Portrait of Hate
Seymour Grass
"TorreyakaVicki" <torreya...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030522052104...@mb-m26.aol.com...
| Seymour Grass
| said
|
| << Airhead
| McDimwit with his remarkable hysteria would make a better Hitler than this
| scrawny silly excuse for the dictator. Chaplin did a better job.
>><BR><BR>
| <snip>
|
| I was really proud of the fact that I hadn't said anything to you about
this.
| I am a person that often feels to talk to someone that hates someone for
their
| religion is just giving you another chance to talk so you can respond to
me.
Perhaps you would be even prouder of yourself, were you to break through all
the silliness and try replying to what I'm actually writing and saying,
rather than assuming what my misinterpreters say about what I'm saying is --
what I'm saying. Believe it or not, you and they are not saying what I am
saying, and guess what? It is only me who is saying truly what I am saying.
For example, I don't hate anyone for their religion, as you charge, but if
that religion is itself hateful, and if it makes those who believe in it
hate others, including me, then I oppose that religion for what it is doing
to those poor dupes--and I hate a religion that is founded on hate and a
justification of murder, prejudice and discrimination. Yes. I hate that
God damned Anti-semitic counterfeit "Gospel According to John" just as much
as I hate the Qu'ran. But I love the Bhagavad-Gita, the Epistle of James,
the Gosspel According to Mark, and every word that ever escaped the Buddha's
lips. See? You really are not talking to Seymour. You are talking to the
portrait of hate painted of him by others who don't understand him.
Perhaps you might be very proud of yourself were you to sit down, show some
true love and fairness, by asking of yourself why you hate Seymour, and why
you don't get his jokes, why you can't see the love in what he's doing. You
can get it all in a short Introduction right here . . .
http://jpdavid.bravepages.com/index.html
Be proud of yourself for doing the right thing, by having the guts to give
Seymour a break and an even shake despite the roaring of the uncomprehending
herd. Chaplin had to stand against the whole movie industry and the
government to produce his portrayal of *The Great Dictator* -- do you have
that kind of stamina, to stand against the hatred of the entire AFO--to be
the one fair person in the angry, hateful crowd?
--
Daily Diary of Dr. Gerbils
Reich Ministry of Propaganda & Mass Enlightenment
*Die Lage* -- Friday, May 21, 2003
I have never been so proud of our beloved Yiddish Führer as I was this
morning at his press conference. When various representatives of the media
had contacted me about having such a public confrontation, well, wouldn't
you know that right down to nearly the last newsperson, they balked at the
idea of holding forth with such an event at the place of our Führer's
choosing?
Too bad for them, it was Howard Johnson's or nothing. Still, it was all so
terribly, from their point of view, obtuse and you could tell by their
irascible manner throughout the proceedings that they would have been much
happier at the Pizza Hut. You could just tell by the way they kept
apologizing to the waitresses and busboys about how far beneath the dignity
of Howard Johnson's they sincerely felt this whole fiasco to be.
It was 8:30 a.m. on the dot when our party arrived, Goeringstein, myself and
the Führer with the usual able and watchful cortege of Yiddish Brown Shirts,
who, just to keep things friendly, stationed themselves here and there,
outside and in, while we three went directly to a booth which was picked
especially for its lovely view of Hollywood boulevard. The media, meanwhile
were getting their cameras, lights and sound equipment set up between that
line of booths and the lunch counter.
When the waitress had brought an order of coffee, cream cheese and bagels,
plus something I always like to have, a nice serving of celery and peanut
butter, the Führer finally deigned to lend an ear to the barrage of
questions that had been assaulting him from the moment we came into the
place.
In jeans and a t-shirt that had 'Van Nuys Soccer Moms Rule!', the
thirty-something newsperson from CNN, looking for all the world like the
teeth had rotted out of her comb, advanced with her mike: "Mr. Yidler! Is
it true as we hear, that you really are not Jewish at all, since you are
born of a Jewish father, and not a Jewish mother?"
When he heard that one, he motioned across the table to me where I was
sitting by the window, next to Goeringstein. He said, "Let me try one of
those." I dutifully dipped a stalk of celery into the sherbet glass of
chunky peanut butter and handed it to him. He looked at it, took a bite,
and said, "Thank you, Herr Gerbils."
Another T-Shirt pressed into view, this one boasting the figure of a Black
Angus steer with a cartoon balloon to its mouth that read, "It's the Red
Onion for Me!" Now this twenty-something reporter from NBC who looked like
someone had cut the cord to his Schick, did then push his mike forward to
ask, "Why do you call him 'Herr Gerbils', when none of you are even German?"
The Führer, holding the celery before his eyes said, "It's just kind of fun,
is all." He pointed his celery at the person and said, "Ever try one of
these?" Before that reporter could answer, the Soccer Mom newsperson had
elbowed him in the ribs, and further pressing him out of her way, she said,
"What about my question? How can you be a Jew without a Jewish mother?"
Herr Yidler smiled. "You mean, how can I be the son of my father when a
conceit of orthodox dogma clearly holds that I must be the son of someone
else not Jewish, and am therefore the son of a whore?"
After her eyes had rolled with the punch of that, she said, "That wasn't my
question, I asked . . ."
"Yes," he said, "that was your question, to which I answer . . ."
"Mr. Yidler!" She was really bristling! "In other words, not only are you
not a Jew according to the views of Jews, but you reject one of the main
tenets of the Jewish religion--and here you sit yet insisting that you are
Jewish?"
The NBC reporter flinched, taking a step back as Herr Yidler had pointed the
stalk of celery at him: "Watch this," he said, keeping an eye on the guy.
"In my hand is celery?" Getting only a chorus of snorts for an answer, he
shrugged, took a bite off the end and contemplating the flavor, either of
that or of a thought dawning on him, he beckoned to Goeringstein. Yidler
whispered something to his ear; the man then sat back staring most
quizzically. "Go on," said Yidler.
"Yes, my Führer." Goeringstein pressed himself out of the booth. "Just as
you say."
Yidler returned his attention to the newspersons. "Now, is this cream
cheese?" Using the celery, he indicated the sherbet.
The Soccer Mom from CNN rolled her eyes for benefit of her colleagues. "Uh,
I don't think so; I mean it's like so totally the peanut butter?"
"A good thing, that you should believe the evidence of your eyes and not
simply what some people say." He raised the celery again: "Now watch." He
put the green stalk into the puffy dollop of cream cheese that had been
served in the middle of the bagel platter. Taking it out, he showed it to
her. "What's this?"
"What's that? God! Did we come here to Howard Johnson's, of all places, at
8:30 in the morning for this?"
"Now, now!" He tersely shook the celery at her. "You asked a question and
I'm giving you the answer." He turned the cream-cheese laden stalk before
her eyes. "In your considered opinion, would you say this is cream-cheese
and not peanut butter?"
"Uh! Can anything be, like, more obvious?"
"But you're wrong. It's not just cream-cheese. It's celery and cream-cheese.
Either it's celery and cream-cheese, or it's celery and peanut butter. Am I
right?"
"Well God!" She snorted to her public. "So what?"
Herr Yidler smiled as Goeringstein came to squeeze his corpulent girth back
into the booth. With much ceremony, the Kosher Reich Marshal reached into
his pocket, as then, most reverentially, he moved to place on the surface of
the table a cellophane sealed object. Picking it up, Yidler began to open
it, and when it was naked of its wrapper, he held it up for all to see:
"What is this?"
A voice in the crowd from a face hidden in the glare of lights declared,
"It's a Mr. Peanut candy bar, for the godsakes!"
"Very good!" Yidler smiled as he pressed one end of the thing into the
cream-cheese, slowly pushing it into the dollop and pulling it out, going in
and out, over and again, until he pulled it out at last to hold it up; "Ah!"
He smiled, "Now is this Mr. Peanut Bar, any the less a Mr. Peanut bar now
that it has had this experience with the cream cheese?" Before any comment
could emerge from the many mouths wide-open with dismay, he opened his own
and took a bite. "Hmmm," he said as he chewed. "Not bad." When at last he
had swallowed, he was the one to comment: "Odd but the cream cheese, nice
as it is, does nothing to cover or remove the taste of peanuts." He held up
what remained of the bar. "Now let's see what happens when I do this!" He
pressed the bar down into the sherbet of peanut butter, he pushed it in, he
pulled it back, in--out--up--down.
"Ooooo!" I said, "That is so exciting to watch!"
"Shut up!" Goeringstein had nudged me, leaning over to my ear. "Gerbils you
insane deviant! This is an important press conference, so try to control
your notorious perversions."
What could I say? I turned to watch our Fuhrer take the peanut butter laden
candy bar from the sherbet and raise it to his mouth. He bit off the end,
and his little mustache went up and down as he chewed; contemplating the
taste, he swallowed and said, "You know, nice as this is, I think I prefer
the combination of cream cheese and peanuts to the pure experience of the
peanuts alone, and do you know why?" In the dead silence that prevailed he
slammed a fist to the table and declared, "I'll tell you! The cream-cheese
enhances the taste of the peanuts, and they are made so much the more
obvious by the mix."
I was moved to applause, and Goeringstein joined me.
"Mr. Yidler!" The CNN Soccer Mom had yet again forced herself forward. "This
is ridiculous! The fact remains that the Jews of the world, or the
'peanuts' as you would desire to make them--they reject you as a Mr. Peanut
because peanuts and cream cheese, in their view do not mix. What do you
have to say to that?"
After the round of delighted laughter from her colleagues had died down,
Herr Yidler smiled: "You can talk and reject all you like. But the fact
remains that when I do this," he shoved the Mr. Peanut back into the cream
cheese, "it does not rob Mr. Peanut of his peanuts." He lifted the bar.
"The cream cheese cannot take the peanuts away." He shoved the bar back into
the cream cheese, took away his hand, wiped it with a napkin, and touched it
to his mustache. He chuckled as he lowered the napkin. "The peanuts of my
Jewish heritage are in me. You can talk, you can reject, you can
discriminate and segregate, and speak the sadistic intent of your clownish
insults all you like but it cannot remove one Jewish genetic peanut from my
being and blood, it cannot stop my father's genes from being my genes, and
it cannot above all remove from my mouth, my whole heart and soul the taste
of being Jewish."
"Nor, I might add," said Goeringstein, "would the lack of a Jewish mother
have saved him from going to Hitler's ovens, nor does it preserve him from
suffering the pain in this day of the ongoing persecutions against his flesh
and blood."
"What a shame, what a sin!" said I, "To be rejected by such a conceit come
from among the very people whose fate over which his heart grieves with his
every waking moment!"
Goeringstein pounded a fist to his own chest. "What heartless,
unconsciounable swine dogma makes of the masses!" He made as if to spit on
the floor. "I say that to you!"
"But, Mr. Yidler," shouted a voice from the crowd, "If the Jews say . . ."
"What Jews?" He slammed a fist to the table, not once, not twice, but three
times. "Indoctrinated, dogmatic people full of prejudice and conceit do not
deserve the name of 'Jews'! Who are you talking about? The Jews I know are
people whose minds are not controlled by prejudice got of customs with no
foundation in Torah. There is no such law! It is not from God, but from
custom got of the conceits of man, for if there be a God, you can rest
assured that he sends to Hell people who think like that!"
The CNN girl was on the attack again. "Maybe they have good reason for . .
."
He pointed at her with a finger that trembled. "There is never a 'good
reason' for discrimination, prejudice and segregation! What sort of
cold-blooded airhead of a fake liberal, are you, Young Lady?"
Much reddened in the face, she shouted, "Don't call me a liberal, I'm a
woman!"
When the Führer's eyes met those of Goeringstein and mine we all three
descended into a long fit of laughter. And when that had at last died down,
the Führer once again turned to the *woman* from CNN. "Tell me," he said,
"what is your nationality?"
"That's my business!" she smugly declared as grumbles of approval for it
surged through the crowd.
"That's right," said Yidler. "And so is mine." He turned to shoot me a
smile. "But let's just say for fun that this *woman* who is definitely not a
'liberal' . . .
"Oh!" She turned to address the crowd. "I meant to say 'lady' and they know
it."
"Yes," said Yidler. "But let's just say that you are half French and half
Swede?" He gestured to Goeringstein. "Now ask me for my nationality."
"At once, my Führer!" The Yiddish Reich Marshal straightened himself: "Pray
tell, Herr Yidler. What is your ethnic origin, if you don't mind saying?"
Yidler bowed just a bit. "Why thank you for asking, Herr Goeringstein.
Actually, I have only half a nationality."
"Half!" Goeringstein sat back. "But that is impossible. A man has both a
father and a mother. If his mother is French and his father is Swedish, he
may say, 'I am French and Swedish'."
"Alas, my dear friend, I am prevented from enjoying that little privilege
given to everyone else. For, you see, in the sight of the world, I was born
of a mother alone."
"My God! Then your mother must be--what? A virgin!"
"No, she is a Scot, not even Jewish."
"But a regular Virgin Mary, already?"
"According to Jewish doctrine, yes. Oh yes. Indeed, yes."
"Then you are clearly the Messiah of God, my Führer!"
Yidler raised both his hands with a slow shake of his head. "Who knew?"
--
http://jpdavid.bravepages.com/index.html
--
JP David http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
"Nothing can be more contemptible than to suppose Public Records to be True.
Read them & judge, if you are not a Fool," -- William Blake, *Marginalia*
TorreyakaVicki
the time I just pity those that choose to have their life run by hate.
"Life as is the universe is boundless"
R. Westermeyer
<JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote:
I clicked on your post, but didn't see your self-portrait.
Where's the "portrait of hate" jpg?
Guess one has to actually go to your home page for the visual, eh?
Seymour Grass
"R. Westermeyer" <wst...@cts.com> wrote in message
news:9umqcvsv5k3hgl2uu...@4ax.com...
One can hardly fathom how you ever got to be such a wit, Pesty. Okay, maybe
you're not the next Phyllis Diller but why not try for a spot on American
Idol? You could combine this rare talent for a humor with a few fancy dance
steps a la Michael Jackson, and just, like, do your thing Hippety-Hop style
in your best backward cap, over-sized Bermuda shorts and your smelliest pair
of plastic shoes--you would be so cool.
As I recall, you were asking some gauche, ill-intentioned, drip-nosed
questions about whether a person with a Jewish father and Gentile mother can
be regarded as Jewish?
Your answer has been on-line here for two days . . .
--
"God is the sole being who has no need to exist in order to
reign." --Baudelaire
Seymour Grass
C'mon now, let's be brave and fair: I suggested that you were reacting not
to my work, but to what others falsely make out of it, in lieu of reading
and understanding it. I'm saying that you are reacting to a notorious
reputation constructed by others, a false portrait, and not to Seymour
Grass, himself.
I ask for the truth.
Alaric
"Seymour Grass" <JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote in message
news:baj1uk$95cd$1...@ID-167346.news.dfncis.de...
> Chaplin had to stand against the whole movie industry and the government
to produce his portrayal of *The Great Dictator* -- do you have that kind of
stamina, to stand against the hatred of the entire AFO--to be the one fair
person in the angry, hateful crowd?
When you treat other folk with courtesy, you'll be treated with courtesy.
You've always known that, and the very LAST thing you are is a martyr. And
you, sir. well, you know the rest.
--
"I said, "There is no justice," as they dragged me out the door,
Judge said, "This isn't a court of justice, son. This is a court of law."
Billy Bragg, "Rotting On Remand."
TorreyakaVicki
very much.
Seymour Grass
Cluelessness is, like the universe, boundless.
--
Daily Diary of Dr. Gerbils
New American Zionist Insurgency
Ministry of Mass Enlightenment
*Die Lage* -- Tuesday, May 27, 2003
On this date, at 10:25 a.m. in the year of Death and the Devil, 1942,
Reinhard "Hangman" Heydrich, SS Reich-Führer Himmler's chief of operations
over all police functions, the SD and Gestapo, was riding in an open staff
car en route to a meeting in Berlin with Hitler, a date Destiny had decided
for the German Führer's beloved "Blonde Beast" that he should not keep--in
favor of a far more urgent rendezvous with a long-deserved fate which came
at the hand of a Czech partisan as a grenade tossed right into the bloody
butcher's lap.
How strange to have come upon this fact only today, just a minute past
Midnight on the very anniversary of that blessed event, and this, by mere
coincidental circumstance of some urgent research being done on the subject
of a former Gestapo chief, the direct Heydrich subordinate, Heinrich
Mueller -- and why should I have been searching on the subject of that
ignoble swine? Absurd as it seems, it was brought to my attention, just last
night, that my office has received, by email, certain threats from a party
who has identified himself by that name, and what's more, outrageously
claims to be that same person of historical infamy, who, as of this date,
were he truly alive, even sentient enough to be web savvy and riding the
curl of a world wide wave with such flotsam and jetsam of email, why, he
would be no less 103 years old.
Ridiculous! I said to Himmlerfeld that this is certainly nothing but some
ribald hoax. And yet he, along with Goeringstein dared stand here in my
office insisting that it is not, after all, beyond the realm of possibility
for a Neanderthal like that--if only from spite--to be yet polluting the
earth's evolutionary eco-system with a continued existence--even at such a
hoary old age.
Such nonsense. But what could I say against it, considering the well
documented fact that the F.B.I and C.I.A., even to this day, are not making
known the full docket of information on that missing arch criminal of a
monster cop, nor will they say why, like a greased pig, this Mueller had got
out of the hands of American O.S.S. custody after the war, such that down
all these years, from that time to this, Gestapo Chief, Heinrich Mueller has
been at large and so far as history would record it, remains yet of
whereabouts unknown--until now that we, the cadre of the New American
Zionist Insurgency have these emails from the real--or, I should say
'former' Gestapo, to threaten that except we "dirty Yids" stop stealing the
pure and pristine German thunder of authentic Aryan Nazism, we will all pay
for it in ways that a normal human mind cannot readily imagine.
Well! He hardly knows who he's talking to, if he should be speaking to the
imagination in the mind of one Dr. Joe Gerbils! I did, in any case, see it
my clear duty to bring the matter up with our beloved Jewish Führer no
sooner had he arrived at our headquarters later this very morning. I was
the earliest to see him, being there alone as he came into the ante-chamber
of his office, and when I'd filled him in on all the details, his reaction
was--well! He stood there sipping at the steaming coffee I'd served him,
listening with much mirth glittering in his eyes until I'd finished with my
report.
He smiled: "Is that all, then Gerbils?"
"I think it is. Yes."
"And it just happens that this email threat had finally moved you to do this
research, and that on the very day of Heydrich's mortal wounding, only to
learn by that research of that date, on that day?"
"Exactly."
"I should say this is almost harder to believe than that some German should
have lived to an age of 103. Why, you could find a well-aged vintage
sauerkraut on the market older than that."
"Well . . . I'm not sure that I . . ."
"You don't regard it as something quite beyond the realm of mere
'coincidence' as you describe it?"
"My Führer, I should indeed be moved to regard it as something in the way of
a very strange coincidence, indeed, but . . ."
He waved it off. "Don't worry about it--either one sees it or one does not."
He sat down on a large leather divan, remaining at the edge to cradle the
hot cup in his hands as he nodded at the adjoining leather chair for me to
sit and join him. When I had, he said, "Gerbils, you are, I'm afraid, a man
who does not harbor in his breast an awe sufficient to the fullest
appreciation of the mystery of existence."
"I'm sorry!"
"As you should be--if only in order that it may be forgiven you, as, of
course, it would be, but I must say to you that, 'There are more things in
heaven and earth, Horatio, than are even yet dreamed in your philosophy'".
"Er Horatio? I'm like, Joe Gerbils, here?"
"Yes, Joe. You are not Horatio, and I am not the Prince of some dark lord of
Denmark, but I think I know the ghost of a prodigy when I've seen it."
Anopheles
"Seymour Grass" wrote:
>
> "TorreyakaVicki" <torreya...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030528052251...@mb-m26.aol.com...
> | I decied things for myself not because of what someone else tells me
thank
> you
> | very much.
> | "Life as is the universe is boundless"
>
> Cluelessness is, like the universe, boundless.
You're getting too glib, Johnno. Hardly surprising, I know, and not
normally worth a comment if not for this appalling attempt at "depth".
John, you have about as much depth as a one micron film, and a transparent
one at that. Clueless is the exact opposite of "boundless", you see.
Clueless is being all wrapped up in oneself, all up tight and out of sight.
We here at AFO all know that. You, well you can't because you're clueless.
Anopheles
Seymour Grass
"Anopheles" <hi...@jeack.com.au> wrote in message
news:bb3960$59gmv$1...@ID-34438.news.dfncis.de...
|
| "Seymour Grass" wrote:
| >
| > "TorreyakaVicki" <torreya...@aol.com> wrote in message
| > news:20030528052251...@mb-m26.aol.com...
| > | I decied things for myself not because of what someone else tells me
| thank
| > you
| > | very much.
| > | "Life as is the universe is boundless"
| >
| > Cluelessness is, like the universe, boundless.
|
| You're getting too glib, Johnno. Hardly surprising, I know, and not
| normally worth a comment if not for this appalling attempt at "depth".
Look here, Waltzing Mathilda, any time "depth" is at issue, you will always
be the first to make that very clear just as you've done here, not just by
using one of your hairpins for a dipstick, but by demonstrating once again
with such laudable lucidity how far out of one's 'depth' a fin-footed
snorkle-face like you can really get.
| John, you have about as much depth as a one micron film, and a transparent
| one at that.
Make that your latest mantra; repeat it morning, noon and night as you go
hopping on your merry way through the Down Under Outback--you soon may come
to truly believe it, yourself.
| Clueless is the exact opposite of "boundless", you see.
See? I see nothing but that you are the case in point of just how boundless
a state of cluelessness can get--what more proof of the proposition would be
needed?
| Clueless is being all wrapped up in oneself, all up tight and out of
sight.
No. Cluelessness is to be left without a clue while you are all at sea
bobbing about in a flotsam and jetsam of unassembled facts, to be grasping
at this and that and finding not the first truly bouyant notion to save you
from that boundless ocean of cluelessness. Take a person like you who
rejects the notion of absolute truth--that's you. You sit there clueless
with nothing governing what you say or do, because to you, all truth is
relative--and to each his own.
Cluelessness happens when a person with no rudder of truth to guide decides
that all is boundless, that nothing is prevented, that he may define the
notion of cluelessness any way he likes, or worse, as it suits his own
parochial purposes. Your definition of "cluelessness" is nothing of the
kind. That is a definition of narcissism and solipsism. Indeed there is
nothing to prevent a narcissist from having a clue or two about many things,
most especially if his thought is governed by the absolute truth that
bending the truth never leads further to truth.
| We here at AFO all know that.
Y'all here know just about nothing because you're too proud, too fancy in
the pants to learn. That is *narcissism.*
| We here at AFO all know that.
"Wee--wee-wee, all the way home. This little piggie went to market, this
little piggie stayed home, this little piggie stuffed come caviar up his
nose, and this little piggie . . . "
|You, well you can't because you're clueless.
Jesus that was profound. But, if there is any truth to the theorem that
"cluelessness is boundless" then you get one point, and nothing could be
more clueless than to deny my own cluelessness.
But of course none of this goes to "depth" as the issue was really right
there on the surface, and how you could have missed it is anyone's guess.
This was entirely an exercise in Fun with Solecism". So, I repeat,
"Cluelessness, like the universe, is boundless." Or would you prefer . . .
"Cluelessness as is the Universe is boundless." Yes, I'm sure you would.
But you are out there in the boundless main, on that Great Barrier Reef of
Thought again, Laddy, too far off into the depths, when matters had all the
time been so much closer to shore.
Don't you get tired of being just another big bite of Aussie sushi, for the
Great White Seymour when he comes cruising around?
"Oh trivial, childish minds. You've missed the more important things that we
were forced to learn against our will." Baudelaire
Anopheles
"Seymour Grass" wrote:
> Don't you get tired of being just another big bite of Aussie sushi, for
the
> Great White Seymour when he comes cruising around?
Oh, John, old man, if only all the Aussie sharks were as tame as you. But
then how would an old toothless shark survive in a man's world?
Anopheles
Seymour Grass
|
| "Seymour Grass" wrote:
|
| > Don't you get tired of being just another big bite of Aussie sushi, for
| the
| > Great White Seymour when he comes cruising around?
|
| Oh, John, old man, if only all the Aussie sharks were as tame as you. But
Not by keeping one jump ahead of the rest.
--
http://jpdavid.bravepages.com/index.html
Anopheles
Not much of a shark are you, puss? For the record, Aussie sharks never
rearrange the body so they can eat it.
Did I ever tell you, we Aussies do fight back against the shark empire. We
eat them, too. As a matter of fact, the species we eat are much like you,
John. They're called Gummy Sharks. Toothless bottom feeders. I bet your
bathroom mirror will never look the same.
Anopheles
Seymour Grass
|
| Not much of a shark are you, puss? For the record, Aussie sharks never
| rearrange the body so they can eat it.
|
| Did I ever tell you, we Aussies do fight back against the shark empire.
Hah. What "fight"? That's what you have yet to do, and a last, bitter
resort to screaming words like that up there with your fist twisting in your
teary eye just further demonstrates your punch drunk condition. You didn't
show the stuff to counter one single point--but then how could you when it's
a case of being totally K.O.ed?
But just to be fair, I'll take my knees off your shoulders, let you up and
give you another crack. Here it is again, so don't run away this time . . .
"Anopheles" <hi...@jeack.com.au> wrote in message
news:bb3960$59gmv$1...@ID-34438.news.dfncis.de...
|
| "Seymour Grass" wrote:
| >
| > Cluelessness is, like the universe, boundless.
|
| You're getting too glib, Johnno. Hardly surprising, I know, and not
| normally worth a comment if not for this appalling attempt at "depth".
Look here, Waltzing Mathilda, any time "depth" is at issue, you will always
be the first to make that very clear just as you've done here, not just by
using one of your hairpins for a dipstick, but by demonstrating once again
with such laudable lucidity how far out of one's 'depth' a web-footed
Don't you get tired of being just another big bite of Aussie sushi, for the
Great White Seymour when he comes cruising around?
Anopheles
"Seymour Grass" wrote:
>
> "Anopheles" <hi...@jeack.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bb62u8$67390$1...@ID-34438.news.dfncis.de...
> |
> | Not much of a shark are you, puss? For the record, Aussie sharks never
> | rearrange the body so they can eat it.
> |
> | Did I ever tell you, we Aussies do fight back against the shark empire.
>
> Hah. What "fight"? That's what you have yet to do, and a last, bitter
> resort to screaming words like that up there with your fist twisting in
your
> teary eye just further demonstrates your punch drunk condition. You
didn't
> show the stuff to counter one single point--but then how could you when
it's
> a case of being totally K.O.ed?
>
> But just to be fair, I'll take my knees off your shoulders, let you up and
> give you another crack. Here it is again, so don't run away this time . .
.
Run away from you, Johhno? How can anyone run when laughing their lungs up.
If you were anymore lightweight, they'd use you to replace the space
shuttle. If you were any less intellectual, you'd be one of those blank
diaries. As for me worrying about your bullshit arguments, I'd rather stick
my penis down a fire-ant hole. That would be more entertaining.
Give us some more history lessons, why don't you. Humour is always welcome.
Anopheles
Seymour Grass
|
|
| Run away from you, Johhno?
Call it "waltzing", Ms Mathilda, or whatever that is you think you're
getting away with, hopping around with your floppy ears bobbing behind this
smokescreen . . .
How can anyone run when laughing their lungs up.
| If you were anymore lightweight, they'd use you to replace the space
| shuttle. If you were any less intellectual, you'd be one of those blank
| diaries. As for me worrying about your bullshit arguments, I'd rather
stick
| my penis down a fire-ant hole. That would be more entertaining.
Definitely much more your speed. Well, you've had your last chance to raise
yourself up two-fisted to the challenge, Sweetie-Cakes, and seeing how you
are totally a no-show, even twice over, well then, I mean, you want
"lightweight"? An airhead like you should get a living with the carnivals
where you'd come in handy with your pucker up inflating floating balloons as
a cheap replacement for the helium tank--I mean that's how much "weight"
there is to anything I've ever heard come hissing out of your yap, Poopsie.
But most comically groundless and inflated out of all proportion is this
risible old bubble of myth you want to blow about some sort of disability
from which I suffer when it comes to knowing my "History"? You've been
merrily toting that around floating on a string tied to your finger for so
long that you're like, strictly Lionel Barrymore taking off from Oz to
Kansas.
But truly, what you don't see but can only blindly misconstrue in Seymour
here as "lightweight" is rather a presence of gentility, hipness, principle
and studiousness that will not comport with the savage standard which the
common herd takes to be the norm. So do be assured that your intended
insult can only be taken quite to the contrary as none but the most
unintended of high complements. :-)
Thank you!
--
John P David http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
"No less amusing was it to envisage the inevitable pack of crooks and
ninnies abusing the smiling marble, and ill with envy, maddened by their own
mediocrity, rushing in pattering hordes to the lemming's doom." Vladimir
Nabokov: _Look at the Harlequins_
Alaric
"Seymour Grass" <JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote in message
> Cluelessness is, like the universe, boundless.
Confusing, as you seem bounded by your own.
> But most comically groundless and inflated out of all proportion is this
risible old bubble of myth you want to blow about some sort of disability
from which I suffer when it comes to knowing my "History"?
You don't even know your OWN history. You change it as it suits you.
--
"If people were cars I'd be covered with scars."
Shivaree - Bossa Nova
Anopheles
"Seymour Grass" wrote:
>
> "Anopheles" <hi...@jeack.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bb8l1m$6sop8$1...@ID-34438.news.dfncis.de...
> |
> |
> | Run away from you, Johhno?
>
> Call it "waltzing", Ms Mathilda, or whatever that is you think you're
> getting away with, hopping around with your floppy ears bobbing behind
this
> smokescreen . . .
If I'm a floppy eared, 'roo, you decrepit old bastard, you're the warble.
Yes. I've heard much about warbles over the last few days and it sums you up
perfectly. You try to get into people's heads and fuck them up with your
irrational nonsense. Well, keep trying sweetheart but I ain't playing by
your rules no matter how much you cough up phlegm and sputter puke all over.
The only reason Alaric and I even bother replying to your bullshit is it
saves on the cost of bran.
> How can anyone run when laughing their lungs up.
> | If you were anymore lightweight, they'd use you to replace the space
> | shuttle. If you were any less intellectual, you'd be one of those blank
> | diaries. As for me worrying about your bullshit arguments, I'd rather
> stick
> | my penis down a fire-ant hole. That would be more entertaining.
>
> Definitely much more your speed. Well, you've had your last chance to
raise
> yourself up two-fisted to the challenge, Sweetie-Cakes, and seeing how you
> are totally a no-show, even twice over, well then, I mean, you want
> "lightweight"? An airhead like you should get a living with the carnivals
> where you'd come in handy with your pucker up inflating floating balloons
as
> a cheap replacement for the helium tank--I mean that's how much "weight"
> there is to anything I've ever heard come hissing out of your yap,
Poopsie.
How amusing. Coming from the internationally recognised coward of Usenet, it
sums you up again. Your infantile imaginings that you're some sort of naive
intellectual giant is one of the great masterpieces of Usenet fiction. When
you put up something interesting, and if I can be bothered reading it, I may
reply. I told you, I play by my rules not yours and you can rattle your tied
old bones all you want, O ji san.
> But most comically groundless and inflated out of all proportion is this
> risible old bubble of myth you want to blow about some sort of disability
> from which I suffer when it comes to knowing my "History"? You've been
> merrily toting that around floating on a string tied to your finger for so
> long that you're like, strictly Lionel Barrymore taking off from Oz to
> Kansas.
I'll let the record speak for itself. You've made more howlers than a pack
of wolves.
> But truly, what you don't see but can only blindly misconstrue in Seymour
> here as "lightweight" is rather a presence of gentility, hipness,
principle
> and studiousness that will not comport with the savage standard which the
> common herd takes to be the norm. So do be assured that your intended
> insult can only be taken quite to the contrary as none but the most
> unintended of high complements. :-)
High complement. Well, I know your grasp of English is tenuous but I suspect
you don't mean you're taking my comments as a suggestion I'm harmonising
with you. We couldn't be further apart. I'm Ian Thorpe to your Eddie the
Eagle. I abhor bullshit. You roll in it daily.
I suspect it's "compliments" you're stretching for, in which case I fully
understand. When you're faced with the wall of total derision, you must
twist words to suit yourself. It's a good tactic of you to remove what I
said though. We can't have the two side by side to show what a talented
nobody you really are.
Goodbye, sweetheart.
You're only interesting if you're entertaining and I have little tolerance
for prats.
Anopheles
Seymour Grass
| If I'm a floppy eared, 'roo, you . . .
Tsk-tsk.
| The only reason Alaric and I even bother replying to your bullshit is it
| saves on the cost of bran.
Pfft.
|> An airhead like you should get a living with the carnivals where you'd
come in handy standing stiff in a corner with your pucker up inflating
floating balloons as a cheap replacement for the helium tank--I mean that's
how much "weight" there is to anything I've ever heard come hissing out of
your yap. <<
|
| How amusing. Coming from the internationally recognised coward of Usenet,
it
| sums you up again.
I hear you squealing like a stretch-necked balloon, dude, and I know how
useful all these "internationally recognised" mythical bubbles you blow must
seem to your purposes, but it's just such an ugly, "yellow journalism" sort
of resort that it makes you out for something far less than a good sport,
you sorry old sort.
In short, it's just no contest when all you can do to meet a match of wit
and will is to stand there red in the face in high screech with all your
pimples and blackheads exploding -- well, isn't that rather a nasty way to
"win"? I mean, you do win, don't you, since nobody would want to remain
close enough to get an eyeful while trying to put a good and proper smack in
at you with all that poison spewing about you. I mean when you're up
against a regular goddam Krakatoa East of Java of molten green snot, toxic
yellow malarial pus, and little BB's of blackhead projectiles zinging
around, the only thing to do is hop in the old canoe and paddle to beat
hell; leave you to self-destruct harmlessly on your own, Dude.
So, Mr. Needle Beak, I can only repeat . . .
| > Definitely much more your speed. Well, you've had your last chance to
| raise
| > yourself up two-fisted to the challenge, Sweetie-Cakes, and seeing how
you
| > are totally a no-show, even . . .
three times over, well--go on ahead and take your last bad shot at saving
face. It can only be much the worse for you requiring no further reply to
make it any more obvious than it already is, as everything said here will
apply twice and three times over.
--
JP David http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
"Nothing can be more contemptible than to suppose Public Records to be True.
Seymour Grass
"Alaric" <alar...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bbdjm7$4aq$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
|
| "Seymour Grass" <JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote in message
| news:bb44fm$5ck69$1...@ID-167346.news.dfncis.de...
| > Cluelessness is, like the universe, boundless.
|
| Confusing, as you seem bounded by your own.
|
| > But most comically groundless and inflated out of all proportion is this
| risible old bubble of myth you want to blow about some sort of disability
| from which I suffer when it comes to knowing my "History"?
|
| You don't even know your OWN history. You change it as it suits you.
Put up or shut up. In point of fact, you will find nothing to put up, and
since you know how you lie to be repeating the stuff of groundless gossip
and slander, you will of course not bother to make such a fruitless search.
Yes, if there is the least semblance of a conscience in you, you do know how
you lie. The only interesting question to ponder is the reason why people
like you are moved to such extremes. Does envy know no limits?
--
John http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
"But who are my detractors? Is it necessary to ask? Envious cowards! I could
prove, if needs be, that they held frequent meetings to consider the most
efficacious means of slandering me." -- Jean Paul Marat
--
John http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
"I received a letter from John O'Leary, saying that I could do no more in
Dublin, for even the younger men had turned against me, were 'jealous'."
W.B. Yeats
--
JP David http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
New Site: http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
"We all behold with envious eyes,
Our equal rais'd above our size.
Who would not at a crowded show
Stand high himself, keep others low?
I love my friend as well as you
But would not have him stop my view.
Then let him have the higher post:
I ask but for an inch at most."
--Jonathan Swift
--
--
John http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
John's Joint:: http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
"What poet would not grieve to see,
His brethren write as well as he,
But rather than they should excell,
He'd wish his rivals all in hell."
--Jonathan Swift
--
John P David http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
"No less amusing was it to envisage the inevitable pack of crooks and
ninnies abusing the smiling marble, and ill with envy, maddened by their own
mediocrity, rushing in pattering hordes to the lemming's doom." Vladimir
Nabokov: _Look at the Harlequins_
--
"Nothing can be more contemptible than to suppose Public Records to be True.
Anopheles
"Seymour Grass" wrote:
>
> "Anopheles" <hi...@jeack.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bbe3pl$8a44h$1...@ID-34438.news.dfncis.de...
> | If I'm a floppy eared, 'roo, you . . .
>
> Tsk-tsk.
>
> | The only reason Alaric and I even bother replying to your bullshit is it
> | saves on the cost of bran.
>
> Pfft.
Oh, excellent come back. One of your best yet. Score: Humour: 0
Intelligence: 0 Courage: 0 Avoidance: 7.
I remember as a kid playing with one of those blowup, bottom weighted
clowns. You hit them, they bounce back, still smiling like a raving bloody
idiot. You've added a new touch to that concept by this repeated mantra that
somehow you're winning here. Like the knight in Monty Python, you're
legless, armless and harmless yet still scream dementedly that all the
characteristics that you show so vividly are somehow associated with others.
You're right in only one way, Puss. It is a no contest. No matter how much
you scream, hiss, vomit and puke, I'll do what I want, when I want, and
leave you to flounder and drown in all your pathetic infantile imaginings.
Remember, O ji san, you may think you're emperor around here but your
nudity's showing to all and sundry.
I'd tell you to go fuck yourself but I doubt you could manage even that.
Anopheles
R. Westermeyer
<JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote:
Well, what the fuck. It's posted as a "reply". Given the recent laugh
attacks Iv'e received for free today from this guy, I suppose an
honest critique is tit for tat. I got the time. Never read him, so I
suppose it's only decent given the number of contributions, etc.
>Daily Diary of Dr. Gerbils
>Reich Ministry of Propaganda & Mass Enlightenment
>
>*Die Lage* -- Friday, May 21, 2003
>
>I have never been so proud of our beloved Yiddish Führer as I was this
>morning at his press conference. When various representatives of the media
>had contacted me about having such a public confrontation, well, wouldn't
>you know that right down to nearly the last newsperson, they balked at the
>idea of holding forth with such an event at the place of our Führer's
>choosing?
Why would "fuhrer" be used? To me, it seems to ruin your desired
effect. Too fused to German Nazi. You need to use a different term if
you want to make this work. I mean, if irony is what you're after,
this is too easy.
>
>Too bad for them, it was Howard Johnson's or nothing. Still, it was all so
>terribly, from their point of view, obtuse and you could tell by their
>irascible manner throughout the proceedings that they would have been much
>happier at the Pizza Hut. You could just tell by the way they kept
>apologizing to the waitresses and busboys about how far beneath the dignity
>of Howard Johnson's they sincerely felt this whole fiasco to be.
I'm lost already. Is there some Hebrew scandal about Howard Johnson's?
Pizza hut?
>
>It was 8:30 a.m. on the dot when our party arrived, Goeringstein, myself and
>the Führer with the usual able and watchful cortege of Yiddish Brown Shirts,
>who, just to keep things friendly, stationed themselves here and there,
>outside and in, while we three went directly to a booth which was picked
>especially for its lovely view of Hollywood boulevard.
Arent' brown shirts the ones the Nazi youth wore? I understand you're
going for some sort of irony here, but subtly would work better. Same
reason as above. Too obvious. Challenge your reader. Your hostile
intent is alreay way too aparent.
I mean, go to town with your idea, but buy a pallet large enough to
mix some colors for the double digit IQ gallery attendees.
>The media, meanwhile
>were getting their cameras, lights and sound equipment set up between that
>line of booths and the lunch counter.
>
>When the waitress had brought an order of coffee, cream cheese and bagels,
>plus something I always like to have, a nice serving of celery and peanut
>butter, the Führer finally deigned to lend an ear to the barrage of
>questions that had been assaulting him from the moment we came into the
>place.
>
>In jeans and a t-shirt that had 'Van Nuys Soccer Moms Rule!', the
>thirty-something newsperson from CNN, looking for all the world like the
>teeth had rotted out of her comb, advanced with her mike: "Mr. Yidler! Is
>it true as we hear, that you really are not Jewish at all, since you are
>born of a Jewish father, and not a Jewish mother?"
CNN. Is the Anchor woman Jewish? I mean that's the stereotype about
the media, right? It's all jewish controled? I think I"m missing what
you are trying to highlight here.
>
>When he heard that one, he motioned across the table to me where I was
>sitting by the window, next to Goeringstein. He said, "Let me try one of
>those." I dutifully dipped a stalk of celery into the sherbet glass of
>chunky peanut butter and handed it to him. He looked at it, took a bite,
>and said, "Thank you, Herr Gerbils."
>
>Another T-Shirt pressed into view, this one boasting the figure of a Black
>Angus steer with a cartoon balloon to its mouth that read, "It's the Red
>Onion for Me!"
Red onion. I don't get it. Should I get it?
>Now this twenty-something reporter from NBC who looked like
>someone had cut the cord to his Schick,
At least you not touching Peter Jennings.
>did then push his mike forward to
>ask, "Why do you call him 'Herr Gerbils', when none of you are even German?"
>
>The Führer, holding the celery before his eyes said, "It's just kind of fun,
>is all." He pointed his celery at the person and said, "Ever try one of
>these?" Before that reporter could answer, the Soccer Mom newsperson had
>elbowed him in the ribs, and further pressing him out of her way, she said,
>"What about my question? How can you be a Jew without a Jewish mother?"
>
>Herr Yidler smiled. "You mean, how can I be the son of my father when a
>conceit of orthodox dogma clearly holds that I must be the son of someone
>else not Jewish, and am therefore the son of a whore?"
That's a logical question, actually.
>
>After her eyes had rolled with the punch of that, she said, "That wasn't my
>question, I asked . . ."
>
>"Yes," he said, "that was your question, to which I answer . . ."
>
>"Mr. Yidler!" She was really bristling! "In other words, not only are you
>not a Jew according to the views of Jews, but you reject one of the main
>tenets of the Jewish religion--and here you sit yet insisting that you are
>Jewish?"
>
>The NBC reporter flinched, taking a step back as Herr Yidler had pointed the
>stalk of celery at him: "Watch this," he said, keeping an eye on the guy.
>"In my hand is celery?" Getting only a chorus of snorts for an answer, he
>shrugged, took a bite off the end and contemplating the flavor, either of
>that or of a thought dawning on him, he beckoned to Goeringstein. Yidler
>whispered something to his ear; the man then sat back staring most
>quizzically. "Go on," said Yidler.
>
>"Yes, my Führer." Goeringstein pressed himself out of the booth. "Just as
>you say."
>
>Yidler returned his attention to the newspersons. "Now, is this cream
>cheese?" Using the celery, he indicated the sherbet.
>
>The Soccer Mom from CNN
You've identified her as such a million times already. Not comical
anymore. Subtlety, my junior, subtly. You're on the right track,
but, downward.
Plus, call me Bobby, but my take on soccer moms is medium rare on the
medium side, ordinary yuppie. do you have an idiosyncratic
translation?
>rolled her eyes for benefit of her colleagues. "Uh,
>I don't think so; I mean it's like so totally the peanut butter?"
>
>"A good thing, that you should believe the evidence of your eyes and not
>simply what some people say." He raised the celery again: "Now watch." He
>put the green stalk into the puffy dollop of cream cheese that had been
>served in the middle of the bagel platter. Taking it out, he showed it to
>her. "What's this?"
>
>"What's that? God! Did we come here to Howard Johnson's, of all places, at
> 8:30 in the morning for this?"
>
>"Now, now!" He tersely shook the celery at her.
"tersely". No. Adverb. precious few, sonny.
>"You asked a question and
>I'm giving you the answer." He turned the cream-cheese laden stalk before
>her eyes. "In your considered opinion, would you say this is cream-cheese
>and not peanut butter?"
>
>"Uh! Can anything be, like, more obvious?"
>
>"But you're wrong. It's not just cream-cheese. It's celery and cream-cheese.
>Either it's celery and cream-cheese, or it's celery and peanut butter. Am I
>right?"
>
>"Well God!" She snorted to her public. "So what?"
>
>Herr Yidler smiled as Goeringstein came to squeeze his corpulent girth back
>into the booth. With much ceremony, the Kosher Reich Marshal reached into
>his pocket, as then, most reverentially, he moved to place on the surface of
>the table a cellophane sealed object. Picking it up, Yidler began to open
>it, and when it was naked of its wrapper, he held it up for all to see:
>"What is this?"
It's tupperware passover food brought to the restaurant. And the
waiter is supposed to heat up with gloves on or some shit (and extra
buck tip if you do good). :)
Sorry. Have a friend who waits tables and is great with anecdotes.
>
>A voice in the crowd from a face hidden in the glare of lights declared,
>"It's a Mr. Peanut candy bar, for the godsakes!"
>
>"Very good!" Yidler smiled as he pressed one end of the thing into the
>cream-cheese, slowly pushing it into the dollop and pulling it out, going in
>and out, over and again, until he pulled it out at last to hold it up; "Ah!"
>He smiled, "Now is this Mr. Peanut Bar, any the less a Mr. Peanut bar now
>that it has had this experience with the cream cheese?" Before any comment
>could emerge from the many mouths wide-open with dismay, he opened his own
>and took a bite. "Hmmm," he said as he chewed. "Not bad." When at last he
>had swallowed, he was the one to comment: "Odd but the cream cheese, nice
>as it is, does nothing to cover or remove the taste of peanuts." He held up
>what remained of the bar. "Now let's see what happens when I do this!" He
>pressed the bar down into the sherbet of peanut butter, he pushed it in, he
>pulled it back, in--out--up--down.
>
And you accuse me of havng an anal fixation. Jeeze!
>"Ooooo!" I said, "That is so exciting to watch!"
>
>"Shut up!" Goeringstein had nudged me, leaning over to my ear. "Gerbils you
>insane deviant! This is an important press conference, so try to control
>your notorious perversions."
>
>What could I say? I turned to watch our Fuhrer take the peanut butter laden
>candy bar from the sherbet and raise it to his mouth. He bit off the end,
>and his little mustache went up and down as he chewed; contemplating the
>taste, he swallowed and said, "You know, nice as this is, I think I prefer
>the combination of cream cheese and peanuts to the pure experience of the
>peanuts alone, and do you know why?" In the dead silence that prevailed he
>slammed a fist to the table and declared, "I'll tell you! The cream-cheese
>enhances the taste of the peanuts, and they are made so much the more
>obvious by the mix."
>
>I was moved to applause, and Goeringstein joined me.
>
>"Mr. Yidler!" The CNN Soccer Mom had yet again forced herself forward. "This
>is ridiculous! The fact remains that the Jews of the world, or the
>'peanuts' as you would desire to make them--they reject you as a Mr. Peanut
>because peanuts and cream cheese, in their view do not mix. What do you
>have to say to that?"
God, rub the nose in it. SUBTLE!!! TRY IT ON FOR SIZE!!!
>
>After the round of delighted laughter from her colleagues had died down,
>Herr Yidler smiled: "You can talk and reject all you like. But the fact
>remains that when I do this," he shoved the Mr. Peanut back into the cream
>cheese, "it does not rob Mr. Peanut of his peanuts." He lifted the bar.
>"The cream cheese cannot take the peanuts away." He shoved the bar back into
>the cream cheese, took away his hand, wiped it with a napkin, and touched it
>to his mustache. He chuckled as he lowered the napkin. "The peanuts of my
>Jewish heritage are in me. You can talk, you can reject, you can
>discriminate and segregate, and speak the sadistic intent of your clownish
>insults all you like but it cannot remove one Jewish genetic peanut from my
>being and blood,
Don't peanuts come out in the stool?
Like Corn???
>it cannot stop my father's genes from being my genes, and
>it cannot above all remove from my mouth, my whole heart and soul the taste
>of being Jewish."
>
>"Nor, I might add," said Goeringstein, "would the lack of a Jewish mother
>have saved him from going to Hitler's ovens, nor does it preserve him from
>suffering the pain in this day of the ongoing persecutions against his flesh
>and blood."
See? Now you've gone over the top. No longer satire, irony, all the
shit you claimed it to be. Just spite and spew.
sorry. It will not do.
Indeed.
I think you need to figure out what it is you're trying to do, I mean,
if you want people to read this.
I thought (given your numerous trailers for this) you were creating a
twist in which a jew is as psychopathic and megalomaniac as hitler and
he's going after nonjews and especially germans. Am I correct in this
assumption?
Instead, it's a guy defending his heritage. At least that's my take.
Do you really want sympathy for your Fuhrer? Because I have sympathy
for him.
He seems to not trust his identity.
Seems to feel that his ma and pa half-and-half should be acceptable
(you've made a convincing argument that they are just fine, but the
way) but wants to fight about it. But it's unclear who he is
fighting. His enemies or his...allies.
Anyway. There. I read you.
HOpe my comments were helpful.
--Bob
BTW, you might want to see a movie called "The Believer" (just
released on DVD). I don't know, but maybe it's the sort of character
you are trying to create.
Biggie Gregg
What EXACTLY is the sound of one hand clapping? I'm serious! What is it?
Here's my best guess...
http://www.dontbuyfrenchcrap.com
R. Westermeyer <wst...@cts.com> wrote in message news:<3q62ev8cari38ouan...@4ax.com>...
Seymour Grass
| On Thu, 22 May 2003 21:01:03 -0500, "Seymour Grass"
| <JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote:
|
|
| Well, what the fuck. It's posted as a "reply". Given the recent laugh
| attacks Iv'e received for free today from this guy, I suppose an
| honest critique is tit for tat. I got the time. Never read him, so I
| suppose it's only decent given the number of contributions, etc.
You don't mean to say that all this fabulous fun of flaming today has worked
to promote your interest in what more madness you might find over here in
the Seymour Grass department? Well it just goes to show that effort given
in earnest is never gone to waste. This is most inspiring indeed!
Welcome to the world of *Wheels on Fire*, Robert.
|
| >Daily Diary of Dr. Gerbils
| >Reich Ministry of Propaganda & Mass Enlightenment
| >
| >*Die Lage* -- Friday, May 21, 2003
| >
| >I have never been so proud of our beloved Yiddish Führer as I was this
| >morning at his press conference. When various representatives of the
media
| >had contacted me about having such a public confrontation, well, wouldn't
| >you know that right down to nearly the last newsperson, they balked at
the
| >idea of holding forth with such an event at the place of our Führer's
| >choosing?
|
| Why would "fuhrer" be used? To me, it seems to ruin your desired
| effect. Too fused to German Nazi. You need to use a different term if
| you want to make this work. I mean, if irony is what you're after,
| this is too easy.
Perhaps. But maybe your sudden immersion in this 3rd chapter is like
plunging into a hot tub without benefit of the gradual warming provided by
the an introduction in the first two chapters which are located here . . .
http://jpdavid.bravepages.com/index.html
You are so right to suggest that use of the title "Führer" is a very touchy
matter and if it is to be used at all, it must be done with subtlety, in
such a way that it does not just outright scald a reader's sense of
credibility. I will note, however, that the English term "Leader", while I
do make use of it from time to time, just does not render the same force as
the German. I think the trick is to find the right way to justify the use
of the term or reject it only if that should prove impossible.
| >
| >Too bad for them, it was Howard Johnson's or nothing. Still, it was all
so
| >terribly, from their point of view, obtuse and you could tell by their
| >irascible manner throughout the proceedings that they would have been
much
| >happier at the Pizza Hut. You could just tell by the way they kept
| >apologizing to the waitresses and busboys about how far beneath the
dignity
| >of Howard Johnson's they sincerely felt this whole fiasco to be.
|
| I'm lost already. Is there some Hebrew scandal about Howard Johnson's?
| Pizza hut?
Well, if you really are going to place a person in the position of having to
explain and justify his 60's era counter-cultural arrogance, okay! As to
Howard Johnson's, I guess you just had to be there when those restaurants
first started to appear around the country--and most especially when one
showed up on the corner of Hollywood & Vine . . . .
Man! this is way harder to explain than I would have thought. Maybe by
taking "Pizza Hut" first? Okay, that's a totally uncool name for a place to
get Pizza because the word "hut" hasn't a damn thing to do with pizza and
you could travel from one end of Italy to the other and never find a "pizza
hut". Okay this has to do with a disgust for crass commercialism which is
so outwardly crass that the people putting out that so-called "pizza" have
utterly no respect for the Italian culture of pizza making. These reporters
in my story at least know that, such that they think a press conference with
a Jewish fascist would be cool at a Pizza Hut, but not at Howard Johnsons.
Oh, really? Well, they don't even know how so totally much more clueless
that is.
Mel Brooks in "Blazing Saddles" had damn near everything in the movie named
after "Howard Johnson" -- that's how much people in Hollywood hated to see
that totally bourgeois *hut* show up on the corner of Hollywood Boulevard
and Vine Street. Okay? People in Hollywood with the taste to have a respect
for the town and its whole ethos never go to Howard Johnsons, they go to
Musso & Franks which can be found nowhere except on Hollywood Boulevard,
they will shop across the street at the Broadway which is strictly L.A., and
during the years I was there, people went half a block down Vine to the
Brown Derby. But all those places have to do with Hollywood, as they are
Hollywood, but Howard Johnson's is not. That's why Mel Brooks tied the name
of "Howard Johnson's" to his saddle and dragged it all over the west, and
had so much fun hooping and hollering with Slim Pickens while doing it.
| >It was 8:30 a.m. on the dot when our party arrived, Goeringstein, myself
and
| >the Führer with the usual able and watchful cortege of Yiddish Brown
Shirts,
| >who, just to keep things friendly, stationed themselves here and there,
| >outside and in, while we three went directly to a booth which was picked
| >especially for its lovely view of Hollywood boulevard.
|
| Arent' brown shirts the ones the Nazi youth wore?
They were first and foremost the uniform of the S.A., the stormtroopers
(*sturmabteilung*), Ernst Roehm's 'free corps' militia which actually
preceded it's association with the NSDAP and its later creation of the black
uniformed SS. And yes, the Hitler Youth also had brown uniforms.
| I understand you're
| going for some sort of irony here, but subtly would work better. Same
| reason as above. Too obvious. Challenge your reader. Your hostile
| intent is alreay way too aparent.
Maybe, but again, same suggestion as before regarding an intro by means of
the earlier chapters.
|
| I mean, go to town with your idea, but buy a pallet large enough to
| mix some colors for the double digit IQ gallery attendees.
|
| >The media, meanwhile
| >were getting their cameras, lights and sound equipment set up between
that
| >line of booths and the lunch counter.
| >
| >When the waitress had brought an order of coffee, cream cheese and
bagels,
| >plus something I always like to have, a nice serving of celery and peanut
| >butter, the Führer finally deigned to lend an ear to the barrage of
| >questions that had been assaulting him from the moment we came into the
| >place.
| >
| >In jeans and a t-shirt that had 'Van Nuys Soccer Moms Rule!', the
| >thirty-something newsperson from CNN, looking for all the world like the
| >teeth had rotted out of her comb, advanced with her mike: "Mr. Yidler!
Is
| >it true as we hear, that you really are not Jewish at all, since you are
| >born of a Jewish father, and not a Jewish mother?"
|
| CNN. Is the Anchor woman Jewish?
It wouldn't seem to matter one way or the other.
| I mean that's the stereotype about
| the media, right? It's all jewish controled? I think I"m missing what
| you are trying to highlight here.
I'm certainly not promoting any part of that stereotype, but another one
entirely, that the media is too clueless to be under force of any sort of
control except pseudo-liberal political correctness. Note that I don't see
them as "liberals" because a true liberal would not accept any regime of
political correctness. Christopher Hitchens and Camille Paglia are
free-thinking liberals but Eleanor Clift and Dan Rather are too bourgeois
and tenured to be anything except people with their sucked thumbs in the
air--whatever appears to be the prevailing climate of opinion among their
colleagues, that is what theirs will be.
| >
| >When he heard that one, he motioned across the table to me where I was
| >sitting by the window, next to Goeringstein. He said, "Let me try one of
| >those." I dutifully dipped a stalk of celery into the sherbet glass of
| >chunky peanut butter and handed it to him. He looked at it, took a bite,
| >and said, "Thank you, Herr Gerbils."
| >
| >Another T-Shirt pressed into view, this one boasting the figure of a
Black
| >Angus steer with a cartoon balloon to its mouth that read, "It's the Red
| >Onion for Me!"
|
| Red onion. I don't get it. Should I get it?
Oh, it just sort of flows from Howard Johnson's and Pizza Hut. Overkill,
maybe.
|
| >Now this twenty-something reporter from NBC who looked like
| >someone had cut the cord to his Schick,
|
| At least you not touching Peter Jennings.
He won't escape for long.
|
| >did then push his mike forward to
| >ask, "Why do you call him 'Herr Gerbils', when none of you are even
German?"
| >
| >The Führer, holding the celery before his eyes said, "It's just kind of
fun,
| >is all." He pointed his celery at the person and said, "Ever try one of
| >these?" Before that reporter could answer, the Soccer Mom newsperson had
| >elbowed him in the ribs, and further pressing him out of her way, she
said,
| >"What about my question? How can you be a Jew without a Jewish mother?"
| >
| >Herr Yidler smiled. "You mean, how can I be the son of my father when a
| >conceit of orthodox dogma clearly holds that I must be the son of someone
| >else not Jewish, and am therefore the son of a whore?"
|
| That's a logical question, actually.
It comes to that, and worse, as I learn only today while reading Hannah
Arendt's "Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil." Any
person born of a Jewish man by a non-Jewish mother is regarded under
Talmudic Law as a bastard and may neither marry a Jew nor be buried as a
Jew. Too bad these orthodox bigots weren't given any choice in the matter
in Hitler's Reich when the ashes of so many of "bastards" where mixed and
buried--married with those of all the other Jews--at Auschwitz.
I hadn't noticed it till you mention it, but you're right.
| Subtlety, my junior, subtly. You're on the right track,
| but, downward.
|
| Plus, call me Bobby, but my take on soccer moms is medium rare on the
| medium side, ordinary yuppie. do you have an idiosyncratic
| translation?
They are the bourgeoisie. Is that what you're looking for?
|
| >rolled her eyes for benefit of her colleagues. "Uh,
| >I don't think so; I mean it's like so totally the peanut butter?"
| >
| >"A good thing, that you should believe the evidence of your eyes and not
| >simply what some people say." He raised the celery again: "Now watch."
He
| >put the green stalk into the puffy dollop of cream cheese that had been
| >served in the middle of the bagel platter. Taking it out, he showed it to
| >her. "What's this?"
| >
| >"What's that? God! Did we come here to Howard Johnson's, of all places,
at
| > 8:30 in the morning for this?"
| >
| >"Now, now!" He tersely shook the celery at her.
|
| "tersely". No. Adverb.
Here we part company: I don't subscribe to the anti-adverb school.
| precious few, sonny.
That sounds like Talmudic Law to me. I don't bow to it.|
|
| >"You asked a question and
| >I'm giving you the answer." He turned the cream-cheese laden stalk before
| >her eyes. "In your considered opinion, would you say this is cream-cheese
| >and not peanut butter?"
| >
| >"Uh! Can anything be, like, more obvious?"
| >
| >"But you're wrong. It's not just cream-cheese. It's celery and
cream-cheese.
| >Either it's celery and cream-cheese, or it's celery and peanut butter.
Am I
| >right?"
| >
| >"Well God!" She snorted to her public. "So what?"
| >
| >Herr Yidler smiled as Goeringstein came to squeeze his corpulent girth
back
| >into the booth. With much ceremony, the Kosher Reich Marshal reached into
| >his pocket, as then, most reverentially, he moved to place on the surface
of
| >the table a cellophane sealed object. Picking it up, Yidler began to open
| >it, and when it was naked of its wrapper, he held it up for all to see:
| >"What is this?"
|
| It's tupperware passover food brought to the restaurant. And the
| waiter is supposed to heat up with gloves on or some shit (and extra
| buck tip if you do good). :)
You so funny, I laugh in my pants.
|
| Sorry. Have a friend who waits tables and is great with anecdotes.
|
| >
| >A voice in the crowd from a face hidden in the glare of lights declared,
| >"It's a Mr. Peanut candy bar, for the godsakes!"
| >
| >"Very good!" Yidler smiled as he pressed one end of the thing into the
| >cream-cheese, slowly pushing it into the dollop and pulling it out, going
in
| >and out, over and again, until he pulled it out at last to hold it up;
"Ah!"
| >He smiled, "Now is this Mr. Peanut Bar, any the less a Mr. Peanut bar now
| >that it has had this experience with the cream cheese?" Before any
comment
| >could emerge from the many mouths wide-open with dismay, he opened his
own
| >and took a bite. "Hmmm," he said as he chewed. "Not bad." When at last
he
| >had swallowed, he was the one to comment: "Odd but the cream cheese,
nice
| >as it is, does nothing to cover or remove the taste of peanuts." He held
up
| >what remained of the bar. "Now let's see what happens when I do this!" He
| >pressed the bar down into the sherbet of peanut butter, he pushed it in,
he
| >pulled it back, in--out--up--down.
| >
|
| And you accuse me of havng an anal fixation. Jeeze!
You must, if that's what you get out of that ink-blot, Dude.
What? The "Soccer Mom" or the genetic Jewish "peanut butter"?
| >
| >After the round of delighted laughter from her colleagues had died down,
| >Herr Yidler smiled: "You can talk and reject all you like. But the fact
| >remains that when I do this," he shoved the Mr. Peanut back into the
cream
| >cheese, "it does not rob Mr. Peanut of his peanuts." He lifted the bar.
| >"The cream cheese cannot take the peanuts away." He shoved the bar back
into
| >the cream cheese, took away his hand, wiped it with a napkin, and touched
it
| >to his mustache. He chuckled as he lowered the napkin. "The peanuts of my
| >Jewish heritage are in me. You can talk, you can reject, you can
| >discriminate and segregate, and speak the sadistic intent of your
clownish
| >insults all you like but it cannot remove one Jewish genetic peanut from
my
| >being and blood,
|
| Don't peanuts come out in the stool?
|
| Like Corn???
See? There it is again. No big whoop since it's a perfectly common neurosis
found most especially among artists, painters. However, only Freudian
psychoanalysis is equipped to get down with it as these contemporary
psychological witch doctors of cognitive quacks have thrown out the
psychosexual baby with the Freudian bathwater. I recommend a regime of
self-analysis which can be accomplished by taking about a year to read
everything Freud wrote, keeping in mind that everything he wrote was not
right, but so much as amounts to the true goods is worth the effort and the
fun of studying it all. I have yet to run into a cognitive psychologist who
has studied Freud sufficiently to know why he rejects Freud. He does so
because he is told so.
|
| >it cannot stop my father's genes from being my genes, and
| >it cannot above all remove from my mouth, my whole heart and soul the
taste
| >of being Jewish."
| >
| >"Nor, I might add," said Goeringstein, "would the lack of a Jewish mother
| >have saved him from going to Hitler's ovens, nor does it preserve him
from
| >suffering the pain in this day of the ongoing persecutions against his
flesh
| >and blood."
|
| See? Now you've gone over the top. No longer satire, irony, all the
| shit you claimed it to be. Just spite and spew.
I'll agree that the tone of that is not satirical. As to the "spite", I'd
have to hear you explain just why you hear it as that. What I hear in it is
a certain whininess that I don't want, because when it comes to these issues
I want them to be expressed with strength, even if that should have to come
with cold-blooded rage in a context of revenge. I want nothing whiny
sounding in this story at all.
Yup. There are elements that remain up in the air. You're quite right
about that.
|
| I thought (given your numerous trailers for this) you were creating a
| twist in which a jew is as psychopathic and megalomaniac as hitler and
| he's going after nonjews and especially germans. Am I correct in this
| assumption?
This question settles right at the crux of the thing, and unfortunately, I
can't answer it since only the story itself has that answer. Some chapters
I've thrown out because they were taking the thing in a direction that was
hard to go with success. Gerbils is the diarist and his views, looking
toward an actual extermination of the Gentile are like those of his
namesake, Dr. Goebbels. But the question arises as to whether this is
really Yidler's ideal or if, rather, on the other hand he is up to something
of which Gerbils has no earthly ken. As we hear the story reported by
Gerbils, we are privy to his sadism, his desire for revenge, his bigotry but
also his consternation about some of the things his Leader is really all
about.
|
| Instead, it's a guy defending his heritage. At least that's my take.
|
| Do you really want sympathy for your Fuhrer? Because I have sympathy
| for him.
Well, I guess that is something I can do nothing about so far as how he is
taken by a reader; I can only be true to his character and let the chips
fall as they may.
|
| He seems to not trust his identity.
Again, I really can't comment on that.
|
| Seems to feel that his ma and pa half-and-half should be acceptable.
Most assuredly.
| (you've made a convincing argument that they are just fine, but the
| way) but wants to fight about it. But it's unclear who he is
| fighting. His enemies or his...allies.
Yes, and this is the tension that the novel must resolve.
|
| Anyway. There. I read you.
|
| HOpe my comments were helpful.
I believe they were, yes. And I thank you. Quite a pleasant surprise, I
must say!
|
| --Bob
|
| BTW, you might want to see a movie called "The Believer" (just
| released on DVD). I don't know, but maybe it's the sort of character
| you are trying to create.
Oh really? I'll stop at the video store tonight. I always like a good
video recommendation. Thanks again!
"Chicago, New York, Detroit, it's all on the same street -- pack it up and
see what tomorrow brings." --Robert Hunter
R. Westermeyer
<JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote:
>
>"R. Westermeyer" <wst...@cts.com> wrote in message
>news:3q62ev8cari38ouan...@4ax.com...
>| On Thu, 22 May 2003 21:01:03 -0500, "Seymour Grass"
>| <JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote:
>|
>|
>| Well, what the fuck. It's posted as a "reply". Given the recent laugh
>| attacks Iv'e received for free today from this guy, I suppose an
>| honest critique is tit for tat. I got the time. Never read him, so I
>| suppose it's only decent given the number of contributions, etc.
>
>You don't mean to say that all this fabulous fun of flaming today has worked
>to promote your interest in what more madness you might find over here in
>the Seymour Grass department? Well it just goes to show that effort given
>in earnest is never gone to waste. This is most inspiring indeed!
>
One of your problems is that you read to much into things. It's been
your bane on this group. Well, one of them.
I'm merely suggesting that it makes your hostile agenda to obvious.
Too personal. Not to overkill the word, but subtle. Has nothing to do
with me wanting to minimize the holocast. Again, you need to stop
mind-reading.
Any time someone challenges you, you consider it an attack or to have
some ugly, malevolent motive.
Whatever.
My response would be "so what?" Pizza Hut makes shitty pizza, that's
all I know. Not part of the Hollywood Blvd I see. HB is just the way
it should be. A gloriously filthy disappointment to tourists. A sad,
sad street reeking of desperation and failure. I'm up in L.A. a couple
times a week. I love to drive down past the theatres, where these
people are clenching their cameras thinking they're going to get a
glimpse of Tom Cruise stepping over a puddle of vomit, or exiting the
discount t-shirt shop after the babbling homeless schizophrenic.
>Mel Brooks in "Blazing Saddles" had damn near everything in the movie named
>after "Howard Johnson" -- that's how much people in Hollywood hated to see
>that totally bourgeois *hut* show up on the corner of Hollywood Boulevard
>and Vine Street. Okay? People in Hollywood with the taste to have a respect
>for the town and its whole ethos never go to Howard Johnsons, they go to
>Musso & Franks which can be found nowhere except on Hollywood Boulevard,
>they will shop across the street at the Broadway which is strictly L.A., and
>during the years I was there, people went half a block down Vine to the
>Brown Derby. But all those places have to do with Hollywood, as they are
>Hollywood, but Howard Johnson's is not. That's why Mel Brooks tied the name
>of "Howard Johnson's" to his saddle and dragged it all over the west, and
>had so much fun hooping and hollering with Slim Pickens while doing it.
Blazing Saddles was a funny movie. Not a movie that would be made
today. Even by Brooks.
>| >It was 8:30 a.m. on the dot when our party arrived, Goeringstein, myself
>and
>| >the Führer with the usual able and watchful cortege of Yiddish Brown
>Shirts,
>| >who, just to keep things friendly, stationed themselves here and there,
>| >outside and in, while we three went directly to a booth which was picked
>| >especially for its lovely view of Hollywood boulevard.
>|
>| Arent' brown shirts the ones the Nazi youth wore?
>
>They were first and foremost the uniform of the S.A., the stormtroopers
>(*sturmabteilung*), Ernst Roehm's 'free corps' militia which actually
>preceded it's association with the NSDAP and its later creation of the black
>uniformed SS. And yes, the Hitler Youth also had brown uniforms.
Thanks.
Okay.
>
>| I mean that's the stereotype about
>| the media, right? It's all jewish controled? I think I"m missing what
>| you are trying to highlight here.
>
>I'm certainly not promoting any part of that stereotype, but another one
>entirely, that the media is too clueless to be under force of any sort of
>control except pseudo-liberal political correctness. Note that I don't see
>them as "liberals" because a true liberal would not accept any regime of
>political correctness.
"The media", that is, the American media, broadcast especially, gave
its citizens a fucking incorrect version of the war in Iraq. Nothing
liberal about that. It's pro-Israel anti-arab, and it shames me that
the rest of the world knows this, and despises this country for it.
You don't see it either. In fact, if I read you correctly, it would
seem you see the Americna media as leaning in the oposite direction.
This I can't understand at all.
>Christopher Hitchens and Camille Paglia are
>free-thinking liberals but Eleanor Clift and Dan Rather are too bourgeois
>and tenured to be anything except people with their sucked thumbs in the
>air--whatever appears to be the prevailing climate of opinion among their
>colleagues, that is what theirs will be.
Paglia is the greatest. Just purchased the BFI volume on HIchcock's
"The Birds" she recently authored.
>
>| >
>| >When he heard that one, he motioned across the table to me where I was
>| >sitting by the window, next to Goeringstein. He said, "Let me try one of
>| >those." I dutifully dipped a stalk of celery into the sherbet glass of
>| >chunky peanut butter and handed it to him. He looked at it, took a bite,
>| >and said, "Thank you, Herr Gerbils."
>| >
>| >Another T-Shirt pressed into view, this one boasting the figure of a
>Black
>| >Angus steer with a cartoon balloon to its mouth that read, "It's the Red
>| >Onion for Me!"
>|
>| Red onion. I don't get it. Should I get it?
>
>Oh, it just sort of flows from Howard Johnson's and Pizza Hut. Overkill,
>maybe.
Still don't get it. I like red onion with my bagle and lox
and cream cheese.
>| >Now this twenty-something reporter from NBC who looked like
>| >someone had cut the cord to his Schick,
>|
>| At least you not touching Peter Jennings.
>
>He won't escape for long.
Escape what? Peter Jennings is one of the few who actually seem to be
reporting the news.
>|
>| >did then push his mike forward to
>| >ask, "Why do you call him 'Herr Gerbils', when none of you are even
>German?"
>| >
>| >The Führer, holding the celery before his eyes said, "It's just kind of
>fun,
>| >is all." He pointed his celery at the person and said, "Ever try one of
>| >these?" Before that reporter could answer, the Soccer Mom newsperson had
>| >elbowed him in the ribs, and further pressing him out of her way, she
>said,
>| >"What about my question? How can you be a Jew without a Jewish mother?"
>| >
>| >Herr Yidler smiled. "You mean, how can I be the son of my father when a
>| >conceit of orthodox dogma clearly holds that I must be the son of someone
>| >else not Jewish, and am therefore the son of a whore?"
>|
>| That's a logical question, actually.
>
>It comes to that, and worse, as I learn only today while reading Hannah
>Arendt's "Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil." Any
>person born of a Jewish man by a non-Jewish mother is regarded under
>Talmudic Law as a bastard and may neither marry a Jew nor be buried as a
>Jew. Too bad these orthodox bigots weren't given any choice in the matter
>in Hitler's Reich when the ashes of so many of "bastards" where mixed and
>buried--married with those of all the other Jews--at Auschwitz.
It's always seemed pretty ridiculous to me.
Wicked marginalizeing within a supposedly tight-knit, us-and-them,
fraternity.
Guess humans can't get away from it.
Some animals are always going to be more equal than others, I guess.
Okay. LIke the theater-full I sat amongst with my son, Tim, this
morning watching "Finding Nemo". It was revolting how the movie was
aimed solely at this very fortunate white upper middle class and their
very fortunate number-one agenda of making sure their little treasure
on a pedestal gets just the right amount of leash to explore outside
the tract neighborhood.
Disney really gets on my nerves these days.
Still don't get it.
I don't believe everything is an inkblot. We all perceive things
differently, but to pathologize every percept is ascinine.
It's easy to meld another's words, dreams, rants, etc to suit their a
priori conceptionation.
Ever heard of the procrustean bed method of resolving dilemmas?
Hmmmm. Maybe. Isn't there a risk of increasing self-absorbtion and
self-importance with all that...self-focus and self-mystery solving?
>
>|
>| >it cannot stop my father's genes from being my genes, and
>| >it cannot above all remove from my mouth, my whole heart and soul the
>taste
>| >of being Jewish."
>| >
>| >"Nor, I might add," said Goeringstein, "would the lack of a Jewish mother
>| >have saved him from going to Hitler's ovens, nor does it preserve him
>from
>| >suffering the pain in this day of the ongoing persecutions against his
>flesh
>| >and blood."
>|
>| See? Now you've gone over the top. No longer satire, irony, all the
>| shit you claimed it to be. Just spite and spew.
>
>I'll agree that the tone of that is not satirical. As to the "spite", I'd
>have to hear you explain just why you hear it as that. What I hear in it is
>a certain whininess that I don't want, because when it comes to these issues
>I want them to be expressed with strength, even if that should have to come
>with cold-blooded rage in a context of revenge. I want nothing whiny
>sounding in this story at all.
Isn't there something between cold blooded rage and whiny?
Don't get me wrong, I grapple with finding that medium myself.
Well that's good.
>|
>| I thought (given your numerous trailers for this) you were creating a
>| twist in which a jew is as psychopathic and megalomaniac as hitler and
>| he's going after nonjews and especially germans. Am I correct in this
>| assumption?
>
>This question settles right at the crux of the thing, and unfortunately, I
>can't answer it since only the story itself has that answer. Some chapters
>I've thrown out because they were taking the thing in a direction that was
>hard to go with success. Gerbils is the diarist and his views, looking
>toward an actual extermination of the Gentile are like those of his
>namesake, Dr. Goebbels. But the question arises as to whether this is
>really Yidler's ideal or if, rather, on the other hand he is up to something
>of which Gerbils has no earthly ken. As we hear the story reported by
>Gerbils, we are privy to his sadism, his desire for revenge, his bigotry but
>also his consternation about some of the things his Leader is really all
>about.
>
>|
>| Instead, it's a guy defending his heritage. At least that's my take.
>|
>| Do you really want sympathy for your Fuhrer? Because I have sympathy
>| for him.
>
>Well, I guess that is something I can do nothing about so far as how he is
>taken by a reader; I can only be true to his character and let the chips
>fall as they may.
>|
>| He seems to not trust his identity.
>
>Again, I really can't comment on that.
Fair enough.
>
>|
>| Seems to feel that his ma and pa half-and-half should be acceptable.
>
>Most assuredly.
>
>| (you've made a convincing argument that they are just fine, but the
>| way) but wants to fight about it. But it's unclear who he is
>| fighting. His enemies or his...allies.
>
>Yes, and this is the tension that the novel must resolve.
>
>|
>| Anyway. There. I read you.
>|
>| HOpe my comments were helpful.
>
>I believe they were, yes. And I thank you. Quite a pleasant surprise, I
>must say!
>
My pleasure.
>| --Bob
>|
>| BTW, you might want to see a movie called "The Believer" (just
>| released on DVD). I don't know, but maybe it's the sort of character
>| you are trying to create.
>
>Oh really? I'll stop at the video store tonight. I always like a good
>video recommendation. Thanks again!
I hope you do rent it. I would be curious to know what you think of
it.
I felt the movie was okay; basically about an extremely
intelligent--genius intelligence-- Jewish Skinhead. He hates his
identity. He hides the fact that he is jewish and is actually more
vicious than his gentile psychopathic friends toward jews, especially
orthodox ones.
Some of it was over the top, the fact that he was so extraordinarily
brilliant, the ending, less satisfying than American History X (where
the character was also in the superior range of intelligence), and a
little bait-and-switch with the agenda, instead of grim and REAL
portrait of the tenacity of such hatred, like it could have been if
the director had been able to control himself and make up his mind as
to what he was trying to achieve. Like Taxi Driver was.
I ramble.
Maybe subtle is not the right word.
--Bob
***
"Upward toward the sun we go."
"Careful plants, be careful plants".
---The Residents
R. Westermeyer
wrote:
Have absolutely no idea why this posted under "find". It's a response
to a previous post of David's: portrait of Hate, I think.
--Bob
Seymour Grass
I said I'd rent and watch it tonight, and I did. There is one word for it
and that is *brilliant*. But to suggest that the characters in this Punch &
Judy Show of mine would bear any resemblance to the dramatic tragedy that
Henry Bean has created in his filmic masterwork is problematical, and not
that my brand of "Jewish Nazi" by comparison is in every respect intended as
a "silly" (as someone has recently charged) burlesque.
No. Bean's vision is based on an actual person, Daniel Burros, a true to
life "Jewish Nazi" of early 60's vintage, a sad bipolar chubby little
schmuck who rose to such prominence in the American Nazi Party that he
worked fully a year and a half shoulder to shoulder with George Lincoln
Rockwell in Arlington before a falling out which then led to his joining the
KKK to become official New York State organizer for Robert Shelton, a
position he held till his suicide on the very day (Halloween) he was exposed
by the Times for a Jew.
So, by means of artistic transformation, in *The Believer* you get a Jewish
kid who is so uptight about the image of Jew as victim that he dissociates
himself from his own Jewishness to become a butt-kicking, bloody-minded,
jewed, screwed and tattooed Nazi skinhead to improve his sense of
self-esteem, if even to the extent that he will now contribute to the
further victimization of all other Jews.
My Jewish Nazis, to the contrary are dedicated to the sweet retribution of
stealing the Nazi thunder from Gentiles and taking for the Jews. What, of
all things would an Anti-Semite despise more than to wake up one day to find
that his own fascist toys had been brazenly snatched right out from under hi
s nose by a bunch of Jews--Jews who are saying, "We are the *real* Nazis and
you are only play-acting--so step aside you uncircumcised schmutzes, while
we show you how this is really meant to be done."
Further, in Bean's screenplay, the Jews remain as victims and objects of
pity. In my vision, Jews have risen above all that whining to give Gentiles
a taste of their own medicine. You may say that not all Gentiles are to
blame for that poisonous Nazi potion? Certainly not--so, that is just the
point: it's no good if it goes to those who are to blame--it is not justice
which is here lacking, but injustice. That is what my Jewish Fuehrer is
here in *Wheels on Fire* to deliver to the Gentile, his long overdue taste
of injustice, of being blamed for what he never did and that is the only
medicine that will ever serve the cure as the Gentile. My Jewish Nazis are
being created to no other purpose than to teach the Gentile what that's
like, that they may experience the most exquisite existential pain man can
ever feel--false accusation, stigma, the shame of being made scapegoat. Only
by that will a Gentile learn the necessary empathy for a Jew or Black man or
any other minority which can come in no other way than by the teaching of
experience--only hearing about it and thinking about it is not good; that
may lead to some nice sloppy lip-service of sentimental sympathy, but never
the necessary empathy.
Man proves it every second of every day, that until he walks a mile in the
other person's shoes, he will go on trodding on that other fellow's shoes
without even knowing he is doing it.
Man's sense of justice does not come by birth or by books but only by the
kick in the head of personal experience.
So, in one sense, yes, you're right, there is a character similarity in that
Bean's Jewish Nazi and mine are both sick and tired of Jewish whining and
wailing, but the difference is that that his Jewish Nazi further victimizes
other Jews, whereas my Jewish Nazi in the words of Dr. Gerbils, "puts the
victimization right where it belongs for a change on the heads of those
spoiled ass, coddled little crybaby milksop wet-behind-the-ears whining
Gentiles."
Only when this has been done, according to my Jewish Fuehrer, will all the
people of the world come to understand why the Muslims may not have Mecca
and Jerusalem both--a thing, again, you will never get, till you've suffered
enough to get it.
"The shortsighted squeal, they always squeal except when they are being
diddled or hypnotized." --Ezra Pound
Seymour Grass
| >They are the bourgeoisie. Is that what you're looking for?
|
| Okay. LIke the theater-full I sat amongst with my son, Tim, this
| morning watching "Finding Nemo". It was revolting how the movie was
| aimed solely at this very fortunate white upper middle class and their
| very fortunate number-one agenda of making sure their little treasure
| on a pedestal gets just the right amount of leash to explore outside
| the tract neighborhood.
|
| Disney really gets on my nerves these days.
Why stop at Disney? What you describe holds all across the board. Did you
click on the interview with Bean on "The Believer" DVD? After he'd finished
production (on an extreme low budget) and the film was totally in the can,
it took fully a year to get a distribution deal, and as we see, it was
totally not with the majors. It got a premiere on Showtime, but so far as
getting to the neighborhood theatre? Has it? How did I hear about it?
Word of mouth--from *you*; given time, I might have noticed it at the video
store, but then again, maybe not.
| >| >"But you're wrong. It's not just cream-cheese. It's celery and
| >cream-cheese.
| >| >Either it's celery and cream-cheese, or it's celery and peanut butter.
| >Am I
| >| >right?"
|
|
| Still don't get it.
Nothing to get, a superfluous exchange there merely to give Goeringstein
time to get back with the Mr. Peanut bar. It needs to be replaced with
something more to the point.
| Hmmmm. Maybe. Isn't there a risk of increasing self-absorbtion and
| self-importance with all that...self-focus and self-mystery solving?
Not if it's done as Freud himself did it (to himself) with the
uncompromising determination not to turn away from every embarrassing
realization that arises. It is anything but a pleasant, self-esteem
building, ego-gratifying process--it is in fact the exact opposite. It can
be altogether so enervating as forcing yourself to a session of 50 or 100
pushups, every time you have to face some unpleasant fact about yourself,
your parents or siblings.
Freud and Jung both relied a great deal on dream analysis. Dream content
may well be directly and literally relevant to a person's repressed rage,
fear, grief over various traumas but even if some or most dreams are just
some chaotic, random psychic representation, the interpretation *you* give
to them makes every dream a Rorschach study. Chiefly profitable to a regime
of self-analysis is, of course, first to study Freud's descriptions of the
common psychoneuroses, both as described in his lectures and as illustrated
by his case studies (all of which are fascinating stories) and in the
process of doing so, one would think of one's own psyche as the ever-present
potential case in point that may (or may not) best illustrate what is being
studied--but these neuroses are so common, indeed, even the most bizarre
case study of a total psychotic will apply to some lesser extent to
everyman's perfectly "harmless" neurosis, as being cut from a single pattern
of psychic aberration. In this day there are many psychologists and
cognitive psychiatrists who care not to face that fact about *themselves*,
so they reject Freud for holding that mirror to their faces.
There is not a human being alive that is not in one way or another neurotic,
or that is, to some degree being tormented by unconscious representations of
repression due to being hung-up in one of the earlier stages (anal, oral,
Oedipal) of psychosexual development--depending on which stage the salient,
traumatic events occurred.
One of Jung's students, the psychoanalyst Von Franz speaks of the Jungian
process of "individuation" by which a person may become himself, free of the
destructive, retarding influences that keep one bound to hostile, needy,
sado-masochistic relationships of the sort that keep repeating the neurosis
creating trauma, with new faces stepping into the same old roles. It's a
cycle that must be broken by the psychoanalytic "individuation" process,
allowing that the kind of relationships with a true depth of affection and
psychic growth may be established. Study of one's own recurring unconscious
representations, comes by the interpretations we give to dreams, slips of
the tongue, the words that others speak to us. These key clues to our
hangups, or that is to say 'delusions' can be found in the false
interpretations we so often put as the meaning of what other people say to
us. When we see these not so benign, mildly paranoiac representations
recurring, when we keep hearing the same thing, we discover the patterns of
what our own unconscious mind is saying to us by that other person's words,
as the Unconscious is always trying to work out the thing we must face about
ourselves. In this, we see what Jung called a "meander" a concept well
worth reading about in "Man and His Symbols".
| >I'll agree that the tone of that is not satirical. As to the "spite",
I'd
| >have to hear you explain just why you hear it as that. What I hear in it
is
| >a certain whininess that I don't want, because when it comes to these
issues
| >I want them to be expressed with strength, even if that should have to
come
| >with cold-blooded rage in a context of revenge. I want nothing whiny
| >sounding in this story at all.
|
| Isn't there something between cold blooded rage and whiny?
That would of course be the ideal, but within scope of this fantasy, the
cold-blooded rage seems essential to the whole idea of the story. For
example, I learn tonight that during the Eichmann trial, newspapers in all
the surrounding Arab countries were printing editorials expressing support
for Eichmann, even going so far as to state such things as "too bad he
didn't finish the job."
Cold-blooded rage comes out of a kind of cold logic expressing the demands
of honor, which would be to have the Jewish Fuehrer say this: "There has
never been more justification needed than that for Israel now, even now, to
invade those nations and "finish the job" by making them eat every stone
from the Dome of the Rock while we rule for a thousand years over their
heads.
This is the delicious *fantasy*, my man.
|
| Don't get me wrong, I grapple with finding that medium myself.
I feel your pain. ;-)
| >I believe they were, yes. And I thank you. Quite a pleasant surprise, I
| >must say!
| >
|
| My pleasure.
|
| >| --Bob
| >|
| >| BTW, you might want to see a movie called "The Believer" (just
| >| released on DVD). I don't know, but maybe it's the sort of character
| >| you are trying to create.
| >
| >Oh really? I'll stop at the video store tonight. I always like a good
| >video recommendation. Thanks again!
|
| I hope you do rent it. I would be curious to know what you think of
| it.
|
| I felt the movie was okay; basically about an extremely
| intelligent--genius intelligence-- Jewish Skinhead. He hates his
| identity. He hides the fact that he is jewish and is actually more
| vicious than his gentile psychopathic friends toward jews, especially
| orthodox ones.
|
| Some of it was over the top, the fact that he was so extraordinarily
| brilliant, the ending, less satisfying than American History X (where
| the character was also in the superior range of intelligence), and a
| little bait-and-switch with the agenda, instead of grim and REAL
| portrait of the tenacity of such hatred, like it could have been if
| the director had been able to control himself and make up his mind as
| to what he was trying to achieve. Like Taxi Driver was.
I'm not surprised you should mention that masterpiece in the context.
| ***
| "Upward toward the sun we go."
| "Careful plants, be careful plants".
| ---The Residents
--
JPDavid http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/520b8/
John's Joint:: http://jpdavid.freewebspace.com/
"It takes a long evolutionary process to arrive at objectivity, that is, to
acquire the faculty to see the world, nature, and other persons and oneself
as they are, and not distorted by desires and fears. The more man develops
this objectivity, the more he is in touch with reality, the more he matures,
the better can he be to create a human world in which he is at home." --
Erich Fromm in *The Sane Society*
"And it don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing." -- Irving
Mills, Duke Ellington.
R. Westermeyer
<JP...@VirtualTourist.com> wrote:
>
>"R. Westermeyer" <wst...@cts.com> wrote in message
>news:b8g4evckp3r84j15c...@4ax.com...
>| >They are the bourgeoisie. Is that what you're looking for?
>|
>| Okay. LIke the theater-full I sat amongst with my son, Tim, this
>| morning watching "Finding Nemo". It was revolting how the movie was
>| aimed solely at this very fortunate white upper middle class and their
>| very fortunate number-one agenda of making sure their little treasure
>| on a pedestal gets just the right amount of leash to explore outside
>| the tract neighborhood.
>
>|
>| Disney really gets on my nerves these days.
>
>Why stop at Disney? What you describe holds all across the board. Did you
>click on the interview with Bean on "The Believer" DVD? After he'd finished
>production (on an extreme low budget) and the film was totally in the can,
>it took fully a year to get a distribution deal, and as we see, it was
>totally not with the majors. It got a premiere on Showtime, but so far as
>getting to the neighborhood theatre? Has it? How did I hear about it?
>Word of mouth--from *you*; given time, I might have noticed it at the video
>store, but then again, maybe not.
I didn't see the interview, but I'll check it out.
I don't think it even played here in San Diego. If it did, it was in
Hillcrest, the hip part of town, thirty miles from where we live.
I saw "The Believer" at Tower Video on Sunset a couple weeks ago and
bought it. I thought, when the fuck did this come out?
Here's one you might consider renting or buying sometime: "Max". Came
out on May 20th on video. I watched it last night. Wow!
With John Cusack as Max Rothman, a German Jewish art dealer on the
cutting edge, representing some big name Dadaists and cubists; Noah
Taylor (the adolescent in "Shine") as a young Adolf Hitler (who looks
amazingly like Nick Cave).
LIke The believer, it's a movie about an intelligent angry, tormented
man, back from WWI. Unlike Rothman, who returns from the war minus an
arm, but to wealth and warmth and family, Hitler returns with both
arms, but to nothing. A wretched creature shuffling around with
portfolio in his grip.
Unlike our confused protag in "The Believer", there is no one to
rescue him, or set him straight. The kind and determined Rothman tries
by attempting to channel Hitler's rage into his art...well, I won't
spoil it.
Excellent film.
It was met with a lot of bullshit from some circles claiming that the
movie "never should have been made". That to portray HItler as
anything but a pure black monster is wrong for the people.
Dangerous art.
Some things never change.
--R
Seymour Grass
I'll be looking for it and not just because it's got Cusack in it, or
because it sounds like one of those delicious period pieces like *Swing
Kinds* . . .
|
| It was met with a lot of bullshit from some circles claiming that the
| movie "never should have been made". That to portray HItler as
| anything but a pure black monster is wrong for the people.
Wrong. Nothing can be more right than to expose what Arendt recognized as
the "banality of evil". The mindset that would censor the humanity of
Hitler is itself the evil, the very lie that gives rise to the next form of
Hitler, not only as it generates a mystique that can't arise in reality but
as it blinds the public eye to what in all banality does arise, or has
already arisen.
"The shortsighted squeal, they always squeal except when they are being
Quadpus
>
> Wrong. Nothing can be more right than to expose what Arendt recognized as
> the "banality of evil". The mindset that would censor the humanity of
> Hitler is itself the evil, the very lie that gives rise to the next form of
> Hitler, not only as it generates a mystique that can't arise in reality but
> as it blinds the public eye to what in all banality does arise, or has
> already arisen.
There's an interesting article that discusses Hitler, Arendt, and "the
banality of evil" in, strangely enough, this month's issue of Believer
Magazine.