ANGER at "so called" SM Fans
Bob Terrell
>
> <miaka...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >And if you have the Fansubs, and know how the
> >original is, then just keep your tv off cartoon network, and pop out
> >those tapes. Its not like anyone is forcing you to watch it.
>
> This makes it less of a hatchet job how?
Because it proves you're not doing anything to stop it.
> > IT SICKENS me, I see it, EVERYDAY on message boards, on web sites,
> >EVERYWHERE, I see people criticizing others for their opinions.
>
> But wait! What are you doing?
How do you make a room go quiet? Yelling "Shut up!" usually works.
> >or names are changed. Around the world you see that we all have
> >different languages, different religions, different skin colors, and so
> >obviously names, and attack names will be different in the US.
>
> I must say, I'm missing how the former part of that relates to the latter
> part. I certainly don't see how deliberately Americanising Sailor Moon in
> order to aboid being exposed to a different culture has very much to do
> with the cultural tolerance you seem to be expousing.
So let me get this straight. Say I go to another country, and they can't
pronounce my name. I should be upset at them because they don't want to expose
themselves to another culture?
> >is named Mini Moon. So I accept that. Its all the SAME. I hate how we
> >FINALLY got the S Season dubbed here in the US and STILL many people
> >complain and BITCH b/c of the changes. ITS STUPID! They asked for more
> >so they should be HAPPY!
>
> Many of the people here have not asked for more. The impression I get is
> that the American entertainment industry want to keep cranking out the
> same old dross; if the result is going to be American-style cartoons
> anyway I would much rather they did the whole thing themselves than
> mangled existing works from other cultures.
Yeah, I guess you're right. All Sailor Moon sucks.
> >And obviously in the US this is a KIDS show,
> >so they are going to make it based on what kids (who have never seen
> >the original nor care) like.
>
> Respect for the integrity of the original work? Naaah.
When the original work would cause public outrage in the target audience's
parents? I don't think so. I know, let's all teach our children to go around
swearing, engaging in sexual banter, and developing gay relationships. Oh
wait, that's "genetic", isn't it?
You know, you're right. We should expose our children to absolutely everything
that adults are entitled to. X-rated movies are no big deal. A 7-year old
could get a job in the workplace. When kids run away from home, why not lock
them out?
> In the UK, we went through this in the 19th century, with Bowdlerisation
> of older works to fit the sensibilities of the Victorian audience; since
> then there's been a realisation that it's not ultimately sensible to adapt
> everything in sight to meet your current set of prejudices.
Aren't you prejudiced against people who don't like SM? Or would you prefer to
call it something else. Maybe you shouldn't make fun of other people's beliefs
and moral values if you don't have any.
> >We all take it differently. And do you really think
> >that all these flames going around would be the way Naoko would have
> >wanted it? I think not.
>
> "Trustworthy Hagii-aniki: I'm sure I could make my partner come three times
> with one screw.
> Naoko: Well then, I'll have to see once... Or not..."
>
> Naoko's not quite the delicate little flower...
Yeah. If we all got along, that would really be a shame.
--
Bob
IQ2GI2
--
Robert Hutchinson
>
> David Damerell wrote:
> >
> > <miaka...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > >or names are changed. Around the world you see that we all have
> > >different languages, different religions, different skin colors, and so
> > >obviously names, and attack names will be different in the US.
> >
> > I must say, I'm missing how the former part of that relates to the latter
> > part. I certainly don't see how deliberately Americanising Sailor Moon in
> > order to aboid being exposed to a different culture has very much to do
> > with the cultural tolerance you seem to be expousing.
>
> So let me get this straight. Say I go to another country, and they can't
> pronounce my name. I should be upset at them because they don't want to expose
> themselves to another culture?
There's a very generic "they" in your example, as well as your going to
another country being your choice while BSSM coming to America was "their"
choice. If you were invited to another country by a specific person, and this
person wanted to introduce you publically, and screwed up the pronunciation of
your name, or just gave you a random name common in their country ... might you
be a bit upset then?
> > >And obviously in the US this is a KIDS show,
> > >so they are going to make it based on what kids (who have never seen
> > >the original nor care) like.
> >
> > Respect for the integrity of the original work? Naaah.
>
> When the original work would cause public outrage in the target audience's
> parents? I don't think so. I know, let's all teach our children to go around
> swearing, engaging in sexual banter, and developing gay relationships. Oh
> wait, that's "genetic", isn't it?
For the first two, what show are you watching? And for the last one, I'd
love to know what you think heterosexuality is. (And all this outrage is
hypothetical second-guessing to begin with. Haven't seen one peep of outrage
over a certain superpowered kindergarteners' cartoon's sexual innuendo yet.)
> You know, you're right. We should expose our children to absolutely everything
> that adults are entitled to. X-rated movies are no big deal. A 7-year old
> could get a job in the workplace. When kids run away from home, why not lock
> them out?
"We" probably shouldn't be deciding what "we" should and shouldn't expose our
children to, as "we" have proven to be quite disagreeable over the matter. ("We"
being the general population, I'm assuming.)
Robert Hutchinson
k-chan
someone wrote:
>>When the original work would cause public outrage in the target audience's
parents? I don't think so. I know, let's all teach our children to go around
swearing, engaging in sexual banter, and developing gay relationships. Oh
wait, that's "genetic", isn't it?<<
<raises eyebrow> speaking from personal experiance (not that that would
probably make any smidgen of a difference or impression upon ye) the core of
sexuality is genetic. it doesn't mean people aren't free to make individual
choices, we all are, but i did not choose to be gay. i have absolutely no
regrets nor qualms about being a lesbian. if i could choose, i would choose
to be who i am now ^_^ as for teaching children ro swear, engage in sexual
banter and whatnot, heavens no O.O not that what we americans make is so pure
and sweet and innocent. dun make me gag. there are some things that aren't
appropriate for certain ages, true, but it is also more harmful to
irrationaly shelter our children from that which make us squirm in our
closeminded irrationality and ignorance. that isn't something that needs to
be passed down future generations, imo. and that applies to everything.
robert wrote:
>>For the first two, what show are you watching? And for the last one, I'd
love to know what you think heterosexuality is. (And all this outrage is
hypothetical second-guessing to begin with. Haven't seen one peep of
outrage over a certain superpowered kindergarteners' cartoon's sexual
innuendo yet.) <<
i'd hate to see that show, cause, heaven forbid, we humans, as sexual
human beings, ever express an individual sexuality O.o
might ye be referring to the sugar coated cotton candy "Powder Puke"
show? <gets nauseaus just thinking about it>
k-chan
i really shouldn't have to rant at 6:40 in the morning >.>
--
"Life is short. Eat Sushi ^_^" - me
"I journey on, ever believing that the person I will be
tomorrow is stronger than the person I am today." - Emeraldas
"Mmm... sweet bean roll..." - Ed
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Robert Hutchinson
> robert wrote:
> >>For the first two, what show are you watching? And for the last one, I'd
> love to know what you think heterosexuality is. (And all this outrage is
> hypothetical second-guessing to begin with. Haven't seen one peep of
> outrage over a certain superpowered kindergarteners' cartoon's sexual
> innuendo yet.) <<
>
> i'd hate to see that show, cause, heaven forbid, we humans, as sexual
> human beings, ever express an individual sexuality O.o
> might ye be referring to the sugar coated cotton candy "Powder Puke"
> show? <gets nauseaus just thinking about it>
No, I'm referring to the extremely witty and deserving-of-viewership show
"The Powerpuff Girls," where the sugar-coating is part of the joke. =P
Robert Hutchinson
Just part, mind you. Some of us have a bit of tolerance for sugar.
Princess Neko Tsukimi
who like the dub like the dub, those who like the sub like the sub... And who
says that the sub is always right and that the dub never is? Unless you can
understand Japanese and English both to native fluency, when you're watching
the dub, you're not really going to be able to really tell. Also, a phrase or
word could be interpreted many ways so the only person who could really know
the intensity or the correct meaning of the word is the original writer...
So... 'nuff said about that. The dub and sub of different anime have good
qualities and bad qualities each and it's up to the viewer to decide how they
are going to see it. Just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is the
perception of goodness... So, people needn't be telling other people that they
are losers just 'cos they like the dub. Sometimes, it may be the only way they
can get anime. Sometimes, they just may like it better. Nothing wrong with it.
And, you don't have to have seen the sub or original to be a "true" Sailormoon
fan and just because they like the dub doesn't mean that they're "so-called"
fans. Anyway, who makes the rules of fandom? You just have to like something to
be a fan. I'm a fan of rainy days... It may not be the purest form of rain that
I like but I'm still a fan. Oh well, 'nuff said for all of this. Pardon the
spelling and the AOL domain
Neko-chan
http://tsukimi.freeservers.com
-------------------------------------
I am Neko Tsukimi
The naive cat watching the moon
I'm childlike and I know
But give me a chance
-------------------------------------
David Damerell
>David Damerell wrote:
>><miaka...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>And if you have the Fansubs, and know how the
>>>original is, then just keep your tv off cartoon network, and pop out
>>>those tapes. Its not like anyone is forcing you to watch it.
>>This makes it less of a hatchet job how?
>Because it proves you're not doing anything to stop it.
What could I do to stop it? I'm not even in the same country.
Furthermore, stick to the point. I could (if I had a million dollars)
offer to pay it to CN not to run the dub of Sailor Moon. That wouldn't
make it less of a hatchet job; so what's your point?
>>> IT SICKENS me, I see it, EVERYDAY on message boards, on web sites,
>>>EVERYWHERE, I see people criticizing others for their opinions.
>>But wait! What are you doing?
>How do you make a room go quiet? Yelling "Shut up!" usually works.
This is more like yelling "Stop shouting! I hate people who shout!"
>>I must say, I'm missing how the former part of that relates to the latter
>>part. I certainly don't see how deliberately Americanising Sailor Moon in
>>order to aboid being exposed to a different culture has very much to do
>>with the cultural tolerance you seem to be expousing.
>So let me get this straight. Say I go to another country, and they can't
>pronounce my name. I should be upset at them because they don't want to expose
>themselves to another culture?
If they deliberately mispronounce your name because they think American
names sound horrible, I think you might well be rather upset.
>>Many of the people here have not asked for more. The impression I get is
>>that the American entertainment industry want to keep cranking out the
>>same old dross; if the result is going to be American-style cartoons
>>anyway I would much rather they did the whole thing themselves than
>>mangled existing works from other cultures.
>Yeah, I guess you're right. All Sailor Moon sucks.
Where did I say that?
>>>so they are going to make it based on what kids (who have never seen
>>>the original nor care) like.
>>Respect for the integrity of the original work? Naaah.
>When the original work would cause public outrage in the target audience's
>parents? I don't think so. I know, let's all teach our children to go around
>swearing, engaging in sexual banter, and developing gay relationships. Oh
>wait, that's "genetic", isn't it?
Absolutely, yes, let's show our children a dedicated and loving lesbian
couple. It might cut down on the bigotry so prevalent in America.
>You know, you're right. We should expose our children to absolutely
>everything that adults are entitled to.
Where did I say that? Japanese children can watch Sailor Moon unmangled;
it doesn't seem to have blasted their tiny brains.
>>In the UK, we went through this in the 19th century, with Bowdlerisation
>>of older works to fit the sensibilities of the Victorian audience; since
>>then there's been a realisation that it's not ultimately sensible to adapt
>>everything in sight to meet your current set of prejudices.
>Aren't you prejudiced against people who don't like SM?
What if I am? You've got quite a way of asking important sounding
questions that have little to do with the discussion at hand.
[Let's suppose I am. How does that gel with my assertion that "it's not
ultimately sensible to adapt everything in sight to meet your current set
of prejudices"? That would imply that it's not sensible to force everyone
to collect Sailor Moon dolls and wear Sailor Moon t-shirts and write
letters to Naoko and so forth. I don't see any great logical inconsistency
here.]
>Maybe you shouldn't make fun of other people's beliefs
>and moral values if you don't have any.
Maybe I shouldn't. Maybe you shouldn't take walks outside if it's raining
elephants. But what do bogus hypothetical cases have to do with anything?
[If you mean I don't have typical Christian American beliefs and moral
values, so what? I'm not a Christian or an American.]
>Yeah. If we all got along, that would really be a shame.
How could we all get along? We could start by not accusing each other of
having no moral values...
--
dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk T000B320O500T000N230O500T000L000D510G653I500
T000V430H600T000T000V453S530A530T000D625T000B453T000E200T300S500A530T000V220
A530T000S525A530T000L500O500L500T200I200T000F462T000C415H532A554F400F650T000
A554G453I500T000V430H600T000T000V453S530G520R530A530A653A530A653A530A653A530
DOSIUS
And some of us don't. That show just -- ** SUCKS ** -- .. I can't watch the
thing for ten SECONDS before I have to go to the bathroom and hang my head
over the toilet <ugh> it's THAT bad. Can you say "cheesy?" I knew you
could. <cough> -_-, -- Dosius - hobbyist computer programmer and translator
"Kompyuutaa-ni kawatte oshioki-yo!"
(I have my own free-mail site! Visit http://dosius.zzn.com for info)
DOSIUS
dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
> Bob Terrell <r...@tiac.net> wrote:
> >David Damerell wrote:
> >><miaka...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>>And if you have the Fansubs, and know how the
> >>>original is, then just keep your tv off cartoon network, and pop out
> >>>those tapes. Its not like anyone is forcing you to watch it.
> >>This makes it less of a hatchet job how?
> >Because it proves you're not doing anything to stop it.
>
>
> Furthermore, stick to the point. I could (if I had a million dollars)
> offer to pay it to CN not to run the dub of Sailor Moon. That wouldn't
> make it less of a hatchet job; so what's your point?
>
> >>>EVERYWHERE, I see people criticizing others for their opinions.
> >>But wait! What are you doing?
> >How do you make a room go quiet? Yelling "Shut up!" usually works.
>
>
> >>part. I certainly don't see how deliberately Americanising Sailor Moon in
> >>order to aboid being exposed to a different culture has very much to do
> >>with the cultural tolerance you seem to be expousing.
> >So let me get this straight. Say I go to another country, and they can't
> >pronounce my name. I should be upset at them because they don't want to expose
> >themselves to another culture?
>
> names sound horrible, I think you might well be rather upset.
>
> >>that the American entertainment industry want to keep cranking out the
> >>same old dross; if the result is going to be American-style cartoons
> >>anyway I would much rather they did the whole thing themselves than
> >>mangled existing works from other cultures.
> >Yeah, I guess you're right. All Sailor Moon sucks.
>
>
> >>>the original nor care) like.
> >>Respect for the integrity of the original work? Naaah.
> >When the original work would cause public outrage in the target audience's
> >parents? I don't think so. I know, let's all teach our children to go around
> >swearing, engaging in sexual banter, and developing gay relationships. Oh
> >wait, that's "genetic", isn't it?
>
> couple. It might cut down on the bigotry so prevalent in America.
Absolutely right. Either that or the Moral Majority'd flame Cartoon Network
into oblivion, sue Cloverway, and ban Sailor Moon from the air...
>
> >You know, you're right. We should expose our children to absolutely
> >everything that adults are entitled to.
>
> Where did I say that? Japanese children can watch Sailor Moon unmangled;
> it doesn't seem to have blasted their tiny brains.
No, Pokémon's "Porygon" episode did that.
>
> >>In the UK, we went through this in the 19th century, with Bowdlerisation
> >>of older works to fit the sensibilities of the Victorian audience; since
Yeah, Bowdler's "Family Shakespeare."
> >>then there's been a realisation that it's not ultimately sensible to adapt
> >>everything in sight to meet your current set of prejudices.
> >Aren't you prejudiced against people who don't like SM?
>
> What if I am? You've got quite a way of asking important sounding
> questions that have little to do with the discussion at hand.
>
> [Let's suppose I am. How does that gel with my assertion that "it's not
> ultimately sensible to adapt everything in sight to meet your current set
> of prejudices"? That would imply that it's not sensible to force everyone
> to collect Sailor Moon dolls and wear Sailor Moon t-shirts and write
> letters to Naoko and so forth. I don't see any great logical inconsistency
> here.]
>
> >Maybe you shouldn't make fun of other people's beliefs
> >and moral values if you don't have any.
>
> Maybe I shouldn't. Maybe you shouldn't take walks outside if it's raining
> elephants. But what do bogus hypothetical cases have to do with anything?
>
> [If you mean I don't have typical Christian American beliefs and moral
> values, so what? I'm not a Christian or an American.]
>
> >Yeah. If we all got along, that would really be a shame.
>
> How could we all get along? We could start by not accusing each other of
> having no moral values...
> --
> dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk T000B320O500T000N230O500T000L000D510G653I500
> T000V430H600T000T000V453S530A530T000D625T000B453T000E200T300S500A530T000V220
> A530T000S525A530T000L500O500L500T200I200T000F462T000C415H532A554F400F650T000
> A554G453I500T000V430H600T000T000V453S530G520R530A530A653A530A653A530A653A530
>
--
Touga no Miko and her Touga pwushie
I thought I plonked this thread.
~TnM
Still here.
SP FAQ: http://www.spfc.org/band/faq.html
Shiori Death Advocates member & AFU no Touga
Webpage:http://redrival.com/tnm
"lalalalalalalalalaLAlalalalalala..."
~Cathy belting out Glass' Theme
Robert Hutchinson
> And some of us don't. That show just -- ** SUCKS ** -- .. I can't watch the
> thing for ten SECONDS before I have to go to the bathroom and hang my head
> over the toilet <ugh> it's THAT bad. Can you say "cheesy?" I knew you
> could. <cough> -_-,
Somehow, this doesn't exactly discourage me. More like encouragement, really.
Robert Hutchinson
Can you say "parody?"
DOSIUS
David Damerell
>dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
>>Bob Terrell <r...@tiac.net> wrote:
>>>David Damerell wrote:
>>Absolutely, yes, let's show our children a dedicated and loving lesbian
>>couple. It might cut down on the bigotry so prevalent in America.
>Absolutely right. Either that or the Moral Majority'd flame Cartoon Network
>into oblivion, sue Cloverway, and ban Sailor Moon from the air...
They're not a majority, you know. You don't actually have to let them run
the country; and they certainly can't have something banned.
[Also, there's nothing you can point to to say that Haruka and Michiru are
lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it, so
can the moral minority.]
>>>>In the UK, we went through this in the 19th century, with Bowdlerisation
>>>>of older works to fit the sensibilities of the Victorian audience; since
>Yeah, Bowdler's "Family Shakespeare."
Quite so. I think it's exactly like what's being done to anime now in the
US; and I'm proud that (at least to a degree) British culture recognises
it as a bad thing.
>Dosius - hobbyist computer programmer and translator
Any chance you could trim the quoted text?
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ w.sp.lic.#pi<largestprime>.2106
|___| Consenting Mercrediphile. Bev White's answer to |___|
| | | Next attempt to break the world in progress Andrew S. Damick | | |
DOSIUS
> >Absolutely right. Either that or the Moral Majority'd flame Cartoon
Network
> >into oblivion, sue Cloverway, and ban Sailor Moon from the air...
>
run
> the country; and they certainly can't have something banned.
>
> [Also, there's nothing you can point to to say that Haruka and Michiru
are
> lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it,
so
> can the moral minority.]
>
Watch "SEIYA to Usagi-no DOKI-DOKI DEETO" in SailorStars.
> >>>>In the UK, we went through this in the 19th century, with
Bowdlerisation
> >>>>of older works to fit the sensibilities of the Victorian audience;
since
> >Yeah, Bowdler's "Family Shakespeare."
>
> Quite so. I think it's exactly like what's being done to anime now in
the
> US; and I'm proud that (at least to a degree) British culture
recognises
> it as a bad thing.
>
> >Dosius - hobbyist computer programmer and translator
>
> Any chance you could trim the quoted text?
Occasionally I do.
> --
> David/Kirsty Damerell.
dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/
w.sp.lic.#pi<largestprime>.2106
> |___| Consenting Mercrediphile. Bev White's answer to
|___|
> | | | Next attempt to break the world in progress Andrew S. Damick
| | |
>
--
Robert Hutchinson
>
> Robert Hutchinson wrote:
[Powerpuff Girls, although it strangely veered back on-topic]
> > Can you say "parody?"
>
> Yeah, but "high quality fandub" sounds better to me.
I noticed.
Robert Hutchinson
Can you say "unintentional parody?"
Robert Hutchinson
(As well as some other people. Please try to leave in attribution.)
> > >Absolutely right. Either that or the Moral Majority'd flame Cartoon
> > >Network into oblivion, sue Cloverway, and ban Sailor Moon from the air...
> >
> > They're not a majority, you know. You don't actually have to let them run
> > the country; and they certainly can't have something banned.
> >
> > [Also, there's nothing you can point to to say that Haruka and Michiru are
> > lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it, so
> > can the moral minority.]
>
> Watch "SEIYA to Usagi-no DOKI-DOKI DEETO" in SailorStars.
Usagi thinks they're pigeons. They do get as skinny as birds about ten episodes
later ...
That's innuendo, blindingly obvious to the open-minded, but not necessarily
something a group of concerned morons can point to and cry "Evil gay promotion!"
Which was David's point, I believe.
> > Any chance you could trim the quoted text?
>
> Occasionally I do.
Occasionally I let flippancy like that pass.
Robert Hutchinson
corwin_...@my-deja.com
Robert Hutchinson <ser...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snipped>
> >
> > i'd hate to see that show, cause, heaven forbid, we humans, as
sexual
> > human beings, ever express an individual sexuality O.o
> > might ye be referring to the sugar coated cotton candy "Powder
Puke"
> > show? <gets nauseaus just thinking about it>
>
> No, I'm referring to the extremely witty and deserving-of-viewership
show
> "The Powerpuff Girls," where the sugar-coating is part of the joke. =P
>
> Robert Hutchinson
> Just part, mind you. Some of us have a bit of tolerance for sugar.
When it comes to a question of tolerance and the quality of Sailor Moon,
including the new episodes, I'm really beginning to wonder.
As I see it, Sailor Moon fans have had a rather baleful attitude (and
that includes myself) towards the disregard with which the series has
been treated. Mind you, we can't forget how hard it can be to remove
socially delicate sexual content (whether talk, action, or innuendo)
without reducing a series to its component plot elements.
Having recently gotten into Card Captor Sakura, Escaflone (sp!! sorry),
and having moved beyond Pokemon and Digimon (which never really held my
interest), I've seen varying levels of quality in terms of voice acting,
writing, and artistry.
Artistry out of the question, Card Captor Sakura (and this can be
argued) seems to be well translated, well designed (the costumes are
just fantastic), and well acted. Sailor Moon, on the other hand, suffers
from voice acting faws and translaction hitches. Mind you, we all know
this is largely due to the alteration of the original series for a
child's market (which, in my view, was a mistake. The smart thing to
have done would have just released it... OVA? Not sure if that's the
right term. It shouldn't have made the television market, but because
the execs are starving... we all know they are, we're lumped with a
"less-than-perfect" series. Though I will admit I am happy to have new
episodes released... it IS thrilling).
In reality, it's all very simple. We're stuck with what we've got
because they're money grubbing twerps, who, realistically may be trying
to please us, but what would you do when pressured by your boss to
merely produce?
Let's just take what we've got and let them know where it needs work!
It's *our* demand they're suppling, isn't it?
It doesn't have to be so silly.
P.S. Power Puff girls save the day! It's bloody nice to have such a
great series produced on this side of our shores! It's not often that we
get "girl power" cartoons nowadays, and sometimes, as in this case, it's
worth it.
Besides, it's a fun show!!
David Damerell
>>[Also, there's nothing you can point to to say that Haruka and Michiru are
>>lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it, so
>>can the moral minority.]
>Watch "SEIYA to Usagi-no DOKI-DOKI DEETO" in SailorStars.
I've seen all of Stars; I've seen the SS movie; I've seen the SS special.
There's nothing that proves it unequivocally (although the SS special
comes pretty close...)
>>Any chance you could trim the quoted text?
>Occasionally I do.
I mean, every article, like responsible people do. Without mangling lines
through bad wordwrapping - if you use Outlook, don't.
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
|___| fak...@chiark.greenend.org.uk exists only to discover senders |___|
| | | of UCE. Please do not mail it; you are likely to be blacklisted. | | |
k-chan
>>No, I'm referring to the extremely witty and deserving-of-viewership show
"The Powerpuff Girls," where the sugar-coating is part of the joke. =P <<
that may very well be, but it's still not for me >P
>>Just part, mind you. Some of us have a bit of tolerance for sugar.<<
<chuckles> hey now, i have sugar tolerance ^_^ for example, i LOVE the
anime Tenshi Ni Narumon ^^ totemo kawaii ^^
k-chan
in serious tenshi withdrawal O.o
--
"Life is short. Eat Sushi ^_^" - me
"I journey on, ever believing that the person I will be
tomorrow is stronger than the person I am today." - Emeraldas
"Mmm... sweet bean roll..." - Ed
DOSIUS
dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
<cut>
> >>Any chance you could trim the quoted text?
> >Occasionally I do.
>
> I mean, every article, like responsible people do. Without mangling
lines
> through bad wordwrapping - if you use Outlook, don't.
k-chan
>>And some of us don't. That show just -- ** SUCKS ** -- .. I can't watch the
thing for ten SECONDS before I have to go to the bathroom and hang my
head over the toilet <ugh> it's THAT bad. Can you say "cheesy?" I knew you
could. <cough> -_-, <<
obviously you can ;P
robert wrote:
>>Somehow, this doesn't exactly discourage me. More like encouragement,
really. Can you say "parody?"<<
now, while i'm not a fan of the power puff, i do so love Dexters Lab and
Johnny Bravo. both are a riot and always have me in stitches ^o^ i would love
to see a compilation of both shows released on DVD.
<chuckles> and if johnny bravo isn't a parody of every male stereotype
genre, then i dun know what is :P
laughing just thinking about em ^^
k-chan
--
"Life is short. Eat Sushi ^_^" - me
"I journey on, ever believing that the person I will be
tomorrow is stronger than the person I am today." - Emeraldas
"Mmm... sweet bean roll..." - Ed
Gramarye
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:cik*kx...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> DOSIUS <st...@dosius.zzn.com> wrote:
> >dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
> >>Bob Terrell <r...@tiac.net> wrote:
> >>>David Damerell wrote:
> >>Absolutely, yes, let's show our children a dedicated and loving lesbian
> >>couple. It might cut down on the bigotry so prevalent in America.
> >Absolutely right. Either that or the Moral Majority'd flame Cartoon
Network
> >into oblivion, sue Cloverway, and ban Sailor Moon from the air...
>
> the country; and they certainly can't have something banned.
>
> lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it, so
> can the moral minority.]
Actually, Naoko Takeuchi herself said so. There's a link to an interview
with her floating around somewhere, where she specifically states that they
are indeed lesbians (try Deja, I'm sure it's there somewhere). Argue about
the subtext all you want, but when the creator of the manga that spawned the
anime says so, I'd take it as the truth.
I'm not trying to be deliberately contradictory, but I'd take Naoko-sensei's
word over all of the subtext there is.
<snip rest>
--
Gramarye
afu no mamiya - teach us to care and not to care
I never said I wasn't evil....
Visit my website:
http://gramarye.homepage.com
Robert Hutchinson
>
> dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
> <cut>
> > >>Any chance you could trim the quoted text?
> > >Occasionally I do.
> >
> > I mean, every article, like responsible people do. Without mangling
> > lines through bad wordwrapping - if you use Outlook, don't.
>
Is that the same Deja with a message preview option, so you can see if the
lines are splitting?
Robert Hutchinson
Gramarye
> Gramarye <slg...@wm.edu> wrote:
> >David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> >>>dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
> >>>>Bob Terrell <r...@tiac.net> wrote:
> >>>>>David Damerell wrote:
> >>>>Absolutely, yes, let's show our children a dedicated and loving
lesbian
> >>>>couple. It might cut down on the bigotry so prevalent in America.
> >>>Absolutely right. Either that or the Moral Majority'd flame Cartoon
Network
> >>>into oblivion, sue Cloverway, and ban Sailor Moon from the air...
are
> >>lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it, so
> >>can the moral minority.]
> >Actually, Naoko Takeuchi herself said so.
>
I've
> known for years, like my name or my shoe size?
<clears throat> There's no need for sarcasm. I was merely trying to point
out concrete evidence that supports the relationship.
> You'll notice that I'm not disputing that they are lesbians, or that it
was
> blindingly obvious to anyone who doesn't have their head up their own arse
as
> far as SOS (long before Naoko said anything); all I'm saying is that you
can't
> watch Sailor Moon and say "there, that proves it" to someone who doesn't
want
> to believe it.
>
> [I might have known that if I tried to put across a complex concept like
"H&M
> are obviously a couple but not provably so from what we see on screen",
someone
> on afsm would read that as a simple concept like "H&M are not lesbians"
and
> respond to that.]
Exactly. I responded to the latter statement, and did not read deeply
enough into the post to justify the former statement.
In most shows, you can't prove anything. Argue the subtext all you want,
there really is no physical proof (pun intended) that H&M are lesbians. All
you have to go on is a relationship that is more than simple friendship, a
few choice comments ("I won't let you go tonight", "I like your hands", "I
never listen to that kind of talk outside of a bed"--to name a few), and
several touching, spoiler-laden scenes in S and Stars that point out more
than just a platonic relationship.
If it's physical proof you want, you won't get it. If it's an open "I love
you, Haruka/Michiru," you won't get it. And it might be difficult to prove
H&M's love to someone who wants to believe otherwise.
Point taken. Point conceded. <bows gracefully out>
David Damerell
>David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>>DOSIUS <st...@dosius.zzn.com> wrote:
>>>>Bob Terrell <r...@tiac.net> wrote:
>>>>>David Damerell wrote:
>>>>Absolutely, yes, let's show our children a dedicated and loving lesbian
>>>>couple. It might cut down on the bigotry so prevalent in America.
>>>Absolutely right. Either that or the Moral Majority'd flame Cartoon Network
>>>into oblivion, sue Cloverway, and ban Sailor Moon from the air...
>>lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it, so
>>can the moral minority.]
>Actually, Naoko Takeuchi herself said so.
Yes, thank you, I know that. Would anyone else like to tell me anything I've
known for years, like my name or my shoe size?
You'll notice that I'm not disputing that they are lesbians, or that it was
blindingly obvious to anyone who doesn't have their head up their own arse as
far as SOS (long before Naoko said anything); all I'm saying is that you can't
watch Sailor Moon and say "there, that proves it" to someone who doesn't want
to believe it.
[I might have known that if I tried to put across a complex concept like "H&M
are obviously a couple but not provably so from what we see on screen", someone
on afsm would read that as a simple concept like "H&M are not lesbians" and
respond to that.]
David Damerell
>David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>>Gramarye <slg...@wm.edu> wrote:
>>>David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>>>>can the moral minority.]
>>>Actually, Naoko Takeuchi herself said so.
>>Yes, thank you, I know that. Would anyone else like to tell me anything I've
>>known for years, like my name or my shoe size?
There's no need for chocolate, either, but it sure is fun.
>I was merely trying to point
>out concrete evidence that supports the relationship.
Is there _anyone_ on afsm - discounting the semiliterate idiot quotient -
who hasn't seen that Naoko interview?
>Point taken. Point conceded. <bows gracefully out>
Er, thank you.
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
|___| IV - A Discordian shall Partake of No Hot Dog Buns, for Such was the
| | | Solace of Our Goddess when She was Confronted with The Original Snub.
Meech
[snip]
> >>>>lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it, so
> >>>>can the moral minority.]
> >>>Actually, Naoko Takeuchi herself said so.
> >>Yes, thank you, I know that. Would anyone else like to tell me anything I've
> >>known for years, like my name or my shoe size?
> ><clears throat> There's no need for sarcasm.
>
> There's no need for chocolate, either, but it sure is fun.
>
> >I was merely trying to point
> >out concrete evidence that supports the relationship.
>
> Is there _anyone_ on afsm - discounting the semiliterate idiot quotient -
> who hasn't seen that Naoko interview?
I, for one, have not read that Naoko interview, nor show any interest
to.
Are going to categorize me as a 'semiliterate idiot' now?
Meech the Brown Hornet
Meech
[snip]
> > >>>>Absolutely, yes, let's show our children a dedicated and loving
> lesbian
> > >>>>couple. It might cut down on the bigotry so prevalent in America.
> > >>>Absolutely right. Either that or the Moral Majority'd flame Cartoon
> Network
> > >>>into oblivion, sue Cloverway, and ban Sailor Moon from the air...
> > >>[Also, there's nothing you can point to to say that Haruka and Michiru
> are
> > >>lesbians. It's blindingly obvious, but if SOS can fail to notice it, so
> > >>can the moral minority.]
> > >Actually, Naoko Takeuchi herself said so.
> >
> > Yes, thank you, I know that. Would anyone else like to tell me anything
> I've
> > known for years, like my name or my shoe size?
Gramy-chan, looks like your psychic mind-reading powers were a bit
frazzled this day. ^_^
> <clears throat> There's no need for sarcasm. I was merely trying to point
> out concrete evidence that supports the relationship.
There, there. Some of us still believe in civility in this NG, and
understand what you meant.
Meech the Brown Hornet
David Damerell
>David Damerell wrote:
>>Is there _anyone_ on afsm - discounting the semiliterate idiot quotient -
>>who hasn't seen that Naoko interview?
>I, for one, have not read that Naoko interview, nor show any interest
>to.
>Are going to categorize me as a 'semiliterate idiot' now?
Well, your grammar is pretty awful.
[But, no, I'm not. You know what she says, I presume.]
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
|___| I was wrong. I was wrong to ever doubt. I can get along without. |___|
| | | I can love my fellow man. But I'm damned if I'll love yours.[AE] | | |
Kaitou Ace
this, in alt.fan.sailor-moon
>Yes, thank you, I know that. Would anyone else like to tell me anything
>I've known for years, like my name or my shoe size?
>
>You'll notice that I'm not disputing that they are lesbians, or that it
>was blindingly obvious to anyone who doesn't have their head up their
>own arse as far as SOS (long before Naoko said anything); all I'm saying
>is that you can't watch Sailor Moon and say "there, that proves it" to
>someone who doesn't want to believe it.
>
>[I might have known that if I tried to put across a complex concept like
>"H&M are obviously a couple but not provably so from what we see on
>screen", someone on afsm would read that as a simple concept like "H&M
>are not lesbians" and respond to that.]
Just to jump in here, I have spent a *week* once trying to prove the fact that
H&M are indeed a lesbian couple to a fairly closeminded fan of the show, even
quoting the Naoko interview. Aside from failing to notice any possible hints of
a homosexual relationship, he told me that his view was factual and what I was
saying was pure unbased conjecture and he felt that it would be pointless to
continue the conversation with me further.
Kaitou Ace
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David Damerell
>On 27 Sep 2000, dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (David Damerell) wrote
>>was blindingly obvious to anyone who doesn't have their head up their
>>own arse as far as SOS (long before Naoko said anything); all I'm saying
>that H&M are indeed a lesbian couple to a fairly closeminded fan of the
>show, even quoting the Naoko interview. Aside from failing to notice any
>possible hints of a homosexual relationship, he told me that his view
>was factual and what I was saying was pure unbased conjecture and he
>felt that it would be pointless to continue the conversation with me further.
I believe you, but I don't believe this disproves my belief that it's
blindingly obvious to anyone who's not an idiot. The two most common
things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity, after all...
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
|___| You bought a mask: I put it on: you never thought to ask me if I wear
| | | it when you're gone. The Sisters of Mercy: When You Don't See Me.
Glen A. Pearce
Bob Terrell <r...@tiac.net> wrote:
> You know, you're right. We should expose our children to
> absolutely everything that adults are entitled to. X-rated
> movies are no big deal. A 7-year old could get a job in the
> workplace.
Actually sometimes 7 year olds might do a good job of something
simply because they haven't learned the wrong way to do it yet. ^_^
Once when I had a paper route (back when I was 17) there was a day
when I wanted to get the route done faster so I hired a 4 year old
to help me. (Ovbviously he couldn't carry the big bag of papers but
I could hand him one or 2 at a time that he could run up to a house
which did save some time.) Some practical limitations apply but I
don't think anyone should be denied access to free enterprise on the
basis of their age.
As for the issue of what's viewable the policy I run with my fansub
distribution is that if I don't think I can offer something to
everybody (or at least describe it well enough so they can decided
for themselves if they want to watch it) I don't think I should offer
it to anybody. I maintain a policy of no age discrimination because
that's what I wanted when I was a kid and I actually remember that.
If you really think kids shouldn't see something why should you
watch it yourself? ^_-
--
Glen A. Pearce
Do you like St. Tail? Then you'll also like Cat's Eye!
See my expanded listings page in the Team Abcb section:
http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~glenap/anime_tapes.html#abcb
Glen A. Pearce
>>> I must say, I'm missing how the former part of that relates to
>>> the latter part. I certainly don't see how deliberately
>>> Americanising Sailor Moon in order to aboid being exposed to
>>> a different culture has very much to do with the cultural
>>> tolerance you seem to be expousing.
>> So let me get this straight. Say I go to another country, and
>> they can't pronounce my name. I should be upset at them because
>> they don't want to expose themselves to another culture?
>
> If they deliberately mispronounce your name because they think
> American names sound horrible, I think you might well be rather
> upset.
I know some people throw a snit fit if someone gets the tinyest
thing worng with their name. It's especially funny when somebody
who's name is a mile (Oh wait! I'm in Canada that should be 1.66
Kilometers. ^_-) long and pronounced nothing like how it's spelled
flips out. (Like as if someone is going to get it right the first
time!) Personally if somebody mangles my name I consider it a big
joke, so far people have called me Clem, Len, Greg, and even Jed.
(Apparently this one guy thought I "looked like a Jed". ^_^)
--
Glen A. Pearce
(AKA Clem Feirce ^_-)
Glen A. Pearce
DOSIUS <st...@dosius.zzn.com> wrote:
>In article <ynt*2x...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
><cut>
>>>Occasionally I do.
>>
>>I mean, every article, like responsible people do. Without
>>mangling lines through bad wordwrapping - if you use Outlook,
I use deja, but I usually manually clean up the line breaks to
make it easier for the reader to follow. (Like I did with this
post. ^_-)
--
Glen A. Pearce
Do you like St. Tail? Then you'll also like Cat's Eye!
See my expanded listings page in the Team Abcb section:
http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~glenap/anime_tapes.html#abcb
Glen A. Pearce
"Gramarye" <slg...@wm.edu> wrote:
> Actually, Naoko Takeuchi herself said so. There's a link
> to an interview with her floating around somewhere, where
> she specifically states that they are indeed lesbians (try
> Deja, I'm sure it's there somewhere). Argue about the
> subtext all you want, but when the creator of the manga that
> spawned the anime says so, I'd take it as the truth.
>
> I'm not trying to be deliberately contradictory, but I'd take
> Naoko-sensei's word over all of the subtext there is.
When I played this...
http://moonie.homeip.net/glenap/no_proof.wav
...for a freind of mine he said "that's more proof than Naoko
saying that they are". ^_^ (NOTE: It's not from the CWi dub. ^_-)
It's funnier if you see the picture that goes with it on my
no proof page:
http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~glenap/no_proof.html
Clicking on the pic of Neptune, Uranus, and Saturn will also bring
up the WAV file.
--
Glen A. Pearce
(An official AFSM smart ass. ^_-)