> I have not seen described how Sauron managed to take back the Nine. When
> in the presence of a Nazg l he was powerful enough to take it, whether the
> Nazg l liked it or not.
I prefer to believe "The Nine the Nazgul keep" literally.
He gave Great Rings of Power to kings who cherished power
and so ensnared them. Since Hobbits are akin to Men,
if the Dark Lord had given one of the Nine to Lotho Pimple
he would have aspired to more than mere Thane of the Shire,
he would probably have coveted all the long leagues
of Eriador to govern.
It's true there are some apparent contradictions, such as
Galadriel telling Frodo, "You saw the Eye of him that holds
the Seven and the Nine." And I can't explain why no Ring
was found on the field at Pelennor after Merry and Eowyn
offed Number One.
But in a way it doesn't really matter who actually has
physical possession; Sauron controls the Ringwraiths and
that's what counts.
>> I have not seen described how Sauron managed to take back the Nine. When
>> in the presence of a Nazg l he was powerful enough to take it, whether
>> the
>> Nazg l liked it or not.
> I prefer to believe "The Nine the Nazgul keep" literally.
> He gave Great Rings of Power to kings who cherished power
> and so ensnared them.
I agree with Raven. We see evidence for this when Frodo threatens to put on the Ring and command Gollum to kill himself. They both know Gollum would be forced to obey. This is because Gollum is enslaved to the One Ring, and its bearer may command its slaves.
If Gollum had attacked Sam while Sam had the Ring, Sam could have commanded Gollum. However, I suspect that Sam hadn't had it long enough to use it for command. Frodo had possessed it for years, and was deep in its power. Sam barely scratched the surface.
So Sauron must command the Ringwraiths because he possesses the Nine. He can't use those rings to create more Ringwraiths without losing control over those he already has to whoever has the ring that Ringwraith is subject to. And he can't command a wearer of one of the Nine without the One.
So, the summary of my analysis. Wearing the One lets you command anyone wearing another Ring. The Seven, Nine, and One eventually enslave their wearers to themselves, and new wearers can command those slaves. In any case you need sufficient stature and power to command anyone. Dwarves seem to be immune to enslavement, though they experience other effects.
Pondering: are the Seven and the Nine interchangeable, or is a slave to one of them only a slave to that particular ring? "Give us back our ring! No, not that one, the other one!" Can someone wearing one of them command someone enslaved to another ring? If Gandalf had gotten Thrain's ring, could he have commanded the Ringwraiths with it? (I don't think so; I think each ring has power over only its own wearers.)
On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 18:22:34 -0400, David Trimboli wrote:
> So, the summary of my analysis. Wearing the One lets you command anyone > wearing another Ring.
Eventually, yes. But remember the Letters, where Tolkien says that if Gollum hadn't interfered and the Nazg l had reached the Cracks of Doom, they would have *pretended* to obey Frodo, lured him out of the Sammath Naur, blocked the entrance, and waited for Sauron to come and take the Ring from Frodo.
It takes practice to learn to use the One for command. You can't just put it on, start issuing orders, and be mindlessly obeyed. Galadriel told Frodo this: "Before you could use that power you would need to ... train your will to the domination of others."
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 18:22:34 -0400, David Trimboli wrote:
>> So, the summary of my analysis. Wearing the One lets you command anyone
>> wearing another Ring.
> Eventually, yes. But remember the Letters, where Tolkien says that
> if Gollum hadn't interfered and the Nazg l had reached the Cracks of
> Doom, they would have *pretended* to obey Frodo, lured him out of the
> Sammath Naur, blocked the entrance, and waited for Sauron to come and
> take the Ring from Frodo.
> It takes practice to learn to use the One for command. You can't just
> put it on, start issuing orders, and be mindlessly obeyed. Galadriel
> told Frodo this: "Before you could use that power you would need to
> ... train your will to the domination of others."
Yes, I mentioned all that in the bit you cut from my message. You only quoted my summary.
