that
everyone has to pass. If you majored in science, you should pass a
science test, if you majored in business then you should have to pass
a business math test. What is ONE test? We all need more info on
this before anyone can say whether it's right or wrong, don't you
think?
What if you are mentally challenged and have tried your best? What if
you're poor and have to work long hours after school and still try
your best?
I skipped a grade in school and it was hell on my math knowledge. And
I went for extra help for Algebra after school and worked all year
with the teacher. When it came time for the regents (65% was passing)
I got a 64.5. I was passed anyway by a good hearted teacher who knew
how hard I had worked all term to understand it. I aced Trig though.
Did that make me stupid because I couldn't understand Algebra yet
could ace Trig?
See, what if your graduating depended on one test? What if you though
you would pass and you had your date for the prom, dress or tuxedo
ordered, parents buying a nice gift?
Does a little kindness ever hurt anyone? Let the kids have their
moment in the sun if they did try. And anyone who didn't quit HS at
the first legal moment must have tried.
Hey it's ok if you feel differently and I'll let you both have the
last word too. For a woman that is most difficult!
Thanks for listening to my POV. :-)
Dalin
**Dalin**
OK :-) Different states have different criteria.
Dalin
Barbara
--
Barb
"Barbara" <bpo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:...
> As one who you may had considered a dunkerhead in HS...I was not the
> smartest kid in the class. I failed practically everything ...but I got a
> A for effort. My problem, I had no motivation to pursue a life
> career...plus, I had hearing problems which I couldnt hear half the time
> what was being said, so it was boring. BUT...when I turned 25, I went to a
> college level rehab center (I have a physical disability, in case you
> forgot), I was excellent there! Because I had motivation from my
> instructors and counselors. Then, later on I went to a Business College to
> pursue Medical Secretarial Courses. I aced just about all classes. So, it
> may be other reasons involved...dont be too quick to judge people!
>
> --
> Barb
> "Jim Chandler" <n4...@gte.net> wrote in message
> news:GK61i.413$b67.231@trnddc06...
>> **Dalin** wrote:
>>> On Fri, 11 May 2007 17:02:04 -0500, JD Cooper <jus...@whatever.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dink wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Students in the Austin Independent School District who failed their
>>>>>last chance at the Texas academic proficiency exit exam will be allowed
>>>>>to don caps and gowns and cross the stage with their classmates and
>>>>>receive a 'certificate of participation' in lieu of a diploma.
>>>>
>>>>good fuckin' grief!
>>>>
>>>>well... the liberals will love this.
>>>>
>>>>JD
>>>
>>>
>>> Aww c'mon JD. Maybe the school district has a heart and doesn't want
>>> to embarrass the kids who didn't pass. They will go to summer school,
>>> no doubt, or repeat their senior year, but meanwhile their classmates
>>> and relatives other than parents won't know. It's a kindness, nothing
>>> to do with being liberal or conservative I think.
>>>
>>> And what's wrong with the Texas system if the kids keep trying and
>>> failing the test? How did they get to be seniors anyway if they don't
>>> know enough? Maybe the school district is a little embarrassed about
>>> that. Dalin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
sparky
It makes the kids who really did work hard enough to pass
wonder why they even bothered trying if everyone can go the
same graduation ceremony even if they did not work hard.
Socialism at its finest.
Jim Chandler
> As one who you may had considered a dunkerhead in HS...I was not the
> smartest kid in the class. I failed practically everything ...but I got a A
> for effort. My problem, I had no motivation to pursue a life career...plus,
> I had hearing problems which I couldnt hear half the time what was being
> said, so it was boring. BUT...when I turned 25, I went to a college level
> rehab center (I have a physical disability, in case you forgot), I was
> excellent there! Because I had motivation from my instructors and
> counselors. Then, later on I went to a Business College to pursue Medical
> Secretarial Courses. I aced just about all classes. So, it may be other
> reasons involved...dont be too quick to judge people!
>
As a former dunderhead myself (HS dropout at 17, then Associates Degree
at 37, Bachelor's Degree at 47), and a recent substitute teacher who had
to deal with them, I feel perfectly suited to judge. The kids, not all,
but many, are basically lazy and will refuse to do even the simplest
work. I substituted for a History teacher for the final quarter of last
school year and, lacking proper leason plans, had the kids read the
chapters and tried to have them discuss the material and ask questions
and answer the few simple questions at the ends of the sections. They
had been allowed to "buy" their grades by bringing in recyclable
materials and canned foods for so long (3/4 of the year) that they
wouldn't even do that. The chapter tests I made up were straight out of
the book and, in most cases, used identical wording. They were not
suffering from physical disabilities, rather lack of motivation. They
knew that they wouldn't have to do the work and nothing would happen
because of it.
Jim
Jim Chandler
The exit exam is a test to show that you are, at least, qualified for an
eighth grade education and that you have met a standard set forth by the
state. Every student has to take it and over 85% pass it the first
time. Those that do not can re-take the exam until they do, without
limit. Basically, it is a final exam for high school. It does not test
your major, rather your basic level of knowledge.
Jim
Barbara
class..I did pass that one. He was also the basketball coach so he was
probably more interested in coaching than teaching. But still....were you a
teacher in this particular case that is being discussed? :)
--
Barb
"Jim Chandler" <n4...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:Ne71i.422$b67.163@trnddc06...
**Dalin**
The schools should not be passing kids who don't make the grade. It's
easier for them I think to just pass kids who shouldn't be. No fuss
with the parents, lawyers even. There are classes for slow kids now
in most schools as well as bright students. But woe to the educators
who dare to put little Johnny in a "slow" class. And imagine how the
kids feel, it isn't their fault if they are low IQ. So they are
mainstreamed instead. And no one wins.
Dalin
**Dalin**
wrote:
>As one who you may had considered a dunkerhead in HS...I was not the
>smartest kid in the class. I failed practically everything ...but I got a A
>for effort. My problem, I had no motivation to pursue a life career...plus,
>I had hearing problems which I couldnt hear half the time what was being
>said, so it was boring. BUT...when I turned 25, I went to a college level
>rehab center (I have a physical disability, in case you forgot), I was
>excellent there! Because I had motivation from my instructors and
>counselors. Then, later on I went to a Business College to pursue Medical
>Secretarial Courses. I aced just about all classes. So, it may be other
>reasons involved...dont be too quick to judge people!
Good for you Barb! Lots of kids would have given up when they didn't
do well in school. Sometimes it takes some maturity to persevere.
High school isn't just grades, it's a social life and peer pressure
that can make or break a person with mental or physical disabilities.
Dalin
**Dalin**
What if they did work hard?
Dalin
Barbara
> do well in school. Sometimes it takes some maturity to persevere.
> High school isn't just grades, it's a social life and peer pressure
> that can make or break a person with mental or physical disabilities.
>
> Dalin
True,Dalin...I did not have many friends in school. Because I was
"different" from the others, they shied away from me, and being shy myself
didnt help any. Back in the dark ages of the 50's, we mainstreamed kids with
disabilities. I was a mainstreamer. I tried my best to keep up...many times
I wanted to give up completely. To be honest, if things would had been a
little different, one of my goals was to had been a nurse..but that was
squelched by a cousin who said I would not be able to be a nurse...that blew
the wind out of my sails. It was all "what the hell" from then on (this was
in the 3rd grade!) :(
I tried to encourage my neices and nephews not to let others demean them
and to do their best. School is just a learning phase of real life after
high school (btw...I enjoyed college..of course, I was almost 30 when I went
to Bus. College).
**Dalin**
They wouldn't get their diploma would they?
Dalin
**Dalin**
If they can't pass an eighth grade level test by the time they are
ready to graduate from hs, who the heck let them into hs?
Dalin
JD Cooper
JD
Barbara
I am tired..been a stressing week, so my brain is on low fuel now.
Good night every one!
--
Barb
"Barbara" <bpo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kZSdnQhFkMgWYNnb...@bright.net...
**Dalin**
wrote:
And I wonder how many more there were like you (and are now) who are
made to feel different and just give up because they are considered
dumb, or because they are poor and can't dress like the other kids,
or have a physical handicap that sets them apart? And they fell/fall
through the cracks. They should be able to walk in their graduation
class even if they don't graduate.
I got good grades and I was told I couldn't be a doctor. And probably
not, because at the time they felt I would marry, get pregnant, drop
out etc. and why should I take the place of a man in medical school?
I would have made a damn good surgeon which is what I wanted.
Who or what gave you the courage to go back to school?
Dalin
>
Marsha
DittyDu...@webtv.net
still flunked on the final statewide exam requirement. The school
system told them they could not graduate, as passing that exam was a
requirement for graduation. So when the salesmen came in peddling
yearbooks and class rings, etc. and calling cards/ business cards, and
invitations Senior pics all the stuff that goes along with graduation,
the kids all bought the stufff. When it got up to the point of caps and
gowns-- Don't know how that is/was done -- the HS dept in charge of
maintaining standards, pointed out to the kids who were deficient that
they would not be allowed to graduate.
Without going into great detail here, The kids were expected to pass the
final exit exam in the eighth grade. Many kids were able to pass before
the end of the seventh. The exam was given again and again during
grades 9-12. The kids all knew their scores and they were not passing
it. They knew it was a requirement. The parents were notified,.
(later some would say they never got the letter, etc.) So when the caps
and gowns were not forthcoming and the kids who failed to pass the
requirement were told they could not graduate with their class.
Surprise! Big whoopdedooooo!They had been socially promoted before===
so why the big change???????
The parents got together and sued the school system. And wouldn't you
know the judge said the school system had to allow them to go through
all the grad stuff with the ones who had passed the requrement.
Makes you wonder why bother, too.
This is a big school system, one of the largest in the country. It is
expensive.
There are diagnostic tests and special assistants to help with
problems. The kids are tested in school for hearing and vision
problems, and intelligence, psychological problems, whatever becomes
apparent. There are standardized tests every year to find if anyone is
not functioning at grade level. Parents are notified. My SIL worked
near one parent of that group. She held two jobs. She paid little
attention to her child. The child had been truant for two or three
months, but the parent said she was unaware. But she knew whe had to
send money for al these graduation goodies.
She was one of the first to leap in to sue the school system. Are
there any questions? Of course there are. Lots of them. Did the
schools do this/that/ ???? on and on. The thing is, sometimes a kid
has to do his own learning, himself. It helps if the parent will
encourage him to learn, but some kids do ok withoug parents. The legal
system is running the school systems, but it has no training in
education. Too much permissiveness from birth teaches nothing except
that he can do whatever or not do it.
What is really distressing is that now our school system has instigated
a policy that every child must be college bound, but not why.
That is as looney as social promotion. blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
obscured here, so passing judgement on numerous unknowns sheds no
light.
Seems that my state at least, aims to make certain that each child
receives a basic education necessary to function in the adult world.
Basic, includes reading, math enough to be able to balance your
checkbook, Civics enough to understand the voting process. HIstory to
match the Civics, writing enough to be able to express ones self to
other peeps. And enough science to be able to take cre of one's
health, and dangers of poisons, bleaches, etc. used in the household.
And this should be learned by eighth grade. Therefore there are tests
for progress each year. When a kid fails, he knows it. He can get help
if he knows enough to ask for it. Failures are pointed out to the
teachers to let them know where to direct their lessons. Blah.
sooner or later, we all have to do something ourselves.
Jim Chandler
> You sound like my Geography teacher...he did the same thing with his
> class..I did pass that one. He was also the basketball coach so he was
> probably more interested in coaching than teaching. But still....were you a
> teacher in this particular case that is being discussed? :)
>
Not in Texas, no, but a teacher nonetheless. Kids are pretty much the
same all over the country. I tried to make it as easy as I could on the
kids because my style of doing things was considerably different than
the regular teacher (who wasn't going to be re-hired the following year
because of the way he did (or didn't) things). Even then they wouldn't
do what was required and several of them failed. They really whined at
the end of school and wanted to make up several weeks of work in the
last day or two. I stood firm and said "NO!"
Jim
Jim Chandler
You, my dear lady, are right on the spot here. That is EXACTLY what is
happening. The legislature has made it so difficult for the schools to
hold the little darling's feet to the fire that they have all but given up.
Jim
Jim Chandler
BFD! They really don't care. They think that they don't really need it.
Jim
Jim Chandler
The liberal legislatures that have said that holding them back is bad
for their self esteem. When I came along you had to do something to
have some self esteem.
Jim
DittyDu...@webtv.net
me about being "abandoned" (my term) in school by their teacher
because they were not as quick as some of the other students. ONe
woman later found she was dyslexic.
Another told me she was judged EMR (educable but mentally retarded).
She really enjoyed reading fiction and was in every week or two to see
what was new.
One woman was teaching her husband to read. He had been in a large
family of a tenant farmer, and could not be spared from the work to go
to school a lot of the time. These people all treasured books.
One woman was just learning to read from the Literacy tutoring
offered here. The ones who did not learn to read well at first were at
a disadvantage the rest of their school years. The rural schools,
small systems, lacked the diagnostic tools that the larger systems had,
so a number of students were shortchanged on their educations, that
would have had their problems addressed in a more efficient system.
Yet, my feeling is that social promotion in some cases works well, but
in other cases just begets laziness. -- and with what small abount of
info we were given, that is what I suspect of the Austin cases. This
is a complex subject. Seems to me it is time to give the methods of
educating kids back to their local communities and the grass roots
people involved in the work. Presumably, includes parents, and not
allowing them to abdicate. Blake
Crusher
"**Dalin**" <lj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4658eb7d...@130.133.1.4...
> On Fri, 11 May 2007 17:02:04 -0500, JD Cooper <jus...@whatever.org>
> wrote:
>
>>Dink wrote:
>>
>>> Students in the Austin Independent School District who failed their last
>>> chance at the Texas academic proficiency exit exam will be allowed to
>>> don caps and gowns and cross the stage with their classmates and receive
>>> a 'certificate of participation' in lieu of a diploma.
>>
>>good fuckin' grief!
>>
>>well... the liberals will love this.
>>
>>JD
"The practice of self censorship is increasingly apparent here in Texas,
where battles over textbook content are epic. For years, publishers have
been held to the fire by conservatives who could make or break a textbook.
But now, critics say, publishers are allowing conservative groups likely to
raise the biggest fuss to discuss content before the books are made
available for public review."
--The Pew Forum, July 23, 2002
While you are as usual mindlessly blaming liberals for the flaws in
education (and almost anything else,) note that the religious right in
Texas has for years dictated the content of school books, usually to the
detriment of both fact and science.
--Bob--
pijoe
If conservatives have been dictating the contents of textbooks for
years, why was Texas #1 in edukashun when I was a lad, and now in the skid?
Jim Chandler
Then why is liberal Californicate's educational system so fucked up? It
is designed and run by liberals with little or no input from the
religious right or any other religious position.
Jim
Normandy
> Then why is liberal Californicate's educational system so fucked up? It
> is designed and run by liberals with little or no input from the religious
> right or any other religious position.
>
> Jim
In California is religion treated as a historical subject?
Sinclair
Wolfie
>
> - Show quoted text -
"The schools should not be passing kids who don't make the grade. "
Precisely! And they shouldn't be graduating those who didn't meet the
requirements for graduation.
Wolfie, et al
Barbara
Good morning!
The courage? Well...I began receiving SSI (welfare for disabled persons)
when I was 21. The Bur. of Voc. Rehab got involved to see what they could do
to get me to work. I never held a job...school was work enough. The BVR paid
to have some surgery done to correct some serious ear problems. Was given a
hearing aid which helped my self esteem some what.
So I started to Goodwill in Columbus Oh in 77. Received alot of
encouragement. And I threw away the attitude that many had given me and
started believing that I could do something! May be not a nurse, but
something close to the medical field.
After my stint in the rehab center, it was all good attitude from then on ;)
>
>
>>
>
Wolfie
What if they tried out for the track team and ran as fast as they
could but continually came in last? Should they earn a spot on the
track team because they tried?
Wolfie, et al
**Dalin**
But if they didn't care why would they have stayed in school when they
could have quit at 16? I think, if they were passed undeservedly all
along that they might think they were doing ok.
In high school you might fail French and pass History. So a student
really needs to count his credits to see if he has the minimum for
graduation. I think some kids don't understand that. They say "Well
French was an elective, so it doesn't count if I don't pass it."
Dalin
JD Cooper
Crusher wrote:
were you not quiet so uninformed, you might take a look at the excuses
we have for textbooks and see what it is the conservatives have
unsuccesfully fighting about all these years. Liberal revisionist
history, liberal no fail math, liberal mush everywhere. In fact,
conservaives have been unable to turn the tide on this bullshit.
JD
Seth Hammond
<DittyDu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16726-464...@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net...
Teachers can teach only to the extent of their abilities, but libraries here
are available to all. No one is 'held back' by others. We all pursue
knowledge to the extent of our own interests, and someone will always have
to dig the ditches.
Jean B.
> were you not quiet so uninformed, you might take a look at the excuses
> we have for textbooks and see what it is the conservatives have
> unsuccesfully fighting about all these years. Liberal revisionist
> history, liberal no fail math, liberal mush everywhere. In fact,
> conservaives have been unable to turn the tide on this bullshit.
>
> JD
>
been taught all along--thinking especially of history. I want
facts, as we know them. I would like to see a return to
unadorned basics (as a foundation), esp. in math (thinking off
all the new math schemes that are embraced for a few years and
then found to be wanting). Etc.
--
Jean B.
**Dalin**
wrote:
They aren't, they won't be getting a diploma. The school system
should never have let them get to be seniors in the first place. I
think the desire to have them stand with their class is a way of the
school system saving face too, not just trying to not embarrass the
kids.
Dalin
Seth Hammond
Home schooling makes more and more sense.
JD Cooper
Jean B. wrote:
not in Texas... the libreals are in charge of the school asylum. It was
the lunatic Perrot who caused the massive shift in public education back
in the early eighties... been a forever down hill slide ever since.
JD
JD
Wolfie
>
> "The schools should not be passing kids who don't make the grade. "
>
> >Precisely! And they shouldn't be graduating those who didn't meet the
> >requirements for graduation.
>
> >Wolfie, et al
>
> They aren't, they won't be getting a diploma. The school system
> should never have let them get to be seniors in the first place. I
> think the desire to have them stand with their class is a way of the
> school system saving face too, not just trying to not embarrass the
> kids.
>
> Dalin
There is, no doubt, some truth to what you say. But I am still
opposed to non-graduates walking with graduates. Why even bother with
a graduation ceremony? In fact, perhaps the members of the BOE need
to pass in review each graduation ceremony to explain why so many of
the "graduates" are undereducated at best, some even functionally
illiterate.
Wolfie, et al
DittyDu...@webtv.net
energy into it, the kid would learn something. Some kids who wont
practice enough to learn their multiplication tables are able to tell
you every program on tv and what time it comes on, and which days, and
who plays which character, and who is the director, or whatever info is
given in the credits.
Sure, some kids need help -- it's up to the parent to try to figure that
out and ask for help from the school system/teacher/ school nurse.
Some kids stay in school because they get free meals, they are told they
are supposed to stay, there is nothing much that interests them outside
of school -- there are enough deverse facets to schools to keep them
there, if it's only the basketball court, and the chance to know the
team members. or the cheerleaders.
Also the truant officers pick them up if they are caught on the street,
so school is better. If they would just listen in class instead of
having an earplug playing music, or reading comic books, or whatever,
they would learn something. A kid who stays in school, pays attention
in class, can't help learning something. If not, the child needs some
special eduction, and that problem is addressed.
It may be that he is actively NOT learning. blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
because they do not expect ever to have to work. And fringe group kids
who do not want any other kids to learn, either.
Some businessmen now say they would rather get an employee with a GED
than one with a HS diploma. Guess why.
blake
Wolfie
I'm with you on this, Blake. I was not a particularly good student in
high school but managed to get through all four years with above
average grades in most of my courses. But I also encountered failure
for the first time in my life, in freshman algebra. I repeated it
another year and got it the second time around. I also had to deal
with the head trips I put on myself for my failure. Part of growing
up, I think. Nobody held my hand or told me I would pass because I
was trying so hard. I flunked the class because I didn't get it.
Took it again and got it. I needed it to graduate.
I wouldn't want to be a kid now. Or a teacher. Way too
complicated.
Wolfie, et al
DittyDu...@webtv.net
here. When you get the looney liberal teachers into the teaching
jobs, then you get them on the textbook committees. Some subjects are
controversial, for instance, evolution, but that doesn't prevent a
child from learning to read, white legibly, memorize addition and
subtraction tables.== just basic stuff to build on. That seems to be
where a lot of the problems are. If a kid can't read well, how can he
figure out a sentence problem in math.
A step farther, some kids have trouble with True/False tests because
the teacher does not state the problems to be answered in absolutes, so
they think of alternatives to entirely true or entirely false.
Lots of facets to the complex education process.
But, seems to me, if more than half the eighth graders can pass the HS
proficiency test, then the seniors who can't pass it should not be
allowed to graduate until they can, if a HS diploma is going to certify
that the owner of one has a HS education.
blake
**Dalin**
wrote:
What a bit of good luck for you that you could receive SSI and they
wanted you off the rolls. I'm sure that's how the Rehab Bureau got
involved. :-) I'm so glad they paid for surgery and gave you a
hearing aid. I can see that it changed your life. So many people
with physical handicaps are treated as if they are mentally
handicapped when all along your problem was that you couldn't hear. I
think they test for that now in schools.
Dalin
Dink
They tested hearing and eyesight regularly when I was in school.
--
Dink
N 30.21, W 97.81 http://snipurl.com/whereiam
http://snipurl.com/austinweatherpixie
"Guns cause crime like wet sidewalks cause rain, cameras cause
pornography, and spoons cause Rosie to be fat and stupid."~~Neal Boortz
Jim Chandler
That's the problem. They worry too much about not embarrassing the
kids. Maybe if they called them up on stage and told the audience,
"This dummy isn't going to graduate but wants to walk with his class
anyway." some of them would be embarrassed enough to do the work when it
is assigned and maybe even learn somehting.
Jim
Jim Chandler
Unfortunately for the schoolees, in many cases the schoolers aren't any
better off than they are.
Jim
**Dalin**
wrote:
Of course not, but they aren't getting a diploma either. I just think
it's wrong to let them get that far, seniors, if they are doing so
poorly. Someone said (Jim?) that the kids can start taking this test
in the 8th grade and can keep repeating it. Well if they keep failing
it how did they get to be seniors? The school system should have
stopped them in their tracks a long time before then, but they didn't.
Dalin
Seth Hammond
"JD Cooper" <jus...@whatever.org> wrote in message
news:P_6dnTOi3uv4UNjb...@texas.net...
The University of Phoenix will sell you any degree you want. You don't even
have to attend classes. You don't even have to work at assignments if you
elect to be part of a group study plan. Someone else will do the work for
you. Grades are either Pass or Fail. I doubt anyone has ever failed. All
it takes is money, and Uncle Sugar will let you charge it.
I wouldn't hire any of their "graduates" to do my yard work.
>
Crusher
I did, dumass. I buy schoolbooks regularly. The Texas conservatives are
religious nuts who want the textbooks changed to reflect their religious
views. None of them are smart enough to understand or care about
"revisionist history."
If you knew anything about history you'd know that it IS revised regularly,
generally because of new findings, but often to remove known political,
social and religious biases from an earlier age.
--Bob--
Normandy
>
> I did, dumass. I buy schoolbooks regularly. The Texas conservatives are
> religious nuts who want the textbooks changed to reflect their religious
> views. None of them are smart enough to understand or care about
> "revisionist history."
>
> If you knew anything about history you'd know that it IS revised
> regularly, generally because of new findings, but often to remove known
> political, social and religious biases from an earlier age.
>
> --Bob--
is something entirely different Religion should not be taught in school save
as history. Religion has played such an important role in history it cannot
be neglected.
Sinclair
>
>
Dink
So they've wiped Washington, Adams, and Jefferson from our history books
to make room for Marin Luther King, Jr. and César Chávez.
Dink
This is what Bob is beefing about. There's some merit to his complaint;
but it has no bearing to the original subject re graduation ceremonies.
Texas Board of Education Honors Mel and Norma Gabler
by Molleen Matsumura
Originally published in RNCSE 19 (2): 6-7. The version on the web might
differ slightly from the print publication.
On May 7, the Texas Board of Education passed a resolution to "honor and
commend Mel and Norma Gabler of Longview, Texas for 38 years of
sacrificial service, both in textbook review and in the textbook
adoption process...."
Long time members of NCSE are familiar with the Gablers, whose
Texas-based organization Educational Research Analysts (ERA) has for
nearly 40 years been a major influence on textbook adoptions in Texas
(see for example RNCSE 11[3]:1,5). They have regularly appeared before
the State Board of Education, offering the "conservative, Christian
perspective" on content standards and textbook selections for every
subject in the K-12 curriculum. Their lobbying activities have
influenced other states as well: first, because other organizations -
such as the Eagle Forum - rely on their textbook analyses; and second,
because Texas is one of the nation's largest textbook purchasers, so
Texas standards affect the content of textbooks that will be used in
other states.
The Gablers have consistently opposed evolution. For example, in 1991,
when Texas Proclamation 66 required evolution as a major theme in
biology texts, pressure from the Gablers and other anti-evolutionists
led to a lastminute revision calling for inclusion of "scientific
evidence of evolution and other reliable scientific theories, if any"
(RNCSE 10[6]:10). In 1998, ERA rated textbooks according to how much
they "harp on" evolution (RNCSE 19[1]:10). In a section of their website
titled "God-given victories", they claim credit for a drop in sales of
the book which had received their lowest rating. To see this web page,
go to , click on "God-given Victories!", see subhead "credibility with
classroom teachers". The same document claims credit for "detection of
subtle subversion" in social studies texts.
Given the Gablers' long history of activism and their notoriety in their
home state, a public comment about them by even one member of the board
of education is a significant statement about the political climate and
future educational policy. The May 7 resolution honoring the Gablers is
not a good sign. Though the resolution does not refer directly to
science education, it notes that "textbook decisions made in Texas
greatly affect textbook selections elsewhere..." and praises the Gablers
for "critiqu[ing] textbooks and ... alert[ing] parents... concerning
textbook errors, omissions, contradictions, and detours...". Since the
Gablers have frequently claimed that evolution is erroneous, there is a
real question whether the hard-fought battle to include evolution in
Texas standards and textbooks, won in 1997, would have ended differently
if it had taken place after the 1998 elections. Certainly we will need
to be alert for attempts to introduce new antievolution policies.
**Dalin**
wrote:
That last would be a very good idea! They would probably blame the
parents who in turn blame the schools. It appears the kids are never
responsible.
Dalin
>
Crusher
>> "The practice of self censorship is increasingly apparent here in Texas,
>> where battles over textbook content are epic. For years, publishers have
>> been held to the fire by conservatives who could make or break a
>> textbook. But now, critics say, publishers are allowing conservative
>> groups likely to raise the biggest fuss to discuss content before the
>> books are made available for public review."
>>
>> --The Pew Forum, July 23, 2002
>>
>> While you are as usual mindlessly blaming liberals for the flaws in
>> education (and almost anything else,) note that the religious right in
>> Texas has for years dictated the content of school books, usually to the
>> detriment of both fact and science.
>>
>> --Bob--
>>
>>
>
>
> is designed and run by liberals with little or no input from the religious
> right or any other religious position.
>
> Jim
If that is the case then CA has it right. There is no reason whatever for
religion to have an input in the core curricula of any school anywhere.
Kids need a fact based education, not religious dogma and superstition.
Teach these medieval religions in church, not in our schools.
--Bob--
Crusher
"pijoe" <joseph...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Byb1i.14278$3P3....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Crusher wrote:
>>
>> While you are as usual mindlessly blaming liberals for the flaws in
>> education (and almost anything else,) note that the religious right in
>> Texas has for years dictated the content of school books, usually to the
>> detriment of both fact and science.
>>
>> --Bob--
>>
>>
> why was Texas #1 in edukashun when I was a lad, and now in the skid?
Apparently this conservative interference just arose when the recent
uprising in evangelical religion became popular- a decade or two at
most,long after anyone here was in school.
--Bob--
Joan F (MI)
**Dalin**
wrote:
The only thing we had checked were teeth! LOL! And we got a free
cleaning every year.
Dalin
**Dalin**
Think how embarrassing that would be for the educators. The more I
think about it the more I think they are letting the students who
failed walk with the class is so that people don't know how many
couldn't pass a simple exit test!
Dalin
DittyDu...@webtv.net
destructive. One reason for social promotion is that kids become better
at whatever they are trying by being in a group that is getting it a
little ahead of them. They learn from the gourp, and they compete with
kids a little better; while if they were competing with kids who didn't
get it and were at sea, too, there would be less to learn from the
group. Sometimes the problem is that a kid's brain needs another year
of maturation, but lots of reasons. It's up to the teacher to find out
why a kid is not learning and what he needs to help him.
I think most teachers enjoy seeing the kids learn and succeed. (ok
maybe some don't and are themselves competing with the kids) Some
teaches know their subject so well they can't teach it because they
can't reach back to beginner level.
All sorts of problems. Everybody has had a problem with something at
some time.
The kids are given these proficiency exams in several grades before
they get to grade 11. They know how they scored. They get to take the
exams over and over. The kid has to bring himself up to level. There
are some things you have to learn to do for yourself. In my case, we
had to drill drill drill on math or algebra or I forget what exactly.
The teach could explain how to do it. He could test us and see what we
were missing. But we had to buckle down and work on what it was
ourselves.
A kid has to learn study habits and memory tricks and start using them.
Memorizing is a skill that grows with practice, but it takes a will to
learn it.
A kid who doesn't want to learn it can be stuck in a job of repetitive
tasks and still s succeed to a point. And maybe he will be happy
there. It does give some security.
blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
shots, and some test for headlice. (headlights, say the kids). The
very small schools do not have this available. But a teacher who
suspects a need can always alert the parents. Some parents don't
understand though. There are many problems. I had an employee once who
had just graduated from HS, and everytime something happened he didn't
like, he would kidk the furniture or break something. My supv. had
hired him and I inherited. So I made the supv. fire him. I didn't want
him kicking me or socking me in the jaw.
blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
through the graduation ceremony, even though he has completed all the
work required for a degree.
OTOH, the students shouldn't get away with embarrassing the school
system by refusing to learn when they are able to and have all the
facilities, special help and attention that they need. They enjoy the
athletic programs and being a football hero, and bringing glory to the
school. Then that is all they care about, and are interested only in
the college athletic scholarship. Then when they get there, they can't
pass basic English. So they get tutors on and on.
blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
state mandated exams , just as regular school does. Teacher's manuals,
and coaching available from the publisher and the state. THere are
organized gatherings on special subjects where they meet other home
schoolers. The home schooled kids usually place as high or higher than
the public school kids. Most of the ones i have met who home school
their kids are as educated as most of the graduates coming out of
college nowadays. I don't knwo if there is a degree requirement to
home school. Folks meow and yammer about home school inferiority don't
know anything about it, really. They yell about socialization, but I
can't see that public school socialization is all that desireable.
One of the biggest complaints I have heard is " these people home school
their children to indoctrinate them in their own brand of religion.
Maybe a few, do., but it is not in the curriculum mandated by the state.
The home schooled kids never learn to curse as well as the socialized
ones, and they don't get beaten up by bullies or have their lunch
money and shoes stolen. Public schools are forced to waste so much
time in moving groups around to lunch, or bathrooms, and straightening
out disruptive kids, and checking everyone's homework, putting kids on
the bus, or meeting them when they get off the bus; where time spent
with only one kid is more efficient. Foks who travel regularly can take
the kids along and not miss any classtime. There are lots of reasons
to home school besides those of religion.
At least home schoolers know how well their kids are doing in school,
which is more than many public school parents say and insist they didn't
know.
blake
Dink
Home schooled kids _always_ place higher than their Ritalin-doped public
school counterparts.
Crusher
Interesting thread, but lacking in a significant fact. Someone produce a
poll or some conclusive evidence that the parents who want their kids to get
grades and diplomas for little or no work are more likely to be liberals
than conservatives. Seems to me that the parents of kids headed for college
are at least as interested in cheating the system as those whose kids are
considering other careers. This does not appear to be a political issue.
--Bob--
Crusher
"Normandy" <aab...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:4645f7c5$0$5098$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
Yes, I know. I spent an entire quarter in Art History studying church
architecture and altarpieces. There was little other worthwhile art or
science done from about 400CE to about 1400CE, thanks to religion's
dictatorial domination of European society during this period.
--Bob--
Seth Hammond
I doubt that very much. It is my understanding that state tests must be
taken periodically. Is that not the case?
It seems only likely and logical that standards must be met.
**Dalin**
this group can turn anything into a political issue. <g>
Since the thread was originally about whether kids who didn't earn
their diploma should walk across the stage and accept a "fake" one
with the rest of their class who are earning a real diploma, what are
you talking about when you say parents of college bound kids are as
interested in cheating the system as those etc. ?
Dalin
>
**Dalin**
Look up Home Schooling on Google. I did and was amazed at the help
out there, the home schooling now can go through senior year of high
school. I still don't know how they cover the lab work at home, I
didn't spend a whole lot of time investigating, but home schooled
students still have to pass all the state tests (some states don't
have them, just local tests). But you can home school a child now all
the way through high school. And because parents pay school taxes
their kids can still avail themselves of extracurricular activities at
their local school and maybe even a classroom or two. Which may be
how they handle the science labs.
Dalin
Jean B.
> The teachers have committees , caucuses, etc. to select the textbooks
> here. When you get the looney liberal teachers into the teaching
> jobs, then you get them on the textbook committees. Some subjects are
> controversial, for instance, evolution, but that doesn't prevent a
> child from learning to read, white legibly, memorize addition and
> subtraction tables.== just basic stuff to build on. That seems to be
> where a lot of the problems are. If a kid can't read well, how can he
> figure out a sentence problem in math.
>
> A step farther, some kids have trouble with True/False tests because
> the teacher does not state the problems to be answered in absolutes, so
> they think of alternatives to entirely true or entirely false.
>
> Lots of facets to the complex education process.
>
> But, seems to me, if more than half the eighth graders can pass the HS
> proficiency test, then the seniors who can't pass it should not be
> allowed to graduate until they can, if a HS diploma is going to certify
> that the owner of one has a HS education.
> blake
>
Ah, yes, re the true-false questions. That posed great
problems for me, and now for Leah. Sometimes you know the
answer they probably are looking for, but you also know it is
wrong....
--
Jean B.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
I did, dumass. I buy schoolbooks regularly. The Texas conservatives are
religious nuts who want the textbooks changed to reflect their religious
views. None of them are smart enough to understand or care about
"revisionist history."
If you knew anything about history you'd know that it IS revised
regularly, generally because of new findings, but often to remove known
political, social and religious biases from an earlier age.
Bob--
That is exactly what we object to.
Biases from an earlier age are part of history. The new revised history
is what is poltically correct at the moment.
A good teacher could explain the new theories, if the teacher is up on
history.
It is too soon to revise history while there are still people living
who can recall the facts. For one point.
For another point, whose place is it to decide what is a bias and what
was the general consensus at the time. It becomes a bias only if it
does not run the same grain as present thinking.
Same thing I said to Richared when he wrote about the black guy who told
him he was in the D Day landing. That will be found in the library and
reworked and re written as history, then handed down to the next
"historian" as absolute fact.
Just like our local tourist trap that will tell you that a certain
"basement " was a station on the underground railroad. All the tourists
don't know the difference. It has been touted on TV as fact. But when
the tour company first began using this, the local historians who had
researched the neighborhood, the owners of the house, etc. said it is
highly unlikely that this house and its basement was used for that.
They cited reasons for this thinking to back up the facts they had about
the place and the times. So of course, right now Black history is an
object of much attention, and any article pertaining to it sells and
gets published and republished, I just used that example as what I see
of what has happened here. The writers often subtly enter their own
points of view, to help the sales along.
I dont' trust all this revised history at all, and think it is a big
mistake to put it into school. I don't trust some of the "finding of
new facts", and think it is a mistake to assume they are facts at this
point.
It is further confusing to a kid to read that "every schoolboy should
know" about for instance, we were taught Betsy Ross sewed the first
flag. The kid wonders who was Betsy Ross? I was in Williamsburg and
one of the re enactors told me her story how the slaves taught the
settlers how to grow corn. I thought that was at least misleading.
Corn as we know it is indiginous to the New World. What the Europeans
call corn is different grain. Barley ? maybe?? I dunno, but they
call our corn maize, IIRC. So many little picky details change the
stories around to the writers POV. I think revised history should be
tossed out entirely. But I have no power to do it. I can only tell
folks to cling to their encyclopedia of the nineteen thirties, and if
they want modern info invest in technology books, as that is where the
real new stuff is.
blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
--The Pew Forum, July 23, 2002
While you are as usual mindlessly blaming liberals for the flaws in
education (and almost anything else,) note that the religious right in
Texas has for years dictated the content of school books,
--Bob--
So they've wiped Washington, Adams, and Jefferson from our history books
to make room for Marin Luther King, Jr. and César Chávez.
Dink
Then my third grade grandkid came home with a reader that taught the
Civil War was fought only because all the south wanted slaves, so
slavery was the only cause. And that General Forrest was a slave
dealer, so his name should be expunged from the elementary schools, and
the streets, and wherever it appears.
It is really goofy when they revise it.
Makes no difference if the author has a PhD in underwater baketweaving
or something, if he writes an article to say that you can lose weight by
eating a dill pickle before each meal, there are folks who will believe
him. Maybe what he reallly meant was INstead of each meal, but that is
what folks read into it.
I believe you can get your history revised to say anything you want, if
you have enough money to pay for the reivision and enough sales force to
sell it.
I wonder how many kids ever heard of Tesla. blahblaahblahhhh
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Should it mean socialization? They hven't yet agreed upon what they
want it tto do.
If it means nothing, why not just give them all certs of participation.
Then the ones who can read may figure out they've been had.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Home schooled kids _always_ place higher than their Ritalin-doped public
school counterparts.
Dink
Hahahahahaha. They do place rather high usually.
Seems to me if the teachers wer able to condition them to good classroom
behavior from day one in school, the ritalin might not be necessary.
Can you imagine this? More than half of one study hall my SIL had
were getting ritalin.
Crusher
<DittyDu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14212-464...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
>
>
>
> I did, dumass. I buy schoolbooks regularly. The Texas conservatives are
> religious nuts who want the textbooks changed to reflect their religious
> views. None of them are smart enough to understand or care about
> "revisionist history."
>
>
>
>
> If you knew anything about history you'd know that it IS revised
> regularly, generally because of new findings, but often to remove known
> political, social and religious biases from an earlier age.
> Bob--
>
> That is exactly what we object to.
> Biases from an earlier age are part of history. The new revised history
> is what is poltically correct at the moment.
> A good teacher could explain the new theories, if the teacher is up on
> history.
> It is too soon to revise history while there are still people living
> who can recall the facts. For one point.
> For another point, whose place is it to decide what is a bias and what
> was the general consensus at the time. It becomes a bias only if it
> does not run the same grain as present thinking.
Perhaps a simple example would be to compare a civil war history written in
the South in the thirties with one written today. The history written in
the thirties would almost certainly contain a white bias about the reasons
for slavery and the conditions under which the war was fought. The further
historians get from current events the better and more impartial their
history becomes.
In a recent course in Greek mythology we studied the "history" of it as
written by Hesiod, Sophocles and other authors of the day. Their accounts
of the actions of the Greek heroes like Zeus, Achilles and others were told
as factual stories of gods and humans, much as the Bible talks of Jesus and
others. We now know that their gods were mythical creatures and current
history deals with them as such. Would you really like to read (and
presumably believe) Hesiods account of the Greek gods without modern
interpretation?
We have no way of knowing whether past histories were in fact a "consensus
of the time" or, more likely, an interpretation of a limited number of
events as understood by the historian, given the general knowledge of the
day. Would you like to try navigating with a 14th C world map? Do you
really believe we can't get an accurate history of WWII battles because
there are still survivors?
--Bob--
Crusher
Note the first line in Wolfie's message above. Perhaps you remember the
retired basketball player from UTenn who went back to school to learn how to
read, even though he had a college degree. Note the title of the thread.
Note that we have all manner of people manipulating grades and credentials,
among the most egregious of those are coaches and administrators
manipulating the grades of athletes. They certainly aren't "liberals."
--Bob--
--Bob--
Joan F (MI)
choice was the least bad answer. Others who have taken it confirm my
impression.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
do want their kids to get a good education.
Some parents think the kids can do it by themselves all the way, and
don't realize what their support means. blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Re: Looney lefty liberalism strikes again
Group: alt.fifty-plus.friends Date: Sat, May 12, 2007, 5:28pm (CDT+1)
From: nospam...@roadrunner.com (Crusher)
I am glad to hear you say this, because I was thinking you
thought religion entirely worthless. Did you go into Irish art of 400
CE wasn't it? Or maybe not. It just amazed me that they were still
living in rock huts, when I saw some pics of them, and yet they did
amazing things by candle light. Or maybe I am way off. It has been a
long time since I thought of it.
It just amazed me to see my MIL's nose and likeness in one of the
stained glass windows of a cathedral somewhrere in Germany? I forget.
I just like to look and think of how they put things together to last.
And now the houses they built following WWW II are falling apart.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
That is exactly what we object to.
Biases from an earlier age are part of history. The new revised history
is what is poltically correct at the moment. A good teacher could
explain the new theories, if the teacher is up on history.
It is too soon to revise history while there are still people living who
can recall the facts. For one point. For another point, whose place is
it to decide what is a bias and what was the general consensus at the
time. It becomes a bias only if it does not run the same grain as
present thinking. blake
------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps a simple example would be to compare a civil war history written
in the South in the thirties with one written today. The history written
in the thirties would almost certainly contain a white bias about the
reasons for slavery and the conditions under which the war was fought.
The further historians get from current events the better and more
impartial their history becomes.
Well, Bob, FYI I went to school in the south in the thirties. History
books were published in the north. Far as I know there were only local
histories in the south.
I went to a Teacher's Training School connected to a college. THe
thirties were the deepest Depression years, so we did not get new books,
We used what the previous generation used. Mine stopped with the
beginning of WWI. Our teachers all had at least Masters degrees, and
had traveled extensively, at least to Europe. The older ones could
remember the days following the Civil War that they had lived through.
The teachers had to teach from lectures, charts, maps on a rollershade
device, Outside reading from the library, and outside resource people
on a lecture circuit whenever they were available. One lady who was the
County Historian and who lived in the oldest house in the county would
regularly come and bring pictures and tell us about the book she was
writing. The teachers were forbidden by state law to teach the theory
of evolution, but they explained what it was and what scientists
thought about it, and that it was a theory -- and explained what a
theory is. In showing how the animals had turned out in an isolated
continent of Australia, we became acquainted with the duck billed
platypus and the tasmanian devil. (is that the name?)
Sure. We learned about slavery and indenttured servitude and how a very
large number of original immigrants arrived here indentuted in order
to pay their passage over from the Old World. An indenture was about
the same as slavery for the duration, and that slaves were usually freed
when they became too old to do the work any more, so were kept on the
farm to spend their remaining years. We learned about Free Men and
Freed Men. Women, too were indentured.
We learned about Pirates and sailors captured sold into slavery, and
about the Barbary Coast and how some were shanghaied and woke up on a
ship.
We were told about HBStowe the abolitionists and Uncle Tom's Cabin which
was written to promote their cause. Our teacher said it was largely
propaganda and used for the purpose of inflaming emotions to the
abolitionist movement, since slaveholding was not restricted to the
south and many many non southern people had slaves. The ones who lived
in cities had them as house servants, where they had no fields to
work. Slavery had been legal, so there was no mea culpa about it. Two
of our lunchroom cooks were colored and so was our custodian, janitor.
The rich kids had maids and chauffers and yardmen who were colored.
Those lived on the premises in servant's houses behind the main house.
A lot of the kids had colored maids who came to help do the heavy
spring cleaning == and who always brought their kids to work, or maids
who would come and the ironing once a week. So most kids played with
the maid's children on that day.
What you imagine about the south,or what you have been told and
believe is history is nothing as I experienced it.
Only you and those educated like you feel any need to apologize for
slavery. The yankee ships brought the slaves and they got rich bringing
them, I suppose. You will be told that the first slaves arrived at
Jamestown in 1607. True, the first black or darkys or whatever name
you choose arrived in 1619 as indentures on a Dutch ship from the
islands. But that will be revised shortly, no doubt.
------------------------------
I sorta gather that you write Josephus off as unbelievable. I think I
read somewhere that the Jews don't care much for him either, as he was a
turncoat or something--at any rate, he betrayed his own people, whether
you classify Jews as a race or a religion, and whether you
think he wrote accurate history or not.
Well, it's your choice Blake
------------------
In a recent course in Greek mythology we studied the "history" of it as
written by Hesiod, Sophocles and other authors of the day. Their
accounts of the actions of the Greek heroes like Zeus, Achilles and
others were told as factual stories of gods and humans, much as the
Bible talks of Jesus and others. We now know that their gods were
mythical creatures and current history deals with them as such. Would
you really like to read (and presumably believe) Hesiods account of the
Greek gods without modern interpretation?
We have no way of knowing whether past histories were in fact a
"consensus of the time" or, more likely, an interpretation of a limited
number of events as understood by the historian, given the general
knowledge of the day. Would you like to try navigating with a 14th C
world map? Do you really believe we can't get an accurate history of
WWII battles because there are still survivors?
--Bob-- ---------------------------
I believe we can't get an accurate history of WWII UNLESS there are
survivors.
Blake
sparky
> On 11 May 2007 16:43:10 -0700, sparky <sparky...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On May 11, 7:25 pm, **Dalin** <l...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >wonder why they even bothered trying if everyone can go the
> >same graduation ceremony even if they did not work hard.
> >Socialism at its finest.
>
> What if they did work hard?
> Dalin
Obviously not hard enough if they did not pass!
Joan F (MI)
are lacking the ability to empathize.
Jean B.
survivor. I was going to say the best source might be the
writings of the major players, but maybe there are
self-serving distortions, or the person's memory is incorrect.
I dunno.... As for maps--there's the tangible vs. the
intangible....
--
Jean B.
sparky
wrote:
> You are not taking into account differences in abilities. Apparently you
> are lacking the ability to empathize.
I really do lack the ability to see why students who actually passed
the examination should have their pride reduced to zero by being
placed in the same group as those who failed the test.
Why does the left reward failure?
Jim Chandler
Ability to empathize and the NEED to empathize are two different things.
These students don't need empathy, they need a kick in the butt to jump
start them.
Jim
Jim Chandler
Look at it this way, Joan. If I took your state bar exam and didn't
pass, should they allow me to practice law because I TRIED? I don't
think so.
Jim
Wolfie
> "**Dalin**" <l...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:464efcb0...@130.133.1.4...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12 May 2007 08:21:59 -0700, Wolfie <dplusone...@netscape.net>
"This does not appear to be a political issue."
I'm still thinking about this, Bob. I have a feeling there are a LOT
of politics involved in the condition of our educational system. I
doubt that all the problems could be lain at the feet of one specific
political persuasion , but I think a lot of the policies speak pretty
much for themselves. As for bilking the system, I don't know that you
could apply a political stripe to that, either. After all, we haven't
even begun to consider the athletes that get "specially" passed so
they can get into the majors and make millions. The political
motivation of that particular failure is totally different than that
of the "Self Esteem is more important than responsibility" bunch. And
they ALL add up to an extremely weak future for America.
Wolfie, et al
**Dalin**
<nospam...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
I don't see how the parents are cheating though. It's the coaches and
admins who want to keep their top athletes. They let them slide
through the courses so they can stay on the team.
Dalin
>