Goodness Eclipsed --- UN-eclipsed! Ep 119
Brian Friedman
The biggest things that were noticable:
Silence Glaive called Silence Scythe (Not that bad since they are considered
similar)
What exactly did Trista say Hotaru's name was? Hotoroh? -_-;;
One Word (actually it isnt really a word) : Babealicious -_-;;
In the original did they original say Saturn was the Sailor of Destruction?
Rainbow Moon Heart Ache --- ATTACK! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess since making the
VA for Sailormoon rush through the attack phrase the silence was kind of
awkard so they had to add something to say.
Why would Hotaru turn around? Hotoni? That doesnt remotely sound like Hotaru
^_^;;
I might not know my constellations but isn't it Scorpio, not Scorpius? That
sounds like the bad guy from Power Rangers.
They seem to enjoy adding the word Attack to everything including Charm
Buster.
Was that Twinkle Twinkle speech in the original?
What did Tuxedo Mask say? Dimone? Deemonay? I want to know!!!!
And....the part we all where waiting for : U Choten got Ryoko's Swimsuit!
Obviously the same cup size ^_-
ON the Plus Side:
They are Sailor Soldiers
Except for a few valley girls lines and stupid additions , the script
reamins basically the same.
--
Brian Friedman
MoonDefender!!!
The Keeper Of The Solar System
MoonStar00
Lloyd Gayman
"Brian Friedman" <pow...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:s6Sv5.10450$f_3.6...@news4.mco...
>
> Except for a few valley girls lines and stupid additions , the script
> reamins basically the same.
I haven't watched the dub for a (thankfully) long time now. I rely on the
newsgroup to tell me what they've screwed up. Apparently the dub added
something about the planet Saturn eclipsing (which is astronomically
impossible) that wasn't in the original.
Ian Andreas Miller
> Silence Glaive called Silence Scythe (Not that bad since they are considered
> similar)
Though "Silence Scythe" is accurate according to the Japanese, I wish
they used "Silence Glaive."
> In the original did they original say Saturn was the Sailor of Destruction?
If they said that, they're right on the money.
"Hametsu no senshi" = "soldier of destruction."
"Horobi no senshi" = "soldier of destruction."
Sailor Saturn's other epithets are:
"Hametsu to tanjo~ no senshi" = "soldier of ruin (or, destruction) and
birth."
"Chinmoku no senshi" = "soldier of silence."
Sailor Saturn has never, ever been called the "shi no saisei no senshi,"
the "soldier of death and rebirth."
> I might not know my constellations but isn't it Scorpio, not Scorpius? That
> sounds like the bad guy from Power Rangers.
The constellation, in astronomy, is called Scorpius. The Zodiac sign, in
astrology, is called Scorpio.
--
==================================================
Ian Andreas Miller -- Hotaru and Saturn lover.
"Hametsu to tanjo~ no senshi, Se~ra~ Sata~n."
"The soldier of ruin and birth, Sailor Saturn"
ICQ: 9968963 -- AIM: IanAMiller -- Hotaru is cute.
==================================================
Ian Andreas Miller
> Sailor Saturn has never, ever been called the "shi no saisei no senshi,"
> the "soldier of death and rebirth."
There's a typo in there. The Japanese phrase is "shi to saisei no
senshi." I was getting ahead of myself, I guess. Oh, well. Incidentally,
I was reading one of those astrology books by Sydney Omarr and he stated
that Saturn traditionally stands for destruction in astrology.
Chris Kern
<anta...@csd.uwm.edu> posted the following:
>Brian Friedman wrote:
>
>> Silence Glaive called Silence Scythe (Not that bad since they are considered
>> similar)
>
>Though "Silence Scythe" is accurate according to the Japanese, I wish
>they used "Silence Glaive."
Don't forget that in Episode 119, the English word "Glaive" appears (I
think Haruka says it).
-Chris
Alex Taylor
> Silence Glaive called Silence Scythe (Not that bad since they are considered
> similar)
Actually, it's mythologically accurate. The weapon is derived from
the sickle of Kronos, which is equated to a scythe in later
mythology, metaphorically appearing as the implement used by both
Father Time and Death.
> One Word (actually it isnt really a word) : Babealicious -_-;;
Who, Hotaru? Unfortunate choice of words, but I can't argue
with the sentiment... ^_^
--
Alex Taylor BA - CIS - University of Guelph
al...@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca http://eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca/~alex
Half of what he said was horse___t, but you were never sure
which half.
-- Mark Vorkosigan's observation on Miles Vorkosigan
(Lois McMaster Bujold, "A Civil Campaign")
Ian Andreas Miller
ke...@grinnell.edu (Chris Kern) wrote:
> Don't forget that in Episode 119, the English word "Glaive" appears (I
> think Haruka says it).
Haruka says, "chinmoku no kama" or "scythe of silence" and then Michiru
says, "Silence Glaive" (in accented English, of course). The reason why
the English word is mentioned is that the official name of the object is
"Silence Glaive." Two English words.
--
==================================================
Ian Andreas Miller -- Hotaru and Saturn lover.
"Hametsu to tanjo~ no senshi, Se~ra~ Sata~n."
"The soldier of ruin and birth, Sailor Saturn"
ICQ: 9968963 -- AIM: IanAMiller -- Hotaru is cute.
==================================================
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ian Andreas Miller
al...@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca (Alex Taylor) wrote:
> Actually, it's mythologically accurate. The weapon is derived from
> the sickle of Kronos,
Scholars have stated that Kronos, or Cronus, or Cronos, originally meant
something like "crow." By the historical period, Cronus was the father
of Zeus and the son of Ouranos. At that time, Cronus was called
"Kronon." He was no doubt an agricultural deity at one point in the
past.
I say "nyah" to those who claim that Takeuchi screwed up Sailor Saturn.
> which is equated to a scythe in later mythology, metaphorically
> appearing as the implement used by both Father Time and Death.
That's right. Just because "Cronus" sounded like "Chronos," the deity
was associated with time. They also thought Juno meant "air" because
the Greek (and Latin) words for "air," "aer" and "aura," sounded like
Hera, which is the name of the goddess' Greek counterpart.
> Who, Hotaru? Unfortunate choice of words, but I can't argue
> with the sentiment... ^_^
It's true! Hotaru will, in her universe, grow up to be a very fine young
woman! It's true! Really! She's a cute cutie!
http://members.tripod.com/~svmoon3/fanart168.jpg
Chocobo
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:36:29 -0500, Ian Andreas Miller
> <anta...@csd.uwm.edu> posted the following:
>
> >Brian Friedman wrote:
> >
> >> Silence Glaive called Silence Scythe (Not that bad since they are considered
> >> similar)
> >
> >Though "Silence Scythe" is accurate according to the Japanese, I wish
> >they used "Silence Glaive."
>
> Don't forget that in Episode 119, the English word "Glaive" appears (I
> think Haruka says it).
>
> -Chris
And don't forget about "Silence Glaive Surprise".
Alex Taylor
> > Actually, it's mythologically accurate. The weapon is derived from
> > the sickle of Kronos,
>
> Scholars have stated that Kronos, or Cronus, or Cronos, originally meant
> something like "crow." By the historical period, Cronus was the father
> of Zeus and the son of Ouranos. At that time, Cronus was called
> "Kronon." He was no doubt an agricultural deity at one point in the
> past.
>
> I say "nyah" to those who claim that Takeuchi screwed up Sailor Saturn.
Well, yeah, me too. You are talking to the guy who wrote a near
essay on the topic here a couple months ago... ^_-
> > which is equated to a scythe in later mythology, metaphorically
> > appearing as the implement used by both Father Time and Death.
>
> That's right. Just because "Cronus" sounded like "Chronos," the deity
> was associated with time. They also thought Juno meant "air" because
> the Greek (and Latin) words for "air," "aer" and "aura," sounded like
> Hera, which is the name of the goddess' Greek counterpart.
They were most likey aware of the inaccuracy, but it served
the physical allegorists' purposes to make the re-equation.
(Kinda sorry my university only offered one course on mythology,
it's always been an obsession of mine...)
> > Who, Hotaru? Unfortunate choice of words, but I can't argue
> > with the sentiment... ^_^
>
> It's true! Hotaru will, in her universe, grow up to be a very fine young
> woman! It's true! Really! She's a cute cutie!
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~svmoon3/fanart168.jpg
Yup. ^_^
(I've got to finish my own fanart...)
Munkustrap
> > Actually, it's mythologically accurate. The weapon is derived from
> > the sickle of Kronos,
>
> Scholars have stated that Kronos, or Cronus, or Cronos, originally meant
> something like "crow." By the historical period, Cronus was the father
> of Zeus and the son of Ouranos. At that time, Cronus was called
> "Kronon." He was no doubt an agricultural deity at one point in the
> past.
Crow? I wonder if your source is getting Cronos mixed up with Coronis.
From what I've read, the original of the name is said to be non-Greek,
(possibly from Asia-Minor) and the origin was unknown.
> I say "nyah" to those who claim that Takeuchi screwed up Sailor Saturn.
And I say, how can anyone possibly tell?
Why did she make Pluto the next scout to be discovered, when logically the
next Senshi to come along would be Saturn?
Saturn got the attack Death Reborn Revolution? Death, Rebirth, and
Revolution are all associated with Pluto. (Especially the Death and Rebirth
parts!) Pluto even calls herself the Senshi of Revolution, and that her
realm is in the land of the Dead. (Which Cronos is also associated with...)
Pluto says that she is descended from the God Cronos (or Chronos--say them
in Japanese--Can you tell the difference? It can't even been done in
English) her attack is Cronos Typhoon. Cronos is the Greek name for the
planet we call Saturn. It has been associated with age and time because the
planet would only be able to make two or three trips around the sun before a
person died. Cronos and Chronos have been associated for centuries. I'm
sure if you get a Japanese book on Greek Mythology or Astrology it'll most
likely reflect that association. Even current books in english haven't
corrected the "mistake" association of the two gods.
And the counter arguments that work just as well...
--
Jared, Mplo Aristophanes
> Somebody with a snipped name wrote:
> > Somebody else with a snipped name wrote:
> > I say "nyah" to those who claim that Takeuchi screwed up Sailor Saturn.
>
> And I say, how can anyone possibly tell?
Through careful examination, of course. :P
> Why did she make Pluto the next scout to be discovered, when logically the
> next Senshi to come along would be Saturn?
Why not? Why first Mercury, then Mars, and not Venus until last? Why
Neptune and Uranus at the same time? Why do they have any relationship
at all? Why is Jupiter considered in "Inner Senshi"? Why Moon and not
Earth? Why a crescent moon and not a full moon? Why? Why?
Wai! Who cares?
> Saturn got the attack Death Reborn Revolution? Death, Rebirth, and
> Revolution are all associated with Pluto. (Especially the Death and Rebirth
> parts!) Pluto even calls herself the Senshi of Revolution, and that her
> realm is in the land of the Dead. (Which Cronos is also associated with...)
Easy. Saturn is time.
> Pluto says that she is descended from the God Cronos (or Chronos--say them
> in Japanese--Can you tell the difference?
Yep. One is Chronos, the other is CRONUS. Not CronOs, CronUs.
--
Zucchini kawatte, oshioki no da!
Ian Andreas Miller
Munkustrap <munku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Crow? I wonder if your source is getting Cronos mixed up with
> Coronis.
Their names are no doubt related in some way. Coronis might have been a
feminine version of the name at one point. If anything, the word is
probably pre-Greek. There were different dialects in Greek, and there
are different stages of the language: ancient and modern, for instance.
In Homeric Greek, the sun god, Helius, is called "Aelios." In the Attic
dialect, he was called "Helios." In modern Greek he's "Elios." That's
why the character in Sailor Moon is called "Eriosu."
> From what I've read, the original of the name is said to be non-Greek,
> (possibly from Asia-Minor) and the origin was unknown.
That's probably right. Many of the sources I have looked at, and these
are scholarly sources, have stated that "crow" was the name's original
meaning. Even my comparative mythology professor was talking about
"crow" and Cronus. If anything, it's probably some old Indo-European
word. Or, it's an archaic Greek term.
> And I say, how can anyone possibly tell?
There are ways. I'll try to make it as clear as possible.
> Why did she make Pluto the next scout to be discovered, when logically
> the next Senshi to come along would be Saturn?
I don't see why they have to come in order. If Takeuchi was going for a
strict astronomical order, she would have made Sailor Mercury the first
soldier to regain her powers in the storyline. Instead, she had Sailor
Venus gain her powers in the "pre-Sailor Moon" Sailor V cycle.
This is like the argument about where to put a "Pluto" movement into
Holst's "The Planets" suite. People say that there's a problem with
putting Pluto after Neptune because, astronomically, the planet Pluto is
often the eighth planet instead of the ninth. Of course, they neglect to
see that the astronomical order of the planets is utterly irrelevant. If
Holst and Takeuchi were going by strict astronomical order, then Mercury
the Winged Messenger and Sailor Mercury would have been the first to be
introduced in the respective works (The Planets and Sailor Moon).
> Saturn got the attack Death Reborn Revolution? Death, Rebirth, and
> Revolution are all associated with Pluto. (Especially the Death and
> Rebirth parts!)
Wait a minute here. I have to admit that in terms of astrology, both
Pluto and Saturn have "death" and "rebirth" associations. This is
analogous to Sailor Mercury and Sailor Neptune's associations with
water: both Mercury and Neptune wield the powers of liquids. In a
similar way, Sailor Pluto and Sailor Saturn have powers that suggest
death. Sailor Pluto has the "Dead Scream" because of her mythological
associations (Pluto was equivalent to Hades, the absolute ruler of the
underworld) and Sailor Saturn has "Death Reborn Revolution" which is
reminiscent of Saturn's mythological role as a fertility deity (the
plants die off in the winter and grow back again in the spring).
Moreover, the planet Saturn, in astrology, has been connected with the
idea of death and destruction *centuries* before Pluto was every thought
of. If there's a traditional planet of death, it's Saturn! Anybody who
does anything with astrology will tell you that.
> Pluto even calls herself the Senshi of Revolution, and that
> her realm is in the land of the Dead.
The Japanese word "henkaku" is a strange word. It basically has to do
with the idea of "change." Really, it's any sort of change:
"revolution," "reform," upheaval," and words like that. In astrology,
the planet that is associated the most with change and transformation is
Pluto. This "hankaku no senshi" epithet that Sailor Pluto has is a
direct reference to astrology. All the words that "henkaku" suggests are
related to this planet in some way.
> (Which Cronos is also associated with...)
Cronus was only said to be the ruler of a small part of the underworld
called Elysion -- Elysium or the Elysian Fields. Pluto, or Hades, on the
other hand, was hands-down the absolute ruler of that area. Sailor Pluto
calls herself the "meikai no bannin," the "soldier of the underworld."
If there's a choice between making either Pluto or Saturn associated
with the underworld, Pluto's going to win all the time. In fact, the
underworld was called "Hades" and never "Cronus."
> Pluto says that she is descended from the God Cronos (or Chronos--say
> them in Japanese--Can you tell the difference?
Yes you can. Whenever the name is mentioned in the manga, the Kanji for
"time" is always used. There's never an exception. For this reason, the
word which Takeuchi wants to use is "Chronos" which is strictly one of
the Greek words for "time." The harvest deity Cronus is never associated
with Sailor Pluto at any point in the series.
> It can't even been done in English) her attack is Cronos Typhoon.
It's Chronos Typhoon. Look at the Kanji for "time." It really has
nothing to do with Cronus, the scythe-wielding father of Zeus. There is
a distinction explicitly being made.
Incidentally, Pluto's associations with time in the Sailor Moon universe
is the result of a pun. In the Hellenistic period, the scythe-wielding
father-deity of Zeus, Cronus, was said to be the same as "chronos," the
word for "time" just because the two terms sounded alike. If you
remember your mythology, Hades, or Pluto, was the son of Cronus. In
Sailor Moon, Sailor Pluto (who represents Hades or Pluto) is the
daughter of Chronos, the abstraction-deity of time. In Japanese, there
is no difference in the spelling of "Cronus" and "Chronos"; both names
are spelled, unfortunately, "Kuronosu." The only way to figure out the
difference is by context: Cronus was the father of Zeus and "chronos" is
Greek for "time." So, in Japanese, Sailor Pluto was an offspring of
"Kuronosu" and Hades was an offspring of "Kuronosu." Since Sailor Pluto
is the only one in the series who claims to carry the blood of Chronos
(this deity is a tad different from his Greek counterpart, in much of
the same was as Prince Endymion is different from his mythological
counterpart), she has the right to wield the powers of time and space. I
find this little playing with words clever, really.
> Cronos is the Greek name for the planet we call Saturn.
This is indeed the name that Aristotle gave to that planet. In China,
the planet was called the "Soil Star" and Saturn was originally a deity
of the harvest. Fundamentally, Saturn is a gloomy deity of agriculture.
The word saturnine means "gloomy" and one can say that the word conveys
an idea of "lack of or unwillingness for movement."
> It has been associated with age and time because the planet would only
> be able to make two or three trips around the sun before a person
> died.
Don't forget the Cronus and Chronos connections with Saturn. The Romans
said the their Saturn was the same as Cronus not because of Cronus'
assocations with time necessarily (but it's not out of the question,
mind you), but because of Saturn's assocation with agriculture and the
scythe. If the concept of time was the deciding factor, then Saturn
wouldn't been chosen. A Roman deity who was an abstraction of time would
have been said to be the same as Cronus.
> Cronos and Chronos have been associated for centuries.
This equation isn't very old, however. It was the Stoic philosophers in
the Hellenistic period who made this connection because they were
exploring the etymology behind these names. They thought that words were
related just because they sounded alike. Today, we know for certain that
these two terms aren't related.
> I'm sure if you get a Japanese book on Greek Mythology or Astrology
> it'll most likely reflect that association.
Well, you're going to notice that Cronus and Chronos are both spelled
the same way in Japanese. The only way to tell the difference is by
context, as I have pointed out above. Moreover, Classical mythology is a
difficult subject. Nothing was "written in stone," so to speak, and
there are many, many different versions of almost every myth. You can't
simply say that so and so did such and such in Greek mythology. The best
thing to do is say something like, "according to the Greek poet so and
so, so and and so did this and that to this other individual."
> Even current books in english haven't corrected the "mistake"
> association of the two gods. And the counter arguments that work just
> as well...
Astrologically and mythologically, Pluto and Saturn have been associated
with some of the same things. Death and rebirth just happen to be two
themes. Astrologically, Saturn was the first planet of death and ruin.
When Pluto was discovered (in this century!) it automatically became a
symbol of death because of Pluto's associations with the underworld.
Pluto also became a symbol of upheaval and change. Now, it's the planet
of change. Both Saturn and Pluto are said to be the rulers of Karma, and
karma is related to fate. Both concepts are related to time, of course.
So, to put it simply, both planets have associations with death, time,
rebirth, fertility, and the like. How to tell them apart? Well:
Saturn was the original astrological planet of destruction. The scythe
is his symbol. Sailor Saturn wields the Silence Glaive. The Glaive has
always been referred to generally as a "kama," a "scythe."
Pluto is the astrological planet of change, upheaval, revolution, and
transformation (though Uranus also has some revolution associations, but
let's put that aside for the moment). It's the planet that's always
associated with the dark and mysterious realm of the underworld. Sailor
Pluto has been called the guardian of the underworld. Not only that,
the Space-Time Door is also located in the underworld.
There really isn't any real mistake. Saturn and Pluto are just two
planets that have been associated with similar themes.
Perfect Chaos
>
> Munkustrap wrote:
> > Somebody with a snipped name wrote:
> > > Somebody else with a snipped name wrote:
> > > I say "nyah" to those who claim that Takeuchi screwed up Sailor Saturn.
> >
> > And I say, how can anyone possibly tell?
>
> Through careful examination, of course. :P
>
> > Why did she make Pluto the next scout to be discovered, when logically the
> > next Senshi to come along would be Saturn?
>
> Why not? Why first Mercury, then Mars, and not Venus until last? Why
> Neptune and Uranus at the same time? Why do they have any relationship
> at all? Why is Jupiter considered in "Inner Senshi"?
Because she blows royally! *runs*
>Why Moon and not
> Earth?
Then Mamo-chump wouldn't get to hop into a tux and spout fruity
speeches! *runs*
>Why a crescent moon and not a full moon? Why? Why?
Because no one wants to see Umino's ass!
>
> Wai! Who cares?
>
> > Saturn got the attack Death Reborn Revolution? Death, Rebirth, and
> > Revolution are all associated with Pluto. (Especially the Death and Rebirth
> > parts!) Pluto even calls herself the Senshi of Revolution, and that her
> > realm is in the land of the Dead. (Which Cronos is also associated with...)
>
> Easy. Saturn is time.
>
> > Pluto says that she is descended from the God Cronos (or Chronos--say them
> > in Japanese--Can you tell the difference?
>
> Yep. One is Chronos, the other is CRONUS. Not CronOs, CronUs.
>
> --
> Zucchini kawatte, oshioki no da!
--
Reg de gozaru no da
Ian Andreas Miller
> Through careful examination, of course. :P
That's true. The themes of Pluto and Saturn deserve careful examination.
> Easy. Saturn is time.
Saturn was originally an agricultural deity. He was associated with Cronus
because Cronus was also a agricultural deity. However, Cronus was thought
to be the same as "chronos" or "time." Saturn had more to do with farming
than with time, historically and mythologically. Besides the usual "time"
theme associated with fertility deities, Saturn, when it came to Cronus,
was always two steps away from Chronos, the Greek concept of time.
> Yep. One is Chronos, the other is CRONUS. Not CronOs, CronUs.
Cronus, the father of Zeus and the one who wielded the scythe, has a name
that can be written Cronos or Kronos or Kronus. As long as the "h" isn't
after the "c" everything is fine. The Greek letter Kappa is transliterated
into Latin letters as "k" or "c."
Chronos is written the way it is because the Greek letter Chi is
transliterated into Latin letters as "ch" or "kh." You might see
"Khronos" instead of "Chronos."
Ian Andreas Miller
> >Why is Jupiter considered in "Inner Senshi"?
>
> Because she blows royally! *runs*
There's a better reason, really. In astrology, Jupiter is said to be one
of the inner planets. The astrology book called "Mysteries Of The Unknown
- Cosmic Connections" says:
"Astrology considers Saturn to be an intermediary between the inner,
personal planets [Mars, Venus, Mercury, and Jupiter] and the outer,
"transpersonal" planets [Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto], those that govern
the wider environment beyond the self and an individual's interaction with
it."
Ian Andreas Miller
> Sailor Pluto calls herself the "meikai no bannin," the "soldier of the
> underworld."
Another typo. Make that "guardian of the underworld."
Ian Andreas Miller
> Well, yeah, me too.
Those who say that it's mixed up need to study mythology, astrology, and
a little bit more about the original Sailor Moon for good measure.
> You are talking to the guy who wrote a near
> essay on the topic here a couple months ago... ^_-
You're talking to another guy who did the same thing in the past.
> They were most likey aware of the inaccuracy, but it served
> the physical allegorists' purposes to make the re-equation.
They justified their claim with the idea of "time eats away at
everything" or something similar.
> (Kinda sorry my university only offered one course on mythology,
> it's always been an obsession of mine...)
Don't restrict yourself to mythology! Sailor Moon doesn't just pull ideas
from mythology! Astrology also plays an important role, you know.
> Yup. ^_^
She'll be twenty years old and she'll be all ripe for the picking!
> (I've got to finish my own fanart...)
Fan art? Any Hotaru images?
DOSIUS
The -us ending in Latin corresponds to the -os ending in Greek. Most
forms in English are based on the Latin forms. I have never seen Cronus
per se used in anything, and the Cronus you refer to I have always heard
called Chronos.
--
Dosius - hobbyist computer programmer and translator
"Kompyuutaa-ni kawatte oshioki-yo!"
(I have my own free-mail site! Visit http://dosius.zzn.com for info)
Munkustrap
> > I say "nyah" to those who claim that Takeuchi screwed up Sailor Saturn.
> >
> > And I say, how can anyone possibly tell?
>
> Through careful examination, of course. :P
With enough holes in either one to strain raamen?
> > Why did she make Pluto the next scout to be discovered, when logically the
> > next Senshi to come along would be Saturn?
>
> Why not? Why first Mercury, then Mars, and not Venus until last? Why
> Neptune and Uranus at the same time? Why do they have any relationship
> at all? Why is Jupiter considered in "Inner Senshi"? Why Moon and not
> Earth? Why a crescent moon and not a full moon? Why? Why?
Mercury, (Venus is skipped because she was made before the rest of them,) Mars,
Jupiter, and finally Venus.
> > Saturn got the attack Death Reborn Revolution? Death, Rebirth, and
> > Revolution are all associated with Pluto. (Especially the Death and Rebirth
> > parts!) Pluto even calls herself the Senshi of Revolution, and that her
> > realm is in the land of the Dead. (Which Cronos is also associated with...)
>
> Easy. Saturn is time.
Then why does PLUTO have that power?
> > Pluto says that she is descended from the God Cronos (or Chronos--say them
> > in Japanese--Can you tell the difference?
>
> Yep. One is Chronos, the other is CRONUS. Not CronOs, CronUs.
So I guess Helios isn't the God of the Sun anymore because that's a Roman
variation on the spelling, ne?
And then Sailor Uranus has to have her name change to Sailor Oranos.
Ian Andreas Miller
> > Easy. Saturn is time.
>
> Then why does PLUTO have that power?
She has that power because of a sly little pun. In the manga, Sailor
Pluto states that she is the daughter of Chronos, the deity of time. In
ancient Greek mythology, Hades (who was said to also be Pluto) was son
of Cronus. In Japanese "Chronos" and "Cronus" are written the same way,
"Kuronosu." So, basically, Sailor Pluto is the daughter of "Kuronosu"
and Hades was a son of "Kuronosu." In Takeuchi's mythology, Sailor Pluto
is the one who has inherited the power of her father, Chronos (a name
that's associated with the kanji for "time" in the manga). It's her
birthright.
Munkustrap
> power of her father, Chronos (a name
> that's associated with the kanji for "time" in the manga). It's her
> birthright.
Chronos or Kronus, how can one tell? Is there a different kanji group to
set them apart?
--
Ian Andreas Miller
> Chronos or Kronus, how can one tell? Is there a different kanji group to
> set them apart?
Again, the Kanji that's always used is the one for "time." Chronos
Typhoon? The Kanji used is "time." The father of Sailor Pluto is always
associated with time. Never with soil or agriculture. Cronus was a harvest
deity like Saturn. That was the name that Aristotle gave to the planet.
Wouldn't the Kanji for "soil" be used if the harvest deity Cronus was
meant? Isn't the planet Saturn the "Soil Star"?
Alex Taylor
> > (Kinda sorry my university only offered one course on mythology,
> > it's always been an obsession of mine...)
>
> Don't restrict yourself to mythology! Sailor Moon doesn't just pull ideas
> from mythology! Astrology also plays an important role, you know.
Was never that all that into astrology, though...
> > Yup. ^_^
>
> She'll be twenty years old and she'll be all ripe for the picking!
Will be? Twenty is well above legal age...
> > (I've got to finish my own fanart...)
>
> Fan art? Any Hotaru images?
Just posted it today.
http://eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca/~alex/art/art.html
Ian Andreas Miller
> Was never that all that into astrology, though...
Personally, I don't believe in it at all. I just think it's interesting.
> Will be? Twenty is well above legal age...
Oh, in her universe, she'll be twenty and ready! Nice and tender!
> Just posted it today.
Oh, the naked picture is cute! I think my friend Will will love it!