Lord of the Rings - unreadable, self-indulgent, boring and just not clever
Dr. Ewan Jackson
you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
ever committed to paper.
Whilst more accomplished authors take the time
to research their subjects, Tolkien exploited a
loop-hole which allowed him to be lazy.
The "fantasy" genre requires less talent than any
other literary genre, and is the easiest thing
in the world to write.
Books set in real locations (eg Rome, London,
Antarctica, the Sahara Desert) during real
conflicts (eg the Great Depression, WWII,
the Boer War etc.) require thorough research
on the part of the author, in order to achieve
some kind of verisimultude.
"Lord of the Rings" on the other hand, requires
zero knowledge of anything at all, simply because
all the locations and setting are made up by
Tolkien.
Those of you who marvel at Tolkien's literary
masturbations should perhaps familiarise yourselves
with true geniuses like Balzac or Henry James.
Ewan Jackson
D.G. Porter
>
> I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> ever committed to paper.
Zippy the Pinhead once said:
"Look, I'm pretending to reel in a trout. Am I doing it properly?"
We just joined the Civil Hair Patrol. Were you two playing zithers?
Aris Katsaris
"Dr. Ewan Jackson" <ewanlo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com...
> I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> ever committed to paper.
Oh, I think we almost all agree that this was a self-indulgent pursuit
of Tolkien's. He'd have probably agreed with you.
But then again I see all literature, all storytelling and all art as a
self-indulgent pursuit. Not much of an insult IMO.
> Whilst more accomplished authors take the time
> to research their subjects, Tolkien exploited a
> loop-hole which allowed him to be lazy.
> The "fantasy" genre requires less talent than any
> other literary genre, and is the easiest thing
> in the world to write.
And because of that, it's the worst thing in the
world to write *well*. Like Icarus, excessive freedom
leads too many authors to try to fly too high and therefore
burn and crash.
Aris Katsaris
Jim Campbell
at ewanlo...@my-deja.com wrote on 31/8/02 7:13 am:
> "Lord of the Rings" on the other hand, requires
> zero knowledge of anything at all, simply because
> all the locations and setting are made up by
> Tolkien.
And, by your argument, 'Eastenders' is a work of greater significance than
'A Mid-Summer Night's Dream' since one the former is a work grounded in the
'real' world whilst the latter is a work of fantasy.
Sorry to bite on this one, people, but the suggestion from certain literary
quarters that incorporating elements of fantasy (or science fiction) into
fiction automatically invalidates it as a 'serious' work _really_ winds me
up!
Cheers
Jim
Trence
Jackson) wrote:
snip pointless diatribe
First off, may I remind you of some of the greatest pieces of
literature this world has ever seen?
Le Morte D'Arthur Malory
La Divina Commedia Dante Alighieri
The Song of Roland
(Or whatever the correct english title may be, can't be bothered)
Utopia Moore
Beowulf
The collected works of a certain mr W. Shakespeare
Iliad and Odyssee Homer
The Edda
Alice in Wonderland/through the Looking Glass
Some of the works by Jules Verne
A thousand and one nights
Hemingway
Moby Dick
E.A. Poe
Peter Pan
1984 and Animal Farm
Collected Fables by LaFontaine
Lord of the Flies
Paradise Lost
Ulysses
The Torah, Bible, Q'oran
All these and more have hardly required any (indeed *if* any) research
and most of them, the research is hardly important as the characters
are the integral part of the story, as is the underlying current.
Fantasy is generally, if done well, one of the hardest genres to write
as you have to put down a complete world in order to suspend
disbelief. Books set in real locations can refer back to the general
knowledge we already have built up during our schooling.
And, first and foremost, for any book to be read, out of a
study/reference context, is it's enjoyability.
Tolkien fits this to a T.
Now piss off and go bother a different newsgroup.
Terence
Trence
>On 30 Aug 2002 23:13:37 -0700, ewanlo...@my-deja.com (Dr. Ewan
>Jackson) wrote:
>
>snip pointless diatribe
Also my apologies to the group for feeding a troll, like Jim in
another post said, these guys touch buttons.
Only then did I check out groups.google.com and generally, if the
people at alt.revisionism and other newsgroups consider him a troll,
I guess that says enough really doesn't it?
Terence
Morthond
"Dr. Ewan Jackson" <ewanlo...@my-deja.com> wrote a lot of gibberish....
(snip)
just another troll... no more replies from me.
:-)
Morthond
Manuel DELORME
Let's talk briefly about "big litterature" : Honoré de Balzac, Jean-Paul
Sartre, Diderot, Cervantes, Victor Hugo were all contemporary authors of
their Chef d'Oeuvre. From this point, the research was limited (I respect
their works however) to en extended network of friendships and relationships
within the society they were describing.
From that point of view, the creativity was not on the imagination, but on
semantic and style.
Also, talent came from the active participation these authors had on
political and intellectual life.
Fantasy had been heavily criticized by Jules Vernes contemporary colleagues,
just to be admired, decenies later, as a member of the classical writting
pantheon.
Tolkien was a professor of English (or so far, I think). From there, he
developped a story that leaves almost no holes. From its Genesis to its end,
99% of the facts can be verified, dated by themself of by approximation to
other elements. Twist the Silmarillion, LOTR, UT, ec. tales, facts and
characters in any way you like, no incoherency will be found.
Misteries shall remain, of course (was Glorfindel the same as the 1st age?
Who's or what's Tom ? Why Silmarillion doesn't comment creation of Hobbits)
, etc... But remeber that until his last breath, JRR Tolkien was prolific on
his creation. Should he have had a longer life (missing blood from Numenor,
Halas), certain points would have been cleared up)
He created a parallel reality, with its rules, genesis, and complex
documentated languages.
From this, JRRT oeuvre was used as a starting point for so many other
fantasy.. There I could agree with you : exploiting one writers background,
to "create" a genre"Pern Cycle", etc. is a lack of creativity.
morgan mair fheal
> world to write *well*. Like Icarus, excessive freedom
> leads too many authors to try to fly too high and therefore
> burn and crash.
lifes a bitch and then yoiu die
so if between birth and death you can find something to enjoy
within the long cold dark
enjoy it
and let others find what they enjoy
Rotwang
> you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> ever committed to paper.
Oh look, an elitist litterature fascist troll !!!
*Plonk*
Graeme
during real conflicts (eg the Great Depression, WWII, the Boer War etc.)
require thorough research on the part of the author, in order to achieve some
kind of verisimultude.
>>
Obviously if you hate all science-fiction and fantasy as genres, you will also
hate Lord of the Rings. Where's the newsflash?
BaronjosefR
I am not sure who the twit was who started this discussion point in the thread,
but it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The only people I have ever met
who viewed history books as fine literature are history professors, and
militaristic clowns who come up with ways and reasons to invade Canada.
All jokes aside, if we take the view that only literature based in reality and
thoroughly researched are any good, you relegate half the classics in English
literature to the trash heap. Beowulf? Dante's Inferno? A Midsummer Night's
Dream? 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? War of the Worlds?
Get my point?
I seem to remember seeing that the joker who started this thread was a doctor
of some type. I am not sure what sort of doctor, but the only think I can think
of is he has the doctor's certificate from the game 'Operation' on his wall.
HoopsBhoy67
AC
> Whats your problem?
Oh, the good Doctor's just trolling.
--
AC
JRStern
It's called fiction, dude. But not to worry. For those who can't
handle fantasy, there's always reality.
J.
AC
And that's why I love fantasy so.
--
AC
the softrat
>masturbations should perhaps familiarise yourselves
>with true geniuses like Balzac or Henry James.
>
the softrat "He who rubs owls"
the Zulu Princess
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
I want to die in my sleep like grandpa, not terrified and
screaming like his passengers.
Nathan
>Subject: Lord of the Rings - unreadable, self-indulgent, boring and just not
>clever
>From: ewanlo...@my-deja.com (Dr. Ewan Jackson)
>Date: 8/31/02 7:13 AM GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Douglas Adams, 1953-2001
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott Munro
Jackson) wrote:
>"Lord of the Rings" on the other hand, requires
>zero knowledge of anything at all, simply because
>all the locations and setting are made up by
>Tolkien.
"Jazz, pfft. They just make it up as they go along. I could do
that."
--Homer J. Simpson, boob.
--
Scott Munro
"But what is liberty without wisdom and without virtue? It is the
greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness,
without tuition or restraint."
--Edmund Burke, *Reflections on the Revolution in France*
Flame of the West
> lifes a bitch and then yoiu die
> so if between birth and death you can find something to enjoy
> within the long cold dark
>
> enjoy it
>
> and let others find what they enjoy
And some enjoy trolling on the Internet, like Mr. Ewan Jackson.
It makes them feel alive, just as Rocky Frisco feels when swearing.
So I don't begrudge them their pathetic trolling.
--
-- FotW, official decider of what's fair and what's not
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Troels Forchhammer
> (Yawn!)
Damned!
You beat me to it ;-)
--
Troels Forchhammer
Please reply to t.f...@mail.dk
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Hogfather)
Dr. Ewan Jackson
Amazing. Two sentences that make absolutely no sense at all.
EJ
Dr. Ewan Jackson
You clearly have only the most superficial understanding of
Greek myth.
EJ
Dr. Ewan Jackson
I'm a big fan of good science fiction, such as Greg Egen (as opposed
to silly, self-indulgent science fiction a la Frank Herbert).
EJ
Dr. Ewan Jackson
> On 30 Aug 2002 23:13:37 -0700, ewanlo...@my-deja.com (Dr. Ewan
> Jackson) wrote:
> >Whilst more accomplished authors take the time
> >to research their subjects, ...
>
> It's called fiction, dude.
The difference between fiction and fantasy evidently has not
penetrated your intellect, dude.
EJ
Dr. Ewan Jackson
> in article 636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com, Dr. Ewan Jackson
> at ewanlo...@my-deja.com wrote on 31/8/02 7:13 am:
>
> > "Lord of the Rings" on the other hand, requires
> > zero knowledge of anything at all, simply because
> > all the locations and setting are made up by
> > Tolkien.
>
> And, by your argument, 'Eastenders' is a work of greater significance than
> 'A Mid-Summer Night's Dream' since one the former is a work grounded in the
> 'real' world whilst the latter is a work of fantasy.
Firstly, the debating fallacy you are displaying is known as a Straw
Man Fallacy. All you are attacking is a misrepresentation of
my arguments which, apparently, is all you are up to.
For further information:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html
In any events, you obviously haven't read "A Mid-Summer Night's
Dream". If
you can't find the unsubtle parallels between Shakespeare's narrative
and the real world, I can't help you. And "A Mid-Summer Night's
Dream" has some
of the most delightfully eloquent passages ever written.
Of course Shakespeare's work is far superior to "Eastenders". I wish
I could say the same for Tolkien.
EJ
Graeme
--
AC
>>
Hee hee, you know, I always love how often trolls pose as Doctors, PHD's, or
the like in order to say something that would have nothing to do with their
field, even if they were telling the truth. "Oh, but I must be right because
I'm a doctor, you know."
--
Graeme
World Chess Champion, expert swordsman, world's richest man, holder of the
Victoria Cross, black belt in karate, patronizer of MENSAites, and a whole
bunch of other things that are much more impressive than a mere doctorate.
Looney
Anthony "Looney" Toohey
--------------------------------
Please don't read this...
Thanks.
AC
So you dislike classic SF. That does not surprise me. You're clearly
neither a Dr. of any meaningful kind nor a meaningful judge of what is good
and what is bad. Crawl back under your rock and leave this group alone.
Surely Usenet has enough kooks, idiots and trolls with fake Doctors trying
to prove that they have some wisdom that all but themselves clearly lack.
In other words, pseudo-Dr., bugger off.
--
AC
AC
The evidence that you are another Usenet troll is conclusive. Consider
yourself in my killfile, pseudo-Dr. Troll.
--
AC
BaronjosefR
EJ
<<<<<<<<<
And if you knew as much about Tolkein as you claim, you would know that much of
his writing refers back to aspects and events in Tolkein's real life and does
take a little bit of smarts to read (maybe that is why you don't understand
it).
As well, when you read any type of literature, it is supposed to be the readers
interpretation of events in the text and what it means to the reader that
should matter, not what the perceived attempted meaning was supposed to be. For
many, the crossing into Mordor is a coming-of-age parallel. You empathize with
Frodo as he grows through situations he has never faced before.
The war itself draws direct correlations to WWI. A basic struggle between
perceived good and perceived evil.
The problem here is that you aren't bright enough to think and relate to
abstract concepts and ideas. That is what Tolkein works in, the abstracts. The
fact that you didn't understand the gist of what I was saying concerning
Dante's Inferno, Shakespeare's a Midsummer Nights Dream, and other stories of
similar bent, proves my point completely. I agree that it is beautifully
written, but it is still a fantasy. According to your narrow-minded view of
things, the fantastic aspect of it makes it less than the classic it actually
is.
morgan mair fheal
ewanlo...@my-deja.com (Dr. Ewan Jackson) wrote:
that because you dont yet realize the tgird sentence
was actually harry lime himself
wbfields
It's enjoyable reading. That, in and of itself, makes Tolkien a literary
genius compared to some of those egotistical blowhards who consider
themselves "serious" writers. Writers who coin 25 cent words to relate real
locations, and real conflicts in their writings are simply retelling old
stories in new trappings. If they can do it and make reading it a pleasure,
so be it; they have created art. If it isn't enjoyable..............maybe
they should stick to writing text books.
Another thing.......fantasy might indeed (I don't really know or care)
REQUIRE less talent, but I doubt a truly great fantasy writer settles for
investing the absolute minimum talent in their work.
"Dr. Ewan Jackson" <ewanlo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com...
> I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> ever committed to paper.
>
> Whilst more accomplished authors take the time
> to research their subjects, Tolkien exploited a
> loop-hole which allowed him to be lazy.
> The "fantasy" genre requires less talent than any
> other literary genre, and is the easiest thing
> in the world to write.
>
> Books set in real locations (eg Rome, London,
> Antarctica, the Sahara Desert) during real
> conflicts (eg the Great Depression, WWII,
> the Boer War etc.) require thorough research
> on the part of the author, in order to achieve
> some kind of verisimultude.
>
> "Lord of the Rings" on the other hand, requires
> zero knowledge of anything at all, simply because
> all the locations and setting are made up by
> Tolkien.
>
wbfields
JRStern
Jackson) wrote:
>> It's called fiction, dude.
>
>The difference between fiction and fantasy evidently has not
>penetrated your intellect, dude.
That you have anything to say is a fiction.
That anybody cares is a fantasy.
J.
Dr. Ewan Jackson
[..]
>
> And if you knew as much about Tolkein as you claim,
Cite the post in which I claim to be an authority on Tolkien, liar.
Message ID will suffice.
> you would know that much of
> his writing refers back to aspects and events in Tolkein's real life and does
> take a little bit of smarts to read
In other words, vast sections of this "book" are unreadable.
EJ
Jim Campbell
> In any events, you obviously haven't read "A Mid-Summer Night's
> Dream". If
> you can't find the unsubtle parallels between Shakespeare's narrative
> and the real world, I can't help you. And "A Mid-Summer Night's
> Dream" has some
> of the most delightfully eloquent passages ever written.
No. You're quite right. Whilst not having achieved your lofty academic
heights, I _do_ have an Honours degree in English Literature from the
University of London and have read (and seen performed) 'A Mid-Summer
Night's Dream' many times.
And just because Tolkien _said_ there was no allegory in The Lord of the
Rings, doesn't actually make it so. Or did you miss the rampant
industrialism of both Sauron and Saruman ...?
Cheers
Jim
Christian Hannibal
"BaronjosefR" <baron...@aol.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:20020831220155...@mb-fe.aol.com...
Don't want to help the troll here, but your post will automatically loose
some authority when you consistently misspell Tolkien's name. That's right.
His name is TOLKIEN. Not Tolkein...it's true....go check the back of your
books...
--
Greetings,
Hannibal
Remove -remove to reply
L. Vanerstrom
news:636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com:
Care to explain why, exactly, you began this debate to begin with? Are you
merely trolling or is there something else that you are up to? As the name
of this group reads clearly as alt.FAN.tolkien, and you obviously aren't a
fan, I can only assume that your presence here has some vile purpose.
You've said your peace, have a nice day :)
Aris Katsaris
"Dr. Ewan Jackson" <ewanlo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com...
> "Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:<akq2mv$e0a$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>...
> > world to write *well*. Like Icarus, excessive freedom
> > leads too many authors to try to fly too high and therefore
> > burn and crash.
>
> You clearly have only the most superficial understanding of
> Greek myth.
First, try to quote only the part of the post you are responding to. Snip
when possible.
Secondly, I doubt you can tell from a single sentence how much an
understanding of Greek myth I have.
Aris Katsaris
Aris Katsaris
> baron...@aol.com (BaronjosefR) wrote in message
news:<20020831220155...@mb-fe.aol.com>...
> [..]
> >
> > And if you knew as much about Tolkein as you claim,
>
> Cite the post in which I claim to be an authority on Tolkien, liar.
> Message ID will suffice.
news:636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com
"Tolkien exploited a loop-hole which allowed him to be lazy."
You claim to know what Tolkien did and for what reason. In truth
of course, his fantastical construction was much harder than any
real one, since he created languages, geographies, climates and
histories from scratch, all interacting with each other, rather than
just open an encyclopedia.
Aris Katsaris
Mike Scott Rohan
from ewanlo...@my-deja.com (Dr. Ewan Jackson) contains these words:
> EJ
Pretends to a doctorate, and calls people "dude"! Put your baseball
cap on the right way round and go get a life, moron.
Mike Scott Rohan
from ewanlo...@my-deja.com (Dr. Ewan Jackson) contains these words:
> I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> ever committed to paper.
> Whilst more accomplished authors take the time
> to research their subjects, Tolkien exploited a
> loop-hole which allowed him to be lazy.
> The "fantasy" genre requires less talent than any
> other literary genre, and is the easiest thing
> in the world to write.
> Books set in real locations (eg Rome, London,
> Antarctica, the Sahara Desert) during real
> conflicts (eg the Great Depression, WWII,
> the Boer War etc.) require thorough research
> on the part of the author, in order to achieve
> some kind of verisimultude.
> "Lord of the Rings" on the other hand, requires
> zero knowledge of anything at all, simply because
> all the locations and setting are made up by
> Tolkien.
> Those of you who marvel at Tolkien's literary
> masturbations should perhaps familiarise yourselves
> with true geniuses like Balzac or Henry James.
> Ewan Jackson
A troll, probably a teenager or a bit "remedial", because this is
such a ham-handed attempt to annoy. However, self-satisfied idiots
like this do exist, sometimes, so we might as well deal with him.
And on that basis, the first thing we can ask is -- by what right do
you assume we don't know Balzac and James better than you, you little
twit? And a great deal more of literature? Many people in this group
are pretty well read, some of them literary academics themselves. For
myself, as well as English and American standards, I've read Balzac,
Goethe and Pushkin in the originals, and I'm by no means alone. Can
he? I suspect not, or he wouldn't write such rubbish in the first place.
But even beyond shooting himself in the foot like that, the whole
tone of what he says is stupid. He appears to have no grounding in
literature, or he would appreciate the fundamental critical principle
that there is no such thing as a "real" setting. Every work of
fiction, even the most hidebound social realism, is entirely
subjective. The author creates its setting in his mind, and peoples
it with characters that act as his mind directs. So London in
Dickens' novels, for example, is Dickens' London, a stylized, shaped
creation, not a real place; and Dickens' characters are not real
people, they are Dickens' entirely subjective representations of
humanity. Equally so with Balzac's Paris, or Henry James's social
milieu -- just as Cousin Bette and Dr.Sloper are puppets of their
imagination, and no more inherently "real" than Tolkien's characters.
The appearance of reality is just that -- an appearance, a theatrical
prop to be used like any other instrument of the author's
imagination. And as many modern authors have found, often putting
characters in inherently "unreal" situations can say a lot more about
the human condition than a slavish adherence to those trappings of
reality. Hence, for example, Bulgakov's The Master & Margarita, one
of the greatest 20th century novels; hence Borges, hence the entire
magical-realist school, although most of them do not write as well as
Bulgakov -- or Tolkien, for that matter. His world, as Terry
Pratchett and others remark, is in fact incredibly solid, nature and
landscape described with gritty realism and restrained lyrical power,
so they almost become players in the drama.
Our snotty infant should also know, but evidently doesn't, how
imbecilic it is to compare writers as dogmatically as he does. One
reads Henry James as Henry James, and whether one considers him
better or worse than, say, D.H.Lawrence reflects on oneself and not
on either James or Lawrence. And James, incidentally, while he has
his moments, is generally a leaden, self-indulgent and overstylized
bore who could have used something of Tolkien's spare clarity of
language. "Literary masturbation" describes James all too accurately.
What on earth could somebody this thick have a doctorate in, anyhow?
Media studies? Sociology? Coprophagy? On the evidence of this, if
he's got one, it came by mail order. Maybe he can read Henry James,
and hasn't just picked him out of the free Encarta disc with his
supermarket PC; if so, they deserve one another. But he should leave
Balzac alone; you need imagination to appreciate him.
BaronjosefR
some authority when you consistently misspell Tolkien's name. That's right.
His name is TOLKIEN. Not Tolkein...it's true....go check the back of your
books.
Just becasue I do not type well, doesn't make the point any different.
Christian Hannibal
You are right. But if I were a stupid troll and a saw a post where somebody
tries to tell some truths about Tolkien (as you did) and then is not able to
spell the name of the person in question I would really start to nitpick on
that. Especially if I were a troll who claims to be a doctor.....but let's
get back to flaming the troll... :-)
Troels Forchhammer
> But even beyond shooting himself in the foot like that, the whole
> tone of what he says is stupid. He appears to have no grounding in
> literature, or he would appreciate the fundamental critical principle
> that there is no such thing as a "real" setting. Every work of
> fiction, even the most hidebound social realism, is entirely
> subjective. The author creates its setting in his mind, and peoples
> it with characters that act as his mind directs.
He also apparently doesn't realize that the argument he uses is
most easily turned on the head.
If reality was copyrighted ...
The kind of 'research' he seems to favour is, by the way,
equivalent to the kind of research favoured by those self-pronounced
'scientists' who opposed Galilei, claiming that all knowledge was
contained in the approved books and that the only valid research
was the reading of those. Innovation and invention were blasphemous.
Looney
>Cite the post in which I claim to be an authority on Tolkien, liar.
>Message ID will suffice.
>
So you admit to blathering on about that of which you know nothing. Good.
Glad you cleared that up for us.
Buh-bye now...
Flame of the West
> I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> ever committed to paper.
So where did you get your Ph.D. in trolling?
--
-- FotW, official decider of what's fair and what's not
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Ermanna
Dr. Ewan Jackson made dwagin-sized wripples in the Force:
<shnip>
> > > Whilst more accomplished authors take the time
> > > to research their subjects, Tolkien exploited a
> > > loop-hole which allowed him to be lazy.
> > > The "fantasy" genre requires less talent than any
> > > other literary genre, and is the easiest thing
> > > in the world to write.
> >
> > world to write *well*. Like Icarus, excessive freedom
> > leads too many authors to try to fly too high and therefore
> > burn and crash.
>
> You clearly have only the most superficial understanding of
> Greek myth.
And this is clearly an evasion.
> EJ
Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight, Lady of Rivendell,
Headmistress of the AFT/RABT Charm School,
Hug-Therapist, Queen of the Balrog Wingophiles
Elbereth Gilthoniel!
Jette Goldie
"Mike Scott Rohan" wrote
> What on earth could somebody this thick have a doctorate in, anyhow?
> Media studies? Sociology? Coprophagy?
I vote #3
;-)
--
Jette
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
"I don't care WHO started it - STOP IT NOW!!"
anon
> "D.G. Porter" <dgpo...@NOSPAMMERSpacbell.naught> wrote in message news:<3D705E...@NOSPAMMERSpacbell.naught>...
> > Dr. Ewan Jackson wrote:
> > >
> > > I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> > > you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> > > ever committed to paper.
> >
> > Zippy the Pinhead once said:
> >
> > "Look, I'm pretending to reel in a trout. Am I doing it properly?"
> >
> > We just joined the Civil Hair Patrol. Were you two playing zithers?
>
> Amazing. Two sentences that make absolutely no sense at all.
>
> EJ
Aren't you the tosser who used to troll in alt.fan.art-bell and other woo-woo
newsgroups? Tell us all about your "PhD".
--
anon
------------------------------------------------------------
"I find some of the webbies to be very entertaining,
& they are most enjoyable when tossed by their tails
for distance."
Something I read on a newsgroup once
------------------------------------------------------------
anon
Oh he understands 'greek' all right. Ask him about those 'special'
nights in the doublewide with Art Bell.
Tamim
It doesn't. But typing Tolkein three times and Tolkien zero times is not
a mistake in typing, it just means you thought that Tolkien is spelled Tolkein.
Flame of the West
> > you would know that much of
> > his writing refers back to aspects and events in Tolkein's real life and does
> > take a little bit of smarts to read
>
> In other words, vast sections of this "book" are unreadable.
For you since you don't seem to have any smarts. BTW,
why is the word 'Book' in quotes? Is LotR not a book?
BaronjosefR
a mistake in typing, it just means you thought that Tolkien is spelled Tolkein.
No, it just means that some people cannot distinguish between the two orders of
the letters. Get it? See how I spell because as well. I have to watch very
closely on things like this. It can't be helped some time, and even when I get
it right, I cant be certain. Understood?
Dr. Ewan Jackson
> MR. Ewan Jackson wrote:
> >Cite the post in which I claim to be an authority on Tolkien, liar.
> >Message ID will suffice.
> >
>
> So you admit to blathering on about that of which you know nothing.
You have a reading comprehension problem.
Perhaps I should explain as though to a new-born.
I never claimed to be an authority on Tolkien. Nor did I claim
NOT to be an authority on Tolkien. I have never claimed anything
in relation to my knowledge of Tolkien. So your conclusion
(ie that I "know nothing" about Tolkien) is symptomatic
of either total dishonesty on your part, or an inability to
read plain English.
KILLFILE!
EJ
Dr. Ewan Jackson
> in article 636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com, Dr. Ewan Jackson
> at ewanlo...@my-deja.com wrote on 1/9/02 1:55 am:
>
> > In any events, you obviously haven't read "A Mid-Summer Night's
> > Dream". If
> > you can't find the unsubtle parallels between Shakespeare's narrative
> > and the real world, I can't help you. And "A Mid-Summer Night's
> > Dream" has some
> > of the most delightfully eloquent passages ever written.
>
> No. You're quite right. Whilst not having achieved your lofty academic
> heights, I _do_ have an Honours degree in English Literature from the
> University of London and have read (and seen performed) 'A Mid-Summer
> Night's Dream' many times.
Really? Then would you please be so kind as to provide the following
information which will enable me to confirm your Honours Degree:
Where and when was your honours treatise published?
Where and when did you defend the thesis? Who was on the
committee?
What is the exact phrasing of your honours conferment?
What books have you authored on the subject of English literature?
Please include, titles, publishers and ISBN nomenclature.
EJ
Jerome Gregory
> "Dr. Ewan Jackson" <ewanlo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com...
> > "Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
> news:<akq2mv$e0a$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>...
> > > And because of that, it's the worst thing in the
> > > world to write *well*. Like Icarus, excessive freedom
> > > leads too many authors to try to fly too high and therefore
> > > burn and crash.
> >
> > You clearly have only the most superficial understanding of
> > Greek myth.
>
> First, try to quote only the part of the post you are responding to. Snip
> when possible.
He did precisely that. He quoted the part about Icarus.
Fucking moron.
Jerome
Jerome Gregory
Why don't you cite the source for that paraphrased quote,
rather than passing it off as your own?
Jerome
Jerome Gregory
> graem...@aol.compost (Graeme) wrote in message news:<20020831092021...@mb-ce.aol.com>...
> > >>Books set in real locations (eg Rome, London, Antarctica, the Sahara Desert)
> > during real conflicts (eg the Great Depression, WWII, the Boer War etc.)
> > require thorough research on the part of the author, in order to achieve some
> > kind of verisimultude.
> > >>
> >
> > hate Lord of the Rings. Where's the newsflash?
>
>
> I'm a big fan of good science fiction, such as Greg Egen (as opposed
> to silly, self-indulgent science fiction a la Frank Herbert).
>
Hell yeah. "Dune" is almost as self-indulgent as LOTR.
Jerome
Aris Katsaris
"Jerome Gregory" <jero...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ca818bee.0209...@posting.google.com...
> > when possible.
>
> He did precisely that. He quoted the part about Icarus.
Actually he quoted everything.
> Fucking moron.
Plonk.
Aris Katsaris
Looney
It would take a fairly comprehensive knowledge of Tolkien to be able to state
the things you have. It's a direct implication, as someone as "knowledgable"
as you purport to be would never allow himself to be caught out by making value
judgments about a body of literature of which he had no knowledge. In spite of
that simple logic trail, you deny all knowledge of that which you judge.
You're a moron, plain and simple. Tell us the truth, you have a room full of
10,000 monkeys on typewriters, right?
>KILLFILE!
Oh, yeahhhh, suuuurrrre. Everyone knows tail-chasing trolls don't have
killfiles...
Jerome Gregory
You can't read either. He was mocking the guy who said "It's called
fiction, dude".
Fucking moron.
Jerome
Jerome Gregory
I guess the main problem with Tolkien is the blatent racism which is inherent
in his works.
Jerome
Looney
Ehhh, I hate to break the news to you, bub, but you're the one with the
credibility problem...
the softrat
AHA! Now you know why God invented spell checkers!!
For the blind, lysdexic, and fumble fingered!
the softrat "He who rubs owls"
the Zulu Princess
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Dough, the stuff, that buys my beer, Ray, the guy that tends the
bar, Me, the guy, who drinks my beer, Far, the distance to the
bar, So, I think I'll have a beer, La, Laa lAA lAh LaH LAA
LAAAH! Tea, no thanks I want a beer, which brings us back to
Dough Dough Dough!
Dr. Ewan Jackson
> "Dr. Ewan Jackson" wrote:
>
> > I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> > you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> > ever committed to paper.
>
> So where did you get your Ph.D. in trolling?
Use your real name, anonymous coward, and you get an answer.
EJ
Looney
Oh, sure, and Dr. Jackson is really your name, mr. "my-deja..."
And why are you so cranky? That degree not getting you the chicks?
g.skinner
news:3D729242...@nowhere.com...
> "Dr. Ewan Jackson" wrote:
>
> > "D.G. Porter" <dgpo...@NOSPAMMERSpacbell.naught> wrote in message
news:<3D705E...@NOSPAMMERSpacbell.naught>...
> > > Dr. Ewan Jackson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> > > > you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> > > > ever committed to paper.
> > >
> > > Zippy the Pinhead once said:
> > >
> > > "Look, I'm pretending to reel in a trout. Am I doing it properly?"
> > >
> > > We just joined the Civil Hair Patrol. Were you two playing zithers?
> >
> > Amazing. Two sentences that make absolutely no sense at all.
> >
> > EJ
>
> Aren't you the tosser who used to troll in alt.fan.art-bell and other
woo-woo
> newsgroups? Tell us all about your "PhD".
>
Öjevind Lång
> The message <636415e9.02083...@posting.google.com>
> from ewanlo...@my-deja.com (Dr. Ewan Jackson) contains these words:
[snip]
> > The difference between fiction and fantasy evidently has not
> > penetrated your intellect, dude.
>
> > EJ
>
> Pretends to a doctorate, and calls people "dude"! Put your baseball
> cap on the right way round and go get a life, moron.
He's just a troll, Mike.
Öjevind
morgan mair fheal -re-
jero...@hotmail.com (Jerome Gregory) wrote:
palmer wrote in spring of 1992
i dont feel like looking it up in déjà-news
morgan mair fheal -re-
not as indulgent however as hot fudge and chopped nuts on frozen mashed potatoes
with whipped cream
of wheat
morgan mair fheal -re-
tahts true
they race to rivendell
they race to moria
they race mordor
they race to isengard
they race to the golden arches
your real name
Tamim
snip
> You can't read either. He was mocking the guy who said "It's called
> fiction, dude".
> Fucking moron.
> Jerome
snip
So that you all know, Jerome Gregory appears to be Dr Ewan's alias.--
coyotes rand mair fheal
<hall...@hotmail.com> wrote:
its hard to tell denizens of rec.arts.prose apart
not that theyre all socks of the same
but its just not worth the effort
Flame of the West
> But typing Tolkein three times and Tolkien zero times is not
> a mistake in typing, it just means you thought that Tolkien is spelled Tolkein.
"I" before "e" except after "k"...
Stefan Walker
"Dr. Ewan Jackson" <ewanlo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:636415e9.02090...@posting.google.com...
Ah, the fact that you can buy a Ph.D on the Internet compounds your narrative.
You obviously crave one-upmanship and have a fixed view of the world. For all your clever sophistry, you're just a
little boy with the nomenclature 'Dr'.
Now, I believe the original subject claimed intolerance, self-indulgence, boring, etc...These words seem apt to describe
your views and behaviour as the thread has grown. One might say you're a bit of bigot, peddling the same semantics.
>
EJ
Mike Scott Rohan
from mair_...@yahoo.com (morgan mair fheal -re-) contains these words:
LOL!
--
mike.sco...@asgard.zetnet.co.uk
Mike Scott Rohan
from jero...@hotmail.com (Jerome Gregory) contains these words:
{snip}
> > Pretends to a doctorate, and calls people "dude"! Put your baseball
> > cap on the right way round and go get a life, moron.
> You can't read either. He was mocking the guy who said "It's called
> fiction, dude".
> Fucking moron.
No, quite intelligent, actually. Certainly enough to see that "he" is
the same person.
Mike Scott Rohan
from jero...@hotmail.com (Jerome Gregory) contains these words:
> Jerome
No, if I were going to say that, I'd spell "blatant" correctly.
Joy
Öjevind Lång
[snip]
> Aren't you the tosser who used to troll in alt.fan.art-bell and other
woo-woo
> newsgroups? Tell us all about your "PhD".
What is a woo-woo newsgroup?
Öjevind
BaronjosefR
AHA! Now you know why God invented spell checkers!!
For the blind, lysdexic, and fumble fingered!
But in the name of this author, a spell-checker wouldn't matter.
BaronjosefR
> > Dream". If
> > you can't find the unsubtle parallels between Shakespeare's narrative
> > and the real world, I can't help you. And "A Mid-Summer Night's
> > Dream" has some
> > of the most delightfully eloquent passages ever written.
>
> No. You're quite right. Whilst not having achieved your lofty academic
> heights, I _do_ have an Honours degree in English Literature from the
> University of London and have read (and seen performed) 'A Mid-Summer
> Night's Dream' many times.
Really? Then would you please be so kind as to provide the following
information which will enable me to confirm your Honours Degree:
Where and when was your honours treatise published?
Where and when did you defend the thesis? Who was on the
committee?
What is the exact phrasing of your honours conferment?
What books have you authored on the subject of English literature?
Please include, titles, publishers and ISBN nomenclature.
EJ
EJ, I can't say I like you much, but you nailed this asswipe. Nicely done.
Mika-Petri Lauronen
> Tamim wrote:
>
>> But typing Tolkein three times and Tolkien zero times is not
>> a mistake in typing, it just means you thought that Tolkien is
>> spelled Tolkein.
>
> "I" before "e" except after "k"...
>
Still, it is spelled "Tolkien". Just blame his parents.
--
-- Rauha, rakkaus, raparperi!
-- Peace, love, vegetables!
-- Mixu Lauronen, mpla...@paju.oulu.fi
Jim Campbell
baron...@aol.com wrote on 2/9/02 5:39 pm:
> EJ, I can't say I like you much, but you nailed this asswipe. Nicely done.
Up yours.
I can only assume the University education system is substantially different
from whence the good Doctor hails, because I sat an absolute shitload of
exams for three years, ranging from Beowulf (in the original Old English,
thankyouverymuch, and I'd like to thank Professor Tolkien for his invaluable
Anglo-Saxon primer ...!) through to 20th Century literature, passing through
most periods in between, although I leant towards the Elizabethan and
Jacobean dramatists by preference.
At the end of it, I got a piece paper telling me that I was now a Bachelor
of the Arts (Honours).
I didn't, at any stage, say that I was more or less clever, or informed, or
qualified, than anyone else - merely taking exception to the statement that
I had "obviously never read A Mid-summer Night's Dream".
Cheers
Jim Campbell - BA (Hons)
PS - Must. Stop. Replying to. This. Thread!
Flame of the West
> Aren't you the tosser who used to troll in alt.fan.art-bell and other woo-woo
> newsgroups? Tell us all about your "PhD".
What's a "woo-woo" NG?
Jette Goldie
"Dr. Ewan Jackson" <ewanlo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:636415e9.02090...@posting.google.com...
How do you know it's not his real name? ;-)
(I know someone who was baptised "Sword of the Lord")
--
Jette
(aka Vinyaduriel)
"Work for Peace and remain fiercely loving" - Jim Byrnes
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://bosslady.tripod.com/fanfic.html
Aris Katsaris
> anon wrote:
>
> > Aren't you the tosser who used to troll in alt.fan.art-bell and other
woo-woo
> > newsgroups? Tell us all about your "PhD".
>
> What's a "woo-woo" NG?
I guess it's newsgroups that believe in woo-woo beliefs (astrology, healing
power
of crystals, homeopathy, etc, etc)
Aris Katsaris
coyotes rand mair fheal
wrote:
> anon wrote:
>
> > Aren't you the tosser who used to troll in alt.fan.art-bell and other
woo-woo
> > newsgroups? Tell us all about your "PhD".
>
> What's a "woo-woo" NG?
when you look into the usenet
the usenet looks into you
there are many dark places you dont want to know about
unless youre made of sterner stuff than you appear
Öjevind Lång
> In article <ca818bee.02090...@posting.google.com>,
> jero...@hotmail.com (Jerome Gregory) wrote:
[snip]
> > Hell yeah. "Dune" is almost as self-indulgent as LOTR.
>
> not as indulgent however as hot fudge and chopped nuts on frozen mashed
potatoes
> with whipped cream
> of wheat
Or a bottle of really cold raspberry soda on a hot summer day.
Öjevind
Bagronk the Happy Orc
my phone cable...
> I am well aware that this may be very disappointing to
> you, fans of the most self-indulgent "literature"
> ever committed to paper.
>
> to research their subjects, Tolkien exploited a
> loop-hole which allowed him to be lazy.
> The "fantasy" genre requires less talent than any
> other literary genre, and is the easiest thing
> in the world to write.
Yes, worthy Doctor, you are 100% right. Of course you're always right,
as a Doctor, and I would not dare dispute you. But in this case, I
back you totally.
Tolkien was _so_ lazy. It took him 17 years to write this scrappy
little novel. Fantasy is dumb. It has nothing to do with real life. If
only there ever was a book that could be 100% realistic, page for
page, word by word! But in these times, this isn't true even for the
telephone book. I tried to call Zbigniev, but failed. Surely the
number was faked.
Ahem. Yes. And Tolkien didn't do any research. How should he? He had
his head stuck in extinguished languages all the time. Old English.
Icelandic. Ha! How many people speak Icelandic in this world? One
hundred thousand? Useless. Tolkien should have studied Political
Economy instead. He should have written a report about the increase of
cows per farmer in rural England. Statistically, over the last 100
years. This would have been delighting!
Actually, why should anyone write a book that makes us laugh or cry
because of sheer beauty? Nothing but a waste of energy, that is. Both
writing it, and laughing and crying as well. What do we need these
muscles for in our face? Mobius syndrome is clean, energy-saving and
the next step in human evolution. I'll go and have my laughing muscles
operationally extracted.
You, Mr. Ewan Jackson, are a wise man, a Caller in the Dark for the
future, a savior of mankind, a prophet. I bow before your courage to
bring this message of Realism and Purism into this infested newsgroup
full of daydreamers and useless rubbish of society.
Thank you. Thank you so very much!
--
Baggy
You keep buying these things but you don't need them
But as long as you're comfortable it feels like freedom
(Billy Bragg, North Sea Bubble)
coyotes rand mair fheal
<ojevin...@swipnet.se> wrote:
but who deserves a raspberry?
Flame of the West
> > What's a "woo-woo" NG?
>
> I guess it's newsgroups that believe in woo-woo beliefs (astrology, healing
> power of crystals, homeopathy, etc, etc)
Thank you, but I've never heard of a "woo-woo" belief either.
Öjevind Lång
> The message <ca818bee.02090...@posting.google.com>
> from jero...@hotmail.com (Jerome Gregory) contains these words:
[snip]
> > I guess the main problem with Tolkien is the blatent racism which is
inherent
> > in his works.
>
> > Jerome
>
> No, if I were going to say that, I'd spell "blatant" correctly.
I think that the general skill of trolls here has decreased considerably of
late. There was a time when some really obnoxious trolls with a considerable
aptitude for their business were at large in the newsgroup. Come to think of
it, perhaps they still are; of course they are still in my killfile. Except
for the Google search man with the Spanish name, who has certain qualities,
after all. (Name him not!)
Öjevind
Troels Forchhammer
> > The message <ca818bee.02090...@posting.google.com>
> > from jero...@hotmail.com (Jerome Gregory) contains these words:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > I guess the main problem with Tolkien is the blatent racism
> > > which is inherent in his works.
>
> I think that the general skill of trolls here has decreased considerably of
> late. There was a time when some really obnoxious trolls with a considerable
> aptitude for their business were at large in the newsgroup. Come to think of
> it, perhaps they still are; of course they are still in my killfile. Except
> for the Google search man with the Spanish name, who has certain qualities,
> after all. (Name him not!)
I wouldn't call him a troll, though (even if I disagree with excessive use of
vulgar epithets ;-)
I do agree however that the latest incursion of trolls seem to show
a marked lack of skill and intelligence... <g>
--
Troels Forchhammer
Please reply to t.f...@mail.dk
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Hogfather)
Tamim
snip
> I wouldn't call him a troll, though
Of corse he's not a full time Troll but there's no doubt that he has
done some serious trolling after he left the groups. Calling RABT and
AFT flamegroups and flaming each and every participant collectively is
trolling, there's no doubt about that. But then on the other hand I did
some serious trolling also so I can't really blame him.
(even if I disagree with excessive use of
> vulgar epithets ;-)
> I do agree however that the latest incursion of trolls seem to show
> a marked lack of skill and intelligence... <g>
> --
> Troels Forchhammer
> Please reply to t.f...@mail.dk
> The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.
> -- (Terry Pratchett, Hogfather)
--
Morgil
coyotes rand mair fheal kirjoitti viestissä ...
LONE STARRR!!!
Morgil
(What would lone star be in Elvish?)
stark
> EJ, I can't say I like you much, but you nailed this asswipe. Nicely done.
Eek. Please find a way to quote messages... dunno what news reader you're
using.
And I love how you constantly swear at anyone you disagree with. I haven't
plonked you yet, since I'm not in a good mood, and your posts are good
punching bags. However, in this case, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you
were the one left looking like an idiot. I have a feeling the honors degree
is legit.
As for "Dr." Ewan's Ph.D, now that is one I'd like to see substantiated.
--
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