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how exactly did Elrond remove the splinter
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Chris Hoelscher
Apr 22, 2012, 11:01:23 PM4/22/12
to
Gandalf remarks to Frodo (many meetings) that Elrond removed the splinter of
the mogul-knife - it was buired deeply and was moving inward ....
Any indication how? Was this traditional surgery ? Or something elvish - I
would imagine that locating the peice might have been elvish - but did the
extraction require opening Frodo up and "tweezering" the shard
This brings up another question - if the splinter was sentient enough to
work its way toward the heart - Would it have been sentient enought to
attempt to evade any such removal attempt?
just wondering if Tolkien had ever expounded upon this subject or if anyone
had developed any story-consistant ideas
(and yes - i realize its only a story)
thanks for helping me through questions that enter my mind
chris hoelscher
the mogul-knife - it was buired deeply and was moving inward ....
Any indication how? Was this traditional surgery ? Or something elvish - I
would imagine that locating the peice might have been elvish - but did the
extraction require opening Frodo up and "tweezering" the shard
This brings up another question - if the splinter was sentient enough to
work its way toward the heart - Would it have been sentient enought to
attempt to evade any such removal attempt?
just wondering if Tolkien had ever expounded upon this subject or if anyone
had developed any story-consistant ideas
(and yes - i realize its only a story)
thanks for helping me through questions that enter my mind
chris hoelscher
pmhi...@myfairpoint.net
Apr 23, 2012, 7:11:58 AM4/23/12
to
On Apr 22, 11:01 pm, "Chris Hoelscher" <chrishoelsc...@insightbb.com>
wrote:
their way deeper due to tiny barbs at the tip. Ordinary muscle action
is all that's required to "propel" the quill. Should the shard from
the knife have similar barbs or serrations, a similar action would be
likely.
PMH
wrote:
> Gandalf remarks to Frodo (many meetings) that Elrond removed the splinter of
> the mogul-knife - it was buired deeply and was moving inward ....
>
> the mogul-knife - it was buired deeply and was moving inward ....
>
> This brings up another question - if the splinter was sentient enough to
> work its way toward the heart - Would it have been sentient enought to
> attempt to evade any such removal attempt?
"Sentient" is not required. Porcupine quills will continually work
> work its way toward the heart - Would it have been sentient enought to
> attempt to evade any such removal attempt?
their way deeper due to tiny barbs at the tip. Ordinary muscle action
is all that's required to "propel" the quill. Should the shard from
the knife have similar barbs or serrations, a similar action would be
likely.
PMH
derek
Apr 23, 2012, 9:44:30 AM4/23/12
to
On Apr 23, 8:11 am, "pmhil...@myfairpoint.net"
There are also tales of objects like needles migrating through a body
- even though they have no barb.
I have a lot of experience with porcupine quills - having had 4 dogs
that needed to learn, and one that seemed incapable of it. The quills
do move quite significant distances - and you know they've gone
_through_ because they extract easily when you are pulling with the
barb rather than against it . I recall one vet telling me that they
don't worry nearly as much about quills in the face as in the chest,
as the ones in the chest have a much greater chance of working their
way in and puncturing something important (another told me that in 30
years of practice, and extracting quills from all around dogs eyes,
he'd never even heard of a quill puncturing an eyeball).
- even though they have no barb.
I have a lot of experience with porcupine quills - having had 4 dogs
that needed to learn, and one that seemed incapable of it. The quills
do move quite significant distances - and you know they've gone
_through_ because they extract easily when you are pulling with the
barb rather than against it . I recall one vet telling me that they
don't worry nearly as much about quills in the face as in the chest,
as the ones in the chest have a much greater chance of working their
way in and puncturing something important (another told me that in 30
years of practice, and extracting quills from all around dogs eyes,
he'd never even heard of a quill puncturing an eyeball).
Julian Bradfield
Apr 23, 2012, 10:21:54 AM4/23/12
to
On 2012-04-23, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> On Apr 23, 8:11 am, "pmhil...@myfairpoint.net"
><pmhil...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
>> "Sentient" is not required. Porcupine quills will continually work
>> their way deeper due to tiny barbs at the tip. Ordinary muscle action
> On Apr 23, 8:11 am, "pmhil...@myfairpoint.net"
><pmhil...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
>> "Sentient" is not required. Porcupine quills will continually work
>> their way deeper due to tiny barbs at the tip. Ordinary muscle action
> I have a lot of experience with porcupine quills - having had 4 dogs
> that needed to learn, and one that seemed incapable of it. The quills
> do move quite significant distances - and you know they've gone
> _through_ because they extract easily when you are pulling with the
There are a couple of papers from 50 years ago about this. It seems
> that needed to learn, and one that seemed incapable of it. The quills
> do move quite significant distances - and you know they've gone
> _through_ because they extract easily when you are pulling with the
that American porcupine quills move through human muscle at the rate
of about 1mm/hour. (E.g. it took 30 hours for a quill to work from one
side of somebody's leg to the other; and a similar speed was found in
another incident.) They say it doesn't hurt, but you do notice it.
derek
Apr 23, 2012, 10:53:50 AM4/23/12
to
On Apr 23, 11:21 am, Julian Bradfield <j...@inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> There are a couple of papers from 50 years ago about this. It seems
> that American porcupine quills move through human muscle at the rate
> of about 1mm/hour. (E.g. it took 30 hours for a quill to work from one
> side of somebody's leg to the other; and a similar speed was found in
> another incident.) They say it doesn't hurt, but you do notice it.
LOL. I know from experience that getting them _in_ doesn't hurt :-)
> There are a couple of papers from 50 years ago about this. It seems
> that American porcupine quills move through human muscle at the rate
> of about 1mm/hour. (E.g. it took 30 hours for a quill to work from one
> side of somebody's leg to the other; and a similar speed was found in
> another incident.) They say it doesn't hurt, but you do notice it.
After removing quills from one dog, two weeks later I was wearing the
same shirt (which had been through the laundry) and a quill was still
stuck in the shirt, which proceeded to transfer itself into my skin.
I discovered it, possibly hours later, only when it started to itch.
Now, I remove them from the dogs with a pair of pliers - my wife
couldn't bring herself to do that to me (I don't _think_ I was
screaming...), and had to resort to sterilizing and using a razor
blade to cut it out.
Hallaril
Apr 23, 2012, 1:07:45 PM4/23/12
to
On Apr 23, 6:01 am, "Chris Hoelscher" <chrishoelsc...@insightbb.com>
wrote:
We obviously don't know, but I don't see any reason why he would need
some supernatural powers to locate or remove the shard.
Simple surgery.
wrote:
> Gandalf remarks to Frodo (many meetings) that Elrond removed the splinter of
> the mogul-knife - it was buired deeply and was moving inward ....
>
> Any indication how? Was this traditional surgery ? Or something elvish - I
> would imagine that locating the peice might have been elvish - but did the
> extraction require opening Frodo up and "tweezering" the shard
>
snip
> the mogul-knife - it was buired deeply and was moving inward ....
>
> Any indication how? Was this traditional surgery ? Or something elvish - I
> would imagine that locating the peice might have been elvish - but did the
> extraction require opening Frodo up and "tweezering" the shard
>
We obviously don't know, but I don't see any reason why he would need
some supernatural powers to locate or remove the shard.
Simple surgery.
tenworld
Apr 24, 2012, 2:40:01 PM4/24/12
to
like they remove gallstones today.
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