Mixx Boycott?
Brad Lascelle
> One entertaining thought that just sprung to mind ... after reading
> Small Girl's Ron Scovil interview, particularily the comments about
> his being the only real anime fan on the staff, and how the new
> management is primarily interested in mass market appeal and money...
I think it's important to clarify a few things on this point
you raise and delve into some of the meat of this issue. (For those
of you used to the typical newsgroup fluff, I promptly encourage you
to skip on to the next message of regurgitated mishmash.)
For starters, it is possible to have an interest in anime and
manga without necessarily having a grasp or a vested interest in the
loyal audience these industries have. Furthermore, I don't really
think it's possible to pursue a market of this kind (niche-based and
all) without having some fringe interest in the kind of product you're
producing... I'm sure that goes for Stuart Levy as well.
Now there's nothing wrong with exploring the mass market and
going for the big bucks. If Mixx were to boost circulation of their
upcoming Sailor Moon comic literally three or four fold over the
current circulation of MixxZine, then I'd be hard-pressed to argue
with the change in strategy... if the plans for heavy market
penetration are there. Of course, there has been no indication that
will be the case.
Secondly, it's not a requirement to forsake one's loyal
audience in order to pursue such a bold move. Nobody forced Stu to
pull Sailor Moon from MixxZine... and while the company line is that
they had received a wealth of complaints regarding the nature of the
content in Parasyte that such a change was unavoidable, other sources
from within the Mixx infrastructure have more or less rebuked that
claim as more or less a bunch of crap.
Nobody forced Stu to pull Sailor from MixxZine without any kind
of advance warning... not even an advance notice of a couple of issues
was given for those subscribers unfortunate enough to not have 'Net
access. There may be a policy in place to make subscription
transitions from MixxZine to Smile as smooth as possible... but this
still doesn't account for the three-year gap in storyline... or the
unavoidable predicament of being forced into subscribing to a comic in
order to continue following along with what's already been translated.
Of course, there are a number of other factors to consider as
well. Mixx will be expanding from one bi-monthly publication to three
ongoing magazines. They were taxed by deadlines and had a plethora of
distribution headaches through Diamond and to subscribers and they're
now expected to handle three times the load without an acting
vice-president to carry the load? Sounds like a headache waiting to
happen... particularly with a number of boycotts and irate fans
already chomping at the bit.
This one little detail will be of more interest than anything
else in the weeks and months to come.
> ... I wonder if that, when the OuterS turn up in SuperS, they'll be
> named Corinn, Nerissa and Celia? ;)
Considering the pronounced flexibility with regards to naming
conventions that Mixx has explored in the past, it'll be interesting
to see what kind of approach they take. It's anybody's guess at this
point in time as to what they'll wind up running with.
One other bit of news I'll throw out right now for those of you
still paying attention... reportedly Naoko Takeuchi's ComicCon
appearance drew roughly 1,000-1,400 people.
These are supposedly considered disappointing figures given
that Watase Yuu drew slightly more than that at AX in July, Sailor
Moon's relatively mainstream awareness, and the fact that ComicCon
draws roughly SEVEN times the number of people AnimeExpo traditionally
does.
Given the extensive promotion and long-term awareness for this
event, my only guess as to contributing factors to those poor results
would be San Diego's smaller market size, the hindrance of it not
being a centrally-accessible location (particularly with ComicCon
being sandwiched between two notable conventions in the Eastern
timezone), and Sailor Moon's lack of having a distinct and notable
impact in the United States as a whole (or at least to the point where
anybody watching the show regularly on the Cartoon Network had a clue
that the creator of the show was in town).
===
Brad Lascelle <pa...@negaverse.org> UIN#: 3724914
Anime North II -- Toronto August 22nd-23rd
MGHapyBuny
>One other bit of news I'll throw out right now for those of you
> still paying attention... reportedly Naoko Takeuchi's ComicCon
> appearance drew roughly 1,000-1,400 people.
>
> These are supposedly considered disappointing figures given
> that Watase Yuu drew slightly more than that at AX in July, Sailor
> Moon's relatively mainstream awareness, and the fact that ComicCon
> draws roughly SEVEN times the number of people AnimeExpo traditionally
> does.
>
> Given the extensive promotion and long-term awareness for this
> event, my only guess as to contributing factors to those poor results
> would be San Diego's smaller market size, the hindrance of it not
> being a centrally-accessible location (particularly with ComicCon
> being sandwiched between two notable conventions in the Eastern
> timezone), and Sailor Moon's lack of having a distinct and notable
> impact in the United States as a whole (or at least to the point where
> anybody watching the show regularly on the Cartoon Network had a clue
> that the creator of the show was in town).
>
>
The San Diego Comic Con International is the biggest comic convention in North
America and unfortunatly outshines all the anime conventions in North America.
Since it's more mainstream, more people show up, and therefore there's more
reconition for the guest stars. That's probably why Naoko was at the Comic con
and not an anime con.
On a personal note, there was alot less Sailormoon, let alone anime dealers at
the con this year. A lot of the bootleg and used manga dealers were missing
too. So the anime awareness at the comic con dealerwise has decreased. When i
went down there on Sunday and saw the small amount of SM merchandise i thought
that it was because all the SM fans that had come down here to see Naoko and
scarved up everything, but then i spoke to Beaman Co, and they said there
wasn't much here to begin with and in fact they were a little disappointed when
they walked around on Wednesday and didn't see much on the dealer's floor.
*sniff*
HB
On a happy OT note, i did get Kevin Smith's autograph on a really neato CLERKS
poster(whooohoooo!)They also debuted their Jay & Silent Bob action figures
which look pretty wicked.
HB
Brad Lascelle
> If anyone here was at SDCC and saw the comic they can tell you how
> horrid it actually looks alone. The cover was really ugly and
> didn't have a title on it at all. It was produced bone cheap.
> That was for one reason. People will want to buy something to have
> Takeuchi sign. Why not make some bucks on them in the process and
> not give them a real cover so it can be a real collectible?
> Uh because only comic book colllecters and anime fans would actually
> be interested in collecting something from someone that they liked.
I'm actually surprised Stu didn't try and milk more mileage out
of Naoko's signing sessions. When the North American VAs did their
brief run of appearances through 1996 and at CAX this summer, they
brought along everything from officially sanctioned 'Voice Stars' B&W
prints to cheap bootleg knockoff posters fresh from Chinatown for
signature fodder.
Of course, they also wound up wearing their wrists out in the
process signing for three hours straight apiece... but, hey, one can't
complain about the sales numbers they did.
In Stu's place I'd have brought everything along... not just
the rushed-to-print Sailor first edition comics. I'd have included
Naoko photos... Sailor Moon pocket manga... Mixx mousepads... little
boxes of Kellogg's Poptarts... Mixx-approved dictionaries of
'Motionless Slang' including correct grammatical use of words such as
'u' and Mixxers.
Anything and everything but the kitchen sink charged at
overinflated prices... with MixxMoney discounts available, of course.
Ken Arromdee
Brad Lascelle <pa...@negaverse.org> wrote:
> Secondly, it's not a requirement to forsake one's loyal
> audience in order to pursue such a bold move. Nobody forced Stu to
> pull Sailor Moon from MixxZine... and while the company line is that
> they had received a wealth of complaints regarding the nature of the
> content in Parasyte that such a change was unavoidable, other sources
> from within the Mixx infrastructure have more or less rebuked that
> claim as more or less a bunch of crap.
Personally, I complained about this from day one, as a fan.
I doubt the general public complained much, but I could easily see it as the
cause of a reduction in sales. Irate parents won't write letters; they'll
just not let their kids get the magazine.
On the other hand, if this was an important factor, you'd expect them to take
Rayearth out of the magazine too.
>> ... I wonder if that, when the OuterS turn up in SuperS, they'll be
>> named Corinn, Nerissa and Celia? ;)
> Considering the pronounced flexibility with regards to naming
> conventions that Mixx has explored in the past, it'll be interesting
> to see what kind of approach they take. It's anybody's guess at this
> point in time as to what they'll wind up running with.
At the Mixx panel at Otakon, the audience seemed to want Alex and Michelle.
It didn't seem like Mixx had decided what names to use. It could also just
be that nobody had told the representatives anything.
Also, Mixx claimed that there would be no changes in the relationship between
Haruka and Michiru. Given what they did to Ice Blade, well, we'll have to
see.
--
Ken Arromdee |They said it was *daft* to build a space
arro...@inetnow.net |station in a swamp, but I showed them! It
karr...@nyx.nyx.net |sank into the swamp. So I built a second
http://www.inetnow.net/~arromdee|space station. That sank into the swamp too.
--------------------------------+My third space station sank into the swamp.
So I built a fourth one. That fell into a time warp and _then_ sank into the
swamp. But the fifth one... stayed up! --Monty Python/Babylon 5
Ron Scovil Jr.
Brad Lascelle wrote:
> Furthermore, I don't really
> think it's possible to pursue a market of this kind (niche-based and
> all) without having some fringe interest in the kind of product you're
> producing... I'm sure that goes for Stuart Levy as well.
>
Brad until we had started Mixx he hadn't watched any anime at all/ He had
just seen Dragon Ball episodes on tv when we were in Japan and that was it
even there. He doesn't like anime. OR its fans.
Read my response to Aaron Maupin for a further expansion of this In the
San Diego Comic Con or thread.
> Now there's nothing wrong with exploring the mass market and
> going for the big bucks. If Mixx were to boost circulation of their
> upcoming Sailor Moon comic literally three or four fold over the
> current circulation of MixxZine, then I'd be hard-pressed to argue
> with the change in strategy... if the plans for heavy market
> penetration are there. Of course, there has been no indication that
> will be the case.
>
What IS intended is to spin Sailor Moon out of Mixx and get you to pay an
additional $2.95 for Sailor where it is being kicked out of Mixx.in terms
of storyline. It is known that people are hooked to the storyline. And
will pay the additional money to continue reading it. What you should
be asking yourself is why wasn't additional cost off making either Mixx
monthly as promised or adding the Sailor Moon pages in a way that could be
preforated out Or even perforating out Parasyte.
You see there is a moral lie here that needs to be addressed. If the
problem was violence in Parasyte. As if Ice blade is not violent.
You would remove Parasyte and keep the package you prmised and had
customers pay for.
But that is not the goal. The goal is $2.95 plus $4.99 Plus $3.99 Plus
Pocket manga and other moneys as people will miss an issue or so.
It should be very clear that there is a certain level of contempt in
feeding the readers a load of crap.
I had put my ass on the line at AnimeExpo and provided anyone at the Mixx
panel with the latest information I had at that time. And what was
intended which didn't have SM being sold alone But in Mixx and in SMILE.
I do know where the greed between July 4th and July 17th came from And I
left.
Ususally what happens when you are getting lied to by a liar. You do not
know you are getting lied to and you want to believe what you are hearing.
Right now you are all being lied to. That is why I can no longer sit back
and watch you get taken.
> Nobody forced Stu to pull Sailor from MixxZine without any kind
> of advance warning... not even an advance notice of a couple of issues
> was given for those subscribers unfortunate enough to not have 'Net
> access.
This is also very true. It could have been done earlier but it goes to
validate my point that Sailor was never going to get dropped from Mixx
UNTIL Stuart got greedy. Now there is mass confusion.
> > ... I wonder if that, when the OuterS turn up in SuperS, they'll be
> > named Corinn, Nerissa and Celia? ;)
>
Ah I can finally say this. Mixx is NOT obligated to use DIC names.
This was done with the primary story because at the time of launch and with
the knowledge that most Sailor fans were casual people most would be more
familiar with the DIC names.
Stuart also wanted to localize and "unJapanese" the characters in all the
stories.
I did succeed in getting MKR names left alone because CLAMP is so strict.
Fear what you will get. Stuart will be able to make the names whatever he
chooses . First he will look at the old copy of Ken Arromdees FAQ I gave
them and if they aren't there He will make up his own US names Trust
me.
--
Ron Scovil Jr.
yasuke on IRC
Andy Hock
> Ah I can finally say this. Mixx is NOT obligated to use DIC names.
> This was done with the primary story because at the time of launch and with
> the knowledge that most Sailor fans were casual people most would be more
> familiar with the DIC names.
I'm glad this has come to light. It always seemed absurd to haveMixx obligated
to use DiC names when Mixx had deals with
Kodansha and the manga authors, not with DiC or even Toei
or Bandai.
> I did succeed in getting MKR names left alone because CLAMP is so strict.
I believe this strictness is what saved us from having a commercialadaptation
of MKR on video here, too.
Andy Hock
Brad Lascelle
> Fear what you will get. Stuart will be able to make the names
> whatever he chooses. First he will look at the old copy of Ken
> Arromdee's FAQ I gave them and if they aren't there. He will make up
> his own US names Trust me.
Maybe Stu will name Pegasus after himself... ;)
Andrea Doolan
>
> In article <35D8AF6A...@negaverse.org>,
> Brad Lascelle <pa...@negaverse.org> wrote:
> >> named Corinn, Nerissa and Celia? ;)
> > conventions that Mixx has explored in the past, it'll be interesting
> > to see what kind of approach they take. It's anybody's guess at this
> > point in time as to what they'll wind up running with.
>
> At the Mixx panel at Otakon, the audience seemed to want Alex and Michelle.
> It didn't seem like Mixx had decided what names to use. It could also just
> be that nobody had told the representatives anything.
I question the sanity of these "fans."
> Also, Mixx claimed that there would be no changes in the relationship between
> Haruka and Michiru. Given what they did to Ice Blade, well, we'll have to
> see.
That we will...
~~Andrea Doolan
who got her new VKLL tapes today. Ureshii!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Otaku of Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon * | aj...@king.igs.net |
|Marmalade Boy * Shin Seiki Evangelion * |Proud resident of Canada!|
| Hime-chan no Ribon * Kodomo no Omocha *|"There is always hope and|
| Fan of Star Trek * X-Files * ReBoot * |rebirth." - Sailor Saturn|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken Arromdee
Andrea Doolan <aj...@king.igs.net> wrote:
>> At the Mixx panel at Otakon, the audience seemed to want Alex and Michelle.
>> It didn't seem like Mixx had decided what names to use. It could also just
>> be that nobody had told the representatives anything.
>Oh god, really? No requests for actually *keeping* Haruka and Michiru?
No, there were requests for those, though not a majority.
Glenn Moreau
<pa...@negaverse.org> wrote:
>
> One other bit of news I'll throw out right now for those of you
> still paying attention... reportedly Naoko Takeuchi's ComicCon
> appearance drew roughly 1,000-1,400 people.
How can that be a bad number? If you really need numbers, then
poll the newsgroup and other fans to find out:
a) who actually was there,
b) who couldn't afford to go, but wanted to be there,
c) who could afford to go, but couldn't because of other
obligations.
I really would have loved to have been there, could easily
afford it, but unfortunately could not get the time to be there.
Despite the size of the anime crowd at the only convention in
the northeast I know of (I-CON), there are never any Japanese guests
of such magnitude, and there was only one single copy of Mixx magazine
on one book rack at one dealer. Based on that assumption, I would
venture to say that If Takeuichisama had travelled around the US (and
Canada) a tad more than one paltry pit stop, there might be more ink
to the story.
> These are supposedly considered disappointing figures given
> that Watase Yuu drew slightly more than that at AX in July, Sailor
> Moon's relatively mainstream awareness, and the fact that ComicCon
> draws roughly SEVEN times the number of people AnimeExpo traditionally
> does.
>
> Given the extensive promotion and long-term awareness for this
> event, my only guess as to contributing factors to those poor results
> would be San Diego's smaller market size, the hindrance of it not
I only found out about this convention about 1-2 months ago,
which is why I couldn't come up with the time to be there. I don't
take a lot of time investigating comic book shows, trading cards
shows, etc. My interest is Sailor Moon period. If they wanted me to
know about a guest appearance, they really should add their web sites
to major search engines, so I can type in 'Sailor Moon' into Yahoo and
come up with ComicCon as one of the items near the top.
> being a centrally-accessible location (particularly with ComicCon
> being sandwiched between two notable conventions in the Eastern
> timezone), and Sailor Moon's lack of having a distinct and notable
> impact in the United States as a whole (or at least to the point where
> anybody watching the show regularly on the Cartoon Network had a clue
> that the creator of the show was in town).
Based on all the bickering I heard tales of between ban-dai,
dic, et al, why would anyone want to advertise the show? Or for that
matter someone (a foreigner the average casual watcher knows nothing
of, except the last line of the closing credits) from the show is in
town at some convention? For that matter why would cartoon network
even highlight a convention as part of its programming schedule?
One guest appearance in Southern California does not the world
make. Or even a moon kingdom :)
Glenn
Michael Mr. Groovy Toole
> I believe this strictness is what saved us from having a commercialadaptation
> of MKR on video here, too.
Actually, the story as I hear it is that TMS just couldn't find a buyer
for the show. They produced a goofy pilot episode, but that's about as
close to America as the Rayearth TV series got.
--
michael "mr. groovy" toole ------> chie...@animejump.com
Anime Jump WWW magazine. Go here: www.animejump.com
"I have a certain right to speak for anime fandom. You do not."
--Kevin J. Karvonen, paraphrased
Dave Manning
>
> In article <35D9E75C...@erinet.com>, Andy Hock <col...@erinet.com> wrote:
> > I believe this strictness is what saved us from having a commercialadaptation
> > of MKR on video here, too.
>
> Actually, the story as I hear it is that TMS just couldn't find a buyer
> for the show. They produced a goofy pilot episode, but that's about as
> close to America as the Rayearth TV series got.
Well... *sheepish* is there any way to get that pilot ep? =} I really
would like to see it, to compare it to the Sailor Moon pilot.
Ken Arromdee
>> Ah I can finally say this. Mixx is NOT obligated to use DIC names.
>> This was done with the primary story because at the time of launch and with
>> the knowledge that most Sailor fans were casual people most would be more
>> familiar with the DIC names.
>I'm glad this has come to light. It always seemed absurd to haveMixx obligated
>to use DiC names when Mixx had deals with
>Kodansha and the manga authors, not with DiC or even Toei
>or Bandai.
>> I did succeed in getting MKR names left alone because CLAMP is so strict.
>of MKR on video here, too.
Now, I'm wondering... what about Working Designs?
The Rayearth game for the Saturn was delayed for a long time. Working Designs
claimed that much of the delay was because Working Designs wanted to use the
original names, but the Japanese companies did not. Instead, the Japanese
companies wanted to use the names from the English dub pilot of Rayearth.
This sounded plausible when Mixx's story was making the rounds. After all,
we have two independent cases of a Japanese company requesting dub names for
an American adaption. But now, one of those cases, the one for Sailor Moon,
has been shown to be a lie. So what about the other one? Is the Rayearth
story true?
Especially if CLAMP is, as you say, strict about wanting their original names
to be used in Rayearth. (And considering that Working Designs once asked,
online, for suggestions about how to change the names in Rayearth, so they
weren't planning to keep the original names all along.)
So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_ want to
use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
Ron Scovil Jr.
Ken Arromdee wrote: This sounded plausible when Mixx's story was making the rounds.
After all,
> we have two independent cases of a Japanese company requesting dub names for
> an American adaption. But now, one of those cases, the one for Sailor Moon,
> has been shown to be a lie. So what about the other one? Is the Rayearth
> story true?
>
> Especially if CLAMP is, as you say, strict about wanting their original names
> to be used in Rayearth. (And considering that Working Designs once asked,
> online, for suggestions about how to change the names in Rayearth, so they
> weren't planning to keep the original names all along.)
>
> So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_ want to
> use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
> otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
Working Designs and Stu wanted to use a set of names like this I do not remember
them all now
Anemone Blaze and Luce
I always wanted to use the originals
Both stories from Mixx and Working Designs are revisionist history or more precisely
lies.
--
Ron Scovil Jr.
yasuke on IRC
Studio Phoenix
Joe Ottoson
> Ken Arromdee wrote: This sounded plausible when Mixx's story was making
the rounds.
> After all,
>
> > we have two independent cases of a Japanese company requesting dub names for
> > an American adaption. But now, one of those cases, the one for Sailor Moon,
> > has been shown to be a lie. So what about the other one? Is the Rayearth
> > story true?
> >
> > Especially if CLAMP is, as you say, strict about wanting their
original names
> > to be used in Rayearth. (And considering that Working Designs once asked,
> > online, for suggestions about how to change the names in Rayearth, so they
> > weren't planning to keep the original names all along.)
> >
> > So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_ want to
> > use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
> > otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
>
> Working Designs and Stu wanted to use a set of names like this I do
not remember
> them all now
>
> Anemone Blaze and Luce
>
That's not true. Sega wanted WD to use the US Series names (which Vic
never wanted to use) He was going to settle on names WD made up (Vic was
citing that the origional names sounded too Japanese when spoken), but
that fell through. Which has resulted in the current setup of using the
origional names.
> I always wanted to use the originals
>
And you are?
> Both stories from Mixx and Working Designs are revisionist history or
more precisely
> lies.
Not quite since you don't even have the facts straight in the first place...
Real faith is objective
Victor Ireland
> In article <35DCA09F...@pacbell.net>,
> Ron Scovil Jr. <rsc...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_ want to
> >> use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
> >> otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
> >Working Designs and Stu wanted to use a set of names like this I do not remember
> >them all now
> >Anemone Blaze and Luce
> >lies.
>
> Umi, and Fuu in that order.)
>
> The names that Working Designs last posted that they wanted to use were
> Blaze for Hikaru, and Ariel or Gale for Fuu. I don't know about Umi. This
> was June 1996. As of August 1997, a Working Designs representative claimed
> that they fought with Kodansha for two years to get the rights to use the
> original names.
If you want a rough timeline, here it goes:
Rayearth license is obtained, we plan to change the names
About 6 months later, we are told that we MUST use the crappy new names
TMS has used in the ill-fated TV dub, since they're trying to sell it to
TV. We refuse.
Much tug of war. (18 months or more)
Mixx contacts us to "sync" our versions of the translations. They will
be doing the manga. They want to change the names, too. I explain that
we are tired of fighting, and just want to use the original names, which
Kodansha/TMS is still prohibiting. They agree that this is the best
course of action, and we press for original names on two fronts.
We finally get to use original names.
--
Don't Believe the Hype -
Vic
John Chennavasin
>I'm glad this has come to light. It always seemed absurd to haveMixx
>obligated to use DiC names when Mixx had deals with Kodansha and the
>manga authors, not with DiC or even Toei or Bandai.
This also explains why Serena was changed to "Bunny" in the Mixx version.
Now, anyone know the ORIGINAL names for the characters in HARLEM BEAT?
--
John Chennavasin |
jche...@best.com |
Hikaru Shidou
>In article <35DCA09F...@pacbell.net>, rsc...@pacbell.net wrote:
>> Working Designs and Stu wanted to use a set of names like this I do
>>not remember them all now
>> Anemone Blaze and Luce
>
>That's not true. Sega wanted WD to use the US Series names (which Vic
>never wanted to use) He was going to settle on names WD made up (Vic was
>citing that the origional names sounded too Japanese when spoken), but
>that fell through. Which has resulted in the current setup of using the
>origional names.
If I recall, the original pilot for the US dub series (which was
rumored to be the ones WD will use on the RayEarth mailing list
waaay back when the Saturn game was first announced), they were
Luce, Marina, and Anemone.
Stu's original name set was
Blaze, Nautia, and Windi.
I know, This was back when Stu checked what he changed outta my
scripts with me.
I gagged at both sets. But then, I am biased.
Therefore, what Ron was saying is BASICALLY true, albeit he mixed
the two name sets up. =)
>> I always wanted to use the originals
>And you are?
Ron was the co-founder of Mixx Entertainment and EIC of MixxZine at
the time. (Me, I'm the RayEarth fantranslator that MixxZine
ORIGINALLY based their translation on -- dunno about now :P).
And YOU are? =)
>Not quite since you don't even have the facts straight in the first place...
why flame concerning rayearth facts on a sailor moon newsgroup?
(Sure, Ron mixed up the two English name sets, but his facts seem
relatively straight to me. And unless you currently work for Mixx,
you can't claim that Ron is lying about what went on / is going on
at Mixx (unless you're on the Mixx webboard, where any flame seems
to be allowed nowadays, even bullshit)... Since you seem to be well-
acquainted with Vic, I will assume that you have ALL the inside info
and facts straight from the WD end... but unless you show proof that
you know inside info from Mixx, I don't think you can say that Ron
doesn't have the Mixx facts straight.)
gah, I shouldn't post to usenet right after I have a petty argument
with my SO concerning quality of SCANNERS of all things...
anyway.
I would understand if this was a rayearth group, hell, even raam....
but why here?? ^^;;;;
Ken Arromdee
>That's not true. Sega wanted WD to use the US Series names (which Vic
>never wanted to use) He was going to settle on names WD made up (Vic was
>citing that the origional names sounded too Japanese when spoken), but
>that fell through. Which has resulted in the current setup of using the
>origional names.
This is more believable. But people have gotten the idea that the Rayearth
game was delayed because WD wanted to use the original names. When in fact
at least part of the delay was because WD wanted to use a _third_ set of names.
And now, Ron has pointed out that CLAMP liked using original names in the
manga. If they had a similar attitude about the game, then maybe if WD had
wanted the original names all along, there would be no delay at all.
Ken Arromdee
Ron Scovil Jr. <rsc...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_ want to
>> use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
>> otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
>them all now
>Anemone Blaze and Luce
>lies.
Actually, the dub names were Luce, Marine, and Anemone. (These are Hikaru,
Umi, and Fuu in that order.)
The names that Working Designs last posted that they wanted to use were
Blaze for Hikaru, and Ariel or Gale for Fuu. I don't know about Umi. This
was June 1996. As of August 1997, a Working Designs representative claimed
that they fought with Kodansha for two years to get the rights to use the
original names.
Michael Mr. Groovy Toole
Shidou) wrote:
> If I recall, the original pilot for the US dub series (which was
> rumored to be the ones WD will use on the RayEarth mailing list
> waaay back when the Saturn game was first announced), they were
> Luce, Marina, and Anemone.
Ick. Hey, where could I get a copy of this pilot? I've seen clips
from it, and it looked bizarre. I have a fetish for truly awful dubs-- I
wonder if TMS would cough one up if I bugged them for it? ^^;
> Stu's original name set was
> Blaze, Nautia, and Windi.
Double ick.
> I gagged at both sets. But then, I am biased.
You're the ultimate CLAMP fangirl. (And that's a compliment.
Honest!) Didn't you even score translation duties for CLAMP Campus
Detectives?
> gah, I shouldn't post to usenet right after I have a petty argument
> with my SO concerning quality of SCANNERS of all things...
Hm. I have a Umax Astra 610s. Not the highest quality, for sure, but
hell, the thing cost me sixty bucks.
> anyway.
> I would understand if this was a rayearth group, hell, even raam....
> but why here?? ^^;;;;
alt.fan.sailor-moon: Because Sailor Moon is in MixxZine, and so is Rayearth.
rec.games.video.sega: Because of the Rayearth game, which, as always, is
coming Real Soon Now.
Given the fact that both the manga and the game have attracted attention,
I'm surprised that the anime is still in limbo, as far as stateside
distro. goes. Hell, even -Ping-Ping Club- got picked up. And Machine
Robo. And Dragon League. What's next? Albegas?
paul_a...@my-dejanews.com
In article <35dc4...@news.inetnow.net>,
karr...@nyx.nyx.net wrote:
> In article <35D9E75C...@erinet.com>,
> Andy Hock <col...@erinet.com> wrote:
> >Ron Scovil Jr. wrote:
> >> Ah I can finally say this. Mixx is NOT obligated to use DIC names.
> >> This was done with the primary story because at the time of launch and with
> >> the knowledge that most Sailor fans were casual people most would be more
> >> familiar with the DIC names.
> >I'm glad this has come to light. It always seemed absurd to haveMixx
obligated
> >to use DiC names when Mixx had deals with
> >Kodansha and the manga authors, not with DiC or even Toei
> >or Bandai.
> >> I did succeed in getting MKR names left alone because CLAMP is so strict.
> >I believe this strictness is what saved us from having a commercialadaptation
> >of MKR on video here, too.
>
> Now, I'm wondering... what about Working Designs?
>
> The Rayearth game for the Saturn was delayed for a long time. Working Designs
> claimed that much of the delay was because Working Designs wanted to use the
> original names, but the Japanese companies did not. Instead, the Japanese
> companies wanted to use the names from the English dub pilot of Rayearth.
>
> This sounded plausible when Mixx's story was making the rounds. After all,
> we have two independent cases of a Japanese company requesting dub names for
> an American adaption. But now, one of those cases, the one for Sailor Moon,
> has been shown to be a lie. So what about the other one? Is the Rayearth
> story true?
>
> Especially if CLAMP is, as you say, strict about wanting their original names
> to be used in Rayearth. (And considering that Working Designs once asked,
> online, for suggestions about how to change the names in Rayearth, so they
> weren't planning to keep the original names all along.)
>
> So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_ want to
> use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
> otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
> --
> Ken Arromdee |They said it was *daft* to build a space
> arro...@inetnow.net |station in a swamp, but I showed them! It
> karr...@nyx.nyx.net |sank into the swamp. So I built a second
> http://www.inetnow.net/~arromdee|space station. That sank into the swamp too.
> --------------------------------+My third space station sank into the swamp.
> So I built a fourth one. That fell into a time warp and _then_ sank into the
> swamp. But the fifth one... stayed up! --Monty Python/Babylon 5
>
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John Hokanson Jr.
wrote:
>In article <35DCA09F...@pacbell.net>,
>Ron Scovil Jr. <rsc...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_ want to
>>> use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
>>> otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
>>Working Designs and Stu wanted to use a set of names like this I do not remember
>>them all now
>>Anemone Blaze and Luce
>>I always wanted to use the originals
>>Both stories from Mixx and Working Designs are revisionist history or more precisely
>>lies.
>
>Actually, the dub names were Luce, Marine, and Anemone. (These are Hikaru,
>Umi, and Fuu in that order.)
>
>The names that Working Designs last posted that they wanted to use were
>Blaze for Hikaru, and Ariel or Gale for Fuu. I don't know about Umi. This
>was June 1996. As of August 1997, a Working Designs representative claimed
>that they fought with Kodansha for two years to get the rights to use the
>original names.
>--
Gee, I wonder what compled them to change their tune?
I was always under the belief that Vic *always* wanted to use the
Japanese names. But if it was a overly prolonged fight over two
different changes.....*sigh*
Man, I try so hard to have respect for WD.....and then I hear this
"behind the scenes" crap.
John Hokanson Jr.
wrote:
With regards to CLAMP, they probably understand that many games
players are not anime or manga fans. Especially on the RPG staved
Saturn here in the US.
But I mean, for chist's sake. I bought into Vic's story with the
assumption that Vic wanted to protect the integrity of the original
work (gee, that's a first), and when I hear this I am just floored! I
wasn't around here in 1996, so I probably would be a lot more bitter
if I heard the original excuse. Now I can't help but feel that I,
(along with a fair share of other Saturn loyalists and anime fans) was
led down the path with half truths and lies, only to be stonewalled
time and time again. To add insult to repeated insult is to hear in
come from the horses mouth.
Even taking common help belief, in and editorial I wrote for
DaveZ's Sega Saturn page, even *I* the ever mindful anime purist if
you will, was a little turned off by such a long delay over the
*names* of all things. Now I hear that the delay was not for something
as admerable as protecting artistic integrity, but rather just to
reach a compromise which was defaulted to when nither party could
decide what path to take in the raping of a video game adaptation!?!?
God give me strength!!!!!
The raving otaku fanboy has spoken. And I apologize for my inane
ranting. It's late here, and this entire saga has been a long ordeal
for me.
>aj...@dim.com (Joe Ottoson) wrote:
>>That's not true. Sega wanted WD to use the US Series names (which Vic
>>never wanted to use) He was going to settle on names WD made up (Vic was
>>citing that the origional names sounded too Japanese when spoken), but
>>that fell through. Which has resulted in the current setup of using the
>>origional names.
>
>This is more believable. But people have gotten the idea that the Rayearth
>game was delayed because WD wanted to use the original names. When in fact
>at least part of the delay was because WD wanted to use a _third_ set of names.
>And now, Ron has pointed out that CLAMP liked using original names in the
>manga. If they had a similar attitude about the game, then maybe if WD had
>wanted the original names all along, there would be no delay at all.
Ken Arromdee
Victor Ireland <vire...@workingdesigns.com> wrote:
>Rayearth license is obtained, we plan to change the names
>About 6 months later, we are told that we MUST use the crappy new names
>TMS has used in the ill-fated TV dub, since they're trying to sell it to
>TV. We refuse.
>Much tug of war. (18 months or more)
>Mixx contacts us to "sync" our versions of the translations. They will
>be doing the manga. They want to change the names, too. I explain that
>we are tired of fighting, and just want to use the original names, which
>Kodansha/TMS is still prohibiting. They agree that this is the best
>course of action, and we press for original names on two fronts.
Okay, now I'm confused again. There are two people, one saying that Kodansha
didn't want the original names for Rayearth, and one, at least suggesting they
did. Both seem like they'd be in the know. Could someone please enlighten
me?
And for how long did WD push for the changed names and how long for the
original names? (I'm not really wondering about exact numbers of months,
just about which one was more responsible for the delay...)
Pook!
>
> Mark Sprague <crs...@inforamp.net> Writes:
>
> > One entertaining thought that just sprung to mind ... after reading
> > Small Girl's Ron Scovil interview, particularily the comments about
> > his being the only real anime fan on the staff, and how the new
> > management is primarily interested in mass market appeal and money...
>
> I think it's important to clarify a few things on this point
> you raise and delve into some of the meat of this issue. (For those
> of you used to the typical newsgroup fluff, I promptly encourage you
> to skip on to the next message of regurgitated mishmash.)
Thhbbt. (I had thought out a more mature and coherent reply to that, but
decided it wasn't worth the effort.)
> One other bit of news I'll throw out right now for those of you
> still paying attention... reportedly Naoko Takeuchi's ComicCon
> appearance drew roughly 1,000-1,400 people.
>
> These are supposedly considered disappointing figures given
> that Watase Yuu drew slightly more than that at AX in July, Sailor
> Moon's relatively mainstream awareness, and the fact that ComicCon
> draws roughly SEVEN times the number of people AnimeExpo traditionally
> does.
>
> Given the extensive promotion and long-term awareness for this
> event, my only guess as to contributing factors to those poor results
> would be San Diego's smaller market size, the hindrance of it not
> being a centrally-accessible location (particularly with ComicCon
> being sandwiched between two notable conventions in the Eastern
> timezone), and Sailor Moon's lack of having a distinct and notable
> impact in the United States as a whole (or at least to the point where
> anybody watching the show regularly on the Cartoon Network had a clue
> that the creator of the show was in town).
Another theory is that a good number of people who had every intention
of going to it never showed up because it for some incomprehensible
reason was scheduled in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday, a date
and time at which nearly everyone above sixteen, especially in the
summer, is at work. It's especially silly when you consider that just
about the only people who would be free, kids out on summer vacation,
would never think to find out who the show's creator is or wouldn't be
able to arrange how to get there without their parents driving them, who
most likely wouldn't understand doing such a thing, especially so their
kids were going to see "some woman with a foreign name." When was Watase
Yuu's appearance? For some reason I'm pretty sure it was on a Saturday,
but I could be wrong...
Also, getting back to the whole Mixx thing...what the HEY is going on??
Is that really Ron Scovil posting? Did he really leave Mixxzine? They're
not going to finish the run through the R series?
--Pook! ^_^ (It's what I get for not paying attention to what's
happening for a few days... :)
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Jg! Warrior Mars
>In article <35D9E75C...@erinet.com>,
>Andy Hock <col...@erinet.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm glad this has come to light. It always seemed absurd to haveMixx
>>obligated to use DiC names when Mixx had deals with Kodansha and the
>>manga authors, not with DiC or even Toei or Bandai.
>
>
>Now, anyone know the ORIGINAL names for the characters in HARLEM BEAT?
I remember reading somewhere that Mizzy was originally called Mizuki.
>--
>John Chennavasin |
>jche...@best.com |
--
Jg! Warrior Mars
# 1 Oosaka Naru Fan
Where does the courage come from? The little red light...on top of that
camera.
(Space Ghost)
-Jg's Naru-chan Shrine (slowly re-opening):
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4537
AOHell...er...L Instant Messenger: JgTsuki
ICQ: 14810379
Hank Wong
>> > of MKR on video here, too.
>>
>> for the show. They produced a goofy pilot episode, but that's about as
>> close to America as the Rayearth TV series got.
>
>Well... *sheepish* is there any way to get that pilot ep? =} I really
>would like to see it, to compare it to the Sailor Moon pilot.
goofy was putting it lightly. The MKRE pilot dub was pretty bad. Won't
mention the names, as they've been beaten to death elsewhere on this
thread. The Magic Knights talk like valley girls. Made the Sailor Moon
dub sound like an awesome work of art in comparison.
-Hank, returning to *lurk* mode
--
-----
Hank Wong hank...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
LoGH List Admiral http://www.hooked.net/~renegade
"So fast...like a gale..." -Vice Adm. Al-salem
Dtran
>> The names that Working Designs last posted that they wanted to use were
>> Blaze for Hikaru, and Ariel or Gale for Fuu. I don't know about Umi.
This
>> was June 1996.
A note on Ariel....
This reminds me of that string of posts awhile back where it was revealed
Pluto was changed to Plu or pl-something because they were afraid it'd
mingle w/ the pluto of disney.
Ariel -- altho it's probably not spelled the same, can have the same
problem. <rant>But then again, I thought that pluto thing awhile back was
quite dumb (it's a planet, gee...) so that rather contradicts myself.</rant>
Onii <dtran>
Hikaru Shidou
(Victor Ireland) wrote:
>Rayearth license is obtained, we plan to change the names
Just out of curiosity, what names were thought of at WD back then
(compared to the Luce/Marine/Anemone of Kodansha/TMS and the
Blaze/Nautia/Windi of Stu/Mixx)?
(I want to add all the name-juggling in the RayEarth FAQ because
I often get mail concerning the Knights' names in English... ^^;;)
h
listen to company hype, listen to supporters, listen to complaints,
then decide for yourself where you stand and keep opinions to oneself.
Hikaru Shidou
wrote:
>When was Watase Yuu's appearance?
Saturday morning, 10am.
I hear there were campers from like 2:30am to get in?
>Is that really Ron Scovil posting? Did he really leave Mixxzine?
IMHO it was mutual disagreement of opinion on where things
were going and he was fired / quit (depending on which side
of the story you believe more).
Hikaru Shidou
wrote:
>Now, anyone know the ORIGINAL names for the characters in HARLEM BEAT?
*pulls out HARLEM BEAT tankoubon #1*
not looking at mixx right now (where did I put that thing after AX?)
so don't remember equivs, sorry
* main char is "Tohru Naruse" (nicknamed "Narucho" by Mizuki)
* the senior guy on basketball team is "(no first name) Sakurai"
* Tohru's friend that goes shopping for equip with Tohru is "(no
first name) Inoue"
* the girl is "Mizuki Kusuda"
* the Three Men d00d is (still?) Shu
* the biker d00d is "Kousuke Ozaki"
Dave Manning
I've emailed Working Designs the following letter about their opening
theme.
--
Hello,
We've been talking on alt.fan.sailor-moon (don't ask why) for some time
now about the Rayearth Saturn game. I don't know if you've been reading
the threads or not (there were a few of them), but one of them was about
the changes made to the game. The people who post to those threads are
fans of the original Rayearth and like the original op and end songs
from the TV anime and the OAVs. I haven't seen any positive posts about
the Working Designs version of the op theme for the Saturn game. Having
said that, here is what we dislike.
1 - Singer. Her pitch is off in a few parts, and it's especially
noticeable at the very opening. She also doesn't have much dynamics
range, and also doesn't sync up with the music as she should (she sounds
a bit lagged).
2 - Sound effects. There were around three in the original version.
The ones that have been added in the WD version aren't appropriate. I'm
referring to Ferio's sword slash, Mokona's "bounce", Zagato's "eye", the
attack sounds of the Magic Knights, etc. I don't mind the tinkling
sounds that were added, such as when Presea floats by or when the
knights gain their armor. However, the rest don't sound realistic. The
sword slashes sound like two forks being banged together, while Mokona's
jumping reminds me of various MS Office sound-effects.
These are the only problems that I see with the opening song. Some
people I've spoken with say that the music track is too "pop-ish", but
as the game is being produced for the masses, I don't think that's a
problem. What fans of the anime would like is to have the song
unchanged from the original. That's probably not possible both because
you had to recreate it from scratch (I assume you didn't get the rights
to the song?) and the game is being marketed for the general
population. As an alternative, I'd like you to consider some of the
following suggestions.
-Remove the sound effects not there in the original version, as some of
the ones you added don't fit. If possible, recreate the bad ones.
-Use an instrumental version of "Yuzuu Negai" (what you have now). If
your rendition of "Yuzuu Negai" (does it have an English name?) was
composed using MIDI, it wouldn't be hard to make it into an instrumental
version. This is the popular request from the afs-mers.
-Add a second opening which would display after ten or twenty seconds
sitting at the title screen, using the same opening video but an
instrumental version of "Yuzuu Negai". Please do not add in any in-game
pictures. I really didn't like it when this was done with Alundra.
-Add a second opening which would display after ten or twenty seconds
sitting at the title screen, using either the same opening video as
before, or using another opening video from one of the TV seasons.
Please don't add in any of the in-game shots. Use an instrumental
version of "Yuzuu Negai", "Kirai ni Narenai" (second opening song of the
first season) or "Hikari to Kage wo Dashishimetamama" (first op of the
second season).
The fans of the Magic Knights Rayearth anime and import game don't mind
that you're making this mainstream, but we want to be able to enjoy it
in as close to it's original form as we can. If you added in another
opening with either the same video or that from a different season
combined with non-voice audio, you'd get the a-ok from the anime fans.
If this is at all possible, we urge you to do it.
On a side-note, it was commented in the Letters section that "otaku" was
a translation of "geek". "Otaku" is the polite equivalent of "anata",
which is roughly translated as "you" (though I would assume you know
this, being a translation team!). It's a label for anime fans and early
hackers/bulletin board users, most often the former.
--
Dave Manning http://members.tripod.com/~hawks_eye/
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
MoonieCode(2.01b7)
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Joshua Kaufman
> -Add a second opening which would display after ten or twenty seconds
> sitting at the title screen, using the same opening video but an
> instrumental version of "Yuzuu Negai". Please do not add in any in-game
> pictures. I really didn't like it when this was done with Alundra.
Actually Dave, in Alundra what they did was take the original opening,
which was ONLY in game footage, and merge some of that with some of the
Anime ending sequence. I personally thought it was quite neat,
especailly after watching the original Japaneese opening (it's there on
the CD...I checked with PSX video)
-Joshua
--
User of the name Aerith... Master bad punner... Composer of 8 opi....
Player of FF series... Worshiper of Nobuo Uematsu... Watcher of Sailor
Moon... Member of the Ellipsis Faction... Proprietor of the ellipsis...
ICQ#: 5404138 AOL-IM: TerraEpon
"Is the whole world going bonkers or is it just me!?!"
- Serena on Sailor Moon (eps. 54)
"As you can see, this is a Playstation black disk. Cut number 1 contains
computer data, so please, don't play it. But you probably won't listen
to me, will you?"
- Alucard, when you put C-SOTN in a CD-player
Michi-chan
>
> On a side-note, it was commented in the Letters section that "otaku" was
> a translation of "geek". "Otaku" is the polite equivalent of "anata",
> which is roughly translated as "you" (though I would assume you know
> this, being a translation team!).
Though it's used more often as an insult, an over-the-top fan.
> It's a label for anime fans and early
> hackers/bulletin board users, most often the former.
Otaku doesn't only mean anime fan. There are gun/military otaku,
computer otaku, sci-fi otaku, etc. You are only thinking of the
American definition. 'Geek' is a fine translation given some contexts.
--
Michi-chan
z t s u k i n o @ g e o c i t i e s . c o m
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/4940/
Michael Mr. Groovy Toole
<dman...@nospam.execulink.com> wrote:
> The fans of the Magic Knights Rayearth anime and import game don't mind
> that you're making this mainstream, but we want to be able to enjoy it
> in as close to it's original form as we can. If you added in another
> opening with either the same video or that from a different season
> combined with non-voice audio, you'd get the a-ok from the anime fans.
> If this is at all possible, we urge you to do it.
Dude, these are nice sentiments, but I just want Vic & co. to finish
the game. If I really think it blows chunks (and quite frankly, I'm not
expecting it to bed that bad... or bad at all, really) then I'll just
check out the imported version.
> On a side-note, it was commented in the Letters section that "otaku" was
> a translation of "geek". "Otaku" is the polite equivalent of "anata",
> which is roughly translated as "you" (though I would assume you know
> this, being a translation team!). It's a label for anime fans and early
> hackers/bulletin board users, most often the former.
Err, yes and no. In Japan, "otaku" is often used as an insult, to
refer to someone who's a fan of something to the exclusion of everything
else. And it doesn't just apply to anime; it can be military hardware,
science fiction, computers, you name it.
--
michael "mr. groovy" toole ------> chie...@animejump.com
Anime Jump WWW magazine. Go here: www.animejump.com
"You can take your Stars, and you can take your Bucks,
And you can shove 'em up your ass-- 'cause your coffee sucks!"
--Skavoovie & the Epitones
Victor Ireland
Ferio's sound effect is STRAIGHT from the TMS original FX. I don't know what
they used, but perhaps it WAS forks. :) The rest of the FX are from pro
CD FX libraries that Lucasfilm, Paramount, Warner, etc all use. They will
stay, though in the final mix (the net one was rough), they may be less
noticable.
While I appreciate your suggestions, they would be better directed at
TMS for the anime dub. Our restrictions were and ARE tight. Making
the opening an instrumental would only further show some of the flaws
and instruments that we had to omit to avoid making the song too
"correct." If you hate the opening, you will probably hate the
in-game text and translation. It's unfortunate, but true.
Victor Ireland
> a translation of "geek". "Otaku" is the polite equivalent of "anata",
> which is roughly translated as "you" (though I would assume you know
> this, being a translation team!). It's a label for anime fans and early
> hackers/bulletin board users, most often the former.
>
I didn't say otaku was a LITERAL translation of "geek". I implied
(and am now saying) that it is the accepted meaning in colloquial
modern Japanese.
Faggot literally means "stick" in English. Very few people now
would call a stick a faggot or a cigarette a "fag". The word has
accumulated a negative meaning. Ditto "scumbag". I remember
using it a LOT as a kid in school in the 70's. Now, it's
verboten to use in everyday speech because it's acquired the
accepted general use slang meaning of a used condom. It's
even banned on most TV here. Colloquial speech has VERY little
to do with dictionaries and translation guides.
Otaku IS taken to generally mean a geek in Japanese, right
now, today. It's NOT a kind term.
MoonPrince
> in-game text and translation. It's unfortunate, but true.
Sorry vic, and I promised not to bother you again about this too. Anyway,
you know how I feel about your English opening. And you know how I feel
about Umi's diary writing. Those are two aspects I didn't like about your
Rayearth port, however, I still will not judge the game until I've played
through your port.
So my question is: Why would we probably hate the text/translation if we
didn't like the opening? It's not the lyrics I am against in the opening,
only the singer's skill and the music(well, this is most of it). So
unless there's more singing and alteration of music, I don't see how
disliking the op relates to disliking the game. I know some people are
big fans of your liberal translations. Others dislike WD for the same
reason. I am in the middle somewhere. I am already biased against not
hearing Hekiru Shiina, Kasahara Hiroko, and Yoshida Konami, but I am
willing to give the English version a chance. You said it's not nearly as
bad as the Sega-Shining Force III crap dub fiasco. I'll take your word
for it. So yeah... back to the original question.
-mp
Victor Ireland
tch...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu says...
> > Otaku IS taken to generally mean a geek in Japanese, right
> > now, today. It's NOT a kind term.
>
> customers.
>
> Otaku are hard-core fans, and spend a lot of money of anime and video
> games. If I were an otaku I would find the comment on the page rather
> offensive and alienating, as if their opinions (and money) were
> insignificant.
>
>
The point of the note was not to alienate, but to point out that "otaku" is NOT a kind
term, and US hardcore fans of Japanese games and video would be best served
calling themselves "hardcore" or something else rather than otaku. "Otaku" is
actually offensive in itself.
MoonPrince
> > customers.
>
> term, and US hardcore fans of Japanese games and video would be best served
> calling themselves "hardcore" or something else rather than otaku. "Otaku" is
> actually offensive in itself.
Hate to break it to ya Tom, but Vic's right. "Otaku" does have a
negative connotation to it. Though anime fans tend to use it for their
love of the genre, it really can be applied to many other genres. So
perhaps anime fans are misusing the term? At any rate, there was an
article written about "otaku" at animecca. I wonder if it's still there?
Lemme check...
http://animeonline.org/essays/whatsanotaku.html
Pretty interesting article.
-mp
Joe Ottoson
<mich...@michi.net> wrote:
> Dave Manning wrote:
> >
> > On a side-note, it was commented in the Letters section that "otaku" was
> > a translation of "geek". "Otaku" is the polite equivalent of "anata",
> > which is roughly translated as "you" (though I would assume you know
> > this, being a translation team!).
>
> Though it's used more often as an insult, an over-the-top fan.
>
> > It's a label for anime fans and early
> > hackers/bulletin board users, most often the former.
>
> Otaku doesn't only mean anime fan. There are gun/military otaku,
> computer otaku, sci-fi otaku, etc. You are only thinking of the
> American definition. 'Geek' is a fine translation given some contexts.
>
Heh. "Geek" in that context would make millitia members gun geeks ;)
Real faith is objective
Dave Manning
>
> In article <35DB17DC...@nospam.execulink.com>,
> Dave Manning <dman...@nospam.execulink.com> wrote:
> >Well... *sheepish* is there any way to get that pilot ep? =} I really
> >would like to see it, to compare it to the Sailor Moon pilot.
>
> goofy was putting it lightly. The MKRE pilot dub was pretty bad. Won't
> mention the names, as they've been beaten to death elsewhere on this
> thread. The Magic Knights talk like valley girls. Made the Sailor Moon
> dub sound like an awesome work of art in comparison.
I'd still love to see it. Who would I have to bug to find it somewhere?
Shiva the perpetually busy
On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Victor Ireland wrote:
> I didn't say otaku was a LITERAL translation of "geek". I implied
> (and am now saying) that it is the accepted meaning in colloquial
> modern Japanese.
>
> Faggot literally means "stick" in English. Very few people now
> would call a stick a faggot or a cigarette a "fag". The word has
> accumulated a negative meaning. Ditto "scumbag". I remember
> using it a LOT as a kid in school in the 70's. Now, it's
> verboten to use in everyday speech because it's acquired the
> accepted general use slang meaning of a used condom. It's
> even banned on most TV here. Colloquial speech has VERY little
> to do with dictionaries and translation guides.
>
> Otaku IS taken to generally mean a geek in Japanese, right
> now, today. It's NOT a kind term.
Some people would call themselves otaku, and those people are your best
customers.
Otaku are hard-core fans, and spend a lot of money of anime and video
Linda and George
MoonPrince <ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.GSO.3.96.980823...@catbert.ucdavis.edu>...
> > > Some people would call themselves otaku, and those people are your
best
> > > customers.
> >
> > The point of the note was not to alienate, but to point out that
"otaku" is NOT a kind
> > term, and US hardcore fans of Japanese games and video would be best
served
> > calling themselves "hardcore" or something else rather than otaku.
"Otaku" is
> > actually offensive in itself.
>
> Hate to break it to ya Tom, but Vic's right. "Otaku" does have a
> negative connotation to it. Though anime fans tend to use it for their
> love of the genre, it really can be applied to many other genres. So
> perhaps anime fans are misusing the term? At any rate, there was an
> article written about "otaku" at animecca. I wonder if it's still there?
> Lemme check...
I don't consider myself a hardcore anime fan, but I could understand
the adoption of an "offensive" name for serious fans of the genre. Lots of
people adopt offensive names for various reasons...I think most of the
anime fans are aware that "Otaku" is supposed to be offensive; *I* knew
that before reading this thread, and I'm only a casual viewer of anime who
knows very little Japanese. They've decided to adopt it as their name
though, and I'd guess it's either because they're somehow proud of
their...uh..."devotion," or because they're aware that others find it a bit
silly and they mean it as a sort of tongue-in-cheek thing. IMHO, of
course.
George K.
paul_a...@my-dejanews.com
In article <Pine.A41.3.95.980824...@red.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
Shiva the perpetually busy <tch...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Victor Ireland wrote:
>
> > I didn't say otaku was a LITERAL translation of "geek". I implied
> > (and am now saying) that it is the accepted meaning in colloquial
> > modern Japanese.
> >
> > Faggot literally means "stick" in English. Very few people now
> > would call a stick a faggot or a cigarette a "fag". The word has
> > accumulated a negative meaning. Ditto "scumbag". I remember
> > using it a LOT as a kid in school in the 70's. Now, it's
> > verboten to use in everyday speech because it's acquired the
> > accepted general use slang meaning of a used condom. It's
> > even banned on most TV here. Colloquial speech has VERY little
> > to do with dictionaries and translation guides.
> >
> > Otaku IS taken to generally mean a geek in Japanese, right
> > now, today. It's NOT a kind term.
>
> Some people would call themselves otaku, and those people are your best
> customers.
>
> Otaku are hard-core fans, and spend a lot of money of anime and video
> games. If I were an otaku I would find the comment on the page rather
> offensive and alienating, as if their opinions (and money) were
> insignificant.
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Victor Ireland
says...
> I don't consider myself a hardcore anime fan, but I could understand
> the adoption of an "offensive" name for serious fans of the genre. Lots of
> people adopt offensive names for various reasons...I think most of the
> anime fans are aware that "Otaku" is supposed to be offensive; *I* knew
> that before reading this thread, and I'm only a casual viewer of anime who
> knows very little Japanese. They've decided to adopt it as their name
> though, and I'd guess it's either because they're somehow proud of
> their...uh..."devotion," or because they're aware that others find it a bit
> silly and they mean it as a sort of tongue-in-cheek thing. IMHO, of
> course.
>
> George K.
>
But the original poster I was replying to DIDN'T know it was an offensive
term. He was saying that because it literally means "you" in Japanese,
I was all wet. There ARE people out there than think Otaku is a complimentary
label to be worn with pride the world over. I was merely setting the
record straight.
Linda and George
Victor Ireland <vire...@workingdesigns.com> wrote in article
<MPG.104b4713c...@news.mindspring.com>...
> But the original poster I was replying to DIDN'T know it was an offensive
> term. He was saying that because it literally means "you" in Japanese,
> I was all wet. There ARE people out there than think Otaku is a
complimentary
> label to be worn with pride the world over. I was merely setting the
> record straight.
>
> --
> Don't Believe the Hype -
> Vic
>
How odd...I learned it when I lurked a bit on the anime newsgroups a
while back, trying to get a feel for what was good viewing (there's a lot
of bad anime out there, too). I saw people sneeringly referring to each
other as "Otaku" which was said to be the equivalent of "fanboy"---never a
nice thing to call somebody. I just assumed that all hardcore fans must
know that sort of thing, since the word was thrown around there a lot, but
I guess that I was wrong.
George K.
John Hokanson Jr.
Generally, I wouldn't mind being calling an Otaku by another person
that is as, or more devoted to anime fandom than me. Bear in mind, I'm
not *that* devoted, and I think I'm actually scaling back. Although
has negitive connotations, it's pretty benign among the fandom inner
circle.
What I *would* mind being called is a "fanboy". That's just a
completely cut and dry insult. I get very angry when people brandish
that about. We're starting to see a startling breakdown of anime
fandom into the "elitits" and the "fanboys".
Linda and George
John Hokanson Jr. <yangn...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<35e1c0f0...@news.vmicro.com>...
> What I *would* mind being called is a "fanboy". That's just a
> completely cut and dry insult. I get very angry when people brandish
> that about. We're starting to see a startling breakdown of anime
> fandom into the "elitits" and the "fanboys".
Yeah, I remember that when I was browsing the anime groups, anybody
who was a fan of "mainstream" anime like Sailor Moon, Ranma 1/2, Akira, or
the stuff that was brought to american tv under different names (Robotech,
Battle of the Planets, etc.) was labelled a fanboy and dismissed by the
newsgroup elders. It's just like every other subculture in the world, the
"elite" have to seperate themselves from the "posers" by being fans of the
absolutely most obscure stuff possible.
George K.
John Hokanson Jr.
<rat...@peorth.gweep.net> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>"JH" == John Hokanson <yangn...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>JH> Although has negitive connotations, it's pretty benign among the fandom
>JH> inner circle.
>
>Ah, but that is a slang usage, John, not the 'proper' usage of the word.
>Within that inner circle it is not an insult. But to anyone outside that
>very close circle it most certainly is an insult.
>
Isn't that basically just what I said? And let me reiterate that I
take no offense to being called a otaku by other anime fans. I do
however hate being called a "fanboy" by *anybody*. "Fanboy", unlike
otaku, is an insult within anime fandom. I'm highly defensive over
that. It's certainly very nice to know what they mean in Japan, but
when it's going to be applied to me, I only care what the fandom
definition is.
Jerry Shaw
>But the original poster I was replying to DIDN'T know it was an offensive
>term. He was saying that because it literally means "you" in Japanese,
>I was all wet. There ARE people out there than think Otaku is a complimentary
>label to be worn with pride the world over. I was merely setting the
>record straight.
I had a hard time keeping a straight face in my Japanese conversation class,
when our Japanese teacher kept asking us (and we had to reply) where our house
was:
"Otaku wa doko desu ka?"
> Vic
Jery
Dave Manning
> I don't consider myself a hardcore anime fan, but I could understand
> the adoption of an "offensive" name for serious fans of the genre. Lots of
> people adopt offensive names for various reasons...I think most of the
> anime fans are aware that "Otaku" is supposed to be offensive; *I* knew
> that before reading this thread, and I'm only a casual viewer of anime who
> knows very little Japanese. They've decided to adopt it as their name
> though, and I'd guess it's either because they're somehow proud of
> their...uh..."devotion," or because they're aware that others find it a bit
> silly and they mean it as a sort of tongue-in-cheek thing. IMHO, of
> course.
'Otaku' is actually the polite form of 'anata', which means 'you'.
Otaku is not a rude word. 'Anata' is a less polite word than 'otaku',
and you'll hear it fairly often. I've read that otaku was first used by
anime fans and early computer hackers on BBSes, and then for some reason
became quite rude. Perhaps some overly-sensitive Japanese group took
offense at it's being used by ignorant English speakers... I don't
know, but you want to know what sort of thing I find far ruder? Going
to japan and children were running up and down the street yelling
"Gaijin! Gaijin!" and pointing at me (which they would do for sure).
I'd get pretty angry.
</weird>
John Ricciardi
>But the original poster I was replying to DIDN'T know it was an offensive
>term. He was saying that because it literally means "you" in Japanese,
>I was all wet. There ARE people out there than think Otaku is a
complimentary
>label to be worn with pride the world over. I was merely setting the
>record straight.
Everyone in Japan that I've asked about what "otaku" means has said that
people who are considered to be otaku in Japan are looked upon as obsessive,
drooling geeks. Yes, it's definitely, DEFINITELY a negative term...I just
don't know if I'd call it offensive. Usually these drooling idiots are
pretty happy with their freak-ness. :)
-John
Pook!
> -Add a second opening which would display after ten or twenty seconds
> sitting at the title screen, using the same opening video but an
> instrumental version of "Yuzuu Negai". Please do not add in any in-game
> pictures. I really didn't like it when this was done with Alundra.
Actually, it was my understanding that the "second" opening in Alundra
was the original Japanese opening, game shots and all, completely
unchanged. That was one reason it was changed, I understood, since it
basically had a bunch of game spoilers in it and people weren't
interested in seeing in-game shots of the game they were going to be
playing in just a few minutes...what's the point?
One opening where the use of in-game shots was done well, however, is in
Azure Dreams. This game hasn't left my Playstation since I got it.
Speaking of which...
--Pook! ^_^ (Dashing back to her Playstation to see if she can make it
above level 12 in the tower this time... ;)
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Tenchi Masaki
plates and carved them thusly:
>Ken Arromdee wrote: This sounded plausible when Mixx's story was making the rounds.
>After all,
<snip>
>> So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_ want to
>> use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
>> otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
>
>Working Designs and Stu wanted to use a set of names like this I do not remember
>them all now
>
>Anemone Blaze and Luce
Well, two of those are names used in the Italian dub: Anemone (for Fuu) and Luce
(for Hikaru). The Italian sub name for Umi is Marina (this one sounds pretty, I
think). "luce" is the Italian word for light, and "Marina" is derived from
"mare" which means "sea". "Dunno about "Anemone", I think it's a flower...
>I always wanted to use the originals
Yes, that's the best solution.
>Both stories from Mixx and Working Designs are revisionist history or more precisely
>lies.
--
Tenchi wielding the Illumina sword
Venus and Moon shrine: http://members.dokom.de/MinakoAino/venus-and-moon.html
Official LAKACUA home: http://members.dokom.de/MinakoAino/lakacua.html
Mooniecode[1.8.12] SM:5+ F:sVe+++Mo>++½Ma>++:aUn>+Na:pS D:sCh--Tx---
X:a127G++:m12s+ O:o+a-h++ P:a++:s6:w128:f:eBL:hBr:t-½:cWh:y+:r|
--
Aino Minako * Tsukino Usagi * Lina Inverse * Amelia Wil Tesla Sairune * Ryoko *
Washu * Lum * Shampoo * Hanasaki Momoko * Soryu Langley Asuka * Ayanami Rei *
Yohko * Romanova Nene * Asagiri Priss * Yuri (Dirty Pair) * Kanzaki Akari *
Respighi Anna * Skuld * Nuku Nuku * Kagome * Pai
Tenchi Masaki
some stone plates and carved them thusly:
>In article <35dcdd7f...@news.west.net>, hik...@west.net (Hikaru
>Shidou) wrote:
>> If I recall, the original pilot for the US dub series (which was
>> rumored to be the ones WD will use on the RayEarth mailing list
>> waaay back when the Saturn game was first announced), they were
>> Luce, Marina, and Anemone.
>
> Ick. Hey, where could I get a copy of this pilot? I've seen clips
>from it, and it looked bizarre. I have a fetish for truly awful dubs-- I
>wonder if TMS would cough one up if I bugged them for it? ^^;
Well, while I really don't like "Anemone", and "Luce" isn't too good, I think
"Marina" is actually nice - but still surely not as good as the original name.
>> Stu's original name set was
>> Blaze, Nautia, and Windi.
>
> Double ick.
Good grief... those names are really goddamn awful ^_^;;
<snip>
Tenchi Masaki
carved them thusly:
>On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:51:11 -0700, vire...@workingdesigns.com
>(Victor Ireland) wrote:
>
>>Rayearth license is obtained, we plan to change the names
>
> Just out of curiosity, what names were thought of at WD back then
> (compared to the Luce/Marine/Anemone of Kodansha/TMS and the
> Blaze/Nautia/Windi of Stu/Mixx)?
Just a little note here... it was "Marina" and not "Marine", as I've already
seen several times. This first set of names is used in the Italian dub of MKR.
Concerning the *awful* second set of names, I really hope that it is *never*
used.
> (I want to add all the name-juggling in the RayEarth FAQ because
> I often get mail concerning the Knights' names in English... ^^;;)
Ok, perhaps you want to add the meanings as well ^_^ "Luce" is the Italian word
for "light", and "Marina" is derived from "mare" which means "sea". "Anemone" is
some sort of plant, I guess... dunno anything precise here.
>h
>
>listen to company hype, listen to supporters, listen to complaints,
>then decide for yourself where you stand and keep opinions to oneself.
Victor Ireland
says...
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, what names were thought of at WD back then
> > (compared to the Luce/Marine/Anemone of Kodansha/TMS and the
> > Blaze/Nautia/Windi of Stu/Mixx)?
>
> Just a little note here... it was "Marina" and not "Marine", as I've already
> seen several times. This first set of names is used in the Italian dub of MKR.
> Concerning the *awful* second set of names, I really hope that it is *never*
> used.
>
Nope. Sorry. I have the Kodansha FAX in PRINT and it says "Marine". The
dub we saw also said, quite clearly, Marine.
SailorWhitch
Tenchi Masaki <Minak...@impale-all-spammers.dokom.net> wrote in article
<35ebff89...@news.dokom.net>...
> Once upon a time, "Ron Scovil Jr." <rsc...@pacbell.net> grabbed some
stone
> plates and carved them thusly:
>
> >Ken Arromdee wrote: This sounded plausible when Mixx's story was making
the rounds.
> >After all,
>
> <snip>
>
> >> So is the Working Designs story true? Did Working Designs _really_
want to
> >> use the original Japanese names with the Japanese companies insisting
> >> otherwise? Or was it the reverse?
> >
> >Working Designs and Stu wanted to use a set of names like this I do
not remember
> >them all now
> >
> >Anemone Blaze and Luce
>
> Well, two of those are names used in the Italian dub: Anemone (for Fuu)
and Luce
> (for Hikaru). The Italian sub name for Umi is Marina (this one sounds
pretty, I
> think). "luce" is the Italian word for light, and "Marina" is derived
from
> "mare" which means "sea". "Dunno about "Anemone", I think it's a
flower...
I heard somewhere the meaning of "anemone" has something to do with wind...
I actually don't think that Luce, Marina, and Anemone are too bad. (But
Anemone, Blaze and Luce? Ew.) They retain the original meaning of the names
in an poetic, ethereal kind of sense. IIRC, when I was looking up Rayearth
a couple years ago on Kodansha's English website, that these were the
proposed English names as well. They might not have been these exactly, but
they were very similar. Nevertheless, I was impressed with them. I do like
the originals best, however.
SailorWhitch (go Hikaru!)
--
mooniecode[1.8.11]
<http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/towers/7933/mooniecode.txt>
SM:5+ F:sMo>Ma+[+]v:Zza:Arp:s X:a2r|32s++|65d+:m52r++17s+ O:ds?o-a-h
P:a+:s58:w:f:eBrD:hBr+[+]:t--[+]:x?:r+|-
The Home of Whopper Cow House
good time. lol =) cool cool
TakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoS
I am spinning round and round dizzy from you
The sky is dark they call it stormy weather
You look to God for him to show you light
Who's playing games playing with your feelings
I want your love
What can I do
I want to share do you dare to come to my life now
Just come inside and dream with me
I have a vision call I love fantasy
So come on and please hold me tight
Together we'll fly all thought every night
You know I've got nothing but love in my heart
Forget the past and let's start
Just wild heaven for you and for me
Winds are blowing in passion
Love is mystery
Just like dreamers we are living on lies
Who knows what the future may hold
A world full of laughter that we may create
Just like wild heaven..
By the way, is this too long? I am tired.
TerrryBear
Hikaru Shidou
<sailo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Tenchi Masaki <Minak...@impale-all-spammers.dokom.net> wrote in article
><35ebff89...@news.dokom.net>...
>>Dunno about "Anemone", I think it's a flower...
>I heard somewhere the meaning of "anemone" has something to do with wind...
It's both -- an anemone is known to some as a windflower. =)
Joe Ottoson
Shidou) wrote:
Err... Isn't an anemone a barely conscious sea creature that just sits on
the ocean floor waiting for food to float close enough so that it can stun
and then eat it?
Flattering name ;)
Ken Arromdee
Joe Ottoson <aj...@dim.com> wrote:
>Err... Isn't an anemone a barely conscious sea creature that just sits on
>the ocean floor waiting for food to float close enough so that it can stun
>and then eat it?
You're thinking of a sea anemone, which was named after the flower and is
probably more well-known. (Sea _anything_ is very much unlike whatever it is
named after.)
--
Ken Arromdee |They said it was *daft* to build a space
arro...@inetnow.net |station in a swamp, but I showed them! It
karr...@nyx.nyx.net |sank into the swamp. So I built a second
http://www.inetnow.net/~arromdee|space station. That sank into the swamp too.
--------------------------------+My third space station sank into the swamp.
So I built a fourth one. That fell into a time warp and _then_ sank into the
swamp. But the fifth one... stayed up! --Monty Python/Babylon 5