Tycho & Winter
CODE RED
married? If so, which comic or novel was it in?
Thanks for your help.
(MindB)ender
Kristy
"CODE RED" <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone. Just wondering, did Tycho and Winter ever actually get
> married? If so, which comic or novel was it in?
Not written down anywhere, though Union implies that it's happened.
:::massive sigh::: Yet another scene on the List of Scenes we Really
Want Mike to Do. What is it now, 3720? Man. If I didn't like the
guy's writing so much, I'd wish unemployment on him just to get him to
churn these things out in the spare time he'd than have.
--Prophet Kristy
is that so wrong?
--Antilles/Celchu '00--
www.rebelpilots.com/afw
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nick Coghlan
>
> Hey everyone. Just wondering, did Tycho and Winter ever actually get
> married? If so, which comic or novel was it in?
>
AFAIK, it isn't documented - however, IIRC, Union makes reference to the
fact that they're married.
Cheers,
Nick.
--
======================================================
Nick Coghlan Brisbane, Australia
Email: ncog...@email.com Mobile: 0409 573 268
Computer Systems Engineering / Cognitive Science
University of Queensland, Year V
"It is better to deserve honours and not have them
than to have them and not deserve them" -Mark Twain-
======================================================
AdamJGfan
>In article <3910...@news.alphalink.com.au>,
> "CODE RED" <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey everyone. Just wondering, did Tycho and Winter ever actually get
>> married? If so, which comic or novel was it in?
>
>Not written down anywhere, though Union implies that it's happened.
>
>:::massive sigh::: Yet another scene on the List of Scenes we Really
>Want Mike to Do. What is it now, 3720? Man. If I didn't like the
>guy's writing so much, I'd wish unemployment on him just to get him to
>churn these things out in the spare time he'd than have.
>
Dang...a list that short? ::bg::
>--Prophet Kristy
>is that so wrong?
>
for Jedi it is...::bg::
>--Antilles/Celchu '00--
>www.rebelpilots.com/afw
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
>
Adam
couldn't help it...
Emily
> *never thought these two fitted eachother*
Hello everyone! Miss me? Anyway....
What do you mean you never thought they fitted each other? They're
perfect!
Or, let me put it this way, Winter and Ackbar? *shudder*
> CODE RED wrote:
>
> > Hey everyone. Just wondering, did Tycho and Winter ever actually get
> > married? If so, which comic or novel was it in?
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
------+
///
Emily Janson>
\\\
------+
http://yubyubcommander.homestead.com
"For a big bad X-wing warrior, you're sure rotten at saying
no." -Wes Janson, Specter of the Past
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year."
-Wish You Were Here, Pink Floyd
Thoresdales
>
Picture the kids... a Red Lobster platter gone bad... very bad...
Morwen
Hi there,
It was Tue, 9 May 2000... (MindB)ender spoke words of wisdom:
> Emily wrote:
>
> > Or, let me put it this way, Winter and Ackbar? *shudder*
>
> but that's just plain sick:P
Heh. Join the club. If I'm not sadly mistaken, this was a notion
appearing in Those Books That I Stopped Reading Halfway Into the First
One (and maybe will pick up again on a day that I'm feeling particularly
careless).
(BTW, relevant quote: "To me, [Tycho] is a living, breathing piece of
Alderaan." Winter)
Peace,
**** All we need is love.
**** Antilles/Celchu'00
--
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Morwen
"All You Need Is Love"
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(MindB)ender
(MindB)ender
> (BTW, relevant quote: "To me, [Tycho] is a living, breathing piece of
> Alderaan." Winter)
yes... but i think that that is a very bad basis for a relationship
Policrat'
mindb...@hotmail.com wrote on 9/5/00 10:19 am:
yes... but it's way better than KJA's "Hmm... Winter and Ackbar are
second-string characters who hang around the Imperial Palace a lot... one of
them's a squid, the other one's ash-blonde... and for good measure, I'll
send the blonde to live on an asteroid all alone with Anakin Solo to protect
him from the Empire that I've already said is destroyed in my blatant
disregard for the continuity."
Personally, I always thought Luke and Winter were made for each other, but
what the hey....
[gets out patent Aristophinaic person-fitter]
Pol'
Unofficial RASSM Scotsman (Retd.)
(MindB)ender
> Personally, I always thought Luke and Winter were made for each other, but
> what the hey....
hehe - better:)
Morwen
It was Tue, 9 May 2000... (MindB)ender spoke words of wisdom:
> Morwen wrote:
>
> > (BTW, relevant quote: "To me, [Tycho] is a living, breathing piece of
> > Alderaan." Winter)
>
> yes... but i think that that is a very bad basis for a relationship
True--if it's everything that there is. But it makes a good starting
point, especially if there aren't many such pieces around... And after
that starting point...
(Don't want to repeat everything, going to do a Deja search here, gimme a
minute)
"...a lion needs a lioness, a male leopard deserves a female leopard,
not a housecat even if she is Siamese. Balance is important in any
relationship; if one side is significantly stronger than the other, s/he
will either get to lose respect for her/his partner (a sure sign of
unhappy relationship to come) or make herself/himself less in order not to
make her/his partner less. Iella is strong enough to match Wedge -
remember what she had to do with her first husband, yet still survived? "
(from my post Subject: Why no to Qwi?, dated 2 March 2000)
I think you can do the search and replace yourselves... :-)
Peace,
**** Perfect First and Second Ladies...
(MindB)ender
> It was Tue, 9 May 2000... (MindB)ender spoke words of wisdom:
>
> > Morwen wrote:
> >
> > > (BTW, relevant quote: "To me, [Tycho] is a living, breathing piece of
> > > Alderaan." Winter)
> >
> > yes... but i think that that is a very bad basis for a relationship
>
> True--if it's everything that there is. But it makes a good starting
> point, especially if there aren't many such pieces around... And after
> that starting point...
>
> (Don't want to repeat everything, going to do a Deja search here, gimme a
> minute)
>
> "...a lion needs a lioness, a male leopard deserves a female leopard,
> not a housecat even if she is Siamese. Balance is important in any
> relationship; if one side is significantly stronger than the other, s/he
> will either get to lose respect for her/his partner (a sure sign of
> unhappy relationship to come) or make herself/himself less in order not to
> make her/his partner less. Iella is strong enough to match Wedge -
> remember what she had to do with her first husband, yet still survived? "
>
> (from my post Subject: Why no to Qwi?, dated 2 March 2000)
>
> I think you can do the search and replace yourselves... :-)
outside the sick ackbar thing: all involved are humans, not different species
like leopards and housecats. it's like having to marry one that also survived
the bombing on your city, just because (s)he is from that city.
Emily
> > > Or, let me put it this way, Winter and Ackbar? *shudder*
> >
> > but that's just plain sick:P
>
> Picture the kids... a Red Lobster platter gone bad... very bad...
ROTFLMAO!!!
This can't be a good thing.
<Homer voice> Mmmmm..... Lobster..... </Hv>
Emily
> Morwen wrote:
>
> > (BTW, relevant quote: "To me, [Tycho] is a living, breathing piece of
> > Alderaan." Winter)
>
> yes... but i think that that is a very bad basis for a relationship
*biting back comment and trying to be good*
Emily
> "...a lion needs a lioness, a male leopard deserves a female leopard,
> not a housecat even if she is Siamese.
So what's that say to relationships like Nawara and Ryhsati? (It _is_ Ryhsati,
right? I'm getting rusty.)
> Balance is important in any relationship; if one side is significantly
> stronger than the other, s/he
> will either get to lose respect for her/his partner (a sure sign of
> unhappy relationship to come) or make herself/himself less in order not to
> make her/his partner less. Iella is strong enough to match Wedge -
> remember what she had to do with her first husband, yet still survived? "
>
> (from my post Subject: Why no to Qwi?, dated 2 March 2000)
>
> I think you can do the search and replace yourselves... :-)
>
> Peace,
>
> **** Perfect First and Second Ladies...
> **** Antilles/Celchu'00
>
> --
> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
> Morwen
> "All You Need Is Love"
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> GE/MU/S/L d--(+) s: a22 C++ US+ P L+>++ E---- W++>$ N++ K? w>-- !O M- V?
> PS+ PE(-) Y+ !PGP t- !5 !X R+ tv-- b+++ DI++ D-- G e++$>+++ h* x?
> -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
------+
Morwen
Hi there,
It was Tue, 9 May 2000... Emily spoke words of wisdom:
> [===}:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
>
> > "...a lion needs a lioness, a male leopard deserves a female leopard,
> > not a housecat even if she is Siamese.
>
> So what's that say to relationships like Nawara and Ryhsati? (It _is_
> Ryhsati, right? I'm getting rusty.)
<sighs and hangs head> Teaches me not to use metaphors ever again.
Forget about your high school EngLit classes, Morwen, and write plainly.
I meant that
> > Balance is important in any relationship;
and
> > Iella [Winter, Rhysati, Asyr] is strong enough to match Wedge [Tycho,
> > Nawara, Gavin]-
Race, or rather species, is just the metaphor there. Note that I did not
say "a finch needs a finch". There was a reason for dangerous predators
being used as examples.
That said, I do admit using species-metaphors in an argument pertaining
to sometimes inter-species matches was a bad writing practice. Sowwy.
> > (from my post Subject: Why no to Qwi?, dated 2 March 2000)
And the funnier thing is, someone else had replied the same way to this,
and I'd made the same explanation... Oh well :-).
Peace,
**** Repeat after me--
Camille
(MindB)ender wrote in message <3917FE86...@hotmail.com>...
Eek, wouldn't that be almost like he was dating his sister? Not
biologically, but still close enough to be kinda icky..
- Camille
(MindB)ender
> And the funnier thing is, someone else had replied the same way to this,
> and I'd made the same explanation... Oh well :-).
wehich implies more about your writing then about your readers;)
Kristy
Morwen <di...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
::snippity::
> (from my post Subject: Why no to Qwi?, dated 2 March 2000)
....Hey, that was my birthday....
::grin::
Oh, to remain on-topic, I love these two together. If I can't have
Tycho, it should be a buff chick like Winter.
--Prophet Kristy
and I'll just be jealous.
(MindB)ender
> The important point is balance of _power_, not sameness of species.
that is what i missed - i thought it was an example, not a methaphor. taken as an
example it is about species (esp. with ackbar...). so i was wrong:)
Nick Coghlan
IYAM, it's a very good metaphor - a lion needs a lioness, tigress,
leopardess(?) or what have you. Lion with house cat just won't work -
either the lion has to start acting like a house cat, or the lion will
get tired of the house cat's inability to keep pace.
The important point is balance of _power_, not sameness of species.
The second interpretation is pretty superficial (even when it isn't
specifically excluded as a valid interpretation).
Morwen
Hi there,
It was Wed, 10 May 2000... Kristy spoke words of wisdom:
> Morwen <di...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
> ::snippity::
> > (from my post Subject: Why no to Qwi?, dated 2 March 2000)
> ....Hey, that was my birthday....
> > ::grin::
Oh, now I'm really proud. For, albeit unintentionally, I seem to have
honored the birthday of my Prophetess in a good way. <preening aura>
> Oh, to remain on-topic, I love these two together. If I can't have
> Tycho, it should be a buff chick like Winter.
Um.... I won't argue about your reasoning there :-). But why remain
on-topic? Was there an on-topicness Nazi around? <peers around> Wind to
the wings of your imagination, m'Lady, take whatever is being talked about
and go off on wild tangents. As if we don't do that all the time <grin>.
(*lightbulb coming on* Hey, I like that...).
Peace,
**** Wind to the wings of your imagination...
Kristy
Morwen <di...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
> It was Wed, 10 May 2000... Kristy spoke words of wisdom:
> > Morwen <di...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
> > ::snippity::
> > > (from my post Subject: Why no to Qwi?, dated 2 March 2000)
> > ....Hey, that was my birthday....
> > > ::grin::
> Oh, now I'm really proud. For, albeit unintentionally, I seem to
have
> honored the birthday of my Prophetess in a good way. <preening aura>
:-D You didn't know you were that good, eh?
> > Oh, to remain on-topic, I love these two together. If I can't have
> > Tycho, it should be a buff chick like Winter.
> Um.... I won't argue about your reasoning there :-).
::grin:: I'll fight ya for him. ::rolling up sleeves:: Stop
complaining about your AC and come over here where it bloody *snowed*
last night. I *told* Melanie not to sing Christmas songs!!
> But why remain
> on-topic? Was there an on-topicness Nazi around? <peers around>
Oh. Right, Fish isn't around anymore to complain about it, huh?
Well, then, my children, let's partay!!
> **** Wind to the wings of your imagination...
Hey, I like that too. And here I thought you might be lifting something
from Misty Lacky, but no. I stand in awe of your eloquence!
--Prophet Kristy
I hate packing. grrr.
Oh, BTW, the Prophetess is about to go home for the summer.
Intermittent Internet access, not to mention the mess Deja is in while
they move servers. Don't have too much fun without me here every day!
Ysanne Isard
>
> It was Tue, 9 May 2000... (MindB)ender spoke words of wisdom:
> > Morwen wrote:
> >
> > (BTW, relevant quote: "To me, [Tycho] is a living, breathing piece of
> > Alderaan." Winter)
And that after Tycho explained to her that "It's not a
we're-both-survivors-of-Alderaan-thing, at least not for me [him]". But
for her, it's obviously that.
Tycho deserves better.
Ysa
Nick Coghlan
Sigh...
Something like that can _get_ a person interested. It will not _keep_
them interested for very long. The reasons people (real, as well as
imaginiary) get together and the reasons they stay together aren't
necessarily the same :>
Cheers,
Nick.
>
> Ysa
(MindB)ender
> Something like that can _get_ a person interested. It will not _keep_
> them interested for very long. The reasons people (real, as well as
> imaginiary) get together and the reasons they stay together aren't
> necessarily the same :>
you neglect the trauma sustained by any alderaan survivours (except obviously by
liea, but she's a cold hardened b...).
1 question: with winter, leia and tycho coming from alderaan - how can the
rebellion claim that the planet was "peaceful", "unarmed" etc.? All these people
are serious geurilla's...
Kelly Grosskreutz
Keep in mind that those three represent a minority. The planet and most
of its populace was peaceful and unarmed. A few, like Tycho, did attend
the Imperial Academy, but the people would've been shocked and outraged
had they found out what people like Leia and Winter were up to. I
repreat, they were a minority.
Kelly
Antilles/Celchu '00
http://www.idea-inc.com/~kelly/horn.html
"Now I see a light
It's shining from above
I think they've finally come
the Halcyon Days."
"The Halcyon Days" by The Tea Party, off Triptych
Emily
> Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> > Something like that can _get_ a person interested. It will not _keep_
> > them interested for very long. The reasons people (real, as well as
> > imaginiary) get together and the reasons they stay together aren't
> > necessarily the same :>
>
> you neglect the trauma sustained by any alderaan survivours (except obviously by
> liea, but she's a cold hardened b...).
>
> 1 question: with winter, leia and tycho coming from alderaan - how can the
> rebellion claim that the planet was "peaceful", "unarmed" etc.? All these people
> are serious geurilla's...
IIRC, the planet itself had strict weapons laws. You weren't allowed to carry them
in public or whatever.
It depends on the person, I guess. Didn't Tycho say something about how, um, his
ex-fiancee (not daring to try and spell that one) might not have seen him as the
same person after fighting in the war? Does that help the point at all?
Jada Starr
about their relationship and what they meant to each other come from? (Can't
think of the exact wording, but Winter's about how Tycho was, to her, a
"living, breathing piece of Alderaan" and Tycho saying that that's not what it
means to him...) I don't seem to remember them.
~Jada
Hobbie: Boss, please tell me you're not putting us in women's clothing.
Wedge: Very well. I'm not putting us in women's clothing.
You Say You Want A Revolution...
Antilles/Celchu '00
Kelly Grosskreutz
> (MindB)ender wrote:
>
> > Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >
> > > Something like that can _get_ a person interested. It will not _keep_
> > > them interested for very long. The reasons people (real, as well as
> > > imaginiary) get together and the reasons they stay together aren't
> > > necessarily the same :>
> >
> > you neglect the trauma sustained by any alderaan survivours (except obviously by
> > liea, but she's a cold hardened b...).
> >
> > 1 question: with winter, leia and tycho coming from alderaan - how can the
> > rebellion claim that the planet was "peaceful", "unarmed" etc.? All these people
> > are serious geurilla's...
>
> IIRC, the planet itself had strict weapons laws. You weren't allowed to carry them
> in public or whatever.
>
> It depends on the person, I guess. Didn't Tycho say something about how, um, his
> ex-fiancee (not daring to try and spell that one) might not have seen him as the
> same person after fighting in the war? Does that help the point at all?
Yeah, but that wasn't just because he was willing to use a weapon.
Nyiestra (willing to try it) knew he was going to the Imperial Academy and
would have to serve for a little bit. In that duration, he would learn
how to and possibly be called upon to actually use weapons. I'm sure, in
his letters/calls home, he mentioned being trained to be a TIE fighter
pilot, whose missions would involve shooting at others.
From what I understand, he was just planning to do a short stint at the
Academy, do the shortest term of service required, then go back to
Alderaan, marry Nyiestra, and start a family. What she wasn't expecting,
and what he wasn't sure she'd understand, is his decision to involve
himself heart and soul in a war. By doing this, he would willingly go out
and kill many others. As an Imperial, I think they were aware that he may
get called to fight, but they all hoped he wouldn't actually have to
(kinda like how some Imp officers hoped that they'd never be the one
ordered to go raze a planet with their ship). By joining the Rebels,
there would be no maybe about it. He would be killing others and
frequently. She was so pacifistic at heart that he didn't think she
would've liked the life he'd been forced to lead as a Rebel.
> "We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year."
> -Wish You Were Here, Pink Floyd
I'm listening to the Wall right now. 8)
Kelly
21 days until Ruin!
Morwen
Hi there,
It was 16 May 2000... Jada Starr spoke words of wisdom:
> Out of curiosity, where did these quotes regarding Tycho and
> Winter talking about their relationship and what they meant to
> each other come from? (Can't think of the exact wording, but
> Winter's about how Tycho was, to her, a "living, breathing piece
> of Alderaan"
One of the comics... <wrecks very fuzzy brain> might be Mandatory
Retirement.
I should get the rest of Rebel Opposition; that's where Rogues
meet Winter and I think that's where she first catches Tycho's eye.
Practically, her first words to him are "[I'm] holding a blaster on
you and asking the questions. And if I don't like the answers, I'll
start shooting."
Always the sign of a love to be written in the stars <grin>.
Then Tycho's attempts of flirting her and her dodging him expertly
makes for a nice sideline at Battleground: Tatooine. Along with a
number of really good lines. "Just attend the business, flyboy, and
I may let you kiss me good night." "I think you've got her
interested, Tycho, she just doesn't know her yet." "I can think of
far lovelier bodies to drape in silk than that of a Twi'lek
portmaster / You should not be thinking of bodies at all. Think of
corrupt officials and heatstorms instead." "Nice...stunner." When
Winter finally finds out she can't dodge, Wedge gets the full brunt
of her emotional storm first. That must have been some
slap. <giggle>
Got carried away, but I'm just happily reminiscing now. Sorry.
Mike, did I thank you recently for such wonderful moments?
> and Tycho saying that that's not what it means to
> him...) I don't seem to remember them.
Tycho never says anything like that, actually. It was us
extrapolating from there--that's a way for a relationship to start,
but it's not the only factor in it continuing...
**** Perfect balance.
(MindB)ender
> Keep in mind that those three represent a minority. The planet and most
> of its populace was peaceful and unarmed. A few, like Tycho, did attend
> the Imperial Academy, but the people would've been shocked and outraged
> had they found out what people like Leia and Winter were up to. I
> repreat, they were a minority.
according to the ANH RD alderaan had just started on re-arming itself, leia was
working for the gouvernment of alderaan, by order of that gouvernment. (guess that
goes for winter the too?). That same gouvernment had an armed corvette with armed
soldiers onboard.... engaging in guerrilla activities. I really doubt Alderaan was as
peacefull as Leia wanted Tarkin to believe - she was trying to safe a planet, you're
allowed to lie in those cases.
Morwen
Hi there,
It was Tue, 16 May 2000... (MindB)ender spoke words of wisdom:
> Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> > Something like that can _get_ a person interested. It will not _keep_
> > them interested for very long. The reasons people (real, as well as
> > imaginiary) get together and the reasons they stay together aren't
> > necessarily the same :>
>
> you neglect the trauma sustained by any alderaan survivours
> (except obviously by liea, but she's a cold hardened b...).
If anything, Tycho and Winter are also among the least affected
by the loss-trauma, I think. After the initial shock, of course. And
that's precisely because...
> 1 question: with winter, leia and tycho coming from alderaan -
> how can the rebellion claim that the planet was "peaceful",
> "unarmed" etc.? All these people are serious geurilla's...
...they fought back.
You're talking about, what, three people out of a whole planet's
population? Put in the other Rebels--say there were a few thousand
in the Rebellion, and a similar number in the Imperial Army, to
begin with (though I have very serious doubts about those remaining
there after you-know-what). Still an insignificant number,
contrasted with a whole population.
Having a pacific political and belief system is one thing.
Enforcing _every_ citizen to think the same is another. I do not
doubt that Alderaanians were civilized enough not to commit that
error.
But this brings up points I had been thinking about for a while
now. Tycho has been bothering me for a while, as you know; and
trying to portray him as a character brought about more layers than
I had initially suspected...
WARNING--from this point on is another one of my attempts about
wrapping my mind around something too big and fuzzy to grasp
fully. May make sense only partially, or not at all, and has only
the slightest claim to "organization."
In one thing I agree with MindBender--it must have been difficult
for the folks who decided to pick up arms to defend themselves. In
Zahn's original trilogy, Leia makes a comment, at one point, why the
Mon Calamarians take the war so seriously--it appears that they were
also an inherently peaceful race before the Empire crossed their
limit of tolerance. She also mentions others--paraphrasing, "It's
never easy to decide to fight force with force when your beliefs
have been otherwise. Believe me, people like Bail Organa and Mon
Mothma had tried everything."--and she comments that the Calamarians
might still be carrying traces of guilt.
Tycho, on the other hand, is a different case. He started out by
joining the Imperial Navy. I imagine his first motivations were much
like Luke's, to begin with--to go to the Academy, to get out of
"there", to fly. Still, it must have been an interesting childhood.
We are all shaped, one way or the other, by social pressures, beyond
the effect of the immediate family. I get the feeling that the
social pressure in Alderaan would have been "turn the other
cheek"-ward. Maybe Tycho's family was more open to the idea of
meeting violence with violence, letting him go like that and not
breaking their ties with him afterwards. Maybe not, but like Kelly
suggested elsewhere in this thread, they kinda "hoped" he wouldn't
be called on for much bloodshed.
OTOH, his line in _Blood and Honor_, "Some of us still bear arms
proudly" tinges the whole thing differently--as does _Another
Chance_-- something like "we _can_ defend ourselves if we want to,
but we've chosen not to, because violence is wrong."
There might also be the circumstantial motives--think of what made
Fel into a soldier, and how he might have happily lived the rest of
his life is a farmer instead if the events mostly outside his
control had not occurred that way. Did something happen to Tycho
that he sought out the life of a soldier? We get no hint of that,
and as late as after graduating from the Academy, he still plans
returning to Alderaan eventually to settle with his old fiancee
(who, we are told, probably would not think the Tycho of post-RoTJ
as a good match for herself. Another point to consider.). So there
probably has not been something drastic, changing his whole
circumstances; but it still makes a possible point of speculation.
Then there's the matter of personality traits for Our Alderaanian
Ace. The more I think about Tycho, especially as he's portrayed in
the comics, the more I get the feeling that if he had had Jedi
powers, he'd be open to the Dark Side quite a bit. He gets angry--
and acts in anger. He is quite rigid in his beliefs and sometimes
not very tolerant--at a few points, I found myself going "whew, good
thing he's on the right side." He seems to notice that at one point
in _Requiem for a Rogue_; "How thin the line that separates us from
such overwhelming evil." The dream he has there--being a loyal
soldier to the Empire and revealing the Organas' ties to the
Alliance with disgust--is brought on by the Sith influence,
true--yet from time to time I get the feeling that if he had not
been "jolted" so roughly awake, he _might_ have become that.
(If Mike somehow sifted through all the disorganized ramble before
this, his opinions on this point might be interesting, since Tycho
is as much his character as Corran is).
He sometimes displays a single-mindedness that might be admirable
in a soldier, _but_. See, for instance, how he snaps at the little
Myrssi(?) that enters Wes' hospital room seeking confirmation about
the Death Stars and what they did.
But later, the same man is also treated like dirt, booed as a
traitor, offered as a sacrifice and tried as bait in front of the
whole Galaxy--and he isn't even bitter afterwards. He actually seems
to have undergone a major character overhaul in the hands of Ysanne
Isard--just not the way she intended to.
(Irony--Tarkin inadvertently made him a rebel and Isard made him,
at least as far as I see it, a better, still stronger man. With
enemies like that, who needs friends? <grin>)
Another side of him that jumps to meet the eye--curtaining Wedge
from Tal'dira's shot, going into fire zones in unarmed shuttles to
pick up EV pilots, flying down the throat of Death Star--is the
"hero" side, hinting to an underlying nobility of spirit, and the
classic Rogue courage, but maybe not necessarily unique in the
company he's in ;-).
On second thought, that "blocking the proton torpedoe shot meant
for Wedge" and his love for Winter reveal a deep sense of commitment
in the man. Others thought of other ways to protect Wedge in that
situation; his instictive move was to cover him with his own ship,
presenting himself as a target.
Overall--I don't know, did I mention my thoughts are fuzzy
yet? But we can at least say a good man, I think.
Did I make any sense?
***** Common sense.
***** Antilles/Celchu'00
(slogan also applying to ***** Whistler/Gate'04
***** Stackpole/Allston '08
but NOT ***** Janson for NY Senate :-) )
Ysanne Isard
> > Winter talking about their relationship and what they meant to
> > each other come from? (Can't think of the exact wording, but
> > Winter's about how Tycho was, to her, a "living, breathing piece
> > of Alderaan"
>
> One of the comics... <wrecks very fuzzy brain> might be Mandatory
> Retirement.
Exactly, she says it to Kapp in MR #2 or 3, during some mission at
night.
> > and Tycho saying that that's not what it means to
> > him...) I don't seem to remember them.
>
> Tycho never says anything like that, actually. It was us
> extrapolating from there--that's a way for a relationship to start,
> but it's not the only factor in it continuing...
It's in Masquerade #1, where Tycho tells Winter that it's not (or "more
than") a "we're both survivors of Alderaan thing". I think he wants to
say that he loves her, not what she reminds him of.
Ysa
darth_...@my-deja.com
wanna help the sith come to power? i am more powerful than the emperor
was.
DBG.
unbelivably sexy sith.
Policrat'
at di...@wam.umd.edu wrote on 17/5/00 5:03 am:
>
> Hi there,
>
> It was Tue, 16 May 2000... (MindB)ender spoke words of wisdom:
>
>> Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>
>>> Something like that can _get_ a person interested. It will not _keep_
>>> them interested for very long. The reasons people (real, as well as
>>> imaginiary) get together and the reasons they stay together aren't
>>> necessarily the same :>
>>
>> you neglect the trauma sustained by any alderaan survivours
>> (except obviously by liea, but she's a cold hardened b...).
>
> If anything, Tycho and Winter are also among the least affected
> by the loss-trauma, I think. After the initial shock, of course. And
> that's precisely because...
>
>> 1 question: with winter, leia and tycho coming from alderaan -
>> how can the rebellion claim that the planet was "peaceful",
>> "unarmed" etc.? All these people are serious geurilla's...
>
> ...they fought back.
>
> You're talking about, what, three people out of a whole planet's
> population? Put in the other Rebels--say there were a few thousand
> in the Rebellion, and a similar number in the Imperial Army, to
> begin with (though I have very serious doubts about those remaining
> there after you-know-what). Still an insignificant number,
> contrasted with a whole population.
Just a (non Tycho-related thought to drop in here). In VotF, Leia says to
Pellaeon that her father pointed him out to her at a parade once as 'one of
their most promising young officers' or something. Did anyone else wonder if
TZ was trying to imply here that Pellaeon was an Alderaanian?
Pol'
AFW Scotsman-in-Residence
Jada Starr
> One of the comics... <wrecks very fuzzy brain> might be Mandatory
>Retirement.
Ahha, that explains it. One of the ones I haven't been able to find yet. *makes
face* (Still need... Rebel Opposition, Masquerade, and Mandatory Retirement...
that just gave me more incentive to look harder. ;o)
>Then Tycho's attempts of flirting her and her dodging him expertly
>makes for a nice sideline at Battleground: Tatooine.
I loved that! *grins*
>Mike, did I thank you recently for such wonderful moments?
I'll second that...
Kristy L. Henscheid
things in words so well? :-)
Morwen wrote:
::snippy::
> Tycho, on the other hand, is a different case. He started out by
> joining the Imperial Navy. I imagine his first motivations were much
> like Luke's, to begin with--to go to the Academy, to get out of
> "there", to fly.
I suspect this is the major reason Tych went to the Academy. Not for
the military side of it, but because it was a good place to learn flying
with "the best." The Rand Ecliptic was a civilian ship, wasn't it?
Indicating that people (like Biggs) could go to the Academy and not have
to become TIE pilots.
> There might also be the circumstantial motives--think of what made
> Fel into a soldier, and how he might have happily lived the rest of
> his life is a farmer instead if the events mostly outside his
> control had not occurred that way. Did something happen to Tycho
> that he sought out the life of a soldier? We get no hint of that,
> and as late as after graduating from the Academy, he still plans
> returning to Alderaan eventually to settle with his old fiancee
> (who, we are told, probably would not think the Tycho of post-RoTJ
> as a good match for herself. Another point to consider.). So there
> probably has not been something drastic, changing his whole
> circumstances; but it still makes a possible point of speculation.
I think he was probably still arguably pacifistic until the Empire
hitting Alderaan gave him the whole paradigm shift. At that point he
may not have said, "Well, all is lost, I must use violence." He may
have been drifting for a bit to find himself, and the best way to combat
the Empire. I see a lot of Alderaanians in the Rebellion this way--the
Empire is the only thing that drove them to "violence".
Definitely he changed from the person he once was. Winter wouldn't have
been the woman for him then, and Nyiestra isn't the woman for him now.
> Then there's the matter of personality traits for Our Alderaanian
> Ace. The more I think about Tycho, especially as he's portrayed in
> the comics, the more I get the feeling that if he had had Jedi
> powers, he'd be open to the Dark Side quite a bit.
Amazing, really, that more people don't go over. I point to the end of
TPM--I swear OB1 goes to the Dark Side for the first part of that rage
against Maul, probably the reason he gets Force-pushed off the
edge--Maul was *much* better at utilizing the Dark Side. Once Obi's
hanging by his fingertips, he looks up at his supposed doom and thinks
"okay, I promise never to use the Dark Side again!" and Maul can't
fathom what's going through his mind anymore.
Well, that was totally off.
> He seems to notice that at one point
> in _Requiem for a Rogue_; "How thin the line that separates us from
> such overwhelming evil." The dream he has there--being a loyal
> soldier to the Empire and revealing the Organas' ties to the
> Alliance with disgust--is brought on by the Sith influence,
> true--yet from time to time I get the feeling that if he had not
> been "jolted" so roughly awake, he _might_ have become that.
Yup.
And a moment of silence for the atrocity of the art in that issue. That
could have been a truly drool-worthy scene....;-) Sigh.
> (If Mike somehow sifted through all the disorganized ramble before
> this, his opinions on this point might be interesting, since Tycho
> is as much his character as Corran is).
Maybe I'll ask this weekend!
I was reading the article about Mike in the SWInsider, and thinking,
"I'm taking him out to lunch this weekend!" I am way too excited about
this con. ;-)
> But later, the same man is also treated like dirt, booed as a
> traitor, offered as a sacrifice and tried as bait in front of the
> whole Galaxy--and he isn't even bitter afterwards.
He's a much better man than I am.
Um. Yeah.
> (Irony--Tarkin inadvertently made him a rebel and Isard made him,
> at least as far as I see it, a better, still stronger man. With
> enemies like that, who needs friends? <grin>)
Heh!
> Overall--I don't know, did I mention my thoughts are fuzzy
> yet? But we can at least say a good man, I think.
Oyah!
Did you make sense? Absolutely. Wow.
--Prophet Kristy
don't make me think, I'm done with school!
--Antilles/Celchu '00--
www.rebelpilots.com/afw
Kristy L. Henscheid
> Just a (non Tycho-related thought to drop in here). In VotF, Leia says to
> Pellaeon that her father pointed him out to her at a parade once as 'one of
> their most promising young officers' or something. Did anyone else wonder if
> TZ was trying to imply here that Pellaeon was an Alderaanian?
Oooh. Hmm. Freaky.
I seem to recall wondering that, too, during that scene.
--Prophet Kristy
Never again. Never forget.
--Antilles/Celchu '00--
www.rebelpilots.com/afw
Petra Genske
> But this brings up points I had been thinking about for a while
> now. Tycho has been bothering me for a while, as you know; and
> trying to portray him as a character brought about more layers than
> I had initially suspected...
I thought about him a lot, too, and especially about the things he says (or
thinks) when he makes his Return to Alderaan (Bacta War, Chapter 11). I'm
still not sure about his reasons for attending the imperial academy and what
kind of life he had planned for himself and Nyiestra. I'm don't know whether
my thoughts will make any sense to you, but maybe someone can help me sort
them out a little.
> Tycho, on the other hand, is a different case. He started out by
> joining the Imperial Navy. I imagine his first motivations were much
> like Luke's, to begin with--to go to the Academy, to get out of
> "there", to fly. Still, it must have been an interesting childhood.
> We are all shaped, one way or the other, by social pressures, beyond
> the effect of the immediate family. I get the feeling that the
> social pressure in Alderaan would have been "turn the other
> cheek"-ward. Maybe Tycho's family was more open to the idea of
> meeting violence with violence, letting him go like that and not
> breaking their ties with him afterwards. Maybe not, but like Kelly
> suggested elsewhere in this thread, they kinda "hoped" he wouldn't
> be called on for much bloodshed.
I got the impression that Luke wanted to go to the academy because it was
his only chance to get of Tatooine, or to get some kind of college
education. Tatooine is a backwater world, and his uncle and aunt didn't seem
to be rich, so I guess he saw attending the academy as his only chance and
didn't really think about the consequences (and, on a different note, the
way the academy is portrayed in ANH (or the book to ANH), it doesn't seem to
be a military academy, because Biggs says something like "he doesn't want to
wait until the Empire drafts him into its service"; at a military academy
(as shown in the comics), he would already be a soldier).
Tycho, on the other hand, probably had a lot more choices. Alderaan had its
own universites (at least one), and if he had wanted to leave the planet and
get some kind of education elsewhere, I think he had been able to do this.
His father was the CEO of Alderaan's largest HoloNet provider, so I guess
his family was well off.
In Bacta War, it is said: "While he had no more love for war than any other
Alderaanian, he had chosen to go into the military to be in a position to
influence and change the military._And when it became necessary to destroy
it, I became a Rebel_." This implies (at least to me), that at the point
when he decided to go to Prefsbelt, he still believed in the Empire. Some
things he didn't like, but generally he thought that the New Order was the
right way and changeable. He obviously believed that he could make a
difference and influence some of the things he didn't like.
>
> OTOH, his line in _Blood and Honor_, "Some of us still bear arms
> proudly" tinges the whole thing differently--as does _Another
> Chance_-- something like "we _can_ defend ourselves if we want to,
> but we've chosen not to, because violence is wrong."
I got the impression from this scene that a part of his anger was directed
towards Alderaan's pacifists. I mean, he probably got teased a lot about his
origin, and most people react to this in either getting very proud of their
origin or starting to feel ashamed of it (ashamed is a bit strong, I guess,
but I can't find another word). I think Tycho didn't like to be lumped
together with the Alderaanian pacifists, maybe as a result of the prejudices
some of the other cadets had, maybe it was something he had already felt
before. And Fel's remark "You no longer belong to Alderaan, you're one of
the Emperor's men now." means IMHO something like "Don't be ashamed of where
you're from, it doesn't count any longer, you're now part of the imperial
military."
> and as late as after graduating from the Academy, he still plans
> returning to Alderaan eventually to settle with his old fiancee
> (who, we are told, probably would not think the Tycho of post-RoTJ
> as a good match for herself. Another point to consider.). So there
> probably has not been something drastic, changing his whole
> circumstances; but it still makes a possible point of speculation.
He was planning to marry and start a family after he had survived his first
year in the military (as a TIE pilot). Obviously, after this first year you
got promoted to a less dangerous position. But I think he planned to remain
in the military for some time, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to rise
to an influencial position. An with Alderaan unarmed, this means that there
was no chance of being based there. On the other hand, I don't think he was
planning to visit Nyiestra only once or twice a year as it was probably
normal for a navy officer (he says that the last time he saw Alderaan was
when he left to go to the academy, and that was at least three years before
Alderaan's destruction, so you either don't get many days off in the
imperial navy or he spent his leave elsewhere), so I'm a bit confused. One
thing to consider is that he was very young when he left home, 18 I guess,
or even younger. If he was 18, then he was two years at Prefsbelt, but in
the Han Solo trilogy it is said that Han was four years at Carida. If it was
the some period of time at Prefsbelt, he would have been 16 when he went
there (is there anything about this in the books or comics that I can't
remember?). Maybe he didn't see all the difficulties that would arise later
(don't jump at me, I didn't think a lot about the time after uni when I
started to study *g*).
The other thing is that he thinks he has changed so much during his time
with the rebellion that Nyiestra and he wouldn't fit together any longer.
She obviously accepted that he joined the military, so I don't think being a
soldier is the problem. He says that Nyiestra could have never accepted the
concept that some people were so evil that the only thing to do is to kill
them, and he does. I don't think he already thought this way when he became
a soldier. Joining the military does mean that you have to accept to kill
someone, but but it doesn't mean you see killing someone as the only way.
Starting with Alderaan's destruction, he experienced a lot of the cruelty of
the Empire, and I suppose that made him think that some people can't be
"resocialized".
> such overwhelming evil." The dream he has there--being a loyal
> soldier to the Empire and revealing the Organas' ties to the
> Alliance with disgust--is brought on by the Sith influence,
> true--yet from time to time I get the feeling that if he had not
> been "jolted" so roughly awake, he _might_ have become that.
I think you're are right, and he knows it (doesn't he say in RfaR that he
would have betrayed the Organas if he had knew about them being Rebels?).
And in Bacta War, he says that he had no doubt that the Rebels _would_
destroy a planet, he just knew it wouldn't be Alderaan.
Without Alderaan's destruction, I can see Tycho as part of the 181st under
Baron Fel, who, for example, isn't an evil person, but still loyal to the
Empire for a very long time.
> But later, the same man is also treated like dirt, booed as a
> traitor, offered as a sacrifice and tried as bait in front of the
> whole Galaxy--and he isn't even bitter afterwards. He actually seems
> to have undergone a major character overhaul in the hands of Ysanne
> Isard--just not the way she intended to.
Does someone know whether this chance in character between the comics and
the books was intentional? I mean, did Mike want to portrait Tycho so
differently in the comics from the start to underline the impact his
imprisonment and the suspicions had on him, or was it something that more or
less just happened during writing?
> On second thought, that "blocking the proton torpedoe shot meant
> for Wedge" and his love for Winter reveal a deep sense of commitment
> in the man. Others thought of other ways to protect Wedge in that
> situation; his instictive move was to cover him with his own ship,
> presenting himself as a target.
I love this scene. And the short conversation between Tycho and Wedge in the
end: "Thanks, two." "You're welcome, leader." No need for many words between
these two.
I doubt someone is still reading *g*, but if there is, I hope my ramblings
did make at least some sense.
Bye, Petra
--
Petra Genske
gen...@itt.uni-stuttgart.de
Mike Wilson
<gen...@itt.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:
>I doubt someone is still reading *g*, but if there is, I hope my ramblings
>did make at least some sense.
>
>Bye, Petra
>
>--
>Petra Genske
>gen...@itt.uni-stuttgart.de
>
>
>
Believe it or not, with (actually) most of the books unread by this
utterly fascinated fanboy, this is a deep insight into something I had
given absolutely not enough thought. I'll have to re-read the three
novels I *do* own so I cna incorporate these philosophies into the
story.
-"Blue Two Ready to Go"-
__+-- _
[__<H)]_
+--
Mike Wilson
Morwen
Hi there,
<snipped everything> Wow. Nice to find out that I'm not the only
one intrigued by one blue-eyed Alderaanian.
All that have contributed to this thread, just a note--I'm saving
all the responses. It's gotten to be enormous, so if I were to
reply, say, to Nick's latest contribution, I feel I have to split
the text up. Anyway, it's helped me--and I hoped the rest of us--to
get some more organized in my thinking about The Wingman. I might
even compile an essay-ish thingy from all your contributions;
credited, of course. Let me know in e-mail if you have a problem
with that...
Peace,
**** The dream team.
**** Antilles/Celchu'00
Michael A. Stackpole
Morwen wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> <snipped everything> Wow. Nice to find out that I'm not the only
> one intrigued by one blue-eyed Alderaanian.
>
I was seriously impressed with the analysis that went on in this
discussion. You've reminded me of a lot of stuff that got put into Tycho
and I'm pleased it all seems to fit together as well as it does. Let me
offer my take on somepoints that don't seem to fit.
1) Why the Academy for Tycho? He really did want to get into the system and
work with it to change things. He also was looking to be able to defend his
home, being one of those who believes in pacifism, but who is also a
realist. I do think he was looking at an honorable career in the military,
and was pleased his fiance and he had made peace over that point. I think
she saw him at desk jobs, and he let her think that, when he wanted to lead
by example.
2) the Blood and Honor quote: two points -- one, he was reacting to being
picked on by others, asserting that he could be as good as they are and,
two, my brother was a graduate of West Point. At that age, in a military
academy, opinions get pushed a bit further from norm. It's an effect of the
environment.
3) The comics Tycho: he is running a bit hotter than he does in the novels,
but his core philosophy is always the same: protect others, assume the
responsibilty to protect those who cannot protect themselves. This focuses
him on the empire and its minions. The AEA just offends him to his soul
because it denies what so many died for, it would make banal so much evil.
so he lashes out.
Petra asked if there was an intentional shift between comics and novels.
yes, definitely. Being in Isard's clutches is a fast route to maturity or
death.
4) Framed and not bitter: If you go back to tycho's core ethic of wanting
to protect others, and his confidence in his innocence, then he knows he's
being framed and knows who is behind it. And he also knows that they will
fail at some point, and he will be able to go after them. The stuff he was
being put through, in his mind, was not because of the NR, but because of
the Empire.
he wanted to do anything he coulddo to stop the Empire. That's why he
was willing to fly with the restrictions in the beginning,and endured
everything else. Whenever he quit, the Empire had won, and he wasn't going
to let that happen.
The crucible of the Lusankya did give him a perspective that matured
him,though he was already starting down that road. I suspect having Fel
come over and watching him, learning from him int hat regard helped.
Mike
Policrat'
> I suspect having Fel come over and watching him, learning from him in that
> regard helped.
L! Wasn't Fel his Academy instructor :)
Policrat'
AFW Scotsman in Residence
Morwen
Hi there,
It was Tue, 23 May 2000... Policrat' spoke words of wisdom:
> Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Michael A. Stackpole:
Who, him? <grin>
> > I suspect having Fel come over and watching him, learning from him in that
> > regard helped.
>
> L! Wasn't Fel his Academy instructor :)
And Squadron mate, for a time, some years and two Death Stars
later. I believe Mike is referring to this period--in the beginning
of Mandatory Retirement, we _do_ get a snippet of them interacting,
Fel instructing Tycho on some poisonous plants and then about how
his self-imposed solitude is bad for himself and for the rest of the
squadron...
(come to think of it, once a teacher, always a teacher ;-).
Seriously, Tycho had always respected Fel, and having him come over
and watching him work his own problems about the Empire's "ethic" in
his head really must have helped Tycho.)
Peace,
**** Meet the inevitable.
**** Antilles/Celchu'00
Policrat'
>
> Hi there,
>
> It was Tue, 23 May 2000... Policrat' spoke words of wisdom:
>
>> Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Michael A. Stackpole:
>
> Who, him? <grin>
L!
>>> I suspect having Fel come over and watching him, learning from him in that
>>> regard helped.
>>
>> L! Wasn't Fel his Academy instructor :)
>
> And Squadron mate, for a time, some years and two Death Stars
> later. I believe Mike is referring to this period--in the beginning
> of Mandatory Retirement, we _do_ get a snippet of them interacting,
> Fel instructing Tycho on some poisonous plants and then about how
> his self-imposed solitude is bad for himself and for the rest of the
> squadron...
That was what I was thinking of too, it simply struck me that, given that
Fel had formerly been Tycho's instructor, Stack had set up an interesting
subplot there... something I hope they'll pick up on in the planned
Fel/Thrawn novella/comic/whatever....
> (come to think of it, once a teacher, always a teacher ;-).
That was what I was hitting for :)
> Seriously, Tycho had always respected Fel, and having him come over
> and watching him work his own problems about the Empire's "ethic" in
> his head really must have helped Tycho.)
>
> Peace,
>
> **** Meet the inevitable.
> **** Antilles/Celchu'00
Pol'
AFW Scotsman-in-Residence.
Kelly Grosskreutz
(snipped lots of cool stuff)
> Petra asked if there was an intentional shift between comics and novels.
> yes, definitely. Being in Isard's clutches is a fast route to maturity or
> death.
Definitely an extreme version of survival of the fittest. In this case,
survival far transcends a physical level, but also on a mental, emotional,
and moral one. Probably why Tycho's and Corran's stays at Lusankya
fascinates many of us. At least, it does me.
>
> 4) Framed and not bitter: If you go back to tycho's core ethic of wanting
> to protect others, and his confidence in his innocence, then he knows he's
> being framed and knows who is behind it. And he also knows that they will
> fail at some point, and he will be able to go after them. The stuff he was
> being put through, in his mind, was not because of the NR, but because of
> the Empire.
> he wanted to do anything he coulddo to stop the Empire. That's why he
> was willing to fly with the restrictions in the beginning,and endured
> everything else. Whenever he quit, the Empire had won, and he wasn't going
> to let that happen.
Interesting perspective. I know you did have Tycho say this in the books,
but I always had problems seeing this. Must be that whole "certain point
of view" thing coming back to haunt me. More to think about. 8)
>
> The crucible of the Lusankya did give him a perspective that matured
> him,though he was already starting down that road. I suspect having Fel
> come over and watching him, learning from him int hat regard helped.
>
I'm not sure I get exactly what you mean. Didn't Fel do that with a lot of
his students? Or did he take a select few under his wing, like Biggs and
Tycho? I can see where any of Fel's students would come out of the
Academy more mature then when they'd entered, just based on the level of
training he gave them and some of his speeches/lectures he have the
students.
Kelly
Thirteen days until Ruin!
Emily
> Hi there,
>
> <snipped everything> Wow. Nice to find out that I'm not the only
> one intrigued by one blue-eyed Alderaanian.
A cute face doesn't hurt, either.
> All that have contributed to this thread, just a note--I'm saving
> all the responses. It's gotten to be enormous, so if I were to
> reply, say, to Nick's latest contribution, I feel I have to split
> the text up. Anyway, it's helped me--and I hoped the rest of us--to
> get some more organized in my thinking about The Wingman. I might
> even compile an essay-ish thingy from all your contributions;
> credited, of course. Let me know in e-mail if you have a problem
> with that...
>
> Peace,
>
> **** The dream team.
> **** Antilles/Celchu'00
>
> --
> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
> Morwen
> "All You Need Is Love"
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> GE/MU/S/L d--(+) s: a22 C++ US+ P L+>++ E---- W++>$ N++ K? w>-- !O M- V?
> PS+ PE(-) Y+ !PGP t- !5 !X R+ tv-- b+++ DI++ D-- G e++$>+++ h* x?
> -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
------+
///
Emily Janson>
\\\
------+
http://yubyubcommander.homestead.com
"For a big bad X-wing warrior, you're sure rotten at saying
no." -Wes Janson, Specter of the Past