Liberals Support Central Park Rapists
Liberals HATE America ------
The BRILLIANT Ann Coulter - December 4, 2002
HOPING FOR A different result, journalists are re-litigating the Central
Park rape case in their pages, skipping the fuss and bother of the adversary
process. The New York Times recently announced that "so far," there is
"almost nothing to back the original findings of guilt." That's if you don't
count 10 videotaped confessions and five guilty verdicts rendered by two
duly constituted juries.
But don't fall for the cheap substitute of a trial by jury when there are
one-sided accounts available in the pages of the Times!
As part of the media's continuing series on how every criminal is innocent,
except asbestos manufacturers and abortion clinic protesters, the Los
Angeles Times said of the Central Park rapists: "Jurors were swayed by
physical evidence during the trial, such as a blond hair apparently from the
victim found on one teenager's clothes. New forensic testing has shown that
the hair did not come from the jogger."
If reporters bothered to do research rather than accepting whatever the
"Innocence Project" tells them, they would know that the lone hair evidence
used against defendant Kevin Richardson could not possibly have "swayed" the
jurors.
According to AP reports at the time, the most powerful testimony about the
hairs found on Richardson's clothes came from a detective who boldly
proclaimed: The hairs "could have" come from the jogger. On
cross-examination, he admitted that "he could not determine that a hair
definitely came from a specific individual." He also said "that hair could
end up on someone's clothing by casual contact or from being airborne."
On the other hand, evidence tending to implicate Richardson included this:
-- He led prosecutors to the scene of the crime.
-- There were dirt and grass stains in the crotch of his undershorts.
-- He confessed on videotape to being at the scene of the attack.
-- He gave a detailed description of the attack.
-- He admitted that the deep scratch wound on his cheek was inflicted by
the jogger.
But wait! The "Innocence Project" has produced an 11th-hour confession from
a sixth rapist, Matias Reyes. Stunning no one but gullible reporters, he
claims he acted alone. As is always the case with surprise confessions
exonerating others, Reyes faces no penalty for this confession. To the
contrary, Reyes is surely the toast of his cellblock -- where, by
happenstance, he is serving time with another Central Park rapist, Kharey
Wise. The statute of limitations has run on the rape and Reyes is already
serving life in prison.
Compare Reyes' new confession to the videotaped confessions of the five
animals back in 1989. Their confessions would land them in prison. These
were "statements against interest" in the strongest sense of the phrase. And
yet, they still confessed. Their confessions were tested in court, attacked
by defense counsel, and believed by two unanimous juries.
But liberals treat these confessions as laughable frauds. Only Reyes'
literally inconsequential confession is treated like Holy Scripture.
The odds of an innocent man being found guilty by a unanimous jury are
basically nil. When the media assert a convict was "exonerated," they mean
his conviction was thrown out on a technicality. Up and down the criminal
justice system, guilty criminals are constantly being set free. Evidence of
guilt is thrown out at the drop of a hat. Not so, evidence of innocence. The
criminal justice system is a one-way, pro-defendant ratchet. So is the
media, the difference being, in court, evidence of guilt is not actually
prohibited.
Consider only the odds of a false confession leading to a conviction. If the
judge believes a confession is not an expression of free will, the
confession will be thrown out. If the jury believes a confession is not an
expression of free will, the confession will be thrown out. If an appeals
court finds the confession was not voluntary, it will be thrown out. If the
police fail to read the suspect his Miranda rights, the confession will be
thrown out. If the defendant lyingly claims he was not read his Miranda
rights and gets some appeals court to believe him, the confession will be
thrown out. If the police question a juvenile outside the presence of his
parents, the confession will be thrown out.
The videotaped confessions of the animals convicted in the Central Park
attack were not thrown out. They were admitted into evidence and believed by
two unanimous juries.
In 10 videotaped statements, members of the wolf pack implicated one another
as well as themselves. They corroborated aspects of one another's stories.
The police obtained statements from literally dozens of teenagers who were
in the park the night the jogger was attacked. In the end, only five of
those who gave statements were prosecuted for the attack on the jogger.
Consider that when the savages confessed, it was still possible that the
jogger would emerge from her coma, remember everything, and identify her
attackers with blinding clarity. Of course, if that had happened, we would
now be reading copious articles in The New York Times about how head
injuries can easily distort memory and render eyewitness testimony
unreliable.
It is more likely that the Central Park jogger was raped by space aliens
than that Matias Reyes acted alone. But through their loud-mouthed lobbying
in the media, criminal defense lawyers are determined to turn these beasts
into their latest Sacco and Vanzetti case.
--
"God Bless America, land that I love. Stand beside her, and guide her,
through the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the
prairies, to the oceans white with foam. God Bless America, my Home Sweet
Home"
limbaugh_fart_detector
<LiberalsHATEAmeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park Rapists
>
>The BRILLIANT Ann Coulter - December 4, 2002
>
>HOPING FOR A different result, journalists are re-litigating the Central
>Park rape case in their pages, skipping the fuss and bother of the adversary
>process. The New York Times recently announced that "so far," there is
>"almost nothing to back the original findings of guilt." That's if you don't
>count 10 videotaped confessions and five guilty verdicts rendered by two
>duly constituted juries.
The same logic supports the conclusion that OJ Simpson is not a
murderer.
Is Coulter another Circus Clown or what?
Liberals HATE America ------
<Limbaugh Fart Detector> wrote in message
news:3df39106...@news.supernews.com...
> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:09 -0500, "Liberals HATE America ------"
> <LiberalsHATEAmeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park Rapists
> >
> >The BRILLIANT Ann Coulter - December 4, 2002
> >
> >HOPING FOR A different result, journalists are re-litigating the Central
> >Park rape case in their pages, skipping the fuss and bother of the
adversary
> >process. The New York Times recently announced that "so far," there is
> >"almost nothing to back the original findings of guilt." That's if you
don't
> >count 10 videotaped confessions and five guilty verdicts rendered by two
> >duly constituted juries.
>
>
> The same logic supports the conclusion that OJ Simpson is not a
> murderer.
>
> Is Coulter another Circus Clown or what?
Translation: I cannot refute a single fact in this article so I will make
some typical left-wing America-Hating cheap shot.
John M Price PhD
: <Limbaugh Fart Detector> wrote in message
What facts? The DNA evidence? Or are you and the BRILLIANT Coulter
suggesting that people can have semen which is a different DNA than their
blood? (There is precedent for that, in the USSR, where a botched test
led the forensic scientist to make such a silly claim).
Are you and the BRILLIANT coulter suggesting that the failure of the
'confessions' to converge on facts exonerates the police for failing to
follow strict interview techniques meant to insure that any cinfessions
will be usable in court? And final?
You are flat out a fucking fool, here. That you want to believe the worst
in folk is a serious problem, especially when you have at hand the real
criminal, presently, and thankfully, already in prison.
Sheesh. Go to Singapore. Guilt is assumed. You'd be very happy.
--
John M. Price, PhD jmp...@calweb.com
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
John M Price PhD
: Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park Rapists
: The BRILLIANT Ann Coulter - December 4, 2002
: The odds of an innocent man being found guilty by a unanimous jury are
: basically nil. When the media assert a convict was "exonerated," they mean
God she is stupid. I truly hope she is falsely accused of some heinous
crime. Maybe that is what it will take for her to truly understand.
Well, hmmm, no, I don't. Scratch that. Justice should be for all,
irrespective of their lack of IQ and reasoning skills.
David Friedman
evidence on the basis of which the prosecutor now recommends that the
five be turned loose?
limbaugh_fart_detector
<LiberalsHATEAmeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
><Limbaugh Fart Detector> wrote in message
>news:3df39106...@news.supernews.com...
>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:09 -0500, "Liberals HATE America ------"
>> <LiberalsHATEAmeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park Rapists
>> >
>> >The BRILLIANT Ann Coulter - December 4, 2002
>> >
>> >HOPING FOR A different result, journalists are re-litigating the Central
>> >Park rape case in their pages, skipping the fuss and bother of the
>adversary
>> >process. The New York Times recently announced that "so far," there is
>> >"almost nothing to back the original findings of guilt." That's if you
>don't
>> >count 10 videotaped confessions and five guilty verdicts rendered by two
>> >duly constituted juries.
>>
>>
>> The same logic supports the conclusion that OJ Simpson is not a
>> murderer.
>>
>> Is Coulter another Circus Clown or what?
>
>Translation: I cannot refute a single fact in this article so I will make
>some typical left-wing America-Hating cheap shot.
>
The Circus Clown Coulter piece was long on invective and short on
substance.
Are you prepared to argue that jury verdicts are (almost) conclusive
of truth, cause that is what your Circus Clown seemed to say.
I guess OJ Simpson is truly innocent according to Circus Clown
Coulter.
>
limbaugh_fart_detector
This passes muster as "journalism" to those who listen in awe to
Circus Clowns.
limbaugh_fart_detector
wrote:
>In alt.radio.talk.dr-laura article <3df38...@news.meganetnews.com> Liberals HATE America ------ <LiberalsHATEAmeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>: Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park Rapists
>
>: The BRILLIANT Ann Coulter - December 4, 2002
>
>: The odds of an innocent man being found guilty by a unanimous jury are
>: basically nil. When the media assert a convict was "exonerated," they mean
>
>God she is stupid. I truly hope she is falsely accused of some heinous
>crime. Maybe that is what it will take for her to truly understand.
>Well, hmmm, no, I don't. Scratch that. Justice should be for all,
>irrespective of their lack of IQ and reasoning skills.
>
>
No you had it right the first time. Poetic justice is sometimes more
important than actual justice.
Marc Satterwhite
No, you didn't miss it. It wasn't there. Big surprise.
Nor did she mention anywhere the it was the
PROSECUTORS (most other people, like yourself,
managed not to overlook that fact) who recommended that the
convictions be overturned. Last time I looked, prosecutors
were not noted for their liberal politics or bleeding-heart
sympathies for those accused, let alone convicted, of
serious crimes.
Nor did she mention that DNA evidence has freed many
people wrongly convicted from Death Row, and many other
people falsely convicted but not facing death.
Nor did she mention how easy it is to obtain false confessions,
especially from young people. (There's a TV movie on this
week on Court TV about this very issue. I can't vouch for
its accuracy, but it's certainly timely.) Indeed, she seems to
discount the very notion that someone could make a false
confession.
Nor did she mention scandals involving tainted evidence,
perjured testimony and other misconduct that have called
convictions into question in several jurisdictions.
She made many wild assertions, and didn't back any of them
with cites or evidence. In other words, typical Coulter.
All that said, I am reasonably sure that most criminal
convictions are legit. I have no reason to doubt that
most cops are honest. But "most" is a long way from
"all," and people of honor in the judicial system must
be willing to admit it when errors occur, no matter
how embarrasing. Kudos to the prosecutors in this
case for doing the right thing.
Nobody is claiming that these kids are choirboys, but
the time they have served is at least what they would
have served for the crimes they actually committed
that day, which is why they prosecutors advocated
they be released.
Best, Marc
John M Price PhD
: Did I miss it, or was there no mention in the Coulter piece of the DNA
: five be turned loose?
You can't miss what isn't there. She did not report that little tidbit.
And they are presently 'loose'. They still have to register as sex
offenders and state they are felons. That will be lifted.
In an interesting comment, I heard someone say that this isn't really
'innocence', simply the same as a not guilty verdict.
Gee, in that case, we are all criminals, just 'not guilty' at the present
time.
John M Price PhD
: Nobody is claiming that these kids are choirboys, but
: the time they have served is at least what they would
: have served for the crimes they actually committed
: that day, which is why they prosecutors advocated
: they be released.
Last I heard was they are not in prison at this time.
But, I wonder, just what crimes had they committed 'that day'?
gk
news:3df403b9....@news.tn.comcast.giganews.com...
> What about one of the victim's hair being found on one of
> the convicted rapists? Can any of you explain away that?
Yes. Recent DNA evidence shows that It wasn't the victim's hair.
John M Price PhD
: What about one of the victim's hair being found on one of
: the convicted rapists? Can any of you explain away that?
What about NONE of the the convicted's DNA not being found IN the victim?
Can you explain that?
As to the hair, that has been covered in this thread. 1) it was one
hair. 2) it may not have been her hair. 3) it could have gotten there by
any of various means. 3) if you are in a fight, you'd get more than just
one hair.
: On The Date Of Sun, 08 Dec 2002 20:26:15 GMT, Limbaugh Fart
: Detector Wrote The Followng:
: ->On 08 Dec 2002 19:45:19 GMT, John M Price PhD
: <jmp...@calweb.com>
: ->wrote:
: ->
: ->>In alt.radio.talk.dr-laura article
: <3df38...@news.meganetnews.com> Liberals HATE America
: ------ <LiberalsHATEAmeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
: ->>: Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park
: Rapists
: ->>
: ->>: The BRILLIANT Ann Coulter - December 4, 2002
: ->>
: ->>: The odds of an innocent man being found guilty by a
: unanimous jury are
: ->>: basically nil. When the media assert a convict was
: "exonerated," they mean
: ->>
: ->>God she is stupid. I truly hope she is falsely accused
: of some heinous
: ->>crime. Maybe that is what it will take for her to truly
: understand.
: ->>Well, hmmm, no, I don't. Scratch that. Justice should
: be for all,
: ->>irrespective of their lack of IQ and reasoning skills.
: ->>
: ->>
: ->
: ->No you had it right the first time. Poetic justice is
: sometimes more
: ->important than actual justice.
: ->
: ->
: ->>
: ->>--
: ->>John M. Price, PhD
: jmp...@calweb.com
: ->>Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on
: request or FTP!
: ->>Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated
: Atheist# 683
Z
: Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park Rapists
A bunch of these kids, violent criminals that they are, were
wrongly convicted and MUST BE released ASAP. NO ONE and I mean
NO ONE can justify a wrongful conviction of an innocent person,
even when that person has a longh arrest record (like these kids
do).
The good news is that if they don't change their ways, they'll
all be dead or back in jail shortly. And then it'll be for some-
thing theyt DID do.
Michael Ejercito
> In alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Liberals HATE America ------ <LiberalsHATEAmeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> : Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park Rapists
>
> A bunch of these kids, violent criminals that they are, were
> wrongly convicted and MUST BE released ASAP. NO ONE and I mean
> NO ONE can justify a wrongful conviction of an innocent person,
> even when that person has a longh arrest record (like these kids
> do).
Michael
Mason Clark
>Did I miss it, or was there no mention in the Coulter piece of the DNA
>evidence on the basis of which the prosecutor now recommends that the
>five be turned loose?
I haven't been following this story, so may have it all wrong. However,
my understanding is that there is no doubt that the five were at least
accessories to the crime. They were there. The DNA indicates that
another person did the actual rape. A retrial may be called for but
the five would almost certainly be found guilty of a crime calling for
essentially the same punishment. Did the prosecutor recommend
that the five be turned loose? I don't think so. The newspaper reports
I read were very careless in their wording (not unusual).
Mason C
Stupendous Man
> evidence on the basis of which the prosecutor now recommends that the
> five be turned loose?
As the prosecutor put it (IIRC): all it does is prove there was one more person guilty, not that everyone else is innocent.
Unless someone can demonstrate improper procedure on the part of the police, the taped confessions are pretty damning evidence of their guilt.
Stupendous Man—Enemy of Terrorism
The USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) returns to Pearl Harbor:
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/vinson/vin-arizmem.jpg
Stupendous Man
Lack of sperm doesn't mean a rape didn't occur.
Stupendous Man—Enemy of Terrorism
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/t-roosevelt/tr-stbdside.jpg
Julian D.
wrote:
Some will find their way back to prison.
JD
"100% of the successful terrorist attacks on
commercial airlines for 20 years have been committed
by Arabs. When there is a 100% chance, it ceases to
be a profile. It's called a 'description of the
suspect.'" - Ann Coulter
"Ah yes, we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction
because otherwise .. they might get mad and seek our destruction."
- Ann Coulter 9/26/2002
'Conservatives believe IN America, liberals believe in and worry about
what other countries SAY about America.'
-Me
'All I really need to know about Islam, I learned on September 11.'
-Me
topcat
Julian D wrote:
>
>
> Some will find their way back to prison.
>
>
That's a certainty. Of course, we don't know who will need to be killed,
raped or mugged before that happens.
TC
Neil
> On 2002-12-08 3:12 PM, in news article
> <ddfr-FC7670.1...@sea-read.news.verio.net>, someone who goes by
> "David Friedman" apparently from <dd...@daviddfriedman.com> typed:
>
> > Did I miss it, or was there no mention in the Coulter piece of the DNA
> > evidence on the basis of which the prosecutor now recommends that the
> > five be turned loose?
>
> I think she was focusing on the other people who had already been convicted.
>
> As the prosecutor put it (IIRC): all it does is prove there was one more
> person guilty, not that everyone else is innocent.
>
> Unless someone can demonstrate improper procedure on the part of the police,
> the taped confessions are pretty damning evidence of their guilt.
>
I must admit to being impressed with *some* of Coulter's arguments,
but she falls into the usual Rushroid stance of omitting key points
and blowharding to a conclusion that is in excess of what reason
suggests. I am also impressed with the detail points that some of you
have brought up about the case (they could be accessories, they might
not have deposited DNA, which the frequent failure of coitus
interruptus makes me doubt some, but...)
However, be that as it may, Coulter still exhibits shoddy journalism
by not mentioning the DNA evidence. She should have mentioned it, and
made the same sort of points that you are making. Second, many people
really are wrongly convicted, this is shown by DNA evidence (in
simpler cases of one-on-one especially), and Coulter should have
acknowledged that. Finally, her bombastic style only serves to turn
off open-minded thinkers like me who would otherwise be more
interested in hearing such pieces of unconventional could-be-wisdom.
Preaching to the choir is stupid, not brilliant.
Neil Bates
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
See the original 1948 Strom Thurmond ballot at www.democrats.com
Check out www.ariannaonline.com for intelligent, eloquent,
public-interest commentary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
peacebeuponyou2000
Why are liberals always willing to treat a serial rapist as some
sort of beacon of truth, and always believe officers of the law are
the most untrustworthy beings in the universe. Unfucking believable.
I say, if there ain't a white mob waiting outside for those shits as
they walk out, America is spiritually dead.
How can a psychopath like Mattias Reyes(the mexican) do even more
damage from behind bars?? well, he can't rape anymore women, but he
can make up some bullshit story to get a bunch of nigger rapists out
so they can carry on his ambitions. they all are brothers in the
struggle.
Robert
This is just a case of the liberal media and a bunch of soft hearted
liberals wanting these guys to get off just because there minorityes.
They CONFESED and thats enough. This is just like that soft hearted
govrner in Illinois letting all those criminals excape there death
sentences. When will the victims begin to have clozure on there crimes
with all this catering to criminals.
Even if they didnt do this crime they did others so they should pay.
Stupendous Man
>...Finally, her bombastic style only serves to turn
> off open-minded thinkers like me who would otherwise be more
> interested in hearing such pieces of unconventional could-be-wisdom.
> Preaching to the choir is stupid, not brilliant.
Her "me, me, me" style of being interviewed rubs me the wrong way.
Stupendous Man—The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance!
USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) launching fighters on Christmas night:
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/stennis/sten-hornxmas.jpg
Neil
A telling shot from another fan of Strom Thurmond as he was. Even
though confessions prove little, others here have already pointed out
the slandering We're-slander-victims whiner's gross omission of new
DNA evidence. Sure, the kids may still have beat up the lady, etc., so
we'll probably never know what really happened - but to leave out
facts is intellectually criminal.
Second, why are conservatives so willing to assume that the government
always gets its law enforcement act together, yet are always making
fun of how incompetent it is? If big G is so unable to manage the
economy, the environment, etc., I don't see why they would be so sharp
in the criminal justice area. Let's see hack "Mallard" deal with that.
Why not act like you really believe your posting handle?
Neil
Marc Satterwhite
I don't remember the details, but they did in fact commit some
assaults that day, but nothing even approaching the level of the
rape/near-murder they were convicted of.
They certainly deserved some jail time for those acts. But it is
all but certain they had nothing to do with the rape.
Best, Marc
Some call me...Tim
What's your point? Are you advocating some kind of preventive
detention?
--
"I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for
president we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest
of the country had of followed our lead we wouldn't of had all
these problems over all these years, either."
--Trent Lott talking about the single issue presidential
campaign Strom ran on his segregationist "Dixiecrat" ticket.
Some call me...Tim
> I must admit to being impressed with *some* of Coulter's
> arguments
Really? Please share one with us.
topcat
Some call me...Tim wrote:
>
> What's your point? Are you advocating some kind of preventive
> detention?
>
My point is that career criminals are just that. Because for some people
there is no such thing as rehabilitation we (society) have to deal with the
miscreants preying on us time and time again until generally they really
screw up and end up in the pokey (an apt name for jail given what goes on
there, don't you think?) for a good amount of time. Julian and I are betting
the newly "innocent" used-to-be confessed but now we didn't do anything
rapists have good odds of ending up back in jail.
TC
Some call me...Tim
How would you prevent this from happening? Why are you so sure
it will happen?
--
"When Robert Kennedy ran for president, we supported him. We're
proud of it. And if he had lived and been elected, we wouldn't
have had all these problems over all these years."
--Bill Clinton
Some call me...Tim
> Julian and I are betting
> the newly "innocent" used-to-be confessed but now we didn't
> do anything rapists
Perhaps you should read this article on confessions.
http://truth.boisestate.edu/jcaawp/9901/9901.pdf
--
"When Robert Kennedy ran for president, we supported him. We're
proud of it. And if he had lived and been elected, we wouldn't
have had all these problems over all these years."
--Bill Clinton
topcat
Some call me...Tim wrote:
>
> How would you prevent this from happening?
There is no prevention. Some people are just evil, irresponsible or both.
The only solution is long term incarceration.
Why are you so sure
> it will happen?
>
Because I live in the NYC area and I see this type of nonsense go on all the
time. I know what parts of what towns I'm "allowed" into at night, if I
don't want to get mugged, that is. Liberals who like to talk the talk about
how to solve the problems of crime and drugs, etc. need to walk the walk
once in a while and take a drive through parts of Newark, NJ after dark.
Let's see how many people you can find who are going to respond to the
liberal treatment programs and endless handouts.
TC
topcat
Some call me...Tim wrote:
>
> Perhaps you should read this article on confessions.
> http://truth.boisestate.edu/jcaawp/9901/9901.pdf
>
I didn't read it (yet, I'm not sure I will) but I'll bet its the same
mumbo-jumbo about coerced confessions and how half the people in jail really
didn't do the crime. Right?
Like I said in the other post, go out into the city streets at night
sometime and let me know if you see any people you think might be prone to
committing crimes.
TC
Some call me...Tim
> I didn't read it (yet, I'm not sure I will) but I'll bet
Maybe you should read it rather than simply guessing about it.
> its the same mumbo-jumbo about coerced confessions and how
> half the people in jail really didn't do the crime. Right?
It's an academic paper about why false confessions happen.
> Like I said in the other post, go out into the city streets
> at night sometime and let me know if you see any people you
> think might be prone to committing crimes.
What do these people look like?
I once lived where the DC neighborhoods of Kalorama Heights and
Adams Morgan met. Nearly every night I walked between Foggy
Bottom and there. I'm probably more familiar with city streets
that you are. I saw junkies. I imagine they were more prone to
commit crimes although they never bothered me except to
panhandle. Should I have shot them or something?
topcat
Some call me...Tim wrote:
> > I didn't read it (yet, I'm not sure I will) but I'll bet
>
> Maybe you should read it rather than simply guessing about it.
>
Okay, I'll get the highlights.
> > its the same mumbo-jumbo about coerced confessions and how
> > half the people in jail really didn't do the crime. Right?
>
> It's an academic paper about why false confessions happen.
See I was right.
>
> What do these people look like?
>
They look like criminals.
> I once lived where the DC neighborhoods of Kalorama Heights and
> Adams Morgan met. Nearly every night I walked between Foggy
> Bottom and there. I'm probably more familiar with city streets
> that you are.
HAHAHAHAHA. This always makes me laugh when people say this to me, because I
grew up my entire life in the inner city. I've been chased home from school
by gangs, I couldn't go into the bathroom in my high school without five
friends with me because there was always a chance you'd be jumped and
robbed. I lived through "beat up white boy" day in junior high, that's when
the blacks would gang up and beat up white guys on the way home just
because. I'm an expert on "the streets" and not because I want to be. That's
why I can tell you there is a lot of crime because you have babies having
babies. You have kids raising themselves. You have people being brought up
with no morals and no responsibility. Don't ask me for solutions. I'm just
happy I was able to work my way out of that situation.
I saw junkies. I imagine they were more prone to
> commit crimes although they never bothered me except to
> panhandle. Should I have shot them or something?
>
Last time I looked junkies buy drugs, which is illegal. So is selling it to
them. I suggest you report them to the police. See how much good that will
do.
TC
ROBW
crimes.
Same in the 'burbs."
You think drugs aren't being dealt where you live?
Can you say there has been no instances of domestic violence, sexual
assault, murder?
The only difference between the city and the suburbs is better lawyers.
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"topcat" <top...@aboy.com> wrote in message
news:atfrb3$82e$1...@news.monmouth.com...
ROBW
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"topcat" <top...@aboy.com> wrote in message
news:atfvbs$aan$1...@news.monmouth.com...
Steven Litvintchouk
"Some call me...Tim" wrote:
>
> "topcat" <top...@aboy.com> posted:
>
> >
> > Some call me...Tim wrote:
> >>
> >> What's your point? Are you advocating some kind of
> >> preventive detention?
> >>
> > My point is that career criminals are just that. Because
> > for some people there is no such thing as rehabilitation we
> > (society) have to deal with the miscreants preying on us
> > time and time again until generally they really screw up
> > and end up in the pokey (an apt name for jail given what
> > goes on there, don't you think?) for a good amount of time.
> > Julian and I are betting the newly "innocent" used-to-be
> > confessed but now we didn't do anything rapists have good
> > odds of ending up back in jail.
>
> How would you prevent this from happening? Why are you so sure
> it will happen?
Criminologists have done studies on the efficacy of various
rehabilitation programs.
Some types of criminals, such as child molesters, are virtually
impossible to rehabilitate. Even with psychotherapeutic drugs. For
them, the only real cure is castration--physical or chemical (drug).
Heroin addicts, even after they have been "cured," tend to relapse. It
appears that the heroin has permanently altered brain chemistry so that
the craving for the heroin can return long after you think you've kicked
the habit.
The best rehabilitation, is TIME. Most street criminals are young. If
you put one in jail for 30 years, he'll get out when he's 50 or 60.
After arthritis sets in, the mugger had better find another line of
work.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdli...@earthlink.net
Some call me...Tim
I understand recidivism rates. I'm just wondering why Topcat is
so anxious to go after these young people who by all appearances
were victims of the system. Why does he call them career
criminals? Have they been convicted of other crimes since their
releases?
topcat
ROBW asked:
> Where did you grow up?
Orange, Irvington and Elizabeth, New Jersey. Do a little research on the
crime rates in those towns. Although I will say Elizabeth is a step up from
the other two.
TC
topcat
ROBW wrote:
> Of course there are people in the city who have the potential to commit
> crimes.
>
> Same in the 'burbs."
> You think drugs aren't being dealt where you live?
> Can you say there has been no instances of domestic violence, sexual
> assault, murder?
>
> The only difference between the city and the suburbs is better lawyers.
>
This strikes me as typical liberal excuse making from someone who likes to
talk the talk but has never walked the walk. I'll take where I live now,
thank you. I don't get beat up where I am now for WWW (walking while white).
TC
RHJunior
> you put one in jail for 30 years, he'll get out when he's 50 or 60.
> After arthritis sets in, the mugger had better find another line of
> work.
Wellll, I have to state that simply stuffing a criminal in a box for a given
number of years is inevitably cost-ineffective. A more practical and
effective system would be to make a criminal pay the full price of their
crime immediately...
In certain ancient cultures, if a man stole, he wasn't locked up. Instead,
he was required to reimburse the person he robbed *four times the value of
the thing he stole.* If he stole an apple, he paid back four apples' worth
*to the person he robbed.*
Rapists and murderers both paid, and paid instantly, with their lives.
If a thief was killed in the act of committing a crime, his life was
forfeit, and no penalty was enacted for it.
At least two witnesses were required for conviction....
Other provisions were made to prevent false accusation after the fact, to
provide for accidental homicide, and other niceties of the law we tend to
think only "modern" man would devise.
The modern concept of the Penitentiary is a relatively new one: the term, in
fact, refers to a Quaker concept of prison-- as a place for "penitence,"
where the criminal theoretically mulled over the consequences of his crimes.
Its effectiveness as a concept is self-evident, in the rising rate of
recidivism....
John M Price PhD
:> The best rehabilitation, is TIME. Most street criminals are young. If
Got data for that?
Something from the DoJ site would be nice.
--
John M. Price, PhD jmp...@calweb.com
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
The crowning glory of Christianity is, that it is the only major religion
requiring absolutely no prerequisites such as intelligence, linguistic
polish, or philosophical depth.
- Pastor Frank on alt.atheism
John M Price PhD
: "Some call me...Tim" wrote:
:>
:> "topcat" <top...@aboy.com> posted:
:>
:> >
:> > Some call me...Tim wrote:
:> >>
:> >> What's your point? Are you advocating some kind of
:> >> preventive detention?
:> >>
:> > My point is that career criminals are just that. Because
:> > for some people there is no such thing as rehabilitation we
:> > (society) have to deal with the miscreants preying on us
:> > time and time again until generally they really screw up
:> > and end up in the pokey (an apt name for jail given what
:> > goes on there, don't you think?) for a good amount of time.
:> > Julian and I are betting the newly "innocent" used-to-be
:> > confessed but now we didn't do anything rapists have good
:> > odds of ending up back in jail.
:>
:> How would you prevent this from happening? Why are you so sure
:> it will happen?
: Criminologists have done studies on the efficacy of various
: rehabilitation programs.
: Some types of criminals, such as child molesters, are virtually
: impossible to rehabilitate.
Well, thanks for pointing out that you haven't really read the
research. Some of this is on the web, and I direct you to the Canadian
stuff as they seem more 'free' top really explore the issue.
You will need to know a tiny bit of stat, as I recall one site where they
said the child molesters were more frequent in recidivism than rapists,
and the means were correct, however there was this little NS next to that
comparison, indicating the statement was political and not scientific.
--
John M. Price, PhD jmp...@calweb.com
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
The real danger is the gradual erosion of individual liberties through the
automation, integration, and interconnection of many small, seperate
record-keeping systems, each of which alone may seem innocuous, even
benevolent, and wholly justifiable.
- US Privacy Protection Study Commission, 1977
ROBW
But many of the statements you made (which I see you convenienlty snipped)
were moronic. How welcome would a black be in some of your upper class white
neighbourhoods up there in North Jersey?
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"topcat" <top...@aboy.com> wrote in message
news:atibfl$s9r$1...@news.monmouth.com...
ROBW
Any drug dealing going on where you live?
Anybody smacking their wife around?
No murders at all?
And I've lived in west Philly, so I can assure you I've "walked the walk."
I live in center city now (which if you believe another idiot poster on this
ng, means that I live in a worse part of town) and we think nothing of
walking eight to ten blocks for a night of entertainment,foodshopping and
dinner through white,black, and asian neighbourhoods.
But back to your "new home."
You gonna tell me a kid down the block who gets busted selling "E" at a
party won't have better legal representation than an urban kid in the same
situation?
And I'll tell you one more thing, when I did live in west Philly, I might
not have been invited to every party, but I was respected as a member of the
neighbourhood.
If you were getting brat up for being white, you might have wanted to take
"street smarts 101" over.
It sound like you are just where you belong.
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"topcat" <top...@aboy.com> wrote in message
news:atibkk$sa4$1...@news.monmouth.com...
topcat
ROBW wrote:
> I live in Philly, I know those towns.
> But many of the statements you made (which I see you convenienlty snipped)
> were moronic. How welcome would a black be in some of your upper class
white
> neighbourhoods up there in North Jersey?
>
I don't conveniently snip anything. My stupid f'in ISP won't let me post a
message that is too big. Something about space considerations.
If you don't want to believe my statements that's up to you, but to call
them moronic is moronic. This stuff happened and still happens only now it's
worse, you have to worry about getting shot in school. That's why I send my
daughter to private school.
Keep trying to spin it like there is no reverse racism. I have black people
walk down my street all the time, nobody bothers them. While my neighborhood
now is primarily white, there are some black families and nobody bothers
them.
Now let's you and I go walk through Irvington and see what happens?
TC
topcat
ROBW wrote:
> Ah, you feel safer, but you never answered the question.
> Any drug dealing going on where you live?
What has this got to do with you not wanting to admit there is a lot of
reverse racism in the inner city?
> Anybody smacking their wife around?
> No murders at all?
What has this got to do with you not wanting to admit there is a lot of
reverse racism in the inner city?
>
> And I've lived in west Philly, so I can assure you I've "walked the walk."
> I live in center city now (which if you believe another idiot poster on
this
> ng, means that I live in a worse part of town) and we think nothing of
> walking eight to ten blocks for a night of entertainment,foodshopping and
> dinner through white,black, and asian neighbourhoods.
>
Oh, now you're my hero!
> But back to your "new home."
> You gonna tell me a kid down the block who gets busted selling "E" at a
> party won't have better legal representation than an urban kid in the same
> situation?
What has this got to do with you not wanting to admit there is a lot of
reverse racism in the inner city?
>
> And I'll tell you one more thing, when I did live in west Philly, I might
> not have been invited to every party, but I was respected as a member of
the
> neighbourhood.
>
> If you were getting brat up for being white, you might have wanted to take
> "street smarts 101" over.
>
> It sound like you are just where you belong.
>
This is what you liberals do. You try to justify one groups bad behavior by
pointing out supposed similar things in another group. Here are the facts.
There are a lot of good people in the inner city and those people would love
to move out themselves. But there are also a lot of losers who like to
steal, get drunk, do drugs and have an inherent hatred of whites. You don't
want to believe it, that's on you.
TC
Eric da Red
>
>Some call me...Tim wrote:
>
>> How would you prevent this from happening?
>
>There is no prevention. Some people are just evil, irresponsible or both.
>The only solution is long term incarceration.
The USA has a greater percentage of its population incarcerated than
any other democratic nation, and more than most non-democratic
nations.
So, what are you complaining about? You should be sleeping very
soundly.
--
URL Of The Week:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/burning_bush/files/Vidal.doc
topcat
Eric da Red wrote:
>
> The USA has a greater percentage of its population incarcerated than
> any other democratic nation, and more than most non-democratic
> nations.
>
> So, what are you complaining about? You should be sleeping very
> soundly.
>
I'm complaining because as long as there are criminals walking the streets
and getting paroled to commit more crimes, the percentage in jail has
nothing to do with it.
TC
topcat
ROBW wrote:
>
> It sound like you are just where you belong.
>
Too bad this poor girl isn't right where she belongs...
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/64735.htm
'HOOKY' MOM: I'D DO JAIL
By CARL CAMPANILE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
UNEXCUSED ABSENCE:
Alexandra Hidalgo, 14, studies at home because her mom won't send her to
Lafayette HS in Brooklyn, which the schools chancellor calls child abuse.
A defiant Brooklyn mom has kept her 14-year-old daughter out of her high
school the entire year because she considers it too dangerous - and she's
willing to go to jail over the matter.
Alexandra Hidalgo was expected to register as a freshman at troubled
Lafayette HS in September, her zoned school.
But her mother, Catherine Hidalgo, refused to send her there after
personally observing fights in the hallway during registration and hearing
about numerous reports of violence there.
When she couldn't get an appropriate transfer to another school, she
boycotted Lafayette and kept Alexandra home.
Alexandra has not been in school for six months. She's missed the first 31/2
months of her freshman year - and no one has noticed.
Informed about the missing schoolgirl, Chancellor Joel Klein's office said
they would immediately file a child-abuse complaint against the parents with
the city's Administration for Children's Services.
Hidalgo admitted she's exposed herself to charges of educational neglect.
But she said her first priority is to make sure her daughter is safe.
"I'd rather go to jail than have Alexandra go to Lafayette," said Hidalgo, a
working mom. "I'll make my case before a judge."
"I went to Lafayette to see for myself. Two 6-foot male students were
fighting. I was scared there, and I'm not scared of anything."
Hidalgo said she didn't think it would be difficult to get a transfer to
nearby New Utrecht HS, which is actually closer to her Bensonhurst home. But
after several visits to high-school placement offices in Brooklyn and
Manhattan, her request went nowhere.
Alexandra, a petite teen, graduated from IS 201 in June.
"I hate being home," Alexandra said. "But I never want to go to Lafayette. I
could get raped or killed."
While other kids are in school preparing for Regents exams to earn a
diploma, Alexandra spends her day reading books and the encyclopedia,
watching the Regis Philbin and Maury Povich shows, cleaning the house and
picking up her younger sister and brother, Samantha, 10, and Joseph, 7, from
PS 163.
She pulled out a three-page report she wrote about Thomas Jefferson and
writes current-events summaries from stories in the newspaper.
"I like to read about ancient civilizations, particularly Egypt, and Greek
and Roman mythology," Alexandra said.
Under a new federal law, students could request transfers out of unsafe
schools. But the state has yet to define what constitutes "dangerous."
---end
Wonder what she's afraid of Rob?
TC
Eric da Red
Since criminals will always be "walking the streets" with or without
parole, what would you like to do about it?
Life sentences for every crime, no matter how petty?
Clave
news:atlhdg$r39$1...@drizzle.com...
> In article <atl1aq$n31$1...@news.monmouth.com>, topcat <top...@aboy.com> wrote:
> >
> >Eric da Red wrote:
> >>
> >> The USA has a greater percentage of its population incarcerated than
> >> any other democratic nation, and more than most non-democratic
> >> nations.
> >>
> >> So, what are you complaining about? You should be sleeping very
> >> soundly.
> >
> >I'm complaining because as long as there are criminals walking the streets
> >and getting paroled to commit more crimes, the percentage in jail has
> >nothing to do with it.
>
> Since criminals will always be "walking the streets" with or without
> parole, what would you like to do about it?
>
> Life sentences for every crime, no matter how petty?
Organ harvesting for jaywalkers!
Jim
topcat
Eric da Red wrote:
>
> Since criminals will always be "walking the streets" with or without
> parole, what would you like to do about it?
It's funny how you liberals always ask us conservatives what *we* would do
about issues. It's as though you guys just say "Oh what the hell, there is
no solution so let's just let the criminals out". Ridiculous.
>
> Life sentences for every crime, no matter how petty?
>
No, but real punishment for violent offenders and life sentences for repeat
violent offenders would be a start. Violent offenders should have to do
their entire sentence with no possibility of parole. They should have to do
forced labor like in the old days. The three strikes and you're in law is
good but it should be two strikes.
I'd rather my tax money go towards building more jails than to welfare
recipients.
TC
Eric da Red
>
>Eric da Red wrote:
>>
>> Since criminals will always be "walking the streets" with or without
>> parole, what would you like to do about it?
>
>It's funny how you liberals always ask us conservatives what *we* would do
>about issues.
I only ask because you're the one whining about it.
>It's as though you guys just say "Oh what the hell, there is
>no solution so let's just let the criminals out". Ridiculous.
Not as ridiculous as your weird opinions about liberals' beliefs.
>> Life sentences for every crime, no matter how petty?
>>
>No, but real punishment for violent offenders and life sentences for repeat
>violent offenders would be a start.
Jail constitutes real punishment.
>Violent offenders should have to do
>their entire sentence with no possibility of parole.
One of the reasons parole exists is to help manage
inmates by giving them some incentive to behave well. Wardens and
prison guards generally like the idea, even if they don't like its
application in particular cases.
What exactly is the benefit of giving someone a sentence of, say,
8-15 years with possibility of parole in 5 years instead of giving
the perp a 5 year sentence with no parole?
And why do you restrict your lust for retribution to violent
offenders?
>They should have to do
>forced labor like in the old days.
Other than satisfy your revenge fantasies, why?
>The three strikes and you're in law is
>good but it should be two strikes.
The problems with the three-strikes law are numerous. I don't feel
any safer knowing that serial check-kiters are behind bars for the
rest of their lives.
>I'd rather my tax money go towards building more jails than to welfare
>recipients.
Welfare is cheaper, and has much more positive social effects.
You can advocate expensive big-government programs if you want,
though.
Eric da Red
I've been known to drive in excess of the speed limit from time to
time. Guess I'll wake up in an icy hotel bathtub any day now.
Eric,
might put a picture of my kidneys on milk cartons.
topcat
Eric da Red wrote:
> >
> >It's funny how you liberals always ask us conservatives what *we* would
do
> >about issues.
>
> I only ask because you're the one whining about it.
>
I know, liberals discuss, conservatives whine.
>
> Not as ridiculous as your weird opinions about liberals' beliefs.
>
There are plenty of them around. Check a few of the threads.
>
> Jail constitutes real punishment.
>
It doesn't constitute future deterence.
>
> >Violent offenders should have to do
> >their entire sentence with no possibility of parole.
>
> One of the reasons parole exists is to help manage
> inmates by giving them some incentive to behave well. Wardens and
> prison guards generally like the idea, even if they don't like its
> application in particular cases.
Yeah right. The reason it exists is due to jail overcrowding.
>
> What exactly is the benefit of giving someone a sentence of, say,
> 8-15 years with possibility of parole in 5 years instead of giving
> the perp a 5 year sentence with no parole?
I say give them the 15 year sentence and be done with it.
>
> And why do you restrict your lust for retribution to violent
> offenders?
>
Uh...because those are the ones actually hurting others?
>
> >They should have to do
> >forced labor like in the old days.
>
> Other than satisfy your revenge fantasies, why?
>
It's called deterence. You have to make jail a place nobody wants to go back
to under any circumstances.
>
> >The three strikes and you're in law is
> >good but it should be two strikes.
>
> The problems with the three-strikes law are numerous. I don't feel
> any safer knowing that serial check-kiters are behind bars for the
> rest of their lives.
>
But I feel a lot safer knowing someone who has committed multiple violent
crimes is behind bars for the rest of their life.
>
> Welfare is cheaper, and has much more positive social effects.
More of those great liberal beliefs.
>
> You can advocate expensive big-government programs if you want,
> though.
>
I'm advocating spending money on something that might actually help innocent
people not get assaulted.
TC
ROBW
Your exscuse is bollocks.
You never lived in the "inner city"of those places you mentioned.
What happened, you get your wallet stolen by kids in Hoboken?
Moron.
And if you did live in the trenches of those places, what brought about the
change that you could live in such up-scale areas.
Please regale us.
You hit the lottery or invent the "pet rock"???
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"topcat" <top...@aboy.com> wrote in message
news:atks79$k2e$1...@news.monmouth.com...
ROBW
This is gonna be such fun.............
First off, you dodged every question I asked you with "What has this got to
do with not wanting to admit that there is reverse racism"? which wasn't
what I was responding to, but we can';t acces that because you "snipped" it.
Why? No balls?
So let's play your game..........
I justified no one's "bad behaviuor" but I noticed you had no defense when I
asked if things that happen in the "hood" (I'll use the term you know from
Jerry Springer since this is obviuosly the closest you're ever gotten to it)
happen in the "burbs, you danced and dodged.
You're right, there are a lot of losers who like to steal, get drunk, get
drunk, do drugs and have an inherent hatred of whites.
The only difference is, in the city these people are black.
In your neighbourhood, they are your kids.
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"topcat" <top...@aboy.com> wrote in message
news:atkskc$k8b$1...@news.monmouth.com...
ROBW
place in the afflluent Fox Chase area of Philly some years ago?
The kid was beaten to death by baseball bats.
Same thing, different mojo.
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"topcat" <top...@aboy.com> wrote in message
news:atl36e$oe9$1...@news.monmouth.com...
topcat
> My response to you wasn't that long at all.
If you're not going to believe anything I say there is no sense continuing
the conversation.
> Your exscuse is bollocks.
>
It pisses people off that I have to do it, but there is nothing I can do
about it. Maybe I'll pay to post on a better news server.
> You never lived in the "inner city"of those places you mentioned.
Maple Ave. in Irvington
McChesney Street in Orange
Laura St. in Elizabeth
Look them up
Graduated from Elizabeth High School.
It's you liberals that are the liars, not me.
>
> What happened, you get your wallet stolen by kids in Hoboken?
>
> Moron.
This proves your a liar and have no clue about the inner city. When are we
going to Irvington, tough guy?
>
> And if you did live in the trenches of those places, what brought about
the
> change that you could live in such up-scale areas.
> Please regale us.
> You hit the lottery or invent the "pet rock"???
>
I went to school and made something of myself, that's why I have no
tolerance for liberals who tell me it can't be done.
TC
topcat
ROBW wrote:
> Ow wow, what a f-ing moron.
> This is gonna be such fun.............
Now I know why everyone thinks you're an idiot.
>
> First off, you dodged every question I asked you with "What has this got
to
> do with not wanting to admit that there is reverse racism"? which wasn't
> what I was responding to, but we can';t acces that because you "snipped"
it.
> Why? No balls?
I told you why I snipped it, dummy.
You're questions aren't related to what's going on in the inner city. Don't
twist the argument back to the suburbs. That has nothing to do with the
reverse racism in the inner city.
>
> So let's play your game..........
>
> I justified no one's "bad behaviuor" but I noticed you had no defense when
I
> asked if things that happen in the "hood" (I'll use the term you know from
> Jerry Springer since this is obviuosly the closest you're ever gotten to
it)
> happen in the "burbs, you danced and dodged.
>
> You're right, there are a lot of losers who like to steal, get drunk, get
> drunk, do drugs and have an inherent hatred of whites.
That's all I'm sayin' yo!
>
> The only difference is, in the city these people are black.
> In your neighbourhood, they are your kids.
>
Try to justify it this way. I don't see any decent people wanting to stay in
the inner cities because of the problems in the 'burbs.
TC
Lone Haranguer
Cowardly Objector during the Vietnam War, sells ties for a living,
shacked up because he's afraid of being betrayed and so insecure he's
afraid to have children.
A bigger loser you won't find on Usenet.
And don't believe his "But I'm not a Democrat" line. He was until Gore
conceded and then he called himself a green.
LZ
topcat
> You are wasting your time with Robwimp. He's the ultimate coward. A
> Cowardly Objector during the Vietnam War, sells ties for a living,
> shacked up because he's afraid of being betrayed and so insecure he's
> afraid to have children.
>
> A bigger loser you won't find on Usenet.
>
> And don't believe his "But I'm not a Democrat" line. He was until Gore
> conceded and then he called himself a green.
> LZ
>
Thanks for the tip, I think I'm going to take it.
TC
Julian D.
Seems like Rob has never heard the phrase 'white flight'.
Most large cities have it.
Happy Christ's Birthday!
JD
"100% of the successful terrorist attacks on
commercial airlines for 20 years have been committed
by Arabs. When there is a 100% chance, it ceases to
be a profile. It's called a 'description of the
suspect.'" - Ann Coulter
"Ah yes, we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction
because otherwise .. they might get mad and seek our destruction."
- Ann Coulter 9/26/2002
'Conservatives believe IN America, liberals believe in and worry about
what other countries SAY about America.'
-Me
'All I really need to know about Islam, I learned on September 11.'
-Me
Eric da Red
>
>Eric da Red wrote:
>> >
>> >It's funny how you liberals always ask us conservatives what *we* would
>do
>> >about issues.
>>
>> I only ask because you're the one whining about it.
>
>I know, liberals discuss, conservatives whine.
I make no such generalization.
>> Not as ridiculous as your weird opinions about liberals' beliefs.
>
>There are plenty of them around. Check a few of the threads.
>
>> Jail constitutes real punishment.
>
>It doesn't constitute future deterence.
That may or may not be true. How do you know?
If it doesn't, then we are left again with no options other than
life imprisonment for nearly every crime, or mass executions.
>> >Violent offenders should have to do
>> >their entire sentence with no possibility of parole.
>>
>> One of the reasons parole exists is to help manage
>> inmates by giving them some incentive to behave well. Wardens and
>> prison guards generally like the idea, even if they don't like its
>> application in particular cases.
>
>Yeah right. The reason it exists is due to jail overcrowding.
That's why I used the phrase "one of the reasons."
Parole existed even before the current situation of overcrowded
jails, however.
>> What exactly is the benefit of giving someone a sentence of, say,
>> 8-15 years with possibility of parole in 5 years instead of giving
>> the perp a 5 year sentence with no parole?
>
>I say give them the 15 year sentence and be done with it.
Why? According to you, jail does not offer future deterrence, so a
potential perp is not going to be any more intimidated by the
prospect of a 15 year sentence than by a 5 year sentence, or a 5 day
sentence, or a 500 year sentence.
If you can demonstrate that the recidivism rate for large classes of
offenders is higher after a 5 year sentence than a 15 year sentence,
your basic approach to the subject will have some merit.
>> And why do you restrict your lust for retribution to violent
>> offenders?
>
>Uh...because those are the ones actually hurting others?
Who is the cause of more hurt: a drug-addled kid who steals a
purse, or a stock swindler who destroys the retirement plans of
thousands of people?
>> >They should have to do
>> >forced labor like in the old days.
>>
>> Other than satisfy your revenge fantasies, why?
>
>It's called deterence.
That's not what you said above.
>You have to make jail a place nobody wants to go back
>to under any circumstances.
It already is, except for a very small number of truly pathetic
people. That's one reason why accused people usually plead
innocent, and try to plea-bargain their sentences to the lowest
possible duration.
>> >The three strikes and you're in law is
>> >good but it should be two strikes.
>>
>> The problems with the three-strikes law are numerous. I don't feel
>> any safer knowing that serial check-kiters are behind bars for the
>> rest of their lives.
>
>But I feel a lot safer knowing someone who has committed multiple violent
>crimes is behind bars for the rest of their life.
How many of these people have been snagged by the 3-strikes laws who
wouldn't have been incarcerated long-term (or forever) without it?
Compare this number to the number of petty offenders who are in jail
for life due to 3-strikes laws.
>> Welfare is cheaper, and has much more positive social effects.
>
>More of those great liberal beliefs.
It's also true.
>> You can advocate expensive big-government programs if you want,
>> though.
>
>I'm advocating spending money on something that might actually help innocent
>people not get assaulted.
It doesn't seem to be working especially well so far.
Harry
> Media Support Citizenship Awards For Central Park Rapists
>
> The BRILLIANT Ann Coulter - December 4, 2002
>
> HOPING FOR A different result, journalists are re-litigating the Central
> Park rape case in their pages, skipping the fuss and bother of the adversary
> process. The New York Times recently announced that "so far," there is
> "almost nothing to back the original findings of guilt." That's if you don't
> count 10 videotaped confessions and five guilty verdicts rendered by two
> duly constituted juries.
So much for the brilliant Ms Coulter, last heard on national TV
lamenting the fact that "Democratic men are are girly boys".
A more thoughtful conclusion might be...Just how did police get five
(false) confessions? And the value of jury trial when the press and
police have already made up their mind. In this case, made up their
mind to find a black offender.
ROBW
We love the city.
I guess you just have to be cut out for it.
Of course, the "flight" in Philly has as much to do with things like the
wage tax, ridiculous insurance rates and rents as much as any racial
problems.
And you still haven't answered my questions.
No drugs or crime in the burbs????
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"Julian D." <ju...@ersatz.com> wrote in message
news:eactvu890bupsropa...@4ax.com...
Peter Kauffner
> What about NONE of the the convicted's DNA not being found IN the victim?
> Can you explain that?
The juries knew this back in 1989 and convicted the defendants anyway.
The logic was, they all participated in the attack, so they are all
guilty of rape. The only new evidence that that has come out since
then is that the semen on the victim has been linked to Reyes. This
shows only that Reyes also raped the jogger, not that the 1989
defendants are innocent.
Julian D.
wrote:
>Philly does, too.
>
>We love the city.
>I guess you just have to be cut out for it.
>
>Of course, the "flight" in Philly has as much to do with things like the
>wage tax, ridiculous insurance rates and rents as much as any racial
>problems.
>
>And you still haven't answered my questions.
>
>No drugs or crime in the burbs????
>
>
>robw
Crime and drugs are not as highly concentrated as it is in the cities.
I'm here in Allentown, with more than a few cops being relatives and
friends. Are you friends with city cops? Real good friends? They'll
clue you in. Cities are like honey to ants, the ants being the poor,
the deranged, and of course with them comes the criminal element. The
city is mother-teat to them, they flock to it so as to get their
welfare checks faster. A-town, Easton is being inundated with NYC and
New Jersey drug dealers.
Just look at the local crime section in your paper. As I said...talk
to cops. Surely they would know the inside scoop as to what causes
crime and 'flight' from the city.
Don't tell me a person isn't safer living in the suburbs.
JD
"100% of the successful terrorist attacks on
commercial airlines for 20 years have been committed
by Arabs. When there is a 100% chance, it ceases to
be a profile. It's called a 'description of the
suspect.'" - Ann Coulter
"Ah yes, we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction
because otherwise .. they might get mad and seek our destruction."
- Ann Coulter 9/26/2002
'All I really need to know about Islam, I learned on September 11.'
-Me
ROBW
Remeber the two amish kids that got busted for coke a few years back.
And you don't think Lehigh University has a little drug traffic gojng
around? Hell, I d.j.'ed a rave there where the stuff was all over.
And you've got "Al's Diamond Cabaret"
You know, that little byob all nude strip bar?
Ever go there?
I have, guys doing lines off the latrine tops.
Where's the stuff come from?
I never said it was safer to live in the city than the burbs, but don't hand
me this "crystaline " image.
And I am freindly with some city cops and a FBI drug agent.
They spend more time complaining about people from the jersey suburbs than
any fifty city dealers.
You have little idea what you're talking about.
robw
--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
"Julian D." <ju...@ersatz.com> wrote in message
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