Robert Howard [longish]
Matt Gable
I sat down to read some of Robert Howard's stories, noticed some
striking similarities to The Lord of the Rings, and figured he was
another of the long list of fantasy authors influenced by Tolkien: but,
when I checked the copyright, it said 1932.
Either Tolkien read and used Howard's ideas, or they both had an earlier
source, because the similarities are unmistakeable. Here's a passage
from one story:
"I halted, flashing my light about. I was in a vast tunnel, not very
high of roof, but broad. Other smaller tunnels branched off from it and
I wondered at the network which apparently honeycombed the hills. I
cannot describe the grim, gloomy effect of those dark, low-roofed
corridors far below the earth. Over all hung an overpowering sense of
unspeakable antiquity." Cth, p. 164
Is that the feel of Moria, or isn't it? Here's another, even closer:
"'They fear you, O king! By the black secrets of R'lyeh, who are you
that Hell itself quails before you?'" Cth, p. 198
Compare it to this:
"At his command they fell back. 'Even the shades of Men are obedient to
his will' I thought. 'They may serve his needs yet!'" RotK, p. 151
And this:
"'Go back to Hell and take [the Black Stone] with you!' he yelled,
brandishing his clenched fists to the skies, as the thick shadows
receded, flowing back and away from him like the foul waters of some
black flood." Cth, p. 206
"'Go back and trouble not the valleys ever again! Depart and be at
rest!' And thereupon the King of the Dead stood out before the host and
broke his spear and cast it down. Then he bowed low and turned away; and
swiftly the whole grey host drew off and vanished like a mist that is
driven back by a sudden wind..." RotK, p. 153
So similar is Howard's King of Wales to Tolkien's King of Gondor and
Arnor that it's hard to believe this is a chance similarity. They even
both mention a Black Stone. Some of the most haunting and powerful
detail in LotR--the black threatening halls of Moria, the Paths of the
Dead, the aesthetic of hidden power shown clearly in the King in
exile--apparently comes straight from Cthulhu.
Maybe all this is well known, but it was surprising to me. I've never
seen Howard listed as an influence on Tolkien.
Anyone care to confirm or refute?
Gable
Cth: Howard, Robert E. 1987. Cthulhu: the mythos and kindred horrors.
Baen Publishing Enterprises: New York.
First citation from "People of the Dark," first published 1932
Second and third citations from "Worms of the Earth," first published 1932
RotK: Tolkien, J R R. 1965. The return of the King. 2nd ed. Houghton
Mifflin Company: Boston.
Both citations from ch. 9, "The Last Debate," written late 1940s.
Michael Martinez
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.971231...@bio4.acpub.duke.edu>, Matt
says...
>
>I sat down to read some of Robert Howard's stories, noticed some
>striking similarities to The Lord of the Rings, and figured he was
>another of the long list of fantasy authors influenced by Tolkien: but,
>when I checked the copyright, it said 1932.
>
>Either Tolkien read and used Howard's ideas, or they both had an earlier
>source, because the similarities are unmistakeable. Here's a passage
>from one story:
I doubt Tolkien could have been influenced by Howard, although Howard did
publish some stories in the UK before committing suicide in 1936. Tolkien
never mentions Howard in any of his published correspondence. He drops
the names of many authors, however. Tolkien seemed to favor the classics,
and in any event spent much of his free time with friends and associates
who were engaged in writing their own fantasies (C.S. Lewis being the
most well-known of these gentlemen, many of who were indeed published).
[citations snipped for brevity]
>So similar is Howard's King of Wales to Tolkien's King of Gondor and
>Arnor that it's hard to believe this is a chance similarity. They even
>both mention a Black Stone. Some of the most haunting and powerful
>detail in LotR--the black threatening halls of Moria, the Paths of the
>Dead, the aesthetic of hidden power shown clearly in the King in
>exile--apparently comes straight from Cthulhu.
>
>Maybe all this is well known, but it was surprising to me. I've never
>seen Howard listed as an influence on Tolkien.
Rarely does Howard come up in these groups (there is, btw, a Howard news
group -- alt.fantasy.howard, but a lot of the hard-core Howard fans fled
Usenet last year for a mailing list).
>Anyone care to confirm or refute?
I'm not well-enough versed in Howardian lore to really comment, but I do
recall that he had an extensive library and was quite fond of northern
mythology. It would appear that Howard and Tolkien often drew upon the
same sources.
--
\ / Worlds of Imagination on the Web
\/ Mic...@xenite.org
/\ Martinez <http://www.xenite.org/index.htm>
/ \ENITE.org................................................
Martin T. Kutschker
Matt Gable wrote:
>
> [very rude snip]
>
> --apparently comes straight from Cthulhu.
Can you tell me more about Cthulhu? I know the myth from Lovecraft's works. Is
there any external source for it?
Masi
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Martin Thomas Kutschker /\ "Nonetheless I shall grant thy prayer, |
| _____||_ and thou shall go to Eilinel, |
| _________/ | and be set free from my service." |
------------ \________________________________________+
William
Michael Martinez wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.971231...@bio4.acpub.duke.edu>, Matt
> says...
> >
> >I sat down to read some of Robert Howard's stories, noticed some
> >striking similarities to The Lord of the Rings, and figured he was
> >another of the long list of fantasy authors influenced by Tolkien: but,
> >when I checked the copyright, it said 1932.
> >
> >Either Tolkien read and used Howard's ideas, or they both had an earlier
> >source, because the similarities are unmistakeable. Here's a passage
> >from one story:
>
> I doubt Tolkien could have been influenced by Howard, although Howard did
> publish some stories in the UK before committing suicide in 1936. Tolkien
> never mentions Howard in any of his published correspondence. He drops
> the names of many authors, however. Tolkien seemed to favor the classics,
> and in any event spent much of his free time with friends and associates
> who were engaged in writing their own fantasies (C.S. Lewis being the
> most well-known of these gentlemen, many of who were indeed published).
>
One can't say for certain what Tolkien may have read, although I suspect that
Lovecraft and post-Lovecraft fell outside his range of sympathy. However, the
citations you post call to mind even more decidedly an authour who certainly was
an influence on Tolkien: H. Rider Haggard. Haggard may be the common source here.
William Cloud Hicklin