Goodnight and good luck
Ricardo
on how the right wing stirs unfounded fears to minipulate the American
public to advance its evil and selfish ways. Then it was communism, now
its terrorism. Latino migration is nothing more than an extention of
unfounded emotional fears created by right wing propagandist on a
gullible public who would rather watch American Idol than have a
quality American history lesson on the History Channel. We live in sad
times. Edward R. Murrow said it more than fifty years ago. Let us
admire his courage. AND...of course he was a good ole North Carolina
boy from Greensboro. :-).
JD Cooper
> Latino migration is
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
JD
Ricardo
LOL....what a joke. You screaming your head off. I like the excuse
given of national security and depressed wages. I bet out of twenty
million undocument Latinos in the US,
the right wing could not prove one case in a reasonable setting. Just
like 1954, its all a smokescreen for evil perpetuated on gullible
people by right wing extremist. I just hope this country can save
itself from this ideology before its too late.
JD Cooper
Ricardo
I just read yesterday the Federal government was scratching its head on
how to contain forest fires in the western states without undocumented
Latino labor. Well...no need to scratch...it ain't going to do
anything. What you gonna do put the Federal government in jail since
its the largest employer of undocumented labor (abeit subcontracting)?
Instead of screaming at me for exposing the truth the last five years
why don't yall scream at the the Federal government and your silly
congressmen you voted to run the country. I saw the mayor of Los
Angelas yesterday on TV. He said can you believe these dumb
congressmen? They pander to these crazies about the southern border yet
leave ports of entry including mine open to all sorts of real threats
of security. Wind bags..lol. What can you say.
JD Cooper
Ricardo wrote:
> LOL..LOL...keep on screaming. It just exposes the hypocracy of it all.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
JD
Séimí mac Liam
@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> LOL..LOL...keep on screaming. It just exposes the hypocracy of it all.
>
Speaking of hypocracy, care to translate that adertising banner you're
pictured in front of on the pictures page, just for the unilingual dolts
out there, doncha know?
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Ricardo
now what sense does that make? if up to now you too lazy to learn a
second language,
now is the time to start. We in a global economy, doncha know?
Ricardo
Ricardo wrote:
>
Well...back to the thread title. There is a parallel of today's
scare/fear to that of 1954.
And it was the same ole crowd....just their children this time :-).
sixti...@yahoo.com
The Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock is an example of illegal
immigration.
sixti...@yahoo.com
You're such a tool.
JD Cooper
pijoe
Dumbo. There *were* Communists in government and in Hollywood. McCarthy
was a hero. There *are* illegal immigrants in our country driving up
taxes, using our social handout system, and taking up room in our jails.
Get legal, or get out.
JD Cooper
Ricardo wrote:
I read the banner. It says novel stuff. It says, "death to America! this
land is Mexico! die, gringos! die!"
JD
JD Cooper
sixti...@yahoo.com wrote:
Fool. There was no sovereign nation at the time the Spanish or English
or Dutch (etc.) came here.
Get a grip.
Fool.
JD
JD Cooper
pijoe
"Communism is like vegetarianism in that it's not very good for most
people, but leftists continue to defend it because it seems like the
thing to do."
pijoe
> LOL..LOL...keep on screaming. It just exposes the hypocracy of it all.
> I just read yesterday the Federal government was scratching its head on
> how to contain forest fires in the western states without undocumented
> Latino labor. Well...no need to scratch...it ain't going to do
> anything
Americans will do *any* job wetbacks do if they are paid a fair wage. As
long as Pedro and Jose are willing to work for 3 bucks an hour and a
bottle of Tequila, it ain't gonna happen.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
hosts about illegals, now that the story has got the media attention,
the stories will snowball
Lady with a sandwich board was walking near latino district-- sign said
in Spanis that illegals can, too buy houses here without having to
show proof of how they got here, legally.
I would say the competition has arrived, here at least.
The teacher whose young student was shot dead in the street told me
that it was his own fault, really. He and his buddy were trying to rob
three Mexicans. If it hadn't been he, it would have been one of the
Mexicans-- his own buddy shot him. So the accomplice will be in
prison awhile. The teacher feels sorry for his grandmother, who is
trying to rear his little brother, witout much more luck, as he seems
headed in the same direction. So far, not quite June, and we have
already had 68 homicides before school is out for the summer. It will
be long and hot. Blake.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Spanish ithe kids are speaking is no more correct than ebonics is to
English. So even learning a second language doesn't necessarily mean
you can communicate]]
Of course I coulcn't know if is as the New Orleans French is to France,
or the Quebecian French, which I have been told has an odd accent,
making it hard to understand.
Two illegals were just apprehended here for prying open a train track
switch and damaging it to the extent it would have derailed the next
train. This was in an affluent suburb bedroom community, and would
probably have lots of justifiyableoutrage going soon, demands to find
out who employed these two, who were doing that on their lunch hour,
find out how they got here, who brought them, They will be deported.
Blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
JD
The Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock is an example of illegal
immigration.
I believe America had been claimed by exploreres for their king, and
Plymouth Rock was part of America at the time, although I have
forgotten the particulars.
A good lawyer can sort through it and make a case if you are willing t
to pay.
Furthermore, I have just learned that Columbus's original expedition was
finance not because Queen Isabella hocked her jewels on the long shot
that he would bring back new land rights., but rather by the
confiscation of all the riches of the Spanish Jews their regime seized
after ousting all the Jews from Spain. -- If they were the ones she
hocked her jewels to, perhaps they took the jewels with them when they
left?????? A good lawyer can make a case , , , , , , , , ,
I understand the rabbis have been exhorting them not to assimilate.
And those Dutch crooks who bought Manhatten Island for $24 should be
prosecuted for the biggest swindle
of the last millenium, even though all the witnesses are dead. Maybe
we can dig someone up who kept hold of the traded goods. and a good
lawyer can make a case , , , , , , , , How much do you think the
present owner will sell out for?????
sixti...@yahoo.com
that wasn't a compliment, idiot.
sixti...@yahoo.com
The Indian confederations might have argued with you on that point.
But, I forgot, colonizing, terrorizing, and wiping out indigenous
people is OK when one has manifest destiny on their side.
sixti...@yahoo.com
pijoe wrote:
"McCarthy was a hero."
He was a liar, a cheat, a scoundrel, and did far more harm than any
good he ever did in his lifetime.
Do you see how stupid and ridiculous you make yourself out to be by
declaring that psychomaniac to be a "hero"?
But...heck, I gues one can't expect much more from someone who still
believes that the US was correct to invade Iraq.
Jean B.
Very lucky that was discovered before calamity struck. It
will be interesting to hear what they have to say.
--
Jean B.
JD Cooper
JD Cooper
sixti...@yahoo.com wrote:
hahahahaha!
Fool!
There was no such thing as "Indian confederations". There were only a
half million cave men devided into a few hundred "tribes" who mostly
fought each other.
Fool!
JD
sixti...@yahoo.com
"It is interesting to note that the first written constitution in
North America appeared before Columbus....The Gayaneshagowa, or Great
Binding Law of the Five Nations, was a written constitution created by
the Iroquois [which] enunciated such democratic ideas and doctrines as
initiative, recall, referendum, and equal suffrage. It provided the
type of central government that would later be suggested by Benjamin
Franklin to the colonies as an institution worthy of
emulation....[T]the Iroquois Constitution provided a written preview of
some of the governmental values later adopted by the whites in
America..." *
*Deloria, Vine, Jr. and Clifford Lytle. American Indians, American
Justice. Austin: University of Texas Press, 1983.
Lonestar
JD Cooper
Such rubbish as presented by you, if true, was but a small parcel
between a few local tribes. The rest of the cave men, them included, did
*not* have a sovereign nation. Therefore, there were *no* illegal
immigrants to this soil.
JD
Ricardo
huh...i believe the job pays $10.00 and hour to start and increases to
$20.00 per hour based on experience. When you gonna start?
sixti...@yahoo.com
I've tried to think of a nice way to say this, but when I read remarks
like yours above, there really is only one comment that will do.
You are so fucking ignorant.
Ricardo
LOL..LOL...there's more than one!
DittyDu...@webtv.net
the Iriquois? What is it written on? I have heard of "string talk"
used by the Indians== don't know what tribes used it === seems like it
was plains Indians.
pijoe
pijoe
Try quoting all of my post and show me where I'm wrong. If that's all
you can comment on, you're just a braying ass.
Lonestar
> pijoe wrote:
>
>>Ricardo wrote:
>>
>>
>>>LOL..LOL...keep on screaming. It just exposes the hypocracy of it all.
>>>I just read yesterday the Federal government was scratching its head on
>>>how to contain forest fires in the western states without undocumented
>>>Latino labor. Well...no need to scratch...it ain't going to do
>>>anything
>>
>>Americans will do *any* job wetbacks do if they are paid a fair wage. As
>>long as Pedro and Jose are willing to work for 3 bucks an hour and a
>>bottle of Tequila, it ain't gonna happen.
>
Ricardo sez:
> huh...i believe the job pays $10.00 and hour to start and increases to
> $20.00 per hour based on experience. When you gonna start?
Where do I get an application? Do I have to relocate? Is there a "moving
allowance"? Do I have to sit thru a breakfast at the Redneck Cafe every
mornin? I don't speak Mexican, so can ya git me a good deal on a house?
Can ya also send me applications for Free Medicine, Free
Hospitalization? Free Food? Free Education for my kids iffn me and Judy
git frisky? Since I don't drink the Tequilla, can ya credit that to my
paycheck? Can I get Free Bankin?
Roberto, Not yer Hermano....
Lonestar
sixtiesgen spouted:
> I've tried to think of a nice way to say this, but when I read remarks
> like yours above, there really is only one comment that will do.
>
> You are so fucking ignorant.
Is that the extent of yer Bi credintials?
Robert(Tx)
Lonestar
Ricardo spoke with NC Craker experience:
> LOL..LOL...there's more than one!
>
Yep, It takes one to know one....
Robert(Tx)
Ricardo
LOL....YOU ain't gonna fight no forest fire and know nobody who will,
ya quazy thing...LOL..LOL. AND if you don't speak Spanish where you
live you orta be ashamed of yeself. :-)
Ricardo
never given much thought about as well. Heck i was just a little boy at
the time. The ACLU, which is nothing more than an organization
dedicated to protecting peoples civil rights, was being blasted at that
time (1954) as a communist organization.
For protecting citizens of this great country against tyrannical
powers, it was being called a name perceived by the public as something
dirty.
Can you comprehend such craziness? Its like if you can't bring yourself
to call yourself Christian, you are called an atheiest, no matter how
religious you are. It's like you cannot be just a human being trying to
get thru this life without conflict, you got to be something to hate.
JD Cooper
Me? Dear boy! Show me proof there was a soverign nation on the continent
at the time of Columbus.
JD
pijoe
> Watching the movie also confirmed some things about the right wing i'd
> never given much thought about as well. Heck i was just a little boy at
> the time. The ACLU, which is nothing more than an organization
> dedicated to protecting peoples civil rights, was being blasted at that
> time (1954) as a communist organization.
So tell me the last time the ACLU defended a 2nd Amendment case?
Séimí mac Liam
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:
23 of the 24 founding members of the ACLU were members of the Communist
party. Wonder why they might be thought to be a communist organization.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
DittyDu...@webtv.net
this area who would be glad for a firefigter's job, if they would pay
carfare and furnish tents or some kind of bunks when they get there,
and meals. They could just run a bus from here and pick up some in NW
Miss. School is out and they ready to go. They momma would make 'em
go.
Trouble is they don't speak Mexican. Blah
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Re: Goodnight and good luck
Group: alt.fifty-plus.friends Date: Tue, May 30, 2006, 5:18am (CDT-2)
From: rll...@triad.rr.com (Ricardo)
never given much thought about as well. Heck i was just a little boy at
the time. The ACLU, which is nothing more than an organization dedicated
to protecting peoples civil rights, was being blasted at that time
(1954) as a communist organization.
For protecting citizens of this great country against tyrannical powers,
it was being called a name perceived by the public as something dirty.
Aw, c'mon -- You know communism is bad and we are good so we can't
tolerate it. Same for Socialism It is communism, it is bad, and we
are good, so we can't tolerate it.
- - - - - - - But if you don't call yourse'f Christian, then you must
be a Jew. WAnt to bash that around awhile?????
Can you comprehend such craziness? Its like if you can't bring yourself
to call yourself Christian, you are called an atheiest, no matter how
religious you are. It's like you cannot be just a human being trying to
get thru this life without conflict, you got to be something to hate. I
wouldn't say "hate" exzackly. It's just the pecking order.
Now the social engineers don't recognize pecking order, with their
de-humanizing requirements. We are all expected to react like machines.
Then they are puzzled when everybody doesn't fall into line.
Are you a Latino Power pusher??
You will find that when they get to calling the shots they won't be any
better than what we've got. They won't be on your side , either
Ricardo
i don't know. Maybe you could ask an ACLU member or chek their website
or something close.
Ricardo
i did not know that. Maybe you could point me toward these men of
greatness. I lack any knowlege of communism.
Ricardo
i don't know. Maybe you could check their website or something like it.
Séimí mac Liam
@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Or maybe you could do your own research.
JD Cooper
which he speaks.
JD
DittyDu...@webtv.net wrote:
"It is interesting to note that the first written constitution in
Ricardo
JD Cooper wrote:
> The fool has published a moron's statment. There is no such thing of
> which he speaks.
>
> JD
>
pijoe
The answer is--NEVER.
JD Cooper
The subject of the movie was abandoned. We were epasking of the idiot
"sistygen"s assertion that Columbus was greeted by Iroquois indians who
had a written constitution.... now bare in mind that Columbus landed on
some island in the carribian sea.
That "sixytiesgen" guy is a real nut case.
JD
DittyDu...@webtv.net
have ya seen "Goodnight and Good Luck." How many have seen it?
The subject of the movie was abandoned. We were epasking of the idiot
"sistygen"s assertion that Columbus was greeted by Iroquois indians who
had a written constitution.... now bare in mind that Columbus landed on
some island in the carribian sea.
That "sixytiesgen" guy is a real nut case.
JD
The revisionists will say anything to advance their twisted reworking of
history. Pity the kids have no memories, so they don't recognize it when
it's done. Neither do foreighners. It's just another method of
tearing any unity of the American people. Keep them confused, keep
telling them what you want them to believe, distract their attention,
stir their beliefs up, and twist them around. Now no one knows who they
are any more because of the limp wrist education system that is trying
to teach socialization, self esteem, and how to use all the electronic
gadgets whether anyone learns how to formulate an intelligent sentence,
or thought, or spell, or do math wihtout a machine, or write with ink
on paper. Some are taught how to fill out an application. If they
don't know the answer to a question, they ust put N/A, meanining "not
applicble". If they can pass the drug test, they assume they''ve got
the job. Blah
DittyDu...@webtv.net
language until Sequoia, ( can't recall how to spell his name) but he was
a Cherokee chief. The Cherokee language seems to have been derived from
the Iroquois, but they were far removed from the New England states.
Anyway, chief S. managed to make a written language of the Cherokee,
some years after the selttlers had been here and some of the trappers
and traders had married into the tribes. I believe they had a sign
language that let them communicate, but I never delved into that very
far.
Today's paper had an obit of a Navajo who had married a Tenn. girl and
move to east Tenn. He had been one of the Code Talkers during WWII
that the Japanese could not decipher. He was survived by a son. I
wonder if the son can talk the talk. I think his name was Yazzie,
I recall when we first moved to Las Vegas, somewhere we came to some
Indians sitting outside their hogans, and my dad was talking to them.
Aunt Mattie was trembling and scared. She was from Illinois where the
Sioux I guess it was the Sioux) had evidently frightened her when she
was a child. She told about how they would do bird calls outside at
night to signal each other, but you couldn't tell it was not a real
bird. So they lived in fear that some would come into the house. She
also told of how, when a prairire fire came, they knew to lie down in
shallow water of the creek or lake or bog, and breathe through a reed.
How they could tie a rope around their horses and hang on the side away
from you and get close and pull up and shoot over the horse's back.
Nevada had been a state only a short time when we moved there. Also, it
wasn't so long after Geronimo had been captured. I think he was an
Apache, but don't recall. My dad had to soothe Aunt Mattie and explain
that the Navajo were friendly and not at all bloodthirsty, and made
beautiful rugs and jewelry. She was glad when he was ready to take her
back to L.V. the town.
I recall during WWII being so scared at times that we wouldn't win== so
many of the kids I went to school with were being killed. Seems like
it was not until the war was over or almost over before it was announced
that the Navajo Code Breakers had been so cleverly deployed, as the
Navajo language is supposed to be so complex it is difficult to learn,
even from another Navaho, and there is no written language. I wonder
if they are preserving it today. Probly not.
When the revidionists start clattering about the white man stole the
land blahblahblah, Don't be silly. Indians are clever and can be just
as devious as white men, if they so desire. Their chiefs were smart,
even though some may have made bad bargains, they also made good ones.
No one could have conquered the Indians just like they can't conquer the
tribes in Iraq. I think our govt. cheated on some it's obligations It
should never have allowed the slaughter to the buffalo to almost
extinction. It also cheated the southerners after the civil war.
I'm disgusted with all the revisionism that's going on. It is
particularly revolting to me to see what the black power community keeps
publishing and pushing.
It is completely warping the children who have no memory. Seems to me
the Indian children who were made to go to white schools were probly
warped in the same way, Yet, I can understand that in order to compete
in the US economy they had to learn all the stuff the white kids
learned. Seems as tho sum tribes are doing rather well with their
gambling casinos. More power to them. I hope they will help the
others, who are starting theirs.
bahblahblah
sixti...@yahoo.com
didn't land on what is the continental US today.
Most people who went beyond the sixth grade know that the Iroquois
nation had rules of governance similar to what eventually become the
USA's practices of electing officials, e.g. President. It's a well
known fact. That you don't know about it speaks volumes about your
lack of education.
I cited one reference. I could do more, but you're like one of these
Holocaust deniers, no matter how much evidence is presented to you, you
will continue to deny it.
You're one of these racist bigots who think that America is only for
white-skinned people, and that others are inferior. You are what gives
America a bad name with the rest of the world, not to mention some of
your countrymen.
sixti...@yahoo.com
Hey, aren't you late for the Klan meeting?
JD Cooper
JD Cooper
You are really becoming a bore but ow you've changed your tune a little.
(cat covering shit comes o mind) So, provide more references than what
you did that Columbus was shown a written constitution by the
Iroquois.... I mean, other than that one by the screwballs you cited.
JD
PS: In case you've forgotten, here is the lunacy you posted:
JD Cooper
The aclu is also a jack boot thug to its own people. A new gag order
amongst them:
The American Civil Liberties Union is weighing new standards that would
discourage its board members from publicly criticizing the
organization’s policies and internal administration.
Ashley Gilbertson for The New York Times
Anthony D. Romero, head of the American Civil Liberties Union.
“Where an individual director disagrees with a board position on matters
of civil liberties policy, the director should refrain from publicly
highlighting the fact of such disagreement,” the committee that compiled
the standards wrote in its proposals.
“Directors should remember that there is always a material prospect that
public airing of the disagreement will affect the A.C.L.U. adversely in
terms of public support and fund-raising,” the proposals state.
Given the organization’s longtime commitment to defending free speech,
some former board members were shocked by the proposals.
--------
heh! hypocrisy, aclu is your name
JD
sixti...@yahoo.com
JD Cooper wrote:
> You are really becoming a bore but ow you've changed your tune a little.
> (cat covering shit comes o mind) So, provide more references than what
> you did that Columbus was shown a written constitution by the
> Iroquois.... I mean, other than that one by the screwballs you cited.
>
> JD
>
> PS: In case you've forgotten, here is the lunacy you posted:
> "It is interesting to note that the first written constitution in
> North America appeared before* Columbus....
ROTFLMAO
Uhhhh, JD, *"before" has more than one meaning. It deosn't just mean
"in front of", it also "prior to".
JD Cooper
sixti...@yahoo.com wrote:
Uhhh, sixti...@yahoo.com, I only asked you to prove your assertion
that a written constitution "appeared" before Cloumbus. Show me some
evidence that a written document was in the Americas before Columbus. I
repeat your submission herewith:
"It is interesting to note that the first written constitution in
North America appeared before Columbus....The "It is interesting to
note that the first written constitution in
North America appeared before Columbus....The Gayaneshagowa, or Great
Binding Law of the Five Nations, was a written constitution created by
the Iroquois [which] enunciated such democratic ideas and doctrines as
initiative, recall, referendum, and equal suffrage. It provided the
type of central government that would later be suggested by Benjamin
Franklin to the colonies as an institution worthy of
emulation....[T]the Iroquois Constitution provided a written preview of
some of the governmental values later adopted by the whites in
America..." *
*Deloria, Vine, Jr. an , or Great
sixti...@yahoo.com
Pretty lame comeback, JD.
Lonestar
Why don't you answer his challange? You are the one that posted the lie.
Pretty Lame answer sixo.
Robert(Tx)
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Gordon
pijoe
pijoe
> Who is Deloria Vine etc? Head revisionist?
>
He can't even get the name right--It's Vine V. Veloria, Jr. A professoar
UC. Died in 2005.
Bobbie
Wrong...!Deloria Vine , Jr. (March 26,1933—November 13, 2005) was a
Native American author,
theologian, historian, and activist. He is best known for his book
Custer Died for Your Sins (1969),
in which he attacked the treatment of Native Americans by the United
States government and by anthropologists.
The American Anthropological Association sponsored a panel in response
to Custer Died for Your Sins,
and many sacred artifacts and human remains have been returned to tribes
as a result.
A member of the Standing Rock Sioux, Deloria originally sought to be a
minister,
like his father, and received a degree from the Lutheran School of
Theology after graduating from Iowa State University.
Deciding that he could do more good for other native Americans as a lawyer,
he went on to earn a law degree from the University of Colorado.
From 1964 to 1967 Deloria was executive director of the National
Congress of American Indians.
Deloria wrote and edited many subsequent books, focusing on many issues
as they relate to Native Americans,
such as education and religion. He was involved with many Native
American organizations,
was a board member of the National Museum of the American Indian
beginning in 1977, and taught political science at several universities.
More than qualified, I would say to be used as reference....don't you agree?
Bobbie...
JD Cooper
Look, sixer.. I can find no evidence anywhere that the injins had any
kind of written language at that time, so show me evidence that I am
wrong and the so-called Gayaneshagowa was written.
JD
Bobbie
Deloria Vine , Jr. (March 26,1933—November 13, 2005) was a Native
American author, theologian, historian, and activist. He is best known
for his book Custer Died for Your Sins (1969), in which he attacked the
treatment of Native Americans by the United States government and by
anthropologists.
The American Anthropological Association sponsored a panel in response
to Custer Died for Your Sins, and many sacred artifacts and human
remains have been returned to tribes as a result.
A member of the Standing Rock Sioux, Deloria originally sought to be a
minister, like his father, and received a degree from the Lutheran
School of Theology after graduating from Iowa State University. Deciding
that he could do more good for other native Americans as a lawyer, he
went on to earn a law degree from the University of Colorado. From 1964
to 1967 Deloria was executive director of the National Congress of
American Indians.
Deloria wrote and edited many subsequent books, focusing on many issues
as they relate to Native Americans, such as education and religion. He
was involved with many Native American organizations, was a board member
of the National Museum of the American Indian beginning in 1977, and
taught political science at several universities.
Works
* Aggressions of Civilization: Federal Indian Policy Since The
1880s, Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1984.
* American Indian Policy In The Twentieth Century, Norman:
University of Oklahoma Press, 1985.
* American Indians, American Justice, Austin: University of Texas
Press, 1983.
* Behind the Trail of Broken Treaties: An Indian Declaration of
Independence, New York: Dell Publishing Co., 1974.
* A Better Day for Indians, New York: Field Foundation, 1976.
* A Brief History of the Federal Responsibility to the American
Indian, Washington: Dept. of Health, Education, and Welfare, 1979,
* Custer Died For Your Sins: An Indian Manifesto, New York:
Macmillan, 1969.
* For This Land: Writings on Religion in America, New York:
Routledge, 1999.
* Frank Waters: Man and Mystic, Athens: Swallow Press: Ohio
University Press, 1993.
* God Is Red: A Native View of Religion, Golden, Colorado: North
American Press, 1994.
* The Indian Affair, New York: Friendship Press, 1974.
* Indians of the Pacific Northwest, New York: Doubleday, 1977.
* The Metaphysics of Modern Existence, San Francisco: Harper & Row,
1979.
* The Nations Within: The Past and Future of American Indian
Sovereignty, New York: Pantheon Books, 1984.
* Of Utmost Good Faith, San Francisco: Straight Arrow Books, 1971.
* Red Earth, White Lies: Native Americans and the Myth of
Scientific Fact, New York: Scibner, 1995.
* The Red Man in the New World Drama: A Politico-legal Study with a
Pageantry of American Indian History, New York: Macmillan, 1971.
* Reminiscences of Vine V. Deloria, Yankton Sioux Tribe of South
Dakota 1970, New York Times oral history program: American Indian oral
history research project. Part II; no. 82.
* The Right To Know: A Paper, Washington, D.C.: Office of Library
and Information Services, U.S. Dept. of the Interior, 1978.
* A Sender of Words: Essays in Memory of John G. Neihardt, Salt
Lake City: Howe Brothers, 1984.
* Singing For A Spirit: A Portrait of the Dakota Sioux, Santa Fe,
N.M.: Clear Light Publishers, 1999.
* Spirit and Reason: The Vine Deloria, Jr., Reader, Golden,
Colorado: Fulcrum Pub, 1999.
* Tribes, Treaties, and Constitutional Tribulations (with Wilkins,
David E.), Austin: University of Texas Press, 1999.
* We Talk, You Listen; New Tribes, New Turf, New York: Macmillan, 1970.
* Evolution, Creationism, and Other Modern Myths, Golden, Colorado:
Fulcrum Pub, 2002.
And please don't try telling me I have chosen a biased reference,
Blake.....I think this time you might have the wrong revisionist...
Bobbie...
DittyDu...@webtv.net
He can't even get the name right--It's Vine V. Veloria, Jr. A professoar
UC. Died in 2005.
Berkeley? I should have known.
JD Cooper
I'd still like to see that *written* Gayaneshagowa.
JD
Bobbie
http://sogc.medical.org/guidelines/pdf/ps100_3.pdf
Unfortunately, prejudicial and racist images of Aboriginal
peoples are still prevalent in the media and society. It is difficult
to avoid internalizing some of these images, especially
given the paucity of alternate positive images of Aboriginal peoples
in the media. Historically, there has been a lack of recognition
for Aboriginal initiatives by the dominant society. For
example, *few North Americans are aware that the first written
constitution in what is now North America appeared before
Columbus: the Gayaneshagowa or Great Binding Law of the
Five Nation Iroquois Confederacy describes democratic ideas
including equality and referendum.* Some of the American
“Founding Fathers,” including Benjamin Franklin, were familiar
with this work, and scholars argue that it significantly influenced
the American constitution.8,9However, the historic lack
of respect afforded Aboriginal initiatives in the colonial context
and the ongoing societal and media stereotypes of Aboriginal
peoples and cultures present significant systemic barriers
to Aboriginal individuals and communities attempting new
initiatives, since the systemic assumption may be that such initiatives
will not be successful or credible. Even if the new initiative
is able to overcome these barriers, its success and
credibility will often be judged using a Western European
worldview: and should it not measure up, the original, stereotyped
assumption regarding the inferiority of Aboriginal initiatives
will be perpetuated. Rupert Ross encourages the
following preventative measures:
Bobbie...
JD Cooper
This is little more than a rehash of what sixer posted and the *only*
reference I have seen that uses the word "written". Further, as an
American I am a little bit familiar wth US history and I, like many
oters, have had a working knowledge of the mentioned federation of the
five tribes, (altho I seriuosly *doubt* you had *ever* heard of it in
your whole life until now.) but I have never seen any document that
indicated the indians *WROTE* anything. Mostly the thing was refered to
as "ORAL".
JD
Séimí mac Liam
@individual.net:
From: http://origin.org/UCS/message.cfm?messageid=30018
"The Iroquois Constitution
The Iroquois Confederation probably was complete by 1525, but maybe as
early as 1450 (Snow 1996:60.) It is designed to protect the peace within
the League, but not necessarily coordinate actions outside the League (Lutz
1998:3.) The Iroquois Constitution, or Great Binding Law [called Ne
Gayaneshagowa (O'Brien 1989:18)], is an oral history that describes the
political relationship between the Five Nations."
Oral history, nor written constitution. No matter what the revisionists
insist upon.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Bobbie
states that it is written, It also adds that few North Americans are
aware of this......eeny meeny miny mo.......Can you show me which of the
two are correct.
I have reposted only what I found in my search, just as you have, I make
no claims. Nor would I dare to try to rewrite history......I insist on
nothing.
Have you any other links I may follow?
Bobbie...
JD Cooper
You see *EVERY* link we see and the one you dropped is the *ONLY* one
that uses the word "written". (It was also used by sixers authors so
somebody plagerized somebody.)
JD
Bobbie
>>>
>>> From: http://origin.org/UCS/message.cfm?messageid=30018
>>>
>>> "The Iroquois Constitution
>>> The Iroquois Confederation probably was complete by 1525, but maybe
>>> as early as 1450 (Snow 1996:60.) It is designed to protect the peace
>>> within the League, but not necessarily coordinate actions outside the
>>> League (Lutz 1998:3.) The Iroquois Constitution, or Great Binding Law
>>> [called Ne Gayaneshagowa (O'Brien 1989:18)], is an oral history that
>>> describes the political relationship between the Five Nations."
>>>
>>> Oral history, nor written constitution. No matter what the
>>> revisionists insist upon.
>>>
>>>
>> I read that also.....but followed the leads to the above pdf file
>> which states that it is written, It also adds that few North Americans
>> are aware of this......eeny meeny miny mo.......Can you show me which
>> of the two are correct.
>>
>> I have reposted only what I found in my search, just as you have, I
>> make no claims. Nor would I dare to try to rewrite history......I
>> insist on nothing.
>> Have you any other links I may follow?
>>
>> Bobbie...
>
> You see *EVERY* link we see and the one you dropped is the *ONLY* one
> that uses the word "written". (It was also used by sixers authors so
> somebody plagerized somebody.)
>
> JD
Is it possible you could be wrong?...it has happened before. In any case
it doesn't negate the constitution, does it. if it was oral rather than
written....
http://spot.colorado.edu/~mcguire/iriquois.htm
THE GREAT BINDING LAW, GAYANASHAGOWA
1. I am Dekanawidah and with the Five Nations' Confederate Lords I plant
the Tree of Great Peace. I plant it in your territory, Adodarhoh, and
the Onondaga Nation, in the territory of you who are Firekeepers.
I name the tree the Tree of the Great Long Leaves. Under the shade of
this Tree of the Great Peace we spread the soft white feathery down of
the globe thistle as seats for you, Adodarhoh, and your cousin Lords.
We place you upon those seats, spread soft with the feathery down of the
globe thistle, there beneath the shade of the spreading branches of the
Tree of Peace. There shall you sit and watch the Council Fire of the
Confederacy of the Five Nations, and all the affairs of the Five Nations
shall be transacted at this place before you, Adodarhoh, and your cousin
Lords, by the Confederate Lords of the Five Nations.
2. Roots have spread out from the Tree of the Great Peace, one to the
north, one to the east, one to the south and one to the west. The name
of these roots is The Great White Roots and their nature is Peace and
Strength.
If any man or any nation outside the Five Nations shall obey the laws of
the Great Peace and make known their disposition to the Lords of the
Confederacy, they may trace the Roots to the Tree and if their minds are
clean and they are obedient and promise to obey the wishes of the
Confederate Council, they shall be welcomed to take shelter beneath the
Tree of the Long Leaves.
We place at the top of the Tree of the Long Leaves an Eagle who is able
to see afar. If he sees in the distance any evil approaching or any
danger threatening he will at once warn the people of the Confederacy.
3. To you Adodarhoh, the Onondaga cousin Lords, I and the other
Confederate Lords have entrusted the caretaking and the watching of the
Five Nations Council Fire.
When there is any business to be transacted and the Confederate Council
is not in session, a messenger shall be dispatched either to Adodarhoh,
Hononwirehtonh or Skanawatih, Fire Keepers, or to their War Chiefs with
a full statement of the case desired to be considered. Then shall
Adodarhoh call his cousin (associate) Lords together and consider
whether or not the case is of sufficient importance to demand the
attention of the Confederate Council. If so, Adodarhoh shall dispatch
messengers to summon all the Confederate Lords to assemble beneath the
Tree of the Long Leaves.
etc etc.....
_______________________________________________________
Said to be the model for the US Constitution......
Bobbie......
JD Cooper
Bobbie! Bobbie! Bobbie!!!!!!
Yo are parroting what everyone has already said! *EVERYONE* thinks there
is linkage to the US Constitution. It is an old old old scholarly
discussion. That is not the point! What *is* the point if the
"GAYANASHAGOWA" was a written constitution before the time of Columbus.
What we have above is a White Man's translation of the legend taken from
the oral history as passed down thru generations.
JD
DittyDu...@webtv.net
No, I do not agree, For several reasons, I do not agree. He has no
integrity. He seems to be a revisionist who is using his law degree
and such credentials to further his agenda, but what he says makes no
sense. Anyone with such an agenda can select incidents, amass them,
ignore other pertinant information, twist them together with known
recorded facts, and theoretically make it seem to prove a point. The
kids who have no memory will believe whatever they are told
Seems like Jean said once, in discussing what some PhDs who were paid
by food processing companies, said about foods : You can get any proof
your money can buy.
I keep recalling a point the author made in her book "A Nation Under
Lawyers" (The lady was a prof at a prestigious law school in US)
She said that after and during the sixties a number of folks who
would not previously been allowed to graduate, did graduate from law
school.
And after that, she went on to mention that some of these eventually
became judges, who eventually made dumb decisions-- or rather
impractical decisions. So since, the US has become a country of
litigation over frivolities, and on and on.
This Sioux under discussion seems to have grasped onto what he could of
the civil rights movement, but I know not for what reason. Personal
gain? I regularly get phone calls and mail from some Sioux
organization pleading for charity for the starving, the people who have
no wood to burn for heat in winter, no food, and on and on, Just send
a few dollars. I wonder how much they spend on phone calls, postage,
printing their charity pitches, and who writes these. My dead daughter
was caught up with interest about Indians and did research in our
libraries, bought books, -- I still have a lot to dispose of--
But when I saw this clip of a young man, ostensibly a Lakota, (used to
be Sioux) with bright red, shiny paint on his face, lamenting about
--well, I was completely turned off. Shiny bright red paint>?????????
Sorry, I may not always recognize every hoax, but, when something goes
against realities I have seen, I just stop and balk.
Blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Re: Goodnight and good luck
Group: alt.fifty-plus.friends Date: Fri, Jun 2, 2006, 7:53pm (CDT+6)
From: naugh...@home.net (Bobbie)
-------------------------------
And please don't try telling me I have chosen a biased reference,
Blake.....I think this time you might have the wrong revisionist...
Bobbie...
--------------------------------------
Well, Bobbie, if you want to believe that any of the Indian tribes had a
written language prior to the landing of Columbus, I certainly couldn't
tell you anything. However, it is my guess that if the man was writing
on any subject other than revising history from a civil rights
issue, he probably couldn't get published. I was surprised to see some
childrens book publishers on the list. He seems to be doing a thorough
jobby.
I do recall that Mark Twain wrote one describing an eyewitness account
of the death by torture of his companion who was captured by Indians.
It has probly been suppressed in libraries, and maybe expunged from
catalogues by now. It is not PC to take the view that Indians were
ever anything but trustworthy and brave. Various tribes were so
entirely different, they had different languages, they fought with each
other, so PC thought lumps them into one friendly ethnic group that
was greatly wronged by white men alone.
blah
Bobbie
So....? Isn't it beautiful......An oral constitution written down is
still a constitution. is it not?.....Oral or otherwise, this one came
into existence before Columbus....according to all the links shown here.....
Tell me what you know about it JD. other than what is shown here
already.... I am interested....
Bobbie...
Bobbie
Bobbie....
Séimí mac Liam
@individual.net:
From: http://sixnations.buffnet.net/Great_Law_of_Peace/
"The Great Law is the founding constitution of the Six Nations Iroquois
Confederacy. It is an oral tradition, codified in a series of wampum belts
now held by the Onondaga Nation. It defines the functions of the Grand
Council and how the native nations can resolve disputes between themselves
and maintain peace."
One of these belts commemorates a treaty between the Confederacy and the
original thirteen colonies and is called the George Washington Belt. There
is little doubt that the "Founding Fathers" were aware of the Confederacy
and it's system of government. As to how much the Ne Gayaneshagowa
influenced the US Constitution, there is no documentary evidence to show
this. As to the oft repeated claim that we stole their constitution, there
doesn't seem to to have been any such claim prior to the Red Power movement
of the late 1960's.
Bobbie
You never cease to amaze me......
Bobbie...
DittyDu...@webtv.net
the Five Nations of Iroquois, are supposed to be. It was taught in
elementary school across the country. Even in the southeastern states,
even though the Iroquois territory was in the northeast. These
accusations are just an inflammatory way to further an agenda.
JD Cooper
Right now you know as much about it as anyone but serious scholars. The
thing has grown in status during my lifetime to epic proportions
compared to what it was once regarded. In fact, when I first saw
references to said "federation" in high school, the reference was that
the half dozen tribes involved had a loose federation that caused them
to cohabit a little less fiercely that they had before. It was more of
an agreement than a "constitution". The white man in that area came to
learn the the indian tribes might very well stick together on some
things but just as easily split apart on others. Since my high school
years, the legend of the so called "GAYANASHAGOWA" has taken on a whole
new life form having more incarnations than most Buddhist can have in an
eternity. Generally, I never, never, never heard or learned that the
federation was a written document, but more along the lines of an
intertribal agreement. Pardon my skepticism, but the document as printed
above surely seems w-a-a-a-a-y overboard considering the language skills
and known vocabulary of the native indians in the 16th century. Somehow
I suspect a pile of "liberty" taken with the above "translation" as
shown above. (An I do mean a PILE of *revisionist* liberty!) go read the
entire file. Try as I may, I simply cannot imagine a bunch of stone age
men sitting around a campfire with pen and parchment writing such a
lengthy and wordy and scholarly epistle.
JD
JD Cooper
In the message I just posted to Bobbie, I did not draw a link between
the "red power" movement to the revisionst hype we read today. Thanks
for the notion.
JD
JD Cooper
That is correct. Still, we seem to suffer the wisdom of newfound experts
on the subject, however.
JD
JD Cooper
What is that supposed to mean?
JD
JD Cooper
What!? That she tells true?
OK! All them injins were all happy dope smoking peace mongers that sat
around the old lava lamp and sang cum bah ya...
sheeese! Bobbie! you take the cake!
JD
Bobbie
Don't I just......
Bobbie....
Séimí mac Liam
news:9_OdnXavzOkrKB3Z...@texas.net:
One of my good friends from that time was a Modoc/Pit River Indian, Darrell
"Babe" Wilson. Darrell was heavily involved in the movement in northern
California. There were 49 tribes in California, 48 of which were treated
with, the Pit River have never signed a treaty with the US government or
with California. They legally own large tracts of northern California.
Darrel made claim for unallocated federal land by notifiying the Secretary
of the Interior of his intent, as is legal for Native Americans to do. The
160 acres he claimed in this manner was contiguous with National Forest.
The Forestry Service was under the impression that Darrell's land was part
of the Lassen National Forest. Darrel and his friends went to his land and
began cutting trees. Soon there were 50 US marshals with automatic weapons
there to stop them. I never did hear what the legal resolution of the
incident was. This was all done by Darrell to make a propaganda point.
JD Cooper
I'd enjoy the story of the outcome.
JD
sixti...@yahoo.com
"It was the Iroquois political system, however, that made them unique,
and because of it, they dominated the first 200-years of colonial
history in both Canada and the United States. Strangely enough, there
were never that many of them, and the enemies they defeated in war were
often twice their size. Although much has been made of their Dutch
firearms, the Iroquois prevailed because of their unity, sense of
purpose, and superior political organization. Since the Iroquois League
was formed prior to any contact, it owed nothing to European influence.
Proper credit is seldom given, but the reverse was actually true.
Rather than learning political sophistication from Europeans, Europeans
learned from the Iroquois, and the League, with its elaborate system of
checks, balances,, and supreme law, almost certainly influenced the
American Articles of Confederation and Constitution.
The Iroquois were farmers whose leaders were chosen by their women -
rather unusual for warlike conquerors. Founded to maintain peace and
resolve disputes between its members, the League's primary law was the
Kainerekowa, the Great Law of Peace which simply stated Iroquois should
not kill each other. The League's organization was prescribed by a
WRITTEN CONSTITUTION based on 114 wampums and reinforced by a funeral
rite known as the "Condolence" - shared mourning at the passing of
sachems from the member tribes. The council was composed of 50 male
sachems known variously as lords, or peace chiefs. Each tribe's
representation was set: Onondaga 14; Cayuga 10; Oneida 9; Mohawk 9; and
Seneca 8. Nominated by the tribal clan mothers (who had almost complete
power in their selection), Iroquois sachemships were usually held for
life, although they could be removed for misconduct or incompetence.
The emblem of their office was the deer antler head dress, and guided
by an all-male council, the sachems ruled in times of peace. War chiefs
were chosen on the basis of birth, experience, and ability, but
exercised power only during war."
"The spiritual union of the nations began before European contact,
replete with a Constitution recorded with special beads called wampum
that served the same purpose as money in other cultures. Most Western
anthropologists speculate that this Constitution was created sometime
between the middle 1400s and early 1600s, but other scholars who
account for Iroquois oral tradition argue that the event took place as
early as 1100, with many arguing for August 31, 1142 based on a
coinciding solar eclipse. Some Westerners have also suggested that this
Constitution was written with European help, although most dismiss this
notion as BLATANT RACISM."
JD Cooper
Oh good grief!
You can post all the cut and paste crap you want to, but you still have
yet to show me a *WRITTEN* "constitution".
Fool.
JD
JD Cooper
Well, in a word, "YES YOU DO"!
For the life of me I cannot imagine why you joined an argument of a
minor point of U.S. history you never knew a damned thing about until
yesterday.
JD
Marian
Ricardo wrote:
> The movie Goodnight and Good Luck bridges the gap between 1954 and 2006
> on how the right wing stirs unfounded fears to minipulate the American
> public to advance its evil and selfish ways. Then it was communism, now
> its terrorism. Latino migration is nothing more than an extention of
> unfounded emotional fears created by right wing propagandist on a
> gullible public who would rather watch American Idol than have a
> quality American history lesson on the History Channel. We live in sad
> times. Edward R. Murrow said it more than fifty years ago. Let us
> admire his courage. AND...of course he was a good ole North Carolina
> boy from Greensboro. :-).
Well said, neighbor! Mighty proud of him AND the Kentuckian George
Clooney who created the film. Those were bad times for this country.
Amazing that we'd see them again in our lifetime...
Congressional R's Are STILL the Lunatic Fringe.
http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid6926429
Marian