Elven armies at Helm's Deep? Sigh...
G. M. Watson
and they're an interesting mix, reflecting the thinking in this NG, ranging
from the "Jackson can do no wrong" school to we increasingly few, scattered
LOTR loyalists. Assuming that this report of an Elven army at Helm's deep is
true (no matter whether Galadriel or Arwen is leading it-- and given the
amount of hype surrounding Tyler's casting, which do you think is more
likely?), Jackson no longer can make any legitimate claim to artistic
integrity vis-a-vis the text. Those who think it would be cool to have an
army of ass-kickin'elves at Helm's Deep, and sneer at thos of us who are
dismayed at the news, understand-- or, like Jackson, care-- nothing about
the deeper themes in LOTR. Why the hell else was the army of Elendil and
Gil-Galad was called the "Last Alliance of elves and men"?? It wasn't, as
someone on AIC pointed out, the "Penultimate Alliance".
To belabor the obvious: The story makes explicitly clear that after the
terrible events which ended the Second Age, Elves and Men were sundered,
never again to join together, each increasingly fearful and distrustful of
the other. Hence the facilitation of the growing power of Sauron, already no
longer threatened by the power of the Numenoreans, now also unopposed by any
allied front of Middle-earth peoples. To have an Elven army, unbidden,
suddenly ride to the aid of their once-and-former, ancient allies is to
completely undermine and ignore 3000 years of Middle-earth history and
backstory. The wedding of Arwen and Aragorn briefly repaired the broken
link, but by then it was too late and thus the Fourth Age began. There are
tragic underpinnings to this story which are being completely lost sight of
in the filmed version.
So much for continuity, integrity, accuracy, or anything else besides giving
the biggest bang for the box-office bucks. There seem to be an awful lot of
people, including many on the NG, who don't give a damn what's done to the
story as long as they get 3 films full of wall-to-wall action. Given this, I
find it hard to understand why the bullet wasn't bitten Arnold
Schwarzenegger wasn't cast as Aragorn. He already has a nifty sword left
over from the Conan films and a few minor alterations to the Conan costumes
and he would have been all set. And wouldn't James Earl Jones make a dandy
Sauron (who, Jackson has apparently said, will now be a "character" in the
film-- whatever that means)? Certainly it now appears that Jackson and John
Milius have a lot in common, although Milius was always a lot more up-front
about his intentions when he was making a film.
If these trends continue, I think that the Tolkien estate should initiate
legal action against Jackson & Co. to make it clear that the film has little
to do with the novel known as "The Lord of the Rings" (yes, I suppose this
is a fantasy; even if they wanted to, the rights have been sold lock, stock
and barrel). "Inspired by the works of JRR Tolkien" would probably be OK;
certainly it would be prefeable to the outrageous and blatant lie that the
film's version of the story is faithful to the novel (sorry, but "faithful
to the spirit of the novel" doesn't cut it). What Jackson is apparently
doing now is far more reprehensible than simply dropping Bombadil or Fatty
Bolger. I wonder what he'll screw with next...
----------
In article <20000413215613...@ng-cg1.aol.com>, tsi...@aol.com
(TSignus) wrote:
> I recently read in "Ain't It Cool News" that an elf army will be at Helm's
> Deep. Anyone care to take a wager on this being Galadriel and the elves of
> Lorien. Seems PJ has decided to increase Galadriel's role too. Now it
appears
> the only woman in danger of being cut out of the combat action is Eowyn...
what
> irony!
>
> -TS
Mikko Mähönen
WOW!! Can't add anything to that, except that I agree to every word.
--
--== | Mikko the Man | == | mm...@mbnet.fi | ==--
--== | http://koti.mbnet.fi/~mman/index.html | ==--
Don Brinn
Integrity Petition's conditions are not meant, that the movie be official
referred to as "Inspired by JRR Tolkien's..." instead of simply "JRR
Tolkien's...".
Any thoughts on this? Anyone want to do this?
"G. M. Watson" wrote:
--
_________________________________________________
Don
Waterloo, Ontario
_________________________________________________
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur."
(Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)
Trinity
explained, only experienced:
>I suggest that we get together a "Inspired By" Petition, demanding that if the
>Integrity Petition's conditions are not meant, that the movie be official
>referred to as "Inspired by JRR Tolkien's..." instead of simply "JRR
>Tolkien's...".
>
>Any thoughts on this? Anyone want to do this?
I personally, think both petitions are quite silly. Do you really
think anyone will pay attention to them? (I'm not trying to flame, I'm
honestly curious how someone could think that these petitions would
actually be listened to. Hard-core, fanatical Tolkien fans do not make
up a large enough number to matter to the movie producers, I'm sure.)
--
Trinity
Come on and save me
From the ranks
Of the freaks
Who suspect
They could never love anyone
- "Save Me" - Aimee Mann
Don Brinn
> Unfortunately, Don Brinn <dkb...@ist.uwaterloo.ca> cannot be
> explained, only experienced:
>
> >I suggest that we get together a "Inspired By" Petition, demanding that if the
> >Integrity Petition's conditions are not meant, that the movie be official
> >referred to as "Inspired by JRR Tolkien's..." instead of simply "JRR
> >Tolkien's...".
> >
> >Any thoughts on this? Anyone want to do this?
>
> I personally, think both petitions are quite silly.
Honestly, I'm not sure whether or not I agree with you. But I certainly understand
why you think that.
> Do you really
> think anyone will pay attention to them?
No.
> (I'm not trying to flame, I'm
> honestly curious how someone could think that these petitions would
> actually be listened to. Hard-core, fanatical Tolkien fans do not make
> up a large enough number to matter to the movie producers, I'm sure.)
No, I don't think anyone (at least not anyone in a position to do anything about
it) will bother listening, and even if they do, they won't care enough to make
changes just for my (our) account.
But, it is a good way to vent. If these perceived problems in the movies turn out
to indeed be a big deal, we can at least feel we tried to do something. And if
they turn out to not detract from the movies, then heh! - maybe we made a
difference, or so we can tell ourselves.
Besides, no one really cares if I vote in governmental elections, and my one vote
will never make a difference. But I still always do vote, and I would hope that at
least most people reading this newsgroup wouldn't call that silly.
> --
> Trinity
>
> Come on and save me
> From the ranks
> Of the freaks
> Who suspect
> They could never love anyone
>
> - "Save Me" - Aimee Mann
--
G. M. Watson
petition by JRRT loyalists ("fanatics"?!? Come off it!!) New Line will
immediately suspend production until Christopher Tolkien can be retained as
principal story consultant, but what the hell, it would give us a chance to
vent somewhere besides this turbulent NG...
----------
In article <38F7216C...@ist.uwaterloo.ca>, Don Brinn
<dkb...@ist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> I suggest that we get together a "Inspired By" Petition, demanding that if the
> Integrity Petition's conditions are not meant, that the movie be official
> referred to as "Inspired by JRR Tolkien's..." instead of simply "JRR
> Tolkien's...".
>
> Any thoughts on this? Anyone want to do this?
(snip)
Trinity
explained, only experienced:
<snip>
>
>No, I don't think anyone (at least not anyone in a position to do anything about
>it) will bother listening, and even if they do, they won't care enough to make
>changes just for my (our) account.
ok....
>
>But, it is a good way to vent. If these perceived problems in the movies turn out
>to indeed be a big deal, we can at least feel we tried to do something. And if
>they turn out to not detract from the movies, then heh! - maybe we made a
>difference, or so we can tell ourselves.
hmmmm...just seems like it's a bit like standing behind a painter who
has been inspired to paint a landscape based on Tolkien's work and
telling them "use more yellow here! Tolkien would want more yellow
here!"
I mean, it's the painter's painting. they should be allowed to paint
whatever they want! Even if it has been inspired by something we both
love and respect.
I don't know that much about painting, and I really don't know that
much about movie making either, so i'd feel pretty silly being that
critical.
I'd especially feel silly being that critical while the painter has
only just started the painting :)
>Besides, no one really cares if I vote in governmental elections, and my one vote
>will never make a difference. But I still always do vote, and I would hope that at
>least most people reading this newsgroup wouldn't call that silly.
>
I don't think voting in elections is quite the same thing as filling
out a petition. The only way I can express my opinion on this is to
*not* sign the petition. Voting doesn't work in that way.
Alan Graham
Trinity wrote in message ...
>
>>Besides, no one really cares if I vote in governmental elections, and my
one vote
>>will never make a difference. But I still always do vote, and I would
hope that at
>>least most people reading this newsgroup wouldn't call that silly.
>>
>
>I don't think voting in elections is quite the same thing as filling
>out a petition. The only way I can express my opinion on this is to
>*not* sign the petition. Voting doesn't work in that way.
I think, from the point of view of New Line the facts speak for themselves
1.7million downloads vs 10,000 signitures on the petition.
I also think from the outset, whoever crunched the numbers would have
allowed for fans who feel "cheated" by this version not going to see it -
but from their cold "accountancy" world this means little compared to the
many Tolkien fans who'll probably see iot whatever.
Moreover, them vehemently against will probably eventually see the film -
either by renting out the DVD or on a TV showing, so the numbers still
favour New Line.
In the Grand New Line view, even the most successful of the online petitions
are pretty much small-fry.
Al
G. M. Watson
original, or at least an original interpretation of a given theme. And
certainly if an up-and-coming painter was to reinterpret a well-known work
by a world-famous artist-- say Picasso, Bacon, Chagall, or whoever-- it
would be crass indeed for them to promote the work using the famous
artist's name in letters ten times as high as their own. That's what Elvis
impersonators do. Yet Peter Jackson and New Line are doing just that, and no
wonder. You think Jackson would be given a $300 mill budget for three
original projects he'd developed himself? Get serious. This picture is being
marketed as "LORD OF THE RINGS" directed by Peter Jackson, not "PETER
JACKSON DIRECTS lordoftherings". The man isn't a player, yet, tho this
abortion will probably make him one. He's nowhere near well-known enough for
astudio to sell a film on his name alone. Accordingly, the LOTR film is the
painter's painting only insofar as he and his bosses are providing the paint
and employing the painting crew.
What I object to is that he seems to think he's qualified-- seems to think
it's actually appropriate-- to change the story into something it isn't.
Peter Jackson would be looking for work right now (or, having found it, be
working with a far smaller budget) were it not for a certain long-dead
Oxford don. You'd think he'd show more gratitude and a hell of a lot more
respect. I will be most intertested to see whose name is bigger on the
poster, Jackson's or Tolkien's.
----------
In article <op2mfs0m5adln28l6...@4ax.com>, Trinity
<lafo...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
> hmmmm...just seems like it's a bit like standing behind a painter who
> has been inspired to paint a landscape based on Tolkien's work and
> telling them "use more yellow here! Tolkien would want more yellow
> here!"
>
> I mean, it's the painter's painting. they should be allowed to paint
> whatever they want! Even if it has been inspired by something we both
> love and respect.
>
> I don't know that much about painting, and I really don't know that
> much about movie making either, so i'd feel pretty silly being that
> critical.
>
> I'd especially feel silly being that critical while the painter has
> only just started the painting :)
>
>>
> Trinity