COBY! YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS!
Janie
arrived TODAY! One is an adorable Christmas ornament and the other is an
absolutely BEAUTIFUL card with a beautiful gold star you made for me! I
can't believe how long they took to get here. But, I thank you SO much.
I will always treasure them.
You all should see this card she made. It is one of the most beautiful
things I have ever seen!
Grateful Janie
--
I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free!
-----Lee Greenwood-----
lamb
Don't you think this sig is a bit silly, if not offensive, in a message to
somebody in another country?
Loes
Janie
mine. I'm sorry it offends you. I will change it. But, like you are probably
proud of where you live, I am too. I put that there they day of the tragedy in
New York.
Janie
Jean B.
>
> Well, I never thought of it that way. It's a line from a favorite song of
> mine. I'm sorry it offends you. I will change it. But, like you are probably
> proud of where you live, I am too. I put that there they day of the tragedy in
> New York.
> Janie
>
I dunno. I don't find it offensive personally, but then I am from the
United States--and it is a bit odd to have this appended to posts that
are being read mostly, if not exclusively, by other residents of the
free world.
Jean B.
lamb
> Janie wrote:
> >
> > Well, I never thought of it that way. It's a line from a favorite song of
> > mine. I'm sorry it offends you. I will change it. But, like you are probably
> > proud of where you live, I am too. I put that there they day of the tragedy in
> > New York.
>
> I dunno. I don't find it offensive personally, but then I am from the
> United States--and it is a bit odd to have this appended to posts that
> are being read mostly, if not exclusively, by other residents of the
> free world.
I missed this reply of Janie's. I gather she understands how suggestive it is.
Yes, I can understand somebody being proud of his country, I am, often. Wouldn't
dare to tell the world every day, though ...... :-)
Loes
Janie
country in the world" I'm just saying that I'm glad I live in a free country like
I'm sure all people from all free countries must be proud. This was more of a
message to the terrorists, who of course didn't see it but it made me feel better,
that they can't take away my resolve, like they can't from people from other free
countries. My way of fighting back, no matter how small and I meant no insult to any
other country.
I do find one thing strange though. I rarely see anyone in this group treated like I
am. People feel so free to "discipline" me, even one calling me a nutcase. I don't
understand it. And yes, it has hurt quite a bit. But I will never change who I am.
:) I realize I can be mouthy but I never EVER intend to hurt anyone. Honestly.
Janie
"Jean B." wrote:
--
**Dalin**
wrote:
Why not? Have you seen the way those Texans brag about Texas? <g>
I think our country goes through waves of patriotism and I guess we
are having one now since the attack on the WTC in Sept. Seems like
every other car I see has an American flag flying from a side window.
Since we are all Americans in this country, it seems like we are just
showing off our patriotism to each other, but it does unite us and we
need to be united sometimes when we are such a large, diverse country.
There are times when we need to come together as a whole and not think
of ourselves as divided by north vs. south, east vs. west, agriculture
vs. manufacturing. I don't think you would have that need in a small
country.
The one thing that unites us is our love of our country. With all
it's blemishes and warts. I like Janie's tag line. :) Of course, I
am an American too. The home of the free and the land of the brave.
And Loes, if you used a tag line "Holland forever!" or some such thing
it would not bother me at all.
Dalin
Janie
terrorists. I think everyone should say "I'm proud of where I live" everyday, if they
want to. Why wouldn't you "dare" to tell the world everyday, Loes? I am not shouting
it. It's just a signature line on my e-mail. I find it no big deal:) I am proud of not
just how America handled this but how the whole world handled it.
Janie
lamb wrote:
--
Dimple Cubb-Baggins
be an American and know that at least where they live they are
free????!!!????
LB
"lamb" <l.a.m....@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:3C814B5B...@chello.nl...
:
Dimple Cubb-Baggins
proud of your country.
While I'm sure we try to be sensitive to people of other countries in
this news group...you surely must realize that it is a predominately
American group.
I personally would never ever go into a group populated by persons
from your country and tell them that their pride in their county was
in any way offensive to me.
I guess that's the difference between you and me.
LB
"lamb" <l.a.m....@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:3C815ED5...@chello.nl...
:
Jean B.
>
> I just see this differently, Jean. I'm not trying to say, "I'm living in the best
> country in the world" I'm just saying that I'm glad I live in a free country like
> I'm sure all people from all free countries must be proud. This was more of a
> message to the terrorists, who of course didn't see it but it made me feel better,
> that they can't take away my resolve, like they can't from people from other free
> countries. My way of fighting back, no matter how small and I meant no insult to any
> other country.
> I do find one thing strange though. I rarely see anyone in this group treated like I
> am. People feel so free to "discipline" me, even one calling me a nutcase. I don't
> understand it. And yes, it has hurt quite a bit. But I will never change who I am.
> :) I realize I can be mouthy but I never EVER intend to hurt anyone. Honestly.
> Janie
I wasn't chastising--merely musing. As I said, I didn't find your
tagline offensive. I just wonder if it could be interpreted as saying
to other who are free that we are free and you are not.... I
certainly understand your feelings. I think we are all (or almost
all, anyway) feeling a heightened degree of patriotism after September
11. I know *I* am!
Jean B.
Yoj
news:3c886087...@nntp.mindspring.com...
Well put, Dalin. I see patriotism as a healthy sign, not a put-down to
anybody else. There was a lot of patriotism - from a lot of countries -
that was highly visible at the Olympics, which is one of the things I like
about the Olympics. It gives people an opportunity to say they are proud of
their country without offending anyone. Incidentally, Janie's signature
line is a quote from a song.
Joy
Kelly Petit
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3C8176E9...@rcn.com...
though, but just saying to myself why 'at least'? It's clear that people
from elsewhere must think that this means "we're not!" I don't think anyone
would have reacted if it had just read, "where I know I'm free" or something
like that.
Kelly
Kelly Petit
"**Dalin**" <lj...@mindspring.com>
> And Loes, if you used a tag line "Holland forever!" or some such thing
> it would not bother me at all.
>
> Dalin
>
I agree with you all-;)
"Norway and France, the only countries where you're _really_ free and where
it's _really_ good living"
Kelly (what do you think of my sig-line? <g>)
Dimple Cubb-Baggins
ever reasons..... Doesn't always make it so. But if you believe it to
be the best well then, in your mind it is the best.
Sounds like trying to compare apples to oranges. Both are very good,
but very different.
Remember the tempest in the teacup? <g> ...Starting to sound like
another tempest. <g>
Hugs.
LB
"Kelly Petit" <kelly...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:a5sn2c$9r03e$1...@ID-4716.news.dfncis.de...
:
: "**Dalin**" <lj...@mindspring.com>
:
:
Faith
Posting the url to the copywritten phrase.
http://www.usdreams.com/Greenwood79.html
This is an original quotation from Lee Greenwood's Song "God Bless the
U.S.A." therefore changing the wording along with recognizing him as the
writer and artist would be incorrect unless you indicated it was
paraphrasing
In researching this particular disagreement using the MLA Handbook
(Modern Language Association Handbook for Writers) and the (Harcourt
Brace Guide to Documentation and Writing in the Disciplines) the only
possible solution is for Janie to put quotations around "I'm Proud To
Be...." according to the MLA reference:
http://webster.commnet.edu/mla.htm - notation under Songs, Lyrics, Liner
Notes, Etc.
I haven't seen posted "perfect language" or "perfect content" in this
newsgroup often, therefore I do not understand why this particular
"Signature Line" is being objected to when the poster has given credit
to the originator of the verse in song that she is quoting.
It seems redundant to pinpoint a poster using a signature line to quote
a quotation of anothers' "works" as we should understand a signature
line is just that - a personal preference such in the same way as your
"Identity" that one uses.
My opinion of course.
Faith
**Dalin**
I know. And I get goosebumps all over every time I hear it. :)
Dalin
>
lamb
> Why not? Have you seen the way those Texans brag about Texas? <g>
I love it!
> I think our country goes through waves of patriotism and I guess we
> are having one now since the attack on the WTC in Sept. Seems like
> every other car I see has an American flag flying from a side window.
> Since we are all Americans in this country, it seems like we are just
> showing off our patriotism to each other, but it does unite us and we
> need to be united sometimes when we are such a large, diverse country.
>
> There are times when we need to come together as a whole and not think
> of ourselves as divided by north vs. south, east vs. west, agriculture
> vs. manufacturing. I don't think you would have that need in a small
> country.
I understand all that, and I don't object to that at all.
> The one thing that unites us is our love of our country. With all
> it's blemishes and warts. I like Janie's tag line. :) Of course, I
> am an American too. The home of the free and the land of the brave.
"The home of the free and the land of the brave".
Not THE free, not THE brave.
> And Loes, if you used a tag line "Holland forever!" or some such thing
> it would not bother me at all.
I wouldn't think so, but the true expression is "Scotland forever" :-)
Again, if somebody writes "America, the best place to live", no problem to me, it would
make me smile.
It is the suggestion that there might no such freedom in other countries that bothers
me. Even if it isn't meant that way.
Loes
lamb
> I agree with you all-;)
>
> "Norway and France, the only countries where you're _really_ free and where
> it's _really_ good living"
>
> Kelly (what do you think of my sig-line? <g>)
I love it.
Reminds me of what I read in my newspaper. Was about the Norwegian nationa
anthem. We're jealous of it. Since I didn't follow the Olympics I never heard
it, but I liked the bits about love of the country, saga, I forgot, maybe you
could post it?
The French anthem I like too, and the Italian one sounds the best.
Loes
lamb
> You should be proud and I'm sure no one would be offended if YOU were
> proud of your country.
> While I'm sure we try to be sensitive to people of other countries in
> this news group...you surely must realize that it is a predominately
> American group.
>
> I personally would never ever go into a group populated by persons
> from your country and tell them that their pride in their county was
> in any way offensive to me.
Again.
Be proud of your country.
But don't suggest there is no freedom in other places in the world.
Loes
Kelly Petit
"lamb" <l.a.m....@chello.nl>
> I love it.
> Reminds me of what I read in my newspaper. Was about the Norwegian nationa
> anthem. We're jealous of it. Since I didn't follow the Olympics I never
heard
> it, but I liked the bits about love of the country, saga, I forgot, maybe
you
> could post it?
> The French anthem I like too, and the Italian one sounds the best.
> Loes
>
I love this anthem and whenever I hear it, I get a lump in my throat.
Kelly
---
Yes, we love this country as it rises up worn and weatherbeaten
over the oceans with its thousands homes
We love, love to think of our fathers and mothers
and the saga night that descends dreams on our earth
This was the country that Harald saved with his giants
this was the country that Håkon protected
while Ųyvind song his songs
Olav painted the cross on this land with his blood
from its peaks Sverre spoke against Rome
Peasants sharpened their axes when an army came forth
Tordenskiold swept along the coasts like a lightning
so it cleared the route home, women rose and fought like men
others could only weep, but then they came again
There weren't many of us but we were enough
when we were tried and things were at risk
we'd rather see our country burn than fall
bear in mind what happened at Fredrikshald
Norwegians in houses and huts thank your great God
he protected the land even in its darkest hour
all that the fathers have fought for
and the mothers have wept for
our Lord has ajusted so that we won our rights
Yes, we love this country as it rises up worn and weatherbeaten
over the oceans with its thousands homes
As our forefathers' struggles lifted it from distress to victory
will we also when need be stand up and fight for its peace.
lamb
I remember now who wrote it in that newspaper. An Iranian refugee, author and
poet, that lives in Holland now for about ten years. He writes the most
beautiful columns, in perfect Dutch. He often quotes from old Persian
literature, and on vacation he found that poetry back in the Norwegian
landscape. He translated the first lines of your anthem into Dutch.
I'm going to keep this.
Loes
Kelly Petit wrote:
> Here is a more or less literal translation, Loes-:)
> I love this anthem and whenever I hear it, I get a lump in my throat.
> Kelly
> ---
> Yes, we love this country as it rises up worn and weatherbeaten
> over the oceans with its thousands homes
> We love, love to think of our fathers and mothers
> and the saga night that descends dreams on our earth
>
> This was the country that Harald saved with his giants
> this was the country that Håkon protected
> while Øyvind song his songs
Yoj
It's interesting how we react in different ways. I believe the "at least"
is in there just to fit the meter of the music, since it is part of a song.
However, it has always bothered me, because to me it seems to be saying
"that's the only good thing about being an American". I don't know why some
people find patriotism offensive. To me it is natural to be proud of your
country. I do know, however, that whatever one may say, somebody will find
it offensive. Since the attacks of September 11, patriotism is very obvious
in the United States. Still, many people have complained about signs saying
"God Bless America" because of the religious connotation. I think that, as
long as there is no put-down to another person's country or beliefs,
everyone should be allowed to express their patriotism, if they feel it,
however they wish.
I am reminded of the poem, "Love of Country" from "The Lay of the Last
Minstrel" by Sir Walter Scott:
Breathes there the man with soul so dead
Who never to himself hath said:
"This is my own, my native land"?
Whose heart hath ne'er within him burned
As home his footsteps he hath turned,
From wandering on a foreign strand?
If such there breathe, go mark him well;
For him no minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name,
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim,
Despite those titles, power and pelf,
The wretch concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonored, and unsung.
Note: sir Walter Scott was not American, so patriotism is not a solely
American idea.
Joy
Yoj
The (fairly new) Australian National Anthem is beautiful also.
Joy
Kelly Petit
afraid I've had Bjørnsterje Bjørnson turn in his tomb tonight-:)
BTW, the music was written by Richard Nordraak. I have it somewhere on a
webpage that I set up.
Kelly
"lamb" <l.a.m....@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:3C82721F...@chello.nl...
Kelly Petit
"Yoj" <jgay...@att.net> wrote in message
news:0Gug8.11566$gK2.8...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I think that patriotism is absolutely international. You find it everywhere,
it can be pushed too far and then it becomes less positive. One Norwegian
poem that I love is written by Ivar Aasen and it's called 'Gamle Norig' (Old
Norway) and it's also very patriotic.
Funny though how we understand things differently, but then I have not seen
the whole poem - do you have it?
I must say I understood 'at least' in the same way as Loes.
It's also understandable that there should be a renewal of patriotism in
America after the tragedy you experienced.
kelly
Yoj
Thanks, Kelly. No, I don't have the words to the song Janie quotes. I have
heard it, which is how I knew it was a song, but I don't know any of the
other words.
Joy
Dimple Cubb-Baggins
The signature line in question in no way suggests that there is no
freedom in other places in the world. The line simply states that the
person knows where they are free.
LB
lamb
> I am reminded of the poem, "Love of Country" from "The Lay of the Last
> Minstrel" by Sir Walter Scott:
>
> Breathes there the man with soul so dead
> Who never to himself hath said:
> "This is my own, my native land"?
> Whose heart hath ne'er within him burned
> As home his footsteps he hath turned,
> From wandering on a foreign strand?
> If such there breathe, go mark him well;
> For him no minstrel raptures swell;
> High though his titles, proud his name,
> Boundless his wealth as wish can claim,
> Despite those titles, power and pelf,
> The wretch concentred all in self,
> Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
> And, doubly dying, shall go down
> To the vile dust from whence he sprung,
> Unwept, unhonored, and unsung.
Beautiful.
> Note: sir Walter Scott was not American, so patriotism is not a solely
> American idea.
:-)
You should see the Dutch when they win an international football match! The
whole country is painted orange.
Loes
lamb
> I don't know whether my translation gives it what it deserves though! I'm
> afraid I've had Bjørnsterje Bjørnson turn in his tomb tonight-:)
> BTW, the music was written by Richard Nordraak. I have it somewhere on a
> webpage that I set up.
I don't think it is possible to translate the whole "feeling".
I showed it to my husband, he just sat there, reading it over and over again.
So impressed! Well, he grew up with God save the king :-)
I'll have a look for the sound - I've got it working again.
Loes
Dimple Cubb-Baggins
Hugs.
LB
"Yoj" <jgay...@att.net> wrote in message
news:0Gug8.11566$gK2.8...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
:
:
lamb
> I'll have a look for the sound - I've got it working again.
Got it, and the Norwegian text.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/5536/norwegian.html
Loes
Jim Everman
> > have not seen
> > the whole poem - do you have it?
> > I must say I understood 'at least' in the same way as Loes.
> > It's also understandable that there should be a renewal of patriotism in
> > America after the tragedy you experienced.
> > kelly
>
> Thanks, Kelly. No, I don't have the words to the song Janie quotes. I have
> heard it, which is how I knew it was a song, but I don't know any of the
> other words.
> Joy
It's here; <http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/blessusa.htm> along
with the music in MIDI format so you can sing along if you wish..
I agree with the Europeans - I think the "at least" sounds like a put
down when taken out of context. Much like another tag line currently
in use here sounds like a put down for all men, although I don't think
it is intended that way anymore than I ever intended to call anyone
here "stupid" with mine. (If I want to call someone stupid, I'll do it
in the text, not the tag).
Jim
DittyDu...@webtv.net
to a person who has never heard the song. It makes you wonder what "at
best" would include.
Drop "at least" and you have a very patriotic statement. It is a grand
statement, Janie, about a grand country.
As my grandmother used to say, "Don't think you are the only Pebble on
the Beach. There's a Little Rock in Arkansas." Blake
lamb
> It's here; <http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/blessusa.htm> along
> with the music in MIDI format so you can sing along if you wish..
>
> I agree with the Europeans - I think the "at least" sounds like a put
> down when taken out of context. Much like another tag line currently
> in use here sounds like a put down for all men, although I don't think
> it is intended that way anymore than I ever intended to call anyone
> here "stupid" with mine. (If I want to call someone stupid, I'll do it
> in the text, not the tag).
The other tag line I missed. Not often I read them anyway, as so much text is
often quoted underneath the message :-) But I'll keep my eyes open. Shall I start
an argument?
:-)Loes
Kelly Petit
after my heart!
kelly
Kelly Petit
"lamb" <l.a.m....@chello.nl>
>
> I don't think it is possible to translate the whole "feeling".
> I showed it to my husband, he just sat there, reading it over and over
again.
> So impressed! Well, he grew up with God save the king :-)
> I'll have a look for the sound - I've got it working again.
>
> Loes
>
Here's my file where I've set up the song read as a poem and you can also
listen to the music.
kelly
Faith
requote what I wrote earlier as not seeing it show up.
This is an original quotation from Lee Greenwood's Song "God Bless the
U.S.A." therefore changing the wording along with recognizing him as the
writer and artist would be incorrect unless you indicated it was
paraphrasing
In researching this particular disagreement using the MLA Handbook
(Modern Language Association Handbook for Writers) and the (Harcourt
Brace Guide to Documentation and Writing in the Disciplines) the only
possible solution is for Janie to put quotations around "I'm Proud To
Be...." according to the MLA reference:
http://webster.commnet.edu/mla.htm - notation under Songs, Lyrics, Liner
Notes, Etc.
I haven't seen posted "perfect language" or "perfect content" in this
newsgroup often, therefore I do not understand why this particular
"Signature Line" is being objected to when the poster has given credit
to the originator of the verse in song that she is quoting.
It seems redundant to pinpoint a poster using a signature line to quote
a quotation of anothers' "works" as we should understand a signature
line is just that - a personal preference such in the same way as your
"Identity" that one uses.
My opinion of course."
Faith
Kelly Petit
But on my page:
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Surf/4931/musicfile.html
you can hear it read in Norwegian-:)
kelly
Kelly Petit
"Jim Everman" <eve...@Anet-STL.com> wrote in message
news:3C82852C...@Anet-STL.com...
This is what I got:
" The page cannot be displayed
The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be
experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser
settings. "
Kelly
lamb
Hey, that's nice!
Is for keeping too.
Loes
lamb
> Bad luck!
> This is what I got:
> " The page cannot be displayed
> The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be
> experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser
> settings. "
>
> Kelly
Just look up Lee Greenwood with Google - the web - not groups :-)
Loes
Kelly Petit
It's a beautiful poem and read as a whole, the meaning is not the same as I
understood it.
kelly
"Faith" <zo...@cvinternet.net> wrote in message
news:3C8293BF...@cvinternet.net...
**Dalin**
wrote:
>
>> And Loes, if you used a tag line "Holland forever!" or some such thing
>> it would not bother me at all.
>
>I wouldn't think so, but the true expression is "Scotland forever" :-)
Thank you for the correction. I thought you lived in Holland. So it
would be silly to use the true expression, wouldn't it?
>
>Again, if somebody writes "America, the best place to live", no problem to me, it would
>make me smile.
>It is the suggestion that there might no such freedom in other countries that bothers
>me. Even if it isn't meant that way.
Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today? <g>
Dalin
>
Kelly Petit
not work though)
Kelly
lamb
> On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:47:01 +0100, lamb <l.a.m....@chello.nl>
> wrote:
> >I wouldn't think so, but the true expression is "Scotland forever" :-)
>
> Thank you for the correction. I thought you lived in Holland. So it
> would be silly to use the true expression, wouldn't it?
We don't even speak English :-))
> Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today? <g>
Maybe for once I didn't.
I really mean it, and I finally found the courage to say so.
Loes
**Dalin**
wrote:
Yep, I sit on my hands a lot too. Most of the time I'm glad I did.
Dalin
>
TexGal
lamb wrote in message <3C828C1E...@chello.nl>...
If you want to, go head ... but please don't mention Texas! LOL
Donna
Knut W. Jakset
news:3C814B5B...@chello.nl...
> Janie wrote:
----- cut -----
> > I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free!
> > -----Lee Greenwood-----
>
> Don't you think this sig is a bit silly, if not offensive, in a message to
> somebody in another country?
> Loes
>
----->
Loes, Loes:
Turning the question around back on you.
Don't you think you are a bit HÅRSÅR (Norwegian, meaning something like
overreacting) to say that sig is offensive. I do NOT agree. If she had
said: "I'm glad I NOT am a Dutch citizen" then I would have agreed.
Knut W.
Kelly Petit
"Knut W. Jakset" <kwja...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:JNEg8.395$gY3....@juliett.dax.net...
Kelly
lamb
> If you want to, go head ... but please don't mention Texas! LOL
Oh no, I am an absolute convert.
I believe in Texas.
I believe the people there are the funniest in the world.
:-) Loes
lamb
> Yep, I sit on my hands a lot too. Most of the time I'm glad I did.
Same with me :-)
Loes
lamb
> Loes, Loes:
> Turning the question around back on you.
> Don't you think you are a bit HÅRSÅR (Norwegian, meaning something like
> overreacting) to say that sig is offensive. I do NOT agree. If she had
> said: "I'm glad I NOT am a Dutch citizen" then I would have agreed.
>
> Knut W.
Oh sure, I would absolutely agree with that sig :-)
Loes
Janie
offer! lol
Janie
lamb wrote:
--
Toddy
mouth, we can't hear a word you say !!!!
LOL
Toddy
Janie <mb...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:3C83D99C...@mediaone.net...
Janie
Janie
Toddy
I'd be terrified you were about to do yourself a damage !!!
Careful with that beading needle <G>
Toddy
Janie <mb...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:3C844A38...@mediaone.net...
Janie
lol
Janie
Knut W. Jakset
----->
Loes:
As long as you don't sit on MY hands everything is OK.
Knut (prefer handsfree)
Coby
"Knut W. Jakset" <kwja...@c2i.net> schreef in bericht
news:RA_g8.611$gY3....@juliett.dax.net...
Coby
lamb
Mijn gedachte ......