If Tolkien had creative control...
Rock12079
Discuss.
rock
P.S. This has no revelance on the books. The fact that they are masterpieces
is obvious, thats why we're all on this NG.
BaronjosefR
Discuss.
rock
Agreed. Although I like the books, I find them to be over-written and fairly
boring in several areas. Tom Bombadil is the purple Teletubbie of the LOTR and
would not have been well received, and I am certaint that Tolkien would have
wanted to make sure that his wording was absolute. Even in the early 1970's,
right before he died, Tolkien rejected an idea where several authors of the day
would write short novellas in his universe (I believe that Christopher did
allow that project about 5 years ago. I haven't read any of it.).
Pippen
"BaronjosefR" <baron...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031128154539...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Do you know the title('s) or author('s) of the project?
Thanks,
-p
Tar-Elenion
He is probably referring to _After the King_.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0765302071/qid=1070069644/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-0106875-
8032659?v=glance&s=books
--
Tar-Elenion
Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice.
Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.
BaronjosefR
fairly
> boring in several areas. Tom Bombadil is the purple Teletubbie of the LOTR
and
> would not have been well received, and I am certaint that Tolkien would
have
> wanted to make sure that his wording was absolute. Even in the early
1970's,
> right before he died, Tolkien rejected an idea where several authors of
the day
> would write short novellas in his universe (I believe that Christopher did
> allow that project about 5 years ago. I haven't read any of it.).
Do you know the title('s) or author('s) of the project?
Thanks,
-p<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Off the top of my head, I can't remember much about it. I think Terry Goodkind
was an author, maybe Mercedes lackey, but I really don't remember. I saw it in
pasing at Waldenbooks one time and I never lokoed anywhere else or even cared
to. I just remember being surprised at seeing something like that.
Bill O'Meally
"BaronjosefR" <baron...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031128214609...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Tolkien rejected an idea where several authors of
> the day
> > would write short novellas in his universe (I believe that
Christopher did
> > allow that project about 5 years ago. I haven't read any of it.).
>
> Do you know the title('s) or author('s) of the project?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -p<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Off the top of my head, I can't remember much about it.
From what I know of it, it is a collection of short stories by authors
influenced by Tolkien. The stories themselves are not set in ME, nor are
they necessarily even in Tolkien's style.
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
zett
Based on what he wrote to movie makers in Letters,
advising/criticising their changes, I don't think a Tolkien controlled
movie would be a dramatic disaster. (His advice to those movie folks
made more dramatic sense) He said that stuff would have to be cut.
Somewhere he expressed worry about 'compression' (Letters again, I
think)and IMO, his worries were well founded. I think people forget
that Tolkien was an amateur actor and got some enjoyment out of
hearing his stories recited /read on tape, and that IMO makes him more
sympathetic to a dramatisation of his work than many would think.
Financial disaster? Maybe yes, maybe no. Middle earth is not a place
one can portray cheaply. There is a lot of cost to recoup no matter
how the movie is made.
Tamim
> ...these movies would be a dramatic and economic disaster.
> Discuss.
> rock
Well have you seen the extras of the TT:EE where the sceenwriters of the
movie discuss the Books? They said that no professional would have made
the decisions Tolkien made because they would have known them to result
in failure. The decisions were completely unconventional (for example
the structure of the TT). The commentry was laughable because those
admiring the unconvetional decisons of Tolkien made the most
conventional movie themselves. It follows every rule "required" to make
a blockbuster movie.
> P.S. This has no revelance on the books. The fact that they are masterpieces
> is obvious, thats why we're all on this NG.
--
ArtShop
>"BaronjosefR" <baron...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20031128214609...@mb-m05.aol.com...
>
>
>Tolkien rejected an idea where several authors of
>> the day
>> > would write short novellas in his universe (I believe that
>Christopher did
>> > allow that project about 5 years ago. I haven't read any of it.).
>>
>
>From what I know of it, it is a collection of short stories by authors
>influenced by Tolkien. The stories themselves are not set in ME, nor are
>they necessarily even in Tolkien's style.
If the original poster was referring to After the King, then
regrettably the poster above is correct. It is just a collection of
short stories by authors influenced by Tolkien.
But this certainly brings up very intriguing questions of copyright.
At what point will the Tolkien estate cease to have control over
Middle-Earth? From my broadcast law course back in the 70's I know
that at that time copyright on music was held for 75 years past the
death of the composer. That may have since changed. Can anyone in
the newsgroup shed some light on the length of time for copyright on
literary works?
It's probably not the same for literature as for music, but if it
were, that would mean LotR would fall into the public domain around
2047-2048. Many, but not all, in the newsgroup will have departed by
then. But I would predict that at that time (or whenever the
copyright actually expires) the public will be deluged by new
fictional works placed in Middle-Earth and using Tolkien's characters.
The sad part of this is that 90% of it will be total crap (Sturgeon's
Law says so, remember).
So while I understand the desire of Tolkien then and the Tolkien
estate now to not let other authors use the material, there is a
certain advantage if they would. That advantage quite simply is TOTAL
CONTROL. If Christopher Tolkien had total editorial control over any
such work, then I think we would be assured works of reasonably good
quality and respect for the source.
And that, of course, brings up the question of who would be allowed to
write such works? Personally I don't think many fantasy authors would
be up to the task. I would much rather see the task tackled by
authors of historical fiction. Authors who would use the wealth of
material available to do some solid research to create works
consistent with Tolkien's world. I'd love to see someone like Mary
Stewart take a crack at it (is she still around?).
Of course, while copyright dictates that such works could not be
published today without consent, if there existed a publisher that
were really far thinking, they might commision certain authors today
to create Middle-Earth based works that would not be published until
the copyright expires.
Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong, copyright would only effect
those works published for sale. If anyone in the newsgroup wanted to
write such a story and publish it by merely posting to the newsgroup
or on a website for anyone to read for free, then I don't believe
copyright applies. But then Sturgeon's Law kicks in big time in that
situation, LOL!!!
Gary
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TchWrtrMcf
plain awful, a couple of clever endings is the best that can be said for them.
The funny thing is, if Tolkien was trying to sell LOTR today as a new writer,
editors would make him chop out half the story and probably move at least one
battle scene to the front of the books. I think it's the effects of action
movies spilling over into other media, that they don't want to let you dither
around with peripherals for the first quarter of the book (which, personally, I
think is a shame, peripherals can also be great devices to illustrate the
background and characters) but as most publishing companies are run by MBA's
rather than authors, non-linear thinking tends to be under cnstant siege.
Taemon
> The funny thing is, if Tolkien was trying to sell LOTR today as a new
writer,
> editors would make him chop out half the story and probably move at least
one
> battle scene to the front of the books.
Cutting out part of the story might not have been such a bad idea.
> I think it's the effects of action
> movies spilling over into other media,
I think you're talking "things used to be so much better" here. There are
more books around, due to the word-processor. More bad books. More good
books.
T.
Chris Basken
> TchWrtrMcf:
> > I think it's the effects of action
> > movies spilling over into other media,
>
> I think you're talking "things used to be so much better" here. There are
> more books around, due to the word-processor. More bad books. More good
> books.
Absolutely. Add in a healthy dose of "rose-colored memories" and you complete
the phenomenon.
Graeme
>
>Discuss.
>
>rock
You're wrong. That was easy. (Too bad you forgot to make a case).
Next question?
Mel
This is, amazingly, a cogent point. Having been USAF, I find your
stunning inconsistency (i.e., lamenting the siege upon non-linear
thinking while being so linear about Saddam in other threads)
untypical of other Navy compatriots...must be just you.